Another perspective on PvP

It just so happens that it is more-or-less in line with my own...

http://bannable-offenses.blogspot.com/2009/02/wow-pvp.html

Yes, its WoW from a GM of Final Fantasy, but it pretty much tells the same story as I do on L2. Pay specific attention to the comments.

Next time, I'll just save time, roll on a normal server, and then punch myself in the balls several times.

Well then perhapse you should pick a clan without any wars. Neutral pve clans do exist and usually have generally good people in them. Though, they are usually small, they can get together for raids and whatnot. ^^

Well then perhapse you should pick a clan without any wars. Neutral pve clans do exist and usually have generally good people in them. Though, they are usually small, they can get together for raids and whatnot. ^^

Wartags are not a problem for me, they see me and I die. Thus is life as a Fortune Seeker. Its the people that think that going red on a random dorf counts as PvP and that they are "ub3r1337" because they can come up behind me while grinding and gank me for full XP loss.

The blog post specifically talks about the griefing problem, which L2 has in spades.

You want to PvP over a hunting spot? Fine.
Lock down a spot? Fine with me.
Own raidbosses? I'm down with that.
You have a specific problem with me and feel the need to call me out? Whatever.
Siege? Clan War? Bring it on, that's big fun!

Killing random people because it is fun for you to ruin the game for someone else? Not so much.

Griefing is nothing like it used to be. I used to get pked by permareds all the way to a grade. But permareds have gone the way of the dinosaur. If your getting habitually pked perhapse you need to ask ur clanleader to check out whos doing it, usually if u pull the right strings and twist a few arms anyone can be motivated. And if its just someone out perma-red pking you, pls alert me to their location and i and a squad of ppl looking for a good time will come defend you ^.-

PvP in this game is the most primative I have seen and when all the 'serious' PvPers use programs and cheats to assist it is just laughable.

Our clan has war invites from the 3 top alliances on the server and tbh, we have no desire to war back because it is all about who can cheat the most when it comes to these wars. They grief any clan that they want to for no reason at all and when you don't declare back you get called 'carebears'. Imo, you are only a carebear if you have to use CP spam, radar, hide etc. and detag to bot up all the time.. calling players carebears who stick with their clan and XP manually even during wars and when getting griefed/PK'd is very ironic.

We war clans around the same level as our own and this is fun for all involved - I don't see the point in making the game unenjoyable for anyone, especially players that want to play the game as intended (i.e with no assistance from other software and/or w-al-ker).

To be honest PvP is joke for any game that does not present an even playing ground for all involved(basically every mmo). L2 has even worse pvp than most there's no incentive to actually do it(i.e. no rewards or character development for killing other players). At BEST pvp MIGHT scare someone enough away to let you hunt in peace, but not very likely. Oly and Kratei's Cube are about the only pvp worth getting involved in, and both of those are rather pathetic venues for it, Oly is only slightly better because there's some potentially really good rewards for it that may or may not take months and months of matches to get. But it's not that great because it's 1v1 and takes place in a glorified closet.

This is how NC market Lineage II.



What is Lineage II?
Experience an immersive and dramatic fantasy world known for its unique political and economic systems. Engage in regular castle sieges, exciting monster encounters, and epic clan vs. clan warfare.

You'll need tenacity, cunning, and strategy to survive!

Lineage II offers the world's elite MMO players a hardcore Player vs. Player experience and is also a great value.



On reflection, if you don't like PvP or only want to participate at your own will, go play Columns (http://www.dabbledoo.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/columns_3.jpg).

This is how NC market Lineage II.



What is Lineage II?
Experience an immersive and dramatic fantasy world known for its unique political and economic systems. Engage in regular castle sieges, exciting monster encounters, and epic clan vs. clan warfare.

You'll need tenacity, cunning, and strategy to survive!

Lineage II offers the world's elite MMO players a hardcore Player vs. Player experience and is also a great value.



On reflection, if you don't like PvP or only want to participate at your own will, go play Columns (http://www.dabbledoo.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/columns_3.jpg).

Well... disappointing answer from good ol'purp. Where's negative rep when you need it...

Thou my irony sense are tingling...

In L2, competition is a competition in gear/level too, after all this isn't quake or any other shooter where all players are equal all the time and pure skill (that you build up with time) is what matters (most of the time).

You're to expect this from a free-world game like L2, there's no helping it, there are penalties for mindless killing (karma/drop system) but still people will devour you if they afford it...

I don't think making it more restrictive in this sense will do too much good, honestly here in L2 players kill other players when meating in the world less often then in games like WoW where killing the opposite faction is not punished, it is rewarded and when corpse camping occurs only the reward disappears but the griefer has no penalty for griefing you.. endlessly btw.

The world of permanent conflict is a paradox.... Want explanations ? No explanations, just compromise thru gameplay restrictions.
Ppenalty system discouraging certain behavior or simply removing certain options entirel; attacking anyone at any time anywhere.. is commonly accepted as a very bad design idea for example, some restrictions generally apply in any and all mmorpgs.

To be honest PvP is joke for any game that does not present an even playing ground for all involved(basically every mmo). L2 has even worse pvp than most there's no incentive to actually do it(i.e. no rewards or character development for killing other players). At BEST pvp MIGHT scare someone enough away to let you hunt in peace, but not very likely. Oly and Kratei's Cube are about the only pvp worth getting involved in, and both of those are rather pathetic venues for it, Oly is only slightly better because there's some potentially really good rewards for it that may or may not take months and months of matches to get. But it's not that great because it's 1v1 and takes place in a glorified closet.

Actually, L2 is better than in most games because there's an incentive. Contrary to some games where it's deathmatch only, in L2 there are goals : CRP, Castles, Fortresses, control of XP spots, control of RBs...
You PvP for a bigger thing than just your little person. Maybe that's what bothers you.


L2 has a good system to handle PKs and protect "innocents", although some new features prevent some items from dropping. In Ultima Online it was (and still is) totally screwed up, if you want an example. And in WoW, as the OP mention, just being in the opposite faction allows you to PK newbies in loop without penalty. That's a failure. L2 PvP system is very different.

We have restrictions on pvp...they are called Towns.

they cant changes the way of this game because of one person making another person unhappy and upset right? :D

I started this thread not as another "let's nerf PvP" thread.

It was meant as a commentary on jackholes.

All online communities have them and online games from the primordial swamps have had to contend with people that can only take pleasure by ruining the fun of others (anyone remember the Prodigy system and the game "Rebel Space"?)

Specifically, L2 had a good system for discouraging the jackholes among us. Karma and being red was hard, you had to grind for a good long time to wash the red while always being prepared to deal with a hoard of players looking at you like a mob with exceptionally better drops.

OR you could die (maybe repeatedly) losing as much, if not more, XP than your victim.

The potential for griefing was there, but it was very expensive. The option of smacking that loudmouthed moron that has been pming you how much you suck was an option to anyone. Fighting other players for XP spots was common as your intent was to XP anyway and the red would work off as you grind. Anyone that wanted to ruin the game could do so for as long as they could endure the consequences.

Then along came the Blessed Scroll of Resurrection.

Since then, the karma system has been ineffectual in deterring bad/anti-social behavior. Kill the n00bs, tell them that they suck at L2 and should just quit, clan hall SOE and have your friends drag city guards in to kill you. BREZ, rinse, repeat as necessary.

Legit players' lives are valued at 2.7 million adena on Sayha.

When you run out of BREZ and/or adena to buy more you just visit your friendly adena for real-world cash seller (just wait online a few minutes and you get plenty of suggestions on how to do this) and you are back in the "jackhole" business.

Lets not even talk about augments and undroppable gear.

Closing with another quote from the original blog post:See, I signed up for the whole RPG gig because I wanted to go out and fight monsters. Big, ugly monsters who inexplicably carry awesome items that will help my kill other big, ugly monsters.

That was what they were originally going to call RPGs. Role-playing was just catchier.

Why in the hell would I want to play an RPG to fight against other players?

If I wanted to fight other players, I would play a fighting game.

That's kind of the point.

I started this thread not as another "let's nerf PvP" thread.

It was meant as a commentary on jackholes.

All online communities have them and online games from the primordial swamps have had to contend with people that can only take pleasure by ruining the fun of others (anyone remember the Prodigy system and the game "Rebel Space"?)

Specifically, L2 had a good system for discouraging the jackholes among us. Karma and being red was hard, you had to grind for a good long time to wash the red while always being prepared to deal with a hoard of players looking at you like a mob with exceptionally better drops.

OR you could die (maybe repeatedly) losing as much, if not more, XP than your victim.

The potential for griefing was there, but it was very expensive. The option of smacking that loudmouthed moron that has been pming you how much you suck was an option to anyone. Fighting other players for XP spots was common as your intent was to XP anyway and the red would work off as you grind. Anyone that wanted to ruin the game could do so for as long as they could endure the consequences.

Then along came the Blessed Scroll of Resurrection.

Since then, the karma system has been ineffectual in deterring bad/anti-social behavior. Kill the n00bs, tell them that they suck at L2 and should just quit, clan hall SOE and have your friends drag city guards in to kill you. BREZ, rinse, repeat as necessary.

Legit players' lives are valued at 2.7 million adena on Sayha.

When you run out of BREZ and/or adena to buy more you just visit your friendly adena for real-world cash seller (just wait online a few minutes and you get plenty of suggestions on how to do this) and you are back in the "jackhole" business.

Lets not even talk about augments and undroppable gear.

Closing with another quote from the original blog post:

It's called an RPG becuase you are playing as a specific character in a world, it's not really intended for you to actually roleplay as in type in a 12th century accent and list every single emotion you would do if it were real... thats just...wow...

This game is more focused on the Mass and PvP

It's called an RPG becuase you are playing as a specific character in a world, it's not really intended for you to actually roleplay as in type in a 12th century accent and list every single emotion you would do if it were real... thats just...wow...

This game is more focused on the Mass and PvP

uh huh... Did I say anything about 12th century accents or emotions? I don't remember....