For those of you who remember my thread about the 73 Palaika when it was release, I was very displeased. I was trying to do it on my OL at level 74 and died like 3 times.
Well, I tried it again today, and it's quite LOL.
TBH, the MP VR that WC and OL have is very much NOT balanced. It's impossible to run out of mana.
I pretty much went through the entire thing without having mana problems. I wasn't < full mana until Halfway through the final boss fight.
I didn't even use Blessed Spiritshots for Heart of Pa'agrio, and I used Grocery Store Healing Potions. VR + Mana VR pretty much owned the entire instance.
On the last boss I would melee to regen MP, and then run out and spam Steal Essence until I was like 10% MP. Run in, Seal of Silence, Melee to Regen, Rince Repeat.
OL went from 25% in 74 to 53%...
The MP VR is not balanced, it needs to be changed to something similar to Prophet MP trigger.
It's not like my Orc is level 40 and I'm just talking out of my behind. It's seriously overkill.
Every chronicle the orc buffers get something, OL's got a little something this time too... Everytime they give a WC another buff it just makes someone else more obsolite...
Yup, it's like I wrote somewhere else already, this thing is seriously overpowered. I have a WC sub and am happy because I can solo insanely easy with it, but I still would like to see this nerfed. WC skills cost a lot of mp for game balance reasons, but with this mana VR in game WC never ever is at anything less than full mp. It should be similar to PP mana steal - chance skill, and when it triggers, restore a relatively small amount of mp.
I really can't believe an OL or WC complains about having something cool... That's just... umm... don't wanna use any bad words ^^ But you get the point... I'm a Soulhound and I'm so happy with my new features and I will never say sometihng like "I want my skill reuse to be slow again" just like a WC should NEVER say "I want to run out of MP all the time again"... Think for a second please and enjoy it ^^
I really can't believe an OL or WC complains about having something cool... That's just... umm... don't wanna use any bad words ^^ But you get the point... I'm a Soulhound and I'm so happy with my new features and I will never say sometihng like "I want my skill reuse to be slow again" just like a WC should NEVER say "I want to run out of MP all the time again"... Think for a second please and enjoy it ^^
Egoistic people wont say that. no.
I might be the minority, but I can see when something in my own class is broken.
Well, I think there is a difference between a nice new skill and something which is so obviously unbalanced. If NCSoft would put a new skill into the game which allowed my Archmage to continously deal 50k damage to fully buffed enemies in S80 every second from 2000 range, I would also of course enjoy it quite a bit, but at the same time I would agree with everybody who would scream here on the board "omg nerf that crap!". Of course this orc mystic mp vr is not as overpowered as that nuker example, but still it is breaking the game balance. Orc skills cost a lot of mp for a reason - so that the orc mystic CANNOT spam them continously, or let all the toggles run continously and STILL regen mp back to full within a few mobs. There are rechargers in game for a reason. The first time I buffed my WC, was out of mp and back to full after soloing 5 mobs I knew this needs a serious nerf.
+1 Trensharo, well said
this "skill" is really bit too much...with the cancel boosts, wc will be easily able to rebuff again and again and again and never stop...pp rebuffs 3 ppl and is oom, i am happy for block fix and new pof, but i think pp will be even less awnted now, when ol can buff everything and together with wc have unlmited mp
I really can't believe an OL or WC complains about having something cool... That's just... umm... don't wanna use any bad words ^^ But you get the point... I'm a Soulhound and I'm so happy with my new features and I will never say sometihng like "I want my skill reuse to be slow again" just like a WC should NEVER say "I want to run out of MP all the time again"... Think for a second please and enjoy it ^^
It's cause some people care about a balanced game.
Obviously (read your posts on forum) you're the type of person that cries when another class is OP but keeps shut when you class is OP. There are some OP aspects to the Kamael classes, but you don't hear any Kamael talking about it. Read my Necro thread to hear them QQ about C4 when you write a readable, comprehensive post describing class issues, however.
Read through this forum and you'll see I'm one of the first people to step up and say when something (even something my class has) is imba and needs to be nerfed. I was one of the first people to suggest [re]implementing spell failures and partial resists. I was one of the people to suggest implementing an attribute resist system to mitigate mage damage (Revamping the Resist Buffs, etc.).
My track record is pretty solid as someone who has always advocated for a more balanced game even when it was at the detriment of my class, cause NCSoft wants to make all end-game dark resist and put dark resist on everything now... QQ More, I guess, huh?
I'm the type of person that raises an eyebrow when anything is OP, cause I prefer to play in a balanced game environment even if it is a detriment to my class.
I'm not crying, I'm stating facts.
This game mechanic needs to be either removed or significantly lowered in capability. It is too powerful (and like Necros, what do you think will happen when people start crying in droves... oh wait, they all have boxed buffers and NCSoft <3 Orcs anyways...).
Everybody and their momma is playing a WC in Korea nowdays ^ ^.
If they nerfed it, it will not be because of korea players, but more like it because of us... and if that were to happen they will QQ about it, so it will only be nerfed here :S.
The way I see it, the reward to level up a hard class paid off at a higher level, so you can level up easy, so thats how I see this new update for WC/OL, which is good.
The way I see it, the reward to level up a hard class paid off at a higher level, so you can level up easy, so thats how I see this new update for WC/OL, which is good.
PP is not easier to lvl than a WC/OL seriously.... lol. They get the same % exp per mob with the same mob at the same lvl with same vitality :p
The way I see it, the reward to level up a hard class paid off at a higher level, so you can level up easy, so thats how I see this new update for WC/OL, which is good.
Cause a WC with Soul Cry and VR is easier to level than a Prophet?
Post was reading well until I read this crap.
Isn't that what Overlords said about Blockade before it was balanced, though?
You do realize that this is not a skill or passive, it just exists. Even level 40 OL and WCs VR MP on hits... It has nothing to do with level.
I don't think it's really going to matter at this point. PP is pretty much finished in this game. No one with any game sense is going to bother leveling 1 to high levels. Just a few boxes that people use for soling and stuff. Even the PP resists aren't all that great compared to what you can get in elemental resist on s80 armor. So they won't be needed for that either. I doubt anyone will think that Counter-Critical is good enough to grind a PP to 83! Even PoF won't be all that usefull anymore with the changes they made to the ProFs.
When it comes to things like sieges, once you have even 1 high level OL and a bunch of WC's you have pretty much what you want/need. You won't need either the PP or the SE. PP's won't be looked for or desired in parties. SE's will become nothing more than recharge boxes. PoWind will be replaced by CoV/VoP, so that skill wil end up being used by people solo/duo using SE box. Hell unless they give SE's major heal like they did the EE's, the SE won't be long for this world either.
I don't think it's really going to matter at this point. PP is pretty much finished in this game. No one with any game sense is going to bother leveling 1 to high levels. Just a few boxes that people use for soling and stuff. Even the PP resists aren't all that great compared to what you can get in elemental resist on s80 armor. So they won't be needed for that either. I doubt anyone will think that Counter-Critical is good enough to grind a PP to 83! Even PoF won't be all that usefull anymore with the changes they made to the ProFs.
When it comes to things like sieges, once you have even 1 high level OL and a bunch of WC's you have pretty much what you want/need. You won't need either the PP or the SE. PP's won't be looked for or desired in parties. SE's will become nothing more than recharge boxes. PoWind will be replaced by CoV/VoP, so that skill wil end up being used by people solo/duo using SE box. Hell unless they give SE's major heal like they did the EE's, the SE won't be long for this world either.
Thats right SE and PP are almost dead, the best for them is to sub to a WC and pray for the sub -> main fuction.
EE still is the best recharger, so its still useful for something :S.
have you not seen their scar of shilen debuff!? they are now great for melee parties again, as well as damage assist in pvp.
also, for the op, you need a pretty good dd weapon for wc/ol to regen mana effectively. this will not be your mage weapon. so, as it is kind of an overkill skill, you still need to invest in a high damage weapon to get the utmost.
have you not seen their scar of shilen debuff!? they are now great for melee parties again, as well as damage assist in pvp.
also, for the op, you need a pretty good dd weapon for wc/ol to regen mana effectively. this will not be your mage weapon. so, as it is kind of an overkill skill, you still need to invest in a high damage weapon to get the utmost.
That buff won't save the SE. You can get the same debuff only better just by putting a Phantom Summoner in your party. You will get a lot more DD from the PS than you will the SE.
As for high damage wep for WC/OL, all they need is a decent dagger and they are fine.
That buff won't save the SE. You can get the same debuff only better just by putting a Phantom Summoner in your party. You will get a lot more DD from the PS than you will the SE.
Uhm, no.
SE has definitely made a comeback, they are needed in every melee group, raid and Seed group, Stigma of Shilien is a HUGE boost.
Uhm, no.
SE has definitely made a comeback, they are needed in every melee group, raid and Seed group, Stigma of Shilien is a HUGE boost.
Stigma of Shillen only works efficiently vs mobs with high hp, they will not need a real player, just a box would do the job... SE work has been reduced from time to time to this: debuff mob with that only skill, and buff mages and warriors before they start fighting, not healing, otherwise mp will be consumed so fast, that will make the group die easy, they are not healers more like it buffers, and if they are healers..., then they are crappy healers then.
So SE job is to buff group, debuff mob and sit down, I rather have a PP or EE with a nice heal boost than the sucky VR wich overall can get you kill since the thing is based in probability and not always land when you need the hp boost.
So for a raid group you will need a real Healer and a SE as option if need, so many classes can benefit a party so much vs a SE, than the need of a SE is almost 0.
And trust I love the SE class, it just that NCSoft have nerfed the class so much that cant be fix by now.
A bunch of cluelessness, and FUD in its truest form.
SE's are fine, and anyone who things Hex = Stigma don't have a clue. Stigma gives DDs a dramatic increase in damage. When you are getting healing from VR, that can make a huge difference.
Cursed Man was hitting a raid boss (Gordon) for 330'ish and it went up to ~550 when Stigma landed... Without Beast Soulshots.
Greater Heals
Vampiric Rage
Bless the Blood
Stigma
Wind Shackle
Root
Improved Prophecy of Water
Debuff Resistance
Block Shield
A Rez (~26%)
Most DD Buffs
Mage Buffs (Emp, WM)
Stigma of Shillen only works efficiently vs mobs with high hp, they will not need a real player, just a box would do the job... SE work has been reduced from time to time to this: debuff mob with that only skill, and buff mages and warriors before they start fighting, not healing, otherwise mp will be consumed so fast, that will make the group die easy, they are not healers more like it buffers, and if they are healers..., then they are crappy healers then.
So SE job is to buff group, debuff mob and sit down, I rather have a PP or EE with a nice heal boost than the sucky VR wich overall can get you kill since the thing is based in probability and not always land when you need the hp boost.
So for a raid group you will need a real Healer and a SE as option if need, so many classes can benefit a party so much vs a SE, than the need of a SE is almost 0.
And trust I love the SE class, it just that NCSoft have nerfed the class so much that cant be fix by now.
You're so clueless...
Every HB group looks like this now:
PP or WC
SE
EE
BD
SWS
Bishop
3 melee dd (dagger, titan, tyrant, glad, doombringer, pheonix knight or shillien knight with party buff)
And every dagger/melee pvp group will have an SE in it.
Thanks to SE Frintezza can be killed with 2 melee groups in less then 10 min, Baium can be done with 1 group, every regular raid can be down with 3 people - Titan, SE, BD.
At lower lvls an SE is definitely wanted in a melee group, and at higher lvls they are a must for good xp.
I wouldn't be surprised if Stigma gets nerfed soon, because it's ridiculously overpowered.
I can't understand... first update with improves for Overlord since years. Now everybody complaining... :(
Why everybody want nerv again?
Look at daggers... they getting better every update. Now they have dual dagger, hide etc..
No one complains about this. Strange.
Let Overlord like it is atm! Now its nice to play it! :)
+1 overlord is nice to play :) leave them us it is.
i dont have overlord but for so many years they were left behind so let them be happy.
Strange Molle. I have been in a large number of HB parties and not one of them had an SE in it. Only time I saw an SE was one that OOP being used to recharge the bishop. WC had all the buffs, along with CoV, they needed plus the EE buffs. With Mana VR now the WC will be even better there. I have a 69 SE that I like to play live every chance I get. Well at the rate of parties I can get on him, I'm beginning to doubt he'll ever see 75+...maybe in 2-3 years. Oh! and he's only 69 cause I keep him in party with me on second comp when I can get away with it. which isn't alot seeing as how my main is almost 79....
took my WC out today and nope. not even funny
thing was gaining 300 mp+ per hit on mobs, fair enough it was on blue mobs but seriously even if it was a 10th as powerful as it is i'd still call it massively overpowered
took my WC out today and nope. not even funny
thing was gaining 300 mp+ per hit on mobs, fair enough it was on blue mobs but seriously even if it was a 10th as powerful as it is i'd still call it massively overpowered
What kind of weapon you using? some ++++OE weapon with crit SA?
I have a lvl 67 OL and I am getting around 5-10% of the damage I dealt, something decent but not overpower.
Strange Molle. I have been in a large number of HB parties and not one of them had an SE in it. Only time I saw an SE was one that OOP being used to recharge the bishop. WC had all the buffs, along with CoV, they needed plus the EE buffs. With Mana VR now the WC will be even better there. I have a 69 SE that I like to play live every chance I get. Well at the rate of parties I can get on him, I'm beginning to doubt he'll ever see 75+...maybe in 2-3 years. Oh! and he's only 69 cause I keep him in party with me on second comp when I can get away with it. which isn't alot seeing as how my main is almost 79....
Then you are missing out on 40% extra dmg, for optimal xp you want an SE.
Then you are missing out on 40% extra dmg, for optimal xp you want an SE.
For mobs with lower hp, it does not matter, so not its not useful in regular melee hunts. They die so fast that the dmg bonus is not even considerable, besides spamming that spell in regular mobs is not efficient, it drains considerable mana overall, so the SE will be most of the time in a corner waiting for mana to go up, is only good vs mobs with high hp, otherwise it sucks.
Also you dont need the SE to be in party to cast that spell, thats why a box would replace a real SE player, one because you dont need it in party to leach exp, second its more efficient, debuffing the mob, while the SE doesnt take any exp at all... A real healer is always welcome to any party, because requieres constant attention in any party, but SE class is not longer a healer class, they are more like buffers than anything else, really easy to box.
I agreed that the spell is good, however not enough to save the SE class.
For mobs with lower hp, it does not matter, so not its not useful in regular melee hunts. They die so fast that the dmg bonus is not even considerable, besides spamming that spell in regular mobs is not efficient, it drains considerable mana overall, so the SE will be most of the time in a corner waiting for mana to go up, is only good vs mobs with high hp, otherwise it sucks.
Also you dont need the SE to be in party to cast that spell, thats why a box would replace a real SE player, one because you dont need it in party to leach exp, second its more efficient, debuffing the mob, while the SE doesnt take any exp at all... A real healer is always welcome to any party, because requieres constant attention in any party, but SE class is not longer a healer class, they are more like buffers than anything else, really easy to box.
I agreed that the spell is good, however not enough to save the SE class.
Melees don't hunt on low hp/field mobs, they do dungeons with 4/5/6x hp mobs, you can do the very high pdef rooms in Catacombs for good xp.
Maybe you don't play end game, but the SE is saved, they are needed in high lvl pve/pvp/raid groups.
P.S. I had just buffed, so I ran into the field about 1-2 minutes earlier with like 40% MP. Even using skills it took a non-factor amount of time to regen that back up. This must totally rock for OLs in pole parties. Seal Seal Seal - Equip Common B/A Grade Pole - Regen...
Im happy what NC done now with WC and OL. Before Gracia WC/OL always run with OoM and when they was in party without rechargers) almost half time they have to sit and geting mana back. When you have to heal to... you never get new mana for rebuff.
Now WC/OL are PLAYABLE!! Why they almost never use Soulcry/bou it on low lvl?? Becouse they never get mana for next rebuff! When OL use SoulGuard? ONLY in PvP becouse you run of mana fast!!
Exping on spot withoun mana herbs was almost imposible!! Now WC/OL are NOT OVERPOWERED but PLAYABLE!! If you wanna QQ look on Daggers who get new POWER not for WC/OL.
For me WC/OL before Final was mostly for masochist. Now normal ppl can play it to.
No Mage class should be able to maintain these types of toggles indefinitely.
Rechargers recharge. If people didn't have MP problems there would be no use for the skill Recharge.
OL and WC were FAR from unplayable before the update. Do you even know what an unplayable class looks like? It's called "Prophet".
OL's main crutch was the fact that they could not buff group members not in the same clan as themselves, and the fact that they didn't get many buffs that were highly wanted. They got good buffs this update (in the combos) and they can buff group members. There was nothing wrong with the WC class before the update.
No mage class should ever be able to stay full mana when they are performing their roles, and no mage class should be able to run with those kind of toggles on 100% of the time without fear of MP problems [whilst enjoying a factorable DPS and Suriveability increase].
Something is [obviously] not right with that. Why people try to pawn it off as balanced boggles my mind.
OL/WC aren't overpowered. The MP VR game mechanic that NCSoft implemented in Gracia Final, however, is.
Burning Chop MP Cost needs to be raised, also, when they nerf this.
First MP VR works only on moobs so in PvP you loose mana as same fast as before.
Second: If you raise MP for Chop it will became useless skill for everything else that PvE. You hit it couples time and you out of mana.
Third: Go somewhere wheres moobs are not blue for you and they dont drop herbs. Then tell us if you mana still raising.
Hunting on blue moobs is not exping... its farming. And around Goddard there ARE Herbs.
First MP VR works only on moobs so in PvP you loose mana as same fast as before.
Balance is PvP and PvE. If something is imba in PvE, guess what, it's IMBA. It doesn't have to be an uber PvP 1 shot skill to be imbalanced and overpowered.
Second: If you raise MP for Chop it will became useless skill for everything else that PvE. You hit it couples time and you out of mana.
You are ******ed. Burning Chop costs 19 MP. Hammer Crush is 70. How is raising the MP cost for Burning Chop to, say, 39 MP going to change much? It should not be spammable to the point where the two melee hits before each use recoups all of the MP used by the skill. They mind as well just make every 3rd hit do burning chop and make it a passive. That's how ******ed the MP cost is.
Third: Go somewhere wheres moobs are not blue for you and they dont drop herbs. Then tell us if you mana still raising.
Hunting on blue moobs is not exping... its farming. And around Goddard there ARE Herbs.
Sure.
Here's Hot Springs. 1.4k P.Def permanently in Majestic Robes. So probably close to 2k in Heavy Armor. Keep in mind that weapon is pretty much crap... It's just a common 2h Blunt. Can do better with a dagger, sword, or 2h sword...
I always hate to rain on people's parades, but you simply have no idea what you're talking about here...
I know more than a couple people who would kill for that kind of surviveability and uptime (all at the same time, there is usually a trade-off).
Again, this is not balanced.
Please respond. Pwn yourself more. What's next, go solo @ FoG?
EDIT: Actually if you look at the XP bar in my screens, I killed more than 5 MOBs. I just took 5 Screenshots. It goes from 0.14 to 0.20, which is about 3-4 MOB kills there. Quite impressive, IMO. This time I used more skills, and I am obviously not picking up pots... I even used Seal of Winter on a few MOBs. With Majestic Heavy, I prolly wouldn't lose much HP, Lol. You don't even need skills, TBH, you can just mow them down. I got stunned a fewof times, cause I didn't feel like logging in the EE for Resist Shock...
I'll test in Heavy and/or Light Armor when I can get a hold of a set to use for a few minutes.
Please respond. Pwn yourself more. What's next, go solo @ FoG?
yup :P
w/o that nice mpvr wc wasnt more than a cute "always sitting" buffbish...
1 buffround cost ur whole mp, now u can get some back by hitting mobs, seems ok.
and its more like ~50mp per hit, with normal weapon (non ++++) and works only on multi hp mobs good.
w/o that nice mpvr wc wasnt more than a cute "always sitting" buffbish...
1 buffround cost ur whole mp, now u can get some back by hitting mobs, seems ok.
and its more like ~50mp per hit, with normal weapon (non ++++) and works only on multi hp mobs good.
you can hit NPC's and still regen MP. I can restore 3k mp by hitting a NPC for 2-3 minutes.
I have tried on 1x hp mobs and multi hp mobs both gives back mp.
to put it this way. I can do freezing flame and 2-3 steal essence on each mob and have my toggle on and still my MP will be full by the time the mob is dead.
I'm 69 on my WC and have over 1100 patk, around 1k pdef and 1k mdef self buffed
Im happy what NC done now with WC and OL. Before Gracia WC/OL always run with OoM and when they was in party without rechargers) almost half time they have to sit and geting mana back. When you have to heal to... you never get new mana for rebuff.
Now WC/OL are PLAYABLE!! Why they almost never use Soulcry/bou it on low lvl?? Becouse they never get mana for next rebuff! When OL use SoulGuard? ONLY in PvP becouse you run of mana fast!!
Exping on spot withoun mana herbs was almost imposible!! Now WC/OL are NOT OVERPOWERED but PLAYABLE!! If you wanna QQ look on Daggers who get new POWER not for WC/OL.
For me WC/OL before Final was mostly for masochist. Now normal ppl can play it to.
+1...
*domi 79... enjoying the fact of being able to go hunt without having to beg to people*
We are not "as fast" as a DD to kill, even with the mp vr. Comon, this is just a nice add for our xp. Just enjoy it. It's a lil bonus, nothing hardcore.
I even put back soulcry in my hotbar^^
So you think it's balanced for a class to be able to run Soul Cry + Soul Guard indefinitely + Spam Skills and use Seals without breaking a Sweat? You think a soloing support class should have infinite MP?
Do you know how dumb that sounds, to even hint that it's balanced?
Doesn't matter what class you are.
WC and OL were never sitting buff *******. Mana Gain'd recharges, anyone?
It's nobody's fault you play you main like a boxed buffer...
So you think it's balanced for a class to be able to run Soul Cry + Soul Guard indefinitely + Spam Skills and use Seals without breaking a Sweat? You think a soloing support class should have infinite MP?
it's no more balanced than the nukers and archers being able to 1-4 shoot you from 900+ range.
So you think it's balanced for a class to be able to run Soul Cry + Soul Guard indefinitely + Spam Skills and use Seals without breaking a Sweat? You think a soloing support class should have infinite MP?
Do you know how dumb that sounds, to even hint that it's balanced?
Doesn't matter what class you are.
WC and OL were never sitting buff *******. Mana Gain'd recharges, anyone?
It's nobody's fault you play you main like a boxed buffer...
I tested the new vr mana with a OL lvl 67 (robe +++elysyan) and no I didnt have infinite mp, as matter of fact I have to sit down often, not like before, but still have to do it. So I dont see how you getting this infinite mana unless the level difference beetwen my OL and yours is the key.
Thanks for the heads up tren i love this and if ya want balanced then we need to talk about limiting the enchants on gear also to balance out the game.
Human's aren't alike and since all these races are different then of course it's not gonna be a balanced game as far as the races go becuase just like us as humans we aren't balanced at all so why make the game boring with all the races balanced?
Unbalanced means more challenging and has a much better fun factor than a lame boring balanced game for me at least. Great job actually improving my class NCSOFT thumbs up ,this and the pet buffs were best 2 so far.
I tested the new vr mana with a OL lvl 67 (robe +++elysyan) and no I didnt have infinite mp, as matter of fact I have to sit down often, not like before, but still have to do it. So I dont see how you getting this infinite mana unless the level difference beetwen my OL and yours is the key.
You're either highly overstating it, or lying. I will make a fraps of me XPing at Hot Springs tomorrow in Majestic Robes with my common weapon. I'll post it Monday or Tuesday evening in this thread.
Tired of this useless bull****.
Thanks for the heads up tren i love this and if ya want balanced then we need to talk about limiting the enchants on gear also to balance out the game.
Human's aren't alike and since all these races are different then of course it's not gonna be a balanced game as far as the races go becuase just like us as humans we aren't balanced at all so why make the game boring with all the races balanced?
Unbalanced means more challenging and has a much better fun factor than a lame boring balanced game for me at least. Great job actually improving my class NCSOFT thumbs up ,this and the pet buffs were best 2 so far.
Just stop.
I've already covered this. It's a non-factor talking point.
Im happy what NC done now with WC and OL. Before Gracia WC/OL always run with OoM and when they was in party without rechargers) almost half time they have to sit and geting mana back. When you have to heal to... you never get new mana for rebuff.
Now WC/OL are PLAYABLE!! Why they almost never use Soulcry/bou it on low lvl?? Becouse they never get mana for next rebuff! When OL use SoulGuard? ONLY in PvP becouse you run of mana fast!!
Exping on spot withoun mana herbs was almost imposible!! Now WC/OL are NOT OVERPOWERED but PLAYABLE!! If you wanna QQ look on Daggers who get new POWER not for WC/OL.
For me WC/OL before Final was mostly for masochist. Now normal ppl can play it to.
w/o that nice mpvr wc wasnt more than a cute "always sitting" buffbish...
1 buffround cost ur whole mp, now u can get some back by hitting mobs, seems ok.
and its more like ~50mp per hit, with normal weapon (non ++++) and works only on multi hp mobs good.
You're testing my patience.
You dont' need to use skills on 1x HP Mobs, and even if you do, Burning Chop is only 19 MP cost and almost spammable.
On 1x HP Mobs it's even better because you don't have to do anything BUT melee. You MP Regen on them will far outpace the MP Drain of Soul Cry + Soul Guard together (on OL).
I've already tested on 1x HP Mobs. It's a joke. They hit me for like 150 damage and I only needed to pick up an HP herb after every 20th MOB death or so, if even that (depending on crits, etc.) - thanks to VR4.
There was no such thing as running out of MP buffing a party on a WC, especially since the introduction of combination buffs.
Also, have you ever grouping with Rechargers.
Ever tried a Mana Up or Conversion weapon (Crystal Staff/Homu from Weapon Shop)?
Wear Priest Robes (Majestic, BW) instead of DC/Tallum/lolNM? A combination of those?
They exist for a reason.
Do you seriously use 4k+ MP to buff a group? My OL has about 5k Mana with Majestic Robes and Mana Up Staff. Combo buffs are only buffed every other buffround so that's ~800 MP that doesn't need to be used the the next buff round.
They could have easily alleviated these issues by giving all Mystic classes the same level of Higher Mana Gain as Summoners. That way you get an extra 20-30 MP per recharge from EE/SE. You can also sub nuker and get the passive, which increases it more (and factorably on classes without passives). It's you choice.
Putting imba game mechanics into the game was not the answer, and there weren't too many people crying about mana issues (other than prophets mostly) until... now?
I'm pretty sure everyone knows it's overpowered. Whether it gets nerfed next update is the real question. It all really depends on the Koreans. What are they saying? Anyone over there QQ'ing about it? We'll see.
TBH, I don't really mind it so much. An over-powered Overlord is a little more palatable than an over-powered dagger or mage. I'd let them keep all this if they just dropped the time of the buffs to balance the increased mana potential.
Still, why break a system that used to work? Would reduced buff time (like 10 minutes) be a better alternative to what came before? I dunno'... I like the change for Orc mages but it's certainly a bit much. There needs to be a system such as this to allow OL's/WC's enjoy their skills but it also needs to be balanced.
Perhaps it would be more constructive to find potential design compromises than bicker for another 4 pages. It's here to stay for now anyways...
they could have just lowered the mp usage of all skills instead of adding the mpvr.
however, like some people have said, its mostly a pve skill and one we should all enjoy till us ol's get put back in the shadows
o come on is far from being over powered. Is a pve add that helps WC/OL to be able to solo if they want with out downtime, previous they were limited in doing that now they got that choice. In pvp dosnt make a real difference and in group pve is not so necessary but does make a WC/OL the preferred choice (which was already the case)
So to all who thing is op they you are just some nuts, if you dont like it dont play OL/WC and play dwarf so you have the gimp signed stamped on your empty heads.
There is something most of the mp vr detractors forget... : L2 is becoming "easier".
Easy to xp, easy to lvl up, easy to get buffs, easy with some quests.
Look at the newbies buffs till A grade. Look a the buffer pets. Look at the herbs areas, the vitality system, the combos, the common stuff, the weapon shop, the fact we don't need spellbooks anymore, you don't need to kill baylor to enter HB, Inquisitor, Vanguard stance, mp trigger .. etc etc...
That game isn't anymore a hard game for hard core gamers only !
It's becoming "casual friendly" ! :D and that is the GREAT change !
The mp vr is in the same move as the rest : something to make the game easier (for xp).
So "normal people" (without tools) can lvl faster and funnier than before, and enjoy the pvp side of the game without xp pressure.
I repeat it again : the mp vr isn't overpowered. it is just a pve bonus.
I hunt in light armor when i solo/duo, with soul cry up, and i'm not always full mp.
I hunt in robe when i aoe with a party, and i hit in train to earn back some mp, but i'm never full.
That save some mp for the recharger that can focus on the spoiler and healer. no big deal.
In pvp : no change. I'm still trying to get a Siguil for the mp regen bonus, and running around with my mp talismans. Proof that the mp vr does nothing in that case.
Warsmiths get some fantastic changes few chronicles ago.
Nukers.. well, i'm not an expert on that. But still, improvements are given for the class who got hard time for lvl up, such as healers, buffers and tanks.
I'm just sad for spoilers, because they really don't have anything new... T_T
now let's talk about how the game is supposed to be played or not...
we should not "have to box 3-4 buffers" for xp. (We = all of us)
This is a Massive multiplayer game, we should all party together without having a boxed DD or buffer !
Why there is such a few live buffers? because 1) almost everyone wanna pwned, so tonz DDs. and 2) because it was a paaaaaaain to lvl up a buffer !
Now, the point number 2 is solved. We can easily make duos or solo while waiting for a friend to arrive. So many people will, i hope, play live buffer !
More warcryers ! more overlords !
and with stigma of Shillien, more SEs too !! \o/
For DD mains (either melee or nuker) boxes supports, they still play their main. For a buffer to box DD, they are playing their alt.
I'm boxing my main to get exp and I'm getting worse at playing my main (both PP and WC) coz I don't play them 'mainly' enough >.< I don't like that I'm not getting enough play-time/practice on playing my main Q.Q
I play an active, melee oriented DC and I find tremendous fun in it - well, my job got a bit easier with this update, but Nina has an excellent point at the making duo suggestion :)
On the way to blue tag, I partied with a BD friend up to A-grade and then with 2-3 clannies in party, mostly as buffer and an extra hand in melee combat. I never had problems, we complemented each other nicely. WC is drawn to survive in one-on-one PVE combat, he's never the focus of the mob when in party anyway so he can crush-hit-crush all he wants.
Now I can easily solo, but I won't, pairing with a DD is the way to play for a DC, imho. No need for buff bots ;)
Funny thing is, I got my baby (lvl 45) OL out for a spin to see the boost he got and it was so amazing I might actually get him up to S-grade, too ;) Finally, OL is playable as solo or duo toon and really enjoyable :)
It's cause some people care about a balanced game.
Obviously (read your posts on forum) you're the type of person that cries when another class is OP but keeps shut when you class is OP. There are some OP aspects to the Kamael classes, but you don't hear any Kamael talking about it. Read my Necro thread to hear them QQ about C4 when you write a readable, comprehensive post describing class issues, however.
Read through this forum and you'll see I'm one of the first people to step up and say when something (even something my class has) is imba and needs to be nerfed. I was one of the first people to suggest [re]implementing spell failures and partial resists. I was one of the people to suggest implementing an attribute resist system to mitigate mage damage (Revamping the Resist Buffs, etc.).
My track record is pretty solid as someone who has always advocated for a more balanced game even when it was at the detriment of my class, cause NCSoft wants to make all end-game dark resist and put dark resist on everything now... QQ More, I guess, huh?
I'm the type of person that raises an eyebrow when anything is OP, cause I prefer to play in a balanced game environment even if it is a detriment to my class.
I'm not crying, I'm stating facts.
This game mechanic needs to be either removed or significantly lowered in capability. It is too powerful (and like Necros, what do you think will happen when people start crying in droves... oh wait, they all have boxed buffers and NCSoft <3 Orcs anyways...).
Whooopsiii... a weekend on the beach and I miss all this ^^
Listen... neither you, me or any1 else in this game can be 100% right all the time... I don't know you, and maybe you are a great player, but c'mon!!! you better than a lot of players know that you can't do a thing about skill changes... if giving opinions for you is QQ... then you sound lik you are QQ too about making "WC" OP because of their mana gain... even if they have all the mana in the world it's not a decisive factor to pvp and you know it...
On the contraty, I believe it's cool... coz I really hated when a WC in any party (big/small or duos) buff and remain sitted recovering mp for the next 20 minutes and leeching experience, I rather create another char to help. This things make the WC able to buff (coz they consume a lot of mp in their buffs) and force them to assist you hitting the mob and assit you in crowd controlling instead of only buffing every 20 minutes... I don't even have to tell the wc to hit, they do it by their own now coz of this change... and yes, I care about that coz Soulshots S are too expensive and if every1 attacks I get to save some adena and so everyone else in the party by increasing the damage and killing mob faster.
You gotta see the whole picture out of any situation and not only post whatever pops into your mind first... there's a reason why devs makes those changes and that's the way it works. No matter how many times some1 "QQ's" about an over or underpowered class, the "balance" you seek is not there... it is in the way the game is played. So if you let me give you an advice, focus your forum efforts to try to "balance" the game by finding a solution, or at least contributing in any way to fix the ONLY problem that makes this game unfair: CHEATERS...
@Trensharo: would you had complained if Soultaker had gotten something that allowed them to transfer 100% of the damage they took over to theyr servitor that is perma buffed with a celestial shield type buff so that they take no damage?
the fact that they gave it to wc and not pp means its overpowered, cuz they never give pp anything decent and they always give wc overpowered stuff
i use more mp to buff, i buff more slowly, i miss some important buffs/combos, i have less dd ability, but i get mana steal which is close to useless and wc gets super imba mp vr
i feel again to be in right to QQ a lot as always
Make sure you got a saddle if not you'll get bucked off pretty bad and how can anyone complain about a good thing that doesn't make sense to me?
I've read where you tried to explain it and i'm still clueless since pvp in this games supposed to be about a players skill in how they play thier characters or am i wrong.
If i'm right then how do you fix the balance issue if jimmy can play his toon in the cheapest common gear for his , say lvl 70 OL and he always beats sammy whose gone out and ebayed all his gear for his 70 OL and has top gear. Issues like that most likely happen in game but maybe i'm way off.
But back on topic having this is nice cuz i checked it out and loved how i got my mp back and glad i didn't have to sit on my butt for 30 minutes regaining my mp to buff again which was the case before update and a reason i use light becuase it had the best mp regen for my OL.
It's for all of us that solo and aren't rich enough to 40 box in this game so thanks NCSOFT for the help.
@Trensharo: would you had complained if Soultaker had gotten something that allowed them to transfer 100% of the damage they took over to theyr servitor that is perma buffed with a celestial shield type buff so that they take no damage?
Yes.
I would have.
You can read my posting history, or this thread, to get the answer to that question.
Make sure you got a saddle if not you'll get bucked off pretty bad and how can anyone complain about a good thing that doesn't make sense to me?
Because it's not balanced?
Yep. Works by hitting an NPC in town. If you buff youself VR on a WC used to buff in town for PvP or whatnot people won't be able to even kill you if they try putting damage shield on, say, the gatekeeper.
will people be happy if they made the prophet have the mana vamp too?
no. then the healers will cry and then the nukers will cry and then the summoners will cry and then all the rest of the classes will cry for unlimited mp...it's in the human nature to complain about something...
im starting to truly enjoy ol again. its not a pity party character any longer. if you dont like the changes, delete it and make an archer. then please bytch when they crit nearly everyone for 4-8k dmg
It's nobody's fault if you're overpowered, outgeared, outleveled, etc. in PvP. That has nothing to do with this skill, either.
then why are you QQ about this?
most of the players (if you can call them that) don't even know what PvE is so if you don't see any problems with it in PvP then I doubt NCSoft will get many complains about this anc change it.
Heres an idea lets all do the exact same damage with our skills no matter what class or race so we can satisfy those players in need of a "balanced" game so then we get the feel of well balanced Xbox or Playstation game. I'm all for it so guys write up the petition where do i sign.
Seriousely why the crap do we need a balanced game when for example an Orc is "Supposed to be stronger" than elves and humans or have i been in Eva too long. The game will never be balanced becuase of a players skill regardless of what your characters skills are or am i definately missing something?
Why are we crying and trying to keep this game from getting better with all the talk of wanting to nerf the kazooie out of everything good we get as far as skills go? How about instead of nerfing this on Orc's we give the buffer classes that aren't orcs a MP VR BUFF if they don't allready have one? Is that such a bad idea to leave the good stuff alone and find ways to get the rest of the races on the same sheet of music?
Lets figure out ways to lvl the playing field that way shall we instead of screaming" NERF IT IT'S WAY TOO MUCH" because honestly crying about a good thing makes people sound ******ed like your a mental case and sorry but that's what it sounds like to me and i'm not out to offend anyone by saying that but would like people to stop screaming "NERF IT NERF IT" everytime a good thing get's in game.
Heres an idea lets all do the exact same damage with our skills no matter what class or race so we can satisfy those players in need of a "balanced" game so then we get the feel of well balanced Xbox or Playstation game. I'm all for it so guys write up the petition where do i sign.
Seriousely why the crap do we need a balanced game when for example an Orc is "Supposed to be stronger" than elves and humans or have i been in Eva too long. The game will never be balanced becuase of a players skill regardless of what your characters skills are or am i definately missing something?
Why are we crying and trying to keep this game from getting better with all the talk of wanting to nerf the kazooie out of everything good we get as far as skills go? How about instead of nerfing this on Orc's we give the buffer classes that aren't orcs a MP VR BUFF if they don't allready have one? Is that such a bad idea to leave the good stuff alone and find ways to get the rest of the races on the same sheet of music?
Lets figure out ways to lvl the playing field that way shall we instead of screaming" NERF IT IT'S WAY TOO MUCH" because honestly crying about a good thing makes people sound ******ed like your a mental case and sorry but that's what it sounds like to me and i'm not out to offend anyone by saying that but would like people to stop screaming "NERF IT NERF IT" everytime a good thing get's in game.
strong words for someone who is beeing overpowered, i would love to see you to be on the other side, wont even bother explaining what is balancing about etc
strong words for someone who is beeing overpowered, i would love to see you to be on the other side, wont even bother explaining what is balancing about etc
I got 7 toons i play and i've played every race. I had a DE nuker with fists to D grade a LE buffer in light with fists to D grade got bored with both becuase of playstyle almost had a PP but got bored before D grade and currently i have my AW,OL,TYRANT,WL,PR, over 40 then soon as 1 toon is out of academy deleting so i have a Destroyer and i'm making a light armor Gladiator.
My 66 OL in common light tallum with common blood tornadoes isn't even close to being "OVERPOWERED" thank you very much if he was then i wouldn't be catching dirt all the time becuase of my playstyle and have a crap load of sp where i max skills everytime i get to train up. Plus it seems all my spells get resisted when i try them.
Only thing that makes me "OVERPOWERED" is the fact that i'm in 1 very great clan and my clan mates are awesome. Without my clan i fail to see how i'm "OVERPOWERED" with this mp vr that helps me lvl better solo.
I seriously tired of this QQ about overpower stuff,
stop with this QQ not sense about good stuff..
I stop playing my SR because of this nerf st... mentality.
Instead of been cry babies, think positive and ask for better skills for every race, what we dont need is a game with endless grind. Nobody is his/her right mind loves farming at all..
Is a **** good thing somebody in Korea realized that at least OL/WC need some kind of boost, so the number of buffers increase, at the same time allow new players level up faster reaching top levels with this two kind of classes by providing support to the long veteran that this game has with 79+, which pretty much is a combination of Archers/DD/Tanks/Wizards (Real People), Healers(90% Boxes), to level up faster, so they added this new skill. Do you guys realized how long will take new players to actually be part of sieges or any event at all, and most of them will quit before they even reach that stage? how this game is suppose to survive? if they go WITH NERF THIS NERF THAT....
We need new players, and now this new players base have the chance to become 70+ without the endless grinding process that can make somebody go insane, trust me sitting for a couple of minutes and not sitting does have an impact in new players, which is really positive.
Is a **** good thing somebody in Korea realized that at least OL/WC need some kind of boost
Yeah, the Warcriers especially were so amazingly underpowered that nobody wanted to play one. I can't even begin to think a party which would prefer a WC over any other buffer before this new skill. Thanks NC, you finally gave poor Warcriers a chance beyond miserable soloing... /sarcasm
Are you serious people, WC needing a boost? Have you ever played other buffers? Live? To end game?
Are you serious people, WC needing a boost? Have you ever played other buffers? Live? To end game?
I have played both SE and EE to lvl 75/76 live.
On the EE I got help to lvl up, but after inquisitor was added I started to play my SE after the EE got to lvl 76.
I soloed my way from 73 to 75 on the SE with inquisitor in places where herbs droped and I was lvling extremely fast (partly because of the revita pops) it took me around 10 days to get those 2 lvls.
Soloing an EE/SE/Cardinal is alot easier than to solo an WC, but with an equal lvl great wolf the WC is a great char to play (with or without the mana vr). My WC that I play from time to time is now almost lvl 70.
I have also tried to play as a PP that I got to almost lvl 60 and I agree with many of the PP players that posts in this thread that they need some more. The passive chance mana vr thing they got is nice, but it would be nicer if they swaped the effect so that the PP got the good type that the WC/OL has now and give the WC/OL the one that the PP have. They need the MP more than the WC/OL to buff the entire party.
Don't ask why, but I like to play support classes even when I know they are bad in PvP...not that I PvP that often.
Its all in how you play. I usually get a group whenever I log on if I look for one. I think I have solod for about 2 hours in since I came back about 2 weeks ago, and most of that was because I felt like soloing.
As a side note, there are certain mage classes that have this toggle that gives 50-80% of the damage to their servitor that they can keep on permanently without losing mp. (Yes I realize that you have to overenchant it to get 80%).
This mp vr for orc mages is not going to get them ANYWHERE CLOSE To the leveling speed of "nuker x" with a kookaburra, or any real DD with a buffalo, cougar, or wolf. It is not going to cause them to be soloing on hellbound, or any other high xp area like some classes.
We can however at least farm some AA by ourselves for weak xp, or duo with an SE or bladedancer for enough progress to clear at least an 8 spawn in a catacomb. This lunacy of soloing in FOG may be possible for a pull or two with full enchanted IC and a ++++ Saint spear/300 water...or with dynasty/icarus/vesper.
OLD CONTENT. This change helps a ton with cancel-happy Ncsoft. Rebuffs are necessary, right now we can cope with rebuffing during the standard "I'm xping, now I'm jumped by war targets, and cancelled, rebuff, whack mobs to get mp back for the inevitable soulhound stealing my buffs unresistably again every 17 seconds, rebuff party from the daggers and gks cancelling with their pvp augs, rebuff again...
I find everyone crying for a nerf of this ability shallow and jealous for no reason, other than prophets who have a LEGITIMATE GRIPE due to being passed over forever. Be happy that your overlords might actually play the game or *gasp* get past 79 or 80 with this skill so YOU can win sieges, have better buffs, and can actually KILL THINGS faster than 1100 patk 790 atk speed 210 crit rate runnin to the mobs with no VR and requiring a GSAP:P
There are SO MANY OTHER SKILLS in this game that are FAR more imbalanced than this is that I don't even want to get into it, ones that MATTER in pvp as well as pve. Frenzy+zealot+guts? Hello this is as broken as anything STILL. Xfer pain. Hacked. 79 Summoner Pets took a nerf but they are still ridiculous. Mental shield...why is this buff making like 10 skills pointless? Cancel (the spell) is fine but what the heck is with all the pvp augs cancelling on melee? Steal Divinity? yay my B grade kamael can debuff 100% 85 toon. Weee. Slug/Buster/Crusher. LOL. Empowering echoes+Arcane Power stacking...lol TSS enchanted for element doing 16k damage in one hit...
This game is not balanced, and it never will be 100%. I want to know how a 79 overlord soloing 4 hours for .4% is IMBA, or being able to provide a party for his/her clanmates *just add whomever* when they login after work is a bad thing. You won't see overlords rolling any "enforcers" in olympiad, or racking up huge PVP counts until 83's onslaught with a lot of gear and time invested.
If you try to insinuate that this mp drain is more IMBA than enlightenment, Empowering Echoes, Arcane Power, Wind Vortex, Slug... LOLOLOLOLOL
I don't want anyone else nerfed except steal divinity. That skill should NOT work 100%. with the recast on it set at 17 seconds, somewhere between 50 and 75% seems more reasonable, or at least put a level cap on it so it doesnt work if your opponent is more than 10 levels higher than you :P Right now a B grade SB can steal at 100% chance on level 83 toons (probably 85s but I haven't ever tested that).
P.S. I see no reason why Prophets shouldn't get an equivalent haste2/vr combo buff or critical combo buff, or both. I also feel they should receive the mp drain that OL/WC have.
my 2 adenas. Is the mp vr nice? YES Is it the best thing that's happened to overlords in a while? Yes. Is it going to throw the balance of the game completely out of whack? No. Will overlords be soloing raid bosses with it? Nope. Will overlords be able to kill an entire party of opponents with it? Nope. Will it cause castles to change hands and the way the game is played to change for everyone? No. Will it impact PVP? Very very little.
Shame on you all for calling for nerfs. This isn't even CLOSE To blockade's game breaking "Hi I can 2 man Lillith" or completely ******ing your enemy's siege force with a few button pushes. Blockade warranted a nerf, nobody should be soloing raid bosses *looks over at the 10 billion titans that have been doing that with boxed support for 4 chronicles*. This is something that will help EVERY CLAN on the servers.
There is a LARGE difference between Imbalance and Jealousy. Someone call the waaaaAAAAAHHHHmbulance :P
As a side note, there are certain mage classes that have this toggle that gives 50-80% of the damage to their servitor that they can keep on permanently without losing mp. (Yes I realize that you have to overenchant it to get 80%).
This mp vr for orc mages is not going to get them ANYWHERE CLOSE To the leveling speed of "nuker x" with a kookaburra, or any real DD with a buffalo, cougar, or wolf. It is not going to cause them to be soloing on hellbound, or any other high xp area like some classes.
We can however at least farm some AA by ourselves for weak xp, or duo with an SE or bladedancer for enough progress to clear at least an 8 spawn in a catacomb. This lunacy of soloing in FOG may be possible for a pull or two with full enchanted IC and a ++++ Saint spear/300 water...or with dynasty/icarus/vesper.
OLD CONTENT. This change helps a ton with cancel-happy Ncsoft. Rebuffs are necessary, right now we can cope with rebuffing during the standard "I'm xping, now I'm jumped by war targets, and cancelled, rebuff, whack mobs to get mp back for the inevitable soulhound stealing my buffs unresistably again every 17 seconds, rebuff party from the daggers and gks cancelling with their pvp augs, rebuff again...
I find everyone crying for a nerf of this ability shallow and jealous for no reason, other than prophets who have a LEGITIMATE GRIPE due to being passed over forever. Be happy that your overlords might actually play the game or *gasp* get past 79 or 80 with this skill so YOU can win sieges, have better buffs, and can actually KILL THINGS faster than 1100 patk 790 atk speed 210 crit rate runnin to the mobs with no VR and requiring a GSAP:P
There are SO MANY OTHER SKILLS in this game that are FAR more imbalanced than this is that I don't even want to get into it, ones that MATTER in pvp as well as pve. Frenzy+zealot+guts? Hello this is as broken as anything STILL. Xfer pain. Hacked. 79 Summoner Pets took a nerf but they are still ridiculous. Mental shield...why is this buff making like 10 skills pointless? Cancel (the spell) is fine but what the heck is with all the pvp augs cancelling on melee? Steal Divinity? yay my B grade kamael can debuff 100% 85 toon. Weee. Slug/Buster/Crusher. LOL. Empowering echoes+Arcane Power stacking...lol TSS enchanted for element doing 16k damage in one hit...
This game is not balanced, and it never will be 100%. I want to know how a 79 overlord soloing 4 hours for .4% is IMBA, or being able to provide a party for his/her clanmates *just add whomever* when they login after work is a bad thing. You won't see overlords rolling any "enforcers" in olympiad, or racking up huge PVP counts until 83's onslaught with a lot of gear and time invested.
If you try to insinuate that this mp drain is more IMBA than enlightenment, Empowering Echoes, Arcane Power, Wind Vortex, Slug... LOLOLOLOLOL
I don't want anyone else nerfed except steal divinity. That skill should NOT work 100%. with the recast on it set at 17 seconds, somewhere between 50 and 75% seems more reasonable, or at least put a level cap on it so it doesnt work if your opponent is more than 10 levels higher than you :P Right now a B grade SB can steal at 100% chance on level 83 toons (probably 85s but I haven't ever tested that).
P.S. I see no reason why Prophets shouldn't get an equivalent haste2/vr combo buff or critical combo buff, or both. I also feel they should receive the mp drain that OL/WC have.
my 2 adenas. Is the mp vr nice? YES Is it the best thing that's happened to overlords in a while? Yes. Is it going to throw the balance of the game completely out of whack? No. Will overlords be soloing raid bosses with it? Nope. Will overlords be able to kill an entire party of opponents with it? Nope. Will it cause castles to change hands and the way the game is played to change for everyone? No. Will it impact PVP? Very very little.
Shame on you all for calling for nerfs. This isn't even CLOSE To blockade's game breaking "Hi I can 2 man Lillith" or completely ******ing your enemy's siege force with a few button pushes. Blockade warranted a nerf, nobody should be soloing raid bosses *looks over at the 10 billion titans that have been doing that with boxed support for 4 chronicles*. This is something that will help EVERY CLAN on the servers.
There is a LARGE difference between Imbalance and Jealousy. Someone call the waaaaAAAAAHHHHmbulance :P
Steal divinity is 12 seconds reuse... and it is the only skill that makes us good at pvp. If it is nerfed then we become nothing... again. And btw, still a GK or duelist (or any heavy dd) can kill a soulhound without buffs. As you said, this game is not balanced, but as you stated that it is not the new MP VR skill that makes the game that way, I tell you that neither Steal Divinity makes this game imba.
But I'm glad that finally our class is having something to talk about... one advice, adapt to things and don't QQ for nerfs on others skills.
As a side note, there are certain mage classes that have this toggle that gives 50-80% of the damage to their servitor that they can keep on permanently without losing mp. (Yes I realize that you have to overenchant it to get 80%).
This mp vr for orc mages is not going to get them ANYWHERE CLOSE To the leveling speed of "nuker x" with a kookaburra, or any real DD with a buffalo, cougar, or wolf. It is not going to cause them to be soloing on hellbound, or any other high xp area like some classes.
We can however at least farm some AA by ourselves for weak xp, or duo with an SE or bladedancer for enough progress to clear at least an 8 spawn in a catacomb. This lunacy of soloing in FOG may be possible for a pull or two with full enchanted IC and a ++++ Saint spear/300 water...or with dynasty/icarus/vesper.
OLD CONTENT. This change helps a ton with cancel-happy Ncsoft. Rebuffs are necessary, right now we can cope with rebuffing during the standard "I'm xping, now I'm jumped by war targets, and cancelled, rebuff, whack mobs to get mp back for the inevitable soulhound stealing my buffs unresistably again every 17 seconds, rebuff party from the daggers and gks cancelling with their pvp augs, rebuff again...
I find everyone crying for a nerf of this ability shallow and jealous for no reason, other than prophets who have a LEGITIMATE GRIPE due to being passed over forever. Be happy that your overlords might actually play the game or *gasp* get past 79 or 80 with this skill so YOU can win sieges, have better buffs, and can actually KILL THINGS faster than 1100 patk 790 atk speed 210 crit rate runnin to the mobs with no VR and requiring a GSAP:P
There are SO MANY OTHER SKILLS in this game that are FAR more imbalanced than this is that I don't even want to get into it, ones that MATTER in pvp as well as pve. Frenzy+zealot+guts? Hello this is as broken as anything STILL. Xfer pain. Hacked. 79 Summoner Pets took a nerf but they are still ridiculous. Mental shield...why is this buff making like 10 skills pointless? Cancel (the spell) is fine but what the heck is with all the pvp augs cancelling on melee? Steal Divinity? yay my B grade kamael can debuff 100% 85 toon. Weee. Slug/Buster/Crusher. LOL. Empowering echoes+Arcane Power stacking...lol TSS enchanted for element doing 16k damage in one hit...
This game is not balanced, and it never will be 100%. I want to know how a 79 overlord soloing 4 hours for .4% is IMBA, or being able to provide a party for his/her clanmates *just add whomever* when they login after work is a bad thing. You won't see overlords rolling any "enforcers" in olympiad, or racking up huge PVP counts until 83's onslaught with a lot of gear and time invested.
If you try to insinuate that this mp drain is more IMBA than enlightenment, Empowering Echoes, Arcane Power, Wind Vortex, Slug... LOLOLOLOLOL
I don't want anyone else nerfed except steal divinity. That skill should NOT work 100%. with the recast on it set at 17 seconds, somewhere between 50 and 75% seems more reasonable, or at least put a level cap on it so it doesnt work if your opponent is more than 10 levels higher than you :P Right now a B grade SB can steal at 100% chance on level 83 toons (probably 85s but I haven't ever tested that).
P.S. I see no reason why Prophets shouldn't get an equivalent haste2/vr combo buff or critical combo buff, or both. I also feel they should receive the mp drain that OL/WC have.
my 2 adenas. Is the mp vr nice? YES Is it the best thing that's happened to overlords in a while? Yes. Is it going to throw the balance of the game completely out of whack? No. Will overlords be soloing raid bosses with it? Nope. Will overlords be able to kill an entire party of opponents with it? Nope. Will it cause castles to change hands and the way the game is played to change for everyone? No. Will it impact PVP? Very very little.
Shame on you all for calling for nerfs. This isn't even CLOSE To blockade's game breaking "Hi I can 2 man Lillith" or completely ******ing your enemy's siege force with a few button pushes. Blockade warranted a nerf, nobody should be soloing raid bosses *looks over at the 10 billion titans that have been doing that with boxed support for 4 chronicles*. This is something that will help EVERY CLAN on the servers.
There is a LARGE difference between Imbalance and Jealousy. Someone call the waaaaAAAAAHHHHmbulance :P
Give pps vr....? >.> how about just take it from wcs....
Steal divinity and ols/wcs mana vr are both overpowered so shut up : o
As a side note, there are certain mage classes that have this toggle that gives 50-80% of the damage to their servitor that they can keep on permanently without losing mp. (Yes I realize that you have to overenchant it to get 80%).
You have no MP Regen with Transfer Pain on. You regen like 1 MP a tick on a Necro in DC Robes with -8 MEN (Tats). It is simply not feasable to run with Transfer Pain on all the time in a PvE group (or PvP), and expect to have Infinite Mana.
In PvE groups Transfer Pain is toggled on and off when needed, as well as PvP. You will need Recharges to keep it on. Even Summoners have some level of Higher Mana Gain, and you can always sub nuker to increase the amount of MP you get back from Recharges (+ Mana Gain buff), so let's not go there. The options are there.
Nukers and Summoners do not get MP back from general attacks. Grinding with Transfer Pain on = Mana Out. Why do you think people asked for the toggles to be revamped to not stop you when you turn them on and off? People are always trying to conserve their mana and trying to kite someone and turning a toggle off was counterproductive and wasted MP Regen Ticks...
Compare that to an Overlord, as I demonstrated very well.
They can run with Soul Cry (Drains MP) and Soul Guard (Drains A LOT of MP) indefinitely because of the MP VR. An OL is supposed to be out of MP in ~2-3 minutes running those toggles together. The whole reason why those Toggles have MP Cost (TP/SC/SG) is to discourage classes from having them up all the time. Benefits always have detriments. This is Lineage II.
This mp vr for orc mages is not going to get them ANYWHERE CLOSE To the leveling speed of "nuker x" with a kookaburra, or any real DD with a buffalo, cougar, or wolf. It is not going to cause them to be soloing on hellbound, or any other high xp area like some classes.
Nukers require boxed buffers just to level. We are not support classes. A kookaburra is not enough for a nuker to maintain a factorable leveling speed.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
We can however at least farm some AA by ourselves for weak xp, or duo with an SE or bladedancer for enough progress to clear at least an 8 spawn in a catacomb. This lunacy of soloing in FOG may be possible for a pull or two with full enchanted IC and a ++++ Saint spear/300 water...or with dynasty/icarus/vesper.
Yep, cause I'm gonna go Solo a Cata, probably full of Dark Resist 4x HP MOBs with an unbuffed Servitor and Dark Nukes? Oh wait, I got transfer pain that nerfs my regen down to nothing. Very strong. I think an OL will do much better than my Soul Taker at a lower level.
Wait...
I know this, cause I've tried it...
Silent Valley is trivial with them too. I think that is where all the Orc Mage classes will end up soloing, TBH...
OLD CONTENT. This change helps a ton with cancel-happy Ncsoft. Rebuffs are necessary, right now we can cope with rebuffing during the standard "I'm xping, now I'm jumped by war targets, and cancelled, rebuff, whack mobs to get mp back for the inevitable soulhound stealing my buffs unresistably again every 17 seconds, rebuff party from the daggers and gks cancelling with their pvp augs, rebuff again...
*care face*
I find everyone crying for a nerf of this ability shallow and jealous for no reason, other than prophets who have a LEGITIMATE GRIPE due to being passed over forever. Be happy that your overlords might actually play the game or *gasp* get past 79 or 80 with this skill so YOU can win sieges, have better buffs, and can actually KILL THINGS faster than 1100 patk 790 atk speed 210 crit rate runnin to the mobs with no VR and requiring a GSAP:P
Look at my signature, and think a little. Do I look like I'm "jealous" of what I got in this update? Self-Hate is that strong?
There are SO MANY OTHER SKILLS in this game that are FAR more imbalanced than this is that I don't even want to get into it, ones that MATTER in pvp as well as pve. Frenzy+zealot+guts? Hello this is as broken as anything STILL. Xfer pain. Hacked. 79 Summoner Pets took a nerf but they are still ridiculous. Mental shield...why is this buff making like 10 skills pointless? Cancel (the spell) is fine but what the heck is with all the pvp augs cancelling on melee? Steal Divinity? yay my B grade kamael can debuff 100% 85 toon. Weee. Slug/Buster/Crusher. LOL. Empowering echoes+Arcane Power stacking...lol TSS enchanted for element doing 16k damage in one hit...
There are threads about that. If you want to discuss it, start a thread.
This thread is about MP VR given to Orcs, which is obviously balanced only if you are obviously ******ed.
^^ That has nothing to do with me thinking I'm right, correct, whatever word you want to choose. It's just that obvious.
This game is not balanced, and it never will be 100%. I want to know how a 79 overlord soloing 4 hours for .4% is IMBA, or being able to provide a party for his/her clanmates *just add whomever* when they login after work is a bad thing. You won't see overlords rolling any "enforcers" in olympiad, or racking up huge PVP counts until 83's onslaught with a lot of gear and time invested.
That doesn't mean they should purposely introduce more imbalance into the game, or allow this imbalance to stay. Games are constantly evolving. It should evolve to a point where this mechanic is removed - asap.
If you try to insinuate that this mp drain is more IMBA than enlightenment, Empowering Echoes, Arcane Power, Wind Vortex, Slug... LOLOLOLOLOL
Have you seen my screen shots? 1.4k P.Def 1k+ P.Atk up indifinitely in robes soloing white MOBs and taking pretty non-factor damage. Do you think that's balanced?
Empowering of Echo rapes the MP Consumption of a StSc. Arcane Power does the same. Arcane Power drains a lot of HP causing you to blow lots of adena on Greater Healing Potions. Arcane Power + Empoewring Echo is not for PvE. StSc have the same issues every other nuke have in PvE, except less since they have pretty much every Mana skill for nukers in the game + Death Spike. They cannot level indefinitely without lots of support. You are forgetting that WC and OL are support classes. They should not be able to solo as well as a Bounty Hunter (for example) whilst maintaining full MP all the time.
There is this thing called Wind Resist on you Armor and Buffs. I have already spoken about the StSc in another thread. Read it. You seem to be tryin to point out that I play a Necro (which you think is overpowered) while calling me a hypocrite. If you read these forums, you'll see that I am not one to shy away from calling NCSoft out on their stupidity.
Enlightenment is 20 seconds every 10 minutes. I mean, Gladiators and Tyrants got UDs. Tanks can reflect nukes back (had one use it on my in arena, I had PoW so I could not stop myself from nuking 2 extra nukes thanks to the new reuse ********). That is fine, however. You're very credible. /SarcasmOff
I don't want anyone else nerfed except steal divinity. That skill should NOT work 100%. with the recast on it set at 17 seconds, somewhere between 50 and 75% seems more reasonable, or at least put a level cap on it so it doesnt work if your opponent is more than 10 levels higher than you :P Right now a B grade SB can steal at 100% chance on level 83 toons (probably 85s but I haven't ever tested that).
*care face*
P.S. I see no reason why Prophets shouldn't get an equivalent haste2/vr combo buff or critical combo buff, or both. I also feel they should receive the mp drain that OL/WC have.
I think the MP Drain the OL/WC have should be removed and they should get the equivalent skill that Prophets have. The MP Drain on a PP is nothing compared to that on a WC and OL. They don't have Soul Cry, Orcs have higher base STR and DEX (faster attacks/more crits). Prophets do not have toggles like Soul Cry and Soul Guard to indefinitely run with Tank-level P.Def in Heavy Armor for Solo or group PvE (with infinite mana to boot).
I find your "suggestion" cute, but it's utter crap.
my 2 adenas. Is the mp vr nice? YES Is it the best thing that's happened to overlords in a while? Yes. Is it going to throw the balance of the game completely out of whack? No. Will overlords be soloing raid bosses with it? Nope. Will overlords be able to kill an entire party of opponents with it? Nope. Will it cause castles to change hands and the way the game is played to change for everyone? No. Will it impact PVP? Very very little.
Do you PvP much?
Shame on you all for calling for nerfs. This isn't even CLOSE To blockade's game breaking "Hi I can 2 man Lillith" or completely ******ing your enemy's siege force with a few button pushes. Blockade warranted a nerf, nobody should be soloing raid bosses *looks over at the 10 billion titans that have been doing that with boxed support for 4 chronicles*. This is something that will help EVERY CLAN on the servers.
Hi...
I don't want anyone else nerfed except steal divinity.
Hypocrite.
Blockade helped clans to. Who cares?
[[[ That's a rhetorical question.... ]]]
There is a LARGE difference between Imbalance and Jealousy. Someone call the waaaaAAAAAHHHHmbulance :P
Again. Look at my signature. I have an Orc with a sub. What the **** am I jealous of?
I expect a nerf for steal divinity, esp. if a lot more people reroll the class... still, without it you are a nuker/melee dd with hold, stun, teleport, invincibility, cleanse, a UD or UE, several physical damage skills, your own empower, some sick debuffs, and a full power aoe nuke. Soul Hound already has a slew of excellent skills, it's a very solid class without steal divinity.
I totally disagree with steal divinity being the only thing that makes you good in pvp and that you are nothing without it. If that is what you really think you need to get a lot better at using all the other skills of your class.
With it you just become insanely overpowered is all, lol... not that I'm complaining! All the good Soul Hounds of my server are in my clan so I'm glad for some Kamael revenge, and my class can still kill ya so I don't really mind :P
As for shaman mp vr, I think it's a very good change, gets em off their butts and into DD mode where they CAN do excellent damage. I always prefer supports in my parties to help DD as much as they can instead of sit or autofollow all the dang time. now imagine shaman with recharge augment... now THAT would be really nice for a party.
As for shaman mp vr, I think it's a very good change, gets em off their butts and into DD mode where they CAN do excellent damage. I always prefer supports in my parties to help DD as much as they can instead of sit or autofollow all the dang time. now imagine shaman with recharge augment... now THAT would be really nice for a party.
That is part of the issue with the Orc Mystic classes.
They already can do too many excellent things.
Self-Recharge was nerfed on Oracles for a reason. Why the **** take it away from SE/EE and give it to Orcs in some bastardized and overpowered form?
Their DD capabilities are far superior to the other Mystic Classes (due to Soul Cry) and OL Defenses with this are just too IMBA.
It's as if NCSoft developers don't know how to do their job.
why are some people talking about SOLO WC/OL ?
problem with OL/WC mp drain is primary not about soloing. If you go with full party and you have WC in it, then after buffs you have mainstream DD (soul cry). WIthout need to sit for MP. After PP buff entire party you have what ?
Try to not look at this from dual box perspective - as archers buff pet PP is suitable, but as live played character ?
there are orc mystics: mass buffing, improved fighting ability (soul cry, soul guard), drain, PHYSICAL SKILL (stun), mp vr, except emp+wm for WC and vamp for OL, they can cover all necessary buffs
"healers": some preffered for trains, some for pvp/raids, improved fighting ability (inquisitor stance) + EE/bish turn undead (solo rift), invocation, unique skills (stigma, resist shock, restore life ...)
PP: single target buffing, no improved fighting ability, weak mana restore ability (compared to other "party assist wizards" and "healers")
UNIQUE SKILLS: now wait for it ....
Invigor, Resist fire, Word of fear (this isnt really unique skill, there are much better fears)
hello!! prophet does not have single skill that does even 1 damage to anyone (undeads, players)
OL was supposed to be clan buffer/debuffer for mass events like DB or sieges (any kind) so he should have been raised by clan. Not by random party as it is now...
What is the point of increased MP cost for mass buffs (compared to single target) if they can be cast more often than single target buffs due to overpowered MP vr ?
As for Steal divinity - it is not cancel. Do you have any idea what steal divinity does when you use it during CS on almost any enemy ?
you got debuffed too !! (or you can be pr0 and run in siege zone with 3 potions - haste, ww, acu)
You steal songs/dances that most you have already on and some garbage for shield from tanks(you cant even wear shield ...), some archer nonsesne (same for nukers with seeds) and if enemy didnt have too many S/D you may be lucky enought to strip them from final buff. After using skill second time you will 100% pop some of your own buffs (soul hound needs more buffs than nuker/fighter)
One very important thing: soul hounds and necromancers are DARK BASED characters (I hope, that elaboration of this atribute for end game zones and pvp agains players that grind in those locations isnt necessary)
Ok, just what will a shaman be meleeing in a siege or pvp situation? It looks like it will have much more impact in pve than pvp. I don't think it needs nerfing atm, I think it's a nice change to nudge shamans into a different playstyle, and I'm curious to see how exactly someone will figure out how to make it so imbalanced it has to be nerfed.
Ok, just what will a shaman be meleeing in a siege or pvp situation? It looks like it will have much more impact in pve than pvp. I don't think it needs nerfing atm, I think it's a nice change to nudge shamans into a different playstyle, and I'm curious to see how exactly someone will figure out how to make it so imbalanced it has to be nerfed.
teleporting gatekeepers inside castle ? NPCs spreaded around siege zone ?
Nukers require boxed buffers just to level. We are not support classes. A kookaburra is not enough for a nuker to maintain a factorable leveling speed.
What buff is it that you don't get from the kookaburra? PoW? Dance on Concentration? WM?
You do get Emp3, Acu3, bts6 and alot of mp. That is more than enough to lvl a nuker...atleast it's enough to solo inquisitor on a bishop and my kookaburra isn't 65 yet so it doesn't have acu3 so I use acu2 that the bish got.
And again why does it require a boxed buffer? Why not try to get a live one? Oh I forgot....L2 isn't an MMORPG game...it's just an RPG game
I expect a nerf for steal divinity, esp. if a lot more people reroll the class... still, without it you are a nuker/melee dd with hold, stun, teleport, invincibility, cleanse, a UD or UE, several physical damage skills, your own empower, some sick debuffs, and a full power aoe nuke. Soul Hound already has a slew of excellent skills, it's a very solid class without steal divinity.
I totally disagree with steal divinity being the only thing that makes you good in pvp and that you are nothing without it. If that is what you really think you need to get a lot better at using all the other skills of your class.
It's not that hard to see... a skill can be considered "OP" when it gives a really great advantage both in PVE and PVP, not when it makes you good at something. Steal Divinity only works for pvp, so you don't have any real advantage on pve to consider it OP... besides it's the balance factor to actually have a chance against nukers/archers... a tyrant GK without buffs or a tank can actually beat the crap out of a soulhound... you see them QQ? no... only ppl who's more affected by it wants the nerf... this skill has been working the same since it's creation, it has only been affected by the general reuse time... Ppl never complained because reuse was so high that you could survive without some buffs... Skills that were broken or "OP" (like the previous Shadow Bind that could be used 100% landrate on bosses). I thought that Shining Edge was broken before but then I had to live with the fact that we aren't true daggers, so that's the way it is.
So what if ppl re-rolls again to sb, just for one skill? that is only good for pvp?? this class is not like that, you need to really like it to level it up that high.
Honestly, you ppl who complain on everything are only gonna drown in their own tears... if you need to qq about something... tell gm's to ban botters.
What buff is it that you don't get from the kookaburra? PoW? Dance on Concentration? WM?
You do get Emp3, Acu3, bts6 and alot of mp. That is more than enough to lvl a nuker...atleast it's enough to solo inquisitor on a bishop and my kookaburra isn't 65 yet so it doesn't have acu3 so I use acu2 that the bish got.
And again why does it require a boxed buffer? Why not try to get a live one? Oh I forgot....L2 isn't an MMORPG game...it's just an RPG game
Shield 3, Berserker Spirit 2, Wild Magic 2, Blessed Body 6, Wind Walk 2, Mental Shield 4, Magic Barrier
to name a few.
I dunno where you XP. But where I XP a Kooka would mean I lose more XP than I gain every day, and eventually delevel if I'm so adamant as to keep trying.
Please don't post back to me and try to teach me how to level a Mage using Inquisitor as an example. I have leveled 2 mages to 75+ and another to 68. I know what I need to XP both safely and with adequate efficiency.
It's not that hard to see... a skill can be considered "OP" when it gives a really great advantage both in PVE and PVP, not when it makes you good at something. Steal Divinity only works for pvp, so you don't have any real advantage on pve to consider it OP... besides it's the balance factor to actually have a chance against nukers/archers... a tyrant GK without buffs or a tank can actually beat the crap out of a soulhound... you see them QQ? no... only ppl who's more affected by it wants the nerf... this skill has been working the same since it's creation, it has only been affected by the general reuse time... Ppl never complained because reuse was so high that you could survive without some buffs... Skills that were broken or "OP" (like the previous Shadow Bind that could be used 100% landrate on bosses). I thought that Shining Edge was broken before but then I had to live with the fact that we aren't true daggers, so that's the way it is.
So what if ppl re-rolls again to sb, just for one skill? that is only good for pvp?? this class is not like that, you need to really like it to level it up that high.
Honestly, you ppl who complain on everything are only gonna drown in their own tears... if you need to qq about something... tell gm's to ban botters.
No, ******.
A skill can be OP in PvE or it can be OP in PvP.
Example: Inquisitor was OP in PvP, so the Devs decreased it's PvP damage by 60% IN PVP.
You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Pure stupidity, yet people wonder why I post with this tone...
Example: Inquisitor was OP in PvP, so the Devs decreased it's PvP damage by 60% IN PVP.
You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Pure stupidity, yet people wonder why I post with this tone...
Don't ever call me ****** again ok? I have never disrespected you, and I don't care to discuss wether something is right or wrong as long as we keep things cool. Are we clear?
Secondible... inquisitor is a stance to make support class able to LEVEL up not to b used for pvp... that's why it was fixed. No one will call an EE to nuke when they can support and heal in pve. So maybe you should reconsider what you actually know and what you do not know about this game.
Stop being ******ed, if you don't want people to call you ******ed. Is that clear?
And you argument about Inquisitor doesn't matter. Your whole point was utter crap.
Skills need to be balanced for PvP and PvE alike. Just because something isn't OP in PvE doesn't mean it isn't OP in PvP.
If something is OP, period, it needs to be balanced. There is no such thing as "it must be OP in BOTH PvE and PvP to be considered OP."
Saying that makes you look very stupid, and like you have very little experience/exposure playing MMORPG games. Everyone seems to be taking the "how is it OP in PvP, then?" stance and that simply isn't the way things work in this game.
Titans weren't exactly the epitome of PvP prowess (outside of Olympiad, and they're still rather strong in it, obviously) but they got nerfed because their PvE abilities were turning out S Graders and Nobles at a rate unintended by the devs. <- Another example.
What I know and do know about the game?
It's not that hard to see... a skill can be considered "OP" when it gives a really great advantage both in PVE and PVP, not when it makes you good at something. Steal Divinity only works for pvp, so you don't have any real advantage on pve to consider it OP...
I know only ******s make those kinds of statements... Please, do get a clue.
Example: Inquisitor was OP in PvP, so the Devs decreased it's PvP damage by 60% IN PVP.
You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Pure stupidity, yet people wonder why I post with this tone...
All "omg overpowered steal divinity" comes from pts, where penetration of soulhounds was hundred times higher than on live servers and people playing other characters trying to show how uber they are were (as always) buffing themselves with "ten rows" of buffs before they made step in MRT arena - of course that they got steal-cancelled.
I still dont get it what is overpowered on this skill ... it does 0 damage
you probably preffer to be IK backstabbed by invisible dagger, oneshoted by TSS, killed by combo vortex+slug, stunned + disarmed(dont you think, that zerker stuns have a "little" high land rate ?). All this skills are ok but if you got reduced your buffs then it's overpowered ?
back on topic: OL/WC mp vr should get replaced by PP version if they want to support buffers to be active in exp groups.
Please quote me in this thread where I said Steal Divinity was overpowered? You're jumping on the bandwagon and poised to embarass yourself sir/madame.
I was responding to this:
It's not that hard to see... a skill can be considered "OP" when it gives a really great advantage both in PVE and PVP, not when it makes you good at something. Steal Divinity only works for pvp, so you don't have any real advantage on pve to consider it OP...
Stop being ******ed, if you don't want people to call you ******ed. Is that clear?
And you argument about Inquisitor doesn't matter. Your whole point was utter crap.
Skills need to be balanced for PvP and PvE alike. Just because something isn't OP in PvE doesn't mean it isn't OP in PvP.
If something is OP, period, it needs to be balanced.
Bye.
Again... it's really shameful how ppl like you cannot be polite... but I guess God gave brain to some ppl and fat fingers to others so they can troll like... isn't it Trensharo. You want to be 100% right all the time? Well you can't, and the sooner you face the fact that the game is like it is now, will save you, me and all the forum readers from all this crap that actually does not contribute in anything to the gaming community.
Btw, I will tell you again, don't call me ****** again since I don't use that kind of offensive typing with you. If you cannot handle what you read here, then don't waste your time posting back.
Another Example. Mana Burn. It wasn't OP in PvP, but it was OP in the old Olympiad (before the Olympaid Buffers, smaller Arena, etc.) so NCSoft nerfed it.
See. Many examples that shot the pure ******edness of that statement:
It's not that hard to see... a skill can be considered "OP" when it gives a really great advantage both in PVE and PVP, not when it makes you good at something. Steal Divinity only works for pvp, so you don't have any real advantage on pve to consider it OP...
----
Do yo know what trolling actually is?
I guess you don't....
You don't have to respond to me, either; and there's a report function. Just report the posts, I don't care, Lol.
Stop spewing ******edness on the forums. You don't know what you're talking about. If you had a brain, you wouldn't have posted that drivel. At least my fat fingers mash the right buttons.
It's not about me being right 100% of the time, it's about people posting crap in the thread that quite frankly is either wrong or doesn't belong there.
If you want me to be nice, stop posting crap.
As I've already said: I don't mind "suggestions", but I don't like crap. Take you crap to Off-Topic; go talk more about WoW vs. Lineage II.
If you don't like my posting style, or what I have to say, take your own advice and stop responding to me. Buh bye.
There's a report function. Just report the posts, I don't care, Lol.
Stop spewing ******edness on the forums. You don't know what you're talking about.
If you had a brain, you wouldn't have posted that drivel.
It's not about me being right 100% of the time, it's about people posting crap in the thread that quite frankly is either wrong or doesn't belong there.
If you want me to be nice, stop posting crap.
As I've already said: I don't mind "suggestions", but I don't like crap. Take you crap to Off-Topic; go talk more about WoW vs. Lineage II.
And you are the one that post nothing but crap. What's that thing about wow?? I've never even played that game... see what I'm talking about? you are the crap poster... and jfyi, YOU ARE WRONG... in everything...
Go find a girlfriend, boyfriend, a pet or whatever you need to release your stress, put a sock in your hand to at least talk to someone for real (I'm pretty sure you won't hear an answer you don't like from it)... anyways.... GF, and bb.
You have yet to disprove anything that I've posted. I have clearly told you why you were stupid for posting what you posted. I do find it cute that you always want to contribute, but you're simply clueless and should stop slamming the keyboard with your own fat fingers.
You don't seem to have played many games... Seriously...
Cute pic, btw.
It's not that hard to see... a skill can be considered "OP" when it gives a really great advantage both in PVE and PVP, not when it makes you good at something. Steal Divinity only works for pvp, so you don't have any real advantage on pve to consider it OP...
What exactly does this MP VR imbalance in your opinion? You do realize that even with toggles up an orc mystic is a mediocre DD (especially higher lvls). I think it makes an OL a more wanted partymember, but not a must have or overpowered char.
Did you read the thread, and my post about how this is much less effective on a PP than on an OL or War Cryer?
Did you read the part about being able to keep toggles up all the time, and OLs having like 1.7k+ P.Def in heavy Armor?
Did you read the part about Burning Chop being almost spammable and having an MP cost of 19? OL and WC have Hammer Crush, the damage isn't too bad...
Do you think it's balanced for a support class to go from 1.9k MP to 4k MP in < 2 minutes without a recharger, while killing MOBs and having Soul Guard + Soul Cry toggled on?
I mean. You'd have to read the thread to see what I think about it, but those are just a few questions and statements to give you a general gist of how I'm feeling about it.
You do realise that most of the benefit lies in the path to 76
The game is changing to make it easier to go through "the early lvls (76-)"
Inquisitor for the support "mages", now mp for us orcs to melee better, next update something for pp to make them able to solo.
From reading this thread I can only conclude that you're dissapointed that the game and maybe only your OL loses some of it hardcoreness. Because the big change is that an OL always needed to be very conservative on skill use because otherwise you couldnt keep your buffs up. Now you buff, turn toggles on, spam every skill you want and never worry about mp again.
After Killing the first MOB (I turned off Soul Cry and Soul Guard to get accurate account of how much MP I got from just meleeing the MOB). I did use 1 Burning Chop on it (so didn't regen any MP for at least that time frame of the attack).
I used 2 Burning Chop and 1 Hammer Crush on it. 108 MP Spent and no MP regened from General Attacks during the time of using those skills (and from skill damage). I turned off Soul Cry and Soul Guard to accurately show how much MP I regened. Well, You can see the messages in system message window... Oh... I also used a heart of Pa'agrio (and Grocery Store Healing Potion) between MOBs. That's why my HP is higher. It costs 239 MP.
So the MP Regen is too fast. In party or solo, it's just too much. That is what I think is to powerful about it... High 800s P.Atk with Common Meteor Shower, something like 1441 P.Def or so...
It has nothing to do with hardcoreness, or whatever you say. It has to do with the fact that it is not balanced and I prefer to play balanced games - or, games where the Dev team is at least trying to balance things...
All I heard is "NERF THIS NERF THAT. OMG I am so Overpower thats NOT RIGHT, UNFAIR!!..." sigh lol :D.
"OH NOES KAMAEL!!! NERF THEM PLEASE TOO..." :eek:
What we have is what Koreans believe is balanced, nothing more nothing less.
Clearly you did not properly comprehend the posts in this thread (and others) where I have clearly stated that I view MMORPG Balance in a very indifferent way. Doesn't matter what class I play. Even when I get a skill that is overpowered, I'm not shy about posting about it - this thread is proof of that fact.
Thanks, though.
And I never called for Kamaels to be nerfed, so I'm going to assume you are referring to someone else.
Clearly you did not properly comprehend the posts in this thread (and others) where I have clearly stated that I view MMORPG Balance in a very indifferent way. Doesn't matter what class I play. Even when I get a skill that is overpowered, I'm not shy about posting about it - this thread is proof of that fact.
Thanks, though.
And I never called for Kamaels to be nerfed, so I'm going to assume you are referring to someone else.
You may think a skill is overpower, but I completely disagree with that, the game its evolving, its not the same game we all enroll for, the dynamics of the game is changing with every single update, and the way I see it, the game will reach the point that new players will reach high level in a really short time, whatever we like it or not, thats the future of L2. This skill alone is a prove of that fact.
I can understand your complain, that now a orc mage can level up faster in a way, and all the hard work you put into your char, now can be reach by some new player who doesnt need to work as hard as you to get his orc mage into really high levels. You may consider that to be Overpower because they can outlevel in your mind any class, which is false, Orc still suck when it comes to DMG, they still are more for support than anything else and this new update only make them more playable, as the mayority of new players that are comming to this game are not as hardcore as you, they may play orc mages and that all will benefit the whole L2 community, as we need a group of orc mages =D.
And if you think this is overpower just wait until we get next update, which will make new players level up so fast, that vit will be a joke, let alone this skill will be just like an option.
You may think a skill is overpower, but I completely disagree with that, the game its evolving, its not the same game we all enroll for, the dynamics of the game is changing with every single update, and the way I see it, the game will reach the point that new players will reach high level in a really short time, whatever we like it or not, thats the future of L2. This skill alone is a prove of that fact.
I can understand your complain, that now a orc mage can level up faster in a way, and all the hard work you put into your char, now can be reach by some new player who doesnt need to work as hard as you to get his orc mage into really high levels. You may consider that to be Overpower because they can outlevel in your mind any class, which is false, Orc still suck when it comes to DMG, they still are more for support than anything else and this new update only make them more playable, as the mayority of new players that are comming to this game are not as hardcore as you, they may play orc mages and that all will benefit the whole L2 community, as we need a group of orc mages =D.
And if you think this is overpower just wait until we get next update, which will make new players level up so fast, that vit will be a joke, let alone this skill will be just like an option.
/signed
but then again this guy is stuborn as hell and wont agree regardless what is said to him.
You may think a skill is overpower, but I completely disagree with that, the game its evolving, its not the same game we all enroll for, the dynamics of the game is changing with every single update, and the way I see it, the game will reach the point that new players will reach high level in a really short time, whatever we like it or not, thats the future of L2. This skill alone is a prove of that fact.
They can do this easily: Increase the XP given by MOBs.
They want people to level faster, but they have levle 78+ field MOBs (IoP) giving less XP than Hames Orc Overlords (BS). Doesn't that seem like a rather idiotic way by allowing people to level faster? Just increase how much XP the MOBs give, or decrease the XP requirements of the levels (they did this for the S Grade levels a few updates back).
Leveling up is only half of "catching" up to end gamers. Being "end game" has to do with more than your character level.
Making the game easier doesn't = crippling it even more than it already is. It's already a Single Player RPG 90% of the time, with a chat box...
I can understand your complain, that now a orc mage can level up faster in a way, and all the hard work you put into your char, now can be reach by some new player who doesnt need to work as hard as you to get his orc mage into really high levels. You may consider that to be Overpower because they can outlevel in your mind any class, which is false, Orc still suck when it comes to DMG, they still are more for support than anything else and this new update only make them more playable, as the mayority of new players that are comming to this game are not as hardcore as you, they may play orc mages and that all will benefit the whole L2 community, as we need a group of orc mages =D.
Poling up buffers and leveling them behind a nuker is hard work. Agree.
And if you think this is overpower just wait until we get next update, which will make new players level up so fast, that vit will be a joke, let alone this skill will be just like an option.
There are other games to play if they wish to continue down this path.
No one told them to make the game have ******ed XP requirements.
Everyone knows the Koreans (and many Asian MMO Communities, TBH) are hardcore PvErs and softcore PvPers. The skill doesn't really suprise me. I jsut thought the developers had more of a clue. They never cease to amaze me/us.
Seems I get 40-50 MP a hit (and 100+ on crits). Can use a bit of skills and still have trouble "wasting mana"...
They did this because some Koreans who probably play 99% WC/OL 1% PP cried about something, not because they are making the game easier. If you think catching up in levels is something they worry about in Korea... Lol. They are 90% no-lifers, there.
Wow, its true, they dont read your posts Tren lol.
Guys, this has nothing to do with you guys or anyone else being able to lvl up an orc mystic faster than anyone did before. It's about NCsoft putting something new on the orc mystics but not looking at the effect of it. It simply is too strong. You should never be able to keep that many toggles up indefinately, not to mention while also buffing, healing, and meleeing.
They basically wanted to improve WC and OL, but went way way too far. If you guys cant see that, then I dont really know how to get through to you.
OL can basically have equal or better pdef in heavy armor than a tank, with more patk as well. I dont really see how this could be "working as intended".
Of course no one wants to read all the crap that Trensharo writes... he spends too much time arguing about unchangeable and useless aspects of the game. I don't care if a WC or OL can mantain a lot of toggles... still gets 3 shoted by a nuker or pwned by a lot of chars... I repeat again, it is not a decisive pvp factor. I don't think it is "imba" at all. As I stated, what was "imba" is to have a wc leeching exp in party... that was it's best skill and it was nerfed now. But he's unable to see that non-orc users are pretty much happy to be assisted by his buffer, specially in a small party.
The thing about Trensharo is that he's a rude ******* that wants to be always right, and the reality of the game is different than what his mind "thinks" it should be. Want to play "balanced" games??
Wow, its true, they dont read your posts Tren lol.
Guys, this has nothing to do with you guys or anyone else being able to lvl up an orc mystic faster than anyone did before. It's about NCsoft putting something new on the orc mystics but not looking at the effect of it. It simply is too strong. You should never be able to keep that many toggles up indefinately, not to mention while also buffing, healing, and meleeing.
Exactly. Look at it this way. The basic idea of the warcryer class (and also to a certain extent the OL class) is to buff a LOT of people FAST. No matter how many people (full party or only the WC himself), the buffs always cost the same. It is by design that the WC can do the buffs once, maybe twice with toggle+clarity, but then he is out of mp and has to regen. Not being able to rebuff several times per buff round when somebody gets cancelled or dies and loses buffs is the balancing for being able to buff a whole party very fast (a prophet can rebuff somebody who gets cancelled, maybe even several times per buff round and STILL can buff the rest of the party when their buffs fade). Also, soul cry / soul guard are not supposed to be on all the time, because then the wc/ol would not be able to rebuff - he would not regen any mp at all.
With this new mp vr, all of this is no longer true. The wc/old does not have any disadvantage anymore compared to a prophet when it comes to REbuffing people. Instead, he is even BETTER at rebuffing people, because he is always at full mp. And the toggles can be on all the time, because the normal mp regen has become completely irrelevant for an orc mystic. Who cares about actually LOSING 5 mp or so per tick instead of regenning mp, when you can leech 100+ mp with each swing of the weapon.
The mp vr is so heavily overpowered that it is ridiculous. If you guys cannot see that, I don't know what else to say.
You have to tell them this skill is balanced and a good change for them to understand.
Romanec stop being ******ed. If you would post relevant and correct information, you wouldn't have to worry about someone as surly as myself responding to it.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Ext read the thread, seriously... If you had read it, you wouldn't have to ask me this - now rhetorical - question.
**** i seriously don't get you guys
at what point would you guys consider something overpowered? if NC wanted orcs to have more pattack/pdef than the average melee class 24/7 they would have made it a passive skill and not a toggle
is it only because you play the class that you consider it reasonable or what?
I really wonder, all the people who think this skill is balanced... have they ever played a non-orc buffer live to 7x?
The imbalance is between the orcs and those other buffers.
It has nothing to do with how tough or easy is or was the orc buffer. Why you keep bringing irrelevant points like the orc buffer "still gets 3 shoted by a nuker or pwned by a lot of chars"? Doesn't that happen to the rest of the buffers?
I know this new skill is sweet and you swim in ecstasy right now but, please, can we all use some common sense here?
It's not overpowered in PvP AND PvE (let's NOT take into account a group having an OL or WC at 100% mana 100% of the time getting ganked....) then it's not overpowered.
Really ******ed, IMO. But that is the way it is...
BTW. I think this is probably the most epic thread this forum has seen since "Remove Prophets" with me and Nya's DPS/DPS Parser circular argument :P (Nya's prolly still feeling a bit of frustration from that, I think I am to!) ....
A few people really embarassed themselves. Confidently, I can say it was not me).
There are some... interesting minds... on these forums.
Exactly. Look at it this way. The basic idea of the warcryer class (and also to a certain extent the OL class) is to buff a LOT of people FAST. No matter how many people (full party or only the WC himself), the buffs always cost the same. It is by design that the WC can do the buffs once, maybe twice with toggle+clarity, but then he is out of mp and has to regen. Not being able to rebuff several times per buff round when somebody gets cancelled or dies and loses buffs is the balancing for being able to buff a whole party very fast (a prophet can rebuff somebody who gets cancelled, maybe even several times per buff round and STILL can buff the rest of the party when their buffs fade). Also, soul cry / soul guard are not supposed to be on all the time, because then the wc/ol would not be able to rebuff - he would not regen any mp at all.
With this new mp vr, all of this is no longer true. The wc/old does not have any disadvantage anymore compared to a prophet when it comes to REbuffing people. Instead, he is even BETTER at rebuffing people, because he is always at full mp. And the toggles can be on all the time, because the normal mp regen has become completely irrelevant for an orc mystic. Who cares about actually LOSING 5 mp or so per tick instead of regenning mp, when you can leech 100+ mp with each swing of the weapon.
The mp vr is so heavily overpowered that it is ridiculous. If you guys cannot see that, I don't know what else to say.
Well just dont say anything anymore, because you just explained why buffers are boxed and cant solo.
This change benefits the "life" players, making their class more solo friendly and gives them something to do between buffrounds.
It's balanced so that a Live Prophet and a Live Overlord/War Cryer are balanced, not so that a Live War Cryer and a Boxed War Cryer are balanced.
You have a terrible misunderstanding.
That's why they call it class balance. Classes are balanced against each other, not against themselves.
You're starting to make me emo.
I'm a fairly hardcore player and I have played other games at the upper eschelon of end-game. This is the first time that I've seen a player who claims to have a clue insinuate that the Developers balance classes with boxed equivalents...
While it may not be a deciding factor in PvP, getting to higher levels is. The WC/OL combo with manaVR and the upgrades to their buffs, renders the PP/SE combo obselete and unwanted. No will take a PP/SE combo in their party when a CoVcryer is available. Why take 2 buffers when you can take just 1 and have room for another DD? This alone will make it very diffecult for PP/SE to get to those higher levels, and once they do get there, they still find that people want the WC instead of them.
Trensharo is correct, this skill is out of balance with the game and should be adjusted, or PP/SE need upgrades so they can keep up.
I will remember to complain the next time archers, daggers or nukers gets a new strong skill and call them overpowered....not that they already are...
Haven't you been complaining, at least since you started playing the game?
Haven't you been complaining, at least since you started playing the game?
tell me something that the dwarfs and not every other fighter class has gotten that is good (apart from the WS buffs that no one seems to care about anyways).
maybe you now see why I have been complaining about the dwarfs....
It's not whether you're complaining, or not. It's how you present the complaint, and how receptive people are of said complaint.
I read a thread about Dwarves in the thread recently and haven't chimed in on it, because I don't see a reason not to give them some sort of boosts.
If I see someone make an imba [or ******ed] suggestion (which I affectionately refer to as "crap"), then I will not hesitate to make a statement. I don't like crap, but really, who does? This MP VR is nice an all... but it's crap all the same.
All games get easier as they age. The developers put in short cuts to allow newer players to advance as a faster rate due to the "barrier to entry" for raiding or PvPing being so high. There are better, and more sane, ways to do it, however.
No one cares about the WS buffs because all the other buffs + Songs/Dances are good enough. The WS buffs are strong, but the came late. People are not accustomed to their benefits, or even asking for them, yet. The Archer buff is especially strong (probably the strongest one).
The buff system in this game is another discussion alltogether. Usually when one class gets a buff, it indirectly buffs another class factorably.
Nukers were supposed to be glass cannons, but since Archers were doing rediculous damage [and in need of a nerf] nukers got buffed [indirectly] factorably by Song of Wind Storm, Chant of Protection, and now these -ChanceToGetCrit buffs.
Look what happened to Banes and Blocks when they added Combo Buffs. Talk about testing, eh?
Necros also got nerfed by game mechanics. I made a thread on that, which you likely already read.
When you have a lot of crap in your game, revamps are usually a better solution than adding new buffs - when the game is already rediculously buff-dependent, IMO.
If you notice from update to update, Koreans make changes to benefit one class while nerfing other, and its always the same story, its not even a mistake, but something done purporsely.
Koreans devs are in love with Kamaels, trust me in that, what we see right now is nothing with what will come. And at some point they were with Orcs, more than Elves, Dark Elves, Humans and let alone Dwarfs.
If I didnt know better about NCSoft, I will be jumping the bagon and saying "THIS IS TOO MUCH, PLEASE BALANCE CLASSES". But I know they will nerf this when enough people are 76+ with either a sub or main WC, then another class which will not be PP for sure will be bless with a magical skill that will make them wanted.
Enjoy it while it last. No need to complain about it, since this new skill is working as design. Whatever that design is just to increase the number of WC/OL in server at the moment or just because the devs love too much Orcs, whatever the reason they obviously saw the benefit of this skill, since they created it and didnt see any problem with it.
Its obviously that Koreans agreed that this new skill didnt have any impact overall, and than since this is a Korean game and this changes were tested by koreans who are the real testers, then this new change reflect how they feel in Korea regarding Orc mages. They probably so hardcore that they laught about this skill, since it makes not difference for them.
It makes your post so infuriating to read, since you write in a way that would lead one to believe you read Korean and play on their servers, while pretty much saying "I have no clue what I'm talking about" at the same time.
And like I said, Koreans tested Banes and Blocks on Combo Buffs? If they were the real testers, how did this glaring "bug" make it to the NA/EU live servers (they have their PTS/launch before ours)?
It's not whether you're complaining, or not. It's how you present the complaint, and how receptive people are of said complaint.
I read a thread about Dwarves in the thread recently and haven't chimed in on it, because I don't see a reason not to give them some sort of boosts.
If I see someone make an imba [or ******ed] suggestion (which I affectionately refer to as "crap"), then I will not hesitate to make a statement. I don't like crap, but really, who does? This MP VR is nice an all... but it's crap all the same.
All games get easier as they age. The developers put in short cuts to allow newer players to advance as a faster rate due to the "barrier to entry" for raiding or PvPing being so high. There are better, and more sane, ways to do it, however.
No one cares about the WS buffs because all the other buffs + Songs/Dances are good enough. The WS buffs are strong, but the came late. People are not accustomed to their benefits, or even asking for them, yet. The Archer buff is especially strong (probably the strongest one).
The buff system in this game is another discussion alltogether. Usually when one class gets a buff, it indirectly buffs another class factorably.
Nukers were supposed to be glass cannons, but since Archers were doing rediculous damage [and in need of a nerf] nukers got buffed [indirectly] factorably by Song of Wind Storm, Chant of Protection, and now these -ChanceToGetCrit buffs.
Look what happened to Banes and Blocks when they added Combo Buffs. Talk about testing, eh?
Necros also got nerfed by game mechanics. I made a thread on that, which you likely already read.
When you have a lot of crap in your game, revamps are usually a better solution than adding new buffs - when the game is already rediculously buff-dependent, IMO.
+1
Trensharo is absolutly correct about all this.
People that can`t accept their class is very unballanced (with skills that are too strong) simply help to kill the game.
At this pace someday we only need to have a wc and a ol as a buffer/nuker/healer/tank/melee dd, and we only see groups of wcs and ols roaming through the game!:D
In this case (too powerful skills) i dont ask for a similar thing for pp, bishop, se or ee; because that would make the game too much easy that even a monkey, spamming skills, could play!
This skill need, simply, to be deleted or greatly reduced.
Listen by now you should understand how things work in L2,
We could debate about this until the end of times, still will not make any difference, which seems you fail to understand, what we get from Korean is what they want to give us, all the changes related to L2 never have been because we complain or request to nerf classes, if Koreans believe things are ok, even if they are not, nothing will be changed and thats what you cant understand. They will not focus time and effort to make custom changes in classes for US/EU base, just because a bunch of people think it should be done, thats not how it works and it will never be.
You feel so righteous about pointing out a skill that benefits you and feel its overpower. Good now what? Makes not difference even if you are right, while some of us disagree, and what obviously people who matters when it comes to balancing classes in Korea doesnt believe is a problem.
Now you're just trolling (and I'm actually using the word correctly).
I am not ;), you QQ about this =D.
Enjoy this new skill as its design,
If you have a problem with a skill and want to make a difference, use the support ticket system and request them to follow up, meanwhile enjoy it as simple as that sounds.
Trensharo is absolutly correct about all this.
People that can`t accept their class is very unballanced (with skills that are too strong) simply help to kill the game.
At this pace someday we only need to have a wc and a ol as a buffer/nuker/healer/tank/melee dd, and we only see groups of wcs and ols roaming through the game!:D
In this case (too powerful skills) i dont ask for a similar thing for pp, bishop, se or ee; because that would make the game too much easy that even a monkey, spamming skills, could play!
This skill need, simply, to be deleted or greatly reduced.
if those skills are overpowered then the archers and nukers needs to be nerfed by alot then...not to mention the TSS from the gladi, frenzy/zealot/guts/rage of the destroyer and etc etc etc.
oh and what skills on the OL/WC do you find overpowered?
war cry?
soul guard (OL)? (I must admit that I got supriced that a lvl 74 OL can have almost 2k pdef with it on)
As for Steal divinity - it is not cancel. Do you have any idea what steal divinity does when you use it during CS on almost any enemy ?
you got debuffed too !! (or you can be pr0 and run in siege zone with 3 potions - haste, ww, acu)
You steal songs/dances that most you have already on and some garbage for shield from tanks(you cant even wear shield ...), some archer nonsesne (same for nukers with seeds) and if enemy didnt have too many S/D you may be lucky enought to strip them from final buff. After using skill second time you will 100% pop some of your own buffs (soul hound needs more buffs than nuker/fighter)
Going to agree with the soulhound opinion that it will definitely overbuff you if you don't take the time to click off the buffs you don't want after you steal them. Going to also stick to my guns that it shouldn't be completely unresistable with a 30 level gap too. I certainly don't want the skill rendered useless, like disarm it's a powerful kamael ability that needs to still work. Should it really work 100% of the time with a 30 level gap? Really? Removing buffs is THE most debilitating thing in this game short of the old 2 minute anchor we all knew and loved shortly after BSPS were introduced.
MP vr requires not only to be hitting a mob, but also to be hitting that mob for a decent chunk of damage or the mp returns aren't anything to write home about. The power of the mp vr comes with hex, stigma, judgement and tribunal stacked on the target mob, but traditionally you don't end up with a whole lot of hits when things are debuffed like that before the mob keels over. Again, I'm not stating that the skill isn't powerful in it's own way, it definitely is. I stand by the comment that it will be very difficult to exploit this feature to dominate in a pvp environment.
As to the pvp comment. I've been at war with half the server over the years until just recently, joining my RL brother and friend's clan.
Kookaburra comment: Yes, you can constantly xp with little to no downtime with a same-level kook on a spellhowler or necro. Get one and try it, make sure to use body to mind when it pops in conjunction. Absolutely no way to run that kook out of mp until you need to go to the washroom unless you don't know one of 2 game mechanics: 1: You have to hunt where you can 3 shot or less. 2: You have to know how to use your chicken, when to bring him out and when to leave him in your inventory.
Transfer pain comment: For a necro, no you really can't keep from losing your mp if you spam death spike all the time without a kookaburra with xfer pain on. That said, on my phantom summoner I never shut xfer pain off. Ever. It's absolutely hacked powerful on a true summoner class. Even though that skill completely unbalanced the olympiad (like many other combinations of skills for the "enforcer" classes), I STILL wouldn't ever call for a nerf because it doesn't break the game or economy on a mass scale all by itself. It's the combination of the strength of the summoner's other skills in conjunction that make the class so OP in Oly.
Nerfs should only come about if an ability is unbalancing the important aspects of the game, or allows exploitation for incredible monetary gain in a short period of time. Castles changing hands due to mass pvp becoming horribly broken. Raid bosses going from one or two parties to 2 people. (see: s weapon penalties this patch for lowbie raid bosses, blockade nerf), Breaking the economy, or ruining the olympiad. And while things aren't perfect (not even close) ol mp drain requires an NPC to be hit fully buffed, which means sieges, olympiad, boss pvp are not going to be affected much if at all. Ganking open pvp parties may be affected slightly, but not much if you consider that before orc mages didn't use their mana (they couldn't and maintain buffs every 20 and still be ready to defend a gank) for much at all unless they were brought into the group with another buffer. 2 or 3 buffers in a party didn't roll so well, hence a lot of doomcryers not being able to use any skill but buffs in pve, and overlords staying LFG.
Tren brings up a few good points, (especially the part about boxed vs live, kudos) but none of them are worthy of nerfing something that has zero effect on anything but an orc mage's xp bar, and his/her groupmates. I didn't want necros nerfed back when they were killing entire groups of people by themselves with clan hall buffs. I didn't want spellsingers aura flare nerfed back in the day either (they were still beatable if you played your OL correctly in 1 vs 1, let alone mass pvp), and though I was bitterly upset about the steal essence, blockade, and Flames nerfs to OLs over the chronicles, I also could see where ALL of them were due to PVP imbalances or Raid boss soloing or both. Those skills needed to be adjusted because they trivialized or completely broke PVP and PVE encounters.
The only pve encounter that 'breaks' with this skill is that we have 2 more support classes that can now effectively get xp on their own. Inquisitor was brought into game for this very reason: to allow support classes to level up in a pure support class group. Why? "Fun" DD classes getting 4 accounts to powerlevel themselves solo, do raid bosses by themselves, do castle dungeons by themselves, fortesses. Meanwhile the real live support gets parties for PVP, and is left to move the bar by themselves because they take xp from the "real" classes :P
The only change I could see to the mp vr is giving it a static 20 mp a swing no matter what the damage. I think NC built it the way it is to force orc mages to deal their full damage potential in the group, to force them to blow millions in S shots and spirit ore in groups to be at maximum potential. In essence it's a money sink that will help deflate the afkleveling-earned adena flooded in the market. The side effect is it allows your support clanmates to be able to get into their 80s.
Side note: Shillen saints are going to be in every single melee group if anyone can help it. Stigma of Shillen is like adding 25% more damage to your melee group on average (it takes a few seconds to get stigma on everything, sometimes you don't get it on till mob is at 3/4 or less hp). POWind is probably the best grinding prophecy out there for non boss jewel wearers in terms of survivability. I wouldn't go anywhere without my Kiralynn, unless I had a clannie SS lfg =)
Prophets just keep getting stuck out in the cold. Their years of olympiad dominance gave ncsoft devs the willies about adding anything else powerful to the class. They need to realize those days are over, and do SOMETHING to make them more desireable than their wonderful albeit far too late Counter Critical. I think we all could suggest a number of adjustments to the class, but really they do need something to keep up with the Joneses.
MP vr requires not only to be hitting a mob, but also to be hitting that mob for a decent chunk of damage or the mp returns aren't anything to write home about. The power of the mp vr comes with hex, stigma, judgement and tribunal stacked on the target mob, but traditionally you don't end up with a whole lot of hits when things are debuffed like that before the mob keels over. Again, I'm not stating that the skill isn't powerful in it's own way, it definitely is. I stand by the comment that it will be very difficult to exploit this feature to dominate in a pvp environment.
Something doesn't have to be overpowered in PvP to be Overpowered - I'm still wondering why that even matters. Mana Burn was overpowered in PvP (and not PvE), yet it was nerfed. There are other examples, some that I have mentioned in this thread. That is a very one-sided and backwards way of looking at things. Some people are still wondering if something is overpowered only when it doesn't benefit your class.
The MP VR is overpowered. I don't know what you mean about Hex, Stigma, and all this other **** that really isn't a factor.
On MOBs your level, as I demonstrated, you should be doing enough damage to grab 40-50 MP a hit on the MOB. That's with Soul Cry and Soul Guard Running. I had 580'ish attack speed in that video. that's almost 1.2 hits a second. In a high level group with BD and Prophecy, you attack Speed will likely be in the 700+ range and your P.Atk will be higher (you'll prolly use a melee weapon with higher crit rate, also, to melee the MOBs). It is trivial to keep you MP full.
I've been testing this since I started the thread. I just finished testing with dagger. You don't even need to use skills (and they don't give MP Back). It's the same in Party. I did some catacomb groups to camp the OL and WC combo buff books.
You don't need a lot of hits. Soul Cry and Soul Guard can be toggled and you can grab 100-400 MP off every mob (depending on crits and number of hits). It will only take like 10 MOBs to fill your mana back up. Does it take you XP groups 20 minutes to kill 10 MOBs?
I mean, seriously...
The Necro/Prophet/Kamael comments didn't have a place here. People were intentionally derail the thread because they didn't want to discuss the topic.
The kook doesn't matter. It doesn't give needed buffs and I do not soe every 20 minutes to get rebuffed in a CH or fortress. I don't even SOE every hour to get newbie buffs from Adventure Guide on Subs. You will level slow with a Kook than with real buffers and Rechargers due to many factors. It's not viable for me. Maybe in B Grade, but definitely not now. They offer no versatility, and more **** to worry about.
You have to keep the Kook in a reasonable distance [in level] to you. You can't level even 75% of the time with the Kook packed away or it will fall behind and start getting recharge penalty at the levels when the recharges matter most (i.e. when you need more than 3 MOB kills for 0.01% gain).
MP is hardly a problem, especially this update with the 1 minute herb drops on the ground. If you get a mana herb and you're full mana you can kill MOBs until you need it and run to get it, now. It's the lack of buffs that are not optional [when you are trying to maximize your XP efficiency] that is the problem. You uptime is fine with a Kook, but the lack of buffs will affect your leveling speed negatively.
It's not even viable to use a Kook in some areas. It restricts you to the easiest leveling areas, which are usually the ones with out-of-whack XP progression.
The kook doesn't matter. It doesn't give needed buffs and I do not soe every 20 minutes to get rebuffed in a CH or fortress. I don't even SOE every hour to get newbie buffs from Adventure Guide on Subs. You will level slow with a Kook than with real buffers and Rechargers due to many factors. It's not viable for me. Maybe in B Grade, but definitely not now. They offer no versatility, and more **** to worry about.
You have to keep the Kook in a reasonable distance [in level] to you. You can't level even 75% of the time with the Kook packed away or it will fall behind and start getting recharge penalty at the levels when the recharges matter most (i.e. when you need more than 3 MOB kills for 0.01% gain).
Can you please tell me one class that can solo without support?
Exept OL/WC/EE/Bishop/PP/Summoners/SE that all can solo very good on theyr own at least to lvl 75-76.
Now that we talking about pets ;):
My baby pet is more "overpower" than this new skill that WC/OL got.
I have 0% downtime and the exp it takes is minimal because of the level difference, you only need to know how to play it and at what level to keep your pet so it doesnt hurt your exp rate, WC/OL doing considerable melee dmg? please get real, they are buffers, and doing solo even with infinite mana if you know how to play a WC/OL is inneficient... I do considerable damage with OE weapon, I get buffs from my pet, and it heals me from time to time, thats kind of broken, but until Korean people decides is broken and needs to be fix I shall and any smart people should enjoy it... what else I could have ask for lol. And no I dont need to hide my pet, my damage itself aggros the mobs so much that they dont even bother to look at my tiny little friend hahhaha.
There are so many things in this game that could be call Overpower but exist since the game itself start, so no point to complain about it, other than to adapt to changes and live with it.
All I heard is "NERF THIS NERF THAT. OMG I am so Overpower thats NOT RIGHT, UNFAIR!!..." sigh lol :D.
"OH NOES KAMAEL!!! NERF THEM PLEASE TOO..." :eek:
What we have is what Koreans believe is balanced, nothing more nothing less.
I agree and they won't stop complaining no matter what the devs do so how about we start a post that lists everything in game that needs to be NERFED and keep it on one thread? LOL Then we won't have anyone playing this game at all becuase we'll get it so NERFED noone will play it but the BOTS.
Now that we talking about pets ;):
My baby pet is more "overpower" than this new skill that WC/OL got.
I have 0% downtime and the exp it takes is minimal because of the level difference, you only need to know how to play it and at what level to keep your pet so it doesnt hurt your exp rate, WC/OL doing considerable melee dmg? please get real, they are buffers, and doing solo even with infinite mana if you know how to play a WC/OL is inneficient... I do considerable damage with OE weapon, I get buffs from my pet, and it heals me from time to time, thats kind of broken, but until Korean people decides is broken and needs to be fix I shall and any smart people should enjoy it... what else I could have ask for lol. And no I dont need to hide my pet, my damage itself aggros the mobs so much that they dont even bother to look at my tiny little friend hahhaha.
There are so many things in this game that could be call Overpower but exist since the game itself start, so no point to complain about it, other than to adapt to changes and live with it.
Please quote me where I say they do considerable Melee damage.
I'm sure you'll find the quote where I said you can get back 40-50 MP a hit easily (in S Grade wiht a 150 fire weapon (mace or even melee blunt), prolly more than that in most XP zones).
Anything else you say, frankly doesn't matter at this point. I'm really over the discussion. Just checking the thread to respond to anyone who has anything reasonable to discuss about it.
I have leveled pets (Wolf, Kooka, and Cougar, and have more babies that I'm gonna level on my subs (Wolf and Kooka) ). I don't need a lesson in using them.
How is it inefficient to have infinite mana? This makes absolutley no sense.
Man. I'm seriously going to have to stop responding to you posts.
What level is you OL or WC? Lol. You don't need a pet to XP efficiently on them. Did you read the thread at all?
I can almost spam skills and still not have any MP Problems, with BOTH toggles running....
I agree and they won't stop complaining no matter what the devs do so how about we start a post that lists everything in game that needs to be NERFED and keep it on one thread? LOL Then we won't have anyone playing this game at all becuase we'll get it so NERFED noone will play it but the BOTS.
You make absolutely no sense.
Seems like people have changed the definition of a nerf too.
Please quote me where I say they do considerable Melee damage.
I'm sure you'll find the quote where I said you can get back 40-50 MP a hit easily (in S Grade wiht a 150 fire weapon (mace or even melee blunt), prolly more than that in most XP zones).
Anything else you say, frankly doesn't matter at this point. I'm really over the discussion. Just checking the thread to respond to anyone who has anything reasonable to discuss about it.
I have leveled pets (Wolf, Kooka, and Cougar, and have more babies that I'm gonna level on my subs (Wolf and Kooka) ). I don't need a lesson in using them.
You obviously need a lesson how to use them :).
You fail to see the fact that the game its very balanced, and this new skill is good news to Orc mages.
Like I say Stop QQ about this, calling people dumb because they disagree with you and enjoy this.
"Can you please tell me one class that can solo without support, without listing a class that can solo without support?"
Yep i always solo without support on every class i play so therefore i just listed a class without listing a class. Unless i have clan members on becuase they don't cry at the top of thier lungs "NERF THE HELL OUTTA THIS GAME DEVELOPERS PLEASE" if they did i'd fire my clan mates and get new ones , ones with brians that can see a good thing as a good thing and have an imagination on how to make it better instead of turning it to crap which is essentially what you want by calling for nerfs.
Calling for nerfs says you want a crappy game end of story no matter how you try and sugar coat it and don't even try and argue that fact. If i'm wrong then proove it by actually giving some suggestions on the other classes that will make them better while leaving this and every other great thing in game alone.
I know you can't think of actual improvements to this game while leaving things alone becuase all we hear is "NERF" but feel free to try and proove me wrong becuase i'd love to hear the suggestions on how to get the game to keep going forward instead of backwards which is essentially what nerfing does . It makes the game go backwards instead of forward.
Calling for things to be balanced means you want a better game. You're obviously not the brightest apple in the bunch. Simple concept, yet you're still arguing about it.
I have made threads about improvements. People just troll them.
"Can you please tell me one class that can solo without support, without listing a class that can solo without support?"
Without knowing it you answered my question...no class can solo without support exept the support classes.
So stop complaining about how many support classes you need to box because you are to lazy to get friends that play those classes to help you to grind.
What this thread is about isn't the MP returned on hits. It's about you complaining that you can't solo your necro without support like the support classes can.
Calling for things to be balanced means you want a better game. You're obviously not the brightest apple in the bunch. Simple concept, yet you're still arguing about it.
I have made threads about improvements. People just troll them.
Read the forums, use search.
Your the one calling for a nerf which ruins the game and your as dumb as a box of rocks for not seeing that you can get your game balance with bringing these other races up to the same lvl as where the Orc Mages are now without calling for a brain dead nerf. Adding more to the other races will balance things out and keep the game headed forward just as well as your wanting to screw up a good thing just so you can get a balance by weaking a class.
Since your not smart enough to understand that logic in english let's try this.
If you have a box of Green Apples and a box of Oranges/banannas on a scale and you want to balance it out but the green apples(orc mages for example )weigh more (or from what the nerf herders claim are Over powered ) than what the oranges/banannas weigh (all the rest of the races) your idea is to take away from the apples to balance things which is what i'm refering to as nerfing and a bad idea for the game . Non nerf herders agree that since the oranges/bananna's are less than the apples , we should add to them to balance things out. New mp vr buffs for example would be a form of logic to balance things without taking away and strengthing other areas as well .Now can you comprehend that logic and stop crying becuase we are running outta kleenex to give you.
If you were the brightest apple of the bunch there wouldn't be a need for that kind of explanation and yes we know your listening to Whitney Houston's song "I get so emotional" we can tell by your posts and no you can not cry on my shoulder. So stop trying.
Without knowing it you answered my question...no class can solo without support exept the support classes.
So stop complaining about how many support classes you need to box because you are to lazy to get friends that play those classes to help you to grind.
What this thread is about isn't the MP returned on hits. It's about you complaining that you can't solo your necro without support like the support classes can.
Lol.
Seriously?
Every class you listed was a Support class, too.?
The only class that you listed that can solo exceptionally well without boxed support are Summoners, TBH.
Inquisitor has the same problems Nukers have, just that they each get a buff or two that is useful to nukers.
Inquisitors can use a Kook just like a Nuker, and get Recharges for almost half of what a Nuker gets. Clarity/WM don't do all that much for EEs when they have Elf M.Atk without an INT Tatoo. Bishops with Acu2/Zerk1 aren't that great. They are rechargeable, but without a boxed recharger they will suffer the same issues that Nukers suffer. Inquisitor is crippled by game mechanics. A self-buffed EE/Bishop Inquisitor isn't that much better than a Nuker with Grocery Store Pots. In the case of an EE, it may be even worse than a Nuker, especially those with Death Spike nuking MOBs that aren't dark resist (I'm referring to the damage output).
EEs and Bishops can Rift. That is why I'd say they solo very well. The XP they get from those MOBs makes up for the time they use to regen MP (usually in a CH or fort)
SE's cannot. They get Empower and WM, but their MP is as limited as that of a Nuker. They may be able to solo in a psuedo DD fashion with Stigma now, but I haven't checked (yet). SE's are on the fence.
Prophets cannot solo well, even with every buff they have. They do not have the DPS to kill MOBs at a reasonable pace, and their MP Management will fail them without a boxed recharger. They have no VR and they are reliant on Battle Heals.
So.......
WC and OL are different from other Support Classes. First, no other support classes (or Supports from other races) have Toggles to increase their P.Atk - on top of buffs - to the level that WC and OL can.
Second, OL has a P.Def Toggle that almost doubles their P.Def in Robes. 1.4k P.Def in Robes (with Zerk 2, mind you) is strong.
Third, Orcs have Racially better battle statistics than most other Support Classes (from other races).
Fourth, the Orc Buffers are more diversified in their buff setups (can use grocery store haste potions on OL, and VR drops as an herb and lasts 5 minutes).
Fifth, WC and OL are the only Support Classes in the game that have suitable Magic Damage (Venum + Flame + Drain, Seal of Flame + Seal of Poison + Drain).
Sixth, WC and OL have the best CC in the game when MOBs aren't high resist to Sleep. OL can Root as Seal. I believe both have Single-Target Fear.
Seventh, OLs have some of the best debuffs in game.
8th, OLs and WCs can Chain Stun MOBs, and Burning Chop is 19 MP Cost for a 65 HP/Sec DoT with Damage up front - yes, it matters.
Ninth, OL and WC have an MP VR that allows them to run their toggles 100% of the time.
Tenth, this allows a WC and OL to utilize everything they have, with basically no limitations.
Your the one calling for a nerf which ruins the game and your as dumb as a box of rocks for not seeing that you can get your game balance with bringing these other races up to the same lvl as where the Orc Mages are now without calling for a brain dead nerf. Adding more to the other races will balance things out and keep the game headed forward just as well as your wanting to screw up a good thing just so you can get a balance by weaking a class.
Since your not smart enough to understand that logic in english let's try this.
If you have a box of Green Apples and a box of Oranges/banannas on a scale and you want to balance it out but the green apples(orc mages for example )weigh more (or from what the nerf herders claim are Over powered ) than what the oranges/banannas weigh (all the rest of the races) your idea is to take away from the apples to balance things which is what i'm refering to as nerfing and a bad idea for the game . Non nerf herders agree that since the oranges/bananna's are less than the apples , we should add to them to balance things out. New mp vr buffs for example would be a form of logic to balance things without taking away and strengthing other areas as well .Now can you comprehend that logic and stop crying becuase we are running outta kleenex to give you.
If you were the brightest apple of the bunch there wouldn't be a need for that kind of explanation and yes we know your listening to Whitney Houston's song "I get so emotional" we can tell by your posts and no you can not cry on my shoulder. So stop trying.
I didn't read this, but you still sound pretty dumb in the opening statement. I'll leave this thread and let it die now :P
It does sound pretty dumb... Cause most reasonable people on this forum (the ones that aren't afraid to get their class balanced) know what this does, and know that it is imba....
Your the one calling for a nerf which ruins the game and your as dumb as a box of rocks for not seeing that you can get your game balance with bringing these other races up to the same lvl as where the Orc Mages are now without calling for a brain dead nerf.
Balancing a class is not nerfing. I'm still wondering when this term got redefined.
It's on page ten. everyone is just repeating themselves. So there is nothing further to discuss, TBH.
I made a fraps that I will send to the developers. I know it probably won't get fixed, but people who care about playing a game where things are balanced will not refuse to support this.
I didn't read this, but you still sound pretty dumb in the opening statement. I'll leave this thread and let it die now :P
LOL You obviousely read it and are agreeing to shut up cuz it makes since so thanks.Have a great day Tren you saved me some kleenexes becuase i'm getting "emo" watching OL/WC taking out 9 man parties in game with this mp vr thing it's the "****NET" and it's 1 on 9 totally gnarly dude like totally.
quoted"EEs and Bishops can Rift. That is why I'd say they solo very well." end quote
That prooves your not thinking right becuase you can't get into rift solo. I'll assume that your outta coffee. and just got all emotional and typed that statement wrong.
No, Im not agreeing with anything. I seriously didn't read past the first statement.
I'm leaving the thread, because it's turning into a circular argument.
There is nothing left to discuss. Everyone is just repeating themselves.
I know the skill is not balanced, and I know people who have WC/OL will not like being told the skill is not balanced.
Having pages upon pages of these people argue with me doesn't suprise me. I think most of the people with a clue who have posted in this thread know what the deal is.
I'm just arguing with scrubs now, and people who have a warped sense of class balance.
It's worthless, and you're still being incredibly ******ed and failing to realize that I have never said this was imba in PvP. Pretty sad, but I can't say I don't blame you. Grasping for straws, and all :P Gotta use any tactic you can to attempt to "make sense".
You need to learn the difference between a nerf and a fix. This is obviously broken, and I doubt you really believe it's balanced. There's a 99% chance you are just arguing about it, because you don't want to get "nerfed" (seeing as how you don't actually know what a nerf is).
Just because something is incredibly good, and gets fixed; doesn't make it a nerf, Lol. You'll learn, one day. Well, maybe not...
If you want to believe I read that shiit, though, have at it.
I totally agree that it is overpowered. I mean 40-50 mana per hit and 100+ for crit? That is ridiculous. I just started a OL after being gone from the game for 2 years and didnt even know about this vr for mp until a few days ago. I was actually kinda sad as that is making the class more overpopulated. Regardless, It needs to be cust at a minimum 50% and more like 75%-80% would be best.
Tren, Eamonn is a 66 OL that has been playing since forever. He thinks he finally hit the jackpot and he doesnt want to be "nerfed". That is why he fails to realiz this isnt balanced at all.
To Eamonn: here are a bunch of periods, use them in your posts, so you dont come off as a ranting lunatic : .................................................. .............................
That prooves your not thinking right becuase you can't get into rift solo.
sure you can ... party a dorf in giran and go in, get all the exp for yourself
PS rofling at the people saying SE = dead ... SE pretty much doubles your exp if you 're melee. And kills endgame bosses in under 2mins (talking about tezza). So yeah, dead class ... Why are all the clueless people posting?
@ Eamonn: See, This is why I call you guys ******s.
That prooves your not thinking right becuase you can't get into rift solo. I'll assume that your outta coffee. and just got all emotional and typed that statement wrong.
"I fail to think correctly, but I will still tell you how you fail to think corectly."
Playing the semantics game. Circular Arguments. Telling someone they're incorrect without offering any experience or proof to show how they are incorrect. Things like that. It's just rigged for failure.
Lol. Gratz on level 66...
@ Atropy: That's not the way Dead Classes are viewed. Dead Classes are seldom-played classes. Any Dead Class Boxed Buffer can be logged in and boxed at Frint and in any Party to spam Stigma. I mean, you can even box it OOP in any area that doesn't require SM to be up constantly.
Dead Classes are Seldom Played Classes - Seldom Played as Mains, more specifically. Prophets and SE are dead classes to me. There are probably more Prophets and SEs than any other class in the game, but 99% of Prophets and 90% of SEs are boxed buffers. You don't need to have a Live SE to spam Stigma...
When a class is dead, the Developers usually boost that class to attract more players to it. In EverQuest, the Developers used to have XP bonuses on some classes (like Enchanters) and even some Races to attract more classes. In Lineage II, they do things like giving SE's Inquisitor, Bless the Blood, and Stigma of Shillien. Maybe in the future the class wil liven up a bit, but at the moment it's quite dead.
Overlords were never a dead class. The restrictions placed on the class were intentionally placed to keep the population of OL mains down. That is also why they cannot be subbed. There was a time when stacking OLs in Clans/Alliances were extremely powerful - before NCSoft let the Burst DPS in this game get out of whack.
The only class that you listed that can solo exceptionally well without boxed support are Summoners, TBH.
Inquisitor has the same problems Nukers have, just that they each get a buff or two that is useful to nukers.
Inquisitors can use a Kook just like a Nuker, and get Recharges for almost half of what a Nuker gets. Clarity/WM don't do all that much for EEs when they have Elf M.Atk without an INT Tatoo. Bishops with Acu2/Zerk1 aren't that great. They are rechargeable, but without a boxed recharger they will suffer the same issues that Nukers suffer. Inquisitor is crippled by game mechanics. A self-buffed EE/Bishop Inquisitor isn't that much better than a Nuker with Grocery Store Pots. In the case of an EE, it may be even worse than a Nuker, especially those with Death Spike nuking MOBs that aren't dark resist (I'm referring to the damage output).
EEs and Bishops can Rift. That is why I'd say they solo very well. The XP they get from those MOBs makes up for the time they use to regen MP (usually in a CH or fort)
SE's cannot. They get Empower and WM, but their MP is as limited as that of a Nuker. They may be able to solo in a psuedo DD fashion with Stigma now, but I haven't checked (yet). SE's are on the fence.
Prophets cannot solo well, even with every buff they have. They do not have the DPS to kill MOBs at a reasonable pace, and their MP Management will fail them without a boxed recharger. They have no VR and they are reliant on Battle Heals.
So.......
WC and OL are different from other Support Classes. First, no other support classes (or Supports from other races) have Toggles to increase their P.Atk - on top of buffs - to the level that WC and OL can.
Second, OL has a P.Def Toggle that almost doubles their P.Def in Robes. 1.4k P.Def in Robes (with Zerk 2, mind you) is strong.
Third, Orcs have Racially better battle statistics than most other Support Classes (from other races).
Fourth, the Orc Buffers are more diversified in their buff setups (can use grocery store haste potions on OL, and VR drops as an herb and lasts 5 minutes).
Fifth, WC and OL are the only Support Classes in the game that have suitable Magic Damage (Venum + Flame + Drain, Seal of Flame + Seal of Poison + Drain).
Sixth, WC and OL have the best CC in the game when MOBs aren't high resist to Sleep. OL can Root as Seal. I believe both have Single-Target Fear.
Seventh, OLs have some of the best debuffs in game.
8th, OLs and WCs can Chain Stun MOBs, and Burning Chop is 19 MP Cost for a 65 HP/Sec DoT with Damage up front - yes, it matters.
Ninth, OL and WC have an MP VR that allows them to run their toggles 100% of the time.
Tenth, this allows a WC and OL to utilize everything they have, with basically no limitations.
So no, I don't think it's balanced.
It puzzles me that someone can say that wcs and ols are balanced!
Trensharo proves that this classes are completly unbalanced, and yet some people think them as balanced!
What next? Give them the healing proficiency of a bishop? Or the melee dmg of a destroyer?:rolleyes:
When some class can use their skills non-stop without worries about mana management, that is absolutly unfair for every other classes.
Too much people here that not understand the meaning of balanced and unbalanced class...
Trensharo posted some days ago info about his OL 7x.
Now... a friend of mine just showed me that his 5x WC gets his full MP back by killing exactly TWO MOBS in EV, hitting them with common fists and newbie+personal buffs+soulcry ON all the time and spamming life drains/ flames/ dreaming spirit as much as possible (not that he needed these, he was just trying to burn MP).
He was getting back 20 mp per single swing of the fists or something crazy like that (i.e. +40 mp per soulshot).
Yes, I know that 5x is no level to speak of. It's just that buffers 20 levels higher than that would kill to be able to get back 20 mp per hit :mad:
Trensharo posted some days ago info about his OL 7x.
Now... a friend of mine just showed me that his 5x WC gets his full MP back by killing exactly TWO MOBS in EV, hitting them with common fists and newbie+personal buffs+soulcry ON all the time and spamming life drains/ flames/ dreaming spirit as much as possible (not that he needed these, he was just trying to burn MP).
He was getting back 20 mp per single swing of the fists or something crazy like that (i.e. +40 mp per soulshot).
Yes, I know that 5x is no level to speak of. It's just that buffers 20 levels higher than that would kill to be able to get back 20 mp per hit :mad:
Make a OL/WC and jump the bagon ;), enjoy the new feature as design heheheehe.
no more sitting on my hairy *** trying to regain mp...now i can join with the hunt in parties...keep party alive....thank you!:D
i'm clannies best friend again :)
Not sure what lvl is ur wc/ol. But I never needed to sit with my wc to regen mp o.O I could even have perma soul cry on, after they decreased the mp usage in the previous update. Nevertheless, I do needed to turn soul cry on and off if I'm doing some crowd control. Maintaining mp on a WC was already way easier than a PP, this is a huge (imbalance) boost for them imo.
Not sure what lvl is ur wc/ol. But I never needed to sit with my wc to regen mp o.O I could even have perma soul cry on, after they decreased the mp usage in the previous update. Nevertheless, I do needed to turn soul cry on and off if I'm doing some crowd control. Maintaining mp on a WC was already way easier than a PP, this is a huge (imbalance) boost for them imo.
********....full buff round..couple heals throwen in....mp almost out..
inblance my ***...nothing but good news for parties with wc with them now..
now ol is alittle different, this is where the inblance (if any) lies....ol in the right hands is a good pvp toon. ^^
********....full buff round..couple heals throwen in....mp almost out..
inblance my ***...nothing but good news for parties with wc with them now..
lol. Either the healer is not doing their job so the party needs heal from a WC, or the party don't have a healer... then they should get one. If a WC can substitute a healer's job, imbalance it is.
lol. Either the healer is not doing their job so the party needs heal from a WC, or the party don't have a healer... then they should get one. If a WC can substitute a healer's job, imbalance it is.
wc heals no where near as good as bis,se,ee..
so always roles needed for "healer" classes :)
i think the issue is pp vs wc...
like my pp..but also like the play-ability of wc nows :cool:
After spending time on my WC for a bit, I must say I love this change. This plus the addition of burning chop and fixed re-use means I can almost spam spells if I feel like it, chain Hammer Crush with Burning Chop (even is spamming Burning is inneficient) if I fee like it, and wear whatever armour I want.
like my pp..but also like the play-ability of wc nows :cool:
If a WC can spam skills without concern of mp, that's imbalance. Look at how some of the classes are overpowered in Kratei's cube that gives unlimited mp. In end game, yes there's always need for the real healers. But with this, it even made it worse for healers at lower levels; and NC should pat themselves in the back for giving healers Inquisitor (even I believe it's not the proper way to fix it).
Most of the time is about pp vs wc, nevertheless in this case no. It's about the 'passive' itself is overpowered.
I really can't believe an OL or WC complains about having something cool... That's just... umm... don't wanna use any bad words ^^ But you get the point... I'm a Soulhound and I'm so happy with my new features and I will never say sometihng like "I want my skill reuse to be slow again" just like a WC should NEVER say "I want to run out of MP all the time again"... Think for a second please and enjoy it ^^
The Game is full of idiots and it's no pleasing them that's why...... just enjoy it till some idiot gets it nerfed :mad:
korean developers neiher read nor care about what western customers have to say. so don't worry, if it gets nerfed, its not because of what people say here, but because what people say in korea.
imo game suggestions forum should be removed, its way beyound pointless.
After playing a couple weeks with my WC I have to agree that the mana VR is really op on PVE if they should reduce the mana returned to something like 10% of what they are getting right now in that way it will be more balance
After playing a couple weeks with my WC I have to agree that the mana VR is really op on PVE if they should reduce the mana returned to something like 10% of what they are getting right now in that way it will be more balance
Yup. As it is right now, they might as well make all WC/OL skills cost zero MP, there would not be much difference in PVE.
How many times have you said you weren't continuing in this thread. After glancing at the forums for a few mins , between this thread and you whining about someone asking questions in the player questions forum, makes me wonder if all the "experts" act like you.
korean developers neiher read nor care about what western customers have to say. so don't worry, if it gets nerfed, its not because of what people say here, but because what people say in korea.
imo game suggestions forum should be removed, its way beyound pointless.
As a proper company should, perhaps you think a good business listens to its demographic that is 1/10th or less of its main customer base?
The Game is full of idiots and it's no pleasing them that's why...... just enjoy it till some idiot gets it nerfed :mad:
That's on it's way ashley the idiots will complain about everything in this game good or bad that's why there was a lets nerf seal of blockade and now a lets take away mp vr thread . Will they ever shut the biugtwiuiut up and stop complaining about everything?
Yes your 1 of those idiots that seem's to need to complain when this has nothing at all to do with if the class is overpowered or not becuase 2 exact same OL's in totally different set ups will not do the exact same damage and be overpowered just becuase of this mp thing. But i'm enjoying everybody scared of my class though. It is quit entertaining seeing everyone cry about our ability to buff complete alliances that that was taken away. Then we were so overpowered with seal of blockade supposedly so that was weakened.
We can still buff and cp heal an entire clan folks so with or without this mp thing we are still gonna be "OVERPOWERED GODS" so fear us and keep posting this dragon dung bs becuase we love seeing you tremble in fear at our feet.:) lol that was pretty stupid i know but hey thanks for giving me an ego trip and i'm still waiting on the video of an all orc mage only epic raid party that shows just how overpowered we are now and they gotta be using chrono's or they ain't overpowered.
I cant believe how fast I can level up and how much fun I am having with my WC, THATS NOT RIGHT AT ALL... THIS IS L2 AFTER ALL... I AM STARTING TO FEEL I AM PLAYING WOW OR SOMETHING A LIKE IT!
yes your 1 of those idiots that seem's to need to complain when this has nothing at all to do with if the class is overpowered or not becuase 2 exact same ol's in totally different set ups will not do the exact same damage and be overpowered just becuase of this mp thing. But i'm enjoying everybody scared of my class though. It is quit entertaining seeing everyone cry about our ability to buff complete alliances that that was taken away. Then we were so overpowered with seal of blockade supposedly so that was weakened.
We can still buff and cp heal an entire clan folks so with or without this mp thing we are still gonna be "overpowered gods" so fear us and keep posting this dragon dung bs becuase we love seeing you tremble in fear at our feet.:) lol that was pretty stupid i know but hey thanks for giving me an ego trip and i'm still waiting on the video of an all orc mage only epic raid party that shows just how overpowered we are now and they gotta be using chrono's or they ain't overpowered.
rofl!
I have my OL up to level 50 and having quite a good time. The mana return is still ridiculous though, you can literally spam pve skills with no thought to mana in the least. I am in EV now and I can do drain life 2-3x per mob and still have full mp the entire time. Enjoying it while it lasts I suppose.
It seems like you get like 10% of the dmg done to mp and it's like you steal mp from the npc/mobs. Because I stopped getting (or less) mp from hitting the npc after about 30secs.
I don't think the mp return works in pvp as I tried to smack ppl in the arena with like 50% full mp, but I don't think it means that it deserves to be overpowered in pve either :/
There definately seems like there is something wrong with me being able to increase my pdef by 400 without using any mp as well as adding patk....basically i am in robes tanking like a dd and then just drain life whenever i need a bit of hp, its pretty ridiculous.
There definately seems like there is something wrong.....
No matter what you say some people will never understand this skill is totally broken, because "dwarfs suck too" or "archers are one-shotting enemies" or some similar totally irrelevant reason.
Then again, who said NC did any serious game planning and design with this game?
There definately seems like there is something wrong with me being able to increase my pdef by 400 without using any mp as well as adding patk....basically i am in robes tanking like a dd and then just drain life whenever i need a bit of hp, its pretty ridiculous.
I agree that the OL becomes a wery strong class with this new ability.
What NC should do is to lower the MP gained thru hitting by 50% (OL and WC) and reduce the pdef gained by soul cry by 30%.
That way they won't get the pdef of a tank in heavy armor and they won't be able to spam skills as often as they do now.
Can be op but now its funny to play. OL have a crap load of seal that can't be used cause after the buffs cause they went out of mp. How it is now, people at least have reasons to play OL again, it became funny to play OL, i wish they could tune PP like they did with the ol/wc.
Winter, Binding, Suspension, Silence are the only ones I use in PvE.
I drop Binding and add Slow for PvP, and sometimes use Chaos.
The DoTs are too weak, and the MP is better used on Single-Target/Clan CP/HP Heals instead.
And of course I'll try stunning anyone who gets close (which is why I keep the A blunt and some shots in my inventory).
If you're spamming Seals like crazy, then I guess you need to L2P the class, cause you're the issue - not it.
No matter what you say some people will never understand this skill is totally broken, because "dwarfs suck too" or "archers are one-shotting enemies" or some similar totally irrelevant reason.
Then again, who said NC did any serious game planning and design with this game?
+1
NCSOFT EPIC FAIL come on GM's you hear our plight take this wretched mp fast recharge away from us we can't handle it. We also need Seal of Blockade taken away , and Overlords need all the clan only skills taken away also so what the crap is taking so long GM's next Tuesday all the Overlords and War Cryers should be nothing more than the regular buffers that only get boxed becuase noone can stand to play them.
What is taking so long we all want to know that's why we have this thread at 12 pages now.
I can't stand playing my Overlord becuase of this mp returned on hits so NCSOFT get it taken out of game already sheesh how many more pages of complaints do we need.
NCSOFT EPIC FAIL come on GM's you hear our plight take this wretched mp fast recharge away from us we can't handle it. We also need Seal of Blockade taken away , and Overlords need all the clan only skills taken away also so what the crap is taking so long GM's next Tuesday all the Overlords and War Cryers should be nothing more than the regular buffers that only get boxed becuase noone can stand to play them.
What is taking so long we all want to know that's why we have this thread at 12 pages now.
I can't stand playing my Overlord becuase of this mp returned on hits so NCSOFT get it taken out of game already sheesh how many more pages of complaints do we need.
glad to see someone finally gets it
LMAO nope not mad at all just using same trick as everyone else who says we need stuff taken out of game cuz i want to help make my OL the most useless class in game so noone plays one anymore. Wasn't that the main point for this post? Not to give OL's or WC's anything good anymore at all?
LMAO nope not mad at all just using same trick as everyone else who says we need stuff taken out of game cuz i want to help make my OL the most useless class in game so noone plays one anymore. Wasn't that the main point for this post? Not to give OL's or WC's anything good anymore at all?
Well, this is kinda useless pvp since you cant get mana back from wapping people. It is a great grinding/pve skill though which isnt as relevant nowadays. PVP is all that really matters later on but still its just too much mana per hit.
LMAO nope not mad at all just using same trick as everyone else who says we need stuff taken out of game cuz i want to help make my OL the most useless class in game so noone plays one anymore. Wasn't that the main point for this post? Not to give OL's or WC's anything good anymore at all?
Actually no. OL is the most useful class in game, but in pvp/mass pvp/sieges. That's why they had to nerf Flame of Invincibility (from imba to not chainable to you loss the effect if you do anything besides running/standing/walking).
If you're playing an OL just coz u want to play one, then yes it's useless for you; but no for other ppl that plays the class for what it's made for.
It was never hard to level those things up, and it actually gets easier to level them up once you get to mid 7x (74+) because you can plug them into imba groups @ FoG/Darkness/Dino.
they got tons of love this update but this mana vr is just way too overpowered is the point of this which apparently u dont get it
Overpowered my butt since not everyone is geared the same way and on mine i'm still laughing my butt off that you all think this makes an OL overpowered. So keep posting this nonsense and trying to get me to think the same way you do becuase untill everyones using the exact same setups i'm still gonna say you don't know what your talking about.
I play it occasionaly still and i'm not a sit in one spot till i'm sleepy type player games gotten too boring for all that and i got whole map to lvl on so i'm in no rush like you all are to hit S100 wich is eventually on it's way. So keep talking smack about how overpowered these classes are you obviousely have a nice following but like i said till everyone is geared the exact same way it's all a misguided notion that this mp thing made them overpowered.
I dont think he even plays it anymore. How long can it take to lvl an overlord anyway?
Mine was 66 before I started lvling it again. Took me about a week to hit 73, and then I switched to another class.
Fixed
As long as i feel like it. Thanks for caring and no i don't use boxes and top gear over enchanted at every lvl and i don't play every day like alot of you.
Actually no. OL is the most useful class in game, but in pvp/mass pvp/sieges. That's why they had to nerf Flame of Invincibility (from imba to not chainable to you loss the effect if you do anything besides running/standing/walking).
If you're playing an OL just coz u want to play one, then yes it's useless for you; but no for other ppl that plays the class for what it's made for.
Learn American Sarcasmn before you start getting butthurt over a persons posts. I'm perfectly aware they are usefull and why care what i post learn to be like Tren and just ignore me or is that too hard. Call me a forum troll so i'm enjoying acting like one becuase all these useless threads that the GM's don't pay any attention to or send to NCSoft korea are just a waste of your guy's time typing this stuff up.
Learn American Sarcasmn before you start getting butthurt over a persons posts. I'm perfectly aware they are usefull and why care what i post learn to be like Tren and just ignore me or is that too hard. Call me a forum troll so i'm enjoying acting like one becuase all these useless threads that the GM's don't pay any attention to or send to NCSoft korea are just a waste of your guy's time typing this stuff up.