my personal congratulations to nc west or what ever this company is called,,,
i went yestarday to the seed of imortality with my shadow colector agathion to collect my first compresion stones... but ALAS!! the place was filed up with lvl 1 elves all equiped with the agathion and wouldnt let me get not 1 stone!!
i could pk them all but that will only ruin my char... cause they will be back in 1 minute doing their thingy...
since the company cant do anything about bots they sould cancel the adena market and give the items free by doing quests this is just **** and i dont want to have it anymore..
You go there with the collection agathion (can be bought for 50 red shards at the base) and then you can farm the energy compression stones (20 are needed to craft one attribute crystal). There are no mobs in that place, so it is of course TOTALLY crowded with bots, the respawn rate sucks (several minutes of standing around before you can farm again), all in all the place is complete hell. You pretty much have to stand in a room together with the bots, and whoever clicks fastest wins. Unless of course the bot owner just pks you first. I'd rather slam my ********* in a car door than ever go there again. Farm some stuff somewhere else, sell it and buy the compression stones/crystals in Giran, trying to get them yourself and craft your own crystals is a huge waste of time.
I seriously do not know what NCSoft were thinking when they designed that place, it just screams "bot here please".
You go there with the collection agathion (can be bought for 50 red shards at the base) and then you can farm the energy compression stones (20 are needed to craft one attribute crystal). There are no mobs in that place, so it is of course TOTALLY crowded with bots, the respawn rate sucks (several minutes of standing around before you can farm again), all in all the place is complete hell. You pretty much have to stand in a room together with the bots, and whoever clicks fastest wins. Unless of course the bot owner just pks you first. I'd rather slam my ********* in a car door than ever go there again. Farm some stuff somewhere else, sell it and buy the compression stones/crystals in Giran, trying to get them yourself and craft your own crystals is a huge waste of time.
I seriously do not know what NCSoft were thinking when they designed that place, it just screams "bot here please".
thanks.
Attribute crystal. Can I craft ANY attribute crystals? Or are they all of the same type? I mean I have fire on my weapon and I want to go from +155......to +300. I need those attribute crystals, right? How many to make +155?
Did they use a summon or an airship to get those elves in there? The quest needs to do a check for levels. You would think there would be mobs to fight. Things go from one extreme of boredom to another.
I seriously do not know what NCSoft were thinking when they designed that place, it just screams "bot here please".
Yep, I am amazed at how much fail they managed to put in a system which was designed from scratch :(
There is absolutely no excuse here, because this does not mix with anything already in the game. There is nothing to balance, nothing to combine - just pure awesome NONSENSE:
We get a few (15?) rectangular rooms, which are not a peace zone (but have no mobs), then we must wait for 3-5 minutes for a flame to appear so we have a chance to acquire a compressed stone of a random color.... of which we need 20 of the same color to get one crystal which might increase our element attribute by 5.... all the way from 150 to 300. Repeat for armor.
How could anyone get the idea that this place is for bots? /sarcasm
Attribute crystal. Can I craft ANY attribute crystals? Or are they all of the same type? I mean I have fire on my weapon and I want to go from +155......to +300. I need those attribute crystals, right? How many to make +155?
To craft one crystal, you need 20 compression stones of the corresponding type (e.g. 20 fire ones for one fire crystal). It then works exactly the same as the old attribute stones, just that if your weapon already is at 150 or higher, you can only use the crystals. The success rate of the crystals seems to be much lower than that of the attribute stones - on the PTS, I made several weapons to 300 attribute, and it always took me around 50 stones to get to 150 attribute, and around 100 crystals to go from 150 to 300. So the success rate seems to be around 25%.
and I get recipies for fire\earth\wind etc. attribute crystal from?
And those compression stones are randomly obtained, right? I can get any type from the same mob?
my personal congratulations to nc west or what ever this company is called,,,
i went yestarday to the seed of imortality with my shadow colector agathion to collect my first compresion stones... but ALAS!! the place was filed up with lvl 1 elves all equiped with the agathion and wouldnt let me get not 1 stone!!
i could pk them all but that will only ruin my char... cause they will be back in 1 minute doing their thingy...
since the company cant do anything about bots they sould cancel the adena market and give the items free by doing quests this is just **** and i dont want to have it anymore..
franz server by the way...
Same at Teon, GRATZ NC SOFT for the great job introducing something new in game and letting it getting zerged by bots. GZ GZ GZ, keep up the good job
I wonder if this company has ever cared about customer satisfaction tbh
so, basically it's easier to obtain attribute crystals then elemental stones, right?
How many places can a level 1 farm stones? Other farmers reading this will be rushing their little farmers up there. Where else can a level 1 start making a few mil adena after creation? Doing the calculation from the PMs from advertisement adena ingame then these avatars pay for themselves in a few hours. It looks like things are about to get very crowded there. Farmers will be fighting farmers soon.
they need a hight lvl toon to buy them an airship to get there and an agathion... so unless they have a lvl 78 toon with lots of adena they cant get there....
Maybe we need to rethink our massive efforts to get the seed opened...
I was so excited to be able to do something new that I ran right out and collected bunched of starstones to get a recipe and a collection bracelet. Maybe its for the best that the seed hasn't been opened yet on Sayha.
they need a hight lvl toon to buy them an airship to get there and an agathion... so unless they have a lvl 78 toon with lots of adena they cant get there....
Little level 1 farmers guarded by level 85 enforcers. Yeah, I would think they have they adena to get an airship.
Isn't it the Seed of Destruction to farm the Compression Stones? Either way, it should be changed, because it's pretty stupid that any level 1 can just go in there and Farm Stones.
They should make it to whoever are the 45 that kill Tiat when it spawns (Every 12 hours or so) should be the only ones allowed into the Seed to Farm the Compression Stones for the following 12 hours, and or until it spawns again. As it is right now, it's pretty terrible.
Isn't it the Seed of Destruction to farm the Compression Stones? Either way, it should be changed, because it's pretty stupid that any level 1 can just go in there and Farm Stones.
They should make it to whoever are the 45 that kill Tiat when it spawns (Every 12 hours or so) should be the only ones allowed into the Seed to Farm the Compression Stones for the following 12 hours, and or until it spawns again. As it is right now, it's pretty terrible.
How lvl 1 toons farm there? IT BECAUSE THEY'RE POWER CLAN MEMBER ALT BOTS! Every single lvl 5 clan member can summon airship ant put ant alt toon in it...
They should make it to whoever are the 45 that kill Tiat when it spawns should be the only ones allowed into the Seed to Farm the Compression Stones
That's an all-or-nothing approach, -1 because that would only make the strong stronger and the weak weaker. Those who kill Tiat already have their reward from the drops, right?
We do agree that the current system is terrible however...
That's an all-or-nothing approach, -1 because that would only make the strong stronger and the weak weaker. Those who kill Tiat already have their reward from the drops, right?
We do agree that the current system is terrible however...
Sure, but why should a bunch of Random level 1's, and Random clan get the benefit of farming those compression stones, when they had nothing to do with the Seed being open to it being farmable? The only reason those seeds are open to begin with is because Tiat was killed numerous times on the Server, by those clans. Why should all the random people who had nothing to do with that have the luxury of the 150~300 Elements by loading up lowbies?
There should either be a quest in which you would have had to do a successful Tiat Raid, like some sort of pass you earn when you have killed Tiat that permits you access to the Seed of Destruction, or like I said before where whoever kills Tiat, is given exclusive access to the Seed of Destruction until Tiat spawns again, which is roughly 12 hours. As it stands right now, 90% of the people farming these stones are lowbie/neutral clans that didn't have anything to do with Gracia leveling.
You are all a bunch of crying babys. I spent 8 hours, divided in 2 days (4 hours a day) and made over 400m in adena. Think how u can beat bots, and dont cry always to NCsoft.
Maybe the access to those stones should be restricted level-wise. That alone would help. But anyway, I don't think that mining/farming stuff was a good idea to begin with. Even if it's different from mob chaining, it's badly designed and becomes worse.
So what? If these 'lowbie' clans could do it, I'm sure they would. I'd personally prefer to see the gap between the strongest and the weakest reduced for a more competitive environment, and favour more things like this that help. It's not like the Tiat killers don't get S80+ armour drops or weapons.
Besides that, making it exclusively for those who killed tiat isn't really fair if others are also able to kill Tiat but didn't get to it in time to compete with the farmer clan who woke up at 3 in the morning or w/e. If it was an open and contested epic raid style area, then sure, but as an instance, theres no real competition.
It's a problem for sure, but I think it would be a lot better if they just simply enforced the 75+ rule on all of Gracia and blocked summons and Gludio ports of people lower than that.
While not so difficult to make and lot's people have them (for the Tru Farmers Inc. at any rate), it's a lot more effort to have a level 75 farmer toon. Especially in a place as small as the Seed of Destruction. If the GM's ever wake up and police even just a few spots like this, it could be dangerous for the farmers to let that toon run the risk of being banned as it was probably from one of their varka trains or w/e...
I dunno'. The true problem here is that NC Soft NA fail at doing their jobs.
Put a skill level requirement on the agathions for spoiling and sweeping to level 75. Or at least need the flying quest done. The skill level fix would be the easiest to do.
IMO the real problem is that 1) there isn't a level requirement to enter the seed of destruction or to wear the agathion and 2) that it is empty of mobs.... Even if there are not level 1s in there, it is taking hours to farm the 20 stones needed to craft a crystal... days of standing around waiting for a spawn with only the stones as a reward, no xp, no nothing. Ofc the stones are valuable, because they make the element of your weapon 300, and from what I understand, the effect isnt shown until it is the full 300 element.
There is a part of me that thinks that this situation will change with some sort of leveling of that seed. I just can't believe that this was designed this way forever. There is nothing else I can think of in the game that provides such a valuable item that doesn't require hunting of mobs of some sort. For a game driven by XP/SP this is just plain confusing.
Sure, but why should a bunch of Random level 1's, and Random clan get the benefit of farming those compression stones, when they had nothing to do with the Seed being open to it being farmable? The only reason those seeds are open to begin with is because Tiat was killed numerous times on the Server, by those clans. Why should all the random people who had nothing to do with that have the luxury of the 150~300 Elements by loading up lowbies?
Actually, more likely than not it is the folks that opened the seed that have all the lvl 1 farmers there. So I guess its fair and good after all.
Sure, but why should a bunch of Random level 1's, and Random clan get the benefit of farming those compression stones, when they had nothing to do with the Seed being open to it being farmable? The only reason those seeds are open to begin with is because Tiat was killed numerous times on the Server, by those clans. Why should all the random people who had nothing to do with that have the luxury of the 150~300 Elements by loading up lowbies?
I agree with you 100%. When we are shooing out the other people trying to farm those stones, we tell them the same thing. We earned the right to farm them; they didn't. When we are done, then maybe they can enter. It seems to be the biggest problem. Neutrals and others complain all the time about not having access to things in this game, and it's because they did nothing to contribute to it. They either need to get in the game or settle for what they have. There is a price to pay for every choice.
there are no bots...they are live players. I saw it by myself. But yes, they are annoiying which can only be fougth with their own weps...sometimes. Its stupid that lvl 1 chars can enter that seed without any problem lvl1!!!!! just lolz!
my personal congratulations to nc west or what ever this company is called,,,
i went yestarday to the seed of imortality with my shadow colector agathion to collect my first compresion stones... but ALAS!! the place was filed up with lvl 1 elves all equiped with the agathion and wouldnt let me get not 1 stone!!
i could pk them all but that will only ruin my char... cause they will be back in 1 minute doing their thingy...
since the company cant do anything about bots they sould cancel the adena market and give the items free by doing quests this is just **** and i dont want to have it anymore..
franz server by the way...
On Teon it requires 2-3 PKs before you get free room. Of course you need to know, who NOT to PK :)
Why should people that did nothing to get the seeds be able to farm there? I don't get this. It should be simple, you killed tiat, you can farm there, no alts no lvl1s, if you were in a cc that killed it fine go farm stones, if not buy them
Why should people that did nothing to get the seeds be able to farm there? I don't get this. It should be simple, you killed tiat, you can farm there, no alts no lvl1s, if you were in a cc that killed it fine go farm stones, if not buy them
Its HB repeated ... went through the pain of baylor quest, months spent opening HB to stage 12 then shortly after everyone can do a 2 minute quest to get in. gf.
Its HB repeated ... went through the pain of baylor quest, months spent opening HB to stage 12 then shortly after everyone can do a 2 minute quest to get in. gf.
You kidding me? I crit errored 4 times at baylor :S But still, for a while you couldn't go into hellbound without the instances, it wasn't oh hellbound open everybody and their lvl 1 get in, for a while there was exclusivity, now people do Tiat and they can't even farm their own stones you have to go to randomgirandorf that's got 10 lvl 1s there and buy the **** things
perhaps you are supposed to pk all the ppl who you dont know there, some ppl do the same at hb
also i see no why iop is empty and fire stones rise in price .. looks like all the "bots" (sure I know that for most players, all the ppl they see at "their" spots are bots) have moved to the seed :) using lvl1 char at the same acc for example.
I agree with you 100%. When we are shooing out the other people trying to farm those stones, we tell them the same thing. We earned the right to farm them; they didn't. When we are done, then maybe they can enter. It seems to be the biggest problem. Neutrals and others complain all the time about not having access to things in this game, and it's because they did nothing to contribute to it. They either need to get in the game or settle for what they have. There is a price to pay for every choice.
Lol.
Maybe it's because they are not overgeared or overleveled, and need better gear to actually contribute to it?
This one-sided way of looking at things makes you look like a disgusting *****.
The game doesn't revolve around ONLY those who are capable AT THE MOMENT.
Every game I've played, players have skipped content that they normally could not beat because the later content allowed them to drop back later and do it with the lower levels and probably worse gear than the end-gamers.
You are free to do what you want, but I doubt you are helping yourselves in the process. We all know how things are on Bartz, ATM.
I agree with you 100%. When we are shooing out the other people trying to farm those stones, we tell them the same thing. We earned the right to farm them; they didn't. When we are done, then maybe they can enter. It seems to be the biggest problem. Neutrals and others complain all the time about not having access to things in this game, and it's because they did nothing to contribute to it. They either need to get in the game or settle for what they have. There is a price to pay for every choice.
If that had been the case and only the raiders would be allowed, you would just have pk'd everyone and everything to stop them from getting it. You want someone to fight you, but you don't want anyone to get to a point where they'll be able to.
But anyway. I ran around there with a level 10 toon cause that's the only thing you can go in there with over and over again without caring about exp loss. By the looks of things, it will be a very very very long time till you stop farming it.
Horrible spawnrate on the things you need.
+
20 items to make a crystal
+
low success rate on crystal
=
a heck of a long time before TD is happy with their entire clan having 2-3 300 element weapons each, am I right?
Don't know about your server,but mine,GM's hammer has appeared there(pagans & mos too) many times lately and have give a big hammer crash even in "futured heroes"......
Put a skill level requirement on the agathions for spoiling and sweeping to level 75. Or at least need the flying quest done. The skill level fix would be the easiest to do.
85+
Only 85+ must have 300+ elemental offence on their weapons imho!
So only the guys who botted to 85 can get it. Woot! The 1% who somehow managed to get there legit already died of some kind of malnutrition related condition. ^_^
I have news for you LordRiot. There are many who have gotten to their 80s without botting. Get a *&^% grip. And those who are low level love to use the "legit" card as an excuse for still being in their mid 70s. It's pretty pathetic to take a game casually and then get mad when others play it for reward.
ok...it's so easy to get those seeds, how come no one's selling them? Maybe Teon has it for sale (no doubt) but Devianne doesn't. Not even a hero shout!
I have news for you LordRiot. There are many who have gotten to their 80s without botting. Get a *&^% grip. And those who are low level love to use the "legit" card as an excuse for still being in their mid 70s. It's pretty pathetic to take a game casually and then get mad when others play it for reward.
I think you are totally missing the point, and you're making yourself look rather foolish.
In our case, we are gathering the stones... as many as possible. It has a horrible success rate. I can imagine that no one is selling them, not until they have their armor/weapons to their max.
@at Trensharo: No im not taking it too seriously and if you think I'm foolish, tough. I'm just pretty tired of people who haven't achieved anything great level wise in this game to accuse those who have as being cheaters and bots. It's out of hand and happens too often. tyvm.
@at Trensharo: No im not taking it too seriously and if you think I'm foolish, tough. I'm just pretty tired of people who haven't achieved anything great level wise in this game to accuse those who have as being cheaters and bots. It's out of hand and happens too often. tyvm.More often than not it's true though. Not many in the top are legit. They might be "legit now" but how they got there is another story.
More often than not it's true though. Not many in the top are legit. They might be "legit now" but how they got there is another story.
Yes, it is this kind of post i refer to. You speak as if you know how each and everyone has gotten to their level. Lots of assumptions. It's just getting a little tedious to have to defend oneself just because the level is 80+ ... so when it appears in a thread I'm interested in, I address it.
Yes, it is this kind of post i refer to. You speak as if you know how each and everyone has gotten to their level. Lots of assumptions. It's just getting a little tedious to have to defend oneself just because the level is 80+ ... so when it appears in a thread I'm interested in, I address it.
I didn't say anything about you specifically.
And leveling is not the only thing that you can do illegit.
You can only stop being legit, you cannot become legit again after being illegit, doesn't work like that.
How many people do you know where you are sure they haven't ever cheated?
Personally, I know several people who I know aren't legit (some of my best friends still, don't get me wrong), very few who I know are almost surely 100% legit, and about 60-70% that could be legit or could not be, I don't know for sure.
Unfortunatley there is so much wide open cheating going on in L2 that it's hard not to be suspicious of anyone lvl 84+. I know on my server there were a bunch of people who showed up on the server (before transfers) and within a couple months were end lvl with top OE'd gear and skills. I'm not tyalking about just a few people either im talking about a hole clan. Just one example but it's something that happens all the time. Names popping up everywhere from nowhere end lvl with the best stuff. How can you really take a game seriously when this happens all the time on every server.
The OP has a legitimate argument and post turns into a deal with it if you don't like it, or if you can't hang quit thread. In reality this thread should never have had to be posted and it should have been answered withing the first couple responses from NcSoft. True colors are finally showing with this company.
The OP has a legitimate argument and post turns into a deal with it if you don't like it, or if you can't hang quit thread. In reality this thread should never have had to be posted and it should have been answered withing the first couple responses from NcSoft. True colors are finally showing with this company.
+1 :(
the sad part is that's a spot that's so **** easy to police ... it's not like they have to go all around hellbound to find and ban the farmers, it's a stupid room with 20 lvl 1s init
Way to blow things out of proportion. I know full-well there are those who got there legit. It was a joke in a game where cheating is the norm and we are all used to it (I keep forgetting how common level 85 is. Sorry...)
These places are made for people who want to make crystals for their weapons/armors, not for every noob that wants to make easy adenas putting a bot there and keeping a spot occupied forever. Like stones are farmed only by people who are high enough to hunt at hellbound or IOP.
And when a place is full of 1 level bots you got zero chance to find a spot
I Quit trying, it's waste of time..
Definately this place should be level restricted and GMs should do better job in protecting these places from bots. At least they are new places and should be promoted with a better way than discouraging players even from going there
Unfortunatley there is so much wide open cheating going on in L2 that it's hard not to be suspicious of anyone lvl 84+. I know on my server there were a bunch of people who showed up on the server (before transfers) and within a couple months were end lvl with top OE'd gear and skills. I'm not tyalking about just a few people either im talking about a hole clan. Just one example but it's something that happens all the time. Names popping up everywhere from nowhere end lvl with the best stuff. How can you really take a game seriously when this happens all the time on every server.
The OP has a legitimate argument and post turns into a deal with it if you don't like it, or if you can't hang quit thread. In reality this thread should never have had to be posted and it should have been answered withing the first couple responses from NcSoft. True colors are finally showing with this company.
I'm sure that that clan is made up of the same people that are doing this on all servers. I think they are part of the Adena business. If players are cutting into the Adena business by running their own Bots or the business is relatively slow...create an urgent need for upgrades....people will start buying again to become competitive.
These guys made a fortune with the Greek players on Devianne when the Greeks first came over from their private servers. Plus most played from internet cafes and couldn't set up stores...so they had to buy if they didn't want to go through the curve again.
On Phoenix i'm sure the arrival of Nova caused a spike in adena sales. As top tier clans try to compete i'm sure they are buying adena to afford the equipment to compete. It's smart marketing on behalf of PC Gamer (or whatever his name is...the guy thats posts in pink) The game is long past the fun part and is being milked for all its worth...it belongs to the Adena sellers...they have taken it away from NC West...that's why i asked on another post who actually owns NC West.
It would seem that NC caters to Farmers...and are cavalier about the whole issue.
BTW...when this game is dry they will move to Aion...and yes, i know, they are already there.
I agree with you 100%. When we are shooing out the other people trying to farm those stones, we tell them the same thing. We earned the right to farm them; they didn't. When we are done, then maybe they can enter. It seems to be the biggest problem. Neutrals and others complain all the time about not having access to things in this game, and it's because they did nothing to contribute to it. They either need to get in the game or settle for what they have. There is a price to pay for every choice.
oh, who opened and lvled HB btw? TD? OH OK!
"we earned the right"? LOL. I dont think the server or any gm or anyone else recognizes that.
but you know you can always cry more, and petiton about that anyone can enter now.
3 days now collecting stones manually, doing another things while seeds respawn = 1b adena. GF cryers. Try to find out how to beat bot and stop complaining.
oh, who opened and lvled HB btw? TD? OH OK!
"we earned the right"? LOL. I dont think the server or any gm or anyone else recognizes that. but you know you can always cry more, and petiton about that anyone can enter now. keep the pking, we always like antharas drops :)
You are one of the people from the clans that are creating the level 1 bots, creating a clan to put them in so they have boat rights, and coming back over and over again to grab a few stones here and there. So you come here to gloat because you take advantage of what has to be a mistake by the developers. Fine. We will make it as hard as we can for you.
We did earn the right to farm it first, whether you like that or not. Not any other clan on our server managed to enter and defeat the bosses needed to do that, not even once. So yah.
Hellbound is a completely different story. It was high level people entering and fighting for the right to hunt there. No one under 78 could get in. At the Seed of Destruction, you hide behind your baby creations and have no dignity at all in that, while you run around spewing trashtalk, thinking you are so clever.... Come on your mains, battle us for this right you think you deserve. We did it to farm at Hellbound.
PS You are so proud of that Antharas ... and it wasn't even your clan that got it. Funny how you take claim for it. And I hope you enjoyed killing a bishop unable to use her skills on the boat. Was pretty grown-up of u :) Good thing I had salvation on.
NC WEST kinda lease this game from the real NC SOFT over in asia and you would be deluding yourself if you thought that any feedback from players here gets back to the developers.
Once you realise that NC WEST either cannot fix your problems are not moderating the game properly in order to reduce them then you can either a) put up with the ever increasing number of things that piss you off b) go play a game from a company that is able and willing to provide care for its customers or c) abuse the game like so many do and go put a couple of your own bots there - I don't think NC WEST or the GMs will give a **** if you do tbh.
Ofc, we all appreciate that NC WEST can't just change things here, however, they can and should be properly moderating THEIR servers. But how many years have players been saying this? It ain't going to change and this is why I won't be renewing my subscription or touching any more NC WEST games.
You are one of the people from the clans that are creating the level 1 bots, creating a clan to put them in so they have boat rights, and coming back over and over again to grab a few stones here and there. So you come here to gloat because you take advantage of what has to be a mistake by the developers. Fine. We will make it as hard as we can for you.
We did earn the right to farm it first, whether you like that or not. Not any other clan on our server managed to enter and defeat the bosses needed to do that, not even once. So yah.
Hellbound is a completely different story. It was high level people entering and fighting for the right to hunt there. No one under 78 could get in. At the Seed of Destruction, you hide behind your baby creations and have no dignity at all in that, while you run around spewing trashtalk, thinking you are so clever.... Come on your mains, battle us for this right you think you deserve. We did it to farm at Hellbound.
PS You are so proud of that Antharas ... and it wasn't even your clan that got it. Funny how you take claim for it. And I hope you enjoyed killing a bishop unable to use her skills on the boat. Was pretty grown-up of u :) Good thing I had salvation on.
me? auhauhauhauahauhauahuahau
what about wiznick bot grps in iop, visnu protecting varka trains???
SHUT THE **** UP. took me more then 2 years to reach lvl 79 and you say im putting ******* bots in destruction? what about all those ENMITY bots running in there? they run to the energy seeds even before they appear.
theres simply no one there BUT TD/ENMITY/td and enmity bots/reds.
lie more like all the rest of you 5 year old players that claim to be the best. 5 years.. if you all werent on top it would be **** eh? so much lies on hero shout pff.. uauahuau
your butthurt cause i killed you on the boat yesterday? LOL CRY CRY MOOOOOOOOORE. i couldnt use any skills either. +1 for me and for clan :)
maybe you should talk with the Destruction NPC about letting anyone get in.. uahuahauhauauaauahu
and im not claming antahras.. uahuah that drop was a good news to everyone.. anyone feels good about it becuse the biggest botter/train runner/trashtalker lost it. yes, im still laughing because he got so baby mad and he even desapeared for 3 days before posting or even loggin back.. uahuauahauhauahuahauhauauahauhauahuaauahuahuahauah uahauhaua
Not butthurt about u killing me. I fully expected you to do it. That's why I always salvation myself on the boats when I am on my own, so I can get up without having to bother anyone to come and rez me. Just was a cheesy thing to do. But, i can't say if the tables were turned if I wouldn't do the same thing. ^^
Enmity now is the alt clan for our buffer alts. So they are TD. The reds are there because of you and your kind.
Yes, you are claiming the Antharas. You speak about it like it was your ill-gained treasure. But, it's the price you pay for going red wearing one. We aren't as upset as you are excited. Funny what entertains the little folk <3 And btw, he logged off when it happened yes. Who wouldn't have a reaction immediately like that. But he was logged on the next day. Of course he was.
Shinnai, on the Gludio boat only regular melee skills work. No magic or special skills, etc. I suppose I coulda whacked him with my mace... But I don't think i could have killed him before the boat arrived at station :)
How can you get into the destruction seed? (thats the 9-person one right?)
It says you need a command channel, but youre only 1 party, doesnt seem to make much sence. I thought one seed was 35+ players and the other was 9 players...
3 days now collecting stones manually, doing another things while seeds respawn = 1b adena. GF cryers. Try to find out how to beat bot and stop complaining.
are u complete idiot or retared??
the point is not how to beat the bot...but to play the game... i dont pay euros per month trying to bypass cheaters... if u are happy whith that then just **** and dont bother to post!
Wow, thanks for the good news Cyd ! <3 Well, you mean that level 1s can enter and farm the Seed of Destruction for elemental stones? Can you give me a source?
And to Rosalina: Yes, it is like that until you level it up ... then Destruction is not limited to parties only. As you can see from this thread, even Level 1s can enter.
the point is not how to beat the bot...but to play the game... i dont pay euros per month trying to bypass cheaters... if u are happy whith that then just **** and dont bother to post!
now imagine if instead of lvl 1 bots this place is filled with people under one of power clans crest. I quess most of you (including myself) could only dream about farming there :)
now imagine if instead of lvl 1 bots this place is filled with people under one of power clans crest. I quess most of you (including myself) could only dream about farming there :)
this is how it was on Bartz,
Bartz is pretty one-sided atm and TO INCREASE THE GAP between clans, top clan is closing seed by PKing everyone
but ppl started to come on lvl 1 alts so "top clan guys" are all butthurt now =)
Wow, thanks for the good news Cyd ! <3 Well, you mean that level 1s can enter and farm the Seed of Destruction for elemental stones? Can you give me a source?
.
Its more like the attack and defend stages of the seeds reset in a different way and the compression stone farming window is much shorter. prices of crystals on korean servers have gone sky high. i'll try to find a source, prolly korean site translation :P
If seed cant be farmed without Tiat dying, stop killing it for a while, then ppl wont know when its open or not. Im assuming your clan is the only one that kills it Armenua?
@at Trensharo: No im not taking it too seriously and if you think I'm foolish, tough. I'm just pretty tired of people who haven't achieved anything great level wise in this game to accuse those who have as being cheaters and bots. It's out of hand and happens too often. tyvm.
There is nothing to achieve in levels.
Just cause you have higher level/better geared people to level with doesn't make you any better than they are.
The only difference between you and them is that they are grouped with people on their general level, which disallows them from being able to accomplish the types of PvE feats you and you fellow players (friends/clannies) can accomplish.
To say that they should have no chance at catching up because they started the game behind the leveling curb is selfish, rude, and quite frankly dispicable. It shows just how little you know about MMORPGs, and yes, it's quite foolish.
If you want factorable PvP, then you cannot expect to get it against targets that are severely outgeared and outleveled. Kudos to you, you have the type of attitude that actually prevents you from getting what you actually want in the game. Have fun being bored (and you will be, regardless of whether or not you admit it).
To say that they should have no chance at catching up because they started the game behind the leveling curb is selfish, rude, and quite frankly dispicable. It shows just how little you know about MMORPGs, and yes, it's quite foolish.
No it's not and it's pretty much true. Every1 who comes in l2 and chooses not to bot with his bot train has no chances of catching up because:
In C2: B grade has been introduced. Hunt for recipes, parts, materials.
In Gracia Final: totally same! (exept the part if you want low B you can buy it)
In C3 A grade was introduced: stupid quests for recipes etc however it was a time when every1 was doing that quest. It was easy to find a party/trade items.
In Gracia final: Basically nothing has changed just the fact that rarely goes there, to find party to GC almost imposible etc.
In C4: S grade as been introduced. Again it was time when every1 was gearing up with s grade and it was easier to find a party because almost every1 was intrested in getting S grade.
In Gracia Final: It's totally the same! Just now it's up to you to gear up S grade if you wanna join better clan. However nothing has been changed too much in getting it faster.
Anywya all in all there's no cathing up in l2. Legit player has to go all the long way as old players did just the fact remains that new player did not started 3 years ago. Ofc options like ebuy for new player looks very attractive due to this design.
Just cause you have higher level/better geared people to level with doesn't make you any better than they are.
The only difference between you and them is that they are grouped with people on their general level, which disallows them from being able to accomplish the types of PvE feats you and you fellow players (friends/clannies) can accomplish.
To say that they should have no chance at catching up because they started the game behind the leveling curb is selfish, rude, and quite frankly dispicable. It shows just how little you know about MMORPGs, and yes, it's quite foolish.
If you want factorable PvP, then you cannot expect to get it against targets that are severely outgeared and outleveled. Kudos to you, you have the type of attitude that actually prevents you from getting what you actually want in the game. Have fun being bored (and you will be, regardless of whether or not you admit it).
Have to agree with this. And attitude described by you is one of the reasons, why (from what people on this and other forums are saying) Bartz is such a dead pve server :)
The seeds aren't meant for players. They're for brainless zombies...
Quite opposite.
If you are staring on your screen and do nothing while waiting for respawn then yes. But you can look at this the other way: you have 10 seconds of playing game and 10 minutes break while stones respawn. Imo less zombie than molesting your right mouse button during regular grind :)
Shinnai, on the Gludio boat only regular melee skills work. No magic or special skills, etc. I suppose I coulda whacked him with my mace... But I don't think i could have killed him before the boat arrived at station :)
I was talking about the SoD. You start to collect, dagger shadowsteps, interrupts you, takes your seed >.<
Just cause you have higher level/better geared people to level with doesn't make you any better than they are.
The only difference between you and them is that they are grouped with people on their general level, which disallows them from being able to accomplish the types of PvE feats you and you fellow players (friends/clannies) can accomplish.
To say that they should have no chance at catching up because they started the game behind the leveling curb is selfish, rude, and quite frankly dispicable. It shows just how little you know about MMORPGs, and yes, it's quite foolish.
If you want factorable PvP, then you cannot expect to get it against targets that are severely outgeared and outleveled. Kudos to you, you have the type of attitude that actually prevents you from getting what you actually want in the game. Have fun being bored (and you will be, regardless of whether or not you admit it).
Well, now I think you are taking this too seriously.
While I get that somehow you blame me for being some sort of a bully, what I was referring to is the constant harrassment and the implied need to exonerate myself because I am level 83. On these forums particularly and from players that still haven't hit 80 that are in non-pvp clans, I am constantly accused of not leveling honestly. This is what becomes the subject, no matter what was being posted about originally.
This becomes tedious to me. And this is what I'm talking about. You are talking about something else completely.
And, I am not preventing anyone else from leveling. This game is NOT communist in nature. It is a free-for-all where many, many times you must fight for what you want. Since I was able to get to my current level by playing this game according to its rules, you are too. Some of you suspect or even discover that other higher levels have cheated to get there and you give up and refuse to work for it because you are victimized in your own minds. It's kinda weak and sad, if you ask me.
In the case of the Seed of Destruction, we did all the bosses for the number of times needed in order to open it up for the farming of stones. We earned the right to be the exclusive farmers until we get what we need out of it. We are not strip miners. There will still be seeds left when we are done.
Why people who did not contribute for the Seed of Destruction should benefit from farming the stones? after all was their effort that allow the farming of the stones. True they got S80 weapons parts or whatever, still it correspond to them to be the first and farm the stones they need to pvp more... =D. I think the main problem here is, NCSoft Korea should make this whole thing a quest only way to access... so not access to those who didnt complete such quest, sounds fair to me, but to botters and cheaters farming the stones right now, as well carebears who never pvp at all and hide in their level 1 toons, ofcourse is not fair.
This has nothing to do with been greedy or close the gap beetwen veterans and new players.
No it's not and it's pretty much true. Every1 who comes in l2 and chooses not to bot with his bot train has no chances of catching up because:
In C2: B grade has been introduced. Hunt for recipes, parts, materials.
In Gracia Final: totally same! (exept the part if you want low B you can buy it)
In C3 A grade was introduced: stupid quests for recipes etc however it was a time when every1 was doing that quest. It was easy to find a party/trade items.
In Gracia final: Basically nothing has changed just the fact that rarely goes there, to find party to GC almost imposible etc.
In C4: S grade as been introduced. Again it was time when every1 was gearing up with s grade and it was easier to find a party because almost every1 was intrested in getting S grade.
In Gracia Final: It's totally the same! Just now it's up to you to gear up S grade if you wanna join better clan. However nothing has been changed too much in getting it faster.
Anywya all in all there's no cathing up in l2. Legit player has to go all the long way as old players did just the fact remains that new player did not started 3 years ago. Ofc options like ebuy for new player looks very attractive due to this design.
B grade was in c1.
Also, s80 is now easier to make than regular s grade thanks to gracia final. So there is a pretty big change on trying to get people on the same level. Lvl 80 is the new 76 as of gracia final (81 is the new 78). level 80 is not hard to get. should only take you 1 month on hb to go 79-80 in 5 hour a day groups.
and yea, it's definately easier to make s80 right now, than it was to make B grade armor sets in C1.....
This probably belongs in the bartz forum... But whatever >_>
Anyone who's going to comment on this, please read the last paragraph before you judge
While I get that somehow you blame me for being some sort of a bully, what I was referring to is the constant harrassment and the implied need to exonerate myself because I am level 83. On these forums particularly and from players that still haven't hit 80 that are in non-pvp clans, I am constantly accused of not leveling honestly. This is what becomes the subject, no matter what was being posted about originally.
This becomes tedious to me. And this is what I'm talking about. You are talking about something else completely.
I don't blame you (the person) for being a bully, I almost never saw you ingame, I don't have enough experiences with you to even decide if I like you or not. However, I think the entity TD is definitely being a bully. (to not repeat the same thing twice, read the reason after next quote)
And, I am not preventing anyone else from leveling. This game is NOT communist in nature. It is a free-for-all where many, many times you must fight for what you want. Since I was able to get to my current level by playing this game according to its rules, you are too. Some of you suspect or even discover that other higher levels have cheated to get there and you give up and refuse to work for it because you are victimized in your own minds. It's kinda weak and sad, if you ask me.You are not preventing anybody from leveling. But TD as a clan is. Both directly and indirectly. Leveling is not just killing monsters, It's making everything about your character better. This includes elemental stones, skill enchants, even richness.
a year ago TD was struggling a bit against enmity, i forget exactly what happened in the mean time, but now TD is pretty much LittlePigs, Enmity and old TD combined. Arguably the 3 strongest clans that were on the server in the last year, now it's 1 clan. Since then TD has really never had anyone to fight them, that's why they have the highest amount of S80 gear, highest levels, highest amount of boss jewels. Noone could challenge them after they merged up, and at the same time, everyone else was kept from the lucrative content, for 2 reasons that i can think of. 1) to stop anybody else from getting powerful and becoming a challenge. 2) because there is only 1 copy of the content, if you let someone else have it, it means TD can't have it for that spawn period.
TD was already very strong after the merge, but they got stronger at a much faster pace than anybody else, simply because they could. They removed all challenge from themselves by merging up with their previous big enemies.
But this means that part of what you say isn't right. Yes you(personally and you clan) got your level within game rules, that doesn't mean everyone else can do it. You (TD) removed your own competition and became the equivalent of Goliath versus 10 davids who are also fighting amongst themselves. You are a threat to everyone else, but they pose none to you. So no, it doesn't mean everyone else can do the same as you did.
If there had never been a merge between those 3 clans I think the Bartz power picture would be completely different now.
In the case of the Seed of Destruction, we did all the bosses for the number of times needed in order to open it up for the farming of stones. We earned the right to be the exclusive farmers until we get what we need out of it. We are not strip miners. There will still be seeds left when we are done.
This just confirms that TD do indeed force people out of leveling.
"when we are done" <-- that is exactly the part I mentioned in an earlier post. When is TD done? When everyone and their alts has 2-3 S/S80 weapons and armor sets with full 300 element? Because that'll be forever, elemental stones will be old news when that time comes
NOW THEN. Is this wrong? No it's not. Is it unfair, it is definitely, no one else can challenge you. But you did the smart thing and you reap the benefits now, I respect that fully. I even Expect someone with no competition to do exactly the same, it's human nature.
Of course I dislike the situation because it keeps me from things I would like to do. but I fully understand why, and that it can't be any other way till TD gets bored and breaks up or till everyone else joins up and pose a threat, and I do not see the second option happening, too much bad blood, and I don't know how TD is doing, so I have no idea about the first option.
I'm not anti-TD, even though that's probably what people will think when reading my posts. And I don't have any hostile feelings towards Armenua (sp? I always think the Egyptian god thing Amun-ra when i see the name) even if it might seem like it.
Well, that is a very thoughtful post, Sneezing. Although there are some flaws in your thinking.
For instance, for many months "neutrals" have farmed Hellbound at the green area and the chimera. We even had a group of vestige in Tully's room next to us, before we warred them. Why do you think that element stones are so cheap right now? It's because of that. There were plenty of people out in the desert farming the scorpions and caravans that could have gotten their quest to get s80 gear. And also we purposefully left Frintessa and Baium up for hours after their spawn.. and not a single clan tried to ninja up there and try to take them.
What I said about seed of Destruction and farming the elemental stones.... you have no idea the number of level 1 alts that are spending all their time running in and trying to steal off the stones. It's a whole ant farm of bugs. And yes that pretty much irritated us. It would anyone. So we started taking steps to keep the little pests out. (PS You know these are level 1-40 alts created to do this by our enemies. They don't even have the balls to come out there and fight us for it... although the times they have, it's been pretty fun indeed.)
I say "when we are done" because we have earned the right to it. That you think that is unfair... I just don't know what to tell you. It's like we went out and got a job and made the money to buy dinner... and because you are our neighbors and less fortunate, you feel you have the right to have an equal share in the food? No, no, no. It is also pretty possible that once our family has eaten that we are more than happy for you to come over and dine.
And you are wrong that no one can challenge us. There is certainly the possibility of being challenged. It's just that there is no organization to do it.
Enmity did not merge with us, btw, most everyone quit and about 5-6 of them were left, and they asked to join us. We said yes. That is hardly a merge.
If seed cant be farmed without Tiat dying, stop killing it for a while,
Are you insane?Tiat has 100% drop of icarus and chance for vesper!
On Tuesday,after the server downtime,a clan farm Tiat,and she dropped a Vesper Caster!!!!!!!
Well, now I think you are taking this too seriously.
While I get that somehow you blame me for being some sort of a bully, what I was referring to is the constant harrassment and the implied need to exonerate myself because I am level 83. On these forums particularly and from players that still haven't hit 80 that are in non-pvp clans, I am constantly accused of not leveling honestly. This is what becomes the subject, no matter what was being posted about originally.
This becomes tedious to me. And this is what I'm talking about. You are talking about something else completely.
And, I am not preventing anyone else from leveling. This game is NOT communist in nature. It is a free-for-all where many, many times you must fight for what you want. Since I was able to get to my current level by playing this game according to its rules, you are too. Some of you suspect or even discover that other higher levels have cheated to get there and you give up and refuse to work for it because you are victimized in your own minds. It's kinda weak and sad, if you ask me.
In the case of the Seed of Destruction, we did all the bosses for the number of times needed in order to open it up for the farming of stones. We earned the right to be the exclusive farmers until we get what we need out of it. We are not strip miners. There will still be seeds left when we are done.
You totally missed the point.
Well, that is a very thoughtful post, Sneezing. Although there are some flaws in your thinking.
For instance, for many months "neutrals" have farmed Hellbound at the green area and the chimera. We even had a group of vestige in Tully's room next to us, before we warred them. Why do you think that element stones are so cheap right now? It's because of that. There were plenty of people out in the desert farming the scorpions and caravans that could have gotten their quest to get s80 gear. And also we purposefully left Frintessa and Baium up for hours after their spawn.. and not a single clan tried to ninja up there and try to take them.My point was they got to the content much later than you. Just like it'll happen with the elemental crystals, noone else will get to have a go until you withdraw from the place.
What I said about seed of Destruction and farming the elemental stones.... you have no idea the number of level 1 alts that are spending all their time running in and trying to steal off the stones. It's a whole ant farm of bugs. And yes that pretty much irritated us. It would anyone. So we started taking steps to keep the little pests out. (PS You know these are level 1-40 alts created to do this by our enemies. They don't even have the balls to come out there and fight us for it... although the times they have, it's been pretty fun indeed.)I went there on my low level prophet to see what it was like, Then later on a level 15 to go a bit deeper without worrying about exp loss. I didn't have an agathion because I didn't care, I just wanted to see what the place was.
But I did see a party of lowlevels with an Enmity character in it, the enmity character with 6-8 D graders following him in the standard bot party way of 1 leader and everyone else following at the exact same range, exact same spot even.
I say "when we are done" because we have earned the right to it. That you think that is unfair... I just don't know what to tell you. It's like we went out and got a job and made the money to buy dinner... and because you are our neighbors and less fortunate, you feel you have the right to have an equal share in the food? No, no, no. It is also pretty possible that once our family has eaten that we are more than happy for you to come over and dine.I dislike that comparison, eating is a thing necersary to live, 300 element is not.
Like I said in the previous post, I don't think it's wrong, I understand it. I think it's unfair because noone else really had a change to challenge you when the content got released. That's the problem or benefit(depending on how you look at it) of a game that doesn't have instanced progression.
And you are wrong that no one can challenge us. There is certainly the possibility of being challenged. It's just that there is no organization to do it.
Enmity did not merge with us, btw, most everyone quit and about 5-6 of them were left, and they asked to join us. We said yes. That is hardly a merge.Technically it's possible, but it wont happen, AE/DO/SC/DS/Vestige(sorry to those I missed) would never ally up into one. I personally wouldn't mind it, but some people are unable to put past events behind them.
If they did then yes, they would definitely be a challenge, but it just wont happen.
I say "when we are done" because we have earned the right to it. That you think that is unfair... I just don't know what to tell you. It's like we went out and got a job and made the money to buy dinner... and because you are our neighbors and less fortunate, you feel you have the right to have an equal share in the food? No, no, no. It is also pretty possible that once our family has eaten that we are more than happy for you to come over and dine.
Sure thing. Those level 1 alt guys paid more money for accounts to NCsoft, so you can come there after they are fed up :rolleyes:
Ah, and you don't grow your own foor IRL, don't you? So, I hope, you aren't going to tell us that it's unfair that you can eat it.
But even then it's not the main point, in this I agree with Trensharo. This is a game, it is supposed to be fun to at least some of the participants. This is a PvP game, you are supposed to get fun in PvP competition. If you take a lead and lock the resources in the game, so they aren't accessible to other participants, those become even less competitive. How having no competition in PvP competition game is fun to you? To them?
Sure thing. Those level 1 alt guys paid more money for accounts to NCsoft, so you can come there after they are fed up :rolleyes:
Ah, and you don't grow your own foor IRL, don't you? So, I hope, you aren't going to tell us that it's unfair that you can eat it.
But even then it's not the main point, in this I agree with Trensharo. This is a game, it is supposed to be fun to at least some of the participants. This is a PvP game, you are supposed to get fun in PvP competition. If you take a lead and lock the resources in the game, so they aren't accessible to other participants, those become even less competitive. How having no competition in PvP competition game is fun to you? To them?
I don't play bartz but this is the standard whine of the underdogs in all servers ... the power clans are bad, they lock down content, we can't have fun and because content is on lockdown we can't compete.
Honest answer? Go fight them ...make alliances and do it, 300 S graders with no epics can easily kill 100 S80s with epics. That's how power clans became power clans, they fought the preceding status quo. It creeps me out when people expect to be gifted epic raids because it's "fair" to give them a chance to compete.
I don't play bartz but this is the standard whine of the underdogs in all servers ... the power clans are bad, they lock down content, we can't have fun and because content is on lockdown we can't compete.
Lol, you've missed the point again.
Having no competition is bad for everyone, including power clans. Asking for changes that are directed to reduction of competition is stupid.
Honest answer? Go fight them ...make alliances and do it, 300 S graders with no epics can easily kill 100 S80s with epics. That's how power clans became power clans, they fought the preceding status quo. It creeps me out when people expect to be gifted epic raids because it's "fair" to give them a chance to compete.
And how does it relate to "we were the first who killed Tiat 10 times, we should have been made the owners of this place for as long as we want" whine? :confused:
It's not a whine, the system as is clearly doesn't work. On the populated servers nobody even contemplates farming for crystals because of the sheer number of lvl 1s there. If you want I can get you screenshot of it later, it's trully ridiculous, it reminds of the days when trial accounts didn't have the shop/trade/drop limits and whenever we had an event there were armies of lvl1s ready to farm it.
The rest is an opinion, which I happen to share. It's ridiculous for x people to go kill a raid 10 times and keep it dead to keep the seeds open and geting no benefits from it. Like hellbound. Specific clans on all servers opened hellbound, leveled it, got s80, people cried that it was wrong and now everybody can get to HB with a 5 minute quest. Took us weeks to first get there, why should we do the work and everybody reap the benefits? Why don't you go try and kill tiat? It's instanced, nobody will bother you.
Imo the farming part should be instanced too. Say u need a 2-9 man party (75+) and u got 130min to farm energy. That way lvl 1 toons couldnt enter and neutral guys could farm without getting in the way of those who actually kill Tiat.
It's not a whine, the system as is clearly doesn't work. On the populated servers nobody even contemplates farming for crystals because of the sheer number of lvl 1s there.
I don't think there is an argument about it. The only point the people seem to difer in is what clans those lvl 1 toons actually belong to.
The rest is an opinion, which I happen to share. It's ridiculous for x people to go kill a raid 10 times and keep it dead to keep the seeds open and geting no benefits from it. Like hellbound.
It's actually how the game was designed from the beginning. It's why the B-grade mats drop from A-grade mobs, for example.
NCsoft has been designing this game so it were easier to follow in levelling than to lead. And it was done for a reason. The reason why the game is still alive and well in Korea.
It's ridiculous for x people to go kill a raid 10 times and keep it dead to keep the seeds open and geting no benefits from it.
Getting Icarus and Vesper full drops on a regular basis is "no benefits"?
When I was playing in beta, bots was the worst complaint. 5 years later... bots are still a main complaint. Cheers NC... You haven't changed at all since last met. How conforting...
When I was playing in beta, bots was the worst complaint. 5 years later... bots are still a main complaint. Cheers NC... You haven't changed at all since last met. How conforting...
There were no bots in beta, there were farmers that was the complaint. It was more fun back then, at least farmers fought back sometimes, bots just move to the next mob
I don't play bartz but this is the standard whine of the underdogs in all servers ... the power clans are bad, they lock down content, we can't have fun and because content is on lockdown we can't compete.
Honest answer? Go fight them ...make alliances and do it, 300 S graders with no epics can easily kill 100 S80s with epics. That's how power clans became power clans, they fought the preceding status quo. It creeps me out when people expect to be gifted epic raids because it's "fair" to give them a chance to compete.
/end rant
I actually agree with the sentiment here. If anyone/any group doesn't like what the biggest clans control then they must figure out a way to compete.
Unfortunately, this is not going to be pretty to watch!
Those bots this thread mentions? They aren't there from some level 6 neutral clan who have 5 players at 76!
The "higher" (highest?) clans in some cases have some absolutely legit players in them. But it's not an exaggeration to say that most players have seen that the highest clans cheat in every way possible every minute of every day.
So how does the 2nd tier (not-quite-uber) clan compete? They will cheat. Shamelessly and non-stop....just like those before them. And the cycle will continue.
Every clan that rises to the top will then try to desperately try to claim they were totally legit.
I actually agree with the sentiment here. If anyone/any group doesn't like what the biggest clans control then they must figure out a way to compete.
Then you have missed the point too.
Those people don't need to compete. They can join the biggest clans, they can forget about PvP, they can quit the game. They are free to do it, but everything from the list makes the game less enjoyable to everyone, including the biggest clan members.
On the other hand, when those "2nd tier clans" bot their levels/gear to compete, at least it can promise some fun for the members of the current biggest clans (and for the botters themselves) in the future.
There are so many posts, I am lazy to quote them all.
I didn't miss your point, Trensharo. I have a different perspective on it.
Others of you may not understand the level 1s and why they are there: It is to weasel their way in. It is because they can buy the agations with red stones (I don't have a problem with this; getting the permanent one thru Suffering is not that easy), they can go in, steal rooms to farm the stones, challenging themselves to be killed.. they pop outside and port back in... meanwhile, who killed them goes red and has to be cleansed or become permared. The only way to truly take care of them is to kill them inside and then outside as they spawn, as then they have to go back to the main air station and boat themselves back out. That someone can summon a boat that isn't level 75, imo that is wrong. That they can equip an agation lower than level 75, that is wrong.
Those of you who did not enjoy my metaphor are probably those who never feel they have to work for anything. Someone said it was a bad metaphor because food is sustanance to everyone. Isn't that what the QQ is about? That everyone has a right to have these stones? Well, that isn't so true, is it. You have the opportunity to have these stones, but have you taken the necessary actions to get them? NO. You want to feed off the efforts of others and give them no respect for opening the doors. Why should they respect you in return?
Anyway, from what I can see, Tiat and the Seed of Destruction was bugged on all the servers and now it is back to where it is supposed to be. Hopefully, also, the level requirement was also corrected. In my mind, the wearing of the agation and the summoning of the boat should have the level limit of Gracia... i.e. 75, which is also the level you need in order to learn how to fly.
The other thing I forgot to mention, this "catch up" argument is just so weak. Many in my clan knew the update was coming and knew what was going to change and be available. They were already gearing up, farming mats, leveling up, and preparing so that we could go after the new content.
Were those complaining that they can't catch up doing the same? Was the new update a surprise to you? When you figured out, finally, what you could get from doing the instances and new bosses, is that when you started to whine about how come you don't get to do it and the leading clans on your servers can and do and feel they have a right to monopolize it while they farm what they need?
And I feel helpless to the people here who think that everything should be at a standstill and equal mark because there are people who have joined the game later than others and for some reason you think that everyone else should be at a standstill. Im at a loss for words.
Gratz, you've missed the point again.
Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. But please, tell me... what is the point that is eluding me so well? Simple words please, obviously I'm easily lead astray.
This is the only point I've seen you make:
This is a game, it is supposed to be fun to at least some of the participants. This is a PvP game, you are supposed to get fun in PvP competition. If you take a lead and lock the resources in the game, so they aren't accessible to other participants, those become even less competitive. How having no competition in PvP competition game is fun to you? To them?
The main xp/resource areas of L2 have historically been locked by the main pvp clans of the game on each server. I wasn't around for the heyday of Cruma Tower, but I think that was the first area, then DVC, then IT, then HB, now Gracia's Seed of Destruction. This game has always been "might makes right."
What point you miss is that fighting to control those areas, getting to the bosses first and completing them, that is where the pvp fun is.
If it is not fun for you, to compete and fight for the hunting areas you want, then you don't need elemental stones for anything other than selling them for adena gain, and you can simply wait your turn then. You don't necessarily need to hold back until you have the right gear, etc. Many have succeeded without it. But you do need to have the intention to get it done. I think it is here where you lack.
I don't think there is an argument about it. The only point the people seem to difer in is what clans those lvl 1 toons actually belong to.
It's actually how the game was designed from the beginning. It's why the B-grade mats drop from A-grade mobs, for example.
NCsoft has been designing this game so it were easier to follow in levelling than to lead. And it was done for a reason. The reason why the game is still alive and well in Korea.
This is simply hopeful opinion on your part, as far as I'm concerned. There is nothing I can see in the design of this game that makes following 'easier' than leading.
The first ones to get, using your b-grade example, an A-grade weapon control the best weapon and the first, highest prices for selling them to those who follow. If by "easier" you mean that those who follow simply have to buy it rather than work for it--yes, that one myopic definition of "easier" is somewhat accurate.
But in the larger picture, before the first clan to make multiple A-grade weapons sell even one at an inflated price, they get to USE all the first higher weapons against everyone lower (they have the first, best & highest augments, and attributes on weapon and armor, etc. as well).
In reality that causes two immediate consequences in our game.
First, a number of bandwagon players immediately try to get into that higher, first clan. Many of them are recruited. This strengthens the first clan and depletes multiple weaker clans below. The thinking of the players jumping on the bandwagon of the first clan is "hey, if we go there we'll get better stuff like they have--see all you chumps here in wannabe land laterz!"
The 2nd immediate consequence is that those follow-on clans who buy the A-grade weapons overspend for them and then try to use them...providing amusing (few, incapable) targets to the now expanded 1st clan.
You could even argue that the better weapons going to the 1st clan allow them to powerlevel their new recruits quickly past the competition since they have opened new hunting grounds where only they can effectively play!
The 1st clan uses their advantage to gain more castles, to fund powerful alt clans to compete even MORE with the 2nd tier clans (and siphon off even more of their players to weaken them further), to gain valuable items and artifacts and amass adena. That 1st clan gets MORE powerful and has MORE adena--and a bigger and bigger gap widens between them and everyone else.
Sure, as in all things, those at the top of the curve pull the curve up with them so there is some eventual benefit that trickles down to lowbies from the efforts of those first clans. But short of internal strife or apathy--nothing can dislodge those top tier clans who control 1/2 of a server (or more). Yes, years later, players like me come along who can get an A-grade weapon now for 70m adena with no effort. Yeah for me--but so much time has passed and so much content been introduced that my 'cool, A-grade weapon' is useless in the important aspects that the game now has as features.
As for the lvl 1 bots from this thread--my guess (since we'll probably never know for sure) is that they are not from the so-called 2nd tier clans. My guess would be they are the super-uber, absolute top clan(s) solidifying their position at the top of the food chain. Which is their right, btw. They cheated their way into "1st place" and thus control the most optimal cheating opportunities in the future.
Are some of them from the 2nd tier clans? Perhaps. But most of that activity will probably involve the clan with the most castles/heroes (power and/or force)--just like most bot activity in the best circumstances in the game always have!
NCSoft hasn't been developing L2 with any long-term goals in mind. They have been WoW-ifying it for about 4 chronicles. That is not in any effort to retain competitiveness--that is simply an effort on their part to make subscriptions last longer.
Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. But please, tell me... what is the point that is eluding me so well? Simple words please, obviously I'm easily lead astray.
The point is: if it's a game you play to compete, then having more people that are able to compete with you in the game is better for you.
The main xp/resource areas of L2 have historically been locked by the main pvp clans of the game on each server. I wasn't around for the heyday of Cruma Tower, but I think that was the first area, then DVC, then IT, then HB, now Gracia's Seed of Destruction. This game has always been "might makes right."
Not on all servers. Hindemith (now Phoenix) has managed to be healthy for a long time. And something tells me that Korean servers are closer to Hindemith in this regard.
What point you miss is that fighting to control those areas, getting to the bosses first and completing them, that is where the pvp fun is.
Sure thing. That's why people (highlevel, well-equipped people) were recently moving to Phoenix. Because there was competition at the moment.
If it is not fun for you, to compete and fight for the hunting areas you want, then you don't need elemental stones for anything other than selling them for adena gain, and you can simply wait your turn then. You don't necessarily need to hold back until you have the right gear, etc. Many have succeeded without it. But you do need to have the intention to get it done. I think it is here where you lack.
Me? I don't play to compete. I play to cooperate. Farming stones in the seeds is about the last thing I would do. But then, Cleft is another story ;)
The point is: if it's a game you play to compete, then having more people that are able to compete with you in the game is better for you.
Your misconception is that in order to compete with someone you have to equal their gear/levels. That's not competing, competing is i want your antharas raid so I ll do what I can with what I got to get it. What you want is charity.
Your misconception is that in order to compete with someone you have to equal their gear/levels.
Sorry, but it's not mine. However, it could be something that you might want to hear from me.
While what I'm actually saying is that in order to compete with someone in a game you need them to want to compete with you.
That's not competing, competing is i want your antharas raid so I ll do what I can with what I got to get it. What you want is charity.
You've missed the point again. But I'm not surprised.
an antharas raid isnt something you'd WANT to participate in? or to foil?
Bordrx has it right... competition means going out and striving against another party for an otherwise common goal. whether or not either party is stronger or more capable is beside the question.
Sorry, but it's not mine. However, it could be something that you might want to hear from me.
While what I'm actually saying is that in order to compete with someone in a game you need them to want to compete with you.
You've missed the point again. But I'm not surprised.
So basically you are agreeing that underdogs don't really want to compete, they just enjoy crying about how unfair it is that clan A has 500 epics and they have none. OK. Thanks, that was my point too.
an antharas raid isnt something you'd WANT to participate in? or to foil?
Frankly? Not. And I wouldn't think I'd have any problem to join a raid of some of the top clans if I really wanted it (I've got too many friends and too little enemies for all those years I play). And what I definitely don't want is just to foil someone's else raid, that's for sure.
But again, we aren't speaking about me. I don't farm the seeds, neither do I whine about my perceived "right" to control everything once I've got on top.
Bordrx has it right... competition means going out and striving against another party for an otherwise common goal. whether or not either party is stronger or more capable is beside the question.
I know what competition means. What you with BordX fail to understand is that it's a recreational game, and no one here is obliged to compete with you.
So basically you are agreeing that underdogs don't really want to compete, they just enjoy crying about how unfair it is that clan A has 500 epics and they have none.
Nope. But as I've already said, I'm not surprised...
no, youre right, youre not obliged. nobody is obliged, thats why ive always said its a pve game with pvp as a spice effect.
but come now, put yourself in an end game clan with end game power and end game characters. when everyone shouts "CHAAAAARGE!!!!!" do you sit there and say "nahhh, in a few mins im watching Star Trek" or do you chime in and charge? YOU CHARGE!! if youre going to play the game, PLAY it. idling around isnt going to get you to a level that will make competition EASIER. it widens the gap. Armenua point out quite correctly, if youre going to GET your 300 weapon and 600 armor set you had best put up the time to do it else you really wont get it.
the people that DO compete are the people that say "enemy clan x is going to siege antharas, we can foil and overtake if we band together". competition doesnt pay off to sit in town and wait until antharas gets flung at towns by GM's for lack of participation.
you cant retort with "you fail to understand" when you say things like "you dont have to compete" because essentially you DO have to compete. even in town where there is no pvp, you have to compete. if you don't match prices or undercut, you wont move product and earn adena; youll be idling in town long enough for others to overtake whatever spot you used to earn the thing youre selling in the first place. selling a stem for 5000a is about as useless as selling for 5m. youre loosing time that could otherwise be spent earning MORE stems to sell for 200a and balance out whatever profit you made selling at 5k AND earning exp to boot. selling cheaper and spending less time on your butt in giran makes you level faster AND makes you more money in the long run.
this is the worlds most elite pvp game, if that doesnt spell competition on the HIGHEST level i dont know what does.
Meouw, I used to be in a clan from a guy who rerolled on Lionna from Hindemith. He was in clan for about 6 months, then went back to Hindemith. He told me a tale of what the Hindemith people did when there was a main clan that was in control of everything. The planned for i think it was 3 months, hording supplies and creating strategies and gearing up, etc., and finally all hell broke loose, and they swarmed the sieges and took control themselves, defeating the big bad top clan. I thought it was a great story... and it is what inspired me to move to the pvp part of this game from my "neutrality."
I guess from how you speak, you were not a part of that.
but come now, put yourself in an end game clan with end game power and end game characters. when everyone shouts "CHAAAAARGE!!!!!" do you sit there and say "nahhh, in a few mins im watching Star Trek" or do you chime in and charge? YOU CHARGE!! if youre going to play the game, PLAY it. idling around isnt going to get you to a level that will make competition EASIER. it widens the gap. Armenua point out quite correctly, if youre going to GET your 300 weapon and 600 armor set you had best put up the time to do it else you really wont get it.
the people that DO compete are the people that say "enemy clan x is going to siege antharas, we can foil and overtake if we band together". competition doesnt pay off to sit in town and wait until antharas gets flung at towns by GM's for lack of participation.
you cant retort with "you fail to understand" when you say things like "you dont have to compete" because essentially you DO have to compete.
Well, but if there is no one around that would be able to foil our raid (everyone else is underskilled/undergeared/underlevelled), what sort of PvP fun around Antharas should I expect?
even in town where there is no pvp, you have to compete. if you don't match prices or undercut, you wont move product and earn adena;
Well, what are you saying here is not completely correct, but still... that's why I am against the idea of the auction house. Because it makes a small trader unable to compete with big ones.
this is the worlds most elite pvp game, if that doesnt spell competition on the HIGHEST level i dont know what does.
I have no idea what meaning you put into the word "elite", but definitely not mine.
lazyness didnt get anyone a Vesper Set.
Vesper Set is a bit of pixels... owned by NCsoft. If you play for a Vesper set, I feel pity for you.
Meouw, I used to be in a clan from a guy who rerolled on Lionna from Hindemith. He was in clan for about 6 months, then went back to Hindemith. He told me a tale of what the Hindemith people did when there was a main clan that was in control of everything. The planned for i think it was 3 months, hording supplies and creating strategies and gearing up, etc., and finally all hell broke loose, and they swarmed the sieges and took control themselves, defeating the big bad top clan. I thought it was a great story... and it is what inspired me to move to the pvp part of this game from my "neutrality."
I guess from how you speak, you were not a part of that.
Meh.... i heard it was because you breathed fire and you were getting tired of toasting marshmellows.
that "bit of pixels" comprises everything in the game. you can say that about Adena, you can say that about skills, you can say that about Damage. if you dont play for pixels you really have no reason to play at all, i suggest you find a more constructive use of time like making artificial teeth or becoming an architect.
re: Well, but if there is no one around that would be able to foil our raid (everyone else is underskilled/undergeared/underlevelled), what sort of PvP fun around Antharas should I expect?
"nobody" and "undergeared" are two different sets of scenarios. "nobody" will mean no pvp to keep your raid; "undergeared" means actually having to defend yourself AND defeat the boss. even fighting undergeared foes, this is fun pvp because youre winning. fighting against a top-tier set of players is also fun because youre actually seeing how focused and how driven a player can get. youre looking at a player who's role you may one day fill should they leave or move on to higher level things. dying isnt fun, i'll admit, but its the witness of the sheer power of the players that is what makes pvp fun on both sides.
maybe you also didnt know this but many large powerhouse clans pvp each other tournament style after a raid finishes in order to determine winners of the boss jewel / miscellaneous loot like SB's and A gear.
I guess from how you speak, you were not a part of that.
Of course I wasn't. I joined the server in the beginning of C4 (when the time of S-graders, prophecies and heroes started).
This is a PvP game, you are supposed to get fun in PvP competition. If you take a lead and lock the resources in the game, so they aren't accessible to other participants, those become even less competitive. How having no competition in PvP competition game is fun to you? To them?
You are wrong. Very wrong.
This game is not a PvP game.
This game is designed for PvE with PvP as an afterthought. That might not be how it's played here, on the NA/EU servers, but if you look at the core game design it is obvious that this is designed for PvE.
What has been changed in PvP in the last few updates? small things here and there, the biggest ones worth mentioning are territory wars and the introduction of fame.
We play the game differently than it's intended. And we're not a major concern for the developers because we're a single digit percentage of their overall income from this game. That is why we have these "problems". The game is not designed for our playstyle, and the devs aren't going to be paid for making content for us when we aren't bigger than we are.
that "bit of pixels" comprises everything in the game. you can say that about Adena, you can say that about skills, you can say that about Damage. if you dont play for pixels you really have no reason to play at all, i suggest you find a more constructive use of time like making artificial teeth or becoming an architect.
I play for people I meet. That's why I play an MMO. And, frankly, I already have pretty much of "constructive use" of time at work.
"nobody" and "undergeared" are two different sets of scenarios. "nobody" will mean no pvp to keep your raid; "undergeared" means actually having to defend yourself AND defeat the boss. even fighting undergeared foes, this is fun pvp because youre winning.
If they don't feel it futile to come.
maybe you also didnt know this but many large powerhouse clans pvp each other tournament style after a raid finishes in order to determine winners of the boss jewel / miscellaneous loot like SB's and A gear.
On which server does it happen?
You are wrong. Very wrong.
This game is not a PvP game.
This game is designed for PvE with PvP as an afterthought. That might not be how it's played here, on the NA/EU servers, but if you look at the core game design it is obvious that this is designed for PvE.
If you think a bit, you'll see it actually works for my case.
We play the game differently than it's intended. And we're not a major concern for the developers because we're a single digit percentage of their overall income from this game. That is why we have these "problems". The game is not designed for our playstyle, and the devs aren't going to be paid for making content for us when we aren't bigger than we are.
Well, the game is designed for my playstyle. Now, if only all those lvl 1 to lvl 85 bots were being banned...
I play for people I meet. That's why I play an MMO. And, frankly, I already have pretty much of "constructive use" of time at work.
If they don't feel it futile to come.
On which server does it happen?
1. meet people in an MMO? surely your time would be better invested on match.com or random Facebook encounters in such FB apps as Mafia Wars. if you dont want your pixels, i'll gladly take them.
2. futility is really nonfactor in foiling a raid. if you manage to kill rezzers, buffer, rechargers, healers etc... youre contributing to the short-life lived by the raid crew. you dont have to storm the front lines and stand beside Antharas tanking the DD's. people dont react to juggling multiple targets easily, its rather easy to foil a raid because most of the time theres nobody set up as protection, no enforcement crew.
3. what server DOESNT it happen on? top tier clans dont hand out these things like candy from a Grandpa to any old shmoe in the clan. theyre given to most respected, most valued, most contributing players. when you see them for sale, you see them for sale by Farmer clans or from alts who betrayed the clan to begin with.
why dont you see the top-tier clans complaining about Farmers? cause they own the areas the farmers CANT control. and when the top-tier clans WANT something they TAKE it. its pretty simple.
If you think a bit, you'll see it actually works for my case.No I don't see it. Please elaborate. And what exactly is your "case"
Well, the game is designed for my playstyle. Now, if only all those lvl 1 to lvl 85 bots were being banned...Obviously it wasn't. Or you wouldn't whining like you are.
Not really, you just repeated you don't get my point without actually making one. If your point is that you deserve access to all content without actually having to fight for it, then yeah I don't get your point either.
Not really, you just repeated you don't get my point without actually making one.
Hello? :(
Let's see:
Having no competition is bad for everyone, including power clans. Asking for changes that are directed to reduction of competition is stupid.
Then you have missed the point too.
Those people don't need to compete. They can join the biggest clans, they can forget about PvP, they can quit the game. They are free to do it, but everything from the list makes the game less enjoyable to everyone, including the biggest clan members.
The point is: if it's a game you play to compete, then having more people that are able to compete with you in the game is better for you.
While what I'm actually saying is that in order to compete with someone in a game you need them to want to compete with you.
You've missed the point again. But I'm not surprised.
Need more?
If your point is that you deserve access to all content without actually having to fight for it
Hello??? :mad:
So, in your infinite wisdom, Mr/Ms Meouw, what would you propose is the ideal way to promote competition from the top clans on each server?
I really want to hear it, because I'm sure it is laced with something along the lines of "whatever you have worked for should be spread amongst all the players in the game without prejudice" kind of thing, which is a communist/socialist kind of sentiment. It has no place in this game. But if that is what it takes for you to compete, I'm afraid we're gonna miss you, but don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.
There is a coexistence in this game between those who want to pvp and those who dont. But once you step into the pvp arena, whether that is with "peer" clans or not, you are in it. You will be expected to step up and be counted. If you prefer to not pvp, then don't. Get yourself into a pve clan and stay there. But the biggest point being that will preclude you from entering into the highest level xp areas and thereby obtaining through xp the mats and other essential parts for the high-level gears, as these particular areas are of interest to the PvP clans and are fought for. It's a choice.
You missing the whole point, people are exploiting this area. And the way was design allow all kind of cheaters to gather there. I rather have this area close and only those who actually kill the bosses to open it in the first place allow to enter, rather than having bunch of cheaters abusing and exploiting it.
But maybe the whole area is design so botters go there and leave their xp grounds, so legit people can actually hunt without problems.
You missing the whole point, people are exploiting this area. And the way was design allow all kind of cheaters to gather there. I rather have this area close and only those who actually kill the bosses to open it in the first place allow to enter, rather than having bunch of cheaters abusing and exploiting it.
But maybe the whole area is design so botters go there and leave their xp grounds, so legit people can actually hunt without problems.
I don't think anyone is saying that the current way it works is correct. What those guys are pointlessly arguing about is something different. It's easy to get confused though considering people like to continually put words in the mouths of others to give weight to their own argument...
I don't think anyone is saying that the current way it works is correct. What those guys are pointlessly arguing about is something different. It's easy to get confused though considering people like to continually put words in the mouths of others to give weight to their own argument...
A. I couldn't be more surprised to hear that Spud is a Great American. I certainly agree--but none-the-less it surprised me.
B. Armie--you have clearly figured out that Meouw is simply a troll (See Oloroae's post in Off topic: Don't feed the trolls...describes Meouw perfectly). He/she is SC450 and a host of others we've known. No point. No point of view. No belief to defend. Their purpose is to counter argue whatever others share simply to cause upset and reaction. Sometimes it is housed in passionate lines, sometimes in flaming accusations, sometimes in thoughtful discourse....but the only PURPOSE is to disagree until others react. Like SC450 (I actually believe Meouw is his alt account--they certainly cut and paste and reply in exactly the same manner!) if he said "Aden is too small" and you made a good argument for 'smallness'--he would simply turn around and argue "Aden is too big", without a blush or explanation. You'll find it hard to discuss Meouw's philosophy because he/she actually doesn't have one (lol).
I actually like Meouw, I just wonder how much energy he have left concerning this thread and how far he can keep posting and replying back and forward =D.
Bah! you all fail! The film reference was Tropic Thunder ^_^
Well to be fair I did say the first person to get it out of context would get a prize (which goes to Armenua incidentally). I guess It's appropriate because reward for failure seems to play a large role at NC Soft.
There is an easy solution make it necessary for you to be 75 to enter the area and make it a rez impossible area meaning you have to go back to town or clan hall after death.
Even bots will get tired of coming back after awhile and you keep the "pvp" open. Allowing level 1 toons to farm the place negate pvp.
Not being able to rez? What? No no no. Just not letting them in or allowing them to equip the agathion until the Level 75 requirment is all that is necessary.
Doesn't stop bots, and what not being able to rez is against pvp?
I think this would encourage pvp loser goes home winner stays.
would YOU like to be on the Loosing end of some -EXP ?
didnt think so. nobody will risk exp in a place where you dont get it back easily. killing birds to level just isnt fast or effective. to gain it back you'd have to leave gracia or actually do the seed again to face the garbage mobs.
not saying its a good idea either way, but a level 1 has a LOT less to loose than a level 75 (for that matter 85) when you cant be rezzed.
and before you start on me about how a level 85 would loose in pvp, ask yourself how many players out there really know their class. you know as well as i do that pvp programs, cp spam, and crazy input hardware is what makes the ultra clans the Ultra clans. without them you simply dont stand a chance. a legit pvp'ing level 85 CAN and WILL loose to any "hardcore" "player" 5 levels lower.
not being able to rez is not the answer.
give it normal rules (not a safe zone, not instanced, level req 75) and youll see more pvp. cripple a zone with instancing, time restrictions, or rez restrictions and you just open up the zone to Bots. bots can be told to log in at specific times (see: manor) and bots can hide easily in instances. bots also "dont care bout the exp loss if i die cause i can get it back no prob / cause i dont play for the pve" .
Slycutter, have you been to Destruction? Not being able to rez is stupid. There are no mobs there when stones can be farmed. There is no xp. It's just endless hours of farming. Not being able to rez isnt the answer in any way.
The level restriction conducive to the area is the best way to go.
lvl limit shlevel limit ... train drivers have hundrends of lvl 75 chars they can divert there if it's more profitable for them that some random catacomb.
IMO it should be linked to tiat, you got the "badge" you can farm crystals, you don't tough luck try again. And it should be the same with Ekimus and infinity.
Not being able to rez? What? No no no. Just not letting them in or allowing them to equip the agathion until the Level 75 requirment is all that is necessary.
Really should be 78+, but NCSoft mucked that up by putting the only dependable Divine/Wind stone drops in Hellbound, which is a 78+ leveling area.
Too bad, their stupidity always comes back to make things more complicated in the end.
Back to my home country, so I'm able to activate my main account :p
You missing the whole point, people are exploiting this area. And the way was design allow all kind of cheaters to gather there.
K, here we go again:
I don't think there is an argument about it. The only point the people seem to difer in is what clans those lvl 1 toons actually belong to.
So, in your infinite wisdom, Mr/Ms Meouw, what would you propose is the ideal way to promote competition from the top clans on each server?
Split up. It will also help you learn the difference between ingame competition and IRL conflicts.
And please don't tell me than making a second clan on the same server is harder than moving the whole clan onto Phoenix ;)
I really want to hear it, because I'm sure it is laced with something along the lines of "whatever you have worked for should be spread amongst all the players in the game without prejudice" kind of thing, which is a communist/socialist kind of sentiment. It has no place in this game.
...designed by Koreans for Koreans? :D Nope, you are wrong. There is plenty.
But actually, it hasn't much to do with Korean mentality, it's just common sense. A game that boosts winners so that they are harder to catch up by everyone else won't be selling in the long run. Any sane developer won't be making such design mistakes (well, the really dumb ones could do that just once).
There is a coexistence in this game between those who want to pvp and those who dont.
Wrong again.
Of course, there are people that are ready to PvP no matter what their chances are. And of course there are people that don't want to PvP at all. But neither of these group is large enough to matter.
Whereas most of the people are basically the same: they want to win, but don't want to lose. If the PvP happens to be unfavorable to them, they temporarily forget about it, they join smaller-scale alliances, or level untagged, or even transfer to a dead server to grind their levels/wealth here (if they expect the PvP situation on that server to be more favorable to them). Eventually, they may return to PvP, or may find the game too boring and quit.
And there are three problems with it:
1. They might not be able to catch up.
2. They are effectively removed trom the server's PvP pool for the time they are trying to catch up.
3. When they feel ready to return into some PvP faction on the server, there might already be no real competition there.
But still, this is essentialy the same people like that are currently staying on top (well, except for that cheaters - if not regularly banned - and nolifers can usually reach the top faster than law-abiding family-devoted professional people).
But once you step into the pvp arena, whether that is with "peer" clans or not, you are in it. You will be expected to step up and be counted. If you prefer to not pvp, then don't. Get yourself into a pve clan and stay there. But the biggest point being that will preclude you from entering into the highest level xp areas and thereby obtaining through xp the mats and other essential parts for the high-level gears, as these particular areas are of interest to the PvP clans and are fought for. It's a choice.
Whoa, that's quite a dead server you are playing on. :eek: :D
Is it really about PvP or not? Even neutral clans could kill Tiat if they would want to (and since its an instanced boss they wouldnt get in the way of PvP clans).
The only logical solution would be to make the farming part also instanced. Then it could either be linked to your CC (so the 45 ppl that killed Tiat together got the same farm instance until their /instancezone gets reset) or its a 130min (like Tiat) farm instance for any 2-9 ppl group of 75+ players.
While I prefer the first solution, the second one wont screw with NCs dear bots, so everyone would be happy...
Is it really about PvP or not? Even neutral clans could kill Tiat if they would want to (and since its an instanced boss they wouldnt get in the way of PvP clans).
...
The answer to your question is "yes--the uber pvp clans think they are the only ones in the game!" (lol).
This really is a PvP game and it's highest forms involve PvP. That is pretty much fact.
"CAN" a neutral do end game things? Of course. But the deal is (and rightfully so imo), they can't then try to hide behind neutrality.
The reality is that most of the time even if you declare yourself neutral and everyone knows you are and have been neutral, as soon as you enter the "wrong" (or "right"-depending upon your perspective) area or feature--you will be warred.
Your neutrality will mean nothing.
The way I see things, you can say you're neutral till the cows come home--but when you attempt truly end-game content that puts you in conflict with the uber PvP clans who 'own' the rights to those things..your neutrality will end.
They generally defend them pretty well against everyone. So end of the day, you have to have sufficient force to try to defend yourself or make a political concession (which requires you to declare yourselves and ends your neutrality anyway) when you DECIDE TO ENTER HIGHEST END GAME CONTENT.
If you think your 20 lvl 78 toons can just waltz into those spots (or onto a seige field to compete for a castle) then you aren't simply neutral--you're misinformed! (lol)
The answer to your question is "yes--the uber pvp clans think they are the only ones in the game!" (lol).
This really is a PvP game and it's highest forms involve PvP. That is pretty much fact.
"CAN" a neutral do end game things? Of course. But the deal is (and rightfully so imo), they can't then try to hide behind neutrality.
The reality is that most of the time even if you declare yourself neutral and everyone knows you are and have been neutral, as soon as you enter the "wrong" (or "right"-depending upon your perspective) area or feature--you will be warred.
Your neutrality will mean nothing.
The way I see things, you can say you're neutral till the cows come home--but when you attempt truly end-game content that puts you in conflict with the uber PvP clans who 'own' the rights to those things..your neutrality will end.
They generally defend them pretty well against everyone. So end of the day, you have to have sufficient force to try to defend yourself or make a political concession (which requires you to declare yourselves and ends your neutrality anyway) when you DECIDE TO ENTER HIGHEST END GAME CONTENT.
If you think your 20 lvl 78 toons can just waltz into those spots (or onto a seige field to compete for a castle) then you aren't simply neutral--you're misinformed! (lol)
which part of tiat is instanced anybody can go kill it didn't you understand? If you feel like killing Tiat, get 45 people together and go go kill nobody will know and nobody will war you for it
"CAN" a neutral do end game things? Of course. But the deal is (and rightfully so imo), they can't then try to hide behind neutrality.
Again, it depends on the particular server.
It will also help you learn the difference between ingame competition and IRL conflicts. While I find it sweet that you have concerns about my spiritual growth and maturity, it really is pretty healthy as it is. ^^
Split up. And please don't tell me than making a second clan on the same server is harder than moving the whole clan onto Phoenix
You are pretty funny. Why should we split up, especially when there are enough opposing clans to band together to defeat us? Will just take a little organization, maturity required for standing back from differences and working together for a common goal. I won’t even mention how splitting up a level 11 clan with all the units, skills, and wards just doesn’t compare to a few clans giving up their differences and working together., and bringing Bartz back to a healthy competitive server.
...designed by Koreans for Koreans? Nope, you are wrong. There is plenty. But actually, it hasn't much to do with Korean mentality, it's just common sense. A game that boosts winners so that they are harder to catch up by everyone else won't be selling in the long run. Any sane developer won't be making such design mistakes (well, the really dumb ones could do that just once).
A. Just because you have a different perspective than me doesn’t mean you are right and I am wrong, and you are pretty shortsighted in this, imo.
B. As has been pointed out by numerous players on these forums over the years, everyone has their own play style. If you decide mid-game that you want to enter the world of competition, work towards the goal and do what it takes to get there because you want the things that require higher level competition. It is not really the fault of the game nor the players who decided that at earlier levels to do it, that you took your time in doing so. It isn’t that hard to catch up, you know. Yes, it takes effort and determination, but it is possible to do.
I said: "There is a coexistence in this game between those who want to pvp and those who dont."
You said:
...Wrong again. I will repeat this again: Just because you have a different perspective doesn’t mean I am wrong and you are right.
...Of course, there are people that are ready to PvP no matter what their chances are. And of course there are people that don't want to PvP at all. But neither of these group is large enough to matter. I guess you don’t pay attention to the ingame world around you. This happens all the time. In fact for like 70 of my levels I was able to live in a separate reality from the pvp world completely. It is very easy to do. The problem comes in that when you decide you want to participate in the activities that require the pvp-oriented clan, like epic bosses, high level xp areas, then you have to join that world. Just like in business, when you want to enter into a competitive market, you have to be prepared to come against opposition and people that will try to get in your way.
...Whoa, that's quite a dead server you are playing on.Well, it is not quite dead yet. There is hope still!!! We are coming to a point where the game will get fun and interesting, all depending on certain clans and their decisions eluded to above.
Ncsoft can do nothing about bots until the make the game so that it doesn't demand them. In its current state its so hard to obtain gold, gear, high levels and many other items that people resort to bot programs and buy adena from virtual currency sites.
I don't see why people come here and complain about the bot issue, bots only exist because Lineage 2 requires you to play it or choose real life, at least its the only meaningful way to make progress at high levels. No anti bot button, number of gms or anything can solve the bot issue without addressing the real issue. If they made things easier to obtain then there wouldn't be a huge bot issue.
Ncsoft can do nothing about bots until the make the game so that it doesn't demand them. In its current state its so hard to obtain gold, gear, high levels and many other items that people resort to bot programs and buy adena from virtual currency sites.
I don't see why people come here and complain about the bot issue, bots only exist because Lineage 2 requires you to play it or choose real life, at least its the only meaningful way to make progress at high levels. No anti bot button, number of gms or anything can solve the bot issue without addressing the real issue. If they made things easier to obtain then there wouldn't be a huge bot issue.
Botting is not needed in L2. People bot because they want to be at the top without having to work for it. The life excuse is BS, botters always brag about how good and exciting their lives are and yet they are the ones most worried about a game and how they can be at the top.
which part of tiat is instanced anybody can go kill it didn't you understand? If you feel like killing Tiat, get 45 people together and go go kill nobody will know and nobody will war you for it
I never said it was instanced--what are you talking about Atropy?
I said, if you try as a neutral to enter much of the content considered end game ("entered" meaning "to play" or "go to") then you may not be considered neutral by the largest PvP clans.
Krissa is right--this is probably server dependent. On old Lionna you would get warred as a clan for WALKING on a seige field with one toon, of course the major PvP clan was often bored and looking for new groups to attack :)
I'll qualify it by saying......"then you MAY not be considered neutral"....so as I said above, when making those choices as a non-Uber clan, you MAY have to enter political arrangements or be prepared to defend yourself.
Maybe there are servers where the 1-3 uber clans welcome competition and see the value in allowing competition. That has not been my experience in L2 so far.
A massive clan of uber-toons, well versed in PvP, with all the best stuff is an amazing force. When those toons show up most of the rest of us just die.
Botting is not needed in L2. People bot because they want to be at the top without having to work for it. The life excuse is BS, botters always brag about how good and exciting their lives are and yet they are the ones most worried about a game and how they can be at the top.
The funny thing is no matter if I kill a bot chinese or american they are always back up and at it within an hour. It seems like the people who run bot trains to 'have a life' end up just sitting at their computer either playing some other game and farming adena or sitting at their computer doing something else anyway ready to come assist their bot train haha. Whats the point? Why not just play the game, so stupid.
Botting is not needed in L2. People bot because they want to be at the top without having to work for it. The life excuse is BS, botters always brag about how good and exciting their lives are and yet they are the ones most worried about a game and how they can be at the top.
Its not BS. Unless you can't reconcile the fact that people may enjoy the game who have a job, a family to take care of or engage in activities OUTSIDE Lineage 2, then you do not see the issue. And to deny this fact would only show you are lacking in the thinking department.
Lineage 2 requires you to make it your lifestyle to play. If you don't(I'm speaking for a person who plays legit), you won't be able achieve anything in game. This is a fact and its not BS. Its been the primary culprit why L2 has always had a small population and continuing to decrease. Because the game requires you to give up 90% of your life to remotely participate in game. Want me to make a simplistic outline for you so that you can comprehend what I'm saying?
You must:
1. Have a buff bot to level on your own.
2. You must then own more than one account to play the game.
3. At higher levels you must play countless hours to maybe earn .50%.
4. You must somehow earn money to support soul shots and gear. In most cases you are losing money than gaining UNLESS you are spending more time farming adena or other tasks to break even.
What you can not do:
1. Expect to make one account for yourself and level efficiently.
Lineage 2 is a pretty good game and attracts many people. So whats the problem? What they want to achieve isn't achievable under the normal conditions of their life. Like I mentioned many people do things unrelated to L2 that is essential to their life. If you can't understand that, then you are projecting the conditions of your own life on to others.
Botting and adena buying only exists because the above points. If a individual could be self sufficient(outside of the raiding and dungeons) then you wouldn't see a botting nor adena buying issue. Or at least it wouldn't be as excessive as it is now.
The funny thing is no matter if I kill a bot chinese or american they are always back up and at it within an hour. It seems like the people who run bot trains to 'have a life' end up just sitting at their computer either playing some other game and farming adena or sitting at their computer doing something else anyway ready to come assist their bot train haha. Whats the point? Why not just play the game, so stupid.
Sounds like projection to me. So I'm certain that one person who is botting represents or is the persona of every other person who bot. And "they" all really are at their computer doing other things because they don't actually want to play. Right.
Its not BS. Unless you can't reconcile the fact that people may enjoy the game who have a job, a family to take care of or engage in activities OUTSIDE Lineage 2, then you do not see the issue. And to deny this fact would only show you are lacking in the thinking department.
Lineage 2 requires you to make it your lifestyle to play. If you don't(I'm speaking for a person who plays legit), you won't be able achieve anything in game. This is a fact and its not BS. Its been the primary culprit why L2 has always had a small population and continuing to decrease. Because the game requires you to give up 90% of your life to remotely participate in game. Want me to make a simplistic outline for you so that you can comprehend what I'm saying?
You must:
1. Have a buff bot to level on your own.
2. You must then own more than one account to play the game.
3. At higher levels you must play countless hours to maybe earn .50%.
4. You must somehow earn money to support soul shots and gear. In most cases you are losing money than gaining UNLESS you are spending more time farming adena or other tasks to break even.
What you can not do:
1. Expect to make one account for yourself and level efficiently.
Lineage 2 is a pretty good game and attracts many people. So whats the problem? What they want to achieve isn't achievable under the normal conditions of their life. Like I mentioned many people do things unrelated to L2 that is essential to their life. If you can't understand that, then you are projecting the conditions of your own life on to others.
Botting and adena buying only exists because the above points. If a individual could be self sufficient(outside of the raiding and dungeons) then you wouldn't see a botting nor adena buying issue. Or at least it wouldn't be as excessive as it is now.
you are saying so much BS that I'm not sure where to start.
You can play the game without a bot program or braking the EULA in any way and still be able to gather all what you need by playing 2-3 hours per day. Sure it will take you 1-3 weeks to gather materials to craft one item or to play the marked to earn 1bil or so adena.
Saying that you can't play this game and still have a life, family and job is BS. In my clan there are several people that got family, jobs and a life outside L2. They play 2-4 hours a day max and still have lots of fun and are able to support them self with adena and the gear they need.
I have to agree that you need your own buffer if none in the clan is available or online the few hours you can play L2, but you don't need to bot it as you say in your 1st point. There is a difference between buff bot that is completely automated and a boxed buffer that is following a char with:
/target name
/target name (or /attack)
and pushing a macro for buffs every 20 minutes or stop grinding for 1 minute it takes to buff up without macros then just do the /target /attack thing again.
your 2nd point: no you don't need a 2nd account, it will be slow to level, but it isn't impossible.
3rd point: true, but you are still going up in levels by playing 2-4 hours a day while you have fun with your friends grinding.
4th point: you can grind for adena or you can grind for exp/sp depending what you want. Sometimes my clan makes a party and go somewhere where we can hunt without shots to gain some adena, sure the exp rate isn't the best nor the kill rate but we gain adena and/or seal stones depending where we go. you can also play the marked (have your char sit with a sell/buy shop while you are afk or sleeping) and gain tons of adena if done right.
Everything in L2 is achievable without botting, ebaying, cheating, exploiting and still have a normal life with your family and job outside L2.
you are saying so much BS that I'm not sure where to start.
You can play the game without a bot program or braking the EULA in any way and still be able to gather all what you need by playing 2-3 hours per day. Sure it will take you 1-3 weeks to gather materials to craft one item or to play the marked to earn 1bil or so adena.
Saying that you can't play this game and still have a life, family and job is BS. In my clan there are several people that got family, jobs and a life outside L2. They play 2-4 hours a day max and still have lots of fun and are able to support them self with adena and the gear they need.
I have to agree that you need your own buffer if none in the clan is available or online the few hours you can play L2, but you don't need to bot it as you say in your 1st point. There is a difference between buff bot that is completely automated and a boxed buffer that is following a char with:
/target name
/target name (or /attack)
and pushing a macro for buffs every 20 minutes or stop grinding for 1 minute it takes to buff up without macros then just do the /target /attack thing again.
your 2nd point: no you don't need a 2nd account, it will be slow to level, but it isn't impossible.
3rd point: true, but you are still going up in levels by playing 2-4 hours a day while you have fun with your friends grinding.
4th point: you can grind for adena or you can grind for exp/sp depending what you want. Sometimes my clan makes a party and go somewhere where we can hunt without shots to gain some adena, sure the exp rate isn't the best nor the kill rate but we gain adena and/or seal stones depending where we go. you can also play the marked (have your char sit with a sell/buy shop while you are afk or sleeping) and gain tons of adena if done right.
Everything in L2 is achievable without botting, ebaying, cheating, exploiting and still have a normal life with your family and job outside L2.
Thank you, you just created a sig worthy quote. I won't even comment on the mass amount of rhetoric in this post.
There is no doubt that in my circumstance I will never even come close to "catching up" to the end game.
I am a casual player. I have no 2nd account. I have never to my knowledge violated the Eula in any manner or used any type of haxx or 3rd party program.
I will be 3 more months complete the journey to 76.
I will never have the best gear. I will never compete in PvP. I will probably never be in a clan that even owns a castle.
Now some of you are asking "then why play?". The answer is, because I want to.
I log in and get to spend time with friends. We have fun. We do stuff (and sometimes fail) and we investigate and explore and laugh.
It's my $15.00 and I choose to spend it for the entertainment that L2 provides.
Personally, I love the challenge of the economy in this game. It is one of my goals to amass a legit billion adena (which I will probably never quite accomplish either :) )--I want to do this just to show MYSELF it can be done.
Can you be 85 in 2 months with 6 billion adena worth of gear? It doesn't matter to me. If you can--more power to you.
Those just aren't and never have been my goals.
I still get to raid, seige, explore, learn & earn (as I like to call economic activity) and spend time with friends. Incidentally, no one has died more quickly and more often and has fewer PvP points than I do--don't care about that either!
Sure if I got another account and disconnected my life and perhaps even joined a bigger clan--I could make what most consider tradional progress and move up faster. But those aren't what I want to do.
The question is, CAN you be uber at end game with 1 account, playing casually? Sure. And I'm sure many are.
Is it "easy"--no.
My very serious respect to those few who have gotten to 80+ legitimately--regardless of how long it has taken them. It is quite an accomplishment and one that MOST L2 players cannot claim imo.
Is it really about PvP or not? Even neutral clans could kill Tiat if they would want to (and since its an instanced boss they wouldnt get in the way of PvP clans).
The only logical solution would be to make the farming part also instanced. Then it could either be linked to your CC (so the 45 ppl that killed Tiat together got the same farm instance until their /instancezone gets reset) or its a 130min (like Tiat) farm instance for any 2-9 ppl group of 75+ players.
While I prefer the first solution, the second one wont screw with NCs dear bots, so everyone would be happy...
Well, making the farming part instanced would make it simple, I suppose. But, it's already boring enough. I don't mind other people coming to Destruction to farm the stones. If they can make it past us to keep a room that spawns a stone once every 15-20 minutes, more power to them--- but we will definitely try to stop them :D. It's the conflict about holding the area that is additionally fun. So the problem isn't the people coming; it's players hiding behind level 1 alts and flood the place like a horde of cockroaches instead of their main toons. Other servers have problems with the farming being done by them thru 3rd party programs.
This is why I say add the level restriction equal to the requirement for Tiat 75-85.
And there are "neutral" clans that have the levels/gear to defeat Tiat. We even had one try. They failed of course, but I bet that was more due to their tactics.
Lineage 2 requires you to make it your lifestyle to play. If you don't(I'm speaking for a person who plays legit), you won't be able achieve anything in game. This is a fact and its not BS. Its been the primary culprit why L2 has always had a small population and continuing to decrease. Because the game requires you to give up 90% of your life to remotely participate in game. Want me to make a simplistic outline for you so that you can comprehend what I'm saying?
So where did I say that a person who doesn't bot, buy adena and own multiple accounts shouldn't play the game? I said they won't be able to achieve anything. There is a difference. Reading is good, better yet not trying to push what you think I wrote on me is better. That way you can see what I'm saying instead of seeing what you "think" I'm saying. Make sense?
So where did I say that a person who doesn't bot, buy adena and own multiple accounts shouldn't play the game? I said they won't be able to achieve anything. There is a difference. Reading is good, better yet not trying to push what you think I wrote on me is better. That way you can see what I'm saying instead of seeing what you "think" I'm saying. Make sense?
that's completely dependant on your definition of 'achieving something'...
I'd like to think most ppl want to play a game to have fun.. some will have fun by being on top, others, by rolling dorfs and getting rich, ppl will find fun to have a toon with every single class of the game, or just by duoing with a friend to chill out... they will acomplish what they meant to in the first place, without this necesity of having uber gear or being at the top clan...
I've played for a few years.. and I have achieved the goals I've set myself so far... it looked like a really long way to 76 and 3rd class change, but I did it... it seemed I'd never get to poke baium and get my subclass quest done, yet I'm now leving my 2nd sub... noble was of course something for the no-lifers, and even so I'm noble now... what are my goals now? 78 and get a full Sg armor set/wpn for my 'main'.. i'm slowly getting there.. I've got the wpn, now I just need the SA and get it a higher element.. I got all my jewels and the first piece of an IC set... so yes, I'm achieving my goals...and of course i've done all this without having to rely on 3rd party programs or e-baying anything...
I still have fun playing this game with the ppl i've met here, and those that are my friends IRL... they day I stop having fun, I will just let my accounts go inactive and move on... I'm sure my wife will be happy with that xD...
here you go. you wrote it:
A buff bot is a character used only for buffing.
Bot comes from the word robot, which has different meaning. It can also mean a contraption that is constructed to perform only ONE task, and it doesn't have to be automatic (like on a program).
Buff Bot is an old MMORPG term that has been used a lot since EverQuest and DAoC days.
It is synonymous to BOXXED BUFFER.
Fail more, idiot.
You can always tells when Lineage II is someone's first MMORPG. They develop this warped perception of words, and forget how to comprehend simple statements and posts on a forum.
Bot comes from the word robot, which has different meaning. It can also mean a contraption that is constructed to perform only ONE task, and it doesn't have to be automatic (like on a program).
Buff Bot is an old MMORPG term that has been used a lot since EverQuest and DAoC days.
It is synonymous to BOXXED BUFFER.
Fail more, idiot.
You can always tells when Lineage II is someone's first MMORPG. They develop this warped perception of words, and forget how to comprehend simple statements and posts on a forum.
yes L2 is my 1st MMORPG where most of the players boxes a 2nd character, do you got any problems with that?
Oh and please tell me where I have insulted you oh great master of all knowledge.
and btw combine hes words "give up 90% of your life", "buff bot", "not achieve anything", "make it your life style". Doesn't that sound like the one posting that is saying that in order to have a life outside L2 you need to bot?
ke noe alo. ante og gamisou pou tha mou si pos ime en vlakas.
A buff bot is a character used only for buffing.
Has Piroteza stolen your account?
Buff Bot is an old MMORPG term that has been used a lot since EverQuest and DAoC days.
It is synonymous to BOXXED BUFFER.
togoogle: everquest bot
togoogle: daoc bot
yes L2 is my 1st MMORPG where most of the players boxes a 2nd character, do you got any problems with that?
Oh and please tell me where I have insulted you oh great master of all knowledge.
and btw combine hes words "give up 90% of your life", "buff bot", "not achieve anything", "make it your life style". Doesn't that sound like the one posting that is saying that in order to have a life outside L2 you need to bot?
ke noe alo. ante og gamisou pou tha mou si pos ime en vlakas.
Buffbot = Boxed buffer.
It has always had this meaning.
What makes you an idiot is how hard you try to make other look like botters, and everyone on this failure-ridden forum does it.
You say you go afk to take breaks from leveling at you spot, and, wow - you're going afk while you toon is killing mobs on a program!
You say buffbot; and, all of a sudden, you are talking about toons on automating programs.
Someone is level 85 and all of a sudden they are automatically an afk-leveled toon.
Just stop, it does nothing but make the game look worse, and it doesn't make you look smart at all. Witty? Yes - Nothing else.
Next time thing a little before responding to someone in that tone. You were totally wrong in both your definition of the word and the tone in which you replied.
This has nothing to do with my intelligence. I am just giving you the obvious MMORPG definition of the word.
I guess if someone says the other seige force got "plowed" you will report them for using sexual references in their post?
No, and I doubt Pirotesa would even respond in the way I did. I am not calling people who box botters, I am saying that the term buffbot does not imply "botting" in the sense that Rohirrim was insinuating. Can you fail any harder?
And have you played EverQuest or DAoC? Prolly not. I have, for many years. They call them buffbots. I know, cause I had one (in DAoC), and I had a Mage Bot in EverQuest for Mod Rods and pet weapons (for my Necro pets) + Call of the Hero (basically Summon Friend, but without the prompt). Buffbots are a huge thing in DAoC, cause they imbalance PvP and many players wanted the developers to make it illegal for players to have them. In EverQuest, we called these people Multi-Boxers, or just "Boxers".
Oh, and why don't you try Google:
To explain as briefly as I can why this was done, in the Normal servers it became very common practice for people to open up a second DAOC account or even a 3rd account in some cases and level up a buffing class for the sole purpose of having that buffing class as a bot.
They would log this toon in, buff their main character, and keep the buffing toon safely parked at the primary keep while they wandered the frontiers on their main toon fully buffed to the hilt so they would have an advantage over other people who did not have a second account and a "buffbot".
Enough people did not like this aspect of the normal servers that Mythic decided to include the new ruleset on the classic servers that limited people's ability to use "buffbots".
Now if someone wants to use a buffbot on a classic server, they have to be in a group with this buffbot (which causes them to have to share XP and Realm points with the buffbot), and they have to stay within a 5000 unit range of that buffbot to actually have the buff benefits, so most people who insist on continuing to use a buffbot are forced to drag that buffbot behind them which puts that buffbot in the line of fire just like any other toon.
Ref: http://daoc.catacombs.com/forum.cfm?ThreadKey=1059&DefMessage=1209524&forum=DAOCMidgardForum
Buffbot = boxed buffer that is only used to buff characters for PvE/PvP. As opposed to live buffers which are real players playing the toon. People called them bots because they were used for a simple function, and only that. They did nothing but buff and stand there, like a robot that does nothing but screw lids on peanut butter cans.
Any other crap responses?
I am just saying to stop telling people they are illegits or saying you have to bot just cause they use a pretty common MMORPG term that you don't understand due to being fixated with illegits in Lineage II - having not played any other "classic" MMORPG games.
For those who don't know:
Buffbot: A caracter in game who is not actually played. They usually will sit in a safe area of a zone providing buffs to another caracter who goes out to fight.
Clan Hall Boxed Buffers and Boxed buffers/dancers sitting by the GK doing Prophecy/dances/songs before people port out of town? Buffers in places like IT/FoG/MoS/Pagans/HB sitting in safe spot just buffing or healing OOP while the other person kills for full XP? Sounds pretty similar to me!
I would prefer that only players lvl 75+ may enter the dungeons just like the instances require it. Its stupid that only 75+ players can enter the instances but lvl 1 chars can farm endless time...
Botting and adena buying only exists because the above points. If a individual could be self sufficient(outside of the raiding and dungeons) then you wouldn't see a botting nor adena buying issue. Or at least it wouldn't be as excessive as it is now.
There are 3 reasons you see so many bots in L2
1) they are visible, there's no instanced content that is worth farming with a bot
2) the game is incredibly bot friendly in it's core mechanical design
3) nothing is done against them
However, it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game, every single game has bots and RMT, people will always buy it even if you can go make the top tier equipment and top level in a days worth of work
And because there's a market for the currency, there will be bots, and because there are bots, people will pay to use them to skip content
The only thing the game companies can do it be on top of it so it becomes both expensive and risky buying currency and botting. Some game companies do this well. NCSoft is in the other end of the scale, doing jack ***
Even in f2p games there are cheaters of every sort. Bug exploiters and hackers. We got all from A to Z in f2p games. Its not because of the dificulty of the game, its just that people want all at the same time and right now with no effort at all.
You're the one who assumed too much. If you don't like your mistake it's the same, ignoring those who point at it won't help you.
Back on topic without ad hominem : seed of destruction, which limits you want?
76+ Time-Locked group instance with increased drop rate of the items (like 40% drop rate from the MOBs).
That would have been much better, IMO.
And maybe a group raid Kamaloka-type boss at the end that has a 100% chance to drop a few (like 5 or so).
Well, the spawn rate is reeeeeallly slow for the crystals. I don't agree on the instanced idea. I don't agree with the raid boss idea at the end. Although, I wouldn't mind there being mobs in there to farm the seeds from instead of just hanging out while the stones spawn.
Spending hours waiting for that with no hope of xp at the moment is a trade off we make, but it isn't really consistent with the game, so it is a little confusing as to why it is set up that way.
Blauw, it's not that it takes a while... jesus, I've farmed orichalcum and red stones... everything associated with 80+ takes forever. But it's always associated with XP. The farming of the element stones does not... the place is empty except for the spouting of the stones.
Well, the spawn rate is reeeeeallly slow for the crystals. I don't agree on the instanced idea. I don't agree with the raid boss idea at the end. Although, I wouldn't mind there being mobs in there to farm the seeds from instead of just hanging out while the stones spawn.
Spending hours waiting for that with no hope of xp at the moment is a trade off we make, but it isn't really consistent with the game, so it is a little confusing as to why it is set up that way.
They should have made them drop off the hard MOBs in HB.
At least you're getting the crystals :P Aria sucks so much that we haven't opened that up yet.
Maybe you and your LP buddies can actually step up and kill tiat once in a while to speed it up...otherwise dont cry about it since you will be getting access from RDogs and Bregans work...
Maybe you and your LP buddies can actually step up and kill tiat once in a while to speed it up...otherwise dont cry about it since you will be getting access from RDogs and Bregans work...
Ah just like Rdogs and Bregans got access to a fully opened (lvl 1 - lvl 12) HB courtesy of my clan's work. =)
So, how to enter destruction now and when does it open?
It seems closed all the time on Teon, yet from what I know Tiat is beeing killed 4 times a day.
Its not only about killing tiat, its also to be able to defend the seed against the mobs when they do attack. See the seeds just like a large fortress. Its not only about to attack and keep it forever..you need to defend it or loose it again.
Its not only about killing tiat, its also to be able to defend the seed against the mobs when they do attack. See the seeds just like a large fortress. Its not only about to attack and keep it forever..you need to defend it or loose it again.
ok, simple question, when is it open for farming?
Um. You only find out that it is available for farming through a system message to the clan that defeated Tiat.
Yes, Falconek... that is what we are ******* and moaning about here... that level 1 alts are coming in and like an army of ants ninjaing the element stone spawns. Once Tiat is defeated a certain number of times, the seed becomes empty and element stones start to spawn and at the moment anyone who enters can farm them with an agathion.