Here's an open request during this next event to perhaps even the playing field for those of us that are here to "actually play" the game. When we make a report of an obviously bad player in the game, you come and check it out right away and then remove them from the game if they fit 2 of these criteria:
1. If they automatically change direction to a new target when you double click on a target they are running toward.
2. If they have a buffer that automatically heals the main, sits to regain MP (constantly), buffs, and always maintains the same distance from the main attackers in party.
3. If anyone in the party does absolutely nothing to protect themselves when attacked. They don't respond, they don't run, they don't attack back.
4. If the main attacking party are able to log out when being attacked.
5. If they give the same canned response over and over again when being attacked.
I'm not asking you to ban anyone, just asking you to clear up some hunting areas for those who are trying to navigate this game without any artificial aid. Just remove them from play and then send them an email letting them know that they were suspected of advancing in the game using unlawful means and they will be allowed back in game in one hour. When they are added back to the game, give them level 4 vitality and a 10% increase in XP. Do this everytime they are suspected of cheating. In the meanwhile, conduct whatever extremely secretive litmus tests you guys perform on accounts and if they are found to be cheating, have them banned. If they are not found to be cheating, automatically boost them 2 levels worth of XP for all characters on their account and either a vitality agathion that lasts for 30 days or 10 vita pops.
This would give people that are playing the game a chance to hunt in areas for at least an hour with no problems and fairly reward anyone that was caught in then net unjustly. It also gives the appearance of customer service with a swift response to their reporting. I just want to play the game and enjoy it a little. I don't mind sharing areas with real players, but I'm just a little sick of rubbing elbows with T-1000's.
Five Stages Of Grief:
1. Denial and Isolation - At first, we tend to deny the loss has taken place, and may withdraw from our usual social contacts. This stage may last a few moments, or longer.
2. Anger - The grieving person may then be furious at the person who inflicted the hurt (even if she's dead), or at the world, for letting it happen. He may be angry with himself for letting the event take place, even if, realistically, nothing could have stopped it.
3. Bargaining - Now the grieving person may make bargains with God, asking, "If I do this, will you take away the loss?"
4. Depression - The person feels numb, although anger and sadness may remain underneath.
5. Acceptance - This is when the anger, sadness and mourning have tapered off. The person simply accepts the reality of the loss.
I hit stage four sometime in 2005 and left for WoW instead of pining for an NCsoft that simply wasn't going to show up. Most players who actually post this stuff are still in stage one. No, I'm not doing this for a laugh. I'm completely serious.
I hit stage four sometime in 2005 and left for WoW instead of pining for an NCsoft that simply wasn't going to show up. Most players who actually post this stuff are still in stage one. No, I'm not doing this for a laugh. I'm completely serious.
That was funny!
But seriously, I'm not in grief in any way form or fashion. I'm just a guy who believes in customer service and I don't believe in the word "can't". It's all what you're willing or not willing to do. The biggest problem people have with heavy handed banning is that they may possibly be banned unjustly. So you have to come up with a fair and reasonable way that will help all sides. The current system is only fair to the people that cheat. The response time is too slow and there is absolutely no benefit to the players that want to enjoy the game unimpeded.
I hit stage four sometime in 2005 and left for WoW instead of pining for an NCsoft that simply wasn't going to show up. Most players who actually post this stuff are still in stage one. No, I'm not doing this for a laugh. I'm completely serious.
uhmmm... and how does your post contributes to the subject here??... It can be considered a "polite flame"... ^^ Seriously, you either are with or against botters... avoiding giving a hand or supporting those who want to contribute to keep l2 clean is like helping botters...
Sometimes this forum is like "who gives the more creative insult" contest ^^ and shouldn't be (and I can be very creative too, but instead of wasting time typing senseless comments... I like to contribute the best way possible)
I'll repeat what I have said in other posts. Bots aren't exactly hiding or trying to look inconspicuous - in fact they blatantly go to the same very popular spots where they will be seen time after time, day after day and week after week. If GMs are actively banning bots then players should never need to report them.
Its not unreasonable to expect GMs to keep the popular areas clear by taking a walk through these areas on a regular basis. I don't really care if someone is botting in a small corner of aden, that's his business - the only thing that bothers me (and I am sure other players) is when you go to a good hunting zone like hot springs / varka and have to fight for mobs with people on bot.
You will never get rid of bots from the game and there will always be a huge portion of players botting their ***** of. Best we can expect is for the GMs to force them out of the good areas so that we don't have to deal with them as regularly. That's a realistic goal and a compromise I am willing to accept.
you have two choices, and only two choices separating you from your delicious Cake:
1. a customer service experience
2. a bot banning gestapo.
they are not hand in hand. they do not come buy-one-get-one-free.
chances are theres 1 gm for each server handling petitions. even a low population server of a conservative 2000 players this can be a lot of problems to fix and reports to filter. hence the bot flagging button.
do yourself a favour and wake the F up. PK, or move. you don't drop stuff now anyway. the enforcer crew (if there is such a thing) easily die in 2hits anyway. they also were botted toons and they dont know what theyre doing.
NCSoft isnt going to triple their GM workforce just because a handful of whiners can't deal with bots.
I'll repeat what I have said in other posts. Bots aren't exactly hiding or trying to look inconspicuous - in fact they blatantly go to the same very popular spots where they will be seen time after time, day after day and week after week. If GMs are actively banning bots then players should never need to report them.
That's the worst part.. they don't hide, and what's the reason? coz they feel safe... and why do they feel safe??
Its not unreasonable to expect GMs to keep the popular areas clear by taking a walk through these areas on a regular basis. I don't really care if someone is botting in a small corner of aden, that's his business - the only thing that bothers me (and I am sure other players) is when you go to a good hunting zone like hot springs / varka and have to fight for mobs with people on bot.
I do care if 1 botter is around a corner in aden... it's still no good for other players that might level in that area.
You will never get rid of bots from the game and there will always be a huge portion of players botting their ***** of. Best we can expect is for the GMs to force them out of the good areas so that we don't have to deal with them as regularly. That's a realistic goal and a compromise I am willing to accept.
NCSoft isnt going to triple their GM workforce just because a handful of whiners can't deal with bots.
I would love to know how you deal with them :)
You stay hours looking for a spot?
Or you PK them?
Last time i was in a PK spree i ended up with 100+ Pk's just in a catacomb!
Guess what appened to that toon?
And yes i care if someone is running a third part program on a private shop in Giran or if there is a massive group running afk on hunting grounds even the starter gremlins!
you have two choices, and only two choices separating you from your delicious Cake:
1. a customer service experience
2. a bot banning gestapo.
they are not hand in hand. they do not come buy-one-get-one-free.
chances are theres 1 gm for each server handling petitions. even a low population server of a conservative 2000 players this can be a lot of problems to fix and reports to filter. hence the bot flagging button.
do yourself a favour and wake the F up. PK, or move. you don't drop stuff now anyway. the enforcer crew (if there is such a thing) easily die in 2hits anyway. they also were botted toons and they dont know what theyre doing.
NCSoft isnt going to triple their GM workforce just because a handful of whiners can't deal with bots.
Okay Spud,
I'm willing to play fair here. Since you didn't say whether or not my suggestion would or would not completely take care of the issue. What would you say the biggest issues GM's have to deal with daily? You seem to know alot about what GM's on this game have to go through, why don't you take me through some of the pressing details they're faced with that prevents them from taking care of this apparently major customer service issue. Wait, let me guess:
1. Customers are stuck in game!
Well, they have a command that will unstick em'
2. A person didn't get their quest item.
A legitimate claim. If it happens too often on a certain NPC it's usually taken care of by an update. At any event, I don't know if it's handled on the spot. Maybe they will have to research the issue and then get back in touch with them. So either it's fixed right away, or it's another canned response-now move on kinda thing.
3. "Honestly, I can't really think of a 3 outside of hunting area complaints"
So I'll let you enlighten me here.
And just so you know, you do have a chance of dropping items when you are over your karma limit. I guess we can all get augmented weapons and PvP armor and the like and then kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill....
Wait a minute...I don't get XP for constantly killing bots everytime they respawn. All I do is turn red with a chance to drop my armor. I can't even teleport to town, I can't get buffs without someone turning purple, and I can't use teleports without guards chasing me down through towns. Seems to be alot of negatives on my side of the fence if I decide to defend the company's EULA.
I have had experience with #1 and #2 in your list and I can safely say that there is NO WAY that they spend lots of time on these issues. Both instances it was days, not minutes or hours, before I got some sort of response. Often the response was um, underwhelming... These sort of things are handled by the front line troops, only weird, hard, or specialty problems get to a GM level that would interrupt them from grinding their bot-ban-skill level.
To counter that, I will say that the last time I had a problem it was handled very well, if not very speedy (also partially my fault for having a job). Of course this problem was one that was, I think, very unusual. It might have been #2, kinda-sorta.
In any case, I think that 99% of the daily stuff that players need help with are handled by the front line people.
I hit stage four sometime in 2005 and left for WoW instead of pining for an NCsoft that simply wasn't going to show up. Most players who actually post this stuff are still in stage one. No, I'm not doing this for a laugh. I'm completely serious.
All true except for two things. Most of us were never in denial, so we never hit stage 1. And about half of the forum users seem to have been at stage 5 for awhile now.
Kind of off-topic. Does anyone remember around launch when there was so many botters/farmers in SODA, etc. that they used to fight each other? Those were fun times.
theres a very simple solution, its called pking - thats why you have that option. Get to 5 and do a sin eater, takes about 10 minuties. PK the same bot 3 times in a row as soon as they come back and theres a 95% chance they will leave.
Simple.
On phoenix i never see bots anymore, i dont know about yoru server...
people have legitimate issues that need GM answers everyday; i remember recently we did the Ice Queen for the first time and we did it 5 consecutive times. on each occasion we encountered new issues that led to complete raid failure.
for instance; the silence wore off on the minions, a few times. the gargoyles we got under control once (the first time) but were a feverish problem ever after. we couldnt get the petrification scrolls to work, ever. we had party members booted from the instance due to summons. we went crazy trying to do this raid, each time finding complications.
thats just one raid with a script, theres over a dozen other such areas with scripts and complications ALWAYS arise. i.e. zaken (everyone still DC's at the door) bernon (the HB one with the quest item refund issue everyone has) amid others strewn over the continent.
theres also issues where people have disconnect dysfunctionality as in after disconnect you are unable to target anyone until you target yourself first. i know that scared the **** outta me when i first had that.
theres a multitude of issues people can have playing the game. "i died, and disconnected with my pet out and now all his armor and weapon is gone" springs rapidly to mind.
nevermind that ALL of these petitions got to be sorted before they can be answered. the copy and pasta must be prepared.
i suggested you PK or move if the bots are too bad. well, let me tell you you only have to kill 3 of the 9 in the train. bots dont carry rez scrolls on their fighters. the fighters will die to mobs and take more of a penalty (death penalty). meanwhile you dont keep going red. with 3 PK's youve still got room for 2 more should the need arise. but don't count on it. those of us who have killed entire 9man trains know you really dont drop much in the way of equipped gear until about 7 to 9 pks. after that your chances are pretty high to drop equipped stuff.
anyway its a pvp game. PK is part of PVP and certainly bots deserve the PKing. ive got 13 pks on me and i am 72. ive dropped lots of stuff. but never to the bot enforcer.
you PK when youve got the assistance of a few more bodies. i went into a catacomb on a lowbie character to aoe with a friend. we PKd some bots but they sent an S grade mage after us. knowing they would have sent someone, my firned decided to stop our exping for a moment and log her main and wait inside the entrance. sure enough the SH approaches the entrance but is deterred instantly as it also falls over dead. my friend's Main arbalester (lv 56) made sure of that. the QQing that ensued was enough to ensure our prolonged EXPing in that cata. those bots log instantly now, at the indication of our presence.
they don't know what they are doing. that much is clear. don't fret to fight an enforcer. just bring help.
Well it seems that the reason GM's have no time to take care of bots is that Spudnik is tying them up cause his crew can't complete a raid.
Also, and I could be wrong, but I don't think that GM's repair script errors on the fly. They just log the information for the people that program to repair the issue. But a GM could actually remove a bot from an area, I believe that would fall squarely in the realm of something they could do immediately.
Furthermore, I will not add in the time it takes to copy and paste. I'm assuming you were kidding when you added this little tidbit.
Lastly, PK is something you do to players. If a player is in your area you PK them. A cheater is something that is supposed to be handled by the GM's. It's an old argument, but I don't pay to police L2. I understand that banning people left and right would just cost NCSoft money and that is the gist of why the process of getting rid of botters is so goddawfully convoluted. So I suggested a process that would allow NCSoft to keep the botters money, but also make the game a brighter place for those who want to play without having to share with cheaters.
I'm surprised that no one said whether or not they feel the idea suggested at the beginning would work or not.
youre not policing L2. nobody - not even Nova of Sayha can do that.
youre fighting for your place. everyone does man. nobody respects player killers. people understand and sometimes even help you out if youre PKIng bots.
There are 5-7 GM's and if anyone has ever called up PlayNC for support the calls get routed to the same location. Now i knew a GM in game <Salpah was his char name> and when he told me what I shall tell u and u will understand.
GM's DO NOT BAN ANY BOTS
yes ladies and gents GM's are not responcible for banning bots at least not the GM's in India. All they do is help player, solve their querries, copy paste petitions from players and submit to play nc.
NOTE
They have strict instructions to BAN all bots emerging from Korean IP's. Yes play NC does monitor IP's of all players and can ban bots but does not do so.
youre not policing L2. nobody - not even Nova of Sayha can do that.
youre fighting for your place. everyone does man. nobody respects player killers. people understand and sometimes even help you out if youre PKIng bots.
You know what Spudnik, I'm kinda burned out with all this sideways, asinine, cross-talk that comes up when you get a bunch of people supposedly in-the-know discussing a relatively simple subject. I believe that it's alot of what's wrong with the world today. Hopefully there will be a time when every rational human being can look at a situation and just agree on what the heck reality is -- Not what it appears to be, not what it's leading to, not what you wish it to be, not how you may or may not understand it, but simply what it is. I'm going to list out a series of questions pertaining to this game and I want your honest answers. Now when I say honest answers, I mean the answers that come to you first. Not those answers that we fabricate when we, as a people, are attempting to sound intelligent or witty. Just plain common sense answers:
1. Did NCSoft create Lineage 2?
2. Does NCSoft claim all ownership and control of Lineage 2?
3. Does NCSoft have rules established about how their game is supposed to be played?
4. Does NCSoft have penalties established for breaking these rules?
5. Has NCSoft
And here's where I stopped...
But let me tell you why.
I took the time to read the EULA again and then got the the DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY section. I noticed in the section that the losers at NCSoft Interactive took the good time and effort to add the fact that they are not responsible for your enjoyment of the game or, more specifically, your "Quiet Enjoyment". So I took a look at the reality of the situation and here's what I found:
You have no right to complain to NCSoft about bots or any other broken, time consuming aspect of the game because they have "supposedly" and "legally" squashed their responsibility of any and all forms of liability when it comes to your personal enjoyment of the game. This means, from their point of view, they owe us, the customers, absolutely nothing in terms of customer service, content development, or even simple explanations when it comes to any and all aspects of Lineage 2 or any other NCSoft Interactive developed game.
I firmly believe that this is the one part of the EULA that they embrace with open arms and enforce 300% more than they do any other part of the contract they have us agree to. I wouldn't be surprised if the Disclaimer of Warranty was imprinted on every NCSoft coffee mug, ballpoint pen, and screensaver throughout their offices worldwide. Sooooooo -- From here on in, I'll create my own personal enjoyment in game and play Lineage 2 in whatever manner is pleasing to me. As far as the message board goes, I'll only post suggestions, poke fun at other players, and remind complainers of the Disclaimer of Warranty until I grow tired, run out of money, pass away, or I am banned for whatever reason.
So the Final Score:
NCSoft: 50, WamWamWuzzle: 0
And Spudnik, I hope there are no hard feeliings for the fire and brimstone I was about to rain down. I mean, I still think you are almost a complete waste of a genome, but in this instance at least you were mostly right.
Don't sweat what the cheaters do because frankly there's nothing you can do about it. Don't hate NCsoft because of what L2 has become because frankly there's nothing you can do about it. Do whatever it is that's fun for you and be satisfied that you're not some cheating ****** that takes the game way too seriously.
When a clanmate, someone on the forum, or a GM gets on you for not doing more to combat cheaters just tell them that you've fought that battle and moved on because every single indicator tells you that it's a waste of your time.
So I suggested a process that would allow NCSoft to keep the botters money, but also make the game a brighter place for those who want to play without having to share with cheaters.
There are 5-7 GM's and if anyone has ever called up PlayNC for support the calls get routed to the same location. Now i knew a GM in game <Salpah was his char name> and when he told me what I shall tell u and u will understand.
GM's DO NOT BAN ANY BOTS
yes ladies and gents GM's are not responcible for banning bots at least not the GM's in India. All they do is help player, solve their querries, copy paste petitions from players and submit to play nc.
NOTE
They have strict instructions to BAN all bots emerging from Korean IP's. Yes play NC does monitor IP's of all players and can ban bots but does not do so.
For Further Information PM me ...
Cheers
as this info is fictional PlayNC ..
I see 2 explanetions for this:
1. your friend is lying about being a GM
2. it was a lower tier GM with no ban rights
Not all GM's has the right to ban players.
From the last weeks bannings it seems like they are banning everyone they catch...just watch all the crying about being banned in the different forums (including this one)
Hmm... Hey Romanec. If your still having issues with GoB, you can head over to FoTD till about 76. As long as your buffer is ready and you've made heal, recharge macro's it should be pretty easy.
The best thing about FoTD is that it's usually clear of bots as you need to play live since there is an ever-present danger of dying. Additionally you should be able to access seeds and seed mobs pretty easily (Desert Coda or Codran can't remember) which can net you good mats for making your next set of weapons (usually DMP depending on who's running Rune castle manor on your server). All mobs here tend to be good xp to (except the guy who has zombie minions, very annoying mob). If no one is at the vamp circle, you've got it made.
As long as your SE has Purify you don't really need to be in Tallum either. I sometimes use nightmare for the root resist. When night time hits, the xp get's even better (I tend to stay on the Atrox depending on what toon I'm leveling). The Vamp spot can get a bit hairy here if your not a nuker but it's certainly doable.
----
Basically what I'm saying is, give up on the whole bot war at Goddard. The GM's will get to it when they get to it (okay sure they are not the fastest fish in the sea... Okay probably the slowest you will find). It's not worth the energy trying to find a spot. The xp is slightly better than FoTD bot not when there are more bots than there are mobs. Sure you can't really do FoTD without a buffer or friends but whatever, sanity comes first. Get out of those levels so you can go somewhere else... And fight a new bot war ^_^.
I hit stage four sometime in 2005 and left for wow instead of pining for an ncsoft that simply wasn't going to show up. Most players who actually post this stuff are still in stage one. No, i'm not doing this for a laugh. I'm completely serious.
I see 2 explanetions for this:
1. your friend is lying about being a GM
2. it was a lower tier GM with no ban rights
Not all GM's has the right to ban players.
From the last weeks bannings it seems like they are banning everyone they catch...just watch all the crying about being banned in the different forums (including this one)
As for ur 2 explanations
1. I worked in the same company as him for a different process (testing FFOW for THQ) and i know he is lagit..he has a orkut profile pm me ill share it with u and u can ask him urself.
2. I never said that PlayNC has just 7 GM's.. all i am saying is that the GM's they do have in India are not given rites to ban anyone except korean IP's.
I shared what i knew of the GM at PlayNC .. just wanted to share with players who wanted to know
There are 5-7 GM's and if anyone has ever called up PlayNC for support the calls get routed to the same location. Now i knew a GM in game <Salpah was his char name> and when he told me what I shall tell u and u will understand.
GM's DO NOT BAN ANY BOTS
yes ladies and gents GM's are not responcible for banning bots at least not the GM's in India. All they do is help player, solve their querries, copy paste petitions from players and submit to play nc.
NOTE
They have strict instructions to BAN all bots emerging from Korean IP's. Yes play NC does monitor IP's of all players and can ban bots but does not do so.
For Further Information PM me ...
Cheers
as this info is fictional PlayNC ..
interesting and imaginative. i cant believe someone fell for it...
fiction (n.) An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
fiction (n.) A lie.
fiction (n.) A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
You know what Spudnik, I'm kinda burned out with all this sideways, asinine, cross-talk that comes up when you get a bunch of people supposedly in-the-know discussing a relatively simple subject. I believe that it's alot of what's wrong with the world today. Hopefully there will be a time when every rational human being can look at a situation and just agree on what the heck reality is -- Not what it appears to be, not what it's leading to, not what you wish it to be, not how you may or may not understand it, but simply what it is. I'm going to list out a series of questions pertaining to this game and I want your honest answers. Now when I say honest answers, I mean the answers that come to you first. Not those answers that we fabricate when we, as a people, are attempting to sound intelligent or witty. Just plain common sense answers:
1. Did NCSoft create Lineage 2?
2. Does NCSoft claim all ownership and control of Lineage 2?
3. Does NCSoft have rules established about how their game is supposed to be played?
4. Does NCSoft have penalties established for breaking these rules?
5. Has NCSoft
And here's where I stopped...
But let me tell you why.
I took the time to read the EULA again and then got the the DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY section. I noticed in the section that the losers at NCSoft Interactive took the good time and effort to add the fact that they are not responsible for your enjoyment of the game or, more specifically, your "Quiet Enjoyment". So I took a look at the reality of the situation and here's what I found:
You have no right to complain to NCSoft about bots or any other broken, time consuming aspect of the game because they have "supposedly" and "legally" squashed their responsibility of any and all forms of liability when it comes to your personal enjoyment of the game. This means, from their point of view, they owe us, the customers, absolutely nothing in terms of customer service, content development, or even simple explanations when it comes to any and all aspects of Lineage 2 or any other NCSoft Interactive developed game.
I firmly believe that this is the one part of the EULA that they embrace with open arms and enforce 300% more than they do any other part of the contract they have us agree to. I wouldn't be surprised if the Disclaimer of Warranty was imprinted on every NCSoft coffee mug, ballpoint pen, and screensaver throughout their offices worldwide. Sooooooo -- From here on in, I'll create my own personal enjoyment in game and play Lineage 2 in whatever manner is pleasing to me. As far as the message board goes, I'll only post suggestions, poke fun at other players, and remind complainers of the Disclaimer of Warranty until I grow tired, run out of money, pass away, or I am banned for whatever reason.
So the Final Score:
NCSoft: 50, WamWamWuzzle: 0
And Spudnik, I hope there are no hard feeliings for the fire and brimstone I was about to rain down. I mean, I still think you are almost a complete waste of a genome, but in this instance at least you were mostly right.
WWW
If you are angry enough to call NCSoft losers, then maybe it's time you stop playing & move on to a different game without botters etc, like Wow or Aion LMFAO :p
IMHO the GM's like all customer care representatives are understaffed, and in this economy it's probably hard for NcSoft to do mass hiring. Like someone else said, they not only have to deal with bot petitions, they have to deal with all the other petitions and decide which ones to send up the food chain, which they can fix, so they are there and busy. When they can drop the other complaints they go and look to ban bots.
So don't give up, keep reporting the bots, sooner or later they will ban those bots, but as we have seen in the past the pro botters just find another ip and start all over again.
IMHO the GM's like all customer care representatives are understaffed, and in this economy it's probably hard for NcSoft to do mass hiring.
I heard Teletubbies will do just about anything for [NSFW]"Tubby Custard" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2SFBLOI2aQ)[NSFW]. Perhaps hire them to fill gaps in personnel?
"Your account has been permanently deactivated after a thorough investigation revealed that you had violated the terms of the EULA and TOS. Enjoy your ban mother*********er.
Love,
Tinky Winky"
It's impossible for me to take this issue seriously. :D