Did I miss something in the patch notes that said damage of frenzy has been decreased? AFAIK it used to be +300% damage if below 30% HP and +50% damage if above 30% HP.
So how come, when I look at the skill description, it gives me some odd 131% (not sure if this is exact number) damage boost if under 30% HP? With HD +3 and lvl 78 PP buffs including PoF I have a bit more than 10k p.attack.
WTF is wrong with NC Soft? We get a fixed 10 minute cooldown on one of the few good skills and they nerf the damage boost by more than 50%? I mean srsly...**** NC Soft.
Did I miss something in the patch notes that said damage of frenzy has been decreased? AFAIK it used to be +300% damage if below 30% HP and +50% damage if above 30% HP.
So how come, when I look at the skill description, it gives me some odd 131% (not sure if this is exact number) damage boost if under 30% HP? With HD +3 and lvl 78 PP buffs including PoF I have a bit more than 10k p.attack.
WTF is wrong with NC Soft? We get a fixed 10 minute cooldown on one of the few good skills and they nerf the damage boost by more than 50%? I mean srsly...**** NC Soft.
Read the skill description carefully. It is a cumulative dmg incress that depends on the weapon you use. I don't believe it was nerff in any way.
Lol you are clueless, do you even play a destroyer at all? I doubt it.
Back in the days when frenzy was "OP" I had 17k+ p.attack with a dragon slayer. Atm with a HD and 6 lvls higher I get 10k+. This I call a major nerf. Not only did they nerf reuse, the also cut the damage boost by more than half.
Lol you are clueless, do you even play a destroyer at all? I doubt it.
Back in the days when frenzy was "OP" I had 17k+ p.attack with a dragon slayer. Atm with a HD and 6 lvls higher I get 10k+. This I call a major nerf. Not only did they nerf reuse, the also cut the damage boost by more than half.
That's why my main is a DA :P Any way on sub i am a destroyer but was just a bit before GF update so cant compare between now and then, so sorry i didn't notice the difference.
Well, I see. Believe me, the difference is there :) I was just ****** that they took 1 of the few good skills we had and turned it into an almost useless one.
Well, so long a fully buffed lvl 84 Titan (in frenzy) can still crit a Raidboss for 110k+ dmg...., i think the nerf is done to overcome the newer debuffs and other melee love to even things out, otherwise that same Titan would prolly crit that Raidboss for nearly 200k dmg? ;)
SS or it didn't happen. Also if you say lvl 84 I assume he was sporting a vesper weapon with 300 atribute and the raidboss had all the debuffs possible?
If so, then he presents maybe 1% of the whole comunity. The majority of us doesn't have access to all this 24/7.
SS or it didn't happen. Also if you say lvl 84 I assume he was sporting a vesper weapon with 300 atribute and the raidboss had all the debuffs possible?
If so, then he presents maybe 1% of the whole comunity. The majority of us doesn't have access to all this 24/7.
No.
The Titan he is talking about was one on Bartz who Crit Tiat for 118K Damage, Granted he was probably in 30% Frenzy with Zealot which gives 100% Crit Damage Boost and for all we know had the 83 Prophet Buff, while Tiat most likely was Stigma'd (+40% to Melee Damage) and Day of Doom. He was also only using the S 2 Handed Blunt.
Sure Titans aren't as strong as they use to be and can't solo raid bosses like they use to, but frankly they should have never been able to. A lot of you act like Titan still isn't one of the Fastest leveling class in game, and a Strong class in PvP.
The Titan he is talking about was one on Bartz who Crit Tiat for 118K Damage, Granted he was probably in 30% Frenzy with Zealot which gives 100% Crit Damage Boost and for all we know had the 83 Prophet Buff, while Tiat most likely was Stigma'd (+40% to Melee Damage) and Day of Doom. He was also only using the S 2 Handed Blunt.
Sure Titans aren't as strong as they use to be and can't solo raid bosses like they use to, but frankly they should have never been able to. A lot of you act like Titan still isn't one of the Fastest leveling class in game, and a Strong class in PvP.
I agree that back then, frenzy was overpowered. But as it is now, I do not see how a titan is very strong in PvP. Maybe I am a noob so please explain me how he is strong in PvP when he is one of the slowest classes in game?
Sure, many people will come with "but you have zealot and OTB" but these are 1 minute skills. One fo them kills your CP pool and the second one will most likely kill you when you try to pop it in the middle of a fight. After these two fade, it's back to kiting the destro a ****** him really hard. On the rare ocasion when I actually manage to catch someone, he just pops a CP elixir and starts spaming CP pots and runs again. Destroyers have no burst damage. The only burst damage they had was normal crits in frenzy mode and they've taken it away. So please tell me how is it a strong PvP character? And situation like a siege with 250 people and everyone is lagging and cant see the destro comming do not count, every character can kill in such situations.
So is being strong in PvE justification enough to nerf the class in PvP?
Sure I can pull out a bow....but I won't kill anyone with it. At least not someone competent enough to mash the CP macro. I am not even close to be as efficient with a bow as an archer and even they have it hard when the anti archery song/dance and the crit damage reducing buffs are poped, so what makes you think a destroyer would do better?
Still you didn't comment on the burst damage though.
because it looks like Tiat wasnt Stigma'd; i am looking at the fragment of damage log and other than normal 2h blunt damage variance, i dont see major damage increases, unless they were spamming stigma and had it up 100% on tiat, which, i'd say is impossible.
he shows a crit first of all for 85k damage; even with just VR4, he would have VR'd back 8k HP. right there, we'd have seen the effects of Frenzy go byebye. so frenzy did not play a part in his 118k damage crit.
which begs the question: how many crit multipliers do you need to get that high?
average damage of 2800-3000 ... div by average crit damage of 100k = 33x or 3300 %
you got your COV 20% (1.2x), zealot 100% (2x), fury 30% (1.3x), vicious stance (static amount, nonfactor) and simple crit damg from combo buffs (30% or 1.3x). last time i checked vicious stance added a static amount of crit damage. we probably shout negate that. blunts have higher crit damage because they are blunts, and it starts at 3x or 300%, so we're looking for 3000% more... the cumulative total so far is 3.12x crit dmg from buffs, and 3x crit damage from being a blunt, for a total of 9.36x damage increase...
because it looks like Tiat wasnt Stigma'd; i am looking at the fragment of damage log and other than normal 2h blunt damage variance, i dont see major damage increases, unless they were spamming stigma and had it up 100% on tiat, which, i'd say is impossible.
he shows a crit first of all for 85k damage; even with just VR4, he would have VR'd back 8k HP. right there, we'd have seen the effects of Frenzy go byebye. so frenzy did not play a part in his 118k damage crit.
which begs the question: how many crit multipliers do you need to get that high?
average damage of 2800-3000 ... div by average crit damage of 100k = 33x or 3300 %
you got your COV, zealot, fury, vicious stance and simple crit damg from combo buffs. last time i checked vicious stance added a static amount of crit damage. we probably shout negate that. blunts have higher crit damage because they are blunts, and it starts at 3x or 300%, so we're looking for 3000% more...
Then you have boss jewels (AQ+bauim), than the lvl 81 passive exponse weak point, you have the lvl 83PP buff and the lvl 79 dagger special which I cannot remember the name of.
While the crit damage is really impressive, it safe to say that the average player will never achieve something like that.
You could just as well say that tyrant is OP, since he could be delivering impressive crits and much higher attach speed.
Then you have boss jewels (AQ+bauim), than the lvl 81 passive exponse weak point, you have the lvl 83PP buff and the lvl 79 dagger special which I cannot remember the name of.
While the crit damage is really impressive, it safe to say that the average player will never achieve something like that.
You could just as well say that tyrant is OP, since he could be delivering impressive crits and much higher attach speed.
but nowhere near that powerful, actually.
Tyrant's best crit rate (seen recently) is 350. its medium crit rate for a dagger. however, this crit rate will lower attack speed to the same level as a Destroyer.
there are two greyed out Decaying buffs in the OP's buff window, i'd not be so sure one of them was a dagger special... i dont recall any dagger special that gave a party-wide buff. but i would bet one of those buffs was the level 83 Prophet buff.
i have a hard time believing Ant Queen and Baium and the Prophet buff stacking for 3000 % crit damage.
i'll have to read up on my Boss Jewels too, i dont recall seeing Crit damage bonus on Baium. what sticks out on me is the 4% attack speed/cast rate beyond that i dont recall. i'll go look it up. ETA: Stratics is outdated... anyone have uptodate info ? ETA: found it looks like 15% bonus from either jewel, total of only 30% stacked bonus unless this is false info.
Tyrant's best crit rate (seen recently) is 350. its medium crit rate for a dagger. however, this crit rate will lower attack speed to the same level as a Destroyer.
there are two greyed out Decaying buffs in the OP's buff window, i'd not be so sure one of them was a dagger special... i dont recall any dagger special that gave a party-wide buff. but i would bet one of those buffs was the level 83 Prophet buff.
i have a hard time believing Ant Queen and Baium and the Prophet buff stacking for 3000 % crit damage.
i'll have to read up on my Boss Jewels too, i dont recall seeing Crit damage bonus on Baium. what sticks out on me is the 4% attack speed/cast rate beyond that i dont recall. i'll go look it up. ETA: Stratics is outdated... anyone have uptodate info ? ETA: found it looks like 15% bonus from either jewel, total of only 30% stacked bonus unless this is false info.
The dagger special is actually a debuff, so you will not see it. It increases the damage the target takes when it recieves a critical hit. Also expose weak point is a passive skill, that when it triggers has the same effect as the dagger special, I believe. So you cannot just count the +crit damage modifiers you see, but also the ones you don't see.
EDIT: Tyrant's crit rate is 350? And how much do you think that titan has? He has a blunt, which means he doesn't receive crit rate from zealot but crit damage. I dunno about the blunt's SA but all in all he could have something around 300 crit rate with those buff. Last time I checked a tyrant can have focus fists (which will give more crit rate that the blunt itself) and in the same time 100% crit damage from zealot aswell and like what? 50% more att. speed? So yes, I belive a tyrant can come close to the DPS of a titan under the same condition and will keep believing that unless you prove me wrong :)
to get 350 crit rate, you need Focus fists and Hawk totem amid the plethora of buffs seen in the pic of the destroyer.
however you will NOT be at your fastest attack speed, and will be somewhere around 700 attack speed with these buffs. also you'd be weak as hell in the Pdef department.
even IF the dagger special and expose weak point and the prophet buff all gave 2x crit damage stacking modifiers that still doesnt equal 3000 % crit damage increase.
Hitting Tiat that hard doesnt factor the 83 pp buff. That means with it, he could be 226k or so on that crit.
Seems people here dont understand end game mechanics and buffs stacking with titans. Theres nothing that compares.
Minus blunts, its easy to cap out crit rate on any weapon.
@Spudnik, you have to weigh out all buffs/debuffs. Its not only about crit dmg, but patk/pdef, which is extremely polarized in this case. He is maxing his crit dmg with buffs, but still lacks the PP buff, which is a pretty amazing boost.
@forumnick, titan is amazing, but end-game buffs tyrant cannot put out as close to titan. Tyrant still can outdmg most every class though, and for practical purposes, are easier to play than a titan. Titan wont get near 300 crit rate w/ blunt, you need s80+ for that. Youll have something more like 150-180.
because it looks like Tiat wasnt Stigma'd; i am looking at the fragment of damage log and other than normal 2h blunt damage variance, i dont see major damage increases, unless they were spamming stigma and had it up 100% on tiat, which, i'd say is impossible.
he shows a crit first of all for 85k damage; even with just VR4, he would have VR'd back 8k HP. right there, we'd have seen the effects of Frenzy go byebye. so frenzy did not play a part in his 118k damage crit.
which begs the question: how many crit multipliers do you need to get that high?
average damage of 2800-3000 ... div by average crit damage of 100k = 33x or 3300 %
you got your COV 20% (1.2x), zealot 100% (2x), fury 30% (1.3x), vicious stance (static amount, nonfactor) and simple crit damg from combo buffs (30% or 1.3x). last time i checked vicious stance added a static amount of crit damage. we probably shout negate that. blunts have higher crit damage because they are blunts, and it starts at 3x or 300%, so we're looking for 3000% more... the cumulative total so far is 3.12x crit dmg from buffs, and 3x crit damage from being a blunt, for a total of 9.36x damage increase...
quoting myself so that i can keep tabs on what my math is...
from 9.36%, add in boss jewels of combined 50% boost (1.5x) = 14.04x.
multiplicative bonuses from Dagger debuff (assumed 2x), Stigma (1.4x general damage increase), expose weakpoint (assumed 2x) = 78.624 x
so our average 3000 damage hit becomes 235872 average damage. so Dagger debuff and expose weakpoint cannot be 2x bonuses. if they ARE 2x bonuses (added 100% crit damage) then Stigma did not play a factor in the killing of Tiat at the time of Anthon's screen.
Youre missing about 10 relevant buffs/debuffs #1. Crit wound doesnt add anything near what you said. Anthon is hitting scarlet van halisha which is Frint who has lower Pdef and completely different stats than Tiat. You have absolutely no concept what buffs and debuffs do? You can reference accurate information on forums about as fast as you can pull them from thin air.
Youre missing about 10 relevant buffs/debuffs #1. Crit wound doesnt add anything near what you said. Anthon is hitting scarlet van halisha which is Frint who has lower Pdef and completely different stats than Tiat. You have absolutely no concept what buffs and debuffs do? You can reference accurate information on forums about as fast as you can pull them from thin air.
#1 i assumed a value of 2x, i know it isnt like that and i did allow room to be corrected.
#2 i never referred anywhere to scarlet van hallisha... idk what youre talking about.
#3 you have absolutely no idea what youre talking about. given this fact, i shall endeavour to both not correct you and to continue saying this phrase willy nilly.
1) Room to correct? Its not even half the value. Its not a new debuff even, you dont know the effect of crit wound and expect to assume the damage? Youre adding huge %s to 2-3 debuffs and ignoring others that can be seen in the screenshots.. lol.
2) Well the Tiat picture has 3k hits with 1xxk crits. The 2nd picture of scarlet van halisha AKA Frint. Theyre 2 different mobs.
3) Youve pointed out you have no idea what brought about the damage in those pics. Youd be better off asking someone who has a clue.
1) Room to correct? Its not even half the value. Its not a new debuff even, you dont know the effect of crit wound and expect to assume the damage? Youre adding huge %s to 2-3 debuffs and ignoring others that can be seen in the screenshots.. lol.
2) Well the Tiat picture has 3k hits with 1xxk crits. The 2nd picture of scarlet van halisha AKA Frint. Theyre 2 different mobs.
3) Youve pointed out you have no idea what brought about the damage in those pics. Youd be better off asking someone who has a clue.
1. correct the values for me then, and add in whatever you think contributed to the damage multiplication.
2. why bring up this? i never made any references to Frintezza.
3. im asking you. you think you have a clue. if you'd rather not, ****.
Yea.. I raid both of these bosses on respawn. I happen to play a Titan doing the same damage ranges, GL figuring it out on your own. Before you make assumptions, at least account for everything you see on the screen. GL w/ your fail :P
Yea.. I raid both of these bosses on respawn. I happen to play a Titan doing the same damage ranges, GL figuring it out on your own. Before you make assumptions, at least account for everything you see on the screen. GL w/ your fail :P
its a little small. can't match it up to anything in a skill database in my bookmark list.
look, if you dont know dont play games. ive laid my cards on the table, play your hand; tell us what it is and what it does (given theres only one greyed out buff that is party-wide)
to get 350 crit rate, you need Focus fists and Hawk totem amid the plethora of buffs seen in the pic of the destroyer.
however you will NOT be at your fastest attack speed, and will be somewhere around 700 attack speed with these buffs. also you'd be weak as hell in the Pdef department.
even IF the dagger special and expose weak point and the prophet buff all gave 2x crit damage stacking modifiers that still doesnt equal 3000 % crit damage increase.
Where the hell did you take 700 atk speed? I've put that setup into L2 calc (78HP buffs, dances/songs, zealot and fist fury) and came up with 1200+ atk speed, not even any totems included. If you are sporting only 700 atk speed with buffs like in that picture then maybe you should petition NCsoft that your toon is broken.
Where the hell did you take 700 atk speed? I've put that setup into L2 calc (78HP buffs, dances/songs, zealot and fist fury) and came up with 1200+ atk speed, not even any totems included. If you are sporting only 700 atk speed with buffs like in that picture then maybe you should petition NCsoft that your toon is broken.
put the buffs given to the destroyer Anthon in the pictures before us in the thread, then come back.
edited to add: remember Draconic vs IC is going to make a big difference for different totems. tyrant damage output vs Destroyer dmg output will always be an apples-oranges comparison. a destro with 700 attack speed ant 350 crit rate will naturally balance out to the tyrant with 1400 attack speed and 350 crit rate due to the fist weapon actually doing less (1/2) damage per single swing than destroyer; making destroyer always > tyrant for DPS unless you get finnicky and start making comparison to Destro with Haste vs Tyrant in Bison... etc etc.
put the buffs given to the destroyer Anthon in the pictures before us in the thread, then come back.
edited to add: remember Draconic vs IC is going to make a big difference for different totems. tyrant damage output vs Destroyer dmg output will always be an apples-oranges comparison. a destro with 700 attack speed ant 350 crit rate will naturally balance out to the tyrant with 1400 attack speed and 350 crit rate due to the fist weapon actually doing less (1/2) damage per single swing than destroyer; making destroyer always > tyrant for DPS unless you get finnicky and start making comparison to Destro with Haste vs Tyrant in Bison... etc etc.
I did use the same buffs, he has CoV, I used PoF...atk. speed is the same there. Maybe he didn't have zerk, but that doesn't have that much impact anyway. Your note about drac vs. IC is void since he has dynasty, so would the tyrant in a fair comparison. You're just pulling numbers out of somewher without even verifying them (see atk speed, crit rate). With those buffs and the chance haste trigger from warrios subclass a titan would be well over 900 atk. speed so dunno why a tyrant would have less. Also the titan will have like half the crit rate of the tyrant. The more I talk to you the more clueless you seem to be and I find this discussion pointless since you probably never even had half the buffs on the picture.
PS: the two buffs you can't seem to identify will be probably blessing of queen and warrior ability - haste.
anyway, no, youre just not getting it, i suspect because youve never played a tyrant or tried to stand side by side with one to compare damage at a raid.
i know no tyrants that can do 50k damage crits per swing at a Tiat raid with 1200 atk speed in no totems.
in fact i'd wager a tyrant at a tiat raid would do about 25k dmg crits in the same buffset. remembering each fist has its own chance to crit, that doesnt even come CLOSE to the same DPS. Tyrants remember are powerful because of... (wait for it) .... (wait for it) .... FORCE SKILL!
a tyrant at tiat all elemented up would be doing about 900 damage per fist. through the crit multiplication factors listed above thats less than half the crit damage.
what tattoos did you use in your calculations, there, Nick? hopefully -9 dex. thats the average dex of tyrants these days. and yes i know it doesnt affect atk speed by a lot, but it brings a fully buffed and totemed tyrant up to a max of about 1100 warrior-haste'd.
The buff that eludes a lot of your calculations is a tank buff. In this case, the SK, comparable to PK. In any event, atk speed isnt even an issue. Atk speed can be capped by titan or tyrant without even maxing out all atk speed buffs. It also doesnt mean jack **** for his damage on swings, which seems to be the curiousity of the pictures.
Like the previous guy said, you havent seen/dont even know about a lot of high end buffs. To come to a thread and assume general values that are more than 3x the effect of the actual buff/debuff, why bother posting anything? On top of it you have an overly defensive attitude, as if you made a noble effort assuming values and putting together peices without actually taking into account all relevant data in the picture. People on official have really bad attitudes, and when it comes to end-game content, if you begin teaching or correcting them, they typically go off topic and call you unlegit some way or another.
So, Id rather not teach you simple game mechanics. Perhaps youll never have half of these buffs, and its better off to assume or dream of what they could be doing, rather than what they actually do. Read patch notes, do something?? Better off not posting than making **** up. Meh...
Cat Queen buff vs some party-wide tank buff (like some strange version of shield of Vengeance).
talk among yourselves and when you reach a conclusion, post again.
you assume i dont know anything about high end buffs; to a certain degree youre correct. nobody in my particular clan has them to offer me. very FEW people in the _ENTIRE GAME_ have them. and those that do, either dont post here or not at all. we dont have much information to go by without a central information source outside the game. as you seem to think there IS such a source, please share it. there isnt one.
frankly QyntGustin, i have a reason to be defensive. you jumped all over me like a deranged fanboi for putting up a hypothesis on his damage multiplier. as ive said before please if you feel you have a better calculation, make it.
since youd rather not teach me about game mechanics, however, you have successfully contributed NOTHING to the discussion. thanks for the + post count.
as you quite succinctly put it, better off not posting than making ***** up.
Cat queen buff is a given. Its in the picture, open eyes, focus them. Grats.
I haven't actually made anything up, I've thrown lines at you and you didnt try to climb a single one. I tell you to look at the picture and you cant. I tell you theres a tank buff in the last post and you make a buff that doesnt even exist. What the hell is shield of vengeance? Did you even try to look up any group buffs? Obviously not. Minus party UD, which isnt much of a 'buff' per say, you have one skill that actually boosts party members stats. Given that fact, you have to find 1 of 1 possible skill. Tough job? Here is a red block, find the other red block in the room. Essentially, thats basically what Ive given you. Lastly, what did I make up? Or you just wanted to shoot back the same line? Clever, cute.. I dunno. If I believed you actually wanted to know about this rather than just have another thread for you to jam posts in, Id probally inform you. Unfortunately, your character lets on otherwise.
from prayer over i count 2 greyed out buffs, 3 titan only buffs, vicious stance and Heroic Berzerker (amazing i know, ive never had it but i know what it is fro a buff list...)
since the rest of the party has cat queen buff, one of the greyed out buffs may very well be cat queen buff. the other i cant guess at frankly. its not counter critical, thats not party wide. its not a kamael skill. the only thing i can hazard is a synergy skill.
i see no shield of Faith, i dont know what other party-wide buff would come from a Tank...
are you talking about Spirit of Shilen? if so, it gives 100% crit dmag boost... so 2x crit damg. knowing now there is no counter critical, and just cat queen, i defer to my calculations;
quoting myself so that i can keep tabs on what my math is...
from 9.36%, add in boss jewels of combined 50% boost (1.5x) = 14.04x.
multiplicative bonuses from Dagger debuff (assumed 2x), Stigma (1.4x general damage increase), expose weakpoint (assumed 2x) = 78.624 x
so our average 3000 damage hit becomes 235872 average damage. so Dagger debuff and expose weakpoint cannot be 2x bonuses. if they ARE 2x bonuses (added 100% crit damage) then Stigma did not play a factor in the killing of Tiat at the time of Anthon's screen.
QED should read like this: from 9.36%, add in boss jewels of combined 50% boost (1.5x) = 14.04x.
multiplicative bonuses from Spirit of Shilen (known 2x), Cat Queen buff (1.3x) = 56.16 x
our 3000 average damage has come to 109512 damage...
QED
QyntGustin... asking everyone to know the ins and outs of LEVEL 83 SKILLS for any class is really pushing it; very few people are at this level, or will recieve these buffs; you mock everyone's intelligence when you say theres only 1 other skill to find. given the plethora of skills for any given class (last i checked Bishops had something like 82 skills) its no easy task.
next time i tell you to put up information, put it up. there is no central skill database, i had to go translate Korean to get this information. if you know a better source, tell us.
from prayer over i count 2 greyed out buffs, 3 titan only buffs, vicious stance and Heroic Berzerker (amazing i know, ive never had it but i know what it is fro a buff list...)
since the rest of the party has cat queen buff, one of the greyed out buffs may very well be cat queen buff. the other i cant guess at frankly. its not counter critical, thats not party wide. its not a kamael skill. the only thing i can hazard is a synergy skill.
i see no shield of Faith, i dont know what other party-wide buff would come from a Tank...
are you talking about Spirit of Shilen? if so, it gives 100% crit dmag boost... so 2x crit damg. knowing now there is no counter critical, and just cat queen, i defer to my calculations;
should read like this: from 9.36%, add in boss jewels of combined 50% boost (1.5x) = 14.04x.
multiplicative bonuses from Spirit of Shilen (known 2x), Cat Queen buff (1.3x) = 56.16 x
our 3000 average damage has come to 109512 damage...
QED
QyntGustin... asking everyone to know the ins and outs of LEVEL 83 SKILLS for any class is really pushing it; very few people are at this level, or will recieve these buffs; you mock everyone's intelligence when you say theres only 1 other skill to find. given the plethora of skills for any given class (last i checked Bishops had something like 82 skills) its no easy task.
next time i tell you to put up information, put it up. there is no central skill database, i had to go translate Korean to get this information. if you know a better source, tell us.
Have you ever thought about the fact that the poeple won't give away info just like that, because it gives them and edge in PvP/PvE? That someone also had to figure out what skills to use to max out damage and what skills are not so important? Why would anyone come here and explain eveything so that you or anyone else for that matter don't have to move a finger?
Oh and btw regarding your question about tats, I used setups without tats in both cases. I care little that most of the tyrants nerf the crap out of their dexterity by going -9 to boost other stats. The titan could have -9 dex aswell for all I know, I haven't seen his stat window. You tell me my calculations are out of date and yet you try to convince me that a tyrant with Anthon's buffs will be at 700 atk speed. Few posts later, with -9 dex, all of sudden he is at 1100 which is still quite off....hm hm hm, something tells me your calculations are somewhat wrong and that you are just assuming. I am pulling data out of l2calc, which is still acurate for the old buffs afaik. You just come with random numbers. Peace out.
Have you ever thought about the fact that the poeple won't give away info just like that, because it gives them and edge in PvP/PvE? That someone also had to figure out what skills to use to max out damage and what skills are not so important? Why would anyone come here and explain eveything so that you or anyone else for that matter don't have to move a finger?
Oh and btw regarding your question about tats, I used setups without tats in both cases. I care little that most of the tyrants nerf the crap out of their dexterity by going -9 to boost other stats. The titan could have -9 dex aswell for all I know, I haven't seen his stat window. You tell me my calculations are out of date and yet you try to convince me that a tyrant with Anthon's buffs will be at 700 atk speed. Few posts later, with -9 dex, all of sudden he is at 1100 which is still quite off....hm hm hm, something tells me your calculations are somewhat wrong and that you are just assuming. I am pulling data out of l2calc, which is still acurate for the old buffs afaik. You just come with random numbers. Peace out.
im not assuming, im a tyrant, i know my class. but youre right i did forget about Baium ring; if a tyrant has one, he is truly high in attack speed.
but you dont understand still, nicky.
700 attack speed of a 2h sword = 1400 attack speed of Fists.
a tyrant with less than 1400 atk speed will not equal the same output damage as a destro with 700 atk speed no matter how high you stack the crits.
which is the Essential reason you never see any other class with fists other than a tyrant, especially at high level; since you cant get abover such attack speed with any other class, youre better off with a 2hsword/blunt.
and yes, ive thought quite a lot that people withhold these bits of information. such is the reason i persist. such is the reason i contribute what can be found out to fansites.
why would i post this information? so that people that DONT know can find it. so that people that DONT know dont have to remain ignorant, or be told to bot it up.
so that this whole forum isnt the butt of the jokes around the MMOverse; often people ask questions and are shunned with replys like "L2P NOOB!" and "Bot more". when did anyone get treated this way in EQ? in AO? in EVE?
This was even linked to the front page. Its not hard to find on blah either.
Thats not hero zerk, its valor. Dance of zerk is in there too. So many comments just make me facepalm.. ~.~
Im not even sure what you guys are argueing about with atk speed. Tyrant is more practical steady DD than titan. However, with end game buffs, Titan will far outdmg them and other classes. All in all, nobody withholds secret information, its all available at your ability to search 1-2 popular sites. Good luck.
This was even linked to the front page. Its not hard to find on blah either.
Thats not hero zerk, its valor. Dance of zerk is in there too. So many comments just make me facepalm.. ~.~
Im not even sure what you guys are argueing about with atk speed. Tyrant is more practical steady DD than titan. However, with end game buffs, Titan will far outdmg them and other classes. All in all, nobody withholds secret information, its all available at your ability to search 1-2 popular sites. Good luck.
who cares?
non factor buffs for this thread. if the calculation is wrong still, tell everyone why. thanks.
also: if you can show me on blah where to find lvl 83 skill info, that would be nice.
neither hero zerk nor hero valor increase crit damage. for the purposes of the calculation of crit damage, these buffs are non factor.
you have still to give me a link to blah's "compendium" of readily available useful information on ANYTHING. i see only a bunch of confused misinformation posts in the CT2 section mostly QQing about bots and the report button. the stickys are pre-NA patch "assumptions" that arent even complete.
God forbid you dig for your information! It should all be given to you by right! Trying to belittle blah's information source while the main site is at best 1 chronicle behind on keeping up to date information. Feel free to reference: http://www.lineage2.com/Knowledge/race_darkelf_skill.html?my_class=dark_elf_shillien _templar for the current SK skills. How is it that such a high volume of players are able to read blah and gather information but after 10k+ posts on the officials youre too frustrated to search! Give me a break. If its the validity of the content youre concerned with, worry not. Its just as reliable, and in many cases, often more reliable than official. Official translates korean and implements korean. Blah has translations with countless threads confirming/denying various questions.
Hero zerk is hardly a non-factor buff. Its a pretty amazing buff tbh!
All the crit multipliers used in that pic is nothing new. Ive been doing the same since last patch. Thats just what a titan does. :) The damage is extreme because of DOD/stig/CW. Go try an HD vs DHA and you can begin these hard-to-find calculations that elude the lineage 2 official community.
God forbid you dig for your information! It should all be given to you by right! Trying to belittle blah's information source while the main site is at best 1 chronicle behind on keeping up to date information. Feel free to reference: http://www.lineage2.com/Knowledge/race_darkelf_skill.html?my_class=dark_elf_shillien _templar for the current SK skills. How is it that such a high volume of players are able to read blah and gather information but after 10k+ posts on the officials youre too frustrated to search! Give me a break. If its the validity of the content youre concerned with, worry not. Its just as reliable, and in many cases, often more reliable than official. Official translates korean and implements korean. Blah has translations with countless threads confirming/denying various questions.
Hero zerk is hardly a non-factor buff. Its a pretty amazing buff tbh!
All the crit multipliers used in that pic is nothing new. Ive been doing the same since last patch. Thats just what a titan does. :) The damage is extreme because of DOD/stig/CW. Go try an HD vs DHA and you can begin these hard-to-find calculations that elude the lineage 2 official community.
you fail. so very hard.
Lineage2.com's skill DB goes to 81. this is a lvl 83 skill. therefore i wont find it in Lineage2.com's skill DB. really, fail the fook more.
go to CT2's section in blah, go read the stickys for yourself. not even blah in all its Fail has a complete list of the skills for Final.
blah has a bunch of people with Feeds tied to plaync.co.kr and after quick babelfishing they find it to be patch notes, and so throw links out for people to translate. Blah has no better translation than NCsoft, its just faster because of the fanbois.
hero zerk and hero valor dont have any influence on crit damage, so they are non factor. but thanks for trying.
yes, we know this is nothing new, thanks. OH except it IS new. cause of that whole level 83 spirit of shilen thing which otherwise would have capped Anthon's damage at 50k per crit on average. Destroyers have always been uber at raids, but are more so now than ever before given 4 new crit damage helping buffs. come G+, youll see TANKS doing 50k dmg crits too.
"while the main site is at best 1 chronicle behind on keeping up to date information."
I linked that to show you the official site cannot provide you reliable info. I realize how fail the official site is, thats what Im pointing out. Then you say blah isnt factual.. soo, what do you suggest? Thats basically.. what Im saying. Its the best you got, so dig if you want to know. Or cry on official forums to people that do know? Lots of people visit blah and make threads asking questions that are 2-3 threads away from theirs lol. Typically theyre told to piss off, because they obviously didnt try to find out for themselves. If you dont put forth any effort, dont expect someone else to. Making up numbers wasnt an effort.
The PK buff was in game last patch. It carries the same crit bonus properties as its new counter-part, the SK buff. Ive been hitting chimeras for 150k+ since last Nov. Well, you probally dont know what a chimera is :(..
Patk makes a big difference in damage. Atk speed caps out end -game, so you consider your crit dmg, your patk, and the targets def. DOD halves its pdef, essentially, its doubling damage. Its not a crit boost modifier, but it will jump damage in the same respect(of course on normal hits). Patk is the difference in critting for 75k with a blunt, and 100k with a better blunt. The crit dmg range is so huge, that 10% patk boost, will jump crit dmg bigtime. Saying Patk is nonfactor is a pretty naive statement. I suppose Dance of zerk is nonfactor for bonus damage too. So is DOD halving its pdef, its not a crit dmg multiplier.. nonfactor.
So like I said, the crit dmg multipliers, its nothing new. MOST players didnt know about the PK+titan stacking buff even last chron. So dont feel too bad about it. If you really think the changes to vangaurd are going to make them compareable to titan, it goes to show how little you know about the damage. The titan is normal hitting as hard as average players would crit this mob for(This is due to Patk, compare it to a tank, black v white). You know so little, its silly to argue lol... makes the end of my workday go fast though. :D
"while the main site is at best 1 chronicle behind on keeping up to date information."
I linked that to show you the official site cannot provide you reliable info. I realize how fail the official site is, thats what Im pointing out. Then you say blah isnt factual.. soo, what do you suggest? Thats basically.. what Im saying. Its the best you got, so dig if you want to know. Or cry on official forums to people that do know? Lots of people visit blah and make threads asking questions that are 2-3 threads away from theirs lol. Typically theyre told to piss off, because they obviously didnt try to find out for themselves. If you dont put forth any effort, dont expect someone else to. Making up numbers wasnt an effort.
The PK buff was in game last patch. It carries the same crit bonus properties as its new counter-part, the SK buff. Ive been hitting chimeras for 150k+ since last Nov. Well, you probally dont know what a chimera is :(..
Patk makes a big difference in damage. Atk speed caps out end -game, so you consider your crit dmg, your patk, and the targets def. DOD halves its pdef, essentially, its doubling damage. Its not a crit boost modifier, but it will jump damage in the same respect(of course on normal hits). Patk is the difference in critting for 75k with a blunt, and 100k with a better blunt. The crit dmg range is so huge, that 10% patk boost, will jump crit dmg bigtime. Saying Patk is nonfactor is a pretty naive statement. I suppose Dance of zerk is nonfactor for bonus damage too. So is DOD halving its pdef, its not a crit dmg multiplier.. nonfactor.
So like I said, the crit dmg multipliers, its nothing new. MOST players didnt know about the PK+titan stacking buff even last chron. So dont feel too bad about it. If you really think the changes to vangaurd are going to make them compareable to titan, it goes to show how little you know about the damage. The titan is normal hitting as hard as average players would crit this mob for(This is due to Patk, compare it to a tank, black v white). You know so little, its silly to argue lol... makes the end of my workday go fast though. :D
a) i asked you to post what you thought the buff was that was faded on Anthon's screen. i could not identify it from the skill lists that i knew of, and you STILL havent linked us to a Blah thread where this information would be posted. ive looked, ive only found Guesses, Assumptions and QQing in threads that have no detail. much like your posts they only say things like "QQnerf skill x" and dont say either why or what part of it needs a nerf etc. filler.
you trying to tell me go look at blah for information is about as useful as telling a blind man to read the Bible for answers to why he can't see.
b) insulting my intelligence isnt going to make me like you any less. i know what chimeras are, thanks, but i bet you had no idea they were actually part of ancient mythology. name the civilization that coined the term, youll get a cookie.
c) Patk affects crit damage based on boosts to it at the time of crit; i.e. vicious stance adding a specific value of Patk for Crit damage calculation, i.e. crit damage SA adding specific amount of Patk for calculation of the crit. if your crit factor was a simple factor of 9, and you had 10k damage natural swing, your crit is for 90k; should you have vicious stance on and it added 700 patk to crit (vs 50k patk), your crit is now worth 90k +2.5%. vs a raid boss of 2million HP, this 2.5% damage is not really a factor because it is only boosted damage for 1 swing in 7 possible.
Patk does affect crit damage, but only when youve got high crit damage factors, otherwise, as you say a Vanguarding tank with only 1000 patk wont be gritting for nearly so much as a destro with 50k for sure. but add up all the crit damage factors, its possible for a SK to have 50x crit damage factor too. with vanguard, thats going to increase come G+. you will see more and more melee high levels critting for hundreds of thousands of damage, who arent titans.
d) the players on this forum are for the most part both not interested in the banter of blah, nor its false promises of patch data. i specifically remember no less than 4 incidents where Scavs were promised AOE Sweep, sorcs were promised overhit, etc etc.
when you say MOST players dont know about x, its simply because MOST players dont have the access to this information either because of it NOT being documented or because not everyone is part of the two major warring factions of any given L2 NA server. in fact there are COUNTLESS players from 1-79 that are NOT part of these factions and dont have access to "clan members" to provide the education.
again, if youve got a reliable central information site where everything is documented share it. Blah is not reliable.
Theres no step by step instruction on what your skills do and how to maximize them. You can learn all the skills, and combine them for various effects in the bounds of whats actually realistic to pull off.
You can really only assume the fading buffs, but you can pass a glance at his party member's buffs to see what it really is. Being a titan player, I know what buffs he has to have, what element his weapon cannot be, and so forth to put out that damage. Am I going to draw it out for people here? No.
I find it ironic you rag on blah for korean translations, then attempt to explain to me about the future of tanks based on a korean translation that is just getting posted in the last 24hours. On top of that, its not the final release, whereas blah posts what is on the test server, and eventually, what they finally end up with. They dont just release a patch and thats it, like they do here in NCNA. So, things can mistranslated, changed, and tweaked in the process. Yet as you can see, its helpful to have a general idea of whats to come.
Titans have rage. Rage is strong. So is frenzy. Without either of these buffs, titans are much like a huge dwarf. Both of these buffs do one thing, Patk+++++++ 50% here, 20% there, 300% here, ect... Thats the difference in classes. On top of that, they have zealot stacking with buffs, and other classes dont have this same privledge. Only tyrants the other class with zealot, and their totems werent stacking with tank buffs. GF End-game DPS classes :(.. Nothing compares :x
Theres no step by step instruction on what your skills do and how to maximize them. You can learn all the skills, and combine them for various effects in the bounds of whats actually realistic to pull off.
You can really only assume the fading buffs, but you can pass a glance at his party member's buffs to see what it really is. Being a titan player, I know what buffs he has to have, what element his weapon cannot be, and so forth to put out that damage. Am I going to draw it out for people here? No.
I find it ironic you rag on blah for korean translations, then attempt to explain to me about the future of tanks based on a korean translation that is just getting posted in the last 24hours. On top of that, its not the final release, whereas blah posts what is on the test server, and eventually, what they finally end up with. They dont just release a patch and thats it, like they do here in NCNA. So, things can mistranslated, changed, and tweaked in the process. Yet as you can see, its helpful to have a general idea of whats to come.
Titans have rage. Rage is strong. So is frenzy. Without either of these buffs, titans are much like a huge dwarf. Both of these buffs do one thing, Patk+++++++ 50% here, 20% there, 300% here, ect... Thats the difference in classes. On top of that, they have zealot stacking with buffs, and other classes dont have this same privledge. Only tyrants the other class with zealot, and their totems werent stacking with tank buffs. GF End-game DPS classes :(.. Nothing compares :x
true enough, but begars cant be choosers. ive only got 1 source right now for translations, give it another day, Elliebellie might have something more/different. elliebellie is where i went for the information i got in the first place, and it is HARDLY a central database.
Frenzy played no part in Anthon's 118k damage crit. how do i know? because just before that he crit for 65k; he VR'd at least 6,500 HP and his pic is seen at FULL hp. you and i both know Frenzy's effects are gone after 30% HP. the only Patk modifer that did, was Rage.
btw, where did you read that totems dont stack with tank buffs? care to show your source? i call BS.
Well, just from experience of playing with a tyrant :P. Thats my source. Youve never even had the buff to begin with, what grounds can you call BS on?! lol.
Frenzy still carries a patk boost above 30% :P. I can see its not a low HP hits though. Although just having his HP full isnt enough to tell you that. His text is scrolled up, so those buffs he has right there isnt necessarily what he had on this swings. His regular dmg didnt vary though.. so no patk changes!
Imagine what kinda damage he could do if he was below 30%? Chew on that, and youll have an idea of what I hit for. :)
frankly i can tell you the moon is blue, by experience.
and youd have to believe me.
so your claim is not valid until confirmed either by your source, or by another poster with a credible source.
i dont care what you hit for, to tell the truth. the thread isnt about you. nor is it about me. about Frenzy getting a stealth nerf. disproven long ago.