Hi all, I may not post much but I read the boards almost every day.
BTW, I have noticed significant changes in the BOT populations on Phoenix lately. Thank you Spam and other GMs for this.
I ran into something last night grinding that made me wonder...
My wife and I play with one boxed account (buffer), the chars we were playing last night were Spellhowler/Spellhowler/Elemental Summoner.
Periodically, as with everyone, the Vitality Replenishing Herbs drop and we grab them. As the box is getting further and further behind us in level, I have been trying to switch over quickly and pick them up with the Elemental Summoner (box). The Summoner has the Unicorn Seraphim out for our buffs. When the Summoner picks up the Vitality Replenishing Herb, it goes to the buff line at 2 mins, which I assume it is 2mins and 59secs. The concern here is that when either of the Spellhowlers pick it up we get 4 mins, again assumed 4mins and 59secs.
Can anyone please confirm that the Summoner with a summon out will only get 3 minutes out of the Vitality Replenishing Herb and other chars get the 5 minutes?
As I said, I tend to read the forums regularly, not as activly as some and I may have missed a post regarding this already. If I have please point me in the right direction and I would happily go look it up.
Thanks all
and again Thank you GMs for the activity on getting rid of the bots, I can say that some people we have contact with are considering comming back resulting from this!! ... Great fun to be had! TYTY
Kind of seems odd to me though, as they already share the xp with the summon, now they get less vitality to get more xp too? ... Oh well, like I said, Just wanted to confirm that this is right and not some sort of bug that needs to be fixed.
It does kinda seem like a bug tho... I mean, does the summon have vitality? If not, then what's the point of sharing that herb w/ it? Yes, the summon takes xp but the whole point of a summon is to help the summoner deal damage (and thus, gain xp). So it doesn't make sense that that particular herb would be shared. The others, sure, because giving the summon empower or might or mp or w/e might be helpful, but vitality?
I explained why herbs last 2.5mins on summoners, they are shared with the summons.
On average, summoners kill much faster than any other char, because they have the summon to help them... And vitality is dropped at a constant rate, whether the summon is out or they are killing the monsters solo. Which means its also gained at a constant rate, just as if they were soloing mops. This provides an unbalance when you look at how many mops a summoner can kill in a set period of time vs any other class, and the vit gained over-all during the period of herb consumption vs any other class.
Its not 100% fair, because you aren't making the same % per mop for each vit point lost, but hey, thats what being a summoner is about. Sorry.
I'd like to see wolves share herbs with the owner too..
On average, summoners kill much faster than any other char, because they have the summon to help them...
Really? I wasn't aware I killed faster than a nuker...Summoners aren't that much different from a random melee with boxed buffer, the heals don't even matter in herb areas.
Vitality herbs do so little if you're constantly at vit0 that it's hardly worth worrying about it though.
I explained why herbs last 2.5mins on summoners, they are shared with the summons.
On average, summoners kill much faster than any other char, because they have the summon to help them... And vitality is dropped at a constant rate, whether the summon is out or they are killing the monsters solo. Which means its also gained at a constant rate, just as if they were soloing mops. This provides an unbalance when you look at how many mops a summoner can kill in a set period of time vs any other class, and the vit gained over-all during the period of herb consumption vs any other class.
Its not 100% fair, because you aren't making the same % per mop for each vit point lost, but hey, thats what being a summoner is about. Sorry.
I'd like to see wolves share herbs with the owner too..
It does kinda seem like a bug tho... I mean, does the summon have vitality? If not, then what's the point of sharing that herb w/ it? Yes, the summon takes xp but the whole point of a summon is to help the summoner deal damage (and thus, gain xp). So it doesn't make sense that that particular herb would be shared. The others, sure, because giving the summon empower or might or mp or w/e might be helpful, but vitality?
It's not a bug, It's a consequence of the game design around herbs. All other herbs are split with your summon, so vit is too. Making the vit herb an exception would be more confusing than just leaving it as it is. At least this part of the game is consistent with itself.
Really? I wasn't aware I killed faster than a nuker...Summoners aren't that much different from a random melee with boxed buffer, the heals don't even matter in herb areas.
Vitality herbs do so little if you're constantly at vit0 that it's hardly worth worrying about it though.
This post is full of fail.
not just fail but epic fail
He's right though, a summoner will kill faster than any other soloing character (true soloing, as in no boxed support)
Although I suspect that's not actually the reason for splitting them. The summons don't have an inventory and can't pick up, this way they can still benefit from herbs
He's right though, a summoner will kill faster than any other soloing character (true soloing, as in no boxed support)
Have you played a summoner, a nuker and a tyrant/destro solo?
Because I have, and I disagree. The 1/2 herbs is an advantage only for mp/hp herbs.
2.5 min buff time herbs suck if solo.
A summoner solo's faster than some classes....maybe. I can guarantee you though that atm with herbs, nukers, healers with inquisitor, orc fighters level much faster. I can't vouch for dagger, archer because I haven't tried them solo.
1/2 herbs is supposed to be a nerf, not a bonus to summoners. But in a few cases it can help (crit chance/power herbs, buffs you don't have for summon etc etc)
They get shafted quite a bit, but its really nothing to cry about.
and btw, phantom summoner with death spike = just as fast as any other nuker, so I donno wat all u nerds are talkin about
I have never understood the reason why the herbs only last 2 mins when a summon is out.
The herbs need to affect both summoner and summon, otherwise people would complain "omg I picked up a crit damage herb, but I am only attacking the mobs with my summon so why does the herb go to my summoner" or other way round "omg I picked up a superior mp herb and my summon got the mp, but my summoner needed the mp for healing". So it is pretty obvious that both summoner AND summon need the effect of the herb. Giving both the full effect would be an unfair advantage compared to other classes, who only get the full herb effect on one toon, not on both a summoner AND a summon, so they fixed it by cutting the effect in half. That the vit herb is also affected is just laziness, it does not really make sense because the summon itself does not benefit from the effect. But I guess it was just easier to cut the time for ALL herbs in half instead of making an exception for one single herb.
but for the sake of argument, it still allows PS to farm off vit herb just as good as any other nuker =/
Wait, a PS, doing half the damage per nuke as a nuker, can farm as much in 2.5 minutes as a real nuker can in 5 minutes? Are you high?
There is no rational argument for the vit herb being shared with the summon other than NC was too lazy to make an exception. No one's complaining about regular herbs being split 50/50, we understand why that's done and it's not a problem.
1/2 herbs is supposed to be a nerf, not a bonus to summoners.
Wrong.
1/2 herbs were supposed to be a bonus to summons (who cannot pickup herbs by themselves). However, summons have no vitality, so having 1/2 of vitality herb on them is useless.
same deal
nerf to summoners, bonus to summons
Wrong.
The whole idea of a "nerf to summoners, bonus to summons" is ridiculous. Summon is not something independent from a summoner. Summon is just a summoner's weapon.
Basic point is that if both summon + summoner got 5 min herbs, it would be overpowered,
Summon + summoner were never getting 5 min herbs. Instead, summoners were always getting 5 min herbs, having no use for almost all of them. Due to many complaints to summoners, NCsoft did a lazy fix (moving half of the herb effect from a summoner to a summon).
However, the Vitality herb is absolutely useless for a summon.
In the case that summoner only got herbs and summons got 0 then yeah, having them shared would not have been a nerf.
However still from this standpoint at the same time herbs were shared, the length of them was nerfed and balanced.
btw.. phantom summoner who could have used herbs like empower to make death spike worth nuking with got its duration 'nerfed', meanwhile a summon who would have gotten nothing from a haste herb was now recieving bonus from it.
Its all circumstantial anyway, this argument is only about the context in which the words nerf and buff are used... Back on topic::: there IS a reason summoners don't get 5min herbs with summons out
Beside the thing with the shared Vitality Herb, there's another thing that bugs me as well:
If a summoner uses the "Caravaners Remedy" on Hellbound, only the summoner gets the buff, and the summon is still affected by the debuff in the desert >.<
It's these things that often make me wonder, if the devs/qa are not thinking the whole thing through :(
Hi all, I may not post much but I read the boards almost every day.
BTW, I have noticed significant changes in the BOT populations on Phoenix lately. Thank you Spam and other GMs for this.
I ran into something last night grinding that made me wonder...
My wife and I play with one boxed account (buffer), the chars we were playing last night were Spellhowler/Spellhowler/Elemental Summoner.
Periodically, as with everyone, the Vitality Replenishing Herbs drop and we grab them. As the box is getting further and further behind us in level, I have been trying to switch over quickly and pick them up with the Elemental Summoner (box). The Summoner has the Unicorn Seraphim out for our buffs. When the Summoner picks up the Vitality Replenishing Herb, it goes to the buff line at 2 mins, which I assume it is 2mins and 59secs. The concern here is that when either of the Spellhowlers pick it up we get 4 mins, again assumed 4mins and 59secs.
Can anyone please confirm that the Summoner with a summon out will only get 3 minutes out of the Vitality Replenishing Herb and other chars get the 5 minutes?
As I said, I tend to read the forums regularly, not as activly as some and I may have missed a post regarding this already. If I have please point me in the right direction and I would happily go look it up.
Thanks all
and again Thank you GMs for the activity on getting rid of the bots, I can say that some people we have contact with are considering comming back resulting from this!! ... Great fun to be had! TYTY
Try to wait few secondes after your fight, unsummon, take your herb, summon and start to farm :)
I guess there will be no problem if the vit herb was a summoner-only herb, since the effect only matters on the summoner.Summons have Exp bars, they just reset every time you summon them. I don't know if you ever played a highrate private server, but you can level your summons on many of them. Doesn't change it though, since it's all reset.
Try to wait few secondes after your fight, unsummon, take your herb, summon and start to farm :)
This was made before that was implemented. read posting dates :)
Summons have Exp bars, they just reset every time you summon them. I don't know if you ever played a highrate private server, but you can level your summons on many of them. Doesn't change it though, since it's all reset.
This was made before that was implemented. read posting dates :)
Yes but now the herbs are on the ground more longer than before gracia 3, so you have more time to take your time :D