As you all know the improved Apella armor gives little to no xp lost vs a Wartag. So when people have "farm clans" that farm reputation you may ask yourself this... how do they transfer it all? Well its simple they wear Improved Apella armor and get them selves killed multiple times till Rep points are totally exhausted and @ the end the player who died countless times receives 0% XP lost and then begins Rep point farming. Now the discussion for this thread is this, do you believe this is a form of exploitation, why?
I call it farm because they do not breach any game mechanics using it. Other thing is that I don't see the benefits by doing that.. How much time tik takes to kill/rez/kill/rez 10 000 times? Isn't faster just to lvl academy toon?
theres a big difference between "little to no" and flat out saying 0% loss.
please, test your own hypothesis and re-draw your thesis to match.
AFAIK you dont have "no exp loss" killed by wartags anymore. AFAIK wars fought 2 way give 1% deaths, and clans with good passives have 50% deduction on that, also taking into account deaths by 79+ _STARTING_ at under 1%...
exp loss on siege field is nil for registered parties. i'll warrant the place you understand these rep-wars to be coming from is over the siege grounds at a castle nobody wants.
I would love to test it but I don't have a Improved Apella Set. You could always Gimmie 1 and I'll test it out using 0%, 20%, 50%, 60%, 80% res. All I'm told is that you don't get xp lost from a War Target.
theres a big difference between "little to no" and flat out saying 0% loss.
please, test your own hypothesis and re-draw your thesis to match.
AFAIK you dont have "no exp loss" killed by wartags anymore. AFAIK wars fought 2 way give 1% deaths, and clans with good passives have 50% deduction on that, also taking into account deaths by 79+ _STARTING_ at under 1%...
exp loss on siege field is nil for registered parties. i'll warrant the place you understand these rep-wars to be coming from is over the siege grounds at a castle nobody wants.
"little to no xp" mean: (Clan luck 1-2, and CH /w Improved Apella) vs. non-Wartargets
0% means: (Clan Luck 1-2, CH /w Improved Apella) vs. Wartargets
"little to no xp" mean: (Clan luck 1-2, and CH /w Improved Apella) vs. non-Wartargets
0% means: (Clan Luck 1-2, CH /w Improved Apella) vs. Wartargets
just how many deaths do you need to take to transfer 2000 rep ? 2000 deaths if my math skills work properly.
now, follow the little birdie here: you dont loose 0%. you loose some amount smaller than 0.01%, much like earning exp at high levels where you dont see your bar move with every kill. it might take 5-10 maybe 20 mobs to earn .01%, same with loosing exp in apella. you loose so few exp that you dont see a difference until you take 2000 ish deaths which by then is a considerable build up of lost exp.
now to answer your obvious retort, no. no clan makes 1 person take 2 days out of play time to take 2000 deaths, or to leave auto-res on and walk away from the PC.
im just stating that you still loose exp, however minor. otherwise nobody would ever wear anything else and there would be no 2 way clan wars. who would want to risk a 2way war when the infamous "power deleveller" people would beat on auto-rezzing members for rep.
its not an exploit to me, to earn rep this way. it is part of game mechanics. 2 way wars have existed since the dawn of level 4 and 5 clans back in c1 sometime. reputation for clans has been around since the new dev team took over in Interlude.
given that you also need to be Baron status or higher to even EQUIP the stuff, those in it should and can wear it boldly. having these people take a tiny death on the part of the rest of the (likely lower level) clan somehow has a note of nobility to it.
then again, if this was a game mechanic that was truly an exploit, so also should be adding a second or third subclass just to rep-farm it instead of taking a death on a main or loved sub.
theres a ton of other ways that legitimately discredit warring for reputation, making it a useless thing to do.
just how many deaths do you need to take to transfer 2000 rep ? 2000 deaths if my math skills work properly.
now, follow the little birdie here: you dont loose 0%. you loose some amount smaller than 0.01%, much like earning exp at high levels where you dont see your bar move with every kill. it might take 5-10 maybe 20 mobs to earn .01%, same with loosing exp in apella. you loose so few exp that you dont see a difference until you take 2000 ish deaths which by then is a considerable build up of lost exp.
now to answer your obvious retort, no. no clan makes 1 person take 2 days out of play time to take 2000 deaths, or to leave auto-res on and walk away from the PC.
im just stating that you still loose exp, however minor. otherwise nobody would ever wear anything else and there would be no 2 way clan wars. who would want to risk a 2way war when the infamous "power deleveller" people would beat on auto-rezzing members for rep.
its not an exploit to me, to earn rep this way. it is part of game mechanics. 2 way wars have existed since the dawn of level 4 and 5 clans back in c1 sometime. reputation for clans has been around since the new dev team took over in Interlude.
given that you also need to be Baron status or higher to even EQUIP the stuff, those in it should and can wear it boldly. having these people take a tiny death on the part of the rest of the (likely lower level) clan somehow has a note of nobility to it.
then again, if this was a game mechanic that was truly an exploit, so also should be adding a second or third subclass just to rep-farm it instead of taking a death on a main or loved sub.
theres a ton of other ways that legitimately discredit warring for reputation, making it a useless thing to do.
Improved Apella has no loss for clan wars, it is 0%, not 0.01%
And it's a pretty bad set bonus wise, and you really don't lose much to a war death with clan luck 2 and a clan hall, maybe a residence death fortune fort/castle
congratulations, sneezingtiger, youve hijacked the thread and contributed nothing.
please, do take the time next time to factually disprove the assumptions i made.
and in the next post please answer the question at hand. is farming rep with apella an exploit?
read my previous post. I already answered that. It's not an exploit because it's horribly horribly inefficient
Contributing nothing is better than contributing false information. Although you properly disagree.
killing 5000 people takes an assload of time no matter how you do it, doing it with 1 person with 10 ressers will take many many many hours. and with improved apella being as expensive as it is (how much clan rep is it? 6000? that's a lot to spend to be able to farm clan rep)
let me quote myself, seeing you missed the part where i agreed with you:
its not an exploit to me, to earn rep this way. it is part of game mechanics. 2 way wars have existed since the dawn of level 4 and 5 clans back in c1 sometime. reputation for clans has been around since the new dev team took over in Interlude.
given that you also need to be Baron status or higher to even EQUIP the stuff, those in it should and can wear it boldly. having these people take a tiny death on the part of the rest of the (likely lower level) clan somehow has a note of nobility to it.
then again, if this was a game mechanic that was truly an exploit, so also should be adding a second or third subclass just to rep-farm it instead of taking a death on a main or loved sub.
theres a ton of other ways that legitimately discredit warring for reputation, making it a useless thing to do.
You don't necessarily need an army of ressers all you need is:
(A) Enemy Fortress
(B) Enemy(s) @ The Fortress Spawn Point willing to Die /w Improved Apella
1x Enemy Summoner - To Summon Players to there Fortress Spawn Point
This method can be done with PVP type Clan Halls Aswell.
and basically Click 1 spot and kill em nonstop while the person dead presses the return to fortress. that is super fast compared to having alot of ressers. Though I never done it, I'd expect this 2 be the method of choice when transferring a Alt Farm clan rep points to a main clan.
Why would this method be better? (A) 50% Res (B) 1 Spawn Point (C) Improved Apella (D) Wartag (Optional: clan luck 1-2 or residence hall)
As you all know the improved Apella armor gives little to no xp lost vs a Wartag. So when people have "farm clans" that farm reputation you may ask yourself this... how do they transfer it all? Well its simple they wear Improved Apella armor and get them selves killed multiple times till Rep points are totally exhausted and @ the end the player who died countless times receives 0% XP lost and then begins Rep point farming. Now the discussion for this thread is this, do you believe this is a form of exploitation, why?
I'm not going to comment on all the other replies here, I'm simply replying to the OP. I don't think it's an exploit. As it was said in the first reply, it's not a breach of the game mechanics or some sort of bug. It's a sneaky little way that people found to utilize the systematics.
You don't necessarily need an army of ressers all you need is:
(A) Enemy Fortress
(B) Enemy(s) @ The Fortress Spawn Point willing to Die /w Improved Apella
1x Enemy Summoner - To Summon Players to there Fortress Spawn Point
This method can be done with PVP type Clan Halls Aswell.
and basically Click 1 spot and kill em nonstop while the person dead presses the return to fortress. that is super fast compared to having alot of ressers. Though I never done it, I'd expect this 2 be the method of choice when transferring a Alt Farm clan rep points to a main clan.
Why would this method be better? (A) 50% Res (B) 1 Spawn Point (C) Improved Apella (D) Wartag (Optional: clan luck 1-2 or residence hall)
You can do the same with lowbies. but better. Because they can be naked and be 1shot by anything (or Aoe'd for even faster farming), your guy in apella will take time to kill each and every death (and I could be wrong here, but do set bonuses apply to someone with grade penalty? I know weapon SA's dont. If armor bonuses don't either you'd need 61+ at least. all takes time.)
As you all know the improved Apella armor gives little to no xp lost vs a Wartag. So when people have "farm clans" that farm reputation you may ask yourself this... how do they transfer it all? Well its simple they wear Improved Apella armor and get them selves killed multiple times till Rep points are totally exhausted and @ the end the player who died countless times receives 0% XP lost and then begins Rep point farming. Now the discussion for this thread is this, do you believe this is a form of exploitation, why?
That's Kinda pointless. Any clan who knows how to properly transfer rep points wouldn't waste their time even doing it this way, so this is a Non-Issue.
You don't necessarily need an army of ressers all you need is:
(A) Enemy Fortress
(B) Enemy(s) @ The Fortress Spawn Point willing to Die /w Improved Apella
1x Enemy Summoner - To Summon Players to there Fortress Spawn Point
This method can be done with PVP type Clan Halls Aswell.
and basically Click 1 spot and kill em nonstop while the person dead presses the return to fortress. that is super fast compared to having alot of ressers. Though I never done it, I'd expect this 2 be the method of choice when transferring a Alt Farm clan rep points to a main clan.
Why would this method be better? (A) 50% Res (B) 1 Spawn Point (C) Improved Apella (D) Wartag (Optional: clan luck 1-2 or residence hall)
Why would you even need to wear an Apella Set if dying in a Fortress you own? That's kinda pointless.
The best way to transfer rep points is you take a foretress with the clan that needs the points moved off. You get a bunch of clannies to get on lowbie chars, that are usually One-Shots, and you get about 20 of them and have them join the clan that needs points moved off of it. You summon a Mage to the Spawn place in a fortress, and just have them spam AoE's as the mass of lowbies attacks them.
Anyone who transfers a significant amount of Rep. Points any other way, is wasting way too much time.
oooooo so thats how its done thanks. its the same idea only you use lvl 1 toons n stuff and u put em in the main clan.
Cant transfer rep with a toon under lvl 4 or 9 or so. But why go thorugh the trouble of getting an Apella if you can just pull a toon through academy and trans rep with this toon after?
....apella is a waste of money unless you truly are a carebear....
so a Improved apella user is a carebare to you ... so i bet you use bsoe often .. then it makes "you" a carebear too imho.
its in the game and ppl are right to use it, its a good thing to have i think, u can to hunt reds with epics and make em bsoe cus they dont want to drop something.
That's Kinda pointless. Any clan who knows how to properly transfer rep points wouldn't waste their time even doing it this way, so this is a Non-Issue.
This, and pretty much only this. Why bother with 50+ sets of apella and A grade toons, when you can just aoe on siege ground and res 'right there' next to the flag for 'zero' xp loss..?
so a Improved apella user is a carebare to you ... so i bet you use bsoe often .. then it makes "you" a carebear too imho.
its in the game and ppl are right to use it, its a good thing to have i think, u can to hunt reds with epics and make em bsoe cus they dont want to drop something.
this game is based on pvp... so do it. get an armor set that is meant for pvp. my question is why would you use apella when you can use an armor with a better bonus. the ONLY thing you would possibly use apella for is so you dont lose any xp. Wartag death is already low enough just suck it up and fight. The way you guys perfer to use apella for pvp shows alot about what your goal in game is exactly. In my server people would laugh at anybody who chooses to fight with apella
u dont loose any xp with apella ... even if u are killed without wartag... we tried brez and i got 0 xp back... so that answers all no 0.0000000001% xp loss... 0 is ONE absolute number :)
oh btw my personal opinion is that apella is far the best A grade armor in game... no xp loss (1/3 critical reduction and 1000 + CP pawns all the other + - of the other A armors...anyone who says that apella user is a noob...better look in the mirror and laugh at his little tallum
XP loss from wartags is so small it's just unimportant. The only way I would care about the loss is if I died more than 3 times in the same encounter. Then I'd be less than pleased. Even then, a Bishop, EE or even during hardtimes, a Prophet makes it even less of an issue.
Sorry I just don't see the big deal with pvp xp loss...
u dont loose any xp with apella ... even if u are killed without wartag... we tried brez and i got 0 xp back... so that answers all no 0.0000000001% xp loss... 0 is ONE absolute number :)
oh btw my personal opinion is that apella is far the best A grade armor in game... no xp loss (1/3 critical reduction and 1000 + CP pawns all the other + - of the other A armors...anyone who says that apella user is a noob...better look in the mirror and laugh at his little tallum
put an archer in (apella which is pretty expensive because you can only get it through clan rep) versus and archer in majestic light. im pretty sure maj will win. most a grade armor is cheaper than apella especiialy improved apella
btw that 1/3 crit reduction dosnt go off to often you cant rely on that. just like you cant rely on the debuffs on the pvp armor using fame to go off
oh btw my personal opinion is that apella is far the best A grade armor in game... no xp loss (1/3 critical reduction and 1000 + CP pawns all the other + - of the other A armors...anyone who says that apella user is a noob...better look in the mirror and laugh at his little tallum
it does definitely not have 1/3 crit reduction. It's 3% if anything.
It's a pretty bad armor set, no matter which type you get. The set bonuses are just bad compared to other A grade sets) The xp loss reduction only makes it 0 for clan wars. when you get killed by someone outside of a clanwar you will lose exp (less, yes. But you will still lose EXP) when you get killed by an npc you will lose exp.
it does definitely not have 1/3 crit reduction. It's 3% if anything.
It's a pretty bad armor set, no matter which type you get. The set bonuses are just bad compared to other A grade sets) The xp loss reduction only makes it 0 for clan wars. when you get killed by someone outside of a clanwar you will lose exp (less, yes. But you will still lose EXP) when you get killed by an npc you will lose exp.
Who cares about Apella, get a smurf clan to level five, put your bots in there (and fill academy at all times to turn in CRP), declare war on both side then use main clan to delevel the bots when they start to outlevel the best spoil areas etc.
By the way, please don't do this; I am not condoning it. Just highlighting yet another way of how the system can be expoited.
As an added bonus, you can use your smurf clan keep a 2nd castle for you.
u dont loose any xp with apella ... even if u are killed without wartag... we tried brez and i got 0 xp back... so that answers all no 0.0000000001% xp loss... 0 is ONE absolute number :)
Correct, except you lose some XP from non-wartag deaths.
oh btw my personal opinion is that apella is far the best A grade armor in game... no xp loss (1/3 critical reduction and 1000 + CP pawns all the other + - of the other A armors...anyone who says that apella user is a noob...better look in the mirror and laugh at his little tallum******ed.
I think everythings been answered in this thread already.
- Improved Apella is zero xp loss to wartag although I hear it gets a nerf in Gracia Final
- Transferring points off an alt clan is better without apella so its doesnt relate
And in my opinion transferring points off an alt clan is in no way an exploit. The points were still earned. For example good sized clans cannot fit a whole bunch of festival characters in the main clan, so they need level and alt clan to house them, and they will want a way of getting those points earned.
it does definitely not have 1/3 crit reduction. It's 3% if anything.
It's a pretty bad armor set, no matter which type you get. The set bonuses are just bad compared to other A grade sets) The xp loss reduction only makes it 0 for clan wars. when you get killed by someone outside of a clanwar you will lose exp (less, yes. But you will still lose EXP) when you get killed by an npc you will lose exp.
i think u are wrong here... i was not loosing xp even when i got killed out of clan or by others that were not wartaged... the only way to loose xp was if i got kileld by mobs and i mean i was loosing 0% (and btw i was talking about heavy apella set... ligh apella set is not that good compared to other light top A... but heavy is still the best A grade imo)
u dont loose any xp with apella ... even if u are killed without wartag... we tried brez and i got 0 xp back... so that answers all no 0.0000000001% xp loss... 0 is ONE absolute number :)
oh btw my personal opinion is that apella is far the best A grade armor in game... no xp loss (1/3 critical reduction and 1000 + CP pawns all the other + - of the other A armors...anyone who says that apella user is a noob...better look in the mirror and laugh at his little tallum
Your kidding right? The Second Paragraph, I mean, with an 8x Character, I hope to God your kidding.
Your kidding right? The Second Paragraph, I mean, with an 8x Character, I hope to God your kidding.
Poster specifically calls out "A Grade Armor". Yes, S80 armor is going to be better, but be fair as it specifically calls out A Grade in at 2 places in just the part you quote...
Poster specifically calls out "A Grade Armor". Yes, S80 armor is going to be better, but be fair as it specifically calls out A Grade in at 2 places in just the part you quote...
I don't see your point? I'm saying that as a person who has presumably played this game enough, being that they are 8x, making a claim like that. I mentioned nothing about S80, or S grade for that matter.
Apella is a horrible set, and offers virtually nothing of value in the game, especially when it comes to PvE, let alone PvP when it comes any A grade sets, heck even B Grade Sets.
Other than Eye Candy, and Rarity... Not sure why anyone would want to use the set.
Your kidding right? The Second Paragraph, I mean, with an 8x Character, I hope to God your kidding.
hope and pray to your god cause i am dead serius! and yes i was with apella till lvl 79 ...the only reason i switched to ic set was for the attributes...
The poster was not saying that on his/her 8X toon that they would put it on, but an A grade toon wearing A grade armor - read before flaming...
Wow...
Apparently some people here are having a reading comprehension disorder. My point was the fact that anyone, let alone an 8x character saying Apella is a good set, is baffaling. I'm not trying to compare it to anything, or say it better or lesser than S grade, I am saying IN GENERAL IS A HORRIBLE AND PRETTY MUCH USELESS SET, lol.
Apparently some people here are having a reading comprehension disorder. My point was the fact that anyone, let alone an 8x character saying Apella is a good set, is baffaling. I'm not trying to compare it to anything, or say it better or lesser than S grade, I am saying IN GENERAL IS A HORRIBLE AND PRETTY MUCH USELESS SET, lol.
Read.
i know what you are saying...
and really apella is a crappy set lol. imo the only reason it would be good is if you are afk botting expecting to be killed by wartags lol.
and really apella is a crappy set lol. imo the only reason it would be good is if you are afk botting expecting to be killed by wartags lol.
thats not the case is it?
Sayha is in transition now, but still has the [redacted] jerks that think it is fun to port camp and/or actively hunt the PvE community in order to kill and taunt the body, maybe it makes their microscopic [redacted] grow. There are always griefers in every online setting (not just games).
I'm not wartaged to anyone, but often have these "upstanding" citizens go red on me. Almost 3m adena for brez and waiting for a friend (who has to be interrupted from thier grind) just because some idiot creams their boxers when killing random dwarfs isn't something I am generally interested in, so I take a fort rez and end up grinding even more to just get back to where I was.
I work hard for my XP, I would LOVE an Appella set.
Besides, wartag death is pretty much painless from an XP/PvE point of view.
I'm pretty sure the XP loss effect doesn't work well, if at all on Non-Wartag death, so not sure why you would use that over an armor set that at least can help you?
u dont loose any xp with apella ... even if u are killed without wartag... we tried brez and i got 0 xp back... so that answers all no 0.0000000001% xp loss... 0 is ONE absolute number :)
Jyrki, the same old question: do you have the clanmember status of Baron or higher, or does your ability to wear Improved Apella come from Noblesse status?
As long as your Baron you can wear Apella. My wifes Dwarf, which isn't Noble can wear the set because shes a clan leader of a level 6 clan, which gave the dwarf the status of Baron. Noblesse gives you Baron status by default.
Yes we already had this discussion in another thread, with no resolution that I saw...This was from my own testing and a player death that was NOT a 2 way war resulted in XP loss http://www.ig-wilson.com/images/forum/Shot00005.jpg http://www.ig-wilson.com/images/forum/Shot00006.jpg http://www.ig-wilson.com/images/forum/Shot00007.jpg http://www.ig-wilson.com/images/forum/Shot00008.jpg
I havent tested with a 2 way war and the toon there was baron but NOT from clan level, so there still might be something there that people are mentioning (IE player must be in a lvl 7 clan or higher in main clan (or lvl 6 leader) so they are listed by clan as baron and die to player in 2 way war)...I dont know though, when I have time ill move the sets around to different toons in different clans and try to find some wartags I can die to and see if it changes.
Does anybody have any screenies like I posted with before/during/after death with apella that shows 0% loss?
I cant get into the support page right now but the petition I submitted the GM said he went and tested this out and in all cases lost xp with apella, although he may not have tested under the conditions above...I'll post the message when I can get in there.
P.S. the only reason I care about it is because I wanted to put my buffers in apella so that if I died in a fight on my main at least the buffers could die without xp loss if flagged or no xp loss and make enemies go red. I wouldnt use apella on my main unless it was just to piss 1 way wartags off and make them go red. If the 2 way war thing is true then this wouldnt work for me though =/
As long as your Baron you can wear Apella. My wifes Dwarf, which isn't Noble can wear the set because shes a clan leader of a level 6 clan, which gave the dwarf the status of Baron. Noblesse gives you Baron status by default.
Can you please check if Apella on your wife's Dwarf gives 0% death from non-wartags (and non-allies)?
Though, having Clan Luck can also be a factor, and lvl 6 clans don't have it.