This goes specially for gms... I do whatever you ask me in support messages. I keep reporting suspicious bots as I go, and it seems like you just don't care. I know you can't do something about EVERY bot... but if you just visit Garden of Beasts you will find a lot of -even clan tagged- bots there. It's just one nasty place. Go ahead, one Sunday to gob and see it for urself. The worst thing is that you know that place is infested, and what is it good to report bots for, if you do nothing? Don't want to make a mistake? just do whatever proof you have to do and they will fail.
Garden of beasts is the best 70-76 solo spot for melees, but ppl is abusing now, it's not fair that the single 1 or 2 hours of play is just overcrowded 24/7 just because GM's don't do their job there. GM Spam told also that is not good to kill bots either... So I really don't know what else I can do to make you go there and ban those cheaters. Killin botters= no good... reporting with button = no good... reporting with /gm = even more useless... crying in forum? = I hope this might wake you up a little... Honestly, this is bothering now.
Well i agree with this. The gms are doing a better job about banning bots ect. BUT there are some serious spots which should get much more attention since is a very popular place for bots. Bot places should get much more times checked by gms than any other.
Because they spam always difrent IP's. Just like they create multi " hsdfgdf" chars to spam it in game. You ban one, others will rise and the game begins from the beginning.
This goes specially for gms... I do whatever you ask me in support messages. I keep reporting suspicious bots as I go, and it seems like you just don't care. I know you can't do something about EVERY bot... but if you just visit Garden of Beasts you will find a lot of -even clan tagged- bots there. It's just one nasty place. Go ahead, one Sunday to gob and see it for urself. The worst thing is that you know that place is infested, and what is it good to report bots for, if you do nothing? Don't want to make a mistake? just do whatever proof you have to do and they will fail.
Garden of beasts is the best 70-76 solo spot for melees, but ppl is abusing now, it's not fair that the single 1 or 2 hours of play is just overcrowded 24/7 just because GM's don't do their job there. GM Spam told also that is not good to kill bots either... So I really don't know what else I can do to make you go there and ban those cheaters. Killin botters= no good... reporting with button = no good... reporting with /gm = even more useless... crying in forum? = I hope this might wake you up a little... Honestly, this is bothering now.
Come on take a look over there. I insist.
Regards...
+1 and also they should check Varka/Ketra/IoP for sure those are some of the most botted places....GoB is definately #1...
I don't see why players should ever need to report a bot. The bots are obvious. If GMs actually came to the servers then they would see them, just like every single other person that logs into the game.
Also, perhaps consider getting GMs from the states to visit euro servers during the early hours (1am to 5am) and maybe so MANY players would not activate afk xp mode before going to bed.
Yeah these threads are getting a bit excessive. I generally just ignore them now. But at least this thread is targetted to a certain area and not just "theres to many bots!" This thread points out theres to many bots in an particular area. Yeah there are a few areas that need to be targetted.
There have been many threads about this situation already...
You know how NCSoft could make these disappear? They actually start caring about their game and banning bots at a faster pace than one bot group every 3 months. Shocking concept I know...
Yeah Garden of Beasts is a tough place to level due to the bots. It's very doable though. Just grit your teeth and get it done. 70 to 76 goes by fast enough there. Just kill all the mobs. Steal mobs from the bots using the 'aggro tricks', and level up a level 50 ish dagger to perma-red kill the aggressive bots.
Waiting for NC to do stuff is like spending your life waiting for the next meteor to strike.
or shut down all the servers until all the bots are banned... oh wait...
yet again another thread...yes it blows that there are bots in the good areas, and the GM team is WAY UNDERSTAFFED - but complaining here does not good - call NCK headquarters and complain to them - tell them to budget more money for GM's at NCNA and to get some money back from Richard "I pwned you for $30M" Garroitt.
I notice they have a key word filtering for the chat channels. Why can't they use something like this to block certain words, like the address for these adena sites, so we don't have to see them.
im sure NC or the GMs knows. And yes NC do ban them. but not all. imo...its all abt dollar.
i think of it this way...
eg. the server has a population of say...60% to 70% botters, maybe more (botting players+farmers as majority), it wouldnt be wise to nerf NC's own income by banning all the botters, but players maybe possible bcuz they will ebay botted toons from ready made by farmers then continue from there again.
and...if NC bans players using bots, they may most likely have to answer to them y they dont ban farmers? so they prolly ignore botters as long as no one complaints.
If someone do complain, they prolly go by some sort of statistic as in..how many times this botting grp has been reported n just ban them for "a show that we uphold our EULA"
For farmers, even if NC mass ban them, they will return regardless.
Note: i m saying this not bcuz i m encouraging u to bot. it is just my opinion. plus i m not a supporter for botting anyway.
Existence of farmers...
well farmers exist as long as players r there. Players who cant stand the hassle of going thru all the troubles of lvling or obtaining items/adrena they wanted.
So, when there are no players, farmers will not be there as well n this will cuz the server to close down permanently.
IMO for NC to get rid of farmers, which i know may never be agreed by some/many/all...
1) legalise botting / make lvling super easy
2) host ur own powerlvling
3) provide purchase of items online via own website
4) sell ur own adrena
from wat i know, all these 4 options are available in other online games like 9 dragons, Carbal, etc just to name a couple.
4 yrs ago, i came across a farmer supporter who told me this..
"if it isnt for the existence of farmers, we wont be able to get B grades this fast"
i was a lvl 45 spellsinger lvling in dragon valley back then...
First:
I never said that you should not kill bots. Didn't say it. You may PK who ever you wish. In a post a while back a customer posted screen shots of a GM. I mentioned the GM went visible to say hi to a customer that PKing bots that the GM just happened to be testing. I said it made his job harder at that exact second. I did not say anything about it being bad to kill any bot.
Second:
We hunt and remove bots all day every day. Hundreds a day, and thousands a week. This chit chat about us removing a bot party every 3 months is rubbish.
Yes I know there are bots everywhere. That’s what makes it so easy to ban hundreds of accounts A DAY. I wish I could remove the bots as you report them. I really do. But I would like you to imagine that when report a bot that there are 20 other people reporting bots a that same exact moment. If the GM was to act on your report right then, the other 20 would wait. One of those 20 might even come to the forums and talk about how their area they are hunting in is infested and the GMs do nothing about it.
Believe it or not the GMs are on your side. They work day and night to remove this crap from the servers.
Spam, don't get mad, I did not open this thread to botter you, or any other GM, believe me. It is just that banning 100 players a day must have been done in other areas rather than the mentioned in this post, and the job must be balanced. Do you attend to check on bots only on report? or do you and your staff go around visiting areas to clean? The banning refers to Teon? or to all servers? (I forgot to tell I was talking about Teon)... this are important matters. Maybe you put too much effort on other areas/servers... or you pass by some reports because you get more of another player, I dunno... the fact is that is more noticeable for us seeing that no bot was banned in those areas than the facts you tell us when you say hundreds of bots are banned daily. I'm telling you, the moment players see results, the moment this type of posts will vanish.
Yesterday I had an ecounter with a player that botted his way up and then joined a big clan... and then he started with his "spot taken" ****... and he called us botters!! me and my party... I think that's not fair. I reported that guy every day as he grew stronger in Garden of beasts and yet I'm sure you didn't check on him (ofc he's another n00b-dagger like 1000 around there)... You see the point now? As time goes by I feel more and more ignored... I can't help it Spam... it's just the way it is... but you can.
Jus to end this post, I'd like to clarify something... if pking bots make the GM's job harder... then in conclusion... it's more bad than good, isn't it? that's why I said that killling bots is bad, at least Why do I have to get karma for killing a cheater??... if reporting wihtout killing is already hard... wel, you do the math.
Again, I'm not posting this to bother... but to make you see that ,even if you are doing a great effort, you are missing some important things, and maybe you need to request for more gm's to help you up, or change your system. Cya laterz.
While you might not perceive any activity, I can report that I see a change on Sayha.
I go to lots of different areas (I'm a lowbie toon addict) and I see spots that were botted now empty. They stay empty for about 48 hours and there is a new team there, but for 2 glorious days there is a spot for me!
In those cases, I can safely assume that the bots were "=spaminated=".
The other case is that some of the more popular areas for human based players seem to have less bots these days as well (Varka has been somewhat clear for a few days, so I will stop calling it "Botka"). I attribute these changes to a certain Amazing clan leaving Sayha soon, which makes botting for adena/quest items not really worth it. Better to move/restart the trains on the new server.
Phoenix peeps, have you seen an upswing in your bot problems yet?
I never say that I don't notice anything. I actually notice the server (Teon) Light to Normal in schedules that are usually Heavy populated. I congratulate GM's for that labout. However, spots like Garden of Beast and HotSprings which are overcrowded with bots, being the first one one of the best probably the best) spot 7x-76 for Melee being ridiculous abused by botters. Some of them were severely reported and now are already leveling in Varkas doing the quests. I find that intolerable, that's all.
Hearing the GM said that they keep working to leave bots out of the game give me more hopes to keep playing the game. I had many good friends that left the game because bots. Most of them were casual players that will have certain couple of hours to spend with us and most of the leveling areas were saturated by bots. They eventually got tired of it and quit the game.
Today was looking for CW outside the goddar and I was shocked what i saw :eek: Every single mob EVERY SINGLE MOB was alive. Man I never saw that place like this :D After that I've read that GMShark cleaning Varka's :) Actually atm I'm pretty happy with situation on teon. Places like Varka was totally boted but atm you can find pretty good dua spots there :)
Believe it or not the GMs are on your side. They work day and night to remove this crap from the servers.
The problem simply is that there are many well-known botters in the large clans who seem to be immune to GM power. Yes, the random kwjerh and dfg878d bots probably get banned eventually, and I see silenos and high lvl catas pretty empty of bots every now and then (though most of the time it is hard to find a spot at varka silenos where the bots do not outnumber the mobs).
But if there are "famous" botters which are known to everybody on the server and which you see botting every day for now YEARS (you see them botting up one subclass after the other with the same buffers on autofollow and yes, it IS botting when you can play "mob pingpong" with them by targetting the mobs they are running to) and if you report them every time you find them and they never get banned - something is seriously wrong.
These guys must have been reported so often, if you somewhere have a counter in your database which shows how often a player has been reported as a bot, there really should be alarm signals going off by now. Can't you prioritize some reports? For example, if a player has been reported x number of times and another report comes in, have somebody check on that guy RIGHT NOW instead of putting that report at the end of the queue and then checking him six hours later when the player already came back to his computer and is now pvping with his ill-gotten lvl 84 toon?
I also seriously do not understand how much "proof" you need to ban somebody. If a toon is obviously not played by a live player (e.g. you can play "mob ping pong"with him) - how much more proof do you need? Do the ban decisions have to be signed off by some senior NCSoft guy in Korea, or why does it take so long?
Second:
We hunt and remove bots all day every day. Hundreds a day, and thousands a week. This chit chat about us removing a bot party every 3 months is rubbish.
Yes I know there are bots everywhere. That’s what makes it so easy to ban hundreds of accounts A DAY. I wish I could remove the bots as you report them. I really do. But I would like you to imagine that when report a bot that there are 20 other people reporting bots a that same exact moment. If the GM was to act on your report right then, the other 20 would wait. One of those 20 might even come to the forums and talk about how their area they are hunting in is infested and the GMs do nothing about it.
You know then you must do more, MUCH more.
I mean, come on, you think (legit) people actually care about how many bots your ban every day?
The point is to see, at last, after years an actual outcome in favor to legit people.
What if u ban thousands bots and they are still there. If they coming back means that farmers have a profit and they dont care about their lost accounts so you not doing your job well. Do you? I mean in the end of the day we getting judged by the results of our work. Results! The funny is that you make no sense to that part. You say that GMs doing the best they can and that they working day and night BUT still "there are bots everywhere".
Really, i'm wondering what's your problem to ban even more accounts and much faster? You need more GM's? Then hire more! You don't have money to pay them?
What have you done all the money from farmers all these years i'm wondering.
Believe it or not the GMs are on your side. They work day and night to remove this crap from the servers.
that sounded very dramatic really but still i lol'd =D
Gogo more PR appearances by GMs, for players to take screenshots side by side with teh game masterz, make some funny shouts and such.
I mean, come on, you think (legit) people actually care about how many bots your ban every day?
The point is to see, at last, after years an actual outcome in favor to legit people.
What if u ban thousands bots and they are still there. If they coming back means that farmers have a profit and they dont care about their lost accounts so you not doing your job well. Do you? I mean in the end of the day we getting judged by the results of our work. Results! The funny is that you make no sense to that part. You say that GMs doing the best they can and that they working day and night BUT still "there are bots everywhere".
Really, i'm wondering what's your problem to ban even more accounts and much faster? You need more GM's? Then hire more! You don't have money to pay them?
What have you done all the money from farmers all these years i'm wondering.
that sounded very dramatic really but still i lol'd =D
Gogo more PR appearances by GMs, for players to take screenshots side by side with teh game masterz, make some funny shouts and such.
Who really need pop stars when we have the GMs ;D
Bitter, party of one, your table is ready...... bot more please and stop QQ'ing about getting banned.
It has been said time and time again.. NC is not in bed with the "farmers".
The GM team is understaffed - oh hell yes. May I suggest you get off your butt and call NCK and complain to them about allocating more budget to the GM and QA/QE team here in NCNA while you are at it - or call a "former head of NCNA" and ask him for some money back.
For banning more accounts faster - it has been said time and time again what NC needs to do to make sure the bans stick. May I suggest that you make a donation to the "legal fund" to help pay for the times in court that NC is dragged in, that might help.
You state "the money that the farmers have gotten" ... lol.. again no response is necessary.
Am I defending NCSoft, no not really, I have said time and time again, that they should have done this from the start of CB, but they did not, and now have realized what that mistake has caused them and are trying to do something about it. Is it a little late, yea.. but hey they are working with the current resources they have.
The problem simply is that there are many well-known botters in the large clans who seem to be immune to GM power. Yes, the random kwjerh and dfg878d bots probably get banned eventually, and I see silenos and high lvl catas pretty empty of bots every now and then (though most of the time it is hard to find a spot at varka silenos where the bots do not outnumber the mobs).
what do you think all the crying on few of the servers is about?
many known botters in the "top" clans got banned during the few last weeks on Aria. heck they even banned a hero on Aria
What about the players that ADMIT they bot?? There are a lot of shouts in the server that even discuss the botting style... LMAO. And yet they don't get banned... what more proof when you have a statement + reports + logs + witnesses + videos + screen + whatever you already have on them... I'm glad that a lot of people thinks the same way. I'm stubborn, I know, but It's only because I believe we can always ifnd an answer and take action.
Some1 talked about results... In my job, if I don't bring results to my boss I get fired ^^ as simple as that... I have the freedom to set my own limits too, so I can be realistic and optimist about my goals. I always reach them. I believe GM's can reach them too. You need time to get rid of botters?? It's ok, take the time, as long as they are gone, we cannot do anything about the way you operate, that's for sure. We have been noticing results? yes... is it enough? no. We all know that :)
Thanks for your support to both players and GMSpam in this matter... now, we need those results... I am doing my best when comes to help on this matter... and I'm pretty sure more ppl is ^^
what do you think all the crying on few of the servers is about?
many known botters in the "top" clans got banned during the few last weeks on Aria. heck they even banned a hero on Aria
I go by what I see on my server. And the top botters I care about are still there, even though they blatantly bot out in the open and everybody knows about it. So, while some get banned, the overall situation sucks. I don't want to start any conspiracy theories (because it is not allowed on this board and because I do not believe them myself, anyway), but sometimes it sure FEELS as if some of the people on the server receive a "special treatment" and the bot reports concerning them get lost somewhere.
back in c1 my friends in RiP and i used to make an adena trail from the GK in dion through the middle of town up through the north gate...bots would follow the m&m trail and there would be an extremely red dagger waiting right behind the gate for the farmer.
It has been said time and time again.. NC is not in bed with the "farmers".
Oh yeah? The actual picture shows another thing and saying something doesnt mean that is true. Does it? And really doesnt have to be an agreement y know. If both sides are doing a good life and that way of life depends on each other why they should change it?
Dude, life is short, live your life xD
The GM team is understaffed - oh hell yes. May I suggest you get off your butt and call NCK and complain to them about allocating more budget to the GM and QA/QE team here in NCNA while you are at it - or call a "former head of NCNA" and ask him for some money back.
That is not my job u know. That's SPAM's job who is prbbly lead GM in there to ask more money and hire more GMs, or at least make a another cool statement in here that he has no budget due to econominal crysis and/or (add more crap here) and we should expect nothing more than we see right now (nothing).
For banning more accounts faster - it has been said time and time again what NC needs to do to make sure the bans stick. May I suggest that you make a donation to the "legal fund" to help pay for the times in court that NC is dragged in, that might help.
You saying to donate money for NCsoft? @_@ Nuh prbbly im still drunk....
You state "the money that the farmers have gotten" ... lol.. again no response is necessary.
No read better, im talking about the money that NC has gotten from farmers, the real money farmers pay for accounts to bot. Those money goes to NC last time i checked.
Oh but still NC need donations =D
I never heard the case for consolidating to 2 NA servers put quite that way. Essentially trading a completely wipe and server configuration for no bots.
The only fly in that ointment is that, other than the large number of players quitting, we can't be sure that the bot killers would actually be able to keep the new servers bot free. If there was some way to insure the no bot rule, I personally would be happy to have a complete wipe and start over.
the alternative would be to allow botting like on the korean extreme servers...as long as there's one live person, they can box a whole party on the nc program.
nc would make a ton more money with this option since everyone would be buying up cd keys and paying extra for each account's monthly fees.
That's not even close to an alternative... that's the same reazon drugs aren't legal in most of the countries... Don't drive the thread back ^^ I don't care how much money NC wants or needs to be happy... I care about the money I pay to enjoy the game, that's it. And if it's ilegal to bot... then I demand that botters are eliminated... as simple as that. Don't you agree?? ^^
But as some1 stated... seems that some of them are "protected" for some reason. Don't think that's true though, but it seems so because of the way they shout and what they shout ingame. Just fix the GG thingy so it actually runs. Grab those automating programs, decode them and set GG to detect the process and if it's on, let the user log in, but unable to play AND report it as botter. As simple as that ^^
the devs are in korea where it's just not nearly as much of a problem as over here.
i remember in 1.08 in diablo 2:LoD...you needed maphack just to survive against all of the cheaters. then i tried playing on the europe server and they'd never even heard of maphack at that point.
cheating in america is just much more prevalent, unfortunately.
Well the only way to be successful to erase the bots where they taking most of ur precious hunting spots...here is my suggestions
I think I cleared like 3 full parties last monthe permanantly
-1 . indicates all names of toon (not screen shots but type them out)
-2 . several reports (not only once but I did like 1 month straight)
-3 . Proof included (I recorded with reply file, I follow them with move )
-4 . several screen shots
--and all of these must be send with letter (support) not clicking button in the game.....
the reason for sevarl non stopping report is that ....some idiot gms...they dont work....they are just pretending ...saying 'Thank you for blah blah...blah.......take care adios LOL '
I belive that some GMs ...even dont know how to enter hellbound
and especially on Friday ....man GMs....they just doing all replies without thinking i have file with 3 GMs reply on my private issue... they dont under stand , i mean they dont even read carefully what u saying....and last GM said ...I sent ur issue to senior office LOL after 3 replies...
then Next monday almost before tuesday , I got reply
and that was ....a lie.... items are still in my inventory, they didn't deleted all event items..
total....joke....of work....
I really wonder why they get GM for working...what they do ??
...................do it for at least 1 month........ u will see the result....
Well... when I started this thread I was very desperate and felt helpless... thought nothign would ever be done... But I was wrong. I want to open thank the GM Staff for their lately job!!!
And to HGMSpam... I know sometimes I'm kind of annoying in forum... but my intention is no other than to help.
I can say it again: Garden of Beasts is now a bot-free area (for what I have seen) and thanks GM Staff for all their work! Keep on that way!!
just a thought banning have serious consequence, ban 1 person by ip could result in 3-5 accounts loss. LOL so 30 person = 120-15 accounts possibly T_T
Anybody smart running a spamming program will use proxies to hide their real IP. It would be impossible to ban them all. Unless they ban ranges of them in which case they end up possibly banning legitimate players
why dont they just go and shutdown all the companies that make the bot programs and
adena sales? wouldnt that wipe out some of the problem? ive never understood that.
if all these companies that sell the game product and are exploiting it, isnt that
breaking all the international copywrite laws?
Wouldnt it be alot less expensive?
I have some of the answer. in the back of my head i hear a voice saying
"don't be so nieve, who do you think hosts those sites?"
so i never know. is L2 behind L2?
Because it's imposible! Those companies do not breach copyright laws or what ever, only thing they breach is our EULA. Even if it would be posible to take legal actions against such companies there's other problem. You can suite them in USA but can't do that in UK and French.
Because it's imposible! Those companies do not breach copyright laws or what ever, only thing they breach is our EULA. Even if it would be posible to take legal actions against such companies there's other problem. You can suite them in USA but can't do that in UK and French.
It's a losing business to sue those companies as well. They can just transfer their company assets to another company, claim bankruptcy and start again with a new one.
Also the EULA probably isn't worth much in a court room.
careful with that avatar, drakonz...we're not allowed to advertise for other games here. good capture, though.
how is it an advertisement for another game?
Either you know what the game is, and advertisement is useless, or you don't know and advertisement is useless since it contains no info :p
One thing that would stop random booting like 1/2 man party is already possible but for some reason i don't understand on official servers is not existing. Champion mobs spawn.
I played on a privet server some months a go and there from time to time a champion mob was spawning, x10 more hp then regular mob/x10 drops etc, as a live player i had to be very careful to drow this mobs in a safer loc and kill it but for an automatic program this kind of options will not be esy so 1 or 2 even 3 man boot party would have serious problems with this mobs especially if around them wile they kill the champ normal mobs keep spawning.
So why dosnt this mobs exist on the official servers? I am shore normal players will find them very fun and interesting (takes a way the boring part of grinding), small boot groups will hate it and large groups will find that champs very profitable :( This kind of option is possible in l2 cod otherwise they couldn't put it on a privet server i thing.
Just a suggestion:)