NOW I know why ppl use this stupid bannable programs....
Cause ppl are not robots and korean random is the stupidest random ever....and it makes ppl cheat, and use programs, im not the case, but im sick and tired of korean random... ive been trying to spoil DC helmet recipe %60 on beast farm over than a month now.... and nothing....but why do i get other recipes? and they have lower chance of dropping?
is this something only i expirience or that happens to everyone?
and why my spoil is not going through on mobs they never getting blue :(((
out of 10 if lucky 2 will go blue ??
wtf???
Yeah, the random can be a little too random sometimes. Like once i was farming a helm rec myself, and i got it on the second mob! But i decided to get my prophet word of fear (back b4 the books dropped) and it took me three days going out for hours a day! Botting however, is not the answer. Like Naeadil said, if you can get from 63-69, botting wont really help ur odds anyway! :P
Hmm, don't feel so bad, you are going to feel much worse after you attempt the helm craft and it fails. :P
Try, crafting it 4 times IN A ROW...and failing it ALL 4 TIMES.
Then, substitute DC Helmet for Draconic Boots, and that was my last week.
...
60% SUCCESS MY ***!!
I HATE YOU L2!!
/rage!!
Seriously, that actually happened. After the 3rd failure I was like like, there is NO WAY this can fail AGAIN...and yet...-poof- all your mats have disappeared...no yellow text :'(
This game is so broken in its crafting system with the fail/success ratio. It's no wonder hardly anyone puts the effort into crafting and it's why s-grade is so expensive.
Try, crafting it 4 times IN A ROW...and failing it ALL 4 TIMES.
Then, substitute DC Helmet for Draconic Boots, and that was my last week.
...
60% SUCCESS MY ***!!
I HATE YOU L2!!
/rage!!
Seriously, that actually happened. After the 3rd failure I was like like, there is NO WAY this can fail AGAIN...and yet...-poof- all your mats have disappeared...no yellow text :'(
This game is so broken in its crafting system with the fail/success ratio. It's no wonder hardly anyone put the effort into crafting and s-grade is so expensive.
+1
I once was able to craft 9 A grade armors in a row. But I have also failed 5 dc robes in a row >.<
Made 10 success crafts yesterday, i a raw. Failed the 11 one :( The 11-th one was Forgoten blade :eek: Wile the 10 i made successful are worth all together 200 mil max :mad:
But no bigy made a FB 3 days a go with succes so crafting is not that bad. I personally love it, is a lot of drama in it.
random = bad
60% = joke
spoil table = broken
korean developers = lol
bot = wtf!!!???
you = lol
L2 is fine as it is with the exception of all the bots (players that find the game to hard for them and that wishes they had started to play Counter Strike instead)
At what point i said game is not fine? whats not fine is this crap random/chance thing.
thats why there are lots and lots of threads like this, players are tired of that stupidy ramdom thing or trying to spoil an recipe for 1 week an simple blow it up in a few seconds with tons of mats that takes like 6 months to colect.
I prefer to do a quest twice harder and use 20% more mats to get what i need instead of simple trust in luck.
Luck is good for the materwork items. For the other things is just painfull. dont aggree?? I don't care.
At what point i said game is not fine? whats not fine is this crap random/chance thing.
thats why there are lots and lots of threads like this, players are tired of that stupidy ramdom thing or trying to spoil an recipe for 1 week an simple blow it up in a few seconds with tons of mats that takes like 6 months to colect.
I prefer to do a quest twice harder and use 20% more mats to get what i need instead of simple trust in luck.
Luck is good for the materwork items. For the other things is just painfull. dont aggree?? I don't care.
in the post I quoted and the text I have made bold for you
L2 is fine as it is with the exception of all the bots (players that find the game to hard for them and that wishes they had started to play Counter Strike instead)
I disagree. There're way too much random here... 2500 items, you need 2x if you use IC, ofc chance to get lol MA rcp and that would not be enough they added ADENA!!!!! but w8!!! insted of 50kk or other decent amount they added LOLAMOUNT of adena which you can buy 2 scr's...
:)
why you are so angry?
i know its frustrating when things don't go as they are planned, but now try to check what you are asking. basically its 100% success.
OK, lets make random not random anymore. 60% means, that hmm, from 10 crafted items 6 should succeed and 4 fail. OK, i take lets say 60% B grade recipe that needs nothing for craft and lets craft:
1 - success
2 - success
3 - fail
4 - fail
5 - success
6 - fail
7 - fail
8-....
oh wait, 4 failed!
now i take my S80 dynasty earring recipe and i will craft it. according to not random rules i failed 4 crafts already so the rest will be successful.
this is the random you want? the only other random is now what you get, it may fail and it may not. the risk makes the game fun.
and yes, i was trying to get recipe from drop myself, i was sitting month on a mobs that are not for a tank class to kill just because for the recipe and guess what - no drop. and after that i went on other mobs and got recipe from first mob. was kinda funny, especially after all 4 i got (till mobs got blue) i failed ( to buy item would have been cheaper ;) ) anyway, its a luck. and i prefer lower luck rate that all those +16 S grade weapons that are in game now, but thats another topic, plus im sure i feel bad about them just because i don't have it ;)
In my opinion most players (heck, most people) misunderstand the nature of statistical probability. A short and simple method to deal with crafting in L2 is:
Assume for a minute the craft will fail and think, can you take that loss? If the answer is anything whatsoever except a very clear "yes", don't do it.
Assume for a minute the craft will fail and think, can you take that loss? If the answer is anything whatsoever except a very clear "yes", don't do it.
Excellent answer! The % are real but always apply to the particular click you do, so you can fail 10 things in a row or craft 10 things in a row with success.
I love the craft part of this game, even if the results from it are a %, knowing what to craft and when to craft it to assure a profit out of it (even when failing) is knowledge and skill.
i know lots of people that failed 5 crafts in a row, dont know 1 that had 5 succes with a 60% chance. And do you really thing that 5 fails is affordable? even for B grade is a hell lots of materials.
The % are real but always apply to the particular click you do, so you can fail 10 things in a row or craft 10 things in a row with success.
If you can use a programming language it is very easy to see this behavior in action. Look what I just got for ten tries at 60%:
This one succeeded in 9 tries in a row, i.e. he could have crafted 9 Draconic Bows without failure.
Anyone who has played tabletop RPGs, where you roll dice to do things, should be familiar with those seemingly weird -but in fact perfectly normal- random patterns!
What does all this tell us? Simply that 60% is just that: 60% :)
In my opinion most players (heck, most people) misunderstand the nature of statistical probability. A short and simple method to deal with crafting in L2 is:
Assume for a minute the craft will fail and think, can you take that loss? If the answer is anything whatsoever except a very clear "yes", don't do it.
Very well said!
Everytime I find myself saying some form of "it CAN'T fail again"---I generally end up with more crystals (enchants) or saying bad words at my computer (crafts).
I assume EVERYTHING will fail and that NOTHING will fall/spoil--it's just less frustrating that way.
(and yes folks, with a 60% chance of success you could absolutely fail 20x in a row. EACH time is 60% success/40% fail--you could theoretically fail forever!)
L2 is fine as it is with the exception of all the bots (players that find the game to hard for them and that wishes they had started to play Counter Strike instead)
i'm totally desagree : spoil table is broken/
Spoiling met fiber on mob lvl 80+ is piece of ch..t !!
FS are useless for crafting S80.
Maestro are useless after craft lvl9 aka lvl 70 for the dorf.
i'm totally desagree : spoil table is broken/
Spoiling met fiber on mob lvl 80+ is piece of ch..t !!
FS are useless for crafting S80.
Maestro are useless after craft lvl9 aka lvl 70 for the dorf.
wow I thought everyone had one thing in mind when it came to dwarfs and that is "They should sit in Giran 24/7 and only be alts".
I play a maestro (used to play it as my main) until I gave up waiting for NC to fix the craft system (higher lvl required to craft S grade and up), but since most of the dwarfs are alts no one is complaining and nothing will be done.
wow I thought everyone had one thing in mind when it came to dwarfs and that is "They should sit in Giran 24/7 and only be alts".
I play a maestro (used to play it as my main) until I gave up waiting for NC to fix the craft system (higher lvl required to craft S grade and up), but since most of the dwarfs are alts no one is complaining and nothing will be done.
So you "lol" at someone who says there are things broken in this game and then you say you quit your dwarf because there are things broken in this game.
I know it's a game that takes years to get top lvl and top equipment.
I know it's a game that requires several players to work together to reach a goal.
I know it's a game that requires several different classes to work together to gather items needed to craft items.
I know it's a game that is alot of PvE to reach a goal.
I know it's a game that doesn't require you to PvP to reach a goal unless it is to get the epics.
So please tell me what part of the concept of L2 don't I understand?
Oh please. If you don't think L2's craft/drop/economic system is broken you are lying to yourself. PLEASE tell me a game where it takes THIS much effort to craft and get gear equivalent to your level. And you know, no one plays the game like it's intended anymore. IF they WERE no-one; aside from people in the TOP clans that are farming the epic bosses and a select few devoted others- would NOT have s-grade.
Let me give you an example...
you = lol
L2 is fine as it is with the exception of all the bots (players that find the game to hard for them and that wishes they had started to play Counter Strike instead)
Please, tell me that you honestly farmed/seeded the mats it would take to craft yourself an s-grade set. Even harder than the mats, farmed the quest to get the specific (korean random) recipe you needed. I'm sure you haven't otherwise you wouldn't be talking about how l2 is 'laid-out perfectly fine'.
I'll inform you just how much effort this takes. Say you are a nuker (the best class to farm the quest) and want to craft yourself an Arcana set (the cheapest/easiest to get of the 3 sets).
It would take a nuker who plays an average amount of time per day, 3-5 days to get the 800 manes you need for one-turn in. Assuming you can get around 200 a day which is a moderate amount for a nuker. When you turn in the quest items, you have a 3/11 chance of getting the recipe you actually need/want. The options are arcana helm/gloves/boots, IC helm/gloves/boots/shield, drac helm/gloves/boot and also...nothing. You could turn in your weeks worth and get no recipe at all. (korean random again)
If you don't get arcana, you can try and sell/trade the other recipe by sitting in girin shouting for a few days for a trade- or keeping a sell shop up for a few days to sell it. Then, when you finally get the recipe you need from the quest or sell the recipes you don't need and buy the recipes you do need- then you need to craft it with the POSSIBILITY that you could just fail it 5-times in a row.
Repeat this until you have arcana boots/gloves/helm...Hopefully you'll get this in maybe....3-6 months if you stay exping only in varka and playing the market.
Okay now onto the HARD part. The arcana robe is a 1/5 chance (drac la/ic top/bottom/arcana robe/nothing) The turn in for this requires instead of 800 quest items- around 3000 quest items (and bear in mind the turn-in for this has a higher chance of getting no recipe at all). If you do manage to get the recipe you need; the craft takes about as much s-cry/s-gems as an s-weapon craft and takes about 3x the number of mats that the small armour parts like the boots/gloves/helm needed AND there is a possible chance to fail (maybe even 5 times in a row- thanks korean random).
THAT'S a big loss. For anyone. It doesn't matter if you can afford to fail 3-4 times or not, it's still a major loss/waste of time. That could be even a year wasted if you were honestly legit about all of it and played casually.
Now, if you're a melee class- it takes almost double the time to farm the quest items needed. And yet, you see many people running around in s-grade armour. I don't think it's because they all put this kind of effort into crafting their set. Most people will just pay the ridiculous amount of money that it costs to just buy the set; because if you're unlucky...you'll be paying just as much if not more to craft the set and possibly fail and lose everything.
So you "lol" at someone who says there are things broken in this game and then you say you quit your dwarf because there are things broken in this game.
awesome.
The main reason I semi quit my dwarf was because no one took me in parties and I got tired of soloing.
That has nothing to do with the game, but is has to do with the players playing the game.
Oh please. If you don't think L2's craft/drop/economic system is broken you are lying to yourself. PLEASE tell me a game where it takes THIS much effort to craft and get gear equivalent to your level. And you know, no one plays the game like it's intended anymore. IF they WERE no-one; aside from people in the TOP clans that are farming the epic bosses and a select few devoted others- would NOT have s-grade.
I farmed other things that I sold until I could afford to buy my S grade set.
For my weapon I got all the mats needed, but someone was selling one in giran with SA very cheap so I ended up selling the mats and bought the weapon.
Let me give you an example...
Please, tell me that you honestly farmed/seeded the mats it would take to craft yourself an s-grade set. Even harder than the mats, farmed the quest to get the specific (korean random) recipe you needed. I'm sure you haven't otherwise you wouldn't be talking about how l2 is 'laid-out perfectly fine'.
I'll inform you just how much effort this takes. Say you are a nuker (the best class to farm the quest) and want to craft yourself an Arcana set (the cheapest/easiest to get of the 3 sets).
It would take a nuker who plays an average amount of time per day, 3-5 days to get the 800 manes you need for one-turn in. Assuming you can get around 200 a day which is a moderate amount for a nuker. When you turn in the quest items, you have a 3/11 chance of getting the recipe you actually need/want. The options are arcana helm/gloves/boots, IC helm/gloves/boots/shield, drac helm/gloves/boot and also...nothing. You could turn in your weeks worth and get no recipe at all. (korean random again)
Broken? I think so.
So you think that spending around 2-3 months to gather all you need for a S grade craft is to long? I find it normal.
I do agree that it sucks when a craft fails, but hey that's the 40% failrate that the crafts have.
If you don't dare to craft then gather the materials and sell and with the adena you get you buy the item from someone that takes the chances to craft and sell it for more he/she could had gotten from selling the mats.
The economy is not broken in L2 since its player driven. In few weeks I managed to turn 5m adena into almost 700m. In other words the economy is as good as you make it. If you are bad at playing the marked then the economy will suck for you, if you are good at playing it then the economy will be great for you.
after my first year of playing i started to craft things with all the mats/recipes i got from mobs and some manor/quests
I was able to craft 4 BO jewls 1 elysian and 1 blue wolf robe (that took off all my one year keeping mats), 1 year of playing not selling any basic mats, still i needed to buy some recipes, sops, iron ore, crystals, gemstones etc and transform all that into molds/higher grade mats, 1 year could simple be lost in 1 click... and you come to say that this is not a waste? that the game is fine? as i said before the OTHER parts or l2 are fine, this one sucks hard.
after my first year of playing i started to craft things with all the mats/recipes i got from mobs and some manor/quests
I was able to craft 4 BO jewls 1 elysian and 1 blue wolf robe (that took off all my one year keeping mats), 1 year of playing not selling any basic mats, still i needed to buy some recipes, sops, iron ore, crystals, gemstones etc and transform all that into molds/higher grade mats, 1 year could simple be lost in 1 click... and you come to say that this is not a waste? that the game is fine? as i said before the OTHER parts or l2 are fine, this one sucks hard.
you can gather that materials alot faster if you manor or spoil for them in the lvl 4x-6x range
I was able to craft 4 BO jewls 1 elysian and 1 blue wolf robe (that took off all my one year keeping mats), 1 year of playing not selling any basic mats, still i needed to buy some recipes, sops, iron ore, crystals, gemstones etc and transform all that into molds/higher grade mats, 1 year could simple be lost in 1 click... and you come to say that this is not a waste?
You decided to take the chance to click. You knew beforehand it could fail. You had the option to sell the recipes and materials before the click.
You call it waste, I call this player freedom to choose how to make (or break) his/her character.
You decided to take the chance to click. You knew beforehand it could fail. You had the option to sell the recipes and materials before the click.
You call it waste, I call this player freedom to choose how to make (or break) his/her character.
After that i promissed myself that ill never craft something with a 60% chance anymore, better to make a ton of money selling shots etc.
what do you expect? after another year now trying a S grade ill put my freedom to test and risk all the hard money i got just cause some people like to have heart attacks every time they press a button... dont you understand that people like to craft and every time someone like a clannie of mine loose 2 draconic boots attemps in a row just make people quit the crafting? seriously whats the point in make people feel bad loosing lots of things? I would like to craft a lot more, of course i dont wanna craft 1 draconic bow/set every day but i simple can' t afford or cant wait 1 more year to MAYBE get what i was aiming. Its cause of all this failures that prices of things hit billions, do you know how many money means billions? millions are already a hell lot of money to have imo, so, what for? to make people buy more adena? cause thats what happens, people cant stand all this failures and cheat.
This is a Korean game designed by Koreans for Koreans. As an amerasian who lived in Korea for a little while, I can tell you this game reflects their philosophical makeup lol. In all honesty I really believe this game is not a good fit for the more laid back, fun-loving nature of Westerners. I personally believe its just too hardcore for myself. I have gone from really being active to just a casual gamer now. I have topped out level at 78 on my doomcryer and 77 on my HE and both are in A grade still. I started playing this game 4 years ago and this is as far as I will get. The price and commitment necessary to upgrade my gear is far to challenging for me as a casual gamer to achieve. I do continue to enjoy logging in occasionally and I really dont have any negative comments to make about the game in general because it is what it is and some of us are right for it others like myself are not. I would be all for 100% crafts period considering the incredible effort it takes to accumulate the mats...this by the way would lead me to coming back as a regular player also real full drops would be nice again...lol it kinda kept me interested cause I loved the idea I could really get something special albeit a low chance and it lured me to log in more often. Oh well just my insight. Cheers.
I find this kinda funny, im new to retail L2 tbh. Played private servers for several years 1x (legally emulated servers with unmodified clients) and i can tell you your spoiled if you think its so hard to do this on retail and that it is so broken. If you dont like it then dont hang around. Its a hardcore grindgame from start to end. If you make sure to play the game for more then 10 hours everyday and know what your doing, you'll do just fine.
If you cant stand losing a few months then go play wow or some other carebear game for kids.
For this very reason I made an alt dagger to use as my craft slave for all 60% & 70% crafts. I rarely fail a craft any more and have gotten several crits/rare weapons from crafting with my dagger toon.
I find this kinda funny, im new to retail L2 tbh. Played private servers for several years 1x (legally emulated servers with unmodified clients) and i can tell you your spoiled if you think its so hard to do this on retail and that it is so broken. If you dont like it then dont hang around. Its a hardcore grindgame from start to end. If you make sure to play the game for more then 10 hours everyday and know what your doing, you'll do just fine.
If you cant stand losing a few months then go play wow or some other carebear game for kids.
LOL, make sure you play 10 hrs everyday? Sorry son but alot of us have careers and family etc. I find it funny that some folks can dedicate that kind of time to a virtual world. But you are right...this is a hardcore game no doubt, I only wished it wasnt quite as hard lol. I stand by my wish for 100% crafts and taking "some" of the chance outa this game. The requirements for crafting beyond S-grade is a challenge enough. Unfortunately in my opinion the unrealistic difficulty in some aspects of this game has contributed to the proliferation of cheating and exodus of players. I believe a few simple tweaks would make this game thrive again. 100% crafting, full drops, proper rewards for successful raids (mats, parts, etc along with at least 1 full drop), just a few examples of minor tweaks that could go a long way. Again just my opinion-cheers.
I find this kinda funny, im new to retail L2 tbh. Played private servers for several years 1x (legally emulated servers with unmodified clients) and i can tell you your spoiled if you think its so hard to do this on retail and that it is so broken. If you dont like it then dont hang around. Its a hardcore grindgame from start to end. If you make sure to play the game for more then 10 hours everyday and know what your doing, you'll do just fine.
If you cant stand losing a few months then go play wow or some other carebear game for kids.
its not cause is a hardcore grind game it must be a burden for lots of people... after your newbie being pass, you will see that your amazing 10h a day will nto be enough to beat all the cheaters.
ps.: get a life frist, after that come to talk about something you learned.
LOL, make sure you play 10 hrs everyday? Sorry son but alot of us have careers and family etc. I find it funny that some folks can dedicate that kind of time to a virtual world. But you are right...this is a hardcore game no doubt, I only wished it wasnt quite as hard lol. I stand by my wish for 100% crafts and taking "some" of the chance outa this game. The requirements for crafting beyond S-grade is a challenge enough. Unfortunately in my opinion the unrealistic difficulty in some aspects of this game has contributed to the proliferation of cheating and exodus of players. I believe a few simple tweaks would make this game thrive again. 100% crafting, full drops, proper rewards for successful raids (mats, parts, etc along with at least 1 full drop), just a few examples of minor tweaks that could go a long way. Again just my opinion-cheers.
I do have work to do aswell but i put in most of my freetime / sleeptime for L2. Im a university student and i work in a bar. I think you have at least as much freetime as i do.