Two days last week, GMs did a good job cleaning up some of the servers. I was beginning to think that Lineage could pull itself out of its hole.
However, only 1 day was I able to find good exp spots. Everywhere now is completely riddled with bot groups who do not fear banning: they are there 24 hours a day and shamelessly leave loot they don't want to lag the server severely.
Worst of all, and the thing the makes me reconsider this game, is, ironically, the event. I wanted an Agathion of Love so badly. I spent countless hours exping (pole group exping, big pulls, and I got all the loot), and trying to buy pieces or ask people who didn't want them. I rounded up about 30 cakes. 28 Gave me scrolls or pots, 1 made it to velvety, 1 to decadent. 2 EABs and 2 EWBs.
This would be fine, I thought, except for one thing: everywhere I go, I see bots with an agathion of love. In fact, I have only seen 2 or 3 people who actually earned their's; the rest are bots who are exping afk with an agathion out.
Now, GMs, how do you think this makes me feel? I put everything I could into this event, and the majority of the people who are enjoying it are the cheaters! What kind of message do you think this sends?
On another note, I am very excited for Gracia Final. However, I feel that it will be ruined if the game is not fixed now. Look on other Lineage forums, and you will see people asking "how long till Final? Im botting as fast as I can to attain a high level before it."
I think its about time we get an official response on the future of Lineage II: are we always going to have bots in the game? Should I continue to waste my precious life going everywhere reporting thousands of people with the button, only to see nothing being done?
Here is a screenshot of an in-game petition response:
As you can see, the GM is telling me he is pleased to receive positive feedback and to "keep the reports coming." Even after giving you the benefit of the doubt that it actually does take some time to "investigate" the bots, I see only a minimal amount being done. Much more large-scale bannings are necessary to deter people from cheating in the game. I have seen some people revert to botting who have complained for years about the cheaters - they just feel that it is the only way to play Lineage II, and know that there is a very low chance they will be caught. Being a competitive game, it is impossible to ignore these people; it takes away almost every bit of enjoyment of Lineage II. (and even if it weren't competitive, the increased difficulty of making money and finding exp spots would be bad enough)
Bottom line: I really do not think I am asking for too much for GMs to make a strong presence on servers and be more vigilant in the anti-cheating movement. PLEASE save this game, it is so beautiful and is being ruined by people who abuse it to, among other things, make real life money. I would be happy to offer my services as a GM or anything else, if you need any type of help please let me know.
yup. Without saying much...i agree with you. Also about this event. I see bots running around with main chars in A/S grade in BS and other locations. I report them but i see them there still today.
I'd just like to add, for the first time on Phoenix server, I am seeing high levels in top level clans botting while still in clan. If not stopped, this will start a trend that will destroy what's left of the server.
I'd just like to add, for the first time on Phoenix server, I am seeing high levels in top level clans botting while still in clan. If not stopped, this will start a trend that will destroy what's left of the server.
Really? This is the first time you've seen that? Phoenix is admittedly way behind the curve on that, unlike Sayha/Teon/Luna and probably others where entire clans at the top have afk botted for months if not years.
Yes, everyone hates bots. No, we don't need more threads saying the exact same thing. As to the official response you want, come on, you already know the answer. "The GM's are working as hard as they can to ban bots but investigating into reports takes time. Please be patient." They will continue banning bots at the current rate, I wouldn't expect a major change in that policy.
Read Sayha Report - My Goal is to prove GMs are here to protect the Good of the L2community
General good? I do not really understand what you mean by "general good" if people are able to bot in an area (like IOP) when there is NOTHING anybody can do about it. The programs they are using are WAY MORE than just "botting"; it has reached the point where people are downright HACKING. How does the general good benefit if this is for the most part ignored?
Another note, and please tell me if you think otherwise:
I believe GMs think that the game it may be too late to reverse the game. I just wish I could let them know how wrong they are. I would have no problem with leaving the people who cheated to get massive adena, levels, etc. if GMs would stop this forever in the future. I also really think that now, before Gracia Final, the biggest update in Lineage history, is the best time to really start reshaping the game and correcting its mistakes. Because if it is not done now, it is a bad sign that it will never happen and that this is the road Lineage will go down on. We still have so much ahead of us in Lineage II(think of Lineage I, which is still subscription based after 10 years!).
The reputations I am getting really show just how many people wish that you, NCsoft, would listen to and help us. How am i supposed to spread my love for this game if I am embarrassed to tell others that I play a game so full of cheaters? I, and I'm sure others, would be happy to share our love for this game and bring back a surge of players if you will allow us to!
Well, quite frankly, after what happened to me today, I can understand what takes them so long. If everyone pushes the button or reports like this guy did, they must have tons of reports to go through every **** day.
Case in point, I am in blazing swamp with my two box SE. As per usual, I aggro too dang many mobs and find myself crumpled on the ground (and I wonder why I can't get to 76, but that's neither here nor there). No one was on to rez me with a bishop, so I rezzed myself with my SE. Yeah, that hurt. In the meantime, this dude has come and pretty much taken my hunting spot. I see him turn me in (811:Tower of Insolence) so I ask him why, you know? And also inform him to please move down slightly. I share, I just wanted my little area. I hear "smthing is wrong" I'm like what? He says "you're dead". So I'm assuming this dude means he is going to kill me. So I ask him why the hell he is gonna kill me since I was there first. He goes "No I still see you as dead, right here" as he runs to where I was. I'm like "dude, I'm standing right behind you next to my boxed SE". He logs out, logs back in and goes "oh that's better"
But he assumed, due to HIS OWN COMPUTER MALFUNCTION, that he was looking at a bot. First off, since when can someone not lay on the ground waiting for a rez? Second, do you ASK first? Talk to me? Say something? Nope, you ASSUME.
How many folks do this? How many reports do they get a DAY? An HOUR?
I'm not saying the bots are not a problem, but after today, I think I might understand a bit better why they take so long to research the reports.
On average, it takes 0.5 seconds to identify a bot.
The problem isn't that the gms don't know who is and who isn't botting. They just don't put any effort into the process whatsoever. They are okay with letting these bots run rampant because probably like most people say, they lose money monthly off of each account they ban... Or more likely, They aren't allowed to for one reason or another. Infact, they are probably obliged to embed some of the bots with name changes/gender changes/class changes due to "contracts" with 3rd party personnel.
Theres been proof of correspondance between NC and chinese farmers in lin1.
Are you saying that the bots that get reported via the bot button see a message like that?
Just wow. I hope not.
You make a fine point though, there are probably tons of bot button reports to sift through. If the GMs aren't using some mechanical method to sort out the mountain of data then we have a very dumb tech group "supporting" the GMs.
I sincerely doubt that even a level 1 support team member looks at each and every bot button report, just the ones that pass some level of filtering.
That's also why you never see any swift action to a specific bot button report. It takes time to build up the "confidence level" of a specific cheater to the point where they show up on a "most wanted" list.
The strategy for players using the bot button is to apply it on a regular basis on the same bot/bot train over a period of time. There is no quick fix.
Are you saying that the bots that get reported via the bot button see a message like that?
Even if they do see a message like this, what's it going to do? They log out? Yea.. so... they just log right back in again a few hours later to be reported again. There's no hiding from the bot report button, if it works.
Worst of all, and the thing the makes me reconsider this game, is, ironically, the event. I wanted an Agathion of Love so badly. I spent countless hours exping (pole group exping, big pulls, and I got all the loot), and trying to buy pieces or ask people who didn't want them. I rounded up about 30 cakes. 28 Gave me scrolls or pots, 1 made it to velvety, 1 to decadent. 2 EABs and 2 EWBs
i wish i could give you my agathion and take your ewb,eab....6 cakes 3 agathion 3 days.....
I also am tired of seing bots almost everywhere i go to xp.
In several situations i, quite inocently, after seeing several groups of bots, i tried to use the petition ingame to warn the gns (pls dont laugh very loud :o) and allways the gms are out.
Later i took note of the report bot button and start to use him...
Because i dont want to make false reports i do the following:
1- See "someone" called 1jjçlk3 or something similar (alone our in group)
2- Talk with him several times
3- If he dont answer to my greetings i report him
Main problem of the report button seems to be the great number of reports a gm should deal, and that waste so much time of the gms.
Should be more easy if the gms walked invisible (they can?) in the spots most full of bots, verify by themselves the bot activity and ban at the spot?
I think that is better because much people maybe uses the bot button without any prudence, and gave too much reports to the gms deal, and some of the reports can be false reports to harm their "enemies" ingame.
To finish: the gms can make a event and the rewards could be the spoil of all the banned bots in that week! :p
Are you saying that the bots that get reported via the bot button see a message like that?
Nope. But if you report them the old way, sometimes everyone around can see a message like that (due to a bug in the game).
Or you just have fun with them... there is these 3 toons botting in BS at the very top - so I made a little adena trail from the center of the area to the edge of the cliff - as soon as the lead toon was close, it started to pick up the 1 adena trail I left, and before you knew it, they fell over the cliff. Been doing this for about a week now, not that I want the spot, but because it was cheep fun for me. The best part is that I ran into the person actually playing live while I was setting up my "yellow brick road" and they asked me what I was doing - I said "adena art" - 2 mins later... the toons fell off the cliff again...
Or you just have fun with them... there is these 3 toons botting in BS at the very top - so I made a little adena trail from the center of the area to the edge of the cliff - as soon as the lead toon was close, it started to pick up the 1 adena trail I left, and before you knew it, they fell over the cliff. Been doing this for about a week now, not that I want the spot, but because it was cheep fun for me. The best part is that I ran into the person actually playing live while I was setting up my "yellow brick road" and they asked me what I was doing - I said "adena art" - 2 mins later... the toons fell off the cliff again...
Or you just have fun with them... there is these 3 toons botting in BS at the very top - so I made a little adena trail from the center of the area to the edge of the cliff - as soon as the lead toon was close, it started to pick up the 1 adena trail I left, and before you knew it, they fell over the cliff. Been doing this for about a week now, not that I want the spot, but because it was cheep fun for me. The best part is that I ran into the person actually playing live while I was setting up my "yellow brick road" and they asked me what I was doing - I said "adena art" - 2 mins later... the toons fell off the cliff again...
I used to do that a long time ago.. .but some of them grew out of that.. they only pick their own drops now... except arrows.
You all know that at BEST this forum is a subset of the player base, yes?
Cause if you can believe everyone who posts here, there are a couple hundred players who try to be legit.
The rest of the thousands of accounts aren't even trying to pretend they don't bot.
In my opinion we are forced to put up with bots because a) without them some huge % of players will not be able to play sans cheating, and b) that would cause massive quitting which would hurt NCSofts NA/EU revenue.
You are welcome to any opinion you care to hold. This is mine. Nearly everyone cheats and most have cheated so long that they are unable and unwilling to play any other way, and, the loss of those accounts would cause NCSoft some financial pain.
Seems that in the short run, banning tons of bots would be quite profitable for NCSoft. The accounts that get banned are quickly replaced, generating 2 months service fees for 1 bot.
Of course, once the botters get wise (admittedly it may take a long time) the revenue would shrink. I would suggest that more happy and legal players would be more profitable in the long run as the game will continue much longer than if everyone that is legit gets fed up and quits to find that there is a big world out there.
Seems that in the short run, banning tons of bots would be quite profitable for NCSoft. The accounts that get banned are quickly replaced, generating 2 months service fees for 1 bot.
Of course, once the botters get wise (admittedly it may take a long time) the revenue would shrink. I would suggest that more happy and legal players would be more profitable in the long run as the game will continue much longer than if everyone that is legit gets fed up and quits to find that there is a big world out there.
I would, but the big wide world scares me...
Tabbie, I don't disagree. But a company's finances are a function of math. Product price x volume = gross revenue.
Of the "volume" there are some # of us who try hard to be legit. If they retained ALL of us forever, they'd have a couple/few hundred accounts. Everyone else is botter/ebayer. If they lose all of those through effective bot elimination, they cannot hope to get enough "legit" subscribers to ever make up for the loss!
Idk the %'s (no one does). Just a wild guess on my part? 10% or less of players have played legit throughout. I fear it may even be less than that! And also imo, a HUGE part of the 90% left who DO routinely bot/ebay are not able/willing to play this game straight.
Though I agree with you, I think time has shown that legit players are such a minor portion of the subscription base that retaining us isn't really a major goal.
Again, others can feel differently--this is just what I've come to believe.
You all know that at BEST this forum is a subset of the player base, yes?
Cause if you can believe everyone who posts here, there are a couple hundred players who try to be legit.
The rest of the thousands of accounts aren't even trying to pretend they don't bot.
In my opinion we are forced to put up with bots because a) without them some huge % of players will not be able to play sans cheating, and b) that would cause massive quitting which would hurt NCSofts NA/EU revenue.
You are welcome to any opinion you care to hold. This is mine. Nearly everyone cheats and most have cheated so long that they are unable and unwilling to play any other way, and, the loss of those accounts would cause NCSoft some financial pain.
Just how I've come to see things.
~D~
You fail to see many of the factors involved. First off, they do not have to ban ALL accounts immediately. While I do commend them in the recent bannings of some bots, specifically the most dangerous "top clan bots", there are still plenty of people who do not fear a ban. If the rules are enforced to a certain point, many people who cheat will revert back to playing fair, which will in turn allow others who only cheated in the first place because of others to go back to playing fair, etc. The few who still cheat would be the ones to get banned: this is a theory I have seen work with unbelievable success in other games. It saves both the GMs time (to investigate all the people we report) and the players a TON of stress.
So basically, we need to find the level of enforcement that will deter most people from cheating, and there will be very little work for GMs left for the few who continue to do so. This way, NCsoft can actually GAIN revenue in the (not-so) long run by the surge of people who will come back, invite their friends, etc., as they do not even have to ban "every single bot". I really hope a GM reads and understands this concept, as it is by far the best solution for Lineage right now.
Of the "volume" there are some # of us who try hard to be legit. If they retained ALL of us forever, they'd have a couple/few hundred accounts. Everyone else is botter/ebayer. If they lose all of those through effective bot elimination, they cannot hope to get enough "legit" subscribers to ever make up for the loss!
I think Sayha has more bots/botters than any other server. Wherever you go you are more likely to run into bots than real people.
We also have one clan that owns the server and all the heroes and a lot of them bot openly in large groups: Nova <3's arrows (http://i44.tinypic.com/w1p6wj.jpg) A few of them got banned last week but the rest just keep going. They know that what the GMs did was just a "freak accident", and unlikely to happen again.
Some people argue that we need the bots because the servers will die without them. It's sad to hear because with that attitude this game is dead already. IMO, they should ban as many bots as possible and then merge the servers. That would also cut down the service/maintenance costs.
I present: The death song of the GMs, brought to you by Depeche Mode
I want somebody who cares
For me passionately
With every thought and
With every breath
Someone wholl help me see things
In a different light
All the things I detest
I will almost like
I dont want to be tied
To anyones strings
Im carefully trying to steer clear of
Those things
But when Im asleep
I want somebody
Who will put their arms around me
And kiss me tenderly
Though things like this
Make me sick
In a case like this
Ill get away with it
Aaaahhhhh....
For those who can't read that, I present the alternative song, Rise of the GMs, written in Hindi for our new GMs that don't speak English -
(Yuun Shabnami Pehle Nahi Thi Chaandani
Chaand Woh Bharma Gaya, Tujhko Dekha Toh Sharma Gaya
Woh Churaane Laga Hai Nazar) - 2
Yuun Shabnami.......
Dekho Chaand Aaya, Chaand Nazar Aaya - 3
Aaya Aaya Aaya Chaand Aaya Sharmaaya
Haanji Aaya Aaya Aaya Sharmaaya
Tu Bhi Aaja Saawariya
Aaya Aaya Aaya Dekho Chaand Nazar Woh Aaya
Dekho Chaand Nazar Dekho Dekho Ji Chaand Nazar Woh Aaya
Sharmaaya Aaya Aaya Aaya Chaand Aaya Sharmaaya
There is an interesting problem happening on dev as I assume other servers. There is nothing for sale anymore.
Many of top clans bot and buy adena so openly now they do not even bother to set up their manor systems anymore. On top of that they horde all their drops to their own clans because they do not want potential enemies to get items.
Final most in games items no longer have a price in adena. Someone just bought a +16 draconic bow for 1800 euros? How does a legit player compete when adena no longer has any value. A baium ring is no longer even sold because its worth more then 2 billion adena so its for only for sale for real life cash.
For a legit player to get that ring, well it wont happen they either have to buy it with cash or leave with having to clan with botters to get a chance at getting one.
Also botters have killed the market try to find the basic mats to craft anything anymore and nevermind how overpriced soulshots have gotten and ancient adena 8 each now lol
I present: The death song of the GMs, brought to you by Depeche Mode
I want somebody who cares
For me passionately
With every thought and
With every breath
Someone wholl help me see things
In a different light
All the things I detest
I will almost like
I dont want to be tied
To anyones strings
Im carefully trying to steer clear of
Those things
But when Im asleep
I want somebody
Who will put their arms around me
And kiss me tenderly
Though things like this
Make me sick
In a case like this
Ill get away with it
Aaaahhhhh....
For those who can't read that, I present the alternative song, Rise of the GMs, written in Hindi for our new GMs that don't speak English -
(Yuun Shabnami Pehle Nahi Thi Chaandani
Chaand Woh Bharma Gaya, Tujhko Dekha Toh Sharma Gaya
Woh Churaane Laga Hai Nazar) - 2
Yuun Shabnami.......
Dekho Chaand Aaya, Chaand Nazar Aaya - 3
Aaya Aaya Aaya Chaand Aaya Sharmaaya
Haanji Aaya Aaya Aaya Sharmaaya
Tu Bhi Aaja Saawariya
Aaya Aaya Aaya Dekho Chaand Nazar Woh Aaya
Dekho Chaand Nazar Dekho Dekho Ji Chaand Nazar Woh Aaya
Sharmaaya Aaya Aaya Aaya Chaand Aaya Sharmaaya
Got any other cool one-liners for this pic? (Thanks Coth, for posting that)
This clan has 95% of the heroes. 95% of them are still unbanned and I guarantee there are several in this picture that are having fun right now afk botting.
But, I imagine its easier to make a little quip than it is to go out and clear out the trash that has infested the Monument of Heroes on Sayha.
Maybe it's too late for L2, Spam? Should we just live with it then, and be happy, or are you guys gonna take care of business and let us know that yes, please stick with L2, we're gonna show you can't bot your way to hero status.
How can anyone on Sayha not think you are incompetent when they are confronted with scenes like this every day? Honestly, you guys are failing big time. If you don't want to ban all the chinese farmers/etc, whatever, that's your cash flow, but heck, at least make sure people can't bot their way to hero status. If the botting heroes on Sayha have so little regard for your GMs and policies that they openly bot with their clan tags and their sparkly little glows, that reeks of incompetence and you guys need to get your head in the game.
I am sure you work hard, etc, but if I was in charge of something like this I would get my butt canned, being a hero is one of the most important aspects of the game and you guys are turning a blind eye to 95% of it.
If you want to make a company policy and say that it is allowed, perhaps you should do that because otherwise it just makes you guys look *really* bad.
{Removed image because it broke the formatting. It has been posted 10 times before anyways.}
Got any other cool one-liners for this pic? (Thanks Coth, for posting that)
This clan has 95% of the heroes. 95% of them are still unbanned and I guarantee there are several in this picture that are having fun right now afk botting.
But, I imagine its easier to make a little quip than it is to go out and clear out the trash that has infested the Monument of Heroes on Sayha.
Maybe it's too late for L2, Spam? Should we just live with it then, and be happy, or are you guys gonna take care of business and let us know that yes, please stick with L2, we're gonna show you can't bot your way to hero status.
How can anyone on Sayha not think you are incompetent when they are confronted with scenes like this every day? Honestly, you guys are failing big time. If you don't want to ban all the chinese farmers/etc, whatever, that's your cash flow, but heck, at least make sure people can't bot their way to hero status. If the botting heroes on Sayha have so little regard for your GMs and policies that they openly bot with their clan tags and their sparkly little glows, that reeks of incompetence and you guys need to get your head in the game.
I am sure you work hard, etc, but if I was in charge of something like this I would get my butt canned, being a hero is one of the most important aspects of the game and you guys are turning a blind eye to 95% of it.
If you want to make a company policy and say that it is allowed, perhaps you should do that because otherwise it just makes you guys look *really* bad.
{Removed image because it broke the formatting. It has been posted 10 times before anyways.}
I posted the one liner to bring some levity to this thread. Some appreciated it, and I assume you did not.
So here is the skinny…
We ban bots every day. We ban hundreds of bot everyday. Thousands a week. Hundreds of thousands a year. While they may or may not be the bots you have in any one particular screenshot, we are doing our best. Now, my pay is not dependant on bots staying in the game. Some bean counter somewhere might like paying customers, but he does not have his hand on the ban button. I do. I like a fair playing environment. (Believe me I am not saying this one is fair.) So while my fellow Sr. GMs are banning bots, I am here answering their support ticket as they cry about being innocent, and how they were just “using a Nostromo.” “Wha-Wha-Wha.” Eat it Cylon. Your tears taste good.
So we are all in a pickle here. I have to ban all of the bots but not get anyone by mistake, which means I have to put away the napalm and use my rifle. Fair enough. I have not given up in 5 years, and I don’t plan on giving up. I’m going to keep doing this, and grind the bones of bots into cakes until none of us are here any longer.
So while I wait for some brainiac programmer to make the cure for the L2 bot cancer I am going to continue cutting it out with my hatchet. You can help, or get out the way. But please don’t break this thread again with some messed up picture that has been posted 5 times. All of the GMs read these forums while they are banning bots. They know what you are going through and are not ignoring you. They are just working.
Thanks,
~spam
PS it has been a year since my last rant. Sorry for the splash damage.
There is an interesting problem happening on dev as I assume other servers. There is nothing for sale anymore.
Many of top clans bot and buy adena so openly now they do not even bother to set up their manor systems anymore. On top of that they horde all their drops to their own clans because they do not want potential enemies to get items.
Final most in games items no longer have a price in adena. Someone just bought a +16 draconic bow for 1800 euros? How does a legit player compete when adena no longer has any value. A baium ring is no longer even sold because its worth more then 2 billion adena so its for only for sale for real life cash.
For a legit player to get that ring, well it wont happen they either have to buy it with cash or leave with having to clan with botters to get a chance at getting one.
Also botters have killed the market try to find the basic mats to craft anything anymore and nevermind how overpriced soulshots have gotten and ancient adena 8 each now lol
Bots have killed the economies not feeding it.
+1 Sly.
I pmed one of the usual dwarfs, out of curiosity, selling BJs on Giran.. he said: add me to MSN... there he asked for 500$.
I told him to go sell it to A---is...(rumour has it that he's funding entire clan with RL money).
Fortunately.. I'm in a position.. to get a Baium.. or any other Boss Jewel.
Another rumour is that A---is mate, Ab--on, was earning very good money until his clan got wasted for allying the wrong one.. but hey.. "at least he earned RL money".. this is what I heard from a clannie of him.
To Spam:
I only saw the 1-liner now.. I must say it was right on the spot!
/me paints his fingernails black.
About the "rant".. some of us don't doubt your work.. it came a bit late, probably, but it's being done... and I'm glad to hear that you and your team will grind away bots. Until your bones hurt.
I get that 811 Code every time i hit the help button. I just hit it in Giran to test it out and it says 811; TanorCanyon. So I'm glad im not the only one with a screwed up help button. And You should be glad, Verita you probably werent being repoted as a bot, he was probably trying to use his help button.
I posted the one liner to bring some levity to this thread. Some appreciated it, and I assume you did not.
So here is the skinny…
We ban bots every day. We ban hundreds of bot everyday. Thousands a week. Hundreds of thousands a year. While they may or may not be the bots you have in any one particular screenshot, we are doing our best. Now, my pay is not dependant on bots staying in the game. Some bean counter somewhere might like paying customers, but he does not have his hand on the ban button. I do. I like a fair playing environment. (Believe me I am not saying this one is fair.) So while my fellow Sr. GMs are banning bots, I am here answering their support ticket as they cry about being innocent, and how they were just “using a Nostromo.” “Wha-Wha-Wha.” Eat it Cylon. Your tears taste good.
So we are all in a pickle here. I have to ban all of the bots but not get anyone by mistake, which means I have to put away the napalm and use my rifle. Fair enough. I have not given up in 5 years, and I don’t plan on giving up. I’m going to keep doing this, and grind the bones of bots into cakes until none of us are here any longer.
So while I wait for some brainiac programmer to make the cure for the L2 bot cancer I am going to continue cutting it out with my hatchet. You can help, or get out the way. But please don’t break this thread again with some messed up picture that has been posted 5 times. All of the GMs read these forums while they are banning bots. They know what you are going through and are not ignoring you. They are just working.
Thanks,
~spam
PS it has been a year since my last rant. Sorry for the splash damage.
Not saying you are not doing your job but a new (perhaps not totally new but I recently became aware by the openess of the other forums you know what I am saying) Its called a Sniffer? program. Does not matter what sub I am they know my class level hp/mp and gear. Also allows use of auto spamming CP and QHP pots all you need to do is watch a siege and see someone spamming pots while running and attacking and know its not humanely possible.
Question do I report these people with the bot button? Since it is automated gameplay or do petition it the old fashioned way? I am sure you are aware of the program but I am guessing lot harder to figure out since they are not afk.
Sorry if I don't exactly buy what you're feeding me, but the way you make it sound is as if you have sympathy for players who may be caught up in the collateral damage of bot detection.. Which 1st is bulls....... yeah, and 2nd... wait, do I need a 2nd?
You guys didn't earn the name "Not Caring" by accident.
Sorry if I don't exactly buy what you're feeding me, but the way you make it sound is as if you have sympathy for players who may be caught up in the collateral damage of bot detection.. Which 1st is bulls....... yeah, and 2nd... wait, do I need a 2nd?
You guys didn't earn the name "Not Caring" by accident.
I am not quite sure I understand your question. You are asking if instead of permabanning bots that I should just give them a 3 day ban?
My point was that we do not ban more accounts faster because we do not want to make a mistake. If I close an account I want to be sure. No arguments, no reversals. It's the reversals that has led us to where we are now. It's reversals that gave the idea to every botting shmuck that saying they are from an internet cafe, and use a nostromo, and they must have been hacked the hope they can be unbanned.
If I didn't care... I would not be checking the forums after finishing my dinner and watching heroes. (Really what is going on with that show.) All of the GMs care. Do you care that we care?
Sly: Use the bot button for now. It just makes it easier for us to look at folks and it is instant reporting for us. I can see it in real time. If you use the petition client, the GM takes your report, then puts it in another report, that gets looked at. It just takes longer. I will admit that the combat (PvP/sniffer) bots are harder to detect because they are all client side... but we know they are there.
I am not quite sure I understand your question. You are asking if instead of permabanning bots that I should just give them a 3 day ban?
My point was that we do not ban more accounts faster because we do not want to make a mistake. If I close an account I want to be sure. No arguments, no reversals. It's the reversals that has led us to where we are now. It's reversals that gave the idea to every botting shmuck that saying they are from an internet cafe, and use a nostromo, and they must have been hacked the hope they can be unbanned.
If I didn't care... I would not be checking the forums after finishing my dinner and watching heroes. (Really what is going on with that show.) All of the GMs care. Do you care that we care?
Sly: Use the bot button for now. It just makes it easier for us to look at folks and it is instant reporting for us. I can see it in real time. If you use the petition client, the GM takes your report, then puts it in another report, that gets looked at. It just takes longer. I will admit that the combat (PvP/sniffer) bots are harder to detect because they are all client side... but we know they are there.
First let me say that my experience coming back here is that the bot problem is far less severe than the last time I tried this out, so on that you and your team are owed some positive acknowledgment. However, I think a great source of frustration is when someone reports a WTF obvious no questions asked 9 man bot train and 2 days later it is still there while you complete an investigation. Look you need to be thorough and that's cool, but what is the major harm in removing these chars from play until you can pour through logs or w/e other checks you need to do. When players can't get a room in a favored spot because someone has a 9 man party set to kill steal... well the player base tends to get pissy tbh.
Personally I would rather risk that one of your GMs made a mistake and I lose a day or two waiting for you to correct it rather than having to PK a train to get the area I want. Btw on the chance that you read this... PLEASE try to find a way to crack down on the in game adena sale spam, it is getting out of hand.
Remembering many years ago in lin1, many people I know who were botting recieved 3day bans
You can probably guess that they didn't immediately return to the devious acts they were partaking in before the ban. Its blanket scare tactics and its enough to prove that you ARE doing something, rather than just saying so on an online forum that about .005% of the bot population reads. In the off chance you do honestly catch a legit player, the account isn't permantly suspended, and you will recieve an email, just like any other botter who has been banned trying to get their account back. BUT the difference is just as your policy on disclosure is tighter than (insert explicit joke here), this legit player will never know the exact reason why he has recieved a 3day ban, and won't have a reason to harass endlessly.
Now, with all of that out of the way lets get serious. Are you seriously going to tell me you cannot detect a bot from an actual player? Nostromo? Gameroom (whatever that has to do with it???)? Thats 100% bogus and like I said, I'm not interested in buying what you're selling. You can save the politics, thanks..
I don't know whats wrong with my client, but when I use /targetnext I can't target mops from 2k+ range away... and ontop of that, I have no idea whatsoever how I'm supposed to know when this mop is targetted by another player and instantly stop my movement and make my way to the 2nd closest monster. Botters are so brazen I can point them out in my freakin sleep, with 0% chance for errors.
I'm sorry but I just don't much believe in the words you are saying to me. Maybe you do care, but I have a hard time seeing it.. Beyond your occasional post with a touch of humor, and assurances that things are moving behind scenes where we have no choice but to take your word, it only stretches so far.
At least you're congenial, I'm more than happy to give you that.
I posted the one liner to bring some levity to this thread. Some appreciated it, and I assume you did not.
So here is the skinny…
We ban bots every day. We ban hundreds of bot everyday. Thousands a week. Hundreds of thousands a year. While they may or may not be the bots you have in any one particular screenshot, we are doing our best. Now, my pay is not dependant on bots staying in the game. Some bean counter somewhere might like paying customers, but he does not have his hand on the ban button. I do. I like a fair playing environment. (Believe me I am not saying this one is fair.) So while my fellow Sr. GMs are banning bots, I am here answering their support ticket as they cry about being innocent, and how they were just “using a Nostromo.” “Wha-Wha-Wha.” Eat it Cylon. Your tears taste good.
So we are all in a pickle here. I have to ban all of the bots but not get anyone by mistake, which means I have to put away the napalm and use my rifle. Fair enough. I have not given up in 5 years, and I don’t plan on giving up. I’m going to keep doing this, and grind the bones of bots into cakes until none of us are here any longer.
So while I wait for some brainiac programmer to make the cure for the L2 bot cancer I am going to continue cutting it out with my hatchet. You can help, or get out the way. But please don’t break this thread again with some messed up picture that has been posted 5 times. All of the GMs read these forums while they are banning bots. They know what you are going through and are not ignoring you. They are just working.
Thanks,
~spam
PS it has been a year since my last rant. Sorry for the splash damage.
you may do just fine but you need to put your boy sabre on a leash, this kid bans parties who are all there all active, not botting, and are 9 toons from 7 different IP's and bans sells shops near the parties for selling them SS, didnt know you could get banned if you had a sellshop not inside giran.
you may do just fine but you need to put your boy sabre on a leash, this kid bans parties who are all there all active, not botting, and are 9 toons from 7 different IP's and bans sells shops near the parties for selling them SS, didnt know you could get banned if you had a sellshop not inside giran.
kids a ******* ******.
was unfair he banned vlordchronic. guy been playing legit for years :( was very nice elf/person to be around friend or foe.
I am not quite sure I understand your question. You are asking if instead of permabanning bots that I should just give them a 3 day ban?
My point was that we do not ban more accounts faster because we do not want to make a mistake. If I close an account I want to be sure. No arguments, no reversals. It's the reversals that has led us to where we are now. It's reversals that gave the idea to every botting shmuck that saying they are from an internet cafe, and use a nostromo, and they must have been hacked the hope they can be unbanned.
your right, but some stories like this are true, you have basically started to ban not just by bot, but guilty by assocation of bots. even if the player is there even if he is live active and not on a 3rd party program, even if the players isnt even in the party, just near a bot party he/she will get banned.
Do you know what it takes to get high lvl in this game? I seriously doubt you do. To be clicking away at mobs day in and day out,clicking f2 for next target f1 for attack and f3 for lethal blow for 8-12 hours a day (nolife) to recieve minimal rewards even at the best of xp spots. you yourself have to become a robot, not a bot, not a 3rd party program but a person of repitition.
You and your team have started to look at endgame players and endgame parties and ban them because they look like bot parties, not because they are. You'll do your little GM bot tests and what not and ask each player to respond, even if they respond you say " oh was one person running all the chracters," when you can clearly look up yourself that there was 7 different IP's for 9 toons.
Jesus you even banned a sell shop dwarf near an xp party because you people are so trigger happy these days. she wasnt even in the xp group.
I totally understand you get hundreds of these emails a day, but why dont you work on fixing the chinese xingxang chingchong ***holes who bot in this game and sell adena and spam pm's ingame before you ban the players who actually play this game.
Remembering many years ago in lin1, many people I know who were botting recieved 3day bans
You can probably guess that they didn't immediately return to the devious acts they were partaking in before the ban. Its blanket scare tactics and its enough to prove that you ARE doing something, rather than just saying so on an online forum that about .005% of the bot population reads. In the off chance you do honestly catch a legit player, the account isn't permantly suspended, and you will recieve an email, just like any other botter who has been banned trying to get their account back. BUT the difference is just as your policy on disclosure is tighter than (insert explicit joke here), this legit player will never know the exact reason why he has recieved a 3day ban, and won't have a reason to harass endlessly.
Now, with all of that out of the way lets get serious. Are you seriously going to tell me you cannot detect a bot from an actual player? Nostromo? Gameroom (whatever that has to do with it???)? Thats 100% bogus and like I said, I'm not interested in buying what you're selling. You can save the politics, thanks..
I don't know whats wrong with my client, but when I use /targetnext I can't target mops from 2k+ range away... and ontop of that, I have no idea whatsoever how I'm supposed to know when this mop is targetted by another player and instantly stop my movement and make my way to the 2nd closest monster. Botters are so brazen I can point them out in my freakin sleep, with 0% chance for errors.
I'm sorry but I just don't much believe in the words you are saying to me. Maybe you do care, but I have a hard time seeing it.. Beyond your occasional post with a touch of humor, and assurances that things are moving behind scenes where we have no choice but to take your word, it only stretches so far.
At least you're congenial, I'm more than happy to give you that.
Jayy,
I think you are misinterpreting what I have said. It is not hard to catch bots. I (or any of my GMs) can log into the game and walk in any direction and catch them all day long. When I catch them with my own eyes, there are no doubts. When one of my GMs catches a bot, they have no doubt. But how does one remove doubt from a third party that evaluates that closed account? Whether it is my boss, a lawyer, a judge, an auditor, or even the Better Business Bureau? They require more than faith in a Game Master to pass judgment on any particular issue. They require evidence; something tangible, something that can be printed and put into a binder. Let’s say that evidence is simply a note that states, when, where, and how, botterx was caught.
The average time to identify, log, and ban a single account for blatant cheating is 3 minutes. If one Game Master banned bots for 6 straight hours a day that is 120 bots removed. This math of course means all the bots are lined up with no delay. Not teleporting around, no pee breaks, just straight up bag and tag. The good news is, that is about the average per GM per day now. This does not count other GMs doing mass bans, but those mostly catch farmers 10-20k at a time. No one ever notices those. You might ask what does a GM do with the rest of their day? The other 2-3 hours of there shift is used to actually help people with quests, lost pets, and deleted items. Well, they also have to deal with everyone that writes in to get their accounts back after we caught them too, but we do our dandiest to actually talk to the people that like to hear from us.
I think what I am trying to say here is that the problem with bots is not the Game Masters fault. A single game master will never be able to catch more than they are now, one at a time. So either the bots will have to just give up, or some new wazoo, wizbang tool will have to be made by a programmer.
I am not quite sure I understand your question. You are asking if instead of permabanning bots that I should just give them a 3 day ban?
My point was that we do not ban more accounts faster because we do not want to make a mistake. If I close an account I want to be sure. No arguments, no reversals. It's the reversals that has led us to where we are now. It's reversals that gave the idea to every botting shmuck that saying they are from an internet cafe, and use a nostromo, and they must have been hacked the hope they can be unbanned.
If I didn't care... I would not be checking the forums after finishing my dinner and watching heroes. (Really what is going on with that show.) All of the GMs care. Do you care that we care?
Sly: Use the bot button for now. It just makes it easier for us to look at folks and it is instant reporting for us. I can see it in real time. If you use the petition client, the GM takes your report, then puts it in another report, that gets looked at. It just takes longer. I will admit that the combat (PvP/sniffer) bots are harder to detect because they are all client side... but we know they are there.
so many people report bot player because the other guy is in a clan war (hello to conflict of interest) with them, while themselves are using bot to automatic log out when someone come close to them. How can we report people when they log out sooner than we can click their name :-/
you may do just fine but you need to put your boy sabre on a leash, this kid bans parties who are all there all active, not botting, and are 9 toons from 7 different IP's and bans sells shops near the parties for selling them SS, didnt know you could get banned if you had a sellshop not inside giran.
kids a ******* ******.
I think sabre is doing an awesome job and that he should keep up with the banning spree he is on. Maybe the few legit players that has never botted will get a chance to go to the end game places without getting PKed all the time by children that runs afk bot parties almost 24/7.
Heck on Aria they even have bot parties at the port spot on HB that targets unvanted visitors and take them down while still in black screen.
The only ******s I can see around here are those that complain about the GM's doing a great job.
oh and you should maybe tell that player that got banned in the sell shop to use the real L2 client next time :p
I know the GM's are very busy banning bots and doing work to help out the community.
I have very often reported bots using both the new system and the old system.
I must say i'm a little disapointed that not once do the GM's come to my location just to see what i see. Atleast not that i can see. Yesterday i was in Shrine of Loyalty on Devianne and what do i see? Alot of bots. Almost all the mobs that i was interested in hunting was taken by small botgroups.
I sent petition on one of the groups because it was so obvious and i seen those toons botting before. I get the usual Thank you note and nothing more as usual, so i was happy when my friends log in so that we could go hunt somewhere else.
I remember in the good old days when you sent petition and you get a live GM to talk to. You did not always get to see them, but atleast you got someone to talk to. What i would really appriciate is that some times GM's actually would take the time to talk to old timers like me to boost my morals up again.
I know that alot of old timers have turned to botting because they do not see any use of playing against those who have been playing less time and getting higher levels and better gear because of botting and not time and skill that we put into the game. I however will not turn to botting because i simply love this game and have put so much time and effort into it.
There are times that i must admit i have been tempted to use third party programs to boost my levels because the grind is a pain, but i don't want to support cheating so i don't do it. :)
All i can say is that if any GM's get a petition from me and have the time to talk to me in real time would just say more than the usual thank you and close the ticket. I would really get a boost of pleasure for the game again if they just pop by and say hi to me when i'm there.
Other than that i just want to add. Keep up that good work and perhaps a little more announcements around when you guys ban bots would be great. :)
I must say I have talked with real GM's in game on several occasion, usually it has to do with a big bug that would take a roll back of the server to correct if not fixed.
1. Was the clan hall bug that some servers experienced when Goddard, Rune, and Shuttgart clan halls went on sale. Got down to wire but Spam in the forums and live gm's in game assured all the clan leaders the bids were not listed in the correct order and was just a text bug.
2. First Innadril Siege in NA which was a Saturday on Dev. Since it was the only NPC owned at the beginning of C2 they did not know about the guard invisble stuck in wall glitch. Live GM's 2 actually showed up and ported guards stuck in the walls out and rez people that were shot by mobs well out of range of killing people.
3. When I D/C and died with my baby pet out when pet timers were a lot shorter. I had the collar but my pet was MIA and couldn't be summoned and could not be located to be rezzed. Live GM Spawned it dead next to me apparently it got stuck in the ground somehow.
If people realized botting was just like crime then maybe people would understand better, you can never get rid of crime only try to control it and enforce your laws to maximum efficiently of your resources which I honestly believe spam does.
The bots, I live with. If you have 5 Mid-Tier Gm banning 100 people a day on 8 servers you do not seem much difference. Like Spam said the mass bannings people notice.
I might suggest though keeping a close eye on hero botters, lets face it they are nice shining examples of Botting and easily seen with the eye :) When they are banned it scares many other botters. Might take a little longer to ban heroes more evidence might be needed but I see just like real life. Since I am in law enforcement, when you take out the top of a gang or a big supplier of drugs, the whole criminal system under them is shaken and in fear because if the top dogs can be taken out, of course they can.
I am not quite sure I understand your question. You are asking if instead of permabanning bots that I should just give them a 3 day ban?
In addition to permabanning 100% confirmed bots, 3-day bans for 90% confirmed bot suspects (excluding the players' bot reports from the confirmation factors). Could be good if done with proper timing (end of month and/or siege weekends).
So while I wait for some brainiac programmer to make the cure for the L2 bot cancer
If you need community help for writing (and calibrating) reliable detectors, it can be organized.
In addition to permabanning 100% confirmed bots, 3-day bans for 90% confirmed bot suspects (excluding the players' bot reports from the confirmation factors). Could be good if done with proper timing (end of month and/or siege weekends).
If you ban them for 3 days.. you can't see them bot.
If you ban them for 3 days.. you can't see them bot.
You don't ban them immediately. And the point is not in banning some bots (who cares anyway, if there will be replacement), but in discouraging people from botting.
Hey GM
I have a question for you, not 100% related to the bot things, but i might as well ask you here.
The 10 hours you have to Spend in the Citadel, where no players can go afk,
to toilet, or catch a drink, or whatever.....
Do you think this is healthy for the people????
GMs don't design the game. Ask Korean developers about such "features".
Ok... after reading this long (and kind of boring) thread, I've come to some conclussions...
1) Some ppl talked about bots being a profit for NC... I don't know if that's true, and I don't really care. Every business should give SERVICE above all. A couple of months ago, Teon was always in Red numbers due to High traffic. Now I'm amazed to see normal or even light at times of the day where it was always red. For me this is a tangible proof that bannings have been occuring. Is this enough? no, not enough. There are still some spots that need to be revised.
2) The bot problem... cut from the beginning... why banning ppl in high, endgame level places only? The sooner you catch the botters, the less cheaters will get to endgame... start visiting lower level areas from higher to lowest (7x-6x-5x). You'll be amazed how many cheaters in subclass you will catch.
3) We hit the bot report button... and? Spam said he needs proof to ban a bot coz he doesn't like to make any mistakes... I agree... but what can players do to get proof easily? Some may not want to contribute, but I would definetely help on that. Need screens? need replays? what can I do to help your GM's provide a better service?
4) Names... we want names!! I want to know who gets banned and where. Name, level, class, area, clan. Not to be shout in-game, but I think it needs to be published somewhere. Maybe a command like /todaybans that displays a list of the banned chars from that day. As you need proof to ban cheaters... I think it's fair enough that we get proof that those numbers of banning are being achieved. Not that I don't trust what Spam said, but I just cannot see it. I insist on Garden of Beasts and Hot Springs because that's on my level range, and I see the same bots that I constantly report over and over again, just growing stronger. So this kind of visible list would give away information and be a proof that something is being done (even though it has been happening)
Anyway, just some thoughts for Spam to consider and revise. I like this game and I believe in curves... in cycles... so if it's bot's era... it should come to an end.
I get that 811 Code every time i hit the help button. I just hit it in Giran to test it out and it says 811; TanorCanyon.
You don't need to select the second drop-down list in that window. It was supposed to be for your convenience only, to provide you with the help on how to report the selected sub-kind of a problem. Just select your case it the first list, and then fill in the report text window.
4) Names... we want names!! I want to know who gets banned and where. Name, level, class, area, clan. Not to be shout in-game, but I think it needs to be published somewhere. Maybe a command like /todaybans that displays a list of the banned chars from that day. As you need proof to ban cheaters... I think it's fair enough that we get proof that those numbers of banning are being achieved. Not that I don't trust what Spam said, but I just cannot see it. I insist on Garden of Beasts and Hot Springs because that's on my level range, and I see the same bots that I constantly report over and over again, just growing stronger. So this kind of visible list would give away information and be a proof that something is being done (even though it has been happening)
Anyway, just some thoughts for Spam to consider and revise. I like this game and I believe in curves... in cycles... so if it's bot's era... it should come to an end.
I would agree to this one. :) Earlier it was not announced because of the protection of persons. But lately (not to often though that i seen) it has been announced ingame. For us legal playing people it would be a blast to see when some of the known botters get banned, so something like todays bans or a database on each server would be great to look for. :D
another question for you, someone already asked it but it was a bit masked:
Heroes are a very important thing in Lineage2, its hard to get, the boni you get are insane, everyone knows the hero.
Why aren't they monitored? Why ain't the petition checked for Hero-bot reports FIRST? On Teon I have seen (and reported) at least 3 heroes botting. And they are still here botting with their glow.
I can understand that you have a lot work to do. But checking the heroes would be 30minutes of a days work, and it would have a !!HUGE!! effect on the community if those perma botters get banned WHILE they are hero. Maybe you could announce that, too.
At least the heroes. Please. Otherwise you could just deactivate the olympiads (and as a legit player, you cant compete anyways, but thats another story.
another question for you, someone already asked it but it was a bit masked:
Heroes are a very important thing in Lineage2, its hard to get, the boni you get are insane, everyone knows the hero.
Why aren't they monitored? Why ain't the petition checked for Hero-bot reports FIRST? On Teon I have seen (and reported) at least 3 heroes botting. And they are still here botting with their glow.
I can understand that you have a lot work to do. But checking the heroes would be 30minutes of a days work, and it would have a !!HUGE!! effect on the community if those perma botters get banned WHILE they are hero. Maybe you could announce that, too.
At least the heroes. Please. Otherwise you could just deactivate the olympiads (and as a legit player, you cant compete anyways, but thats another story.
wbr Nam
Hero status is not hard to get. I know that most heroes have been fed points to gain there status. Ever so often hero shout is telling that a certain toon should get hero status. And most of the time this toon is hero next time.
I agree, but I doesn't matter if it's a hero or a lvl 10 dwarf. If he's botting, he's botting and they all deserve the same treat. Ofc, a hero ban would have a major impact, since it's, by default, hard to get there.
Well, a wave of bots get banned..many cry and give up...some will continue even if they got banned. On Teon i saw less bots..a lot really and i was happy. But now in some spots they appear again and this time with they main chars with tag and all!!! botting with no fear!! I reported them..well and i got the automated answer from ncsoft. I pressed the report button...I saw them at the same day again..but now, never since again. I hope they got banned.
But yeah..some get banned...others appear...We need to live with it that we never can get rid of bots..Only IF ncsoft can create any software or whatever to block that programs to access lineage II.
The World Anti-Doping Agency has started to put an extra effort into checking competition winners for illegal substances. Concentrating on the top level is also common practice in law enforcement to combat organized crime.
When you have limited resources and time this is the most effective way to fight.
You should do the same with the heroes in L2. Keep an extra eye on them and make sure they're not cheating. When botted heroes are banned it is very noticable and will deter people from botting.
have to agree here that having a check in place on if a hero has botted would do a lot for server morale as well makes olympiad a little more fair (no more botted up rarely played classes to take a default hero)..
I will install on my website a blog like application where people can post and send stuff about cheaters.. lets call it "L2 Hall of Shame" or anything similar?
I'll open a topic today about this... but I'll need some help from a small team, to report these violators.
I will install on my website a blog like application where people can post and send stuff about cheaters.. lets call it "L2 Hall of Shame" or anything similar?
I'll open a topic today about this... but I'll need some help from a small team, to report these violators.
I posted the one liner to bring some levity to this thread. Some appreciated it, and I assume you did not.
So here is the skinny…
We ban bots every day. We ban hundreds of bot everyday. Thousands a week. Hundreds of thousands a year. While they may or may not be the bots you have in any one particular screenshot, we are doing our best. Now, my pay is not dependant on bots staying in the game. Some bean counter somewhere might like paying customers, but he does not have his hand on the ban button. I do. I like a fair playing environment. (Believe me I am not saying this one is fair.) So while my fellow Sr. GMs are banning bots, I am here answering their support ticket as they cry about being innocent, and how they were just “using a Nostromo.” “Wha-Wha-Wha.” Eat it Cylon. Your tears taste good.
So we are all in a pickle here. I have to ban all of the bots but not get anyone by mistake, which means I have to put away the napalm and use my rifle. Fair enough. I have not given up in 5 years, and I don’t plan on giving up. I’m going to keep doing this, and grind the bones of bots into cakes until none of us are here any longer.
So while I wait for some brainiac programmer to make the cure for the L2 bot cancer I am going to continue cutting it out with my hatchet. You can help, or get out the way. But please don’t break this thread again with some messed up picture that has been posted 5 times. All of the GMs read these forums while they are banning bots. They know what you are going through and are not ignoring you. They are just working.
Thanks,
~spam
PS it has been a year since my last rant. Sorry for the splash damage.
OK. If you say that you are honestly trying to solve this issue, and that you work hard on it, then I have to take your word for it.
That means, however, that your methods/tools of banning bots are inefficient, impractical, or just not working. Because despite your best efforts, everyone knows there is an issue. So, if you are seriously, honestly trying to get rid of bots, you should be open to some honest discussion about changing the way you handle bots, priorities for which bots to go after first, and the gameguard system within Lineage 2.
I have seen many good suggestions over the years on better solutions than Gameguard.
I have also seen suggestions on which bot groups to go after first for banning. - Simple case, go after the most visible players, as when you ban them players notice it and are happy. That includes banning trains of botting heroes on Sayha.
Secondly, if players cannot xp in a catacomb because there are trains full of players such as ijjijiji jjijijiiij ijijiiiij jijiijij or lkljllkj jkjlklkj etc, no legitimate player is naming their toons that, and given when they are in a group of 8 others, you need to 3 day ban them and clear out that catacomb so the regular players can actually xp.
Anyways, I am sure you would have dozens, if not hundreds of people who would assist the GMs in banning bots, but alas, we are just players after all. I realize I'm probably on the blacklist for being disruptive already, but, please don't let that dissuade you from taking into account suggestions that other users may have (i.e. Krissa).
I'm tired of saying this over and over again: if you kill the bots you kill the profit.
They will never, ever, ever, ever do something about the bots, they will keep their numbers in an acceptable margin (is not hard to keep a percentage of all the alive and "less alive players)..If they have way to many complains or if they see that less and less ppl will log in they will do a clean up..but that it is just to calm the masses. It has always been this way and it will stay like this forever. Even when my dog keeps barking and starts bothering me me, i throw him a toy or a biscuit and he chills down. It's kind of the same principal here.
You would have to be a child to believe that such a big company can't fix the problem of the bots or that they can't find the ppl to do that.
All they are doing is trying to keep you all satisfied (farmers included) through different methods a picture of a certain gm here, a post of someone who saw bots vanishing in thin air a message posted by a gm sustaining that he is so tired banning bots and that he has his own list to ban them...but deceiving people is so easy, you can all do it. The lack of profs is the most frustrating thing.
How come the pirate server ban the bots upon login, and don't tell me that they don't make updates for the pirate servers cause there's no profit, cause that's just plain wrong as the official server have an adena market and an account market so do the pirate servers (only some, the most populated) and yes there are pirate servers who have more players than the official ones do (excluding here the bot population). But i guess it's a mystery on how they do it or what black magic they use to ban those cheaters or it must be that they have more intelligent or a much extended budget on their hand.
All you can do is to find a way to play it (legit or not) get it out of your system and move forward. Give them the money and play. It's simple and that's how things would supposed to work.
Another solution would be to sue them, but not by everyone, but by someone with money and influence and then you will see how things are. After all they are providing a service that doesn't work they are selling a defective product and that is more like a scam than a legit business.
Until then we are just players playing a game and being played by it and it's masters.
I'm tired of saying this over and over again: if you kill the bots you kill the profit.
You are wrong.
The current revenue of NC West L2 is ridiculously small for a market of 1+ billion of potential subscribers. The profits from it are close to irrelevant. However, keeping a game dominated by cheaters creates a bad publicity for NCsoft on the NC West market, making them lose the potential sales not only for L2, but also for other Seoul studio games coming to the market later.
The current revenue of NC West L2 is ridiculously small for a market of 1+ billion of potential subscribers. The profits from it are close to irrelevant. However, keeping a game dominated by cheaters creates a bad publicity for NCsoft on the NC West market, making them lose the potential sales not only for L2, but also for other Seoul studio games coming to the market later.
so many people report bot player because the other guy is in a clan war (hello to conflict of interest) with them, while themselves are using bot to automatic log out when someone come close to them. How can we report people when they log out sooner than we can click their name :-/
Last I checked, you couldn't report someone you are at war with, unless that has changed.
I will install on my website a blog like application where people can post and send stuff about cheaters.. lets call it "L2 Hall of Shame" or anything similar?
I'll open a topic today about this... but I'll need some help from a small team, to report these violators.
Who's up for this?
You really have to watch out for who you get if you decide to do this...Obviously if I am in clan X, I'm going to report to you only botters I see in enemy clan Y which is going to skew what you are trying to do. Getting somebody who will be totally impartial will be hard to do.
OK. If you say that you are honestly trying to solve this issue, and that you work hard on it, then I have to take your word for it.
That means, however, that your methods/tools of banning bots are inefficient, impractical, or just not working. Because despite your best efforts, everyone knows there is an issue. So, if you are seriously, honestly trying to get rid of bots, you should be open to some honest discussion about changing the way you handle bots, priorities for which bots to go after first, and the gameguard system within Lineage 2.
I have seen many good suggestions over the years on better solutions than Gameguard.
I have also seen suggestions on which bot groups to go after first for banning. - Simple case, go after the most visible players, as when you ban them players notice it and are happy. That includes banning trains of botting heroes on Sayha.
Secondly, if players cannot xp in a catacomb because there are trains full of players such as ijjijiji jjijijiiij ijijiiiij jijiijij or lkljllkj jkjlklkj etc, no legitimate player is naming their toons that, and given when they are in a group of 8 others, you need to 3 day ban them and clear out that catacomb so the regular players can actually xp.
Anyways, I am sure you would have dozens, if not hundreds of people who would assist the GMs in banning bots, but alas, we are just players after all. I realize I'm probably on the blacklist for being disruptive already, but, please don't let that dissuade you from taking into account suggestions that other users may have (i.e. Krissa).
Thanks ^^
If people honestly think that the GM's can ban every bot, on every server... Good Luck. It won't happen, the reality of what happens, and what's already working honestly is you ban enough, to the point that people start worrying, and they start seeing that the risk is a lot higher than the reward.
GM's will never be able to ban all the bots, not even close. The best thing they could do, is instill a fear that people debate whether it is even worth to bot anymore, and even though the numbers they actual ban in relation to the bots is small, the impact is far greater than most will ever see.
It's the fear of the GM's actually watching that scares people from botting, but for those who think a GM can ban everything, they have pretty unrealistic, and stupid assumptions of what GM could and should do.
If people honestly think that the GM's can ban every bot, on every server... Good Luck. It won't happen, the reality of what happens, and what's already working honestly is you ban enough, to the point that people start worrying, and they start seeing that the risk is a lot higher than the reward.
GM's will never be able to ban all the bots, not even close. The best thing they could do, is instill a fear that people debate whether it is even worth to bot anymore, and even though the numbers they actual ban in relation to the bots is small, the impact is far greater than most will ever see.
It's the fear of the GM's actually watching that scares people from botting, but for those who think a GM can ban everything, they have pretty unrealistic, and stupid assumptions of what GM could and should do.
Thanks! That is exactly what I mean. I don't expect them to ban everyone, but I want there to be fear installed in those people, especially the heroes that botted their way up.
I want ppl to fear that if they can attain hero status, there is a good possibility their account will be watched and if they are botting, they are going to get banned.
If you need community help for writing (and calibrating) reliable detectors, it can be organized.
GAHHH, such a terrible approach. You don't automate bot detection by monitoring usage logs and behavior patterns, that's incredibly complex and prone to error, not to mention taking a significant effort to implement. You automate bot detection by constant changes to the client/server communication protocol that only a legitimate client knows how to adjust with. Oh, and quit storing everything security related in .dat files and obfuscate some of the core .exe's so they don't just decompile it in 10 minutes and update the bots.
All you need is a couple hours where the bots are running with an outdated protocol version and you can tag every single one of them for automated bannings. Here's just one example of how this could work, though there are many many variations.
In the next chronicle patch, add a bunch of new communication protocol options for very basic behavior such as movement that the bots have to do themselves, but leave them inactive. Have the client also able to accept a new server command to switch protocols on the fly, I'm sure there are some unused flags in messages already being sent clientside so you don't tip off the bots with an entirely new message type. I assume with the chronicle patch we force everyone to update, or you could do so if you wanted, so every L2 client has this patch or else it won't be able to log in.
At some point, you start sending out commands for every client to switch to a new protocol. Legitimate clients switch, bots can't because they don't know what they're being asked to do, or even realize they're being asked to do something different. The next day bots are all updated to correctly respond to the new protocol, but you've already tagged and banned every single one of them that didn't switch the first time. Repeat as needed or until bots find all the new protocols and how to respond to them. Then repeat the whole process or a variant with the next patch.
There are a hundred variations on the above system and it's used right now in various applications, not necessarily for bot detection but in any sort of application where you need to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate clients connected to a central server. Obviously there are specifics of L2 that I don't have access to and the approach has to be adjusted based on those, but this is the general technical approach to solving the bot problem that doesn't take a "genius" programmer or some new "wizbang" app. It's simple and straightforward, anyone with a little networking experience should have no trouble implementing it in a week or two and it can guarantee no false positives.
GM's putting some fear into ppl who use bot will help but not solve the problem.
The problem is by ppl who have afk trains in places like HB. Having 83+ lvl trains / chars dominating epics ect and sell adena/epics/accounts for R/L currency. They dont care about GM's. They make 100's US$ if not 1000's US$ a month just by selling ingame items and accounts.
As long as the L2 community allow those ppl to continue their "job" (meaning buying adena's/accounts/epics with R/L currency) notthing will change.
GAHHH, such a terrible approach. You don't automate bot detection by monitoring usage logs and behavior patterns, that's incredibly complex and prone to error, not to mention taking a significant effort to implement. You automate bot detection by constant changes to the client/server communication protocol that only a legitimate client knows how to adjust with.
That requires Korean developers activity (so, not going to happen soon), is prone to false positives due to unupdated clients (say, those that were disconnected during the server maintenance, and then re-connected back without quitting the client and running the updater), and (I suspect) is not really effective against IG bots.
The current revenue of NC West L2 is ridiculously small for a market of 1+ billion of potential subscribers. The profits from it are close to irrelevant. However, keeping a game dominated by cheaters creates a bad publicity for NCsoft on the NC West market, making them lose the potential sales not only for L2, but also for other Seoul studio games coming to the market later.
Exactly +1, look at the games of nc that failed after L2 in a row: TabulaRasa, AutoAssault and now aion !!! Aion isnt even released and it has the worst reputation ever, youtube is full of videos showing Aion lvling locations crowded with bots, even every mobs camped by one.
Loosing the reputation is the worst thing that can happen to a company - for my part, although I will be playing Lineage 2 till the end, I will never try another NC game again, so when i stop Lineage 2 (espicially when I do it cause of the cheating in game) I will turn my back to NCwest for ever.
Exactly +1, look at the games of nc that failed after L2 in a row: TabulaRasa, AutoAssault and now aion !!! Aion isnt even released and it has the worst reputation ever, youtube is full of videos showing Aion lvling locations crowded with bots, even every mobs camped by one.
Loosing the reputation is the worst thing that can happen to a company - for my part, although I will be playing Lineage 2 till the end, I will never try another NC game again, so when i stop Lineage 2 (espicially when I do it cause of the cheating in game) I will turn my back to NCwest for ever.
wbr Nam
Which mmorpg isnt "growded" with bots? even WoW is full of them and chinese power lvlers and farmers.
Which mmorpg isnt "growded" with bots? even WoW is full of them and chinese power lvlers and farmers.
There is a difference between "crowded with" and "dominated by".
That requires Korean developers activity (so, not going to happen soon), is prone to false positives due to unupdated clients (say, those that were disconnected during the server maintenance, and then re-connected back without quitting the client and running the updater), and (I suspect) is not really effective against IG bots.
I explained away the false positives, it's very easy to make sure people update. Just because they don't make you update on a weekly basis doesn't mean they can't make you update, even if it's just once for a new chronicle. Heck, they forced everyone to update just today.
It's perfectly effective against IG bots. The IG bots are still sending their own packets to the servers, unless you write one which actually works by simulating mouse and keyboard events. Of course, that would require the L2 client still run in the foreground at all times, be terribly inaccurate and a hell of a lot of work compared to copying exactly what they already have for OOG bots. I guess you could also create an IG bot that literally hacked L2.exe and turned it into a bot program, perhaps that would be the next step if they actually stopped bots in their current form.
That Korean developers won't actually do it is a valid point. But neither should they invest 10x the resources into an attempt to identify bots through pattern recognition. This is the technological solution to bots, variations of it are running in commercial applications right now and working just fine. I understand they'll never implement it, but it bothers me especially when Spam comes on here and pretends like they can't do anything because it would take a genius programmer to implement a trivial solution discovered years ago.
That Korean developers won't actually do it is a valid point. But neither should they invest 10x the resources into an attempt to identify bots through pattern recognition.
I don't expect Korean developers to invest into it. It can be done locally, even by volunteers.
That Korean developers won't actually do it is a valid point. But neither should they invest 10x the resources into an attempt to identify bots through pattern recognition. This is the technological solution to bots, variations of it are running in commercial applications right now and working just fine. I understand they'll never implement it, but it bothers me especially when Spam comes on here and pretends like they can't do anything because it would take a genius programmer to implement a trivial solution discovered years ago.
I liked your post/suggestion except that I'd have to disagree about your take on spam's role. Because he manages the in-game 'police' does not mean that he has any control, nor for that matter any conception, as to what technical means are available to detect 3rd party programs. I'm willing to bet he gets a list of added commands and tools and simply tries to draw up policies for their implementation. So depending on his level of technical expertise he might really view it as wizbang :cool:
TiredOrcI'm tired of saying this over and over again: if you kill the bots you kill the profit.
As a marketing director... I can tell you that if a company things this way... they are loosing more profit that they can foresee. I think that if a good bot-free systems comes around, I could make the official servers of L2 the most legit populated mmorpg around... But ofc... I don't work for NC ^^
Krissa, it would probably need to be built-in to the server to really have access to the data to properly try to do the job. I doubt it keeps logs of every skill use, every movement request, heck every packet received from clients. That's the kind of information you would need in order to implement some form of heuristic bot detection. At a minimum the Korean devs would need to implement some API's so you could access all the data you might want, but trying to process that much would severely lag the servers. You'd need some decent filters on it, also implemented in the server, to cut down the amount of data you're looking at. At that point some of the heuristics could be added by anyone, but it's still going to require a decent bit of work by the Korean devs to make it possible.
Retribution, you're right, it may not have anything to do with Spam. At some point a technical person needs to have brought up these approaches so that those making policies are aware of them as options. If they never did so, then Spam may just not be aware of it. I guess the disappointment should more properly be directed at NC as a whole, someone there is capable of doing this and they've chosen not to for whatever reason.
Well to make a point, I have not botted a single second my entire time in L2 but thats why i am still not S grade.
I have personely seen players go from creating a new char to A grade in a lil over a week.
I have personelly been invited to go to the dark side, by players that were 10-20 lvls lower then me in the past and that are now HIGH S GRADE.
I have seen and Screen shotted a player shouting in giran about some player killing his bot train, how blantant is that, yes i petitioned about it and got the same old reply.
So SPAM, here is one for u,
Ban them, not just the char but the whole **** acct.
The GM`s in this game are turning into the biggest CARE BEARS i have ever seen, ohh we have to have definete proof someone was botting, where did that ruling come from, korea, hell their one of the largest bot programming areas in the world. Half the adena seller companies are from korea, what does that say.
I have been a player since before online games came into being. Many other games i have played had MASSIVE weekly ban list, largest i ever saw was in 2moons it consisted of close to a 1000 accts banned.
You cannot bot around a set of human eyes, but proof u can is the programming war, bot programmers and game programmers are currently playing.
Ban them all and let death sort them out.
I fully expect to get some neg rep from this, but guess what i don`t care..............................
Why NCSoft dont make a program like GG which blocks those kinda programs? to expensive? I mean, games get always better and better protected to pirate copys and also software does get well protected against that. Why ncsoft isnt improving GG or making a better program to protect LineageII from bots??
I know you claim you do not want reversals so you do very careful investigating to make sure someone is botting. However, in order to combat the growing problem which has caused many to quit the game recently I believe you should step up your efforts and not take hours or days per toon to make 100% sure. NCSoft has already given itself sa***aurds against liability for inaccurate bannings. I personally have quit for months on multiple occasions for GMs lack of caring. When I'm paying for 3 accounts monthly I should be able to get a single response which is not an automated f5 from a GM in which they refuse to even read my submission. Here are simply a few provisions which state you have the right to ban somenoe without 100% proof while remaining free from liability from a potential lawsuit.
Taken from the rules of conduct
1. "While playing Lineage II, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players." Hmm, everyone has violated this in some sense if they have ever come into someone else's hunting area or PKed them.
10. "You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of buying, selling, trading, sharing, or transferring access to any Lineage II account." If the character has ever account shared you can ban them.
EULA NCSoft's right to terminate an account
NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of Lineage II as described in the Rules of Conduct. Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account for the balance of any prepaid period without any refund.
NCSoft grants a license to use their software
3. LICENSE TO USE
Subject to the terms of this Agreement, NC Interactive grants to you, for your personal use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Service, and a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Software in connection with the Service, for a duration as defined in Section 5 for so long as you maintain an authorized and fully-paid Account.
NCSoft can ban an account for reasons other than botting and adena buying/selling. You have no rights to sue to get your account back. They are in complete control of their license to use the software and reserve the right to ban accounts for any reason whatsoever.
Take Sayha for instance... it is well known that the top clan on that server bots and has multiple 85/84 characters which are never out of game. There are even screenshots floating around which shows 5 full bot trains in a command channel where all of the arrows/other mats they don't want are simply laying on the ground but everything else is picked up. In NCSoft's terms it also states that you are not allowed to bot or gain an unfair advantage from association with bots. It can be proved easily that many of these characters are botters. Spam, you could use that other term or any other language in the rules of conduct/EULA to ban the entire clan for the advantages they have gained from the association with bots.
It is time to take action now before lineage 2 completely dies. Due to the poor support up until this time I cannot ever envision playing another NCSoft game. True, it appears the GMs are finally starting to care and banning bots. This is years late in my opinion. Just starting to do mass bans in a game that's 5 years old?
I believe you should step up your efforts and not take hours or days per toon to make 100% sure.
"The average time to identify, log, and ban a single account for blatant cheating is 3 minutes" -Spam
?? Are you really serious ?? 3 minutes is too much time to observe for you? If you were observed for 30 seconds and a GM though you MIGHT be a bot, you would be ok with getting banned and have to fight to prove you are innocent?
You can help, or get out the way. But please don’t break this thread again with some messed up picture that has been posted 5 times.
I liked this.
Please let us know how can we help you.
I understand you can't know every bot that is infesting the server so you need our help.
Tell us how can we help you.
Is the "bot button" enough? (It doesn't seem to do much imo, since I keep pressing it everyday for the same bot group but it is still there every day and night).
"The average time to identify, log, and ban a single account for blatant cheating is 3 minutes" -Spam
?? Are you really serious ?? 3 minutes is too much time to observe for you? If you were observed for 30 seconds and a GM though you MIGHT be a bot, you would be ok with getting banned and have to fight to prove you are innocent?
From my years of dealing with support I find it hard to believe it takes them 3 minutes or less.
I just have 1 suggestion,
make a daily treep arround Catacumbs,
Forseken Plains, or IoP, from time to time (not often) Cruma Tower or ToI.
I can admit i meet few times bots with full room of loot :)
ofcourse bot reported and loot taken ;p
But it is not about takin loot, we just want to play with ppl not machnies.
Yesterday i was in Cata of Witch with some friends,
i can tell it is very difficult to find a room to exp couse all 3/4 first big rooms ware taken by bots.
I wrote a petition to GM.Harris, of course he thanked me to report, and asked to write the nicks, so i open another petition with nicks.
And... nothing has change within an hour.
later on we found another pt of bots, and man in this pt,
he just left us the room when we kindly asked.
GM's i have high respect to and to your job,
but i think that bots are major problem in this game.
i got scared after latest banns :D
success! that was what you said you wanted.
Bad things is that i am not bot nor using any other program to play for me. What if i got to party with someone using bot just because i was searching for party (they don't say - bot group lf players...)? what if my client accidentally on check crashed and that is supposed to be walkers log out on GM showing (or something like that), what if i was passing bot group by the time they were banning it... what if i were resting there because its safe spot while i went afk to toilet... as Spam said they do checks etc, but what if i just happen to be in a wrong place at a wrong time... and all my efforts to get a place in this world will burn with red letters on account status. i can never know where i break EULA by accident, because i don't read it.... as most of us... yes its my fault, i'm not complaining about that. I read it even... still feeling unsafe. ****, L2 is brain virus :D
i got scared after latest banns :D
success! that was what you said you wanted.
Bad things is that i am not bot nor using any other program to play for me. What if i got to party with someone using bot just because i was searching for party (they don't say - bot group lf players...)? what if my client accidentally on check crashed and that is supposed to be walkers log out on GM showing (or something like that), what if i was passing bot group by the time they were banning it... what if i were resting there because its safe spot while i went afk to toilet... as Spam said they do checks etc, but what if i just happen to be in a wrong place at a wrong time... and all my efforts to get a place in this world will burn with red letters on account status. i can never know where i break EULA by accident, because i don't read it.... as most of us... yes its my fault, i'm not complaining about that. I read it even... still feeling unsafe. ****, L2 is brain virus :D
you're reasoning is weak, people will tell you where is your intuition to detect a bot user? you can tell dont tell me you're that clueless what is going on in that group when you can spot a bot. of course 1 use running a bot on himself in that group where everyone else is not, i dont think you will ever get caught being with that bot guy. but eventually you will find out and kick out of the group he is doesnt reply. but that is unlikely.
so i dont know why you even bring that up to prove a point when you should know what you should do in those case. dont tell me you're in a group of 9 with a 7 bot toons and you still go grinding with them?
sounds like you knew it and still continuing with them taking the risk, glad you got banned LOL
Flyfly... it's really OBVIOUS when you party with a botter... Last week I was in a party and saw one sws in it botting... I openly told him to stop the software or else I will kick him from the party. He pm'd me and told me "Ok i will stop"... Ofc I still reported him. I don't care if he's in my party at that time, he could get us in trouble. he stopped for a while and then turned it on again. Kicked him off party and I don't know anything about him.
You cannot be at the wrong place or time if you know what you are doing. It's pretty obvious to observe who's cheating in a party. In this case, the cheater was targetting the closest mob (not the one our tank, who was the MA, was targeting) and then run back and forth... Other behaviors, depending on class, can tell you easily who's using ilegal software.
Anyway... GM's know exactly who uses automating software, and who doesn't. If you are in a party with a botter ofc give a suspicious alter for them, but don't be afraid, if you don't bot you will not get banned. :) Look for good parties :D Cya!
Edit... uhmmm Dorkavenger was typing at same time as me ^^... you got banned already flyfly?? You cannot get banned unless you are cheating my friend... I'm sorry. Is being in a party of bots cheating too?... well, I will say it is. Put yourself in autofollow while botters do all the job is cheating too.
Well to make a point, I have not botted a single second my entire time in L2 but thats why i am still not S grade.
I have personely seen players go from creating a new char to A grade in a lil over a week.
I have personelly been invited to go to the dark side, by players that were 10-20 lvls lower then me in the past and that are now HIGH S GRADE.
I have seen and Screen shotted a player shouting in giran about some player killing his bot train, how blantant is that, yes i petitioned about it and got the same old reply.
So SPAM, here is one for u,
Ban them, not just the char but the whole **** acct.
The GM`s in this game are turning into the biggest CARE BEARS i have ever seen, ohh we have to have definete proof someone was botting, where did that ruling come from, korea, hell their one of the largest bot programming areas in the world. Half the adena seller companies are from korea, what does that say.
I have been a player since before online games came into being. Many other games i have played had MASSIVE weekly ban list, largest i ever saw was in 2moons it consisted of close to a 1000 accts banned.
You cannot bot around a set of human eyes, but proof u can is the programming war, bot programmers and game programmers are currently playing.
Ban them all and let death sort them out.
I fully expect to get some neg rep from this, but guess what i don`t care..............................
BUT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN SPAM PROBABLY DONT HAVE THE POWER TO BAN!!! LIFE ISNT SIMPLE LIFE YOU WOULD THINK. SO DONT ACT LIKE YOU'RE ALL COOL AND *****
Beachhunter... Have you read all other posts about this? I suggest you read I opened that is called "Serious matter..." Spam gave a lot of answers to this, and immediately after this a ban wave went on... The server is way cleaner than before, and this is great. GM's are doing a far more noticeable job and you should thank them for the service they make, even if it's their job.
One thing... GM's will never ban immediately just because you make a petition or a report... but they WILL ban the botters. I invite you again to read that thread if you want to understand GM's reasoning and actions a little bit better.
Btw... I have played for over a year now and I'm not S grade either... I've seen a lot of ppl reaching S grade before me... and you know what?.... THEY ARE BANNED. So that makes me feel I chose the right path. ^^
Beachhunter... Have you read all other posts about this? I suggest you read I opened that is called "Serious matter..." Spam gave a lot of answers to this, and immediately after this a ban wave went on... The server is way cleaner than before, and this is great. GM's are doing a far more noticeable job and you should thank them for the service they make, even if it's their job.
One thing... GM's will never ban immediately just because you make a petition or a report... but they WILL ban the botters. I invite you again to read that thread if you want to understand GM's reasoning and actions a little bit better.
Btw... I have played for over a year now and I'm not S grade either... I've seen a lot of ppl reaching S grade before me... and you know what?.... THEY ARE BANNED. So that makes me feel I chose the right path. ^^
Cya laterz!!
LOLOL not only that, maybe they are already S80 with OE weps running around HB and are banned! xD
Flyfly... it's really OBVIOUS when you party with a botter... <...>
Anyway... GM's know exactly who uses automating software, and who doesn't. If you are in a party with a botter ofc give a suspicious alter for them, but don't be afraid, if you don't bot you will not get banned. :) <...>
my friend was in party with boted pp, i wasn't there i don't know the details and if he noticed pp is on bot. later that night all that pt got banned. just because pp was on bot. here again i don't know all the details. but that actually made me furious.... if i could know law more, i'm sure there is no such rule in EULA that tells you will be banned if anyone in party is using bot. I was ready to send NC to court. i never heard you can be banned for that, and friend told that GMs sounded really angry and don't even discussed this when he asked why he was banned when he wasn't boting. i don't know maybe he wasn't polite with GMs also. but still...
and about noticing when someone is bot and when not.... i know many cases, when bot owner sit near pc and chat with friends in pt, but he don't control the char, so he is bot, and if its suport you will hardly notice it.
p.s. sitting afk in party while your friends are exping is cheating also (not fair to them :P), beeing killed by bot while fighting for spot is cheat also, and even if you kill him after he kill you twice is cheating also, as he don't actually care his exp.. and than i may continue about unfair classes in l2 and so on :D life in l2 is cheat itself :D
*hypnosis* you don't like this game, you don't like this game *hypnosis over* crap, i still like it :D
and yes, i got all my way up to nobles with those bots around, without vitality , herbs (because herb spots are all botted), in a spots that bots don't go and i feel great for that, because for me as tank (aka most unneeded class in l2), i learned to survive solo, got a chance to explore my char and reach my goals no matter what troubles are on the way. that is personal development and far away from what bots can understand... and after all this i am not ready to loose my char now...
I totally understand you get hundreds of these emails a day, but why dont you work on fixing the chinese xingxang chingchong ***holes who bot in this game and sell adena and spam pm's ingame before you ban the players who actually play this game.
paraphrased: "lord make me chaste...but make everyone else chaste first!"
I totally understand you get hundreds of these emails a day, but why dont you work on fixing the chinese xingxang chingchong ***holes who bot in this game and sell adena and spam pm's ingame before you ban the players who actually play this game.
You must be the AmazingNieveMan if you think the Sell Adena spamers are chinese.
When they first started you out could barely understand them but after a while they just talked normal...guess it was too much work...I'm afraid the "sky" people are from NA.
If you notice quite a few Botters can't seem to talk English very well on their first posts but then they get better...so much so that you can't tell the difference ;)