Where is RumPunch with the news of Sayha?
Anyhow, now that the server seems more balanced what is your opinion of how the clans/allys with play out? Next months heroes should be interesting at the least.
Lets give our opinions and try and be civil about it, if you can :-)
In my opinion its not balanced, RR/Shogs/I.S + a few other clans have more active players.
I.S warned smaller clans not to help Catalyst/DW/Para (other wise they war the smaller clans) ---> As a result the smaller clans bailed out and the server becomes uneven.
I don't remember that being said. Got any screen shots?
Yes it happened. It's not particularly significant except during castle sieges since most small/non-pvp clans rarely get involved in major politics except when they want to get fame points or enjoy a little pvp for 2 hours. Last siege weekend a fair number of clans pulled off of castle defenses because they were threatened with wars.
Yes it happened. It's not particularly significant except during castle sieges since most small/non-pvp clans rarely get involved in major politics except when they want to get fame points or enjoy a little pvp for 2 hours. Last siege weekend a fair number of clans pulled off of castle defenses because they were threatened with wars.
Clan XYZ wants to be neutral. That means they don't help or get involved in politics. Castles are politics to alot of people. You sign, you die, you get warred. You can't have it both ways.
On the other side is people want to have fun, castle sieges are a great blast and alot of players regardless of clan affiliation/neutrality would like to partake of them or gain fame points from them.
By declaring that you are defending a castle, you are kind of sticking your flag in the ground and showing your true colors which don't seem to be neutral.
None of the clans on sayha are currently at the Nova level (that I know of) in terms of being able to wipe the floor with a small team. So every little added defender can help turn the tide. Nova was at least spirited in that sense that they did not war everyone under the sun just because they showed up at a castle siege, but Nova also had that luxury. Consider yourself honored that you got viewed as a threat maybe?
Just for clarification I am not choosing any side in this, just throwing out both sides of the view.
Personally I would love to see castles be very friendly wars where people are not ganking each other afterwards and declaring wars for signing up, but I do realize that castles are the life bread of many items in the game and thus a political item.
On the other side is people want to have fun, castle sieges are a great blast and alot of players regardless of clan affiliation/neutrality would like to partake of them or gain fame points from them.
Some clans know they will be keeping their castle and aren't worried about fame farmers. Other clans have clan wars and are constantly looking for new threats. Know the castle owner before you sign, and inform them as to what you would *like* to do (farm fame, participate, etc) well in advance. If they give you a thumbs up you're set, if they say no then respect it and find another castle where they won't mind.
2. Have a reputation
I find a lot of smaller clans out there avoid PvP like the plague, sieges and all. They make the claim "I'm not high enough yet" and go out avioding contact until they are A or S grade and then seemingly pop out of nowhere wanting to farm fame on their high level toon. Unfortunately, that's not how things work in L2. If you want to get into PvP you need to break your way into it, either with a trial-by-fire and going into a PvP clan and letting your name out there or by taking it slow. Either way, not having a reputation (or a reliable reputation) is a surefire way to get yourself in a war either before/during, or after a siege.
3. Don't expect to be treated fairly
I think it's pretty simple to understand this one. If your clan is so small, or so politically disconnected that you can't siege for fear of a war then you have three options left to you.
-Sign anyways and deal with the way
-Don't sign/unsign from the siege
-Join a clan that is participating
Keep in mind that joining a clan merely for sieges can bring a war down on the clan you are in when you aren't sieging. But if you want to siege and your clan doesn't do it, or won't do it. Then find a clan that will and go there.
Yes there are many other factors to pay attention to, but I think the rest should all be either very basic common sense or are things that real leaders can think of. If you can't come up with them, join another clan, or don't siege. Deal with it :)
Some clans know they will be keeping their castle and aren't worried about fame farmers. Other clans have clan wars and are constantly looking for new threats. Know the castle owner before you sign, and inform them as to what you would *like* to do (farm fame, participate, etc) well in advance. If they give you a thumbs up you're set, if they say no then respect it and find another castle where they won't mind.
2. Have a reputation
I find a lot of smaller clans out there avoid PvP like the plague, sieges and all. They make the claim "I'm not high enough yet" and go out avioding contact until they are A or S grade and then seemingly pop out of nowhere wanting to farm fame on their high level toon. Unfortunately, that's not how things work in L2. If you want to get into PvP you need to break your way into it, either with a trial-by-fire and going into a PvP clan and letting your name out there or by taking it slow. Either way, not having a reputation (or a reliable reputation) is a surefire way to get yourself in a war either before/during, or after a siege.
3. Don't expect to be treated fairly
I think it's pretty simple to understand this one. If your clan is so small, or so politically disconnected that you can't siege for fear of a war then you have three options left to you.
-Sign anyways and deal with the way
-Don't sign/unsign from the siege
-Join a clan that is participating
Keep in mind that joining a clan merely for sieges can bring a war down on the clan you are in when you aren't sieging. But if you want to siege and your clan doesn't do it, or won't do it. Then find a clan that will and go there.
Yes there are many other factors to pay attention to, but I think the rest should all be either very basic common sense or are things that real leaders can think of. If you can't come up with them, join another clan, or don't siege. Deal with it :)
Man that was one big chunck for me to read at 9 am..Not yet had coffee oO...but Yep pretty much sums it up ... Even if you come to just have fun, keep in mind it can always backfire on you. And when that happens deal with it.
Thread Title: "Time to liven up the forums, lets talk politics..." :cool:
Not: "How to deal with your issues"
Somebody is bound to start complaining at some point, the odd information post never hurts. Think of it as a note in the margin. Not a part of the official text, but endlessly helpful and true anyways. ;)
Since unsigned clans participate in the offence/defence of a castle, it is only logical that they declare war to all oposing clans, in order to loose less xp in case of death.
Threatening a small clan with war or intimidating them is a little off for me. If they want they can come to siege to have fun/farm rep. The war will not last more than the siege, except if you want it to.
Back in Fob days all medium clans were warred anyway, so you could not be neutral, even if you wanted. So right now the situation is much better.
In any case non pvpers are encouraged to come to sieges. You will find out that pvp without xp loss is lots of fun and the mass pvp takes the game to a whole different lvl.
I find a lot of smaller clans out there avoid PvP like the plague, sieges and all. They make the claim "I'm not high enough yet" and go out avioding contact until they are A or S grade and then seemingly pop out of nowhere wanting to farm fame on their high level toon.
I agree with this part, go sign up and have fun in sieges, even if you're D/C/B grade, go have fun, but if it doesn't seem fun or agrivating then don't. :)
I been in sieges with characters of D/C/B/A/S grade and i think i had most fun with C grade, ok i get 1-shotted, but its fun and you know that you will die and can't hurt anyone (almost), rather then being A or S grade and getting owned and you have no idea how they did that so fast (can cause frustration) :P
Fixed.
The rest of them are just mercenaries. We'll get rid of them later.
Fixed
I go troll somewhere else bye
Yes u go now u bigbadtroll4life :P
I agree with this part, go sign up and have fun in sieges, even if you're D/C/B grade, go have fun, but if it doesn't seem fun or agrivating then don't. :)
I been in sieges with characters of D/C/B/A/S grade and i think i had most fun with C grade, ok i get 1-shotted, but its fun and you know that you will die and can't hurt anyone (almost), rather then being A or S grade and getting owned and you have no idea how they did that so fast (can cause frustration) :P
Getting one-shotted at C Grade == FUN
Getting one-shotted at S Grade != FUN
It's all about expectations, if you go to a siege at C Grade and are surprised when you get one-shotted, you deserve the frustration. Just keep coming back and remember that you are making the bad eggs waste a shot on you.
Exactly, some clans won't mind you farming fame by attacking their castle.......just need to be diplomatic about it.
When you're a clan leader, very rarely do you get to even wipe your own rear end without first talking to the clan leader in the next stall and making sure the stink is bearable to them ;). Clan leaders who don't get into politics (aka diplomatic relations) are the leaders of clans who get warred.
All grades can make a difference in some siege situations. So in a close battle, where sides are almost even, the time that will take to target and kill the C,B,Agraders will be valuable and may turn the tide for the other side. Numbers do count in even battles. Ofcourse Nova proved they can bring down 100 people of A-S grade with less than 2 parties, but that is another story :)
Also don't forget support classes. A C or B grade healer is non the less a healer and can make a difference. A lvl 58 BD/SwS is good for any mellee party and medium clans never seem to have enough for siege. A lvl 49 WS with his buffs can make a big difference, a low A OL with cp heal and the list goes on.
So my opinion is few people are low for siege. Everyone can help, even if his role is to get oneshotted :)
When you're a clan leader, very rarely do you get to even wipe your own rear end without first talking to the clan leader in the next stall and making sure the stink is bearable to them ;). Clan leaders who don't get into politics (aka diplomatic relations) are the leaders of clans who get warred.
In my opinion its not balanced, RR/Shogs/I.S + a few other clans have more active players.
I.S warned smaller clans not to help Catalyst/DW/Para (other wise they war the smaller clans) ---> As a result the smaller clans bailed out and the server becomes uneven.
That is the problem with a lot of the smaller clans out there. They play both sides of the politics trying to be friends with everyone and you can't do that. You pick your side and deal with the consequences. Or live up the neutrality you claim to have - go level in peace and stay off the siege field and out of the politics of the server. I don't have a problem with any of the larger clans on this server - they are what they are and at least you know where they stand. If you are on the opposite side you PVP when it's called for - have fun with it - as long as it's done honorably and it's not a continual lowbie ganking fest. Which isn't something I have ever seen RR/IS/PARA/DW or Cata do. I do however, have a problem with the EOF's of the server that put their foot halfway in and then want to yank it out and run and cry the first time someone declares war.
The best thing that could possibly happen is all the major clans on this server unite at least on the fact that the nuetral clans are on their own.
Leave them alone to do their thing and have their fun. But once they show themselves to not be truly neutral make them pay. Because I'm sure most of you have seen the same thing I have. How many of them do you see partying one day with RR - the next day with Cata. Sucking up to all sides - but telling both sides we don't really like that other side. Giving locations to every one - in ever major clan to look like they are their "special friend" or "extra set of eyes". Just so they can get help for raid bosses etc. It boggles my mind that people continually let them get by with it with little or no consequences.
That is the problem with a lot of the smaller clans out there. They play both sides of the politics trying to be friends with everyone and you can't do that. You pick your side and deal with the consequences. Or live up the neutrality you claim to have - go level in peace and stay off the siege field and out of the politics of the server. I don't have a problem with any of the larger clans on this server - they are what they are and at least you know where they stand. If you are on the opposite side you PVP when it's called for - have fun with it - as long as it's done honorably and it's not a continual lowbie ganking fest. Which isn't something I have ever seen RR/IS/PARA/DW or Cata do. I do however, have a problem with the EOF's of the server that put their foot halfway in and then want to yank it out and run and cry the first time someone declares war.
The best thing that could possibly happen is all the major clans on this server unite at least on the fact that the nuetral clans are on their own.
Leave them alone to do their thing and have their fun. But once they show themselves to not be truly neutral make them pay. Because I'm sure most of you have seen the same thing I have. How many of them do you see partying one day with RR - the next day with Cata. Sucking up to all sides - but telling both sides we don't really like that other side. Giving locations to every one - in ever major clan to look like they are their "special friend" or "extra set of eyes". Just so they can get help for raid bosses etc. It boggles my mind that people continually let them get by with it with little or no consequences.
Giving locations goes against being neutral (unless someone just pk'd you for no good reason then perhaps you are warranted to give their location out...). But sieging imo doesnt matter anymore, its just god dman fun and everyone should be able to go neutral or otherwise.
Heck everyone going makes it alot more fun, so I'm all for that.
I think its fine for neutrals to be neutral and for sides to pick sides. There is no problem with either. And yes neutral means you can party with anyone you like.
RR has done ganking in the past, not like Fob, but still they have done it. At a certain point, DW did it too, trying to get the server involved against RR, but needless to say they failed and made lots of enemies.
In my mind there are not 2 sides on Sayha right now. Sure RR and "friends" and Catalyst and "friends" are the strongest allliances, but there are other strong or rising alliances, which are not neutral, they are into politics and they are independent, not having joined either side.
This game is not just for big clans and if you take away fun for the smaller clans then you are going to end up loosing people and the game will go bye bye... If everyone went to two clans on the server how boring.. I myself ( whos opinon doesnt matter much) would like to see more then two powerhouses on the server to make it more interesting.
Nuetral is where you can go with who you want to party as long as they stay out of the politics of it. Meaning if pvp happens with who your partied with you back off or leave and stay out of it, best to make sure the party you are with is aware of this. Good people will say yeah dont get involved we understand.
For seiges it is a help for smaller clans to learn pvp and what goes on at sieges... It can stay on seige grounds and not harm no one.. As for Eof and the smaller clans you see they dont stick to one side. They go to have fun, fame , pvp and leaves it on the seige grounds,which is not something hard to do. I think it is something many clans will agree on even some of the big ones.
Nuetral is where you can go with who you want to party as long as they stay out of the politics of it. Meaning if pvp happens with who your partied with you back off or leave and stay out of it, best to make sure the party you are with is aware of this. Good people will say yeah dont get involved we understand.
That my friend is the fantasy definition of neutrality. It is not based on reality. People are going to react when someone's health bar suddenly drops, whether it be the "neutral" healer spamming a heal and thus flagging or someone "who could not let their friend just get killed or their team wipe" and starts intefering in the fight.
Tell ya what, why don't you all get together and set the rules of engagement. What crosses the line and what does not? If I buff you in town, am I later considered to not be neutral? If I spam heal on you during a fight am I not neutral?
You are not avoiding politics by partying with whoever you want to and claiming you are neutral. You are dancing with the devil, and you're going to get burned in the end. All the benefits and none of the costs.
You cannot have it both ways. Either you are neutral (which means you stay out of all of the politics) or you are not. The line of thought that you can seige and party with whomever you like but not be involved in politics is just wrong.
If you want to be neutral, then be completely neutral. If you want to practice PVP, then there are duels and party duels. Go practice that way.
Yes it happened. It's not particularly significant except during castle sieges since most small/non-pvp clans rarely get involved in major politics except when they want to get fame points or enjoy a little pvp for 2 hours. Last siege weekend a fair number of clans pulled off of castle defenses because they were threatened with wars.
Quite silly Gwyd would vouche for it. btw screen shot?
After 5 years of playing I have seen it work and not work.. just depends on the clans. We all have our ways of playing and do what we like.. or why pay right? As for WOW Lasers you can keep that one.. Some of us in Eof would love to pvp or join a pvp clan but we stand behind our clannies until the end.. then move on if so be it....
It's sad but EOF has been a "Nanny" or a "breeding ground" for ppl to level up to S grade then they leave and join the pvp clans. EOF does not bot, they keep it real. What's the point of cheating? After awhile cheating gets boring. When EOF has been in sieges they have kept any animosity on the siege field. No trash talking off the field, that's a rule. EOF sieges for the fun, the learning experience of castles. When they had the castle it too was a learning experience. However, it was great fun to be there, for or against. So it is possible to be independent or nuetral. It's not playing the "sides" it's all about having fun. When the game is taken too seriously then it's no longer fun.
Palau, I've known you for a long time now, but you aren't that carebear.
Castles should only be attacked/defended by PvP clans. If a clan is a PvE clan, they have no buisness being at a siege, much less try to take (or god forbid sucessfully take) a castle.
The castles are the epitome of control points in the game. Without sieges, PvP becomes destabilized, there is no real victory without definitive objectives that can be conquered. Castles are those objectives.
If a clan is going to throw it's hat into the ring, it's asking to be made either a friend of a foe. Now every now and again there can be exceptions to the rule, but as a whole this game is already going too far into the carebear side of playing.
Now don't get me wrong, when one clan dominates every other clan that can kill the game, yes. But likewise, when small clans all play friendly and la-dee-dah their way around, that will kill the game even faster then a dominating clan will.
This isn't WoW, it's not Diego's Adventure Online, it's not Maple Story. This is Lineage 2. It's a war game, it's about PvP, not raiding. It's about getting the best and taking out everything else. It's about butting heads with other people who oppose you and putting them in their rightful place, which is under the heel of your boot.
I mean you can do it politely, or be a complete jerk about it, but ultimately that is what the game is about. I personally gaurentee you that if I sign up to attack a castle and I want to take it, you can bet your **** end I'll war the clan that owns it if I lose. There are practical reasons why.
First and foremost, you war them and start to go after them, they will lose XP. They means you will end up having a level advantage over them at the next siege. Second of all, you will likely cause some of their members to drop clan, this lowers the number of opponents you have to face on the field the next time. Third, you lower their moral if you are killing them constantly.
There are many other reasons as well, but I think the point is already made. Now with all of that being said, we currently have gone from a three sided server, to a two sided server, but I am sure that third side will pop up again.
That my friend is the fantasy definition of neutrality. It is not based on reality. People are going to react when someone's health bar suddenly drops, whether it be the "neutral" healer spamming a heal and thus flagging or someone "who could not let their friend just get killed or their team wipe" and starts intefering in the fight.
Tell ya what, why don't you all get together and set the rules of engagement. What crosses the line and what does not? If I buff you in town, am I later considered to not be neutral? If I spam heal on you during a fight am I not neutral?
You are not avoiding politics by partying with whoever you want to and claiming you are neutral. You are dancing with the devil, and you're going to get burned in the end. All the benefits and none of the costs.
Just my opinion.
Well, if for example you like to buff/party your friends and some of them are in opposing clans, what does that make you? ;)
Castles should only be attacked/defended by PvP clans. If a clan is a PvE clan, they have no buisness being at a siege, much less try to take (or god forbid sucessfully take) a castle.I disagree Biggs, i've been joining (and enjoying) sieges for a long time and i've never been on a certain side (well almost never), i've been able to almost get a castle and even if i were able to take it, we would still be friendly to each other, it really comes down where ppl take the game a bit too serious, those are the ones that war you for anything that gets in their way, not the ppl that play for fun (this also means sieges).
Besides we all pay evenly for the game, therefor we all can do whatever we want in any spot you can if you're able to.
This isn't WoW, it's not Diego's Adventure Online, it's not Maple Story. This is Lineage 2. It's a war game, it's about PvP, not raiding. It's about getting the best and taking out everything else. It's about butting heads with other people who oppose you and putting them in their rightful place, which is under the heel of your boot.Eventho its a PvP game, there's tons of other things to do ;)
Sieges are for PvPers, not carebears.
Sieges are for all players, everyone has the same rights on the playground they equally pay for.
This isn't WoW, it's not Diego's Adventure Online, it's not Maple Story. This is Lineage 2. It's a war game, it's about PvP, not raiding. It's about getting the best and taking out everything else. It's about butting heads with other people who oppose you and putting them in their rightful place, which is under the heel of your boot.
I suppose that is one way to look at the game. I disagree completely, but a valid point of argument.
Then again, I you would call me a carebear. A name I would proudly carry BTW.
Hi DarkFrebiggs I respect your opinion as everyone else :)
Carebear.... funny about that word but actually we are not carebear either... We just stay out of the big politics or at least try to :) If attacked depending on what the situation is we will defend.. If from a large clan its called smart not carebear to leave alone let them go red or bsoe. Lesson we learned from First.. If you defend your self from one person then you got the whole clan so I would think that is just plan smart to think of the whole then just the moment.
As for pvp game yes it is but, not it is not all pvp or why would they put raids in.. :) Problem with the game is the bot cheating to get your character to top has ruined the game. How can anyone as myself compete against top levels, there is no way and so many have done this. So it will take longer to get there those who do not.
Sieges this is for everyone and yes the so called carebear clans can take castles, we took one and held it for 4 months. Was fun too :) and we were never wared during the whole time in our possession. When taken from us this is also true no wars. Was all in all fun and lots of pvp....
My opinion also is many do take the game to serious also and that is what runins the game too. But of course everyone hears this line over and over, along with the botting, which I dont care i have never turned in a bot in this game just sad that it has come to most thinking they need to, to advance .. then where is there to go they get bored and then quit..... the ones who dont you have to admit kutos to them also.
ok you people at work who are bored I have added to your reading this morning... sorry so long.
It's sad but EOF has been a "Nanny" or a "breeding ground" for ppl to level up to S grade then they leave and join the pvp clans. EOF does not bot, they keep it real. What's the point of cheating? After awhile cheating gets boring. When EOF has been in sieges they have kept any animosity on the siege field. No trash talking off the field, that's a rule. EOF sieges for the fun, the learning experience of castles. When they had the castle it too was a learning experience. However, it was great fun to be there, for or against. So it is possible to be independent or nuetral. It's not playing the "sides" it's all about having fun. When the game is taken too seriously then it's no longer fun.
I couldn't agree more.
Clan can be neutral and still siege without getting into wars off the field. I think our clan did/does a good job of that. Its all about how you present yourself. Diplomacy anyone?
As for pvp game yes it is but, not it is not all pvp or why would they put raids in.. :) Problem with the game is the bot cheating to get your character to top has ruined the game. How can anyone as myself compete against top levels, there is no way and so many have done this.
Not bad points to bring up, but I have to remind you, are boss jewels (which are obtained through raiding) wanted more for PvEing, or PvPing? As for the non-boss raids even they are there to give full drops, armor, jewels, buff slot books, etc.
Everything in L2 is geared towards leveling up to PvP, now yes "automated players" do present a sad reality that make it difficult for the average player to compete with. But it doesn't make it impossible for regular players to PvP. I mean look at {RiP} as a prime example. We aren't loaded with 78's, if anything our average level is still below s-grade, but that doesn't stop us from throwing up wars and hunting enemies. It also doesn't stop us from going to to sieges.
A lot of people seem to think that pvp is all about statistics, but it isn't. Yes statistics play a part in it, but they aren't the be-all-end-all of PvP. I mean statistically speaking, there is no reason why I as a 76 Sagittarius should be able to take out a 6-man party of nukers, daggers, and live healers who are all higher then 76. But I do it regularly, I have the screenshots and recordings to prove it lol.
The thing with "automated players" is that they don't learn how to play their toon properly. They don't really know what tactics to use with it, or what classes they are strong/weak against. This is information that the "live" player should natively know. From going out against mobs the live player should know if they are a stun magnet, if they can take a heavy beating, if they do better against archers, mages, or melee. They should know how to chain their skills to get maximum damage with minimal MP loss.
If there are live players who don't know this information, then I understand why they don't want to pvp, they'll be completely humiliated by the players who do know how to play their toons right.
That being said, there are party duels and arenas. If your clan isn't big enough to run pvp practices with it's own members, then find another clan to go up against for practice. Ask questions from people who know how to play their class, find out what tactics to use. You learn that information, and you'll quickly realise it doesn't matter if you're 85, 76, or 67 on a siegefield. You can still make kills and pvp with the big boys.
Again you came up with good points but also fail to add hehe... The raid bosses are not all for boss jewels its also for rep points and to get items in game...
As for the unlive toons.. I beg to differ look at nova .. botted up tops and they know how to play their toons heck never seen a clan like nova before to wipe all. But they get bored easy because of no competition so they move on.
We do the instances and the arena well the underground and things like that but the most part live players are trying to level to get higher so they can give damage.. I do agree with you though on that as far as learning your toons and can do good in pvp with out all the ohter things. PVP helps with stack groups which we learned how they work not to long ago from WE. Yes some of us did know some of this but not like we found out is awsome to know what you can do .
I think your right that alot of people behind their toons are still learning the pvp and feel humiliated with the sly, trash talk from people that do and make fun of them. I noticed that in oly, why some dont go in or in hero chat. Hey if people like to have competition then help people out stop trashing the less knowledged in pvp, might make the game more fun..
This game isn't 100% PVP, its mostly a PVE Grind game.
Guildwars/Warhammer/CounterStrike/Dota are 100% PVP games. In Guildwars, you get the best gears in game by clicking a button. In warhammer/Dota you LEVEL UP by doing PVP. In counter strike you get money/points by doing PvP.
WOW is 50% PvP and 50% PVE, you can get top gears by only doing PvP.
L2 is like 5% PVP, 95% Grind. EDIT: or maybe I feel that way cuz I never bot T_T
Biggs and Palau: Great back and forth and good points from both of you.
Yes this game has a focus on PvE, but I disagree with lasers here that it is 95% PvE. This game is more of a graduated scale. At low levels, yes it is mostly if not all PvE, but as the levels get higher, so does the percentage of PvP. Once you hit S grade, I would say that it is 50/50 if not more PvP over the PvE.
I wrote a massive post regarding PvP players, PvE players, and the fundamental differences between the two groups, and why you are either fundamentally one way or another. But really it comes down to one question.
When you are XPing somewhere and an untagged player KS's your mobs. Do you move somewhere else, or do you stay and fight them away from your area?
As a PvPer, I would defend my area. Myself as well as my clan mates or friends were there first, and I am not going to sacrafice our place for somebody who won't help them.
I believe most PvE players either try to move over and make room for the new person, or they leave and go somewhere else.
Ultimately L2 is a pvp game, it's marketed as a pvp game. You are supposed to stand up and fight to defend your friends, fight to help them, stand up and don't take the crap off of other people.
Fundamentally speaking, as a PvP player it is impossible for me to lose this argument. I won't stop fighting for what I feel it right, and the PvE players will tire of the conflict and surrender the argument. The only way I would lose, was if they continued to fight it until the end, at which point they have ceased being a PvE player and taken the fight through to the end, which is what PvP players do, and thus they prove my point for me.
DarkFireBiggs I will answer your first question.. Sometimes we do and I do defend a exp area, but and yes there is a but hehe. Without knowing who the bots or bot belongs too could get you into trouble.. For instances we defended our selfs in Hot Springs amongist some bots and omg it belong to nova.. Another group up there we defended our area of exping because we were there first and it belong to another big clan.. so where does a smaller clan draw the line of who to fight.. Needless to say pvp happened on both these and we put up a fight but lost of course. With out knowing whos toes you will step on is a problem.
We do fight for our area if we were there first , ksed, kill steal, but we are little smart of who we defend from. We have to think of the long term effects that can arise too.
I agree with Tika and you it is a pvp game, no problem but also pve to get there to be able to pvp as you gain your levels.
I do say that when someone gets to high level lets say s grade, what is this game if you do not go on further with new things and expand your talents of your toons, explore the rest of the game.. if not what a waste :)
I also do not agree with Lasers on the percentage of pve and pvp etc. on L2 sorry clannie.
You guys crack me up. When Nova was here not a **** word out of any of you about how awesome you are at PvP (in reference to Darkfirewhatever). Now that Nova is gone I'm guessing you feel almighty. Post these fraps of you killing LIVE 6 man groups by yourself.
RR is the only clan that I have seen on this server that even holds a flicker of a light compared to Nova. In RR's defense they are still rebuilding and growing after Nova beat the **** out of them, but they did actually keep warring Nova even against the odds which I respect.
Talk is cheap, lets see how bad *** you and your "group" are this weekend. If you prove me wrong, then I'm big enough to admit it. Either way, you look like a ****** bag the way you're talking. I have no respect for people that can't take care of their own business, and have to call on their big brother to come take care of it for them. Let see what you got big man and leave RR or any other power clan out of this. Why should you need them anyways? You claim to be so great at PvP :-)
I don't run fraps, however I have 57 ingame recordings. I trust the fact that the clan/toon names aren't available doesn't take away from the fact that they are all a and s grade characters (as you can see from their equipment and skills) who die quite effortlessly.
you look like a ****** bag
Well I guess if I look like one, might as well act like one. :) Enjoy
BTW, care to share your toon name and what clan you are in, or are you afraid?
In RR's defense they are still rebuilding and growing after Nova beat the **** out of them, but they did actually keep warring Nova even against the odds which I respect.
Maybe I'm just out of touch with the mentality of the upper echelon players, or maybe I'm more of a "pick your battles, don't let them pick you sort of guy".
1. one entity wasting it's resources.. in this particular case: exp, adena spent on cp pots and other typical pvp relevant consumables in skirmishes against an adversary which it demonstrates time and time again it cannot defeat using the tactics that it has at it's disposal. example: a mob armed with only hand guns vs heavy armor vehicles. no matter how skilled the mob with the guns and how many of them there are, well.. i won't beat a dead horse on the issue ;) This warrants respect? maybe in a religious cult, historically those reward mindless zealotry.
2. I've been out of the game for awhile, but am i to understand that RR is the clan formerly known as Rescue Rangers and/or Puppyrawr from erica? I seem to recall them exercising the same Oppressive tactics that they are falling victim to with this Nova clan. If this is not the same clan, I stand corrected, and apologize.
Just contributing to the thread, not trying to flame anyone. thoughts?
Originally Posted by xxGreenMachinexx
you look like a ****** bag
Well guess this thread was respectful til some have to show what I have said. OH well guess should have known.
Anyhow that is his toons name DarkFireBiggs, guess there is no love for you... Or is rival clan.. Enjoy the pvp you two ....
I have to say it is fun to see the different opinons and suggestions for sure and I will continue to exp my toons up so I can enjoy rest of the things the game offers, heck I found out couple of weeks ago lmao some higher things we can do in the game that never knew was there :)
Siege weekend woot.. see some of you there time to practice that pvp in game so I can get better at it :)
the Noob I am at it... But hey Mgz sure enjoyed my 5 minutes of it, at least once I did some good hehe. I actually miss Nova at seiges but then again time to move on sides the last seige was fun as well at Gludio..
OH one guestion for anyone.... If a clan is not signed up and they attack whether in war or not they still lose exp out of it? I know they use to but someone said they still do. Reason for asking is we were wared for the seige but was so they didnt loose 4%.. not as much but that they still do lose some cause they were not signed.
Thanks
If you aren't signed up to a siege but have declared war, then you will take a war death instead of a siege death (war death is 1/2 xp loss, siege death is no xp loss)
Nice seige at Shug yesterday and the politics omg what a cluster mess. I have to say sure use to know what and where some clans stand but yesterday I do not think anyone knew.
Have to say Divine Trinity did outstanding for the numbers and clans that defended even ones not signed up. Like 80 to 27..
What I did not understand is why Catalyst, RR, DW came in to just kill... Thought they were agaisnt PC and IS and the affliated clans. And also against each other...Reminded me of when Nova came in and killed everyone just cause they could. I would have thought that because they were enemies and that they would have been just there to kill them. Not that it mattered we still did good.. Everyone there did good no trash talking was alot of fun to end. So grats to PC for keeping and IS and CH and others that were there good job was alot of fun..
Just a mess of politics I guess cause who knows who's with who anymore. Hope some can clarify that for us..
Take care see ya today at seiges maybe have some more fun again ...
Nice seige at Shug yesterday and the politics omg what a cluster mess. I have to say sure use to know what and where some clans stand but yesterday I do not think anyone knew.
Have to say Divine Trinity did outstanding for the numbers and clans that defended even ones not signed up. Like 80 to 27..
What I did not understand is why Catalyst, RR, DW came in to just kill... Thought they were agaisnt PC and IS and the affliated clans. And also against each other...Reminded me of when Nova came in and killed everyone just cause they could. I would have thought that because they were enemies and that they would have been just there to kill them. Not that it mattered we still did good.. Everyone there did good no trash talking was alot of fun to end. So grats to PC for keeping and IS and CH and others that were there good job was alot of fun..
Just a mess of politics I guess cause who knows who's with who anymore. Hope some can clarify that for us..
Take care see ya today at seiges maybe have some more fun again ...
LOL?
RR is out to KILL: Para, Outika, DW (DeathWish), Catalyst.
Whoever was helping them is either (A) X member of RR (B) Someone going rogue and starting something up
Please provide me the name so I can check in to it.
Maybe I'm just out of touch with the mentality of the upper echelon players, or maybe I'm more of a "pick your battles, don't let them pick you sort of guy".
1. one entity wasting it's resources.. in this particular case: exp, adena spent on cp pots and other typical pvp relevant consumables in skirmishes against an adversary which it demonstrates time and time again it cannot defeat using the tactics that it has at it's disposal. example: a mob armed with only hand guns vs heavy armor vehicles. no matter how skilled the mob with the guns and how many of them there are, well.. i won't beat a dead horse on the issue ;) This warrants respect? maybe in a religious cult, historically those reward mindless zealotry.
2. I've been out of the game for awhile, but am i to understand that RR is the clan formerly known as Rescue Rangers and/or Puppyrawr from erica? I seem to recall them exercising the same Oppressive tactics that they are falling victim to with this Nova clan. If this is not the same clan, I stand corrected, and apologize.
Just contributing to the thread, not trying to flame anyone. thoughts?
1 mindless "player who thinks he's everything" doesn't represent RR as a whole. W/E you read in L2blah and/or here is just stuff trying to excite "conflict."
LOL?
RR is out to KILL: Para, Outika, DW (DeathWish), Catalyst.
Whoever was helping them is either (A) X member of RR (B) Someone going rogue and starting something up
Please provide me the name so I can check in to it.
noone was helping them, the post you quoted doesn't say anything about that.
That still did not answer why RR was killing DT, or is it because we attack a castle of your friends? Just a question
Any how good seige and also good seige yesterday at gludio Good pvp and congrats for 5th Element on the castle.. you all keep coming like the energizer bunny kept going and going.....good job to all that attacked.
Sorry Tanom for the loss of the castle you all did great holding til last five minutes :( never know maybe next time can get it back.
Biggs and Palau: Great back and forth and good points from both of you.
Yes this game has a focus on PvE, but I disagree with lasers here that it is 95% PvE. This game is more of a graduated scale. At low levels, yes it is mostly if not all PvE, but as the levels get higher, so does the percentage of PvP. Once you hit S grade, I would say that it is 50/50 if not more PvP over the PvE.
It becomes more pvp if you WANT it to. Who said that someone has to engage in PvP?
That still did not answer why RR was killing DT, or is it because we attack a castle of your friends? Just a question
I really have no idea, when i saw RR there i first thought they were gonna mess with us, but they didn't because they wanted DW primairly, not sure why they killed you guys aswell :/
noone was helping them, the post you quoted doesn't say anything about that.
What I did not understand is why Catalyst, RR, DW came in to just kill... Thought they were agaisnt PC and IS and the affliated clans. And also against each other...
[Helping you "understand" the message.]
We only come to your siege to hunt down the wartargets not the siege itself. RR doesn't care who takes the castle as long its not a wartarget (Para,Outika,DW,Cata,Theresistance, First, etc etc etc...) PC and IS are neutral to RR, please update your knowledge on politics. RR encourages these types of scrimmages -again- we're here to help (but not our enemies of course.)
When RR came in I did not know any of these war clans where there... it seemed the three came in all at once... Maybe im wrong r could it be my lagg watching it..which is possible but all sok anyhow... it was fun ... IS and PC nuetral with RR isnt that actually sided if agaisnt Cata etc and DW? just trying to understand some politics...
PC and IS are neutral to RR, please update your knowledge on politics.
REALLY?!?! Since when?!? I guess your idea of neutral is not the same as the dictionary's definition. Just in case you don't know what the dictionary says about being neutral.
1.not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others: 2.not aligned with or supporting any side or position in a controversy:
IS and PC are in bed with RR, not what I would call neutral.
Saturday's Shuggardt siege was a friendly match between all4one/PC/Nuku's playmates versus DivineTrinity.
DivineTrinity pushed for the gates, opened up main gate and then DW/Cata showed up. DW/Cata killed both DivineTrinity and defenders.
Then RR showed up for DW/Cata. DivineTrinity continued to push but got rolled by RR.
Was a good friendly match guys.
Heard in vent DT fired the first shot then a call went on to engage anyone that attacks to put them down. (Rules of engagement 101: Don't fire unless fire upon)
Lesson: Just ignore the RR roaming about in sieges unless you wish to start trouble :/
REALLY?!?! Since when?!? I guess your idea of neutral is not the same as the dictionary's definition. Just in case you don't know what the dictionary says about being neutral.
1.not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others: 2.not aligned with or supporting any side or position in a controversy:
IS and PC are in bed with RR, not what I would call neutral.
well when you get warred by the same clans you would assume there be some sort of alliance but no there isn't. Do you see the same ally tag on RR and IS? no? Keep the QQ'ing coming because thats pretty much what your doing right :>
Definition of QQ'ing: Complaining about something that will probably not 'ever' get changed.
Example: Getting pked, Getting trained, Getting pwned, and Tika. ~gg :)
[Helping you "understand" the message.]
You don't need to help understand, we were there, you weren't, i think we understand what happened by just being there ;)
The only thing that baffles me at times is that politics seem to be a bit screwed up atm after Nova left the server, i.e. it's 'rebuilding' on a trail and error basis.
Saturday's Shuggardt siege was a friendly match between all4one/PC/Nuku's playmates versus DivineTrinity.
DivineTrinity pushed for the gates, opened up main gate and then DW/Cata showed up. DW/Cata killed both DivineTrinity and defenders.
Then RR showed up for DW/Cata. DivineTrinity continued to push but got rolled by RR.
Biggs... you really should not talk. You completely failed at Oren's siege... You should definantly quit L2 or turn off Walker and learn howto play your toon. You look like an idiot now for all your posts mr. ikill6manpartiesalone. I am still laughing at you.
IS and PC are in bed with RR, not what I would call neutral.
Really? Man, I gotta check the PC forum ...
... checking ...
No RR there... seems to me that some of our peeps have issues with RR and some have friends there, most have both...
I guess I could check the list of wars we have...
... checking ...
Nope, nothing... No wars, 3 clans "attacking" us, but no wars...
But, still you must know something that I, as a member of PC, don't have access to... I guess I better start making "nice nice" with RR peeps since I will soon be sleeping with them...
Biggs... you really should not talk. You completely failed at Oren's siege... You should definantly quit L2 or turn off Walker and learn howto play your toon. You look like an idiot now for all your posts mr. ikill6manpartiesalone. I am still laughing at you.
1 mindless "player who thinks he's everything" doesn't represent RR as a whole. W/E you read in L2blah and/or here is just stuff trying to excite "conflict."
fair enough, education FTW. oh and read my sig.. apply to you? ;) and oh, I don't read L2blah, i have a hard enough time sifting through the nonsense HERE for anything useful. take care.
hmm, I guess i need more coffee.. but i came back and re-read the quote. I wasn't making some off the wall sweeping generalization of RR by any means, just providing an observation for "greendude" or whatever his name is, and with the comment about RR and Erica was just letting my mind wander back to the Erica days of Boffa and all those knuckleheads. Is the clan the same as it was then, probably not.. but to disregard history in L2 is to disregard an important "measurable" this game has. that was for the what's past.. is past comment I recall seeing a few posts up.
Nice seige at Shug yesterday and the politics omg what a cluster mess. I have to say sure use to know what and where some clans stand but yesterday I do not think anyone knew.
Have to say Divine Trinity did outstanding for the numbers and clans that defended even ones not signed up. Like 80 to 27..
What I did not understand is why Catalyst, RR, DW came in to just kill... Thought they were agaisnt PC and IS and the affliated clans. And also against each other...Reminded me of when Nova came in and killed everyone just cause they could. I would have thought that because they were enemies and that they would have been just there to kill them. Not that it mattered we still did good.. Everyone there did good no trash talking was alot of fun to end. So grats to PC for keeping and IS and CH and others that were there good job was alot of fun..
Just a mess of politics I guess cause who knows who's with who anymore. Hope some can clarify that for us..
Take care see ya today at seiges maybe have some more fun again ...
Ya was crazy at the start. We thought DW/Cata/Para were there with you guys..? lol guess not - and then rr came to kill them as they are wartags.
I guess all these others clans just ended up there at the start. The rest of the siege was a bit more normal. Anyway it was a good siege - having the door and path to scribe down for the duration kept us on our toes. Was some good fights there.
<snip> IS and PC nuetral with RR isnt that actually sided if agaisnt Cata etc and DW? just trying to understand some politics...
REALLY?!?! Since when?!? I guess your idea of neutral is not the same as the dictionary's definition. Just in case you don't know what the dictionary says about being neutral.
1.not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others: 2.not aligned with or supporting any side or position in a controversy:
IS and PC are in bed with RR, not what I would call neutral.
Ya to clear up PC/IS are not in some kinda alliance with RR. We are neutral to them - its just IS (PC was warring Para but not anymore) has similar wars which were already in place. There has been no joining in with wars just because RR is warring them, and no arrangements or joint planning.
We have nothing against RR and many other clans which have been nice. We just play the game, have fun and do stuff :)
Hey, if I am in bed with someone, why do they keep leaving before I wake up?
**** you Pearlene, I want my pants back!!!!
Thanks for the answers to some of my guestions Darkrich (learning experience) Maybe one day Palau be good pvper .. grats on keeping your castle.. As you well know we dont ask for help we just roll in lmao.. and roll out hehe they had fun. Even though some thought we do call in help but no we dont call in for back up.... wish I could have been there besides the sidelines watching, stupid sprint aircard l kept lagging out maybe next time i can join in.. was fun watching though
Thanks for the answers to some of my guestions Darkrich (learning experience) Maybe one day Palau be good pvper .. grats on keeping your castle.. As you well know we dont ask for help we just roll in lmao.. and roll out hehe they had fun. Even though some thought we do call in help but no we dont call in for back up.... wish I could have been there besides the sidelines watching, stupid sprint aircard l kept lagging out maybe next time i can join in.. was fun watching though
You do fine, and yup you guys have the right sorta mindset, always a good clean and fun siege :) As they should be, for mass fun.
Well time to move on Nova is gone and do not think any clan will follow in their steps for a while.. and Sayha is not Nova :)
Yeah at this point Eof is not with anyone but DWO :) we to small to think of anything right now.. Just to pve OMG its that three letters again. Pvp at sieges for now and have fun..
Go go Rockies and Bronco's opps wrong game me bad....
I have enjoyed chatting with everyone here, heck of a lot better then l2 blah :)
Lets see... Para wars everyone, PKs those that don't declare back yet peeps are supposed to "Help them".
That's nice...
being a ex paradygm officer i might can clear things up for you
para was formed and rr wanted the new made clan to already war nova and fight along side rr
other clans were taking /picking on us as a new made clan back then .
so being new made clan we defended our ***** when atked
then once the clans that started the bs with us realized that we arent a total nonfactor clan
they wanted cease fire and wars dropped
so we had alot of cease fires which got broken by the other clans once again cuz their members just felt like going red on para we told our members to start returning the Pleasure back towards the clans that started it
so to answer your question quick tabbi , when i read your post there i am assuming your in one of the clans that did think that could take on paradygm
pretty much at the end since ppl do not know what politics are
as example look at that oren siege 3 weeks ago when outika lost their castle
Paradygm ran over to castle with 1 and a half grp or 2 grps half *** gimped
and all4one ( not really with anyone but themself ) comes in from ivory tower i believe with at least 40-60 ppl and runs over paradygm
back to town regrping all4one alrdy took castle by then
para and outika regrped and moved towards castle
and then when u think now with 4 grps of para/outika it could be a awesome pvp happening , no
instead u get the 40-60 ppl of all4one + 10 kk + 3 novavitas + 50 ppl from IS against the 4 grps of outika/para , that being said , they all say they are independent and all that was wtf zerg 4 grps trying to retake a castle against 120 ppl ? and then spreading the word Good fight in shouts ?
ya i am finished speaking about it , anyways i was just helping tabbi out explaining to him/her what happend from the inside of paradygm
not paradygm anymoore so if u have some fun i could join pm me ingame or mail me ingame
Clears things up? Sure, it clears up that para are/were a bunch of, well... i'm better than that.
I'm in PC, we are a PvE clan, we don't war.
How many different para went red on me? Let's just say its a number greater than 10.
We are an IS ally, but didn't join the war until we got PKed so many times that we had to return the war just to reduce the xp loss. Even then we didn't go looking for para to gank, but could at least fight back in honor.
Nice fairy tale you tell there Dan, too bad it is so unbelievable on the face of it that everyone is laughing.
Clears things up? Sure, it clears up that para are/were a bunch of, well... i'm better than that.
I'm in PC, we are a PvE clan, we don't war.
How many different para went red on me? Let's just say its a number greater than 10.
We are an IS ally, but didn't join the war until we got PKed so many times that we had to return the war just to reduce the xp loss. Even then we didn't go looking for para to gank, but could at least fight back in honor.
Nice fairy tale you tell there Dan, too bad it is so unbelievable on the face of it that everyone is laughing.
I.S love PvP and you love PvE.
In my opinion I.S should form an alliance with {RIP} instead.
In my opinion I.S should form an alliance with {RIP} instead.
LOL +1
Seriously, IS does PvP more (alot more) than we do, but we both understand that there are more than 1 aspect to the game and we have many common interests. Its a good alliance and a benefit to both clans, besides we bring the **** to IS... ;)
So a PvE clan is allied with one of the bigger PvP clans on the server. Why? IS has wars galore out there, so why would a non war clan and a PvE clan ally with a war clan? What is the reason for this ally? It makes no sense to me.
Maybe Lasers is right, maybe RIP should ally with IS and your clan should go to a PvE ally, like Divine Trinity.
Seriously, IS does PvP more (alot more) than we do, but we both understand that there are more than 1 aspect to the game and we have many common interests. Its a good alliance and a benefit to both clans, besides we bring the **** to IS... ;)
(IS == Infinitely ****)
+1
very **** indeed :)
EDIT: screenshot removed. Let old grudge be forgotten :):)
So a PvE clan is allied with one of the bigger PvP clans on the server. Why? IS has wars galore out there, so why would a non war clan and a PvE clan ally with a war clan? What is the reason for this ally? It makes no sense to me.
Maybe Lasers is right, maybe RIP should ally with IS and your clan should go to a PvE ally, like Divine Trinity.
Why does everyone want IS & PC to split up? Im sorry but what does it matter if a so called PVP clan allies with a so called PVE clan? Does it effect your game play?
There alot of PVE in the game so everyone PVE's, IS & PC have been friends and been doing raids together for a long time before the alliance was formed.
I have to slightly disagree with Tabbi in that yes PC does PVE but they also fight back, if war is brought to them? Did the war with Para not show that? (Not meaning any offence to Para) but war was declared on PC and PC declared back and fun was had by all (I hope)
TabbiMaeClears things up? Sure, it clears up that para are/were a bunch of, well... i'm better than that.
well that was kind of a comic responce, did not type out the way I ment it.. I dont know much about Para or what goes on between ya's clans. I was being fusious ( where is the spell check?....
So a PvE clan is allied with one of the bigger PvP clans on the server. Why? IS has wars galore out there, so why would a non war clan and a PvE clan ally with a war clan? What is the reason for this ally? It makes no sense to me.
Maybe Lasers is right, maybe RIP should ally with IS and your clan should go to a PvE ally, like Divine Trinity.
Divine Trinity alliance does pve but we do pvp, and do defend so we are considered Jack of all trades master of none yet :D Always like that saying.... but definatley not just pve .. have to level some how right? :)
Why does everyone want IS & PC to split up? Im sorry but what does it matter if a so called PVP clan allies with a so called PVE clan? Does it effect your game play?
There alot of PVE in the game so everyone PVE's, IS & PC have been friends and been doing raids together for a long time before the alliance was formed.
I have to slightly disagree with Tabbi in that yes PC does PVE but they also fight back, if war is brought to them? Did the war with Para not show that? (Not meaning any offence to Para) but war was declared on PC and PC declared back and fun was had by all (I hope)
Naw I think IS and PC and the whole alliance work good to best of what i see. I dont think the whole alliance needs to be pvp only... Remember back in days a allinace soemtimes had a pvp clan to protect mostly the whole alliance.. not that they all didnt help each other but it works....
opps i forgot to say I agree Ad1eUK on your post.. why i put your quote here is beyond me but anyhow everyone knows what i was saying :)
So a PvE clan is allied with one of the bigger PvP clans on the server. Why? IS has wars galore out there, so why would a non war clan and a PvE clan ally with a war clan? What is the reason for this ally? It makes no sense to me.
Maybe Lasers is right, maybe RIP should ally with IS and your clan should go to a PvE ally, like Divine Trinity.