Ok... I really can control most of classes in pvp, about my lvl... once they are 2 or 3 levels higher than me... it's pretty much a loss for me (i'm 76)... Don't have a Drac, it's way to expensive, so I wear apella... Have a FB with 30 dark. Here are my main worries: Daggers and Summoners...
So, to all more experienced Soulhounds around there... can you plkease give me some advice on how to handle those classes... but I will put it a little bit harder... How to handle them WITHOUT using painkiller and Swordshield (imagine you just used them on another enemy)... All advice is pretty well appreciated ^^ cya!!
On my warlock I used to duel a soulbreaker in my clan almost daily, but I cant really remember him beating me ever.
The time he got the closest to beat me I had to resummon pet 2 times lol.
His best strategy involved massive spike dmg on the pet really fast. Make sure you interrupt the summoners next summon after you get their pet down tho.
For daggers im not really sure, but try not to ever turn your back to them, you dont really have the hp base to take stabs too often.
Cool, so you've realised you can't really rely on PK or UD for the most part since the cool-down pushes them outside of a regular strategy. Before I continue, That rapier is almost a liability. I'm not sure it's worth it if you don't have 150 (180 self buffed) full dark. At the most you'll reach 60 attribute.
Also Soul Hounds don't respond well to ganks at all in general. I tend to hit hard march and run for a bit while potting up to try and get a handle on wtf is going on. You only really get about 2-3 seconds to do this depending on the gankers so you gotta think fast. :P
Daggers: Speed. If they are 3+ levels higher than you (in the late 70's area especially), you don't want to be risking stabs. You need to be moving very very quickly to give yourself room to nuke them (this is where dex, Hard March, Blink, and Warp, if you have it, come into play). They move faster than you for sure, but unless you want to be casting into Switch/Trick/Bluff on top of stabs, you need to try anything to get distance on them. With good use of teleports (I guess a male only has Blink) you can instantly give yourself room when you need it, but you will inevitably end up having to 'tank' a few stabs.
Try not to turn and run (giving them your back) in this situation. Use your ports to give yourself room to move or play a guessing game with their attacks (not recommended!). If you've managed to remove Dash on a buff strip, you should be able to rival (or straight up beat) them for speed for a bit. It doesn't last long though.
Additionally every dagger and his dog now uses Shadow Step on recharge, so don't teleport on reflex. Be mindful of this skill and how you spend your own teleport(s).
Also, know when to strip buffs from them. Daggers just get more and more dangerous the higher level they are. At 78/79 they are monsters as this is where the 'Focus' skills come into play. If the dagger has come 'hunting' you, he should know you can steal buffs, and will assume you will strip him straight away. This isn't always the best way to work as he will not want you to steal Focus Death, Focus Power or the less good one.
It's a game of Russian Roulette for the most part (oh the irony). They may have hit all their skills/toggles and just want to charge you down, or they might try to play a longer game to tackle a Soul Hound. One thing for sure though: The stabs, while potentially deadly are a coin-flip. Your damage however (out-side of Shining Edge) is very real. You should probably be okay stripping them as soon as you see them but keep the Focus skills in mind.
Additionally, if they really have come for you, it's not too far-fetched to assume they have buried dark defense deep on the buff list and are using Pots additionally (from the Attribute master: Incidentally, you should always have like 5 of each element at any one time if your clan is under open war. It doesn't do a huge amount but it can help reduce the damage enough to push a +1). Essentially, you won't get the things that they really want to keep if they're smart and know their enemy. It might be worth gambling with your cancel. It might not be at all ^_^.
I usually beat most of the daggers I face unless they are really high (80+), but I usually have to tank at least 2-3+ stabs to fully take them down unless I get lucky and crit them in the face. This unfortunately is all they need to really kill you lol if they get really lucky. If you can stop them getting an open shot on your back (which is basically if you get lucky with Bluff, which is a mental attack + a Stun), you will probably win. You need the 76 passive and Mental Shield like permanently on. If you see Crit Wound appear on your debuff bar, panic a bit, then remove it when you have an open window asap! This kinda hurts ^_^.
TBH if they are 79+ and you're 76, it will look bleak for good reason (I've seen an AW under Focus Death lethal like 3 lower levels in a row). However it's certainly doable. Soul Hounds are a 'make the impossible possible' type of class, so just try your best.
Summoners: A conundrum class. Go for the summon or go for the summoner? It's a tricky question but it's usually best to rush the summoner and drop him as soon as you can since they can UD their summon. It's never that simple though. The cubics tend to be the biggest annoyance. The Summons damage tends to not be such a worry (at least the 2nd class guys), but getting stunned, pz'ed, debuffed (hex/power break/Wind shackle, you name it!) is where it really gets rough. They get more and more debuffs and cancels the higher they get also.
The ones who wear DC are usually the softest. The LA guys are a quite a bit tougher (transfer pain + LA is a fair bit more solid). The guys in Major Arcana seem to be the as solid as the LA guys (well, they don't use drac ^_^). When you add nukes augments it all just goes out of the window. There is a very good chance you will lose to a summoner with a nuke aug and that's really about it...
A trick that can sometimes work is to try and root the summon before charging the summoner. The landing rate seems to be high on summons, and it can give you time to get into their face and beat on the summoner (I think they can even remove it but not sure how high the removal is). If you get this far you can kill a robe very very quickly especially if de-buffed. I've landed death mark and one-shotted robes before. Xfer Pain makes this unlikely but he will go down regardless.
Also Dark Flame can work wonders in this scenario if. It has a higher chance of landing on the summon, but it can also land on the summoner which is pretty funny and should give you the time to spike them to death without them being able to use cp pots.
the higher they get the worse it gets for you tbh. They get bane skills, more powerful summons and I dread to see what their smart cubics do _-_.
I haven't had a huge amount of experience fighting really high summoners, but what I've gathered is basically this Basically: Nuke aug? bleak. No nuke aug? You have a more solid chance to win.
Don't feel too bad though. Zerkers and summoners are just problem classes for Soul Hounds in my experience. I've one-shotted summons and still managed to lose lol (although that could have been my failing tbh...). Daggers tend to depend on level and how much of it is a surprise for me...
From mine personal experience in fight vs summoners. Any type. Ok, there were no really high summoner, highest 73lvl I think. So, what I find out: in any case first kill summoner (necromancers goes to same group :) ) and summon afterwards. And phantom summoner was hardest.
Can not give any real suggestion for SB, haven't really high char and LordRiot gave really good answer.
+1
Thanks a lot for the answer... so it all ends up on level again ^^ You talked about the passive at 76... I've been adviced not to take it coz it's "******" and I need to save SP for vortex and leopold... well... IMO If it's helpful I'd rather take it... Also... does Courage helps us against bluff?? I thought it was more like a p. skill than a mental, that's interesting info.
I've beaten lvl 80 archers (one of them even had auto cp on) but ofc, all my skills went in, so that was luck (disarm, root, fear, etc etc)... but daggers and summoners are just mean.
Doombringers kill summoners easy usually - Sword shield, ignore pet or get it in the path of bleed or rush impact, kill summoner easy like any other mage. And Necros usually have their pet right behind them, convenient for killing it within one or two aoe's: while also hitting the mage, Enuma Elish and Slashing Blade also hit it an it's dead.
Also I think Bluff is part mental attack so Courage may be useful against it.
Will that rumor ever die? 1-2 hits to kill a servitor? Even if you're also hitting the Necro (Summoner), it seems a bit... exagerrated, don't you think?
Next update with fixed banes most of those harder close-in melee classes will get a bit easier as long as you know to time you skills.
I have never found the Kamael classes to be that difficult, though. The disarm is a bit ******ed, but I have killed Kamaels after they've stolen all of my buffs or disarmed me.
It's called knowing how to play, and stopping your servitor so that close-in classes like Doombringer, Gladiator, Tyrant, Warlord, etc. with AoE skills cannot hit both you and the pet at the same time. That's why I use a Corrupted Man. It can attack from range, and has more HP than a Cursed Man.
Yes I have zerked a summoner and killed the summon from the aoe effect, however it takes many many rushes to kill off the summon
The summon takes much damage because you are hitting it twice, one for normal damage and one for 1/2 damage due to hitting it through AOE and hitting it through transfer pain so summoners aren't really a problem for zerkers. Necros are different with corrupted man as the necro can distance himself from the corrupted man so you either hit the necro or the summon, and usually choosing the summon results in your death. You turn your back on gloom, vortex, (soon to be warrior bane), anchor, deathspikes.
The reason why there is a difference is due to the fact that summoners have to have the summon chase you to due damage, while necromancers mainly just use the summons for double defence and can keep it out the way. Corruptman can also sit to the side and use beast bsps and drain away, dealing damage and keeping it's HP up from TP damage. Also it has the most HP of the three summons(and the necro) and by far the toughest so doing this works perfectly.
However, continually driving stuns and bleed into a mage will bring even a mage with TP down as beserkers are just excellent mage killers.
Well... Blakwulf thankx a lot for your comment, even though I really appreciate it, I don't actually need to know how a doombringer can kill... I play a soulhound and killing stuff is way more tricky and complicated. Usually the way to kill a necro is to silence him first and focus on the necro, otherwise necro ends up beating us up... I dunno why, but I find a summoner harder than a necro that's why I made this post.
Btw... I asked for opinions not based on the use of SwordShield or Painkiller... since those skills have a nasty reuse and we cannot rely on them...
I know the theory about fighitng with summoners and daggers... but the practice is different, there are variables to consider, that's why I now ask for experience ^^ For example, the necro I fought (without pk or SS) ended up in the floor coz my skills landed -ofc- I silenced the necro, then rooted the pet and rushed again into necro's face to take him down.
Anyway, all comments well appreciated :) cya laterz
Glad you ask this... I ran a test in arena vs a 78 dagger. 50 out 50 times Strikeback didn't trigger using his normal stabs... However, when I told him to use the lowbie stabs (pre40 skills) it triggered 2 out of 20 times... Dmg was for about 200-250 :S totally crappy.
My guess is that this toggle is useless against some1 higher than you, very RARE to land. I really believe this skill needs to be touched, at least for Soulbreakers... since zerkers get 7 disarm levels and 2 swordshields, as well as body reconstruction ^^... but being able to defend a little bit by givin us a Strikeback level 2 would be fair.
StrikeBack reflects back skills, not normal hits. I have reflected backstabs on Daggers for full damage. Does it happen often? nope. maybe 1 in 10 to 20 times.
Exactly, I was talking about reflecting skills not hits. I made the test and its less than 1/20... and actually the pre40 skills where reflected not the equal/higher lvl stabs... I really think this skill needs to be retouched.
Well... like kronk says: level beats everything... maybe it is designed that way, but I still think the landrate should be touched ^^
to a certain extent, cause when a level 62 can kill a level 77 well....
it's more true so 78+...causef for example there is a huge difference between level 77 and 78 daggers... , moderate difference between 76,77,78,79 nukers
ofc... but I was talking about testing on me... ofc that a 62 strikeback will never land to a 77 stab... but I am 76 and the dagger 78 ^^ and it NEVER landed from a litle bit more of 50 attempts...
advice with summoners is attack the summoner and stay away from the pet ofc; you need to attempt the right debuffs on each pet depending on type of summoner, and be prepared for them to not land, and be fast enough to try something else. Try fearing, slowing and holding the summons; the key is to disable the summon so you can lay damage onto the summoner. But I think we covered all this already.
PS as for Doombringer vs necros/summoners, Rush Impact will lay damage (as well as stun) on pets behind the rush target, so it can hit the summon also even tho it is behind the summoner. And Rush Impact stuns/damages and Blade Rush bleeds everything in the path of the rush, so part of being good at using the rushes is to get the secondary target in the path of the rush so you hit both at the same time.
As for Strike Back, no matter how crappy the counter rate is, it's still worth turning on in pvp. You never now when someone will fall over dead from attacking you...