Okay, i know that there are more posts like that but the servers are full of bots....
I go for xp and i see bots only... I dont know if this is happening to Luna only but..
Anyway NCSoft can easily make a simple update to avoid bots but they wont.
Post your opinions here.
Okay, i know that there are more posts like that but the servers are full of bots....
I go for xp and i see bots only... I dont know if this is happening to Luna only but..
Anyway NCSoft can easily make a simple update to avoid bots but they wont.
Post your opinions here.
Just to be clear, you're a greek player on Luna concerned about bots..............?
I'm going out on a limb to predict that you do not want my opinion on this one.
Negative rep to OP for a monumentally ignorant thread.
Okay, i know that there are more posts like that but the servers are full of bots....
I go for xp and i see bots only... I dont know if this is happening to Luna only but..
Anyway NCSoft can easily make a simple update to avoid bots but they wont.
Post your opinions here.
LOL management might get replace if net income goes down in this quarter!! LOL at least that how i think they are looking at. it just business imo but oh well it a terrible world out there.
-1 for yet another thread on the same topic... if you have something meaningful to add, please say it, if you just want to talk about the same thing that has been talked about over and over then go talk on another thread that's already been started... if you're looking for opinions... read past thread, more opinions than you could ever want
It is said already zillion times. NCSoft cannot afford to lose bots and botters because they give now at least 70% from their monthly income.
The only thing they do is to ban some bots ocasionally this forcing the botters to buy new retail games and to open new accounts.
And which is very important too - for good or for bad the bots are extremely important part of the server economics. There is some kind of balance now. Remove then and you will remove 90% from the basic mats and 90% from the adena. Besides the other things this will mean the latest players will have very slim chances to catch up with the established players in terms of the gear.
... Wouldn't banning all bots and taking away most base mats in the game mean that a legit players base mats are worth more?
Meaning they get richer? Meaning they essentially close the gap b/c the botters wont be there to supply for the more established players who bot (they will be banned also) and the ebayers wont have the supply to buy the mats to craft endless sets anymore?
In terms of actual liquid assets, yeah, the gap will still be there. It always will be, no fixing that, save for banning every un-legit who has ever played.. But the closest thing you can do to fixing the problem is take the supply away from these established players (the bots) and make the latest players worth more value, giving them a chance to maybe not climb as high as these "established" players but at least get themselves on the pedastal as a start.
And yes, I realise that the entire market will inflate like mad, but with bots gone it allows the new players a chance to farm mats for sale to these more established players and let them earn the money rather than it going back to bots.
To be honest, bots make the game bearable to a normal player.
As annoying as they are bots keep prices down on everything, they are the only reason there is an effective market. If the adena they generate, and the items they supply suddenly disappeared I really really doubt anybody would sell anything. I know I would keep every single item i have, I would run everywhere that wasn't free to port to. Only exp in massively overpowered parties to make sure I would never need to spend money on recovery scrolls
Well. truth is I wouldn't do any of that, I would cancel my accounts out of frustration.
I honestly believe the bots are vital to the survival of this game in EU/NA though. Unless there is a major rebalancing patch this game will need bots to survive.
And at the same time I hate them. I hate how they always clog the good leveling spots, how they make seeding pointless with the speed they turn them in. And most of all, how they are making money playing a game that I am paying to play
I've actually never agreed that completely eliminating bots from the game would make it unplayable.
I accept that this opinion is widely held.
Two points:
First, at some point the economy would adjust/react and stabilize. I'm not saying that would be pleasant or easy--just that I believe it would happen. The relatively low server census and this adjustment would probably mean base mats less available and maybe necessitate more mergers that happen more quickly than otherwise.
Second, bots sustain the HIGHER level players attempting to accomplish incredible things. "the clan all needs top S-grade gear...so...."
I think it would be most accurate to say that if bots were completely eliminated, it would make the game unplayable for the majority of players who cheated mercilessly to get to the top in the first place--because they have no interest in actually playing most of the game features.
If they had to grind/manor/market (which takes TIME) for adena--many, many of them would quit.
Again, the loss of that group would probably necessitate faster server merges.
The point that many say that "the market COULDN'T survive" without bots is not accurate. I think it would absolutely adjust and survive and be just fine. But the bot-PRODUCTS being absent (huge base mat #'s and fast adena) would probably cause the loss of massive #'s of subscribers. Frail, incompetent, and cheating subscribers--but paying customers all the same!
You guys are joking right? You do understand that the bots are the cause for the rapid inflation and the extremly high prices?
Mats will always be short in supply for legal players, and only much worse with the bots. They will always have to farm most of it themselves no matter the situation.
The more money the bots produce the higher the prices will get. Because the mats are in a fairly limited supply, especially the more rare ones.The manors for instance can only produce a limited number of mats each day no matter how many botters we have. The amount of money dropping from mobs on the other hand, is fairly unlimited.
This means that the bots will never produce enough mats to equal the amount of money they pump out. The more bots we have the worse the balance between mats supply and money supply will get.
If the bots suddenly stopped selling mats, equipment etc, they would also stop selling adena. There would be less items yes, but there would also soon be a lot less ebayed money to throw around. If the evil circle of botting came to a halt then people would just have to learn that you have to work for your gear instead of using your visa.
Probably a lot of the botters/ebayers would quit but who else but them cares? Better to have a rapid culling of botters than this slower but more certain death when the legal players are leaving. When there are no more legal players you can be sure the game will be dead.
Completely removing bots would make a dramatic shift to the economy, but yes it would eventually stabilize. How many people would get frustrated and quit in the process is something I never considered. I stand by the idea of a slow removal of bots, kinda in a pyramid strategy, removing small amounts to begin with and eventually removing them all. That way people could have a slow easy adjustment.
But on the other hand..... We don’t have as many Gm's as they used to, and in this economy keeping a stable income is even more important. So I excuse NCsoft for not all of a sudden cracking down on bots out of the blue. I don’t think it will ever happen in the extreme and I have come to terms with that. It’s something that for one reason or another they cannot do, be it simple man power or more complicated financial concerns within the company. As I have so far, I’ll tolerate bots in order to continue playing the game I so enjoy.
Bots are a problem that have riddled l2 for a long time now. Creating numerous new threads complaining about the problem or bumping old threads have so far thus proven to inadequate to motivate NCsoft to remove them all. Perhaps the community should take a new approach, hows about we completely stop complaining about bots, or at least complain less, and praise them more for their actions in removal. I love seeing people show how they got good service, and imp sure that NCsoft does too. Let’s try making them feel good about what they do and not bad about what they don’t :)
Some things you say is true, but I think what NCsoft should really consider is the bad publicity they get. This problem is on a much wider scale, and a more long term and serious loss than just the Lineage 2 franchise.
How many players will NCsoft lose forever to other game companies because of how they've handled bots? What L2 player that leaves the game in frustration is going to try Aion, when they know they'll be facing the same army of bots again?
Some botters may return to other NCsoft games, but a large amount of the player botters are just people that bot because they have to to stay in the competition. When time comes to choose another game again they won't pick another game that's likely to be the same bot ridden, doomed-to-die-because-of-bots-game. They don't want to be forced to bot again.
NCsoft is unavoidably making themselves a name as a bot friendly company, and once the stain is there it will be very hard to remove. Just who is going to want to play NCsoft mmos in the future? "For cheaters only"?
Anyway, enough venting. As you say, maybe it's time to start encouraging instead of complaining.
Yes, you are right coth. NCsoft is risking damage by allowing so much botting. I am unhappy with how botted Aion is. I intend on trying it when it launches, and I hope to see them take botting seriously on this side of the ocean.
To be honest, bots make the game bearable to a normal player.
Bots make the game bearable to a "pwnz0r". A normal player does not need bots, a normal player needs a good clan.
As annoying as they are bots keep prices down on everything,
They don't. Actually, bots keep price up on everything.
they are the only reason there is an effective market. If the adena they generate, and the items they supply suddenly disappeared I really really doubt anybody would sell anything.
The market will be different, that's for sure. There will be no more "screw the ebayer" attitude in most Giran sellshops.
I know I would keep every single item i have, I would run everywhere that wasn't free to port to. Only exp in massively overpowered parties to make sure I would never need to spend money on recovery scrolls
I wouldn't change my levelling habits (yes, I will still burn lots of spirit ore, as adena drops pay for them anyway).
I would cancel my accounts out of frustration.
I wouldn't.
Okay, i know that there are more posts like that but the servers are full of bots....
I go for xp and i see bots only... I dont know if this is happening to Luna only but..
Anyway NCSoft can easily make a simple update to avoid bots but they wont.
Post your opinions here.
New to mmo's? Bots are nothing new, complaining about them is sooo 1997. Only difference between L2 (and even aion) and other mmo's is that the bots here are very blunt, dont bother hiding, and are in your face, and usually around for a long time before anything is done, or they move on to farm a new spot. Sorry for that run on sentance, made my english teacher roll in her grave. Stop kicking a dead horse and enbrace your automated players :)
They don't. Actually, bots keep price up on everything.
Everyone seems to just state facts about this, it's actually more complicated than they keep prices up or down. If bots disappeared tomorrow, prices would rise. Not just because of legitimate uncertainty about the changing marketplace, but because on a daily basis bots produce far more value in materials than they do in pure adena drops.
The problem comes because there's not a proper adena sink in the game, soul/spirit ore for shots just doesn't cover it, so over time the adena just continues to accumulate. On the other hand, many of the materials are effectively removed, all that B and to an extent A grade gear that used to be top end is now relatively worthless. Lots of armor gets blown to make +6 sets, lots of weapons blown up for OE, even more just crystallized for shots. Most importantly, people accumulate many sets of successively better and better gear, while they have no need to continue stashing pure adena.
In a sense, there is a sink for materials farmed by the bots, but not for the adena. Over the years the game has been around, this slowly causes inflation. So while the bots are responsible for some of the inflation (the game would have it without them as well, perhaps not as much), removing them would cause significantly more inflation in the short term.
Of course I want to see the bots gone as much as anyone else, especially when I can't find a half decent spot to hunt. It just bothers me when people on both sides drastically oversimplify their effect on the economy to support their point.
Everyone seems to just state facts about this, it's actually more complicated than they keep prices up or down. If bots disappeared tomorrow, prices would rise. Not just because of legitimate uncertainty about the changing marketplace, but because on a daily basis bots produce far more value in materials than they do in pure adena drops.
The live spoilers will be happy. The clans that make their wealth by hunting (as opposed to ebaying) will be happy too.
Live mat farmers are more effective adena sinks than botted ones, so the prices will eventually drop below their current values, after the adena buyers' money pool expires. Also, overenchanting will be less poplular, which will shift the market into more items enchanted for less.
AA prices will remain high, though (giving the lowbies a source of decent income while grinding for levels).
I think a lot of you are too optimistic about the economy re-stabilizing itself.
If the bots were to all disappear tomorrow the damage has already been done, there is a lot more adena ingame than there should be. The amount of time it will take to adena sink our way through all those billions of adena down to a level where the prices are justified by a players income would be massive, most likely more than a year. How many people do you think will sit through that? I think the ones who have what they need probably will, but anybody who's getting into A grade or S grade will probably just end up giving up, and as a result a lot more will stop because the game is rapidly dying.
The current situation with bots works, it's not pretty, but it works. And it keeps the game alive.
ps. if you try and check few bot sites, many many are crying that banhammer striked them.
And some locations got cleaned a bit, some cleaned beause ppl are afraid to bot. But a sudden banhammer was there.
Because of the bot/farmer problem being so big, NcSoft through each update has made it harder and harder to collect the materials needed to craft stuff. On the other hand they have made it easier and easier to lvl causing you to go through each lvl grade faster than before. Which means by the time you collect enough parts/mats to craft a full set of A grade armor/jewelry and a wep, lvl a crystal, collect the AA to unseal it and add SA to a wep it's time for S grade. I hate bots just a much as the next person but unfortunatly the economy is built on the availablity of the products provided by the farmers. If it goes away the game will die.
However if they were to tie it in with an update that dramaticaly increased the drop rate it might be ok. If the drop rate was to where you could reasonably expect to collect enough parts from hunting, enough mats from manoring and enough AA in 2-3 lvls of reaching each lvl grade the game might be able to survive without the farmers. Who really knows would all depend on supply and demand.
As it is now if all the bot/farmers and thier inventories disappeared those with A grade and above would pretty much be stuck where they are when it comes to gear. With the current drop rates and craft requirement there are not enough real players to supply the needs on any of the servers.
Bad thing is it's pretty much come down to play the game as it is now or move on to another. I know people hate to hear that and advance all kinds of good arguments about a L2 without the farmers. However after playing this game for 4 years I realise that is never going to happen. Wether you choose to believe it or not that up to you.
l2 is designed for long play.... not for "today i bought 82 archer from farmer, tomorrow ill buy 10b and boss jewels and i start pwnz ppl in A grade"
"l2 die without bots" = farmers propaganda
Do you even play the same game I do. It started out as long play but is much different now except the access to what you need has never changed. It has actually gotten worse.
Right now a drac bow needs about 45,000 pcs of different materials. Providing you need in average 2 sets of craft materials to get 1 bow this means you need 90,000 pcs of different materials for 1 bow. Some of the mats drop per every 3 killed mobs and some drop per every 300 killed mobs. So without bots you will need between 500,000 and 1,000,000 mobs to collect materials for a single drac bow. How many years you will need to kill 1,000,000 mobs?
Now lets talk about the spoilers. They can spoil mats at ratio 1:10 where you need ratio 1:300 from pure drops. The problem is they are strongly underpowered. For the above mentioned drac bow they will need to kill just 10,000 mobs instead of 1,000,000. But with their extremely low DPS they will take the same years to kill those mobs as for a DD or nuker to kill 1,000,000 mobs.
The decision is to bundle every spoiler with nuker/DD and recharger/buffer. Which means a group of 3 from which the recharger/buffer can be boxed. Just for try out one night my spoiler (middle A grade) hunted for 3 hours with a SH and boxed SE. The result - 3 extremely boring hours and 3500 varnish. And this seems the only solution if the bots really disappear.
Which as I already wrote will never happen because NCSoft depends too much on the bots for their monthly income.
Right now a drac bow needs about 45,000 pcs of different materials. Providing you need in average 2 sets of craft materials to get 1 bow this means you need 90,000 pcs of different materials for 1 bow. Some of the mats drop per every 3 killed mobs and some drop per every 300 killed mobs. So without bots you will need between 500,000 and 1,000,000 mobs to collect materials for a single drac bow. How many years you will need to kill 1,000,000 mobs?
Now lets talk about the spoilers. They can spoil mats at ratio 1:10 where you need ratio 1:300 from pure drops. The problem is they are strongly underpowered. For the above mentioned drac bow they will need to kill just 10,000 mobs instead of 1,000,000. But with their extremely low DPS they will take the same years to kill those mobs as for a DD or nuker to kill 1,000,000 mobs.
The decision is to bundle every spoiler with nuker/DD and recharger/buffer. Which means a group of 3 from which the recharger/buffer can be boxed. Just for try out one night my spoiler (middle A grade) hunted for 3 hours with a SH and boxed SE. The result - 3 extremely boring hours and 3500 varnish. And this seems the only solution if the bots really disappear.
Which as I already wrote will never happen because NCSoft depends too much on the bots for their monthly income.
Thanks that was a much better example that I gave.
1st the pwnzors-wannabees .... they bot levels, just to try to be someone ... they can't stand to be left behind, or just don't give a **** about the game ... they just think of themselfs and noone else... willing to pay huge sums of their parents creditcard to get there.
to accomplish this they need: LOTS and LOTS of adena and mats, and thats where the next comes in.
2nd the adena/mats-farmers .. strictly botting for real cash and nothing else, these bots are highly dependant of the 1st ones,
if the first ones didn't existed, this type of bot would conciderly be unneeded and therefore slowly fade out.
Unfortunately as there will always be lots of the 1st ones .... the 2nd ones will never go away
btw. S grade was SPECIAL.... long ago... now all ppl get S (or OE S) when hit 76..
If legit player pvp vs legit player they dont need drac +8 on both side... if both have Soul bows PVP is still fair.... but bots destroyed the market... to much OE items and ebayers.... legit archer cant win with archer of botter/ebayer... after he fail in PVP many times he buy adena and gear and circle is closed. :/
btw where is fun for 8x chars in killing legit a graders ??? oO
Because of the bot/farmer problem being so big, NcSoft through each update has made it harder and harder to collect the materials needed to craft stuff.
Nope. When NCsoft developers design the drop rates for their Korean grinder, they do not care about bot problems on such small peripherial markets as NA/Euro.
u spoil and exp in same time so ??? grinding is not exciting for non-dreads ^^
1. Technically, there is not much difference in who will leach from me in a Rift duo. It can (and happens) to be a spoiler as well.
2. In high B-grade (the area range of the base mat spoiler's heaven) Frozen Lab gives good spoil, good mat quest, not bad exp and some AoE fun.
This topic is kinda wrong...not servers but yes the server which here is luna. As far as i know, many other server got already many ebayers and bot bans. Even heros cryu in hero chat and talk about bans. The thing is, the servers will never get 100% rid of bots and ebayers, but they are taking much more care and banning much more than before. I can see it on the server i am playing.
Right now a drac bow needs about 45,000 pcs of different materials. Providing you need in average 2 sets of craft materials to get 1 bow this means you need 90,000 pcs of different materials for 1 bow. Some of the mats drop per every 3 killed mobs and some drop per every 300 killed mobs. So without bots you will need between 500,000 and 1,000,000 mobs to collect materials for a single drac bow. How many years you will need to kill 1,000,000 mobs?
Now lets talk about the spoilers. They can spoil mats at ratio 1:10 where you need ratio 1:300 from pure drops. The problem is they are strongly underpowered. For the above mentioned drac bow they will need to kill just 10,000 mobs instead of 1,000,000. But with their extremely low DPS they will take the same years to kill those mobs as for a DD or nuker to kill 1,000,000 mobs.
The decision is to bundle every spoiler with nuker/DD and recharger/buffer. Which means a group of 3 from which the recharger/buffer can be boxed. Just for try out one night my spoiler (middle A grade) hunted for 3 hours with a SH and boxed SE. The result - 3 extremely boring hours and 3500 varnish. And this seems the only solution if the bots really disappear.
Which as I already wrote will never happen because NCSoft depends too much on the bots for their monthly income.
I advice you to buy items on the market. Or better from your clan. If you have a clan, they help for sure each other. That is what makes a good clan. if you working alone, sure it is going to be a living hell and impossible to reach even A grade without being common.
Make alt chars is helful to. As long you lvl them, you will get mats..maybe not much but it helps. Anyways...it need always time..L2 is a hardcore game and not like wow we all know that. The problem is many players want A grade when they hit A grade and so on...things like that dont work...its hard work to get all that stuff. But sure..i agree..bots made this game a bit more unbalanced and unfair.
I advice you to buy items on the market. Or better from your clan. If you have a clan, they help for sure each other. That is what makes a good clan. if you working alone, sure it is going to be a living hell and impossible to reach even A grade without being common.
You obviosuly misreaded me. I just explained few things to those who said how happily they will gather materials without bots.
I think a lot of you are too optimistic about the economy re-stabilizing itself.
If the bots were to all disappear tomorrow the damage has already been done, there is a lot more adena ingame than there should be. The amount of time it will take to adena sink our way through all those billions of adena down to a level where the prices are justified by a players income would be massive, most likely more than a year.
You don't understand. The economics will change for ever. You won't see the same economics in a year, or in two, or in five, even when the prices drop back. You will need to make mat farming parties in order to be a strong clan.
Which would be a good thing. No more teenage pwnz0rs on the top of the servers.
How many people do you think will sit through that?
[Almost] all my allies will.
The current situation with bots works, it's not pretty, but it works. And it keeps the game alive.
The current situation works very bad for NCsoft. It deters new players from L2, but it's not the main problem. The main problem is that it makes people that "tasted" L2 unwilling to play other NCsoft games.
Right now a drac bow needs about 45,000 pcs of different materials. Providing you need in average 2 sets of craft materials to get 1 bow this means you need 90,000 pcs of different materials for 1 bow. Some of the mats drop per every 3 killed mobs and some drop per every 300 killed mobs. So without bots you will need between 500,000 and 1,000,000 mobs to collect materials for a single drac bow. How many years you will need to kill 1,000,000 mobs?
Now lets talk about the spoilers. They can spoil mats at ratio 1:10 where you need ratio 1:300 from pure drops. The problem is they are strongly underpowered. For the above mentioned drac bow they will need to kill just 10,000 mobs instead of 1,000,000. But with their extremely low DPS they will take the same years to kill those mobs as for a DD or nuker to kill 1,000,000 mobs.
The decision is to bundle every spoiler with nuker/DD and recharger/buffer. Which means a group of 3 from which the recharger/buffer can be boxed. Just for try out one night my spoiler (middle A grade) hunted for 3 hours with a SH and boxed SE. The result - 3 extremely boring hours and 3500 varnish. And this seems the only solution if the bots really disappear.
Which as I already wrote will never happen because NCSoft depends too much on the bots for their monthly income.
So very strange, are we playing the same game? It took me a couple of months, with the help of some friends, to gather enough materials to craft 2 drac bows (roughly 80k mats for 2 attemps, I failed the first one). And I'm a pretty casual player, I just had the brains to use the manor. Yes, it was some hard work, but very satisfying when I had my own non botted drac bow in my hands.
So very strange, are we playing the same game? It took me a couple of months, with the help of some friends, to gather enough materials to craft 2 drac bows (roughly 80k mats for 2 attemps, I failed the first one). And I'm a pretty casual player, I just had the brains to use the manor. Yes, it was some hard work, but very satisfying when I had my own non botted drac bow in my hands.
Whatever.
Oh, wait! This means you got from 0 to S grade for 2 months! OMG! And those friends of your too?
I guess we, the common players cannot keep the pace with such great players like you and your friends. That's why this difference appear.
I'm a casual player. I play maybe 2-3 hours every other weekday and maybe 10 hours on a weekend, including 3 for sieging every other weekend, and I've made 2 buffers (61 & 65) and a level 72 tank.
If I had actually levelled every time I played instead of messing with my warehouse, crafting, shopping or raiding, I could quite easilly have made 75 on all 3 toons.
Therefore I believe getting to level 76 could quite easily take little over 2 months if you only ever played one character and spend no time doing anything else but grinding, playing for no more than 20 hours a week.
Remember, most of us have gained our 6x - 8x toons without vitality. Vitality is still reasonably new for us long term players and a new, twinked toon, could quite easily go from 0-76 in no time at all (given they're in an active clan).
Whatever.
Oh, wait! This means you got from 0 to S grade for 2 months! OMG! And those friends of your too?
I guess we, the common players cannot keep the pace with such great players like you and your friends. That's why this difference appear.
Just spouting nonsense when your argument fails? I honestly don't understand what you're saying.
My main went from 76-77 in those months I farmed for the drac bows, and it's not like I used only that toon for farming.
You don't understand. The economics will change for ever. You won't see the same economics in a year, or in two, or in five, even when the prices drop back. You will need to make mat farming parties in order to be a strong clan.
Which would be a good thing. No more teenage pwnz0rs on the top of the servers.
I'm not following your logic at all. The teenagers with no jobs who dropped out of school will be the only players who can compete in this environment, if you don't play 12h a day you wont have a chance.
And on the subject of mat farming parties. When you make a party of 6, that's just 6 times as many mats you'll need. Do you honestly expect all you "allies" to make up parties to help you get materials for your crafts, and not get anything in return? You still end up with the same, you might get a LOT of mats in a night, but you'll be spending the next 5 farming for the other people, getting nothing for yourself.
And if it's done on a clan basis, what about the exploitative clan leaders? (you know they always get what they want before you will)
Some people need to wake up. The bots don't keep the game alive. They're killing it. Killing it for anyone that wants to stay legit, and play the game like it was meant to be played.
You're supposed to farm your own mats.You need to plan, you need your clan to help you; with spoiling, manoring etc. Half the game is gone when you instead choose to buy everything from the bots.
And if you complain that you need to buy, to get it fast to stay in the competition, then you have to ask yourself, is it worth competing with botters and cheaters? Wouldn't you be better off if they were banned? Or is it fun getting dropped again and again by super uber botted hero pwnz0rs with full s80 gear?
As a legit player you will never benefit from the bots staying in the game. It's a dream and you need to wake up: Bots help cheaters stay ahead, they don't help legits to catch up.
The people that want to keep the botters around have picked the wrong game. You go play CS or something. No time required to farm or craft there.
I'm not following your logic at all. The teenagers with no jobs who dropped out of school will be the only players who can compete in this environment,
Nope. They won't be able to concentrate on the subject, and they aren't social enough. They won't be able to compete against a solid clan of after-work players.
And on the subject of mat farming parties. When you make a party of 6, that's just 6 times as many mats you'll need. Do you honestly expect all you "allies" to make up parties to help you get materials for your crafts, and not get anything in return?
I honestly expect them to have the same quests. Base mats don't require such big parties these days anyway.
You still end up with the same, you might get a LOT of mats in a night, but you'll be spending the next 5 farming for the other people, getting nothing for yourself.
So what?
And if it's done on a clan basis, what about the exploitative clan leaders? (you know they always get what they want before you will)
You can always leave if you don't like your CLs. Find a better clan.
It is said already zillion times. NCSoft cannot afford to lose bots and botters because they give now at least 70% from their monthly income.
The only thing they do is to ban some bots ocasionally this forcing the botters to buy new retail games and to open new accounts.
And which is very important too - for good or for bad the bots are extremely important part of the server economics. There is some kind of balance now. Remove then and you will remove 90% from the basic mats and 90% from the adena. Besides the other things this will mean the latest players will have very slim chances to catch up with the established players in terms of the gear.
As for NCSoft not wanting to lose the botters business, Thats nothing more than an assumption, Only fact about the bots is that they simply have let it get out of hand.
As for the bots being an important part of the economie , BS, They never were nor are they now needed, They've done nothing more than simply destroy it, You only have to spend 5 min in Giran to see this.
As for new players having a chance to catch up, With the overly inflated prices, Number of botted toons along with the mentality that seems to come with them (don't have to watch Hero shout long to see this), This game at this point doesn't really seem that promising for a " LEGIT " new player .
Don't really care how you try and look at it, The bots (and NCSofts lack of action) are doing nothing more than destroying what was once a decent game.
Some people need to wake up. The bots don't keep the game alive. They're killing it. Killing it for anyone that wants to stay legit, and play the game like it was meant to be played.
You're supposed to farm your own mats.You need to plan, you need your clan to help you; with spoiling, manoring etc. Half the game is gone when you instead choose to buy everything from the bots.
Check the drop/spoilrates and the lvl of the mobs and think again.
And if you complain that you need to buy, to get it fast to stay in the competition, then you have to ask yourself, is it worth competing with botters and cheaters? Wouldn't you be better off if they were banned? Or is it fun getting dropped again and again by super uber botted hero pwnz0rs with full s80 gear?
Bad example since s80 is actually the only stuff that is mostly farmed by active players (wether they botted their toons or not is not in the equation)
As a legit player you will never benefit from the bots staying in the game. It's a dream and you need to wake up: Bots help cheaters stay ahead, they don't help legits to catch up.
The people that want to keep the botters around have picked the wrong game. You go play CS or something. No time required to farm or craft there.
Untrue. As a legit player you can and will always make the most befenit out of stupid ebayers, hence out of the bots selling money to the ebayers.
Just spouting nonsense when your argument fails? I honestly don't understand what you're saying.
My main went from 76-77 in those months I farmed for the drac bows, and it's not like I used only that toon for farming.
Great job boy. We all believe you. For 2 months you started with 0 adena and 0 mats and you collected 2 sets of mats for drac bow which includes:
1. 2 recipes
2. 930 SOP (you do know what SOP is, do you?)
3. 29740 bones
4. 10490 varnish
5. 160 mold lubricant
6. 160 mold hardener
7. 80 mold glue
8. 16330 thread
9. 8,600,000 AA
10. 34 drac shafts
11. 462 suede
12. 3850 Stem
13. 154 Enria
14. 15400 Iron
15. 2310 mithril
16. 428 S crystals
So as I told we all believe you - you started with 0 adena and with 0 mats and for 2 months collected all this. Of course who cares for such small details as how exactly you collected those 8,600,000 ancient adena for those two months at the same time collecting the other stuff...
If yuo are talking about the drac bow mats please tell me how much ancient adena you collected at all? Without botting and buying?
Without botting or buying? that means if you cant get it, nobody can do it which result all those who can are botters? If you play the game daily some hours, with friends or clan mates, its really not hard to make that AA in 1 week belive me. You dont need to bot as you say to succeed. But its true..some mats are hard to spoil so i just buy them on the market, trade or get them for a cool price from my clan ;) Whats the problem? Its much easier and faster. Doing all alone for sure is a long road to go. BUT possible without a question and without botting or whatever.
Anyways, we are going far off-topic.
If yuo are talking about the drac bow mats please tell me how much ancient adena you collected at all? Without botting and buying?
Should be less than a weekends of cata grinding on a proper [sub]class (Warlock, for example; but even BH with proper support will do), if I calculated correctly.
In general I agree with the senitment of Uncle Tom's argument. Not necessarily the details.
Krissa and Dragon are arguing "it CAN be done--not impossible" and Uncle Tom is arguing "it's not easy and most won't do it" (at least that 'should' have been his argument :)).
Overall he's right. Most (not all--MOST) of the players in this game at best ebay the adena to buy mats and at worst ebay the adena to simply buy the inflated item (and then claim they crafted it). For THOSE players, it actually is NOT possible for them to complete the crafts the right way in the time frames they toss out.
They generally read what others say and then claim that's how they did it.
"um, yeah--150million adena in 3 days? I, um, MANORED for it...."
COULD you, from the right manor and circumstances profit 150m in 3 days? Yeah. But few other than bot runners actually do these days (don't get your shorts in a twist--I KNOW you can still manor and not be a cheater).
For the rest of us, it requires some luck at a few levels to actually accomplish significant seeding/harvesting and then the massive sale of the right mat that is at its optimum price at the right moment you want to sell.
So in the particular a player could get the drac bow as outlined. In general, I think very, very few do.
Certainly the solid clans of good size can have their Maestro's turn out these weapons if they choose.
Some cooperatives among a few close players could as well.
Does the usual guy running around with one craft it these days? I'm not buying that! When cornered about their extremely good fortune they parrot back the ideas shared by posters like Dragonz and Krissa--who know what they are talking about.
Because "most" of the players with the most expensive weapons have never bought a manor seed in their time in game, they've never farmed AA as a goal over a weekend--"most" of them run around PvPing or hunting in top zones with a couple of close friends for a few hours per day--NOT farming mats, NOT farming AA, NOT saving adena, NOT farming craft components or recipes.
That's why it's hard for a new clanmate to BS the most active and experienced clan leaders! When the new guy at level 61 who had 3m adena last Saturday says on MOnday they got 200m worth of adena somehow and I was on all weekend--it's pretty clear that's nothing but a tall tale.
Those of us who have played for a long time begin to have a very good feel (based upon experience) for seal stone drops per hour in specific groups in specific catas--as an example.
How many S-grade players (or A or B--whatever) running around actually produced to get their gear? Nobody knows. I would be shocked beyond belief it is was anywhere near 1/2.
I at least can say, that all equip i got, i did got by myself. I also used manor to earn some extra mats for craft my A grade stuff and earn a bit more adena. The best way anyway is to farm KE when your clan have a fort. Like that you may get rich very fast and make over 1kkk
don't think 10 mil AA in a day is too unreasonable but there is no friggn way i'd farm drac shafts myself since there are far too many bots and far too few BH to make it worth my time
Farming AA isn’t hard. Anyone who knows how to lvl can do it. I used to do it for a living on l2.
Uncle Tom ur argument against Coth and his ability to craft two drac bows is flawed. Of course he didn’t start with 0 adena and 0 mats, but he probably didn’t have enough BY FAR. Probably wasn’t even close. Anyone with a good clan or a good party set up can do it given enough time. He said it took him two months. Totally believable. That’s a lot of mats. I have a few friends who just love the challenge of crafting stuff. I don’t, I’ll be completely honest here, to get my drac bow I sold my AQ ring. Of course I got more than just A drac bow but let’s not get into that. However I have helped my friend farm the mats for hers. It took a long time, and she succeeded on the first try. *thank god* Any good clan or group of friends is willing to help each other to succeed. That’s what MMO is all about.
And to the arguments that removing bots would totally screw the economy forever:
Removing bots would not totally screw the economy forever. Not for even a year, maybe 6 months at most. The economy would never again stabilize at the point it is now, but that the point. It wouldn’t be the same, it would be player based. Even with the current inflation prices would eventually settle below their current point. Why? Because they HAVE TO. Players aren’t going to just lock up and shut down because they are afraid of the economy without bots. Lots of players enjoy playing the economy and would venture out at this new opportunity. Players will always need more gear, and it would be other players who supply it. Yeah at first the economy would grind to a halt, but it would move forward again because it HAS TO. Gear on this game is like groceries irl. It’s a necessary, and there for will always be in demand.
Now everyone has their faults. Not all of us are good at playing the economy. I'm not, I pretty much just get by. But that’s all I need to do. I'm not looking to be the top dog. I pvp, and I survive. I actually win quite a bit w/o OE gear etc. So this is no care bear, let’s all hold hands and help each other, person talking. I guess before I get to far off topic, I’d just like to say, PanadaBear ur totally right. Let’s quit beating the dead horse. It’s starting the stink XP
Farming AA isn’t hard. Anyone who knows how to lvl can do it. I used to do it for a living on l2.
Uncle Tom ur argument against Coth and his ability to craft two drac bows is flawed.
I didn't see anyone say it was "hard". The point is that it takes TIME. If someone is playing 6-8 hours per day and spending that PvPing--they are not farming AA in catas.
It's not a function of difficulty--it's a function of logged in time.
That's my issue with many so-called ubers who have billions worth of gear in 3 months. I understand better than most that it is POSSIBLE. But as you commit 12 hours per day LEVELING, it's not FEASIBLE that you also somehow had another 20+ hours per day on that same account to earn adena!
Let's not be so hard on Uncle Tom. I've already noted that in detail his argument is not one that I would make. But in general he raises a solid point. Cause let's be just a bit honest here for a second--"most" (whatever that means) players do not play this game in a legitimate manner.
Thats Lineage II..Lineage was created to be like that. Its a hard game indeed and not for everybodys daily playing. You need to dedicate yourself much in the time you play and you cant expect to succeed so fast like you want to. Maybe you will need weeks or month to get your complete armor or wep set or whatever you set for yourself as a goal. But if you have patient and work you will succeed. This game is also not mention to play solo like much other mmorpgs out there. So if you have a clan, things get pretty much more faster and easier.
I like how the game is..i know its hard but that is the challenge for me. Well and the bots? Let them be..much more care has been taken now about them..i see that and many others noticed that too.
He said it took him two months to craft two drac bows :P Not a few days, I'm sure he didn’t just spring up to s grade out of nowhere. My problem with Uncle Tom in this thread is that he’s saying it’s impossible for a player to succeed and be legit. And that’s not true. And he’s got a little bit of a rant / bs thing going on and he needs to cool off. :P
You can’t just target two sentences out of my argument and ignore the rest of the thread. He never said he earned the adena. He farmed the mats. :P It takes a lot of time and it sucks and xp is slow. Just because most players have difficulty / don’t want to do it, it doesn’t mean that you have to cheat. Not everyone is supposed to be geared out in top gear and at top lvl.
At this point the problem is too far gone. It’s not gonna be fixed overnight, probably isn’t going to be fixed period. A few bannings of serious offenders is good enough to keep me happy. But to say this game would fail completely without bots is wrong. This game might actually play like it’s supposed to without bots :P
Vaermina:
You read my posts as the devil reads the bible:mad:
What I said is if tomorrow the bots are suddenly 100% removed the servers economics will drop in chaos. After it reemerge from the chaos the final result will be the new players will be never able to catch with the old timers which run with +8 Drac bows +150 earth and 5 boss jewels.
Thewn suddenly the guy (forgot the name) started to explain me how he for 2 months personally farmed 2 complete sets of crafts for his drac bow without buying anything from the market. And because most of the posters here never crafted drac bow themselves I just wrote what is included in 2 sets of crafts for a drac bow. Because unlike you I craft almost every day, I have high lvl crafter and high lvl spoiler and nevertheless I have to buy almost all of my materials from the market. Then the guy proceeded to explain how he went for those 2 months from lvl 76 to lvl 77 untill farming all those mats (personally, but with friends). It is possible but I don't buy it. Of course if under "helped by friends" he wants to say the friends gave him most of the mats this is quite another thing. Although it still doesn't mean "he farmed them personally".
Vaermina:
You read my posts as the devil reads the bible:mad:
What I said is if tomorrow the bots are suddenly 100% removed the servers economics will drop in chaos. After it reemerge from the chaos the final result will be the new players will be never able to catch with the old timers which run with +8 Drac bows +150 earth and 5 boss jewels.
Nope, you didn't. You very first post in this thread was how hard it was for you to spend 3 hours to farm Varnish for something like Drac Bow.
If you had stated what you are posting now, the discussion would be different (like... who would care about those old +8 drac bows when we are going to have S84 weapons in the game later; technically, in the next update).
Thewn suddenly the guy (forgot the name) started to explain me how he for 2 months personally farmed 2 complete sets of crafts for his drac bow without buying anything from the market.
And rightly so.
And because most of the posters here never crafted drac bow themselves
Sure thing. Especially Nanashi.
I just wrote what is included in 2 sets of crafts for a drac bow.
It has nothing to do with Drac Bow. It's about how all 60% crafts work. It starts in B-grade.
Because unlike you I craft almost every day, I have high lvl crafter and high lvl spoiler and nevertheless I have to buy almost all of my materials from the market.
Sure. Because on the current market it's just cheaper to farm non-mat stuff like stones, sell them to ebayers and buy the mats from bots. But if it changes, there's nothing really to worry about... if you aren't an ebayer or a bot.