I have been playing MMOs for more than 7 yrs now, and in search for a new game after the failure of both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online I decided to go back in history and try out Lineage 2.
The game is around 5 yrs old and has a very nice selection of classes and subclasses which many new releases could learn a lot from, but besides that it is truely a sad story. I will not bother to complain further about the poor visual customization and the horrific click to move technology( no jumping, getting stuck on rocks, corners, etc - you don't feel like you are in real control of your character), the awful user interface, and other pretty obvious faults.
My main concern is that the game is just infested with bots, cheaters and has the worst gaming community I have ever encounted, and both the GMs and the community seem to have no will or power to change this.
The main reasons you should avoid this game is:
1) Because of all the bots the economy is so inflated that legit players will have to grind for years to come to get the money needed for top grade gear. Besides that, teaming is of very little value in this game, as most who know what they are doing team with themself dual or triple boxed with support classes.
2) If you for some reason live a very strange life and decided to try out this grind-fest you would be encounting bots all over, people who don't know the basic concepts of MMOs, so bad players that they wouldn't get invited to a pug in most good games.
3) If you for some reason even after discovering all this decided to still stick to the game you would be even more frustrated as you report the same bots for several days to the gms, you train them to death 50+ times, and they are still there.
4) Some of you might think that this could be fun since the game is based on an open PvP engine, but that is also so false. I can't believe you find any more that you willing to run around killing the bots and the other ******s you encounter in a systematic way, because their defense is simple: They don't attack back. If they don't attack back you turn red if you kill them, and you risk dropping you equipment ( both equiped and from inventory) on death. In many cases the bots have so called bot-protectors which monitor if any flagged red enter the area, and then come with a high lvl to kill the flagged character.
So, as a conclusion, stay far away from this game. Don't give those ****** developers and GMs who don't care about the community any financial support.
he's right about ncsoft. l2 is just something to earn their other companies vast amounts of cash. why do you think the economy in l2 is everythnig costing vast amounts and hardly any way to get money legitly? the game is set up to enable the secondary market.
LOL why you people before you leave need always to speak about bots? We got it already...And you should stay far away from this forum..we dont like people which only talk trash about a game you even dont know as i have read. You say only bot here and bot there...you are dumb as your post.
It's so funny and ridiculous reading you dirty bots (and probably ebayers) try to protect your illegitimate (and extremely childish) way to play in this game.
In other community boards the people must to be afraid when they post answers like yours in a thread about bots cuz the CM, like any other person, can clearly understand that you are all bots and bann you from the server.
But they do nothing. And this is why you post so quiet, trying to contradict Norseman who simply said THE TRUTH to the poor people who "don't know".
It's so funny and ridiculous reading you dirty bots (and probably ebayers) try to protect your illegitimate (and extremely childish) way to play in this game.
In other community boards the people must to be afraid when they post answers like yours in a thread about bots cuz the CM, like any other person, can clearly understand that you are all bots and bann you from the server.
But they do nothing. And this is why you post so quiet, trying to contradict Norseman who simply said THE TRUTH to the poor people who "don't know".
Please, little crybabies botters, shut up.
nobody is trying to contradict norseman. he makes valid points.
but ever poster that has been around long enough will know these posts are 2 things: 1. they are locked the instant they are seen, 2. they are reflections on the poster having problems overcoming the grind to level 80. this is the core reason why WoW players just wont cut it in good MMO's. good MMOS have long hard grinds for very good gear and levels and skills. when its handed to you on a platter with the tag "free, please take two" its not a good game, it is boring and too easy.
Lineage2 is hard. welcome to a challenging game. one of those challenges is other players. beat them or ****. if they are cheating, well, youll have to know how to beat that. most of us can't. some of us can. the few that do, manage to beat them where it counts - knowing the class.
Well i didnt find it hard to start with 0 adena in my pocket. Before i started playing i was searching for info , how to get money, which quests are most useful for me and with all these events lately you must be **** stupid to not earn something from it .
Hmm okay Norseman. But if you do plan on giving it another shot I wish you good luck.
Getting characters to 76+ without botting and buying and adena will give you a great sense of accomplisment, even if the world of Lineage II is full of idiots. I wouldn't have been playing this long if everything was easily accessable when I first started, I would've been bored without having a certain goal to achieve thats for sure because I would've been top level already and had top gear.. pvp can only be fun for so long that will get boring eventually. L2 has a good balance of things to achieve, even if they take a while to get. I like that in a MMO.
About the cheaters.. yeah they are around, but don't be blinded because EVERY MAJOR MMO HAS THEM, and percentage-wise I bet some have more than L2, only L2 isn't one big instanced world, so you see them more often than in WoW lets say. Don't be fooled. Find a good clan, there are a lot of legitimate players around, more so then you think.
Seriously, when I'm leaving a game, if I liked it I post a constructive post about what was nice and what wasn't IMO, and if I didn't like I don't bother losing time to write the post.
I don't understand that need to burn your home before leaving. Do you fear to come back?
Seriously, when I'm leaving a game, if I liked it I post a constructive post about what was nice and what wasn't IMO, and if I didn't like I don't bother losing time to write the post.
I don't understand that need to burn your home before leaving. Do you fear to come back?
Seriously, if you don't understand the psychological image, don't go further in your babbling about roleplayers or whatever. It has nothing to do with the subject.
I'm not speaking about who's destroying L2, I'm talking about the OP burrying his previous feelings for L2 and denying he had them. And if he hadn't them, he's just losing time yelling on those boards.
I have been playing MMOs for more than 7 yrs now, and in search for a new game after the failure of both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online I decided to go back in history and try out Lineage 2.
The game is around 5 yrs old and has a very nice selection of classes and subclasses which many new releases could learn a lot from, but besides that it is truely a sad story. I will not bother to complain further about the poor visual customization and the horrific click to move technology( no jumping, getting stuck on rocks, corners, etc - you don't feel like you are in real control of your character), the awful user interface, and other pretty obvious faults.
My main concern is that the game is just infested with bots, cheaters and has the worst gaming community I have ever encounted, and both the GMs and the community seem to have no will or power to change this.
The main reasons you should avoid this game is:
1) Because of all the bots the economy is so inflated that legit players will have to grind for years to come to get the money needed for top grade gear. Besides that, teaming is of very little value in this game, as most who know what they are doing team with themself dual or triple boxed with support classes.
2) If you for some reason live a very strange life and decided to try out this grind-fest you would be encounting bots all over, people who don't know the basic concepts of MMOs, so bad players that they wouldn't get invited to a pug in most good games.
3) If you for some reason even after discovering all this decided to still stick to the game you would be even more frustrated as you report the same bots for several days to the gms, you train them to death 50+ times, and they are still there.
4) Some of you might think that this could be fun since the game is based on an open PvP engine, but that is also so false. I can't believe you find any more that you willing to run around killing the bots and the other ******s you encounter in a systematic way, because their defense is simple: They don't attack back. If they don't attack back you turn red if you kill them, and you risk dropping you equipment ( both equiped and from inventory) on death. In many cases the bots have so called bot-protectors which monitor if any flagged red enter the area, and then come with a high lvl to kill the flagged character.
So, as a conclusion, stay far away from this game. Don't give those ****** developers and GMs who don't care about the community any financial support.
Cheers,
Vikingen
Paladin on Teon Server.
I wouldn't avoid the game, I'd just avoid playing on the Teon Server. The server that I'm on rocks!
You know that saying "any publicity is good publicity" ?:) So GJ OP :p
BTW we lack a mod to erase this b.... posts so i thing ignoring them and letting them sink under other post could be the key. So pls people stop posting ;)
he's right about ncsoft. l2 is just something to earn their other companies vast amounts of cash. why do you think the economy in l2 is everythnig costing vast amounts and hardly any way to get money legitly? the game is set up to enable the secondary market.
You are correct, and I'm happy to see other people who also see the truth of the matter. It's so many people writing just nonsense, ******ed and falsified posts on the forums so it's no point in following up on those posts.
The reasons why nothing is done with the bots is probably simple. If it is a rational company running the game they do estimates on how much their income would drop if they banned all the cheaters and bot-adena sellers.
The answer is simple bot use has gotten so out of control and no action has been taking for too long, so if they did a dramatic move and banned all the cheaters their income would drop equally drastic.
As the game is now it is the cheaters and the adena selling bot users who make the game profitable.
The drawback for the company as a whole is that they can quite easy get a bad reputation in the gaming community at large as a cheating friendly developer, and from the cheaters and ebayers further releases will also be their prime target as they did so well cheating in L2.
You are correct, and I'm happy to see other people who also see the truth of the matter. It's so many people writing just nonsense, ******ed and falsified posts on the forums so it's no point in following up on those posts.
The reasons why nothing is done with the bots is probably simple. If it is a rational company running the game they do estimates on how much their income would drop if they banned all the cheaters and bot-adena sellers.
The answer is simple bot use has gotten so out of control and no action has been taking for too long, so if they did a dramatic move and banned all the cheaters their income would drop equally drastic.
As the game is now it is the cheaters and the adena selling bot users who make the game profitable.
The drawback for the company as a whole is that they can quite easy get a bad reputation in the gaming community at large as a cheating friendly developer, and from the cheaters and ebayers further releases will also be their prime target as they did so well cheating in L2.
Before telling us the Truth, like a good white knight of the intarwebz, read all the threads about that topic.
How many time will we have to post the official answer that GMs prefer to ban all the bots so you can bring your legit friends to play, rather than earning the money from bot accounts?
It'll never end, because you're far too superior to us to admitt you're the one with the head in the [923].
he also posted this on MMORPG , can I have your gear?
I did as MMORPG is one of the best independant websites out there, and the website i turn to when looking for a new MMO. I got some comments to my original post which I clearified there, and I will post a modified version here as it could be of interest to the community and of help to the GMs.
Hello again,
I will reply to the comments regarding my original thread.
1) I had an account at MMORPG a while ago and participated in the discussion about the terrible failure of Age of Conan. MMORPG.com is one of the best independent sites for info regarding MMOs.It's the site I turn to when looking for new games to try out, so that is why I think good and critical reviews should be posted here. On official forums you usually find a majority of so called fanbois who for some reason think they do the game good by praising it when it's bad. The truth is that they both do that game worse and the MMO community in general worse when allowing developers and gaming companies to sell products which doesnt deliever either content or customer service that we all expect in this age.
2) Yes, I was looking for a new MMO which had some of the old school grinding. In some old games you could go on for hours in great teams, or be waiting for hours to get a spot in a good team. Lineage 2 is nothing like this when leveling up. As I said before, the rational players have several accounts and team just with themself with buffers/healers on follow, and estimates I have heard says that more than 50% of those who has gone to level 80+ has been boting. Since the community is a sad story, and the game has been crying for a buff in the xp rewards for teaming, you end up soloing most of the time. Unless you join a clan and someone feels pitty for you, or for some other reason wants to team with you just for the company. The feeling that you don't accomplish more in a team (xp/hr), is a terrible let down when, and quite frustrating for experienced players who try to push it to the limit like I do when grinding AoE-style.
3) The PVP is non-excistant at lower lvls (or for the casual player for months of play) besides random PVP which basicly involes three things. Some ******* comming with his main character to push you away from a xp-spot, getting attacked by usually a high lvl out farming those his clan is in war with, if you are stupid enough to kill a bot and the bot-protector comes and kills you. Neither of these forms of PvP is what any experienced player calls PvP, but rather ganking. The PvP in this game is only for those lvl 70+ and it takes months with casual play to achieve participation in it with casual legit play. Besides that you will probably also have to lvl up both a dwarf to tradeskill, other alts with pets to sell and farm for countless hours to get a decent gear to be nothing but cannon meat in PVP.
4) The claim that you can get decent gear for your in an hour is just rubbish. People quit the game after grinding several hours a day for months hoping to take part in the end-game pvp which they picture could be a cool thing. And the main reason those who stand the boting and terrible community quit is that they have to buy adena to get into s-grade(best) gear, and then you can risk ruining it all if you overenchant it to compete with those that have a 5 yr head-start on you, and you have to farm it all again. But seriously, the common sense from the people I have spoken to is that no new players get into s-grade gear unless they ebay or bot - it is as simple as that. If you want to run around getting slaughtered if you try to engage in PVP and be a terrible gimp compared to other players in PVE be my guest.
But seriously, the common sense from the people I have spoken to is that no new players get into s-grade gear unless they ebay or bot - it is as simple as that.
Boatload of fail. If you believe that, you're a loser and obviously you won't be able to get S-Grade gear.
Also if you want top-end content after a few months of play, you were definitely in the wrong game. The Lineage licence is wellknown for the harshness of grind. It's not a news, the first Lineage is old. I don't know what review made you come to L2, but it was probably full of falsehood.
If you want a game were you get all just by killing a few mobs and following fedex quests, and be able to be top level with best gear in a few months, that's WoW. Some like it, some don't. In L2 you have to build your play with all your characters and all the possibilities the game offers. It's long and a lot of mechanics are frustrating. This is why we came here in the first place.
The bulk of the playerbase is 76+ ... probably 78+ ... The game below third class is as boring as any MMO you join 5 years late. Go play WoW and marvel in the lvl 25 content.
You can get S grade easily if you clan up and make it a clan effort, people joining l2 with 1 account hoping to get to endgame and fully geared up in a couple of months end up ebaying, quitting or whining about it. You 're one of those people. You can have fun in A grade if you 're clanned, go do fortresses, don't expect to go do Aden sieges and Baium pvp you 're not ready for it yet. Some people play 2-3-4-5 years to enjoy that, there are shortcuts in game now that let you enjoy it in a year, you want in NOW ... tough luck
Game is ridiculously easy in the lower levels, especially compared to what some of us had to endure. So your whine works on other newbies, it won't work on people that have been playing this game for a long time.
My clan has real new players and they enjoy leveling at their own pace, while we help them without giving top gear on a silver plate. Common gear and luxury shop are very newbie friendly and combine very well with vitality system.
But after that, yes IC is expensive. Still legit players manage to get it. It just doesn't fall in your hands when you ding lvl 76.
the horrific click to move technology( no jumping, getting stuck on rocks, corners, etc - you don't feel like you are in real control of your character), the awful user interface, and other pretty obvious faults.
lol'ed? 7 yrs+ gaming...
you're still young
horrific click to move and you still play it..../thumb
lol if im asking you to play 2d games,i think you would kill yourself instead of playing it
Thank goodness you're not my friend, if not i'll listen to whinning everyday
I did as MMORPG is one of the best independant websites out there, and the website i turn to when looking for a new MMO. I got some comments to my original post which I clearified there, and I will post a modified version here as it could be of interest to the community and of help to the GMs.
Hello again,
I will reply to the comments regarding my original thread.
1) I had an account at MMORPG a while ago and participated in the discussion about the terrible failure of Age of Conan. MMORPG.com is one of the best independent sites for info regarding MMOs.It's the site I turn to when looking for new games to try out, so that is why I think good and critical reviews should be posted here. On official forums you usually find a majority of so called fanbois who for some reason think they do the game good by praising it when it's bad. The truth is that they both do that game worse and the MMO community in general worse when allowing developers and gaming companies to sell products which doesnt deliever either content or customer service that we all expect in this age.
2) Yes, I was looking for a new MMO which had some of the old school grinding. In some old games you could go on for hours in great teams, or be waiting for hours to get a spot in a good team. Lineage 2 is nothing like this when leveling up. As I said before, the rational players have several accounts and team just with themself with buffers/healers on follow, and estimates I have heard says that more than 50% of those who has gone to level 80+ has been boting. Since the community is a sad story, and the game has been crying for a buff in the xp rewards for teaming, you end up soloing most of the time. Unless you join a clan and someone feels pitty for you, or for some other reason wants to team with you just for the company. The feeling that you don't accomplish more in a team (xp/hr), is a terrible let down when, and quite frustrating for experienced players who try to push it to the limit like I do when grinding AoE-style.
3) The PVP is non-excistant at lower lvls (or for the casual player for months of play) besides random PVP which basicly involes three things. Some ******* comming with his main character to push you away from a xp-spot, getting attacked by usually a high lvl out farming those his clan is in war with, if you are stupid enough to kill a bot and the bot-protector comes and kills you. Neither of these forms of PvP is what any experienced player calls PvP, but rather ganking. The PvP in this game is only for those lvl 70+ and it takes months with casual play to achieve participation in it with casual legit play. Besides that you will probably also have to lvl up both a dwarf to tradeskill, other alts with pets to sell and farm for countless hours to get a decent gear to be nothing but cannon meat in PVP.
4) The claim that you can get decent gear for your in an hour is just rubbish. People quit the game after grinding several hours a day for months hoping to take part in the end-game pvp which they picture could be a cool thing. And the main reason those who stand the boting and terrible community quit is that they have to buy adena to get into s-grade(best) gear, and then you can risk ruining it all if you overenchant it to compete with those that have a 5 yr head-start on you, and you have to farm it all again. But seriously, the common sense from the people I have spoken to is that no new players get into s-grade gear unless they ebay or bot - it is as simple as that. If you want to run around getting slaughtered if you try to engage in PVP and be a terrible gimp compared to other players in PVE be my guest.
Best regards,
Vikingen
Paladin on the Teon Server
Still here? If you dont like the game..why you still post here? You just make a fool of yourself talking about stuff which happen on every online game. Even worth on some others. So shut up and dont talk so much trash about a game which dont deserv even 1sec of your trash talking.
I did as MMORPG is one of the best independant websites out there, and the website i turn to when looking for a new MMO. I got some comments to my original post which I clearified there, and I will post a modified version here as it could be of interest to the community and of help to the GMs.
Hello again,
I will reply to the comments regarding my original thread.
1) I had an account at MMORPG a while ago and participated in the discussion about the terrible failure of Age of Conan. MMORPG.com is one of the best independent sites for info regarding MMOs.It's the site I turn to when looking for new games to try out, so that is why I think good and critical reviews should be posted here. On official forums you usually find a majority of so called fanbois who for some reason think they do the game good by praising it when it's bad. The truth is that they both do that game worse and the MMO community in general worse when allowing developers and gaming companies to sell products which doesnt deliever either content or customer service that we all expect in this age.
2) Yes, I was looking for a new MMO which had some of the old school grinding. In some old games you could go on for hours in great teams, or be waiting for hours to get a spot in a good team. Lineage 2 is nothing like this when leveling up. As I said before, the rational players have several accounts and team just with themself with buffers/healers on follow, and estimates I have heard says that more than 50% of those who has gone to level 80+ has been boting. Since the community is a sad story, and the game has been crying for a buff in the xp rewards for teaming, you end up soloing most of the time. Unless you join a clan and someone feels pitty for you, or for some other reason wants to team with you just for the company. The feeling that you don't accomplish more in a team (xp/hr), is a terrible let down when, and quite frustrating for experienced players who try to push it to the limit like I do when grinding AoE-style.
3) The PVP is non-excistant at lower lvls (or for the casual player for months of play) besides random PVP which basicly involes three things. Some ******* comming with his main character to push you away from a xp-spot, getting attacked by usually a high lvl out farming those his clan is in war with, if you are stupid enough to kill a bot and the bot-protector comes and kills you. Neither of these forms of PvP is what any experienced player calls PvP, but rather ganking. The PvP in this game is only for those lvl 70+ and it takes months with casual play to achieve participation in it with casual legit play. Besides that you will probably also have to lvl up both a dwarf to tradeskill, other alts with pets to sell and farm for countless hours to get a decent gear to be nothing but cannon meat in PVP.
4) The claim that you can get decent gear for your in an hour is just rubbish. People quit the game after grinding several hours a day for months hoping to take part in the end-game pvp which they picture could be a cool thing. And the main reason those who stand the boting and terrible community quit is that they have to buy adena to get into s-grade(best) gear, and then you can risk ruining it all if you overenchant it to compete with those that have a 5 yr head-start on you, and you have to farm it all again. But seriously, the common sense from the people I have spoken to is that no new players get into s-grade gear unless they ebay or bot - it is as simple as that. If you want to run around getting slaughtered if you try to engage in PVP and be a terrible gimp compared to other players in PVE be my guest.
Best regards,
Vikingen
Paladin on the Teon Server
Since your first post on these boards I knew you will fail at L2, just didn't expect it will happen so soon. And this game communicty is best of all mmos i tried, also due to the fact, that such little whiny [censored] like you can't stand pressure and quit fast :)
Looks like he came from WoW where all bots and chinese farmers and not much visible because they are all in the instance dungeons. He is used to easy games and came to here and got pwned that he even cant affort D grade armor and weapon. Pitty you...just leave in peace and go back to the game you played before.
Ive been playing here for little over a month. Not too casual, not too hardcore. So far ive got a level 50 bounty hunter and 40 soul hound.
Personally i enjoy the game a lot. It has this feel of accomplishment when you do something by yourself knowing that a good number of the other people just ebayed it or bought adena. Im not a big fan of the grind fests but in this game they are justified. There is point to grinding and not just getting xp. Getting xp is the least of my concerns. Almost everything in this game is tied to the game economy. Almost everything you get can be sold. There is potential for moneymaking at every corner and i love it! There is no other game out there that i know of(and ive played a lot of MMO's) that can be compared to L2 economy based. Its just unreal.
At the moment im farming my **** off to buy a BW Heavy set for my spoiler. Last night i got the breastplate and it felt quite good. Tho im not really sure if the price was good(19kk :) ) I can probably get the whole set in a week and by that time i will be around level 55. Now im not going to lie that ive got a little boost with 20kk adena to get a +5 top c 2 hand blunt, but i already payed the adena back.
The game itself is great but there are problems too. Bots are just too many... And i really dont think that GM's are banning that many. I mean whats the problem? The GM logs in on Teon, goes to Branded for example and finds 15 bots there. There are usually around 15 bots there. He can ban them right there. Why is no one doing that? Everybody knows where the bots are. Why arent they banned? Also the botting itself has got so out of hand that many people think its ok to bot for XP at high level. Wtf? How can it be ok to bot even if its really hard to level?
The biggest problem of this game is the end game content. This is my impression so far. There are 2 alliances that rule on Teon. They will never be beaten. Why? Because the leaders of these alliances buy adena. A lot of adena. A lot! Ive been told this by friends that i trust and i got really disappointed about it. Baium, Valakas, Antaras, Castle sieges ect are allowed only to those who can afford buying adena which is illegal btw. So basically all the honest players who play this game the way its meant to be played are f-ed. They will never have chance at the end game content. Even if they play up to the top level, manage to grind themselfs to S Grade all they can do is some random PvP and go play their other toon. This is beyond ridiculous! Few people buy tons of adena, never get banned and rule buying everyone off, doing everything they want, getting everything they want. This is the real crap. In other MMO's atleast you get equal chance at end game content.
Still im planning to play this game as long as the feeling of accomplishment lasts. It could last years, it could last another week. Who knows? The game has its problems. They can be solved if the right people want them solved. That tho is not the issue of a level 50 spoiler. :)
The biggest problem of this game is the end game content. This is my impression so far. There are 2 alliances that rule on Teon. They will never be beaten. Why? Because the leaders of these alliances buy adena. A lot of adena. A lot! Ive been told this by friends that i trust and i got really disappointed about it. Baium, Valakas, Antaras, Castle sieges ect are allowed only to those who can afford buying adena which is illegal btw. So basically all the honest players who play this game the way its meant to be played are f-ed. They will never have chance at the end game content. Even if they play up to the top level, manage to grind themselfs to S Grade all they can do is some random PvP and go play their other toon. This is beyond ridiculous! Few people buy tons of adena, never get banned and rule buying everyone off, doing everything they want, getting everything they want. This is the real crap. In other MMO's atleast you get equal chance at end game content.
Still im planning to play this game as long as the feeling of accomplishment lasts. It could last years, it could last another week. Who knows? The game has its problems. They can be solved if the right people want them solved. That tho is not the issue of a level 50 spoiler. :)
You are missing one aspect of the game ... politics. End game content involves a lot of it. A single 85 lvl player, no matter how great his equipment is, will never be able to participate in endgame stuff alone. You need numbers of people organized in clans. THere is no "block" on anything, and certainly no link between end game content and buying adena. If your toon is high enough and equipped well enough you can join a clan and participate in it.
The rest of the part of your post I m quoting is irrelevant to be honest. Top clans in no matter what server don't really need to buy adena, they keep epic bosses on lockdown, epic bosses drop jewels that if they wish to they can sell for more adena than you can even imagine. Same applies to armor/weapons.
Amikae, please remember that every online game which is p2p have bot problems. WoW has it too, the only good thing is that you dont see them because they farm EPIC tiers in those instances! Great he? bots farming epic armors and weapons :D
I have a friend which got chaught botting there, guess what he just got a 3 day time ban...and now he still bots and also ebays!!! A shame that a so easy game where you can acomplish all fast and by your own is still full of bots and cheaters.
All i want to say is, enjoy the game..enjoy L2 which isnt a solo game like wow. Enjoy to be with your friends/clanmates and archive things ingame. Discover what the game have to offer..there is so much really. Dont let you bother by bots. I play this game since c3 and never thougth of quitting because of bots. I love the game..how it works and so on. And because of some bots, they wont take my fun out of this game :)
nobody is trying to contradict norseman. he makes valid points.
but ever poster that has been around long enough will know these posts are 2 things: 1. they are locked the instant they are seen, 2. they are reflections on the poster having problems overcoming the grind to level 80. this is the core reason why WoW players just wont cut it in good MMO's. good MMOS have long hard grinds for very good gear and levels and skills. when its handed to you on a platter with the tag "free, please take two" its not a good game, it is boring and too easy.
Lineage2 is hard. welcome to a challenging game. one of those challenges is other players. beat them or ****. if they are cheating, well, youll have to know how to beat that. most of us can't. some of us can. the few that do, manage to beat them where it counts - knowing the class.
If you think you're cool and hardcore for grinding for years...sorry nobody is impressed, WoW is for people with lives most people you met on lineage 2 work part time or are unemployed
If you think you're cool and hardcore for grinding for years...sorry nobody is impressed, WoW is for people with lives most people you met on lineage 2 work part time or are unemployed
Wrong. WoW is for noobs, kids which want all without any big effort ingame.
nobody is trying to contradict norseman. he makes valid points.
but ever poster that has been around long enough will know these posts are 2 things: 1. they are locked the instant they are seen, 2. they are reflections on the poster having problems overcoming the grind to level 80. this is the core reason why WoW players just wont cut it in good MMO's. good MMOS have long hard grinds for very good gear and levels and skills. when its handed to you on a platter with the tag "free, please take two" its not a good game, it is boring and too easy.
Lineage2 is hard. welcome to a challenging game. one of those challenges is other players. beat them or ****. if they are cheating, well, youll have to know how to beat that. most of us can't. some of us can. the few that do, manage to beat them where it counts - knowing the class.
Lineage 2 is not hard just time consuming, also the OP never mentioned WoW in his post or in the games he played, learn to read LOL no wonder you feel awesome killing same mobs for days on end
Also if you guys want to talk about WoW (this is coming from someone who hated it)
It also has a grind and nothing is handed to you on a silver platter you have to do raids like we grind lvls on lineage 2
Just WoW is gear based you grind for months and months for gear lineage 2 you grind months and months for levels
If you think you're cool and hardcore for grinding for years...sorry nobody is impressed, WoW is for people with lives most people you met on lineage 2 work part time or are unemployed
Wrong on that account WoW hands you everything easily; Excessive instance zoning, Gear that drops almost every 5th mob, EXP that is acquired about 1000% faster then Lineage 2. I have a full time job, a new wife, and a busy family life and still ive preferred lineage 2. We never said he mentioned WoW, but the way he talks it is very similar to the way every WoW player almost always talks of other games.
Lineage 2 is hard, its not just time consuming. You cant just walk out make every amount of adena required for your gear at the start of your new grade. You cant just go out and level to 80 in peace even the untagged still gets griefers. WoW is a walk in the park and easy to gain equipment for your level and $ flow is rarely a problem.
And to call WoW a grind is hilarious there is no grind in that game; perhaps you grind to get materials but level/gear grinding is not there, i know this because i had 4 friends leave lineage 2 from the grind and have stayed in WoW due to the lack of grind and ease of gaining gear/levels.
Wrong on that account WoW hands you everything easily; Excessive instance zoning, Gear that drops almost every 5th mob, EXP that is acquired about 1000% faster then Lineage 2. I have a full time job, a new wife, and a busy family life and still ive preferred lineage 2. We never said he mentioned WoW, but the way he talks it is very similar to the way every WoW player almost always talks of other games.
Lineage 2 is hard, its not just time consuming. You cant just walk out make every amount of adena required for your gear at the start of your new grade. You cant just go out and level to 80 in peace even the untagged still gets griefers. WoW is a walk in the park and easy to gain equipment for your level and $ flow is rarely a problem.
And to call WoW a grind is hilarious there is no grind in that game; perhaps you grind to get materials but level/gear grinding is not there, i know this because i had 4 friends leave lineage 2 from the grind and have stayed in WoW due to the lack of grind and ease of gaining gear/levels.
You have obviously never played end game WoW people spend 6 months+ grinding raids to get armor sets and items.
Like I said it is a grind for GEAR not levels.
I played WoW took me about 2 months to get max level, another month to get get geared to do the higher raids. to get my first tier set which was being on a schedule grinding raids weekly most parts rare drops a good 4 months
Thing is you are always grinding for better gear it never ends with every raid update
As for it being easy? yea kinda if you play with a good raid group that knows what there doing but I dont see it being that much easier then lineage 2
You have obviously never played end game WoW people spend 6 months+ grinding raids to get armor sets and items.
Like I said it is a grind for GEAR not levels.
I played WoW took me about 2 months to get max level, another month to get get geared to do the higher raids. to get my first tier set which was being on a schedule grinding raids weekly most parts rare drops a good 4 months
Thing is you are always grinding for better gear it never ends with every raid update
As for it being easy? yea kinda if you play with a good raid group that knows what there doing but I dont see it being that much easier then lineage 2
So, it sux..end of story...this thread wasnt for wow anyway. We shouldnt talk about a crappy game eigther..just a waste of time.
I did as MMORPG is one of the best independant websites out there, and the website i turn to when looking for a new MMO. I got some comments to my original post which I clearified there, and I will post a modified version here as it could be of interest to the community and of help to the GMs.
Hello again,
I will reply to the comments regarding my original thread.
1) I had an account at MMORPG a while ago and participated in the discussion about the terrible failure of Age of Conan. MMORPG.com is one of the best independent sites for info regarding MMOs.It's the site I turn to when looking for new games to try out, so that is why I think good and critical reviews should be posted here. On official forums you usually find a majority of so called fanbois who for some reason think they do the game good by praising it when it's bad. The truth is that they both do that game worse and the MMO community in general worse when allowing developers and gaming companies to sell products which doesnt deliever either content or customer service that we all expect in this age.
2) Yes, I was looking for a new MMO which had some of the old school grinding. In some old games you could go on for hours in great teams, or be waiting for hours to get a spot in a good team. Lineage 2 is nothing like this when leveling up. As I said before, the rational players have several accounts and team just with themself with buffers/healers on follow, and estimates I have heard says that more than 50% of those who has gone to level 80+ has been boting. Since the community is a sad story, and the game has been crying for a buff in the xp rewards for teaming, you end up soloing most of the time. Unless you join a clan and someone feels pitty for you, or for some other reason wants to team with you just for the company. The feeling that you don't accomplish more in a team (xp/hr), is a terrible let down when, and quite frustrating for experienced players who try to push it to the limit like I do when grinding AoE-style.
3) The PVP is non-excistant at lower lvls (or for the casual player for months of play) besides random PVP which basicly involes three things. Some ******* comming with his main character to push you away from a xp-spot, getting attacked by usually a high lvl out farming those his clan is in war with, if you are stupid enough to kill a bot and the bot-protector comes and kills you. Neither of these forms of PvP is what any experienced player calls PvP, but rather ganking. The PvP in this game is only for those lvl 70+ and it takes months with casual play to achieve participation in it with casual legit play. Besides that you will probably also have to lvl up both a dwarf to tradeskill, other alts with pets to sell and farm for countless hours to get a decent gear to be nothing but cannon meat in PVP.
4) The claim that you can get decent gear for your in an hour is just rubbish. People quit the game after grinding several hours a day for months hoping to take part in the end-game pvp which they picture could be a cool thing. And the main reason those who stand the boting and terrible community quit is that they have to buy adena to get into s-grade(best) gear, and then you can risk ruining it all if you overenchant it to compete with those that have a 5 yr head-start on you, and you have to farm it all again. But seriously, the common sense from the people I have spoken to is that no new players get into s-grade gear unless they ebay or bot - it is as simple as that. If you want to run around getting slaughtered if you try to engage in PVP and be a terrible gimp compared to other players in PVE be my guest.
Best regards,
Vikingen
Paladin on the Teon Server
Ok, I have read your comments and I think I know what the problem is. The problem is that you are a newb and stupid. Now you may start crying because I insulted you; but, in fact, I am telling the truth. This game is not like wow, or any other game where the mechanics are designed to hold your hand for most of the game to protect you from your own stupidity. This game is designed to punish the stupid and reward the smart. In fact they tonned it down a lot, it used to be a lot more hard core.
Ok, I have read your comments and I think I know what the problem is. The problem is that you are a newb and stupid. Now you may start crying because I insulted you; but, in fact, I am telling the truth. This game is not like wow, or any other game where the mechanics are designed to hold your hand for most of the game to protect you from your own stupidity. This game is designed to punish the stupid and reward the smart. In fact they tonned it down a lot, it used to be a lot more hard core.
** yes...a lot more harder..no vit system..comon stuff..ect ect...the game is already much more easier but still to much wow n00byz complain :rolleyes:
I need to clarify here: World of Warcraft and Lineage 2 are two very different games. And claims about how crappy game WoW is are just plain childish(no offence). In Lineage 2 you have the oportunity to obtain any gear in the game without raiding, with your own effort. Leveling in Lineage 2 is much harder but the game is more balanced and rewarding at each level. Leveling in WoW is really not the point of the game. You get to level 80 fairly quick. But in WoW you cannot obtain the best gear in the game. There is only one way to get the best gear in the game and that is raiding. It cannot be crafted, it cannot be bought. In order to raid you need to find a guild, in order to raid succesfully and not just waste your time the guild must be good. Finding a good guild in WoW is extreemely hard. Personally ive played WoW for 3 years and my char is still in one of the best guilds in my realm. If i resubscribe now i can raid and get the loot i want with little effort. How many people are like me? 100 per realm? Each realm has around 10-15k players. If you cannot find a decent guild you are stuck. You cannot get to the top gear and you are left with PvP and gold farming pointlessly.
Now for raiding you need to grind. You need gold and you have to repeat the same grind everyday, eventho you are max level. You grind, then grind more and more because your cash flows faster than it flows in L2. And unlike the grind in L2 where it has some sort of purpose, the grind in WoW is tiring and very annoying. You grind just to be able to raid. Everyday the same repeatable daily quests, or farming for some mats that you hope you will sell. Yes getting gear in WoW is easy for 1% of the playerbase and even that cannot be called easy. The game is much more demanding than L2 and its like a fulltime job in a hardcore guild. Everyday raiding hours 8 PM - 00:00 AM. In L2 you can manage on your own, in WoW thats completely impossible.
At this point ive had enough of WoW. Its much more time consuming, stressing and annoying after 3 years of raiding. I can bet that most of the people that talk about grinding here could not cope in a hardcore guild in WoW. Now Lineage is so much more relaxed. You know your goals, you know that they are possible to achieve. Its up to you to achieve them. You have unlimited freedom.
Try not to compare exactly those two games. Its pointless. They both have their strenghts and weaknesses. And both are great games depending on what kind of MMO you want to play.
Il be ****ed! Im starting to talk like master Yoda.:o
I need to clarify here: World of Warcraft and Lineage 2 are two very different games. And claims about how crappy game WoW is are just plain childish(no offence). In Lineage 2 you have the oportunity to obtain any gear in the game without raiding, with your own effort.
All epic jewels and Vesper items are raid only. And good luck soloing hellbound to get Dynasty items. So your logic is kinda flawed ;)
Ok im sorry. There are some pieces you need to raid for. But can they be sold? If they can then your logic is flawed. You still can run around in S Grade achieved with your own effort. Still lets not pick phrases from our posts. You know what i meant. Btw ive noticed this hate from L2 players towards WoW and i must tell you its really funny and uncalled for. Ive been very active in the WoW community the last 3 years and i must tell you there is no such hate towards L2. So i dont really see where this hate is coming from. Flaming a game that really doesnt have that much in common with L2 is really strange and relating every flame topic on the L2 forums with "WoW noobs" is plain silly.
Just chill out. Lineage 2 is a great game! World of Warcraft is a great game! There is no wrong choice between those two. Its all about taste and the mood your in. I have played and enjoyed both games.
I don't hate wow, I didn't enjoy it much, that's true, in the sense that to be competitive in wow you need to make it a full time job. Personaly I m not flaming anything, except the op, who I think suffers from chronic newbie syndrome where everything sucks because the other guys are better equiped/higher level than him and therefore are cheating.
I think it comes from the fact that regularily some WoW players come to these forum boards and try to show us how their vision of the game is better. That's why when you have a thread like this one, there's an immediate link even if WoW wasn't mentionned by the OP.
We don't all hate WoW.
But WoW is also hated widely on the internet because it's very popular, yet not original at all. You have another kind of hatred in the older games like UO, where the players are ****** off by the new players that WoW introduced to MMOs and only have WoW for a reference. Of course we all have our first MMO as a reference, so it doesn't help.
Why are people mentioning WoW in this thread ? The original post and my follow up post explaining it further never mentioned WoW, but rather what I believe many new players are eager to get answers on when trying a new game. I have however mentioned two other games which failed to live up to the hype mainly because they promised content on release which was not in the game ( ie the developers and marketing people lied to the customers). What is even more utterly ******ed reading some of the replies from some of the mindless fanbois posting here is the fact that I also disliked WoW for the reason that it was too easy, too childfriendly as well as some other reasons. So please learn to read and don't hijack and spam a thread using a common known fact that WoW is easy to make a pathetic attempt to hijack this thread.
Claiming that lvling is hard when you basicly just grind the same way as you have done from the start of the game for end-less hours is utterly ******ed. And when it's a fact that the majority who get to lvl 80+, and especially if you aim for that starting now, are bot users the speak of achievements is utterly ******ed when you see all the others around you bot and cheat. It should for some reason make someone with no life standing the grindfest feel proud that he sat in front of his pc and pushed some buttons again and again for millions of times, while others where smart and used a bot to do that monkey job ?
The same thing that getting an item is hard when the prices are so inflated that you have to work a lot to get it, or do as most and ebay the adena. With a few exceptions the gear is tradeable and not at all linked to your game achievements, but rather your ability to ebay adena.
Besides that just reading some of the replies and attempts on insults as well as brining in points about other games to distract the content of the thread is just another example of the horrible community.
While the OP has some valid points and L2 has many flaws...
-The game is hard... intentionally. If you could not figure out the usefulness of other people, then you never actually played L2. The challenge of this game comes from other players...
-The community of L2 is the reason I play. I have met more RL friends from L2 than any other game I have ever played. Friends from England, France, eastern Europe, and many other countries along with every corner of North America.
-The game MAKES you band together to accomplish anything real... and its not about loot... its about power. Other games you just "kill big baddie #4383821831231", in this one you dominate a server or liberate it! I have more "war stories" from this game than any other due simply to the characters I love and the characters I love to hate.
-I consider the struggle against bots and ebay players the whole point of the game. There are just as many people who "cheat" in reality... this is no different. I choose to beat the cheaters legitimately... I don't always win... but sometimes we do triumph... in fact, it happens more often that you would think. Something about level 85 bots not knowing what half their skills do...
I have to say... compared to any other MMO, L2 has the best community period.
I can't understand why anyone would ever play WoW... the game is so-so... but the community is horrid. I am pretty sure that people mentally older than 9 do not play or at least do not play for long. WoW is the only MMO I can think of where 10 minutes in, I wanted to go get sterilized and NEVER have children EVER.
Why are people mentioning WoW in this thread ? The original post and my follow up post explaining it further never mentioned WoW, but rather what I believe many new players are eager to get answers on when trying a new game. I have however mentioned two other games which failed to live up to the hype mainly because they promised content on release which was not in the game ( ie the developers and marketing people lied to the customers). What is even more utterly ******ed reading some of the replies from some of the mindless fanbois posting here is the fact that I also disliked WoW for the reason that it was too easy, too childfriendly as well as some other reasons. So please learn to read and don't hijack and spam a thread using a common known fact that WoW is easy to make a pathetic attempt to hijack this thread.
Claiming that lvling is hard when you basicly just grind the same way as you have done from the start of the game for end-less hours is utterly ******ed. And when it's a fact that the majority who get to lvl 80+, and especially if you aim for that starting now, are bot users the speak of achievements is utterly ******ed when you see all the others around you bot and cheat. It should for some reason make someone with no life standing the grindfest feel proud that he sat in front of his pc and pushed some buttons again and again for millions of times, while others where smart and used a bot to do that monkey job ?
The same thing that getting an item is hard when the prices are so inflated that you have to work a lot to get it, or do as most and ebay the adena. With a few exceptions the gear is tradeable and not at all linked to your game achievements, but rather your ability to ebay adena.
Besides that just reading some of the replies and attempts on insults as well as brining in points about other games to distract the content of the thread is just another example of the horrible community.
I only mentioned WoW as a comparison and because a lot of people have played it. I dont think WoW is a bad game, I think WoW is a very good game, but it is a game designed for stupid people.
You claim you wanted to play a "hardcore" game? Well, then you should relegate yourself to the fact that the first few months arent gonna be that great for you until you get the hang on the game. After all how hardcore could the game be if you could learn everything about it in a week or w/e you been playing?
You claim that there is no pvp at low levels. Well most regard low levels nowdays as just something to get through to get to the fun, the end game. Most experienced people can get to S grade in a few weeks. Again using the WoW comparison, the level where you are at is the same level in wow where all that happens is you get ganked by lvl 70s, and your only goal is to get to 70 so you can start getting epics/raiding etc etc. In fact at this point the game doesnt really start until you get to lvl 78 when you can go into Hellbound.
You claim that groups are hard to come by, well its true if you are a random new guy. The trust level in this game is very low, and most people who have played for a while have been at war at one point or another and are generally standoffish to new people they never seen before. Where as in wow the worst that could happen if you trust a wrong person is you get ninja looted out of some instance junk, and if you get trade scammed the gms will return your stuff; The penalties for trusting a wrong person in this game are much higher, and if you get scammed GMs will not do anything. So, when people see a you, Mr. " random newb tank in ****** gear" they will pass on you because quite frankly the risk isnt worth a reward. Most people join clans and group people they befriend. Working on your personal relations in this game is as important as lvling up your character.
So, in the end L2 is exactly what it claims to be. Its a hardcore game where you have to compete with everyone for everything. Where you have to survive by your wits, and nothing is just given to you, you have to compete for it. Some people may not enjoy such enviroment to play in, and thats fine. But some people do. So make up your mind, because a hardcore game where everyone hold your hand all the time, is not hardcore.
I only mentioned WoW as a comparison and because a lot of people have played it. I dont think WoW is a bad game, I think WoW is a very good game, but it is a game designed for stupid people.
You claim you wanted to play a "hardcore" game? Well, then you should relegate yourself to the fact that the first few months arent gonna be that great for you until you get the hang on the game. After all how hardcore could the game be if you could learn everything about it in a week or w/e you been playing?
You claim that there is no pvp at low levels. Well most regard low levels nowdays as just something to get through to get to the fun, the end game. Most experienced people can get to S grade in a few weeks. Again using the WoW comparison, the level where you are at is the same level in wow where all that happens is you get ganked by lvl 70s, and your only goal is to get to 70 so you can start getting epics/raiding etc etc. In fact at this point the game doesnt really start until you get to lvl 78 when you can go into Hellbound.
You claim that groups are hard to come by, well its true if you are a random new guy. The trust level in this game is very low, and most people who have played for a while have been at war at one point or another and are generally standoffish to new people they never seen before. Where as in wow the worst that could happen if you trust a wrong person is you get ninja looted out of some instance junk, and if you get trade scammed the gms will return your stuff; The penalties for trusting a wrong person in this game are much higher, and if you get scammed GMs will not do anything. So, when people see a you, Mr. " random newb tank in ****** gear" they will pass on you because quite frankly the risk isnt worth a reward. Most people join clans and group people they befriend. Working on your personal relations in this game is as important as lvling up your character.
So, in the end L2 is exactly what it claims to be. Its a hardcore game where you have to compete with everyone for everything. Where you have to survive by your wits, and nothing is just given to you, you have to compete for it. Some people may not enjoy such enviroment to play in, and thats fine. But some people do. So make up your mind, because a hardcore game where everyone hold your hand all the time, is not hardcore.
1) You claim as me that the game doesn't start until at high lvls, and you indicate that experienced players can get to s-grade in a matter of a few ( 3-4?) weeks, while new players should expect to play for months. I have never been raising a debate about this, but rather that any accomplishments lvl wise is made through a monkey hit button grind which most players achiving high lvls now do with boting. I have talked to several other guys in the game who also are experienced players from other games starting out new in L2 boting and buying adena to participate in the end-game. I refuse to take part in a game where this is the common policy as it severly diminshes all accomplishments. I would also like to hear comments from others that it is common that experienced players rerolling hit s-grade in a matter of a few weeks - oh, I forgot....you are probably a boter and refer to those so called experienced bot-users.
2) I have stated that incentives for teaming are limited and rational players xp on their own or by bots since it appears a lot faster. All the other things you mention about teaming is nothing special to L2, but rather common to anyone who has played MMOs for a while. The major difference being that L2 is infested with bots and people dual boxing rendering some classes useless to lvl up with for active play.
3) You make another ******ed and arrogant comment that I had bad gear and indicate that I didn't know how to xp, when I have been in top gear, and lately +6 enchanted doom armor, +8 b-grade pole for aoe grinding, +7 top b-grade tank weapon with health sa for trying out raid bosses. Anyway, it's just another example of an airhead arrogancy to suggest this, as most experienced MMO players can easily adapt from games to games. I always had in this game, and in all games I have played, great teams when I found someone into the way most experienced people lvl- that is aoe-style if it's about grinding. The drawback in L2 as I indicated was that my xp/hr dropped even when I teamed with someone who dualed a buffer out of team since I made serious aoe-kills on my own. But it all fades due to the fact that you know the others you will encounter and compete with in pvp and clan wars are cheaters and airheads.
So please don't bother to try to come write things you have no knowledge about. It's even worse to see someone who are a bit litterate like you doing it than the typical forum spammer airhead. Stick to the issues raised in the original post and my follow up post to it, or make your own thread.
And btw, if someone decides to check out a new game, and wonder how the community is. Check out the maturity and quality of posts on official forums - I failed on this as both l2blah and this forum shows a severe lack of quality community.
srr to disapoint u but what u say about getting gear is ******.
u can get common A grade weapon+armour and xp until 76 with no effort.
u have quest that give good money until 76.
u can do market every night when u go sleep.how hard is to craft shots and set shop?i not even talking in buying and selling.
if u know what u doing u can buy stuff 20m cheaper and get nice profit because botters/ebayers dont care about price of stuff so they buy high and sell cheap.
in HB u could make like 100m a day easy.i already made 200m in 4 hours of play time there just in divine stones/orichalcum.
u simply cant expect to have epics jewels cheap since they r rare to get and normally clans keep inside.
dude only spot that r worthed to party is for HB because with 150 element weapons other spots r very easy.some ppl aoe in HB and make 50m+ xp per hour....
u have spots that give 20m+ per hour to 9 man party.
i got 40-75(subclass) in 2 weeks and always with live players.i selected a tyrant and was killing in pagan on trio from lvl 62.maybe select toon that r require.tanks arent very demanded.
make sws/bd/ee/bp/buffer and u get alot of party,easy money,easy xp and this classes arent gear require.if u make a toon that r gear dependent of course u dont have money for everything he need after couple of months playing
1) You claim as me that the game doesn't start until at high lvls, and you indicate that experienced players can get to s-grade in a matter of a few ( 3-4?) weeks, while new players should expect to play for months. I have never been raising a debate about this, but rather that any accomplishments lvl wise is made through a monkey hit button grind which most players achiving high lvls now do with boting. I have talked to several other guys in the game who also are experienced players from other games starting out new in L2 boting and buying adena to participate in the end-game. I refuse to take part in a game where this is the common policy as it severly diminshes all accomplishments. I would also like to hear comments from others that it is common that experienced players rerolling hit s-grade in a matter of a few weeks - oh, I forgot....you are probably a boter and refer to those so called experienced bot-users.
2) I have stated that incentives for teaming are limited and rational players xp on their own or by bots since it appears a lot faster. All the other things you mention about teaming is nothing special to L2, but rather common to anyone who has played MMOs for a while. The major difference being that L2 is infested with bots and people dual boxing rendering some classes useless to lvl up with for active play.
3) You make another ******ed and arrogant comment that I had bad gear and indicate that I didn't know how to xp, when I have been in top gear, and lately +6 enchanted doom armor, +8 b-grade pole for aoe grinding, +7 top b-grade tank weapon with health sa for trying out raid bosses. Anyway, it's just another example of an airhead arrogancy to suggest this, as most experienced MMO players can easily adapt from games to games. I always had in this game, and in all games I have played, great teams when I found someone into the way most experienced people lvl- that is aoe-style if it's about grinding. The drawback in L2 as I indicated was that my xp/hr dropped even when I teamed with someone who dualed a buffer out of team since I made serious aoe-kills on my own. But it all fades due to the fact that you know the others you will encounter and compete with in pvp and clan wars are cheaters and airheads.
So please don't bother to try to come write things you have no knowledge about. It's even worse to see someone who are a bit litterate like you doing it than the typical forum spammer airhead. Stick to the issues raised in the original post and my follow up post to it, or make your own thread.
And btw, if someone decides to check out a new game, and wonder how the community is. Check out the maturity and quality of posts on official forums - I failed on this as both l2blah and this forum shows a severe lack of quality community.
So, if your gear is good, and you are leveling fast, and you found some good people to group with, then what exactly are you complaining about? The fact that people cheat and bot and ebay? Thats present in EVERY game that is worth playing for a long time. Go look at any site that sells gold for money, you think they only sell for L2? Hell no, they sell for like 10 other MMOs too, pretty much every MMO that is somewhat popular. Where do you think this gold comes from that they sell? From cheating and botting. Its present in EVERY game, unless its some obscure game that noone cares to bot. If you want to play online where people dont cheat, I suggest you go get yourself and xbox or something, because cheating and MMOs go hand in hand.
Like I said, you simply dont know much about the game and continue making stupid assumptions. The incentives for grouping in this game are not limited because while you are low level you can xp easy without much support, at high lvl its not possible. So yes, you can get to 78 maybe even 80 relativly quickly with OOP buffer, but then what? You cant do HB without support. You sure as hell cant pvp without support. Cant raid for boss jewels without support. Cant siege without support. So, the incentives for grouping are very high infact. But like I said, you just dont know much about the game yet. This game is based around clans, and personal relationships and friendships. If you are some random guy why should anyone take time and interest in helping you?
What else are you complaining about? Grind? Grind is present in every MMO. If you dont like to grind, and want to play online, check out xbox.
Basically you are just complaing about things that are present in every MMO, and the grouping incentive thing is just your newbishness talking.
The game itself is good, the problem here is the company in charge. Give it to the WoW owners, and in two months will be a BestSeller.
If that ever happens 90% of the current player base will quit and move to a new game. But of course there will be so many new players that you will not notice the ones gone
to OP: go play WoW, its built for the mass market of ppl who don't like hardcore MMOs and get off these boards, lin2 is one of the last hard games in a world of cake MMOs. Its quite possible to make high lvl and top gear legit... its not easy, and very hard to do without a good legit clan (jumping in a ebayer clan isn't gonna help you any), which are out there, although not common. All in all lin2 delivers in the hardcore experience, which obviously isn't for you (or ebayers for that matter, but thats another story), and its perfectly normal that it doesn't fit you, it doesn't fit most people, but thats what makes lin2 good... if they ever cancel lin1, I'll probably play here full time, :P but 'til then, i have to much invested there to play my weak *** char here full time, til then this is just my other game I play sometimes, when I want some eye candy.
in relation to WoW, they took the gear grind out with their last update, friend at work cleared all raid content 2nd week WotLK was out... until BC came out you could get a decent level of grinding to get up to and clear naxx, but with every expansion since they've reduced the gear grind, so you can pretty much pick the game up, level and gear in a month or two, get in a good clan and clear all raid content... wow holds little pve allure even to average players anymore, let alone above average players... their arenas are pretty much all they have anymore, which is just a glorified more complicated 3rd person shooter death match.
Lineage2 is hard. welcome to a challenging game. one of those challenges is other players. beat them or ****. if they are cheating, well, youll have to know how to beat that. most of us can't. some of us can. the few that do, manage to beat them where it counts - knowing the class. I agree with most of what you said except this paragraph. Lineage II use to be hard but it isn't anymore. The game is quite easy to play and not very challenging at all. The only hard part about L2 is keeping up with the botters/ebayers legitly and having a chance at end game(high lvls). I gave up a long time ago trying to keep up and just play the way I want to and have fun. If a person wants to play L2 and dominate they will be in for a big suprise. Yes there is a very small minority who have done it legitly but they are a very small minority. The OP does have valid points and I do understand his frustration.
This is probably the easiest MMORPG game that I've played, and it's probably the only reason why I'm still playing it TBH.
It's just mundane. They insane grind is pretty much all the game has going for it for a couple big reasons:
1. People always wanna level up (which takes lots of time) to see if things will change at "end game".
2. People who are very high level (esp those who didn't bot their toons to high levels) have invested too much time (and in some cases, RL$ ebaying adena) to just walk away from the game.
There is hardly any content worth mentioning in this game. That is what needs to be fixed. This game has gotten bad reviews since release for the same reason, and these threads exist on pretty much all forums where people mention/talk about Lineage II. The game is bad; that's why most people can do nothing other than complain about it (even the more hardcore players do this - a lot).
Taking long to level doesn't make a game difficult. It just makes it more boring than other games cause you end up doing the same thing for rediculously long periods of time.
I'll say this again, the WoW comments are ******ed. When you dog on WoW, you're just embarassing yourselves, TBH. WoW has shown the world what a majority of the MMORPG community wants. It's not 1999 anymore. People do not want to grind the way they do in Lineage II and did in games like EverQuest. If you want everyone who has an issue with this game to goto WoW then you pretty much want your game to die.
WoW has enough players, we don't.
And why do you think Lineage II is becoming more and more WoWified as they release updates. Certainly everyone on this forum is ignorant to the point where they don't see this? Tell them to go play WoW. Soon, you'll be playing it too. You'll just take longer to level than they will, and for what? Bad itemization, low player population, increasing bot population due to the grind factor, and hardly any factorable content?
This is probably the easiest MMORPG game that I've played, and it's probably the only reason why I'm still playing it TBH.
It's just mundane. They insane grind is pretty much all the game has going for it for a couple big reasons:
1. People always wanna level up (which takes lots of time) to see if things will change at "end game".
2. People who are very high level (esp those who didn't bot their toons to high levels) have invested too much time (and in some cases, RL$ ebaying adena) to just walk away from the game.
There is hardly any content worth mentioning in this game. That is what needs to be fixed. This game has gotten bad reviews since release for the same reason, and these threads exist on pretty much all forums where people mention/talk about Lineage II. The game is bad; that's why most people can do nothing other than complain about it (even the more hardcore players do this - a lot).
Taking long to level doesn't make a game difficult. It just makes it more boring than other games cause you end up doing the same thing for rediculously long periods of time.
I'll say this again, the WoW comments are ******ed. When you dog on WoW, you're just embarassing yourselves, TBH. WoW has shown the world what a majority of the MMORPG community wants. It's not 1999 anymore. People do not want to grind the way they do in Lineage II and did in games like EverQuest. If you want everyone who has an issue with this game to goto WoW then you pretty much want your game to die.
WoW has enough players, we don't.
And why do you think Lineage II is becoming more and more WoWified as they release updates. Certainly everyone on this forum is ignorant to the point where they don't see this? Tell them to go play WoW. Soon, you'll be playing it too. You'll just take longer to level than they will, and for what? Bad itemization, low player population, increasing bot population due to the grind factor, and hardly any factorable content?
/laughs
@Trensharo - Thanks for a well written post. I agree on all points.
@Kruken - "The only hard part about L2 is keeping up with the botters/ebayers legitly and having a chance at end game(high lvls). I gave up a long time ago trying to keep up and just play the way I want to and have fun. If a person wants to play L2 and dominate they will be in for a big suprise."
That was well said, and many suggest that the few legit players left in the game stay mostly due to the years invested in the game - that is they made real life sacrifices, but also made a network in L2 which is hard to break even when all their efforts are ruined by cheaters.
I dont like wow, i will never play it and also i dont agree with you.
So you're telling me that Territory Wars aren't a bastardized version of World of Warcraft Battleground.
Think Alterac Valley... Oh... Wait... You've never played WoW, so you really don't know what the **** you're talking about.
Okay then. I'll just ignore you and the verbal diarrhea that seeps from you posts...
Those who have played the other game can make more educated posts about what I have written. I doubt many of them will disagree, though, cause it's pretty obvious. I do not like unqualified retorts to my posts. Please have a clue before you cite disagreement.
A lot of things from WoW are being implemented in an attempt to leach players from that game. Everyone's doing it.
It's too late for Lineage II, IMO.
I think EverQuest now has more NA/EU subscribers than this game, and it's over twice the age of this one. Good game design and balance can go a long way.
Its really not that bad... Lineage has its problems but also its good sides. WoW has its problems too. Everything in that game went too elitist. Getting epics no matter how crappy has become cake. Yes raiding is the point of WoW but still. The devs nerf and buff the classes every patch. People whine on the forums every patch scared of their class getting nerfed. There are classes in WoW that pretty much suck compared to others. The game is very far from balanced.
Dont get me wrong. On first sight the game may seem casual friendly but if you want to play it competitively its far far harder than L2 in both grinding and time consuming ways. Its what i like about L2. No one is pushing you to do anything. You dont feel depressed because you cant find a decent guild to raid and get decent gear. You know its achievable. The game is much more relaxed and calm. Grinding xp doesnt really make it a hard game. It just takes a bit more time which is ok for me. I really dont mind it as long as i have something to do while leveling. Which i do.
And btw comments that "WoW is for stupid people" are a bit silly. So what ive played WoW for 3 years and im stupid? Is that it? L2 is really one of the easier MMO's to play at this point. Easy if we talk about gameplay. The game has other aspects that make it worth my while playing but we already talked about that. Lets not flame and compare because most of the people doing the comparing here have never played or played very little WoW. Just agree that both games are good and basta.
You have obviously never played end game WoW people spend 6 months+ grinding raids to get armor sets and items.
As for it being easy? yea kinda if you play with a good raid group that knows what there doing but I dont see it being that much easier then lineage 2
i disagree; people spend a long time raiding for gear because there is at least 3 different sets of gear you need to play the game with. your pve gear, your pvp gear, and your raid gear. show me two shamans in identical gear.
in lineage2 you get your choice: either light, heavy, or robe.
for everything. i can show you a million TH's in Draconic.
wow's levelling system is built on Quests that take you around the world to do menial tasks. Lineage2's levelling system is simpler than that - hunt mobs.
so how is wow easier than Lineage2? or how is Lineage2 harder?
simple. in lineage2 no instanced zone will be there to help you if wartags come along. in lineage2 the buff system can turn a lone player into god. show me such a class in wow. heres a clue: there arent any. why? cause everyone is that much OP in wow. and when everyone is special - no one is.
Grinding xp doesnt really make it a hard game. It just takes a bit more time which is ok for me. I really dont mind it as long as i have something to do while leveling. Which i do.
Well said, those claiming the game is hard or hardcore cause it is so time consuming to lvl up that most do it by bots use an utterly amazing argument. Confusing something that a monkey or a bot can do with hard, when the proper word is monoton, repetitive and so simple that a repeating bot program can do it almost as good is beyond stupid.
Then we have the other side of the argument that some smart posters have indicated. It's by most rational means, and especially for a new player, mindless to try to compete in a legit way ( that is to not use bots or ebay adena). And some then suggest they enjoy the calm atmosphere and visual design, and probably just chat some with friends in the game, this is the definition of softcore casual play.
Many claim that this softcore play is appealing in Lineage 2 cause they can still do something with their clan, while in games like WoW you have to meet very strict gear requirements and be able to do your job or you wipe the whole raid or ruin the attempted achievements ( immortal runs, etc). So in WoW it is easy to level up, but you need to keep up on both the gear and the skills, and often in serious pugs go through both an inspection and a link of achievements before you get a group invite.
Anyway, I really dislike how all other gaming communities bring up WoW when someone mentions something about their game. I guess it's natural because WoW got so huge subscriber numbers, but there is a bunch of other games out there, and some hidden gems. I was hoping L2 to be such a hidden gem, but it was not the case.
well, if you look at straight common day grind alone then yes, you can say it's easy and monotonious.
the problem starts when you take into account wars and open pvp and the fact that each death has serious consequences. if you don't have equips/buffs/skills then you are at a serious disadvantage. the higher you get the more things require you to compete first against players and then, only if you win, against mobs. in WoW you mostly don't have to compete against players. everything, besides few specific places is designed in a way to avoid direct competition. also, in WoW you can afford much more deaths/wipes than in L2.
that is, of course, for those who are not botting. those who are won't feel the consequences as harsh as rest.
for me, these harsh consequences and competition based design define L2, if you'd negate them (like some do by botting) all that is left is exactly a mindless grind and mindless PVP.
Actually in WoW most of the realms are PvP which means you can be killed everywhere by someone from the other faction. Ganking is one of the biggest problems in WoW. And ganking with no consequence for the one who ganks you. He's just in the mood to kill you, not let you do your quests. All you can do is log off and wait for him to be gone. In raiding yes you can wipe a lot, you dont loose exp. There is the thing tho that you must grind gold to afford raiding and repairing your gear. Gear in WoW has durability and on progress raids you spend tons of gold on repairs.
As i said earlier those two games are just not suited to be compared. They are too different on too many levels. Those of us who have played both know that. There are other games similar to L2.
Actually in WoW most of the realms are PvP which means you can be killed everywhere by someone from the other faction. Ganking is one of the biggest problems in WoW. And ganking with no consequence for the one who ganks you. He's just in the mood to kill you, not let you do your quests. All you can do is log off and wait for him to be gone. In raiding yes you can wipe a lot, you dont loose exp. There is the thing tho that you must grind gold to afford raiding and repairing your gear. Gear in WoW has durability and on progress raids you spend tons of gold on repairs.
As i said earlier those two games are just not suited to be compared. They are too different on too many levels. Those of us who have played both know that. There are other games similar to L2.yes, of course there are PVP servers with gankers in WoW, i've played some time there. but it's not same as in L2 where your whole enemy clan/alliance remembers all your clan's/alliance's xping spots and arranges gank patrols every few hours :P
i agree that those are very different games and that's exactly why i want L2 to remain different.
Yet ANOTHER post from a supposed player, with a forum date of 4/09 who says almost exactly the same thing as a host of other "new players".............<yawn>
For the thousandth time, I'm not disagreeing with the content. It's like explaining to a fish that water is wet.
But AGAIN, we have a new poster going on and on and on about how "L2 sucks" because of the grind and bots, bots, bots, bots....
So either this is yet another private server player/owner trying to criticize the official servers, a WoW fan trying to criticize L2 (which wouldn't seem particularly necessary--lol), or someone who would have us believe that in a month he encountered billions of bots and it's ruined the game for him.
That last one is just BS. Level a low toon on most servers and you won't see a bot until you hit the 40+ cata's.
I'm going with my first instinct--that this is another private server advocate pretending to be disgusted, just like all 5000 other posts like this we've seen. If I'm wrong? Meh--I'll defend myself simply by going with the odds. I can't begin to count these threads I've seen. I don't believe any of them are credible or true.
Why is LineageII still going strong after 5 years?
- Because it is a really great game
Why are there adena sellers in LineageII?
- Because so many (flawed) people play it and love it that the sellers can generate a LOT of money off the player base. In other words, because it is a really great game.
Why are there so many bots in LineageII?
- Because it is such a great game that many (flawed) players are willing to go to great lengths to reach end game.
Conclusion: LineageII is a wonderful game, the best ever. It isn't for everyone, if you want an easy game, go to WoW. Most of the flaws in L2 are caused by the player base segment who think cheating is OK. Same thing in the real world, many of the flaws in society are caused by the people who think cheating is OK.
One of the best things about L2 is that it allows people to be themselves without artificial constraints on their behavior...hence the cheating but also the thrill and excitement you will not find in any other game.
Yet ANOTHER post from a supposed player, with a forum date of 4/09 who says almost exactly the same thing as a host of other "new players".............<yawn>
For the thousandth time, I'm not disagreeing with the content. It's like explaining to a fish that water is wet.
But AGAIN, we have a new poster going on and on and on about how "L2 sucks" because of the grind and bots, bots, bots, bots....
So either this is yet another private server player/owner trying to criticize the official servers, a WoW fan trying to criticize L2 (which wouldn't seem particularly necessary--lol), or someone who would have us believe that in a month he encountered billions of bots and it's ruined the game for him.
That last one is just BS. Level a low toon on most servers and you won't see a bot until you hit the 40+ cata's.
I'm going with my first instinct--that this is another private server advocate pretending to be disgusted, just like all 5000 other posts like this we've seen. If I'm wrong? Meh--I'll defend myself simply by going with the odds. I can't begin to count these threads I've seen. I don't believe any of them are credible or true.
Waste of time.
+1
I can agree with all of the complaints, but I come here to catch up on things I missed if I was away from the game a couple weeks, new ideas, ect...and every single thread turns into another bot thread. Jeezus, like Drakkos, we get it...NC gets it...
I have had an account since Oct 2004, starting on Gustin. Despite this, my highest toon is a 62 BH, and I have two others barely outta the high 40's. I am not complaining, it is what it is...I simply dont have the time always to grind for hours. If I had to complain about anything, its the hyperinflation on the market. Despite all the years I played, I have no clue how you come up with the adena neccessary to upgrade armor and weapons past C grade, especially with the onset of the "common items". 150,000,000 for a A grade Tallum set? Really??? And I cant unload my mats for any decent prices at the same time??? But in reality I am not complaining, I still like the game as is. My BH will stay in his BW set until whenever I can afford it, or the market comes down to a reasonable level. In my opinion, its not solely the bots and farmers, but the higher lvl clans and ppl that keep lower levels down through the market...just like the real world.
PS...and bots/farmers can have positive effects for us lowly toons. I know of at least two spots where I can go to pick up a quick 300,000 to 500,000 adena, plus mats. ;-)
No, its not a perfect situation...but there you go.
And i just logged in to check Giran...guy wants 800,000,000 for a Majestic light set (albiet OE'd to +6)
Lets keep the treads specific to help us less active keep informed.
Btw can anyone tell me whats the normal price of the BW Heavy set items? I bought the breastplate for 19kk and now im looking at prices for helm of nearly 40kk(not enchanted). Can anyone tell me the average price of each piece? It would be really helpfull.
Norseman, you obviously met the wrong people ingame. They told you bots, cheats and ebay were necessary. And you repeat what they say "xp is monotonous and boring", while you prove the contrary by poling.
And that the whole point of the game. L2 isn't about how fast you get to high-end content, seeing what's before as a task, a work. You can enjoy the middle game simply by making parties with friends. You try different things than the regular grind, you laugh, etc. That's what's fun.
If you're blocked at **** stage on XP, you'll go solo with you dualboxes because that's the most efficient. You'll avoid anybody and bots or not, other players are just taking your spot. But who cares about XP? Yes it's long, but when you're with friends it's fast. If you're with the wrong persons, they'll tell you to ebay because they failed on that point before you.
That's what achievement is about : a journey, not getting the stuff.
Almost everything can be sold. It doesn't encourage ebay, it encourages diversity of playstyles. You can get epic jewels even if you aren't in the dominating ally or the "sides", ie the big PvPers with a lot of cheaters in them. If you prefer to get things another way you can. And no, I don't mean bot, duh!
About the WoWization of L2 : I think I said already alot of times that I don't like the instances. It's more comfortable, but it isn't good for social interaction (friendly or not) and it turns the game into the same selfish systems you see in every other games.
And why is L2 turning into WoW? Because WoW is popular certainly.
Why is it popular? Certainly not because it's better, as Trensharo said. Popular choice doesn't equal best choice. The reason of the popularity is it answers to today's demand : people tends to want everything the fastest way possible. It's not just gaming. Just go to an artschool and you'll see a huge mass of students who want to learn how to draw like Neo learns how to fight in the Matrix. And they'll accuse the teachers of incompetence if skill doesn't fall from the sky the moment they start the course. Lots of procrastinators and schizoids IMO.
WoW gives them exactly what they want. Ebay too. Doesn't it mean it's the right direction?
In L2 you have to build your play. It's not work, it's pleasant, and it's fortunate it takes time and you can't just come in, serve yourself in gear, kill a few thing and then throw it like a tissue.
And I have a secret for you : you can accuse people here to be botters all you want, the people here defending the grind can't be the botters. Botters are people like you who don't see the point in it. That's why this discussion is sterile, you insult those who contradict you and bless those who give you matter to back up your moaning. And having an opinion doesn't make you right, especially when you don't understand the opposite argument.
You know, fanboys or hateboys... it's the same. Don't join any of them.
Hmm by the way... if you fear boredom that much, you must be seeking pleasure at an increasing rate. What do you expect in life to give you more and more pleasure everyday?
Yes L2 is a bit boring, it makes the good moments better. Yes you can actually enjoy getting your S-Grade weapon recipe in reward for the 1000 quest items you farmed in IT. But probably not if you ebayed the weapon already. So of course L2 becomes drier. The world becomes bigger, yet you find less in it... then you have a problem, not the world.
Lineage II is far from being the best game ever. It lacks content, it could have useful quests, it could have a better way of helping casual players (although it's a lot better now), it has a beautiful lore but it's not explored by the game devs...
But, all in all, it has things that keep people around (or make them come back). It has beautiful graphics, skills have beautiful animations, the armors have perhaps the best look in all games I've played so far (none can be this detailed and magnificent like some of L2's armors and weapons), there's the PvP aspect that some people enjoy (I'm not one of them), but I believe it's the player-driven environment that makes Lineage 2 so successful. The fact that almost everything in-game is dictated by players, it creates a true online virtual community...
... Pity that the mentality of the players that are supposed to run that aspect of the game is so low that it ruins the ONLY thing Lineage II would truly be superior in when compared to other games. I doubt any other game is so player-dictated like Lineage II, and although the idea behind it is awesome and I'm pretty sure it works wonderfully in Korea, it fails big time on NA because of the mentality of those players. Cheating, botting just to get to end-game ruins the game's purpose.
Now that said, whoever says that they enjoy clicking one button repeatedly to kill 100 mobs in order to get 0.01% (or even less than that if you're higher than 76) needs to rethink their idea of "fun". I can understand grind "tolerance", but that to say that Lineage II's end-game grind is fun... that's a rather weird concept of "fun" to me... And that's when the players on this side of the world resort to botting and cheating. They want to go to the "fun" part without having to go through the endlessly mindnumbing grind. It's the same reason why those people will go looking for cheat codes on an FPS so they can have unlimited ammo, or things like that. I don't endorse that, by the way, each one of my 76 levels (and then the 14 on sub) were done legitly and clicking every single skill of mine. But unfortunately that's not the mentality of most people.
I have bittersweet feelings about Lineage II right now. I loved this game so much for three years, and I had high hopes that things would get better and that they would keep me eager to log in, but they're not. And I've switched my games and I'm having the time of my life in a game everyone says it's crappy (Age of Conan), but that has been proving 1000x more fun that Lineage II has been in quite a while now.
I guess to each their own. I might come back, I never truly say goodbye to L2, but right now, I say the chances are slim.
I have been playing MMOs for more than 7 yrs now, and in search for a new game after the failure of both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online I decided to go back in history and try out Lineage 2.
That first sentence is quite sad. Qualifying a game as a "failure" just because you didn't like it (I guess) is enough for me to say that your opinion is worthless or at least exagerated.
I tried both of them, they didn't convince me, which doesn't mean they are failures, it just means that they didn't fit my way of playing. Plus AoC has changed a lot and because of people like you Aoc still has un unfair reputation.
You act the same about Lineage 2, I guess you didn't like it or you only saw its bad aspects (bots, grind fest like you say..), so you declare that it's a bad game (a failure?) too?
Lineage 2 is not perfect, and you're right about some things, but it doesn't mean that it's the most horrible online game ever done... All have their flaws.
Someone can answer my question pls? I see there are a lot of people with big knowledge of this game here :) Its really not that big off topic :p
Maybe if you open a thread on Player QUestions, people will answer it. This isn't the place for that question, really.
And back in topic, I really think that AoC made a bad move in launching too soon. Had it been launched as it is today, I bet more than half of the players that started playing it in Beta would have stayed.
The game's hardly a failure. It was a "disappointment" to some players because they went there when things were crappy. I bet most of them would be surprised if they went back now.
I am still to find a bad thing about that game (although I am only lvl 26 for now). The lore is very interesting, the game looks ASTONISHING (at least on DX10), the community on the RP-PvE server is awesome (not the same on the PvP servers, bunch of immature kids there) and the game-play is rather challenging. You can't win by smashing F1 every second, and depending on the class, you really need to think your approach. All mobs are aggro there, so if you go in without thinking, it will result in death for sure.
All in all, AoC has surprised me in more ways than one. I've subscribed for this month already and for now, that's where I'll be staying.
Someone can answer my question pls? I see there are a lot of people with big knowledge of this game here :) Its really not that big off topic :p
Depends on your server. I am now on Phoenix.
On average a BW heavy goes for:
BW Boots (Heavy): 3 mil
BW Breastplate: 12 mil
BW Gaiters: 6 mil
BW Gloves (Heavy): 4.5 mil
BW Helmet: 18 mil
So look to spend anywhere between 40 to 50 mil for the set. Those are base prices, not including enchanted items, which when you start getting into OE get quite expensive.
If in a clan that can help you with mats, you can always try and create them, or give/lend them outright. In my experience, that doesnt happen too often, but I have never been in a clan over lvl 6.
Best of luck...those are attainable with work. Good luck on A or S grade however...prices truly in the stratosphere, even if you sell your BW set, you'll be millions short. But mine are doing me just fine :-) so you'll be good for awhile if just entering B grade.
I dont PvP however...so it all depends on your playstyle.
Valerie, i think you should stick to the topic and thats not AoC. AoC was a crappy game in which the first 20 levels had decent content, the enginge was buggy, unstable and too heavy and overall didnt felt very massive. Most of the stuff took them tons of time to implement and little to not effect on the game. At launch the game was not even beta worthy. Tons of quests werent working at all, lack of any content in some big level gaps. Game crashing after few zoning. 80% of the gear had incorrect and ******ed stats. Wrong looks, crappy looks even for high level raiding gear. I doubt they fixed half of their issues even now.
I think you should post in the off topic forum if you want to discuss AoC.
valerie when u hit lvl 60 in conan and the quests end you'll proly unistall the game like everyone else is doing... remember me lvl 60 is a treshold!!
Thats not true, there are plenty of quests to keep you occupied from 1-80. The problem comes with after a month of playing at end game you run out of things to do. I was RPing, but since it was more of a sit around a table an ERP atmosphere it wasnt very fun after a while. No RP events in the game world besides taverns etc. It actually has turned into a GREAT game, up until end game anyway.
Valerie, i think you should stick to the topic and thats not AoC. AoC was a crappy game in which the first 20 levels had decent content, the enginge was buggy, unstable and too heavy and overall didnt felt very massive. Most of the stuff took them tons of time to implement and little to not effect on the game. At launch the game was not even beta worthy. Tons of quests werent working at all, lack of any content in some big level gaps. Game crashing after few zoning. 80% of the gear had incorrect and ******ed stats. Wrong looks, crappy looks even for high level raiding gear. I doubt they fixed half of their issues even now.
I think you should post in the off topic forum if you want to discuss AoC.
Edit: Thank you very much SFC!
No dear, I'm not off-topic, since we ARE talking about other games in this thread. You however, were completely out of topic and you would have gotten more attention opening a new topic to ask about your doubt.
And let me ask you, when did you play AoC? At the beginning of the game? You should give it a try now and see how much has changed. Game has crashed ONCE in two weeks and I'm using the DX10 client. All the quests works so far, and I see no high-levels complaining about quests that don't work. The game world looks BEAUTIFUL, the actual gaming world looks better than Lineage 2, I can't see how anyone says that they look wrongly. The armors are a bit pale compared to L2, but I do think L2 has the best looking armor sets in all MMO's and that's hard to beat anyway.
Unfortunately I'm starting to think that most of the "AoC is crappy" comments come from people that played during the beta and never bothered giving it a try again. I'm currently on an RP server that you bump into RP anytime you're in town, or even in the hunting areas, a mature community that doesn't only play the game to ERP. There's the occasional PvP kiddie but they're a minority on Hyrkania, the EU PvE-RP server. Whenever I read the "AoC is Crappy" reasons, I feel like I'm playing a different game from what you people describe.
As for L2? It was my first true MMO love, and as all "first loves", it's hard to forget, so I keep on hoping that it'll get better. I'll keep on following the progress, but I see it grim right now.
Back at launch the game was pathetic. Lack of content, crappy engine, nerfed classes. But to be honest i was capable of coping with all this crap if it wasnt for the engine problems. Firstly the textures were clunky, switching from low to high, bugging all the time eventho they were set at high. Secondly i am running on 2GB Ram and it would seem that thats not enough even for DX9. After a few zonings you loose your map completely. It turns grey. Then after a few more minutes your game crashes. On a 8800GT and a C2D E6400 the framerates were incredibly low on DX9 graphics and tbh the graphics were not that impressive. Patch after patch the issues stayed. Even the people running 4-8GB Ram on Vista were getting crashes after a 3+ hours game session. I should also mention that some classes like Priest of Mitra were dominating everything back then. Soloing 10 mobs at once, while others were struggling to solo 2 and were barely leveling.
Still im really not ready to upgrade my pc just to be able to beta test their little game. It had great potential. I was playing on a RP realm myself and i saw the potential myself but the engine implementation is awful. I know of no other MMO that requires you to run on a SLI 280GTX just to be able to play the game at highest graphics and higher resolution.
I have a 9800GTX+ and I run the game in all high graphics and the highest resolution my monitor allows me to. DirectX 10, no issues whatsoever, most people run with DirectX 9 and at least those I met in game haven't had issues. I had one crash in two weeks. L2 would crash at least once a day sometimes. Gracia Final was crashing twice, sometimes three times a day when it first was launched on the PTS (I hope they fixed that).
You don't want to test it again, and no one will force you to. But saying a game is crappy because you played a broken beta a year ago, when the game has actually improved more than 100%, and sustaining that the game is still crappy when it's not that crappy at all, is simply wrong. And that's the mentality of most people that come to say that AoC is crappy, I'm noticing that now. Those that have tried it now and didn't like it tend to say: "The game is interesting, just not for me".
The same goes for L2, on that matter. Saying that the game completely sucks when you play for a month, soloing all the time and without access to the fun parts of the game, is wrong as well. Loving a game is a good thing, and I endorse that, but loving it so much to the point of starting to ignore its bad qualities and "con****" all the good things found in other games just because L2 doesn't have them doesn't provide a good, objective view on things.
Thats basically what it boiled down to. I was actually on the RP-PVP server in NA for a LONG time and the rp was fun at first. Then the server merges and transfers happened and the coommunity turned into a cespool of PvP kiddies. RP still exists, however it just isnt the same as there are very very few world events anymore, and those that do RP have become clique oriented and will hardly ackowledge you if they dont know who you are (tried it on an alt once). Thats the main reason I left is that it had gotten stale for me. Thankfully you are on what sounds to be a good RP server and that will keep the game alive for you long after the end game content is exhausted :) .
The game is around 5 yrs old and has a very nice selection of classes and subclasses which many new releases could learn a lot from, but besides that it is truely a sad story. I will not bother to complain further about the poor visual customization and the horrific click to move technology( no jumping, getting stuck on rocks, corners, etc - you don't feel like you are in real control of your character), the awful user interface, and other pretty obvious faults.
They are not faults at all. This is exactly the way the game was made and it works very well. It's like reading Shakespeare's first folio and complaining that the english is all wrong.
The visual customization was always sort of poor but then compare it to the games that were out before it then it wasn't soooo bad. The point to click thing was a regional thing and it works very well. Since I remember reading that the original Lineage was influenced by Diablo (point and click and you can't jump) and L2 is just another in the series but more up to date ) then you can see where its origins come from.
As far as complaints of cheaters, this has been going on since the start. The game is still around and offers something rather unique in this gaming market.
Though I can appreciate you wanting to "warn" players, L2 has a fairly known reputation but good players still can find the merit in playing the game.
Lastly... why is it that this is letting me post? I don't have a sub.
I have a 9800GTX+ and I run the game in all high graphics and the highest resolution my monitor allows me to. DirectX 10, no issues whatsoever, most people run with DirectX 9 and at least those I met in game haven't had issues. I had one crash in two weeks. L2 would crash at least once a day sometimes. Gracia Final was crashing twice, sometimes three times a day when it first was launched on the PTS (I hope they fixed that).
You don't want to test it again, and no one will force you to. But saying a game is crappy because you played a broken beta a year ago, when the game has actually improved more than 100%, and sustaining that the game is still crappy when it's not that crappy at all, is simply wrong. And that's the mentality of most people that come to say that AoC is crappy, I'm noticing that now. Those that have tried it now and didn't like it tend to say: "The game is interesting, just not for me".
The same goes for L2, on that matter. Saying that the game completely sucks when you play for a month, soloing all the time and without access to the fun parts of the game, is wrong as well. Loving a game is a good thing, and I endorse that, but loving it so much to the point of starting to ignore its bad qualities and "con****" all the good things found in other games just because L2 doesn't have them doesn't provide a good, objective view on things.
Its just very hard for me to believe it after all ive been trough in AoC. If you have been in my place you would have said the same thing. There is a reason ppl are flaming AoC and thats the money we paid to alfa test that game. Im still very ****** about that.
I must admit tho that the game probably deserves a second chance but i really dont know if im ever going to give it. Its just very hard to go down that road again. Not to mention that a lot of great MMO's are coming out soon. The game may be great now but i dont have the time to try it. Maybe at some point in the future i will resubscribe and see. There is potential in that game.
Well it's more popular in korea also because they don't have the insane grind that we do, that's been discussed a few times though.
and seriously LMAO at the all the people glorifying themselves as playing an elite hardcore MMO called lineage 2 it's not hard give it up, you just probaly spend to much time on here and it makes you feel better
Just got an e-mail that my L2 forum mailbox was filled. I didn't think I could log in and before you know it I just hit the "quote" button.
It was like riding a bike but not as healthy. ; )
I wanted to quit too! My subscription ended EXACTLY the day they decided to extend every inactive subscription unitl May 11th. Just my luck, I swear it's a conspiracy!
Thresharo, i played wow for 1 year. And hey, if you people are all talking bad about lt..why are you still here? O.o'
Because I can afford to play multiple games (have the time and money). I don't need to "leave" any game. I just take a break and play another one.
I haev friends in all of these games, so I play them still.
Thresharo, i played wow for 1 year. And hey, if you people are all talking bad about lt..why are you still here? O.o'
Because i am crazy and maso, and also because i like my clannie and friends in luna, and because before lineage 2, i have left guild war, because some problems with my old guilds, i remember this time, i had good opinion about ncsoft, because my good experience with guild war, i didnt knew than lineage 2 = cheatland, i thought than lineage 2 is like guild war :( and if i have choose lineage 2 and not wow, it is because i hate wow players, because they hate guild war player, wow have bad graphic and wow have stole my friends in guild war :(
I admit than if have knew what i know now, i never left guild war and joined lineage :(
To the OP, and anyone else thinking like him. Let me clarify some things.
This game is 5 years old. For 5 years there have been bots, for 5 years the same program has been used, and within those 5 years many more have been made. By this time complaining about bots is going to do nothing! I know why your angry, I was too, for the first 2 - 3 years the game was out. Then I realized it really isn't going to change! (Sorry to the GMs or whoever, if this violates anything this is just my opinion). If this game lasts 5 more years there is still going to be bots!
So, with that being said, you have to play this game for reasons besides bots! Why else do you like the game? Play it for that! Sure it may feel like it makes unfair competition, because, well it does. Yeah it would be a way awesome game if people didn't shoot right to high level right away, when you could relish some lower end content. When having top gear and the "best" character was not the goal, but building a strong big clan of diverse people, designing tactics, zerging the hell our of raidbosses, HAVING FUN! Where everyone was poor and having the best gear meant you were the leader of a large successful clan. Being 75 and still wearing B grade would be alright because everyone else is. Having no level 80 at this grind level because nobody could really do it except for maybe one or two people on a server, who are just insane!
That would be fun. But bots for leveling and farming, and pro-farmers with RMT ruin that make believe reality. Most people really only do care about max level and max gear. That's why most people play, so that when they reach this they can destroy loads of people who have not reached this yet, or never will.
That's Lineage II though! That's how it has been and how it will always be! Even if I, you, your girlfriends mom, wishes it otherwise. You can play to party with some friends once and a while, have some fun. PLAY a game! Or you can cheat, and pretend your winning something that can never be won. In the end the choice is yours, and those who stay find something they enjoy, those who leave find something else. There is never going to be a game that the whole world loves or understands...
@first post: your right. and thats why smart people (including me) play on freeshards. no bots, no adena seller, no real money, real partys and not 4,5 or 6 boxers.
@first post: your right. and thats why smart people (including me) play on freeshards. no bots, no adena seller, no real money, real partys and not 4,5 or 6 boxers.
bye
bye bye! we wont miss you :) Go back to the server you came from. freeshards full of bugs. Full of stuff which dont work or even didnt got implemented. Where lag is your best friend. Where gms are so corrupt and even help friends or clans they play on. Gms who only care about the donation and wipe the server if and how often they want or just close the server. Where cheaters are like feeling at home using exploits for many advantages. Where all is so much costum that is doesnt look more like L2. Where you only learn to to spam buttons even not knowing what they are doing. Where everybody box buffers and even dont know how to play a healer or buffer class. Where players dontate for +25 armor and weapons and jewerly ect and than claim they are the best players on the server. Where are all classes unbalanced and crazy overpowered and also bugged with missing skills. Where mana pota are spamable which makes mages even more overpowered. Where updates and fixes never happen since gms dont know how to do maintencances on the server....
And the list goes on and on..i could write here pages of the illegal servers...
Well...gogogo shu shu! gogo! Why are you still here?
Why do people get so angry when people bash the game?
Good games don't need the players to make excuses for it. The gaming experience speaks for itself.
I agree.
Just as much as I wonder why people who are angry go and bash these games on their official forums. It isn't going to make a difference or stop someone from playing, if someone likes the game or is genuinely curious about it, they play it and decide on their gaming experience. If someone hates it they should quit without what others say and stop wasting their time posting here. (This obviously does not pertain to constructive criticisms of the game, but we all know where the bot posts go.)
People bash the game on the Official Forums in hopes that the Developers and Community Coordinators (lol, we don't have one) take note and use these qualms as a way to improve the game.
There were way too many people who left for these reasons. It's been happening for years. You'd think that if they were listening, things would have changed by now.
Guess not...
The fact that thousands of people have simply quit the game for this reasons speaks for itself, and that is what I meant by the gaming experience.
I had to pull around bots in a catacomb today becuase they were everywhere. Do you know how hard it is to pull catacomb rooms when there is someone meleeing a Social Agro MOB in the middle of it?
bye bye! we wont miss you :) Go back to the server you came from. freeshards full of bugs. Full of stuff which dont work or even didnt got implemented. Where lag is your best friend. Where gms are so corrupt and even help friends or clans they play on. Gms who only care about the donation and wipe the server if and how often they want or just close the server. Where cheaters are like feeling at home using exploits for many advantages. Where all is so much costum that is doesnt look more like L2. Where you only learn to to spam buttons even not knowing what they are doing. Where everybody box buffers and even dont know how to play a healer or buffer class. Where players dontate for +25 armor and weapons and jewerly ect and than claim they are the best players on the server. Where are all classes unbalanced and crazy overpowered and also bugged with missing skills. Where mana pota are spamable which makes mages even more overpowered. Where updates and fixes never happen since gms dont know how to do maintencances on the server....
And the list goes on and on..i could write here pages of the illegal servers...
Well...gogogo shu shu! gogo! Why are you still here?
I totally agree with you, there are many servers with lags, donations, exploits etc.
But you have to search for the good servers, if you take a look at the top100 sites, there are only l2j or x50000 crappy servers. So dont talk like this about fs server when you dont have any idea whats going on, I could tell you more then 5 very good servers without any donations or any strange things that kills l2. And trust me, its good to play on a server where 99% legit people are.
There is a reason ppl are flaming AoC and thats the money we paid to alfa test that game. Im still very ****** about that.
If you spent some money to play the Alpha test then you should have been aware of the fact that it was an... ALPHA test ;)
So many bugs have been fixed now. You say you don't want to afford a great GPU to play a game that won't run smoothly on your computer, but if you searched a bit on the web you would have seen that it's a problem that has been fixed a long time ago.
You can't say a game is a failure because its alpha/beta tests were full of flaws... The thing is, people tend more to post on forums to criticise, but when a player is happy he'll rather spend time playing rather than posting on a forum ; maybe that's why you still have the impression that AoC is a kind of failure. I can only advise you to give AoC a new try since it has a free trial now. :)
I guess the same rule applies to L2, people will tend to post more to whine rather than saying that they are completely satisfied with the game... I guess it's natural, even if it's unfair to the game :D
If you spent some money to play the Alpha test then you should have been aware of the fact that it was an... ALPHA test ;)
So many bugs have been fixed now. You say you don't want to afford a great GPU to play a game that won't run smoothly on your computer, but if you searched a bit on the web you would have seen that it's a problem that has been fixed a long time ago.
You can't say a game is a failure because its alpha/beta tests were full of flaws... The thing is, people tend more to post on forums to criticise, but when a player is happy he'll rather spend time playing rather than posting on a forum ; maybe that's why you still have the impression that AoC is a kind of failure. I can only advise you to give AoC a new try since it has a free trial now. :)
I guess the same rule applies to L2, people will tend to post more to whine rather than saying that they are completely satisfied with the game... I guess it's natural, even if it's unfair to the game :D
Forgive my poor english. Its not native for me, nor have i ever learned it the proper way.
You didnt really understand what i was talking about. I started playing the game at its official release. The quality of that official released game was not even worthy to call beta, thats why i call it alpha. Back when the game was in alpha and beta, testing was free. When they released the game, they said: "This is it! This is the game! Now pay and play!" And we paid just to find out that we got f-ed. The same bugs that were on the beta were there. Bugs that have been discussed and never got fixed.
So have you played back then? Back when i lost my precious time playing a game that was released way too early? If you havent then you dont know what im talking about and why im having a hard time believing things have changed. And even if things changed now so what? I know what the game should have looked like back then. It was clear that without the crappyness of the engine, the lack of content, the poor itemisation, the bugged quests, the unbalanced classes, the bugged and worthless proffesions the game would have been great. Im just really not in the mood of playing that game right now. Maybe after the summer i could subscribe for a month.
If you spent some money to play the Alpha test then you should have been aware of the fact that it was an... ALPHA test ;)
So many bugs have been fixed now. You say you don't want to afford a great GPU to play a game that won't run smoothly on your computer, but if you searched a bit on the web you would have seen that it's a problem that has been fixed a long time ago.
You can't say a game is a failure because its alpha/beta tests were full of flaws... The thing is, people tend more to post on forums to criticise, but when a player is happy he'll rather spend time playing rather than posting on a forum ; maybe that's why you still have the impression that AoC is a kind of failure. I can only advise you to give AoC a new try since it has a free trial now. :)
I guess the same rule applies to L2, people will tend to post more to whine rather than saying that they are completely satisfied with the game... I guess it's natural, even if it's unfair to the game :D
Oh my! Someone that isn't bashing AoC on a forum! Miracle ;)
But see, that's my point exactly. I never bothered trying AoC before partially because I was still satisfied with L2, and partially because of people that would go EVERYWHERE saying the game was crappy. When I saw the 13GB trial, I couldn't install it cause I needed a new HD for that. So I installed EVERYTHING first (WAR, DDO, SWG, EQII, any game that was offering a trial), and once I started the AoC trial, I was already expecting to hate it.
And what a surprise. Not only I'm loving it, but it's also giving me the kind of fun I haven't had in L2 for quite a while. The game's far from being a failure, and far from being crappy. It's not perfect, but I doubt any MMO is. It's a pity that most players kept the mentality of the beta, or I bet most of them would have stayed.
The problem when it comes to L2 is that most new people come here with the mentality they've acquired from other games, and L2 has NOTHING to do with the other games. I'm yet to know one game that is similar to L2. The impact is huge here. That's why a lot of newbies come and give up after a few weeks, because they're simply not used to it.
And it's a pity, because L2 could be the best game in the market, and even dethrone WoW if they wanted to pay attention to some small stuff to make it better.
Oh my! Someone that isn't bashing AoC on a forum! Miracle ;)
But see, that's my point exactly. I never bothered trying AoC before partially because I was still satisfied with L2, and partially because of people that would go EVERYWHERE saying the game was crappy. When I saw the 13GB trial, I couldn't install it cause I needed a new HD for that. So I installed EVERYTHING first (WAR, DDO, SWG, EQII, any game that was offering a trial), and once I started the AoC trial, I was already expecting to hate it.
And what a surprise. Not only I'm loving it, but it's also giving me the kind of fun I haven't had in L2 for quite a while. The game's far from being a failure, and far from being crappy. It's not perfect, but I doubt any MMO is. It's a pity that most players kept the mentality of the beta, or I bet most of them would have stayed.
The problem when it comes to L2 is that most new people come here with the mentality they've acquired from other games, and L2 has NOTHING to do with the other games. I'm yet to know one game that is similar to L2. The impact is huge here. That's why a lot of newbies come and give up after a few weeks, because they're simply not used to it.
And it's a pity, because L2 could be the best game in the market, and even dethrone WoW if they wanted to pay attention to some small stuff to make it better.
+1
I started playing AoC when it was released. Big failure at that time. But I kept my account active and now and then I log. It's pretty good now. Enjoying every minute I play.
Won't give up on L2 tho... I still hope they can fix this game one day...
AoC is not bad, but they have technicall issues, i won the x-max event there have acc full of mounts and other stuff, but i get DC'ed too often sometimes cant even login
+1
I started playing AoC when it was released. Big failure at that time. But I kept my account active and now and then I log. It's pretty good now. Enjoying every minute I play.
Won't give up on L2 tho... I still hope they can fix this game one day...
I just don't see much on L2 right now for me. Maybe in the future I will, and I'll keep on coming to these forums to see how things are going (too bad I won't be able to post, I'll miss that), but right now... there's nothing really to keep me around. Friends? There's MSN and X-Fire for that, and I have them all there, for free. I'm not going to be paying 30 bucks a month just to chat with friends.
And I think the guys at FunCom made a huge mistake launching AoC too soon. They lost the opportunity of making it the game to dethrone WoW. But oh well.
Back in topic, new players shouldn't come with the mentality of WoW or games like that to L2. They should clean their minds and take L2 as the game it is: a completely different game from anything else in the market, with its pros and cons. Trying to compare L2 to any other game will result in failure and disappointment.
Definitely cant compare many MMO's....my 11 year old daughter played WoW and went from 1-70 in several months (without having played any other mmo before), got bored and quit. I have been playing L2 for 5 years now and am only 79/79/66. Any WoW player coming to this game will be in for a shock. To me easy=boring and hard=rewarding. While I'm not as high level as people who have botted to 82+ in 1/4th the time I have been playing, I can still hold my own against them and I think deep down I enjoy the game much more than they do. If I didnt I wouldnt be playing...
L2 is far from perfect, it certainly does have its flaws. Still it's a game that has been extremely refined since its inception. The bots and the ebayers are always going to be in any mmo, it's pretty much a given. Some MMO's have worked to combat it through game design or with gm's, but it's never going to go away because people will always be looking for an easy way.
What L2 does right:
Ability to solo, there are mmo's out there that don't really allow you to solo in any form(FFXI for example). Now when I say solo, I mean it's just 1 account, I don't consider multi-boxing solo'ing. There are tools that let you do this such as herbs, pots and pets. I've reached lvl 78 and most of my exp came from solo'ing. It's not easy and you really have to be aware of your surroundings to make sure you don't over exert yourself. It also keeps the grind interesting. When I party with full buffs and healers and such it almost gets to the point where I tune out the game and spend more time chatting with the party. Hellbound thankfully reinvigorated party play for me because there even with a great party setup you really need to be paying attention.
Economy: Being able to collect items at low levels that will still be relevant to higher level players and able to sell them allows for many opportunities to make profit from beginning to end game. The economy in itself is an entire game and is fascinating to play.
Lore: L2 actually has some impressive lore and characters within it, the all powerful gods have human flaws that are causing a lot of the troubles in the world today. For instance the whole reason there are catacombs is because Kain slept with his daughter Shilen, knocked her up, his wife Einhasad found out, she got ******, Kain did nothing to protect his daughter, she got banished and created elemental dragons and started a war with the gods. So now there monsters everywhere because Kain couldn't keep his pants on.
Now for things I don't like.
Point and click movement: I like FPS controls, point and click makes me feel detached from my character. Plus the pathfinding algorithm in the game isn't the greatest. Also I sometimes click on things in front of the camera that don't get drawn due to standard rendering algorithms but still count as clickable areas to move to and I start moving back when I mean to move forward.
PvP system: Never been a big fan of pvp systems in games that don't have even playing fields(i.e. high levels beating the crap out of low levels). On top of that the combat for pvp feels incredibily stiff and for melee classes when you mean to use a skill you end up running to your targets and start ******* their legs instead of executing the skill. So pvp for the most part gets relegated to ranged classes, which makes sense I mean when's the last infantry division you saw wielding swords and pikes. There's a reason we use guns and other ranged weapons today. The open pvp system...while I'm not against it has proven time and again to be major failure for most mmo's due to rampant ganking, discouraging players from participating in it or the game altogether. UO had it and the only reason the playerbase put up with it was because the rest of the game was so **** good to them it was worth putting up with those people. L2...not so much. The moving to a battleground-like systems over last several updates has helped(Grand Olymipad, Underground Coliseum, Kratei's Cube, removal of xp loss from castle and fort sieges, haven't been able to try any of the part 3 content due to my gaming computer not working :( )
Boring raid bosses: most of the raid bosses are just glorified pack mobs, no real challenge in fighting them, you just need enough fire power and healing. The epic raid bosses look interesting but due to server politics most of this content is inaccessible, which must be really disheartening to the designers who spent all that time and effort on something in the game that most of the people aren't going to see.
Old dead content: This pretty much happens in every mmo as its playerbase stops growing and moves to the higher end levels. We don't use most of the land mass in the game anymore because we're all too high level for it to mean anything. On top of that the new leveling system means any new characters we make get through that content extremely quick. What I hope they do is since they're adding more instance content is that they do what they did with the Palikas and put it on a party scale and retool them for tiered level ranges similar to the kamalokas. I would really like to see Abandoned Camp have a story you play through with a party and see ol mahum raid boss with a dramatic entrance at the end...Just a wish.
Now this brings us to the instancing argument, some love it, some hate it. Instancing works if you do it right, the L2 team is actually doing a pretty good job with it so far. The thing I like about instancing is it can be used to create short but intensely challenging content. A lot of people don't like it because it means you don't have the random sense of danger from people coming in to kill you. However the other side to that is that you have a cap on the number of people who you can bring into an encounter and you can't receive any outside help whatsoever, so you have to really work on being prepared. Others don't like it because if you get a good team it makes getting equipment too easy. The L2 team actually has done a good job in steming that from what they offer now. The 1 day re-entrance penalty, the inconsistent good rewards(i.e. not getting crafting parts or full drops every run), so they have a good handle on that. The lack of meeting random people inside the instance is another argument. However due to the small time commitment of them it ends up like forming a low level raiding party, so you still meet new people because the people have the time to do a quick kama versus a long exp party. And seeing a boss go down with a team effort is actually the only encouragement some people need to even accept the party invite.
So all in all I think L2 is on the right track, it isn't perfect, but it's nowhere near as bad as some people make it out to be.
Guys. Stop trying to tell that black is white and otherwise.
On Teon there is little life besides botting. 90% of population botted. 100% of 82+ people are botted.
You really expect to grind to 82-84 w/o botting? You know how much time it takes.
You really expect that active PvP clan is not botting and sit 10h\day exping?
You really think that there are no L2control/L2sniffer/L2radar etc etc etc?
Hide, auto-target, auto spam GCP?
Stop trying to make fools of yourselfs.
If petibras botted, and in that I trust 100%, gl to her IRL.
But the clan must not suffer.
If one CL is an idiot, 150 ppl must not suffer from her stupidity.
NCsoft, change leadership!
I think that is close to the truth, and illustrates my point with a warning to new players. If you are not willing to bot or ebay adena you should simply avoid this game. It's simply too late to get in now in a legit way.
We could discuss a lot of other matters close to this issue:
1) Why do the GMs randomly ban some people while you can just log in for 20 min and take a run and see bots going on and on without getting banned ? Are there some other reasons why GMs ban certain bot users ? They don't like certain clans ? They have links to certain players and are corrupts ? A lot of questions like this can be raised and discussed, although mostly hypotetical, some of them are truely valid. However, it's not much the community can do besides warn in the gaming community at large towards NCsoft as a developer if they are not able to up their game.
2) Why bother to warn about something that is old news in an old game like L2 ? There is just a handful of good MMOs out there, and some old ones like L2 still attract players like me trying to find a new good game, but in the case of L2 I didn't find what I looked for as my posts in this thread outline. Posts like this makes it easier to decide on which games to try out.
3) As a curiosity Age of Conan has gotten some attention here, and it has been discussed if a statement I made that the game was a failure was only due to the fact that I didn't like it. The market capitalization - that is the value of funcom which produced AoC - dropped with close to 90% as a result of the failed expectations to the launch. This fact speaks for itself as Funcom had planted lies about the game pre-launch, and released an unfinished product which had only the starting area ( tortage island) somewhat finished to further decieve game reviewers who only played in the starting area, and also to try to get some players to sign up for a long term subscribtion.
Anyway, it's some interesting posts in this thread, and it shows that L2 could still have some potential if changes were made to the staff in charge of the game.
You guys are always whining about bots and how they destroy the game but the fact is that you dont like the game or that u cant play it. Of course bots can be annyoing but if you like a game thats not what it kills. If you get bored or simply doesnt like mmorpgs anymore then simply dont play AND DONT KEEP OTHERS FROM PLAYING. I've played every "big" mmo and a lot of free mmorpgs but in the years i just lost interest in them. I still play a little l2 because i miss the mmo feeling but mainly i focus on my xbox 360. Its just sad that ppl like norseman have nothing to do but hunt bots/ report to gms and post ******** in forums just because they dont get fun out of mmorpgs anymore. And plz stop pretending you didnt know about bots or the unfair system of l2 there are flames everywhere. Many ppl are mad because they had a hard time lvling up and now new players get the easy way ( gracia stuff). If you guys really cant stand lvling slower than the majority then get yourself a bot or simply quit!!!!ncsoft runs a buisness and doesn't care about a small percentage whining about bots and ITS game.
Remember, l2 is 5 years old now. You cant expect that is has the capacity of a game which have the technics of today. Its normal. Would be the same if you ask L1 to be like any other new game nowadays...impossible.
I think this thread has been a great sounding board for many feelings some of you are passionate about, so I'm very glad you have represented yourselves well, for the most part. Unfortunately, there are some posts that blatantly break the rules, such as criticism that is clearly not constructive and basically condoning the use of third party programs.
I'm locking this thread, but in the future I do encourage these types of discussions, given they stay within the rules of the boards.