I have a question, hoping for an official response:
Is it against the EULA to be in the same party with bots even if you are not running the program yourself?
There are several people on my server who have been doing this and have not been banned (though I do not know the fate of the bots who were leeching them).
Spam has said if you are in the party with bots when the hammer comes down, then you will be banned also, just report the party their in, if they get nailed they get nailed.
I believe that he also went on to explain that yes it is true that you are not using 3rd party programs, but you are recieving the benifit of the illegal programs.
I have a question, hoping for an official response:
Is it against the EULA to be in the same party with bots even if you are not running the program yourself?
There are several people on my server who have been doing this and have not been banned (though I do not know the fate of the bots who were leeching them).
Is it worth reporting these people anymore?
From what I understoon from Spam's comments were that if the party that you are in have bots in it and you are not a bot (but in a party of bots). Then don't be suprised if that, during the process of the GMs banning the bots, if the person that is not a bot but in the bot party gets hit by the ban hammer that the non-bot person should not be suprised.
Makes sense to me. If the guy thinks that he is safe by 'only' leaching but not botting, well, he's not safe.
If your partying with bots, your putting your account at risk. Its that simple, you are benefiting from the gains of a cheater and as such we consider you a cheater. We will not hesitate to remove you from the game.
If your partying with bots, your putting your account at risk. Its that simple, you are benefiting from the gains of a cheater and as such we consider you a cheater. We will not hesitate to remove you from the game.
Does that answer your question?
Thanks for the answer Akahige. I am glad to see your position on bots is this strong :)
If your partying with bots, your putting your account at risk. Its that simple, you are benefiting from the gains of a cheater and as such we consider you a cheater. We will not hesitate to remove you from the game.
Does that answer your question?
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard from a GM. You might as well ban every player in this game because we all have benefited from cheaters. Look around Giran, where do you think those raw mats come from. Better yet, where do you think all that AA comes from.
If your partying with bots, your putting your account at risk. Its that simple, you are benefiting from the gains of a cheater and as such we consider you a cheater. We will not hesitate to remove you from the game.
Does that answer your question?
how can you be asbolutely sure the people you are partied with arent botting? when it takes "time for a GM to recognize if a player is botting, so they make no mistakes when removing a player from the game" youre putting this responsibility on a player of the game, it isnt our job to know if someone is botting or not, its yours.
until you figure out a way to make it safe for people to party with other people then you should think about this statement.
if you're knowingly in a party with a botter, you deserve to be banned
if you're unknowingly in a party with a botter.. then maybe you should learn to play a bit first, and recognize a bot when you see one.. then 2nd you should accept the fact that shït happens and you weren't doing everything you could to prevent it from happening.
if you're knowingly in a party with a botter, you deserve to be banned
if you're unknowingly in a party with a botter.. then maybe you should learn to play a bit first, and recognize a bot when you see one.. then 2nd you should accept the fact that shït happens and you weren't doing everything you could to prevent it from happening.
Just like someone gets in your car with drugs on them, cop pulls you over finds the drug in the car, officer I didn't know he had them, its your car right? Why didn't you make sure he didn't when he got in?
Same thing with your account, if you have any question someone is a botter, err on the side of caution not party them.
I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic, or agreeing with me... but yeah, you are still at fault for not being cautious enough.
Since we are using RL examples..Oh well, you didnt check the garbage can for that bomb that blew up, your fault! You didint ask all the passengers on the plane if they were gonna blow that **** up? YOUR FAULT! Next time be more cautious.
I didnt know I had to interrogate my party members before I exped.
Since we are using RL examples..Oh well, you didnt check the garbage can for that bomb that blew up, your fault! You didint ask all the passengers on the plane if they were gonna blow that **** up? YOUR FAULT! Next time be more cautious.
I didnt know I had to interrogate my party members before I exped.
You dont have to interrogate nobody but don't join a party and sit in a corner wile they start 24/7 pl you! I am shore it was referring to that, oh.... and siting afk on top of a catacomb is a no if you are partyed with the bot group down under :p
And trust me if a party member starts bot you will notice, maybe not on the spot but in time you will so b..s... us about "omg i r innocent got ban wile some ******* was booting in my party" dosnt go. I am shore GM's are not happy ban button fools, they do check whom they ban (well i dam hope this :))
again, why is it the players job to find out or check if someone is botting. It isn't by any means when i agree to the eula does it say that I cannot party with a certain player. Why should I have to check double check and constantly watch to see if my party member is botting or not botting? and for the most part in endgame parties to get 81/82+ people have to act much like robots, spam assisting, singing dancing every 2 minutes cov every 5, becomes very reptitive and "robot" like. And if I say, "hey you there" and he responds immediatley how am I supposed to know the difference between a bot and the most attentitive doomcryer NA.
So until the GM's come up with a way to protect the players from partying with an unlegit player, akihage spam pommo all need to rethink their policies on banning people who are partied with botters.
Simple fix. Do not allow multiple accounts. DO NOT allow ingame macros. If you are not officially allowed to these two things, then ANYONE/THING would be found in VIOLATION. NO auto follow, NO assists, not sort of automation of ANY sort.
You all whine about "BOT", yet you all INSIST on making the game have the ingame mechanics to support it.
Of course it's much too late to implement these changes, but do not continue to Birch about it when the player base is responsible for it!
Funny you should use the eula as a defense for the situation.
The terms of service also state that NC has the right to indefinately suspend your account on their own whim, for any reason or not.
Now which argument do you think holds more ground? The fact that there is no literature stating that you need to be aware of being in parties with bots, or the fact that NC has every right to cancel your account for any reason they see fit...?
Ignorance isn't a defense
And also, this isn't a democracy. So stop with your bïtching, it isn't going to get anybody anywhere
Funny you should use the eula as a defense for the situation.
The terms of service also state that NC has the right to indefinately suspend your account on their own whim, for any reason or not.
Now which argument do you think holds more ground? The fact that there is no literature stating that you need to be aware of being in parties with bots, or the fact that NC has every right to cancel your account for any reason they see fit...?
Ignorance isn't a defense
And also, this isn't a democracy. So stop with your bïtching, it isn't going to get anybody anywhere
then give me the tools to detect bots. a 100% no bs, way of knowing that I am partied with an unsafe unlegit person.
then give me the tools to detect bots. a 100% no bs, way of knowing that I am partied with an unsafe unlegit person.
I apologize but surplus eyes and brains removed from cadavers are way too expensive to dish out to L2 players even for a company as large as NCsoft. If it makes you feel any better, you are another fine example of a person who has gotten very far in L2 without those components. I'll go as far to say that you are a beacon of hope and a testament to what can be accomplished with perseverance...and little else. You're a lot like the common cockroach that sports a rudimentary nerve net. The German Cockroach can live for days even though it has been decapitated...and apparently you can play for years without learning anything. Simply remarkable.
Everyone take a good look at avyuirr, one of the true marvels of Mother Nature. Can it survive on its own? Will it live long? Will it procreate? Is it a mutation that may never be seen again? Only time will tell.
I apologize but surplus eyes and brains removed from cadavers are way too expensive to dish out to L2 players even for a company as large as NCsoft. If it makes you feel any better, you are another fine example of a person who has gotten very far in L2 without those components. I'll go as far to say that you are a beacon of hope and a testament to what can be accomplished with perseverance...and little else. You're a lot like the common cockroach that sports a rudimentary nerve net. The German Cockroach can live for days even though it has been decapitated...and apparently you can play for years without learning anything. Simply remarkable.
Everyone take a good look at avyuirr, one of the true marvels of Mother Nature. Can it survive on its own? Will it live long? Will it procreate? Is it a mutation that may never be seen again? Only time will tell.
Only time will tell...
Good game, kind sir.
I wonder how much of that went right over his head..
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard from a GM. You might as well ban every player in this game because we all have benefited from cheaters. Look around Giran, where do you think those raw mats come from. Better yet, where do you think all that AA comes from.
"Benefitting" here is gaining unfair advantage over other players.
Frankly, if I were the HGM and you were regularly "buying" mats from bots for way below the market values (i.e. values in average players' buyshops), you would be banned as well.
"Benefitting" here is gaining unfair advantage over other players.
Frankly, if I were the HGM and you were regularly "buying" mats from bots for way below the market values (i.e. values in average players' buyshops), you would be banned as well.
Which is why I'm glad you will never be a GM. There is NO way you can tell if the person you are buying from is not legit, unless you caught them in the act.
And to you smart ***** about the bots. So your telling me if an archer in your party went afk for 5 mins auto assisting..you would know? A BD went to go take a **** and use bot to do dances a few times..you would know? No, you wouldnt.
And i'm not ********, jsut stating my mind. I rather party with bots (not saying I do)than half you *** hats on this forum.
If your partying with bots, your putting your account at risk. Its that simple, you are benefiting from the gains of a cheater and as such we consider you a cheater. We will not hesitate to remove you from the game.
Does that answer your question?
That doesent answer only one question of me..
If i am in a party with clanmembers/other game friends/any toons and if some of them using an ilegall programm and idk who is using it 9 man party 3 use it for example but i cant realize who is using it... is that bannable too????
would you ban the other 6 ppl too only beacuse they are in party with them ???even if they dont know that some of the members is using a strange programm??
Also that would mean that i need to solo all the time to be sure???? isnt that a bit stupid?
again, why is it the players job to find out or check if someone is botting. It isn't by any means when i agree to the eula does it say that I cannot party with a certain player. Why should I have to check double check and constantly watch to see if my party member is botting or not botting? and for the most part in endgame parties to get 81/82+ people have to act much like robots, spam assisting, singing dancing every 2 minutes cov every 5, becomes very reptitive and "robot" like. And if I say, "hey you there" and he responds immediatley how am I supposed to know the difference between a bot and the most attentitive doomcryer NA.
So until the GM's come up with a way to protect the players from partying with an unlegit player, akihage spam pommo all need to rethink their policies on banning people who are partied with botters.
LF lineage 2 party condom.
stop the bs dont play with bots, and if you dont know they are bots how the heck should Nc know about them and ban them when you are in there party and is clueless.
OK let me rephrase. It is in your best interest to make sure that your clan mates, your friends and anyone you meet in game is not a bot. If you suspect anyone of being a bot, it's best not to group up with them and report them. If you do group with them you are putting your account at risk.
At this point in the game you guys know who is cheating and who is not cheating. Sometimes your wrong but in most cases your right. Use your head and be smart about how you play and who you play with.
I guess the GM would see the difference between a 8 man bot party in a cata with one guy sitting in the corridor leeching (-> ban all of them) and one guy in an otherwise "live" party automatically assisting/dancing (ban that one guy and maybe put the rest of the party on the "associates with botters, keep an eye on these players, maybe they sometimes go afk, too" list). Yes, it sucks that you from then on run around as a player with a record which is no longer 100% squeaky clean, but that's how it is and unless you do something wrong yourself (like leeching from the bot while being afk yourself), I would not expect a non-botting player to be banned.
It's difficult and depends a lot on the situation and the GM's judgement, so it's hard to give a single guideline which always holds true - e.g. there obviously is a difference between the BD going to the bathroom and turning on his nostromo for a minute and another party where the bd/sws/buffer all stand in a corner and do their thing from there for hours while the rest of the party is played live.
Also, I do not really buy the "you cannot tell if somebody in your party is botting" thing. Yes, maybe not if that guy goes afk for a minute to get a drink and keeps on assisting, but if it's for longer than that, you WILL notice it (he does not talk in chat/on vent, he assists on something the tank targets outside the room, etc.).
OK let me rephrase. It is in your best interest to make sure that your clan mates, your friends and anyone you meet in game is not a bot. If you suspect anyone of being a bot, it's best not to group up with them and report them. If you do group with them you are putting your account at risk.
At this point in the game you guys know who is cheating and who is not cheating. Sometimes your wrong but in most cases your right. Use your head and be smart about how you play and who you play with.
OK let me rephrase. It is in your best interest to make sure that your clan mates, your friends and anyone you meet in game is not a bot. If you suspect anyone of being a bot, it's best not to group up with them and report them. If you do group with them you are putting your account at risk.
At this point in the game you guys know who is cheating and who is not cheating. Sometimes your wrong but in most cases your right. Use your head and be smart about how you play and who you play with.
Couldn't say better. We're not blind... If we saw that some1 bots in our party it's up to us to kick him or risk for every1.
I guess the GM would see the difference between a 8 man bot party in a cata with one guy sitting in the corridor leeching (-> ban all of them) and one guy in an otherwise "live" party automatically assisting/dancing (ban that one guy and maybe put the rest of the party on the "associates with botters, keep an eye on these players, maybe they sometimes go afk, too" list). Yes, it sucks that you from then on run around as a player with a record which is no longer 100% squeaky clean, but that's how it is and unless you do something wrong yourself (like leeching from the bot while being afk yourself), I would not expect a non-botting player to be banned.
It's difficult and depends a lot on the situation and the GM's judgement, so it's hard to give a single guideline which always holds true - e.g. there obviously is a difference between the BD going to the bathroom and turning on his nostromo for a minute and another party where the bd/sws/buffer all stand in a corner and do their thing from there for hours while the rest of the party is played live.
I don't think we should teach how to do GM' work ;)
again, why is it the players job to find out or check if someone is botting. It isn't by any means when i agree to the eula does it say that I cannot party with a certain player. Why should I have to check double check and constantly watch to see if my party member is botting or not botting? and for the most part in endgame parties to get 81/82+ people have to act much like robots, spam assisting, singing dancing every 2 minutes cov every 5, becomes very reptitive and "robot" like. And if I say, "hey you there" and he responds immediatley how am I supposed to know the difference between a bot and the most attentitive doomcryer NA.
So until the GM's come up with a way to protect the players from partying with an unlegit player, akihage spam pommo all need to rethink their policies on banning people who are partied with botters.
LF lineage 2 party condom.if you are 81/82+ and you cannot notice if someone in your party is botting after 1 buff round... I would have to assume you did not level the character yourself.
I guess the GM would see the difference between a 8 man bot party in a cata with one guy sitting in the corridor leeching (-> ban all of them) and one guy in an otherwise "live" party automatically assisting/dancing (ban that one guy and maybe put the rest of the party on the "associates with botters, keep an eye on these players, maybe they sometimes go afk, too" list). Yes, it sucks that you from then on run around as a player with a record which is no longer 100% squeaky clean, but that's how it is and unless you do something wrong yourself (like leeching from the bot while being afk yourself), I would not expect a non-botting player to be banned.
It's difficult and depends a lot on the situation and the GM's judgement, so it's hard to give a single guideline which always holds true - e.g. there obviously is a difference between the BD going to the bathroom and turning on his nostromo for a minute and another party where the bd/sws/buffer all stand in a corner and do their thing from there for hours while the rest of the party is played live.
Also, I do not really buy the "you cannot tell if somebody in your party is botting" thing. Yes, maybe not if that guy goes afk for a minute to get a drink and keeps on assisting, but if it's for longer than that, you WILL notice it (he does not talk in chat/on vent, he assists on something the tank targets outside the room, etc.).
So when someone is not "botting" but using 3rd party programs that show certain items that we all know about, spam their cp etc, we "cannot" actually see them using that, or the ones where they can target people easier, once again those are almost impossible to know if someones a good player or just targeting well, for all u know he could have a nostromo for CP pot spamming (alot do) and target macros for enermy bishops.
Its obvious if someone is botting, not disputing that, but the largest factor ruining this game, for people who actually play the game, not carebear *******'s like you crybabys on these forums, are the people who are constantly cheating in pvp.
Which is why I'm glad you will never be a GM.
Yes, I see.
There is NO way you can tell if the person you are buying from is not legit, unless you caught them in the act.
You've completely (and maybe intentionally) missed the point. There is NO need for you to tell, as long as you aren't related. A shop is a shop is a shop, as long as it doesn't give you that unfair advantage over other market participants.
OMG, why is this thread going on and on about something we all know. Unless you started playing this game last week, you know. When your clan mates, your friends and anyone you group with is running a bot program, you know. When you PVP someone and they spam CP pots like its candy, you know. When you run to your favorite XPing spot and a team of “players” run from target to target like a well oiled Borg bording team, you know. When you talk in Ventilo/Team Speak and your friends drop down a channel to ask a question, you know. When your clan mate’s several alt n00b charcters are now running around in S grade after a few weeks in their new clan, you know.
If you suspect anyone of being a bot, it's best not to group up with them and report them. If you do group with them you are putting your account at risk.
It is painfully obviously to everyone, those that argue they can’t tell a bot in a group is just being silly.
OK let me rephrase. It is in your best interest to make sure that your clan mates, your friends and anyone you meet in game is not a bot. If you suspect anyone of being a bot, it's best not to group up with them and report them. If you do group with them you are putting your account at risk.
At this point in the game you guys know who is cheating and who is not cheating. Sometimes your wrong but in most cases your right. Use your head and be smart about how you play and who you play with.
So,
because NCSoft is and has always been unable to do their job right ever since this game launched it's all of the sudden MY JOB in their game to find out who bots and who doesn't in order to be able to avoid them - or I get banned?
Are you serious???
This is the top of the top, really - the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
It's not always that obvious...If I'm an archer assisting a main targeter and all I am required to do in the party is double-right-click his name to assist, can you really tell if I'm botting or not if I'm there and assist him well?
If I'm a BD in a Hellbound gp and separated from the sws so we dont cross dances/songs and all I have to do is stand/dance 4 dances/sit every 2 min and I pay attention enough to where I always dance right when the old ones go, can you tell if I am botting or not?
If NC has the ability to check by packets sent/received (I dont know if this is the case or not), then they might know for sure but would any of the other party members? In either case above would it be fair for the other party members to be banned?
I do agree that most cata gps and some others are pretty obvious, sometimes it isnt though. Should I refuse to group with an archer that is really good at assisting and assume he is a botter or not group a bd that is really good at keeping dances up and just assume that nobody can do that unless they have a program to help them?
We are not asking any customer to do "our job." We are asking that if you are in a party of 9 and 8 of them are bots, you leave it for your own safetly. It is that simple.
In every single case we have closed an account that was not botting but was in a botting party, it was painfully obvious that the party was botting.
Nine times out of ten, the "legit" account was actually being powerleveled by a bot group.
Don't worry about how repetitive your actions are. Our bot tests are specificly set to look for human interaction. If you are at your computer actually hitting the keys, we can tell. Even if you are not paying attention to the screen as you watch Dr.Who.
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard from a GM. You might as well ban every player in this game because we all have benefited from cheaters. Look around Giran, where do you think those raw mats come from. Better yet, where do you think all that AA comes from.
Sakon - did you read the post at all - it is in response to "what if I'm in a part of people botting, but I am not, will I get banned".
For the love of God people, please read the threads before responding.
because NCSoft is and has always been unable to do their job right ever since this game launched it's all of the sudden MY JOB in their game to find out who bots and who doesn't in order to be able to avoid them - or I get banned?
Are you serious???
This is the top of the top, really - the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Can I have your stuff when you quit the game - honestly please READ what people are posting...
Where was I whining beside pointing out the fact that some of you people do not know how to read.
2 posts in a row about the same topic = whine.
OK let me rephrase. It is in your best interest to make sure that your clan mates, your friends and anyone you meet in game is not a bot. If you suspect anyone of being a bot, it's best not to group up with them and report them. If you do group with them you are putting your account at risk.
At this point in the game you guys know who is cheating and who is not cheating. Sometimes your wrong but in most cases your right. Use your head and be smart about how you play and who you play with.
This is what my first post referred to. I doubt I misread anything.
I like the bluntness of Akahige. But what he is suggesting means that I as a customer have to look out because they weren't able to rid the game from bots till now. I don't like that.
If they were able to wipe all bots and close that chapter finally I would be happy to embrace that. The problem we are discussing here would be solved then anyway. However as long as they can't do that, they shouldn't make legit customers pay the price by banning them. That's my opinion.
As others have pointed out previously it's not always obvious if people in your group are botting. Especially buffers or healers. Also assisting archers. So most of the time you have no chance to avoid being in a party with bots. If they only ban power leveling customers like Spam suggested, I guess there can't be too many false positives there.
Nope... was catching up from reading the other day - if you bother to check when the people posted, you would be able to tell that I was reading them in order - but again.. looking at your first post, you show that you do not know how to read.
Nope... was catching up from reading the other day - if you bother to check when the people posted, you would be able to tell that I was reading them in order - but again.. looking at your first post, you show that you do not know how to read.
2 posts of you 7 minutes apart about the same thing - that's whining. It doesn't matter who you replied to.
OMG, why is this thread going on and on about something we all know. Unless you started playing this game last week, you know. When your clan mates, your friends and anyone you group with is running a bot program, you know. When you PVP someone and they spam CP pots like its candy, you know. When you run to your favorite XPing spot and a team of “players” run from target to target like a well oiled Borg bording team, you know. When you talk in Ventilo/Team Speak and your friends drop down a channel to ask a question, you know. When your clan mate’s several alt n00b charcters are now running around in S grade after a few weeks in their new clan, you know.
It is painfully obviously to everyone, those that argue they can’t tell a bot in a group is just being silly.
I agreed.
There are a few flags that people should always look for, the person is afk and is assiting you killing mobs while not been there? You only have one option, report that person to a GM.
Ofcourse if the person is there is hard for you to know if its botting or not, it will be hard as well for a GM, thats probably the reason people that you considering botting are still playing because during the time a GM watch them they were actually there, keep reporting them until they get the hammer if you have a valid claim.
If people tell you they dont like to talk, and said things like my little sister is going to play and she doesnt know how to type but knows how to kill a mob, DO NOT PARTY WITH THAT PERSON, most probably is cheating also if a GM comes and that little sister is playing, you my friend will get in deep sh... so avoid the risk.
Only party with people who behave as human beings, some may cheating but if all comes to probablity its better the odds of partying with somebody who acts like human that to party a **** robot who has a red flag saying "BAN ME PLEASE"...
Can we at least all agree there is a difference between one legit being in a party full of bots (Whole party will be banned)
and
One bot being in a party of legits? (The bot alone may be banned when tested.)
Thats how I understand it, since it makes perfect sense. But probably some didnt...
It makes perfect sense, if one legit is in a party of bots, common up, he knew what was comming and he still ignored it.
If they are tested and 90% of them fail the test, it means the legit may not botting at the time but does not care if people are cheating and he/she benefits from it, so she/her should get the same fate.
While one bot in a party of legits is a different story, in that case like the GM says, the bot alone should be banned.
Can we at least all agree there is a difference between one legit being in a party full of bots (Whole party will be banned)
and
One bot being in a party of legits? (The bot alone may be banned when tested.)
Of course there is a difference. But where is the limit? 8 bots vs 1 player? 7 bots vs 2 players? 6 bots vs 3 players? When does the obvious botter party no longer warrant getting legits banned?
I think that's something you can't really define or blend. What happens if you are in a party with a few guys and 3 bot - without you noticing. Lets say the party has 5 players. So it's 2 legit vs 3 bots. Do the legits get banned then?
Of course you can't go into details here how exactly you are deciding in each case but you hopefully see the problem a few people here have with this whole thing...
If a person is really AFK there is no reason to ban that person, just because a GM show up, however if that person is away from the keyboard, and is killing/buffing/doing something, I wouldnt called that person lazy most like it a cheater.
If one "legit" goes afk and their party without his concent cheat bot all the way, he must be the dumbest person on earth or an unlucky guy that meet the wrong people at the wrong time and got banned because of it..
But the probabblity will tell you the odds of that happening are hardly possible, is more possible that "legit" support cheating even if he/she does not use third party software around the time his so called friends got caugth.
Also if you cant detect in your group if somebody is cheating, you either have problems with your eyes or something, because I can understand if in a party one person bots and is hard for you to detect it, but as more people do it, you can tell the difference from the ones not doing vs the ones doing it, I dont see why people complain about this at all, unless they have a hidden agenda or something or try to protect themselfs from something they are doing or did...
Also if you cant detect in your group if somebody is cheating, you either have problems with your eyes or something, because I can understand if in a party one person bots and is hard for you to detect it, but as more people do it, you can tell the difference from the ones not doing vs the ones doing it, I dont see why people complain about this at all, unless they have a hidden agenda or something or try to protect themselfs from something they are doing or did...
My hidden agenda is to treat every person the same. Either rid the game of all bots over night or don't even try to ban legit people who aren't botting themselves - no matter what circumstances. Honestly I don't even see mention of this in the EULA at all - nothing that would justify that - but then again an EULA is a joke anyways and the companies can do with their product what they want. So it's NCsofts choice. But people can have different opinions than you or NCsoft.
Sakon - did you read the post at all - it is in response to "what if I'm in a part of people botting, but I am not, will I get banned".
For the love of God people, please read the threads before responding.
It's a game Cabbie. Ashleigh, Syndella, avyuirr, etc. act dumb and throw out ridiculous hypotheticals in an attempt to dissect the issue to the nth degree to dissuade NCsoft from banning anyone. Others go cross-eyed trying to comprehend how anyone could be dim enough to not know when someone has been away from their keyboard for hours at a time. The only curious part of this entire thread is why they think NCsoft would ever change their stance on an issue that could be deciphered by a seven year old.
If NCsoft allowed people to benefit from automated parties it would represent an implicit allowance of power leveling and adena farming services. Real market currency could be handed over in exchange for time in trains with the player feeling and being completely immune just because they were at their keyboard.
Either rid the game of all bots over night or don't even try to ban legit people who aren't botting themselves - no matter what circumstances.
Awesome. All NCsoft has to be is perfect and you'll find their actions acceptable otherwise they should do nothing.
My hidden agenda is to treat every person the same. Either rid the game of all bots over night or don't even try to ban legit people who aren't botting themselves - no matter what circumstances. Honestly I don't even see mention of this in the EULA at all - nothing that would justify that - but then again an EULA is a joke anyways and the companies can do with their product what they want. So it's NCsofts choice. But people can have different opinions than you or NCsoft.
If seem that you get blind by your emotions,
All I see people saying they cant tell from a group of people botting, party with them and dont expect any consecuence whatsoever, that honestly I find hard to believe at this point in the game, even to ask such question means only one thing, it has nothing to do with treat every person the same, if the mayority proof to be legit I dont see a problem, but like I say when you group with people and 2+ people start botting is very easy to detect them since you can compare.
NCSoft should ban this so called "legits" if they support cheating in ANY SHAPE OR FORM, regardless if they use third party programs or not. Since by supporting they are not longer legits but cheaters as well. And thats how understand the statement from the GM, some may want to alter that and degrade that statement in any way or form for their own personal believes, but that has nothing to do with what a GM should do, since by all means thats up to NCSoft to decide in the end by following the policies that they have in place.
Awesome. All NCsoft has to be is perfect and you'll find their actions acceptable otherwise they should do nothing.
I think after years of waiting for them to do anything I can start demanding that. All they have to do is write a piece of software and flick the switch. They also have a lot of other possibilities being in control of the game servers. But they haven't done anything automated. Everything is still done manually by GMs as far as I see.
This won't fix the problem. Ever.
If they really wanted to fix it there would be ways to do it.
If seem that you get blind by your emotions,
All I see people saying they cant tell from a group of people botting, party with them and dont expect any consecuence whatsoever, that honestly I find hard to believe at this point in the game, even to ask such question means only one thing, it has nothing to do with treat every person the same, if the mayority proof to be legit I dont see a problem, but like I say when you group with people and 2+ people start botting is very easy to detect them since you can compare.
NCSoft should ban this so called "legits" if they support cheating in ANY SHAPE OR FORM, regardless if they use third party programs or not. Since by supporting they are not longer legits but cheaters as well. And thats how understand the statement from the GM, some may want to alter that and degrade that statement in any way or form for their own personal believes, but that has nothing to do with what a GM should do, since by all means thats up to NCSoft to decide in the end by following the policies that they have in place.
If a legit is unknowingly supporting cheating he shouldn't be banned like a cheater. That's just not right. I'm not saying that single person in an obvious power leveling group shouldn't be banned.
But let's be honest here. If you get into a group at 75+ these days there are people botting in there. Every single time. Do people notice? Some do. Others don't. If all the people who never botted themselves would get banned for being in a group with bots I bet you 80% of the legit population would be gone. That's why I think it is wrong.
I think after years of waiting for them to do anything I can start demanding that. All they have to do is write a piece of software and flick the switch. They also have a lot of other possibilities being in control of the game servers. But they haven't done anything automated. Everything is still done manually by GMs as far as I see.
This won't fix the problem. Ever.
If they really wanted to fix it there would be ways to do it.
If a legit is unknowingly supporting cheating he shouldn't be banned like a cheater. That's just not right. I'm not saying that single person in an obvious power leveling group shouldn't be banned.
But let's be honest here. If you get into a group at 75+ these days there are people botting in there. Every single time. Do people notice? Some do. Others don't. If all the people who never botted themselves would get banned for being in a group with bots I bet you 80% of the legit population would be gone. That's why I think it is wrong.
And it won't solve the bot problem anyway.
At higher levels the more easy to detect bots, I can honestly tell you that for a level 75+ to dont have a clue if his party bot or not, means that he either doesnt know how the game works, never level up his/her own toon and is not aware of the term "botting" at all, or the most logical answer he is cheating too or just bs to save his/her ***.
No I cant believed there is people s.. enough to dont make a difference from somebody botting or somebody not, I refuse to believe stupidity can reach so high level, and now that I think about if they were to exist, please ban them, it will make us a favor to all of us...
If your partying with bots, your putting your account at risk. Its that simple, you are benefiting from the gains of a cheater and as such we consider you a cheater. We will not hesitate to remove you from the game.
I need animal skin and this guy in front of me has 22,341 should I buy these or am I recieving the benefit of botting?
I also need some AA and this guy is selling them the cheapest, he has 110 million...think he cheats?
Why nitpick about one aspect of getting a benefit from other players using methods to cheat when you completely ignore other aspects of it.
People on the forums say you can spot a bot/cheater from 1000 feet away, these people clearly cheat as well and the L2 community purchase items that these bots/cheaters farm 24/7 all the time. Buying these items to make the normal Tallum Blade instead of buying a common one is technically "receiving the benefit" of illegal third party programs.
OK, shut all the servers down! According to some of the posters in this thread there is no hope for this fine game. They feel if you can’t stop all the benefits of botters you shouldn’t stop any botting. How completely ridiculous is this thought process?
I need animal skin and this guy in front of me has 22,341 should I buy these or am I recieving the benefit of botting?
I also need some AA and this guy is selling them the cheapest, he has 110 million...think he cheats?
Why nitpick about one aspect of getting a benefit from other players using methods to cheat when you completely ignore other aspects of it.
People on the forums say you can spot a bot/cheater from 1000 feet away, these people clearly cheat as well and the L2 community purchase items that these bots/cheaters farm 24/7 all the time. Buying these items to make the normal Tallum Blade instead of buying a common one is technically "receiving the benefit" of illegal third party programs.
The accusation that NCSoft is nitpicking one type of bot over another is preposterous. The bots that are getting banned out in the fields are the ones supplying the shops in town. This is the very same issue we have combating illegal drugs. Anyone involved in the manufacturing, processing, distribution and consumption is part of the problem.
It goes the same with our “situation” within this game. Everyone involved in the development, testing, distribution and use of these third party applications are part of our problem.
Please continue to ban the accounts of those that use illicit means while playing Lineage 2! Nothing more, nothing less needs to be said.
I need animal skin and this guy in front of me has 22,341 should I buy these or am I recieving the benefit of botting?
I also need some AA and this guy is selling them the cheapest, he has 110 million...think he cheats?
Why nitpick about one aspect of getting a benefit from other players using methods to cheat when you completely ignore other aspects of it.
People on the forums say you can spot a bot/cheater from 1000 feet away, these people clearly cheat as well and the L2 community purchase items that these bots/cheaters farm 24/7 all the time. Buying these items to make the normal Tallum Blade instead of buying a common one is technically "receiving the benefit" of illegal third party programs.
Did you actually read this before posting?
You are not of these so called mythological guys that appear once in a blue moon unable to detect if somebody is botting in front of you right?
Anyway everything in your post is plain wrong since you generalized about a problem and miss the whole point of whats been debate here.
OK, shut all the servers down! According to some of the posters in this thread there is no hope for this fine game. They feel if you can’t stop all the benefits of botters you shouldn’t stop any botting. How completely ridiculous is this thought process?
The accusation that NCSoft is nitpicking one type of bot over another is preposterous. The bots that are getting banned out in the fields are the ones supplying the shops in town. This is the very same issue we have combating illegal drugs. Anyone involved in the manufacturing, processing, distribution and consumption is part of the problem.
It goes the same with our “situation” within this game. Everyone involved in the development, testing, distribution and use of these third party applications are part of our problem.
Please continue to ban the accounts of those that use illicit means while playing Lineage 2! Nothing more, nothing less needs to be said.
THX
That's absolutely ******ed and it doesn't even solve the issue. Do you think the botters give a **** about those 9 lowbie accounts they use to farm the materials? The simple answer to that is no, it's why they transfer all the stuff they are after to another toon that doesn't use programs so they can sell them to us, make the adena turn around and make the RL $. Without banning the bots seller toons and destroying the materials and items (that haven't already sold I wouldn't want someone to spend their hard legit adena and then get them removed) you're not even doing anything to solve the bot issue and this is why bots are still around.
You all cry that Varka is full of bots you can't xp. You cry cause someone uses bots to gain xp. But then your all happy as punch when you hit S Grade and go buy that AM Mace from a bot trader, that used lowbie bots to farm all the mats and those very bots you cry about in Varka taking your precious xp spots to get the recs. Are you people really that hypocritical?
Ban botters...ban bot traders...destroy the mats/recs acquired by botters...if they can't make adena to sell for RL $ they will be gone.
That's absolutely ******ed and it doesn't even solve the issue. Do you think the botters give a **** about those 9 lowbie accounts they use to farm the materials? The simple answer to that is no, it's why they transfer all the stuff they are after to another toon that doesn't use programs so they can sell them to us, make the adena turn around and make the RL $. Without banning the bots seller toons and destroying the materials and items (that haven't already sold I wouldn't want someone to spend their hard legit adena and then get them removed) you're not even doing anything to solve the bot issue and this is why bots are still around.
I think you are not even reading within the content of what DrachaVonDrachen is posting, you assume, generalize things and then called retart an idea that he is not supporting...
You want this perfect world that it does not exist.
The GMs are doing their job, let them be. Read carefully, I repeat re-read everything they said until you are able to grasp into your brain the whole point of it, otherwise please do not post nosense, since it appears you are confuse about what we even talking here.
I think you are not even reading within the content of what DrachaVonDrachen is posting, you assume, generalize things and then called retart an idea that he is not supporting...
You want this perfect world that it does not exist.
The GMs are doing their job, let them be. Read carefully, I repeat re-read everything they said until you are able to grasp into your brain the whole point of it, otherwise please do not post nosense, since it appears you are confuse about what we even talking here.
Can you please stop posting offending stuff about every person that doesn't share your opinion? You did the same thing with me but now I'm sure you do it do everyone who thinks differently than you.
You all cry that Varka is full of bots you can't xp. You cry cause someone uses bots to gain xp. But then your all happy as punch when you hit S Grade and go buy that AM Mace from a bot trader, that used lowbie bots to farm all the mats and those very bots you cry about in Varka taking your precious xp spots to get the recs. Are you people really that hypocritical?
Ban botters...ban bot traders...destroy the mats/recs acquired by botters...if they can't make adena to sell for RL $ they will be gone.
Again you generalize about this. Who is crying about bots? We are discussing about why a person in a party full of bots should be banned, we are not discussing about bots at Varka about material or about S-Grade weapons, you getting off topic quite often as you didn't even bother to read anything and just post for the hell of it.
Again you generalize about this. Who is crying about bots? We are discussing about why a person in a party full of bots should be banned, we are not discussing about bots at Varka about material or about S-Grade weapons, you getting off topic quite often as you didn't even bother to read anything and just post for the hell of it.
Maybe you should read the thread yourself. I see posts about Ketra and Varka in it.
Can you please stop posting offending stuff about every person that doesn't share your opinion? You did the same thing with me but now I'm sure you do it do everyone who thinks different than you.
o.O sorry that I hurt your feelings, like I said you are too emotional...
Anyway where I offended this guy? I dont see it ;). The true hurts maybe thats the problem.
And nah it has nothing to do that somebody doesnt share my point of view lol, its a discussion Syndella, check the word in the dictionary please, if you cant support the heat dont play with fire, otherwise you may get burned....
Again you generalize about this. Who is crying about bots? We are discussing about why a person in a party full of bots should be banned, we are not discussing about bots at Varka about material or about S-Grade weapons, you getting off topic quite often as you didn't even bother to read anything and just post for the hell of it.
Are you serious? This post is about RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF BOTS. Whether you agree with me or not, buying the materials farmed by bots is RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF BOTTING. There's more then 1 way to gain the benefit of people that bot, not just sitting in the group sponging xp from them.
So far all 4 pages have been about 1 aspect of receiving benefits from them, I merely brought up another aspect of it. I'm surprised that no one else has even been able to make the connection between the guy selling 100,000 animal skins to the party of 9 farming 24/7.
But your right being able to make that S Grade item is an acceptable benefit.
And nah it has nothing to do that somebody doesnt share my point of view lol, its a discussion Syndella, check the word in the dictionary please, if you cant support the heat dont play with fire, otherwise you may get burned....
A discussion is not about you stating again and again that people with other opinions than your own can't read.
Are you serious? This post is about RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF BOTS. Whether you agree with me or not, buying the materials farmed by bots is RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF BOTTING. There's more then 1 way to gain the benefit of people that bot, not just sitting in the group sponging xp from them.
So far all 4 pages have been about 1 aspect of receiving benefits from them, I merely brought up another aspect of it. I'm surprised that no one else has even been able to make the connection between the guy selling 100,000 animal skins to the party of 9 farming 24/7.
But your right being able to make that S Grade item is an acceptable benefit.
I am not saying you are incorrect about the statement that buy from criminals is itself a criminal act. Still you do understand that generalize things like he has 20k adena for sell is does not equal to = he is a cheater.
Or things he has a number in his name he must be a cheater, those statements are wrong and incorrect.
There is a penalty for benefit from a party full of bots like I expect to be, and a penalty to benefit from items that were obtain illegally. They should remove it? Rightful yes, but dont expect such thing to happen before other actions such banning botting takes place.
The GM statement is related to a party and exp and thats the within the content of his statement, people have generalized about it and trying to make fit into everything that happens in lineage 2
A discussion is not about you stating again and again that people with other opinions than your own can't read.
Oh boy,
I validated ideas that are right even if the whole post is wrong. I stated my opinion which I strongly support with no regrets whatsoever, you have a different point of view which personally I consider wrong, but listen you dont have to agreed to it, if the answer fits to you then it applies to you, if you get emotional about its because it has some true, its a fact of life, you could call me names or curse my family, it will have no effect in me, but I dont expect for you to understand that.
We reach a conclusion in our debate, so let it be.
About this other guy let him debate his ideas, I dont think he needs your support to stand for him/herself.
I am not saying you are incorrect about the statement that buy from criminals is itself a criminal act. Still you do understand that generalize things like he has 20k adena for sell is does not equal to = he is a cheater.
Or things he has a number in his name he must be a cheater, those statements are wrong and incorrect.
There is a penalty for benefit from a party full of bots like I expect to be, and a penalty to benefit from items that were obtain illegally. They should remove it? Rightful yes, but dont expect such thing to happen before other actions such banning botting takes place.
The GM statement is related to a party and exp and thats the within the content of his statement, people have generalized about it and trying to make fit into everything that happens in lineage 2
Yes his statement is about receiving the xp benefit from a party of 8 bots..and by all means he's as guilty as they are. I was merely in a cynical way asking why items from these people are allowed to remain in the game. There's 4 pages of posts already that X player should be banned so I proposed a different question.
if you get emotional about its because it has some true, its a fact of life, you could call me names or curse my family, it will have no effect in me, but I dont expect for you to understand that.
I didn't call you anything and won't call you anything. Why would you think I'm getting emotional? I simply told you that offending everyone who has a different opinion than you isn't the way to have a discussion.
Lol, you don't ask everyone if they are doing something wrong, you only ask if they give you reason to suspect that they are.
I don't always XP with people from my clan and if a group can use me then I'll join. I won't know if any are on bot until we start XP so I wouldn't expect to be banned for it. However, knowingly joining a bot train and playing live is just the same as botting yourself. The problem is that the GMs don't know which of these situations it is - the only person that knows is you - they have to make a blanket decision for all one way or the other. Its impossible to deal with each case individually.
fgfgghgf 'Please Mr SPAM! I didn't know my friend ghghghhj was botting!'
Some of you are stupid or just pretending? I think most of them time banhammer is for a good reason and we shouldn't analyse every posible situation and expect answer to it..... Ofc there're errors, every company does them but those errors are acceptable.
Some of you are stupid or just pretending? I think most of them time banhammer is for a good reason and we shouldn't analyse every posible situation and expect answer to it..... Ofc there're errors, every company does them but those errors are acceptable.
Are you still gonna say that when you are the one banned due to error?
Are you still gonna say that when you are the one banned due to error?
I wouldn't say that. Simply because I woulnd't be there.
i like 4 years of grinding getting banned because of error, I wouldnt be mad.
Ofc I would be mad but I understand the fact that there're posibility to get banned by random bannings. This would be the reason to finish my l2 carrier.
OK, shut all the servers down! According to some of the posters in this thread there is no hope for this fine game. They feel if you can’t stop all the benefits of botters you shouldn’t stop any botting. How completely ridiculous is this thought process?
The accusation that NCSoft is nitpicking one type of bot over another is preposterous. The bots that are getting banned out in the fields are the ones supplying the shops in town. This is the very same issue we have combating illegal drugs. Anyone involved in the manufacturing, processing, distribution and consumption is part of the problem.
It goes the same with our “situation” within this game. Everyone involved in the development, testing, distribution and use of these third party applications are part of our problem.
Please continue to ban the accounts of those that use illicit means while playing Lineage 2! Nothing more, nothing less needs to be said.
THX
Im glad you used that RL reference about drugs. They are doing the exact same thing law enforcement does. Go after the small fish instead of the big fish. Arrest 100s of street dealers instead of going after the main source. Ban a couple hundred bots, just to have them come back days later. It's amazing how much real life situations you can relate to L2 =)
Why is there even 3 pages worth of nthing in this thread? The question was answered on like the 3rd or 4th post. No need for discussion wether it's right or wrong we know NcWest view and thats all that matters.
Everyone complaining about bots, but according to this thread only if it doesn't involve them. Can't have it both ways.
Are you serious? This post is about RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF BOTS. Whether you agree with me or not, buying the materials farmed by bots is RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF BOTTING.
Lol. "Whether you agree with me or not, the Earth is donut-shaped".
You don't receive any benefits buying mats on the market if you do it on regular ingame market terms (i.e. with the prices inflated by those bots and cheaters ebaying botted adena).
If, due to some RL connections, you buy these mats cheaper than the others on the market would, or if you receive portions of your paid adena back through, say, RMT, then yes, you benefit from botting.
I wouldn't say that. Simply because I woulnd't be there.
Ofc I would be mad but I understand the fact that there're posibility to get banned by random bannings. This would be the reason to finish my l2 carrier.
Random Bannings???
Would it not be closer to "Selected Bannings" We all know numerous bots that we report day in and day out....nothing happens to them....other times they are gone from the area but can still be PMed so they were not banned but are gone....and in other cases i see some QQ on Blah but the people complaining they are banned i have never heard of.