That do you think about massive Amnesty in Lineage 2 world?
Look that we have now - all servers became or are about to become one-sided. This game is not suggested to be "PvE realms"... Balance of powers is too sensitive thing to survive mass bans...
I think there is nothing bad in such virtual amnesty for players (but not for their bugged items of cause) - good world practice :)
No, just ban the rest of the cheaters, too. Then the servers won't be one-sided anymore, because legit players will be able to compete with other legit players for the high lvl game content (instead of being rolled by the cheaters who have not met the ban hammer yet).
Its like in real life the Biggest Drug Dealers pay off the Governments Authorities to stay in business because they are ultimately controlled by the Oligarchs who also control the Governments and only the small independent drug dealers are targeted. Often turned in by the biggest drug dealers to get rid of the competition and BS the public into thinking something is being done to curtail the drug traffic.
That do you think about massive Amnesty in Lineage 2 world?
Look that we have now - all servers became or are about to become one-sided. This game is not suggested to be "PvE realms"... Balance of powers is too sensitive thing to survive mass bans...
I think there is nothing bad in such virtual amnesty for players (but not for their bugged items of cause) - good world practice :)
One of the strongest clan leader w/ a lot of clan skills and huge CWH got banned, to make matters worse aftet we got GF all clan rights has been reseted which made that clan dead. However TEON is still 2 side server. I would say NO TO AMESTY.
The biggest cheaters pay NC Soft too much money.
The biggest cheaters cost NCsoft too much money. NCsoft can easily close all their NA/Euro L2 servers without any harm to its bottom line (other than bad publicity on NA/Euro markets, but they already have it due to turning off RG's failed projects). Cheaters made this game unpopular and not really profitable.
No, and the below quote is how it should be now ****
No, just ban the rest of the cheaters, too. Then the servers won't be one-sided anymore, because legit players will be able to compete with other legit players for the high lvl game content (instead of being rolled by the cheaters who have not met the ban hammer yet).
This topic is about amnesty for already punished "prisoners". Please stop off topic about cheaters and bots. Can't you understand the difference? Like in RL one time amnesty is not a decision to stop hunt criminals at all... But unlike in RL - each punishment in this game is permanent - "for life".
This topic is about amnesty for already punished "prisoners". Please stop off topic about cheaters and bots. Can't you understand the difference?
No matter how you try, you can't make an issue out of this.
Game rules state cheaters may be perma-banned and sometimes these rules are enforced.
The biggest cheaters cost NCsoft too much money. NCsoft can easily close all their NA/Euro L2 servers without any harm to its bottom line (other than bad publicity on NA/Euro markets, but they already have it due to turning off RG's failed projects). Cheaters made this game unpopular and not really profitable.
+1
I think it will be the gift that keeps on costing NC money. I jnow lots that will never play another NC game...of NC doesn't care :)
This topic is about amnesty for already punished "prisoners". Please stop off topic about cheaters and bots. Can't you understand the difference? Like in RL one time amnesty is not a decision to stop hunt criminals at all... But unlike in RL - each punishment in this game is permanent - "for life".
The punishment should be permanent "for life". We all know that isn't the case.
XxDeathxX gets perma-banned. The guy who plays XxDeathxX is "John".
"John" uses a new game card and sets up a new account and all his haxx and 3rd party programs are up and running in an hour or two. In 2 months "John" is back to 78+ with 9 billion adena now playing the hero toon "YyLifeyY".
It doesn't matter if you like the bots or not the truth is if suddenly all the bots disappear today the only one which will suffer badly are the legit players.
The only one which refuse to admit this are those who want to bot but have not enough guts for it.
Removing the bots will not remove the 82+ lvl players which have Antaras+Bauim+Frint+QA+Zaken+S80 5x120 res set +12-14 OE weapon +600 earth. And if those players have not 1, but 20 Antaras they still can use only 1, so after some point of gear saturation more adena doesn't mean better gear, neither those players will be forced to sell their Antaras to the noobs for 1 adena.
On the other point removing the bots will cripple the market for a long time plus removing the large part of luxury items buyers this preventing the legit players from making large sums from market play AND this will cement forever the absolute and indisputed power of the todays top gear owners.
And of course those who claim removing the bots will drive the price of the mats lower have no idea what are thay talking about. Simply because the craft in the game is adjusted to the existance of the bots. Reducing the numbers of the bots already lifted the prices from 4 till 10 times for some mats. 18 months ago when I started to play I simply cannot move in Giran from materials sellers. Now the basic mats are rarity but everyone is selling enria and mold hardener AND manufactured mats at 40-50% more expensive then they cost if you craft them yourselfs.
it's a good idea as long as they ban them again when they resume botting.
so f.ex. they ban 1st time for 1 months, 2nd time for 2 months, 3rd time 2 months + all items deleted, etc, and sooner or later they ban forever.
this way game will be still be playable for legits and ppl who really want will have chance to prove they really want to keep playing.
this is better than right now when they randomly unban ppl due to mass unban petitions and the other side who does not want to sink to that level stays without top players. also there are mass ban petition tactic which not everyone is willing to sink to, etc.
however this requires some additional infrastructure like keeping trace of punishments for each offender etc.
If those that were banned still want to play, let them start another account. If they start cheating on that one (which they most certainly will), ban them again. Those types of players don't want to play this game, they just want to get to the pvp so they can have a Call of Duty'ish type of experience. Well this isn't a first person shooter and you should have to earn your dominance in this game.
it's a good idea as long as they ban them again when they resume botting.
so f.ex. they ban 1st time for 1 months, 2nd time for 2 months, 3rd time 2 months + all items deleted, etc, and sooner or later they ban forever.
Indeed. Sometimes system have to be reloaded for better functionality. Amnesty can't help for professional botters/farmers/bug/3rd soft users because they'll start doing their black job again just after unbanning and will be banned again soon. But it CAN help to other categories of banned people who deserve second chance. Some of such ppl can back to game then, and may be their friends who left the game because of dead const party/clan will do.
And of cause amnesty is not popular reform. Administration will have to do double work.
But may be I'm wrong and may be I just have to close my eyes and continue to play this game rolling down slowly to kind of WOW-pve swamp... Or just back to CS :)
These people weren't banned because they ran off to Canada to avoid a war they didn't agree with... They weren't making any type of political argument or point... They didn't break any unfair law as a protest...
They were stupid, they botted (among other things) and got caught; thus, amnesty doesn't apply.
Nobody unwittingly bots...if you bot you are taking the chance that you might get high level without work vs. getting banned. People will take that risk. A fair amount have gotten away with it so far and some have been banned, but if you bot you take the risk. Unbanning somebody for some 'amnesty' would just add another botter back into the population and give the already overworked gm's (if they exist at all) more people to check up on.
The worst part of it all is the sex change, main change, and name change services. What is to stop someone from botting like mad, getting a few accounts banned, and getting more to replace them until their toon is 85, changing sex, changing name, and no way for the community to tell that toonX is actually a fraud.
Nobody unwittingly bots...if you bot you are taking the chance that you might get high level without work vs. getting banned. People will take that risk. A fair amount have gotten away with it so far and some have been banned, but if you bot you take the risk. Unbanning somebody for some 'amnesty' would just add another botter back into the population and give the already overworked gm's (if they exist at all) more people to check up on.
agree 100%. the amnesty would be good only if there were GMs that would ban bots immediately and with 100% accuracy. then even those who take chances would not survive for too long to benefit from botting. (this is what I was talking about in my previous post)
in the real world it is not possible though so the idea is bad. making this would only encourage more people to bot - some legit players would surely try botting if they knew there are amnesties incoming.
Ban cheaters. Ban botters, ebayers, account buyers. Ban them all.
No amnesty. If there were an amnesty it would encourage cheating since cheaters would anticipate future amnesties if they were caught.
Encouraging cheaters Discourages honest players. There are a LOT of honest folks out there. The cheaters don't realize that because 'birds of a feather flock together.' The cheaters hang with other cheaters and don't see honest folks. Honest folks see both because they hang with honest folks and see the cheaters in Hero chat.
I'm not saying all cheaters are heros, but you get my point.
Lots of old accounts got banned with epics now worth a lot more than they used to be. It would be interesting how the market shakes out if they return.
It doesn't matter if you like the bots or not the truth is if suddenly all the bots disappear today the only one which will suffer badly are the legit players.
The only one which refuse to admit this are those who want to bot but have not enough guts for it.
Removing the bots will not remove the 82+ lvl players which have Antaras+Bauim+Frint+QA+Zaken+S80 5x120 res set +12-14 OE weapon +600 earth. And if those players have not 1, but 20 Antaras they still can use only 1, so after some point of gear saturation more adena doesn't mean better gear, neither those players will be forced to sell their Antaras to the noobs for 1 adena.
On the other point removing the bots will cripple the market for a long time plus removing the large part of luxury items buyers this preventing the legit players from making large sums from market play AND this will cement forever the absolute and indisputed power of the todays top gear owners.
And of course those who claim removing the bots will drive the price of the mats lower have no idea what are thay talking about. Simply because the craft in the game is adjusted to the existance of the bots. Reducing the numbers of the bots already lifted the prices from 4 till 10 times for some mats. 18 months ago when I started to play I simply cannot move in Giran from materials sellers. Now the basic mats are rarity but everyone is selling enria and mold hardener AND manufactured mats at 40-50% more expensive then they cost if you craft them yourselfs.
This line of thinking is full of fail - let me make it simple for you all:
1 - With no bots, that means no e-bay of adena
2 - no e-bay of adean then the "amount" of adena on the server will decrease
3 - less adena = lower prices
Those that say, "no bots = no mats", again not true - everyone seems to forgot in the old days were you had to work as a clan/ally to get the stuff you needed.
People forget that just because you can wear the next grade of armor/weapons does not mean that you HAVE TO HAVE THEM right then and now.
Removing the bots will not remove the 82+ lvl players which have Antaras+Bauim+Frint+QA+Zaken+S80 5x120 res set +12-14 OE weapon +600 earth.
Enyone who has ever violated the EULA (by botting, ebaying etc.) must be banned retroactively. All of them. Then the game will finally become fair for the remaining players (the legit part of the community).
Stop killing the game with cheats, GMs will stop killing your accounts.
You're big boys, you are responsible. You shoot your own feet and still you blame the gun.
It doesn't matter if you like the bots or not the truth is if suddenly all the bots disappear today the only one which will suffer badly are the legit players.
The only one which refuse to admit this are those who want to bot but have not enough guts for it.
Removing the bots will not remove the 82+ lvl players which have Antaras+Bauim+Frint+QA+Zaken+S80 5x120 res set +12-14 OE weapon +600 earth. And if those players have not 1, but 20 Antaras they still can use only 1, so after some point of gear saturation more adena doesn't mean better gear, neither those players will be forced to sell their Antaras to the noobs for 1 adena.
On the other point removing the bots will cripple the market for a long time plus removing the large part of luxury items buyers this preventing the legit players from making large sums from market play AND this will cement forever the absolute and indisputed power of the todays top gear owners.
And of course those who claim removing the bots will drive the price of the mats lower have no idea what are thay talking about. Simply because the craft in the game is adjusted to the existance of the bots. Reducing the numbers of the bots already lifted the prices from 4 till 10 times for some mats. 18 months ago when I started to play I simply cannot move in Giran from materials sellers. Now the basic mats are rarity but everyone is selling enria and mold hardener AND manufactured mats at 40-50% more expensive then they cost if you craft them yourselfs.
And the only people who argue for the existence of bots in the game are players who use bot programs and are trying to justify it to themselves and or the rest of the community. If the game is just too hard for you to play legit, then don't play the game. I hear that Barbie: PvP Adventures in Pony-land is coming out for the PC in the fall. If every bot dissappeard today, tomorrow every player on every server would make a brand new dwarf to spoil basic mats and take advantage of the chance to sell basic mats at high prices. Within a week, mat prices would cease to spike, and within a month it would be back to business as usual. Personally, I would grind all the way to 80 with NG equipment just for the chance to play the game as it's meant to be played.
The punishment should be permanent "for life". We all know that isn't the case.
XxDeathxX gets perma-banned. The guy who plays XxDeathxX is "John".
"John" uses a new game card and sets up a new account and all his haxx and 3rd party programs are up and running in an hour or two. In 2 months "John" is back to 78+ with 9 billion adena now playing the hero toon "YyLifeyY".
I sometimes wonder what people mean when they say they are "legit". Some of the topics I read, I get the impression that certain people consider themselves "legit", since everyone elses bots/ebays and uses third party programs, therefore it is ok they do as well and are "legit" by Lineage II standards.
I agree Calladan, it's gotten to where the use of third-party programs has become the norm rather than the exception. My definition of legit only requires that a person not use a third-party program to advance yourself in the game in any way, and not buying adena from online stores.
technically ur cheating anyways if u buy anything from bots private shops =p
If these shops are set up personally for you (with the pricess well below the market), then yes. IRL analog is called "money laundering".
If every bot dissappeard today, tomorrow every player on every server would make a brand new dwarf to spoil basic mats and take advantage of the chance to sell basic mats at high prices. Within a week, mat prices would cease to spike, and within a month it would be back to business as usual. Personally, I would grind all the way to 80 with NG equipment just for the chance to play the game as it's meant to be played.
Demoticus - you just demonstrated your complete ignorance for both spoiling mats and crafting.
As I wrote in simple english the game craft is measured towards the bots, not the spoilers. A single DB craft needs about 50,000 different mats plus thousands quest items to get the recipe. And it can fail so double or tripple this quantity. AND a spoiler simply cannot spoil all this because many mats are spoiled only in certain lvl range. AND a spoiler being not a DD needs 1-2 minutes to kill a mob at best. Which means 1 1/2 month if you spoil 24/7 without the recipes and the AA needed to buy gems...
So better try to learn something before writing non-sense.
As I wrote in simple english the game craft is measured towards the bots, not the spoilers. A single DB craft needs about 50,000 different mats plus thousands quest items to get the recipe. And it can fail so double or tripple this quantity. AND a spoiler simply cannot spoil all this because many mats are spoiled only in certain lvl range. AND a spoiler being not a DD needs 1-2 minutes to kill a mob at best. Which means 1 1/2 month if you spoil 24/7 without the recipes and the AA needed to buy gems...
Haven't we already discussed the topic and found you to be wrong?
The game is designed for Korean servers. Which don't have as many mat-farming bots as we do.
A single DB craft needs about 50,000 different mats plus thousands quest items to get the recipe. And it can fail so double or tripple this quantity. AND a spoiler simply cannot spoil all this because many mats are spoiled only in certain lvl range.
That's why they put manor in the game, so you can get tons of mats with relatively little effort.
For example, you can get all the animal bones required for the DB with 6-7k chilly cobols.
The only real effect of removing the bots will be that players will be forced to pvp less, because, you know, they will need to also play the game.
The other 'real effect' of some mythical day when bots disappear (and could somehow be prevented from reappearing) would be that 2/3 of the player population who only play if the game is on 'easy mode' would quit.
Someone wrote an excellent point noting that many players just want to rush to PvP as if this is a Call of Duty first person shooter--and I agree that there are a LOT of players who seem to feel that way.
I think that adena sales (ebaying) is a side effect of the true purpose of botting these days. It's my impressions that bots accomplish the avoidance of time/effort for many players--so they don't have to spend time in the economy (or crafting) and for some, in grinding. As they try to shortcut with their bot accounts, they INCIDENTALLY amass mats and gold that they sell outside of the game.
For some # of players, they are absolutely unwilling (and I believe unable) to play this game as it was designed. Their arguments constantly come down to "the grind is TOO hard (read: slow)" and "sale prices are TOO high for gear". These are their stated self-justifications. These players also often try to throw fear out in defense of bots claiming that no gear will ever be crafted again and that a stem will rise in price to 1 million adena if bots are removed.....
But what botting really provides is an avoidance of time.
If somehow there was no way to program bots and run them in the game--huge #'s of the weak and soft would simply quit.
Would the game survive? I don't know. It would be a hell of a lot smaller, I can tell you that!
Would items rise or fall in value and price? Yes--items would rise and fall....and be scarce at times.
And at some point those left would adjust--or they would quit.
No one can know that part of "what might happen".
And here's the thing....I would rather play on a server merged from 5 other servers, with 800 other players who cannot bot than the way it is now. Because no matter what rules they enforce or how they find cheaters or what happens to the cheaters--I'd be one of the 800.
And the only people who argue for the existence of bots in the game are players who use bot programs and are trying to justify it to themselves and or the rest of the community. If the game is just too hard for you to play legit, then don't play the game. I hear that Barbie: PvP Adventures in Pony-land is coming out for the PC in the fall. If every bot dissappeard today, tomorrow every player on every server would make a brand new dwarf to spoil basic mats and take advantage of the chance to sell basic mats at high prices. Within a week, mat prices would cease to spike, and within a month it would be back to business as usual. Personally, I would grind all the way to 80 with NG equipment just for the chance to play the game as it's meant to be played.
Lol.
The other 'real effect' of some mythical day when bots disappear (and could somehow be prevented from reappearing) would be that 2/3 of the player population who only play if the game is on 'easy mode' would quit.
Someone wrote an excellent point noting that many players just want to rush to PvP as if this is a Call of Duty first person shooter--and I agree that there are a LOT of players who seem to feel that way.
I think that adena sales (ebaying) is a side effect of the true purpose of botting these days. It's my impressions that bots accomplish the avoidance of time/effort for many players--so they don't have to spend time in the economy (or crafting) and for some, in grinding. As they try to shortcut with their bot accounts, they INCIDENTALLY amass mats and gold that they sell outside of the game.
For some # of players, they are absolutely unwilling (and I believe unable) to play this game as it was designed. Their arguments constantly come down to "the grind is TOO hard (read: slow)" and "sale prices are TOO high for gear". These are their stated self-justifications. These players also often try to throw fear out in defense of bots claiming that no gear will ever be crafted again and that a stem will rise in price to 1 million adena if bots are removed.....
But what botting really provides is an avoidance of time.
If somehow there was no way to program bots and run them in the game--huge #'s of the weak and soft would simply quit.
Would the game survive? I don't know. It would be a hell of a lot smaller, I can tell you that!
Would items rise or fall in value and price? Yes--items would rise and fall....and be scarce at times.
And at some point those left would adjust--or they would quit.
No one can know that part of "what might happen".
And here's the thing....I would rather play on a server merged from 5 other servers, with 800 other players who cannot bot than the way it is now. Because no matter what rules they enforce or how they find cheaters or what happens to the cheaters--I'd be one of the 800.
The crafting system sucks, and the pve gameplay also sucks.
Why do people act like it's the players fault that NCSoft developed this game for farmers and botters, and not for us?
Are people really that blind, or such rabid NCSoft fanbois that they cannot actually get it together and call a Spade a Spade?
Oh, yea. They like it, cause it is convenient for them. At the same time, they ***** and moan about the very characters that make it possible for them to progress in this game at a reasonable pace. Ubers will always outlevel you, outgear you, and outhero you, because they are just better than you at playing the game - they also have more time to dedicate to playing the game. Look at hero shout, those players are always online. You think they spent all their time online just twiddling their thumbs? Not all heroes are botted, stop generalizing (not you, specifically).
No, I don't bot, but I will not downplay the importance of bots, and how much most people actually depend on them, and don't even realize it.
Go ahead and ban all the bots, this game will shut down within 6 months without their subscriptions and the subscriptions of the people that will quit when it happens, because the in-game economy will experience inflation on a level that no one has ever seen before.
Botting provides an avoidance of CTS. They bot, while I take month breaks after gaining a level to make sure my wrists don't fall off, instead. Two ways to achieve the same purpose. I would hardly call leveling in this game difficult or fun. Time consuming, boring, and monotanous are the only adjectives that apply.
Botters don't have an adena grind. They can stack 9 man groups with DDs, buffers, dancers, healers that allow them to level 24/7 without shots and gain millions upon millions of adena a day in adena drops, mats, and common/full drops, among other things. Common armors and Luxury Shop B Grade armors made it even easier for them. They don't need top gear in Bot Trains...
The game will only survive if legit players have enough buffbot accounts to give NCSoft the cash to keep it afloat. With the attitude towards buffbots on this forum, however, I don't think that will be the case :P
I'm tired reading these forums and seeing people make excuses for every horrible design decision made in this game's development, from talking about "adena grind" to "rock paper sissors" PvP balance, to blatant lying about things to prove a point, to circular arguments about trivial things taht are clearly apparent. You guys are not helping this game.
800 Players are not a lot.
*sighs* I've pretty much given up on this game, and it's community.
So Tren, if we call those who refuse to acknowledge that all botting is NCSoft's fault, "rabid fanbois"....what do we call players who refuse to acknowledge that some players choose to cheat and others do not? That players who cheat are responsible for their own actions?
I've acknowledged a hundred times in these threads that not all ubers have cheated. Although I've never personally met one, I'm sure there is a hero somewhere who was legit (that is supposed to be humorous, btw).
What I've never seen is all the rabid NCSoft-haters ever acknowledge that "most" ubers cheat shamelessly--because those players WANT to.
By avoiding personal responsibility and trotting out moral relativism drivel, you (and others) are not helping this game.
One player works and the other cheats and it's just "two ways to achieve the same purpose"--c'mon. Arguments like that make it impossible to even have a reasonable discussion or disagreement.
You reduce all valid reasons for disagreement to nothing.
"One guy works in a factory for 30 years and buys a boat--another guy kills a family of 4 and steals their boat....just "two ways to achieve the same purpose"....
Yeah, if you avoid that nasty little detail about MURDER and stealing.
Posters like you want to complain about boat prices and argue that if they were cheaper no one would kill others to get one.
We all get that the game design is a disconnect. We all know very well its flaws. We all have played long enough to be able to puzzle through possible outcomes if 2/3 of the player population disappeared tomorrow.
You argue that those of us raising varied arguments refuse to acknowledge that "NCSoft just sucks" (which is what you always write).
Okay.
I argue that those of you who fail to admit that cheaters choose to do so actually encourage the improper behavior and that your forgiveness and refusal to condemn PLAYERS is what is actually hurting the game.
It is a serious disservice to suggest that getting to end game in a legit manner is equivalent to getting there by cheating...in order to make that argument you have to overlook the little fact that the cheating is wrong--always.
One final comment (and then I'm really more than done with this). You'll want to be careful arguing that it is "impossible to get to end-game legit"....as there are dozens of posters on these forums who maintain they have.
So here's a non-circular point for you--if some (in fact many who claim to have done so) can indeed get to end-game without botting, then you cannot say that anyone HAS to bot to get to end-game.
I've acknowledged a hundred times in these threads that not all ubers have cheated. Although I've never personally met one, I'm sure there is a hero somewhere who was legit (that is supposed to be humorous, btw).
Bad humor because there've been several on Teon recently. Yep, hero + Teon + legit, you heard well.
Drakkos I'm not reading a post filled with bad analogies, and I'm pretty sure that I've been one of the people on this forum telling the fanbois that it is possible to achieve high levels legit.
People have been dinging 80 since Interlude, why can't they be 85 now?
Duh?
It has nothing to do with people NOT agreeing with me.
It's just dumb to argue over cheaters when this game is build on a foundation that actually promotes cheating, along with horrible customer service, and GM teams.
Read less defensively, please.
Here's an analogy for you:
It's wrong from criminals to escape from prison, but is it wrong for the prison to leave the gates open for them and expect them not to make a run for it?
I say no. What say you?
And seriously, would it suprise you if prisoners started running out the gates if that was to happen?
That is the way I feel with this game and botting/cheaters, and that is why it does not bother me much.
Yes, it's wrong, but it's NCSoft's fault. They left the door open and MANY people are opportunists. It is quite understandable that this game is the most botted and cheated up that I've ever played. It's pretty normal to me, cause I'm not blinded by bias and I can see why it is that way. No, it's not the player's fault. It's NCSoft's fault.
I've been back about almost 2 months now and from lvl 1 to 62 I've probably met 2 or 3 real players while xping. Some of the people I've shared the same xp place with not too long ago are now 80 or higher.
There's a lot of level 80 "transfers" too. They were just really botted to 80, but pretending to have transfered. Lawl at transfer guy and his full party named plvl1, powerlvl2, dlakdls22 or similar names.
I agree with your points. And I also agree that the developers/owners of this game are responsible for the state of it.
I've never disagreed on those concepts from your posts.
To answer your question directly, if the 'gates are left open' everyone would expect the prisoners to make a run for it--and blame the prison administrators for the situation.
We'd still round up the prisoners and put them away again. We would never say "since they have escaped and we can all agree to blame the prison officials--let's call the prisoners who made a run for it "valiant, honorable, and good".
I guess end of the day I'd appreciate both comments. NCSoft has allowed (encouraged) and turned a blind eye to cheating. Yup. And their customer support and GM's have sucked. Their communication and attention to their game is pretty poor as well.
and....players cheat.
I suppose it's academic to argue if players cheat because it's allowed and encouraged or because they are inept and incapable and weak. The latter are judgments on my part but I believe they are accurate as well.
I've been back about almost 2 months now and from lvl 1 to 62 I've probably met 2 or 3 real players while xping. Some of the people I've shared the same xp place with not too long ago are now 80 or higher.
There's a lot of level 80 "transfers" too. They were just really botted to 80, but pretending to have transfered. Lawl at transfer guy and his full party named plvl1, powerlvl2, dlakdls22 or similar names.
There have been loads of people dinging 80 since Interlude, and it's not hard to "powerlevel" tons to 8x in FoTM groups. Top Clans have been, and still are, doing it all the time.
There is a huge amount of botted characters, but I do not agree with the generalization that 8x = bot.
no, just ban the rest of the cheaters, too. Then the servers won't be one-sided anymore, because legit players will be able to compete with other legit players for the high lvl game content (instead of being rolled by the cheaters who have not met the ban hammer yet).
That's why they put manor in the game, so you can get tons of mats with relatively little effort.
For example, you can get all the animal bones required for the DB with 6-7k chilly cobols.
The only real effect of removing the bots will be that players will be forced to pvp less, because, you know, they will need to also play the game.
Did you ever get some mats from the manor? Even 100 iron? Good luck getting it because a single S weapon craft needs more then 12,000 iron. And if there are no bots imagine how 3000 players will compete to get this iron fro the manor.
As for the Korean servers and the bots - there is no way to know for sure but from what I read in Korea the botting is put quite on professional base. Which companies hiring ppl to control zillions of bots etc.
As I told I cannot be sure if this is true - but I don't see a reason why there will be no bots in Korea but only in Europe and USA.
As for this am I wrong or not - what you decide about the craft is not relevant simply because fro 1 week I craft more stuff then you crafted for all the time you played the game. How do I know this? It is simple. A real crafter will not say what you said.
As for this am I wrong or not - what you decide about the craft is not relevant simply because fro 1 week I craft more stuff then you crafted for all the time you played the game. How do I know this? It is simple. A real crafter will not say what you said.
Your argument boils down to "bots make possible for me to attempt so many S-grade crafts per week, so bots are necessary for the game".
Did you ever get some mats from the manor? Even 100 iron? Good luck getting it because a single S weapon craft needs more then 12,000 iron. And if there are no bots imagine how 3000 players will compete to get this iron fro the manor.
getting mats from the manor is impossible precisely because of all the bots that log in at 8pm right next to the manor trader and buy all the mats the moment they're availble... I've been stuck with 'fruits' many times because of this, so yea.. i'd be happy if i had to compete with other players for the mats instead of competing with bots that take less than a sec to go thru the whole menus/selections/etc
It doesn't matter if you like the bots or not the truth is if suddenly all the bots disappear today the only one which will suffer badly are the legit players.
The only one which refuse to admit this are those who want to bot but have not enough guts for it.
Removing the bots will not remove the 82+ lvl players which have Antaras+Bauim+Frint+QA+Zaken+S80 5x120 res set +12-14 OE weapon +600 earth. And if those players have not 1, but 20 Antaras they still can use only 1, so after some point of gear saturation more adena doesn't mean better gear, neither those players will be forced to sell their Antaras to the noobs for 1 adena.
On the other point removing the bots will cripple the market for a long time plus removing the large part of luxury items buyers this preventing the legit players from making large sums from market play AND this will cement forever the absolute and indisputed power of the todays top gear owners.
And of course those who claim removing the bots will drive the price of the mats lower have no idea what are thay talking about. Simply because the craft in the game is adjusted to the existance of the bots. Reducing the numbers of the bots already lifted the prices from 4 till 10 times for some mats. 18 months ago when I started to play I simply cannot move in Giran from materials sellers. Now the basic mats are rarity but everyone is selling enria and mold hardener AND manufactured mats at 40-50% more expensive then they cost if you craft them yourselfs.
eh? Bartz has a few high lvl that can do the Jewel bosses np, so I'm sure your server does too. Furthermore, the reason people "need" Bossjewels and ++++ weapons with +++++++ elementals on them is because their (botted) enemies have them too.
getting mats from the manor is impossible precisely because of all the bots that log in at 8pm right next to the manor trader and buy all the mats the moment they're availble... I've been stuck with 'fruits' many times because of this, so yea.. i'd be happy if i had to compete with other players for the mats instead of competing with bots that take less than a sec to go thru the whole menus/selections/etc
Not quite so. I know lot of human players which compete for the manor mats. BUT - the daily quota of the manor mats is very small.
If the bots disappear the game to be playble it is needed to:
1. Reduce the needed materials for the craft about 10 times
OR
2. Increase the daily quota of the manor mats at least 20 times
OR
3. Increase the drop ratio of the mats
OR
4. Add some other VERY SIGNIFICANT sourse of mats
Did you ever get some mats from the manor? Even 100 iron? Good luck getting it because a single S weapon craft needs more then 12,000 iron.
Frozen Lab... do I need to say that again?
As I told I cannot be sure if this is true - but I don't see a reason why there will be no bots in Korea but only in Europe and USA.
In Korea, every account is linked to a Korean SSN. If you are banned for cheating, you are banned forever, unless you steal someone else's SSN, which is a criminal offense in Korea.
In Korea, every account is linked to a Korean SSN. If you are banned for cheating, you are banned forever, unless you steal someone else's SSN, which is a criminal offense in Korea.
I think it was on this forum someone wrote about a chinese women which worked as a bot-controller for a company together with 50 other chinese. And I bet it there are much more like her.
And of course the thought 3000 players will compete for the 2 hundred mobs in frozen for basic mats is hilarious.
Edit: As for the SSN - everyone who knows what Google means can generate acceptable SSN and all like such for every country in the world.
It doesn't matter if you like the bots or not the truth is if suddenly all the bots disappear today the only one which will suffer badly are the legit players.
The only one which refuse to admit this are those who want to bot but have not enough guts for it.
Removing the bots will not remove the 82+ lvl players which have Antaras+Bauim+Frint+QA+Zaken+S80 5x120 res set +12-14 OE weapon +600 earth. And if those players have not 1, but 20 Antaras they still can use only 1, so after some point of gear saturation more adena doesn't mean better gear, neither those players will be forced to sell their Antaras to the noobs for 1 adena.
On the other point removing the bots will cripple the market for a long time plus removing the large part of luxury items buyers this preventing the legit players from making large sums from market play AND this will cement forever the absolute and indisputed power of the todays top gear owners.
And of course those who claim removing the bots will drive the price of the mats lower have no idea what are thay talking about. Simply because the craft in the game is adjusted to the existance of the bots. Reducing the numbers of the bots already lifted the prices from 4 till 10 times for some mats. 18 months ago when I started to play I simply cannot move in Giran from materials sellers. Now the basic mats are rarity but everyone is selling enria and mold hardener AND manufactured mats at 40-50% more expensive then they cost if you craft them yourselfs.
The mats mechanic in this game are called seeding, the problem is that u cant compete with the bots, and the real bot farmers not players using bot programs control that market, and when they ban bots they inflact the price of mats to make ppl think that way, same appen with AA, theres a lot of other ways to get rare materials, but ppl only know the usuall port giran buy and craft, i bet with you or anyone if theres no bots farming the manor making you unable to compete on that by any chance i craft 3 times faster anything then now, your problem and many other problem is you dont know where the economy on L2 is based (The main item to set it), every game that have some currency in game use something as a reference for the economy, this is set mostly on MMO's where there is a large number of player and options to do, other games just have a currency for npc's shops and there is no market places at all, many ppl think about the idea of no bots = higher prices, and thats totally wrong, specially if the game as those rules from the beginning, off course you mind probly altered so mutch at this point you think im crazy, thas the usually beavior of the ones who alreadygot the "blue pill"
Take the "red pill" imagine a server without bots, how mutch can player B sell a thing to player A, if player B play two times longer than player A and probably best money player A have is 1mil while player B have in best option 2mil?
More simple try fid the base thing used to set the currency of game and calculate the rest of the things prices, or you want to tell me a stack of 1k cbp for ex. would cost 18x more, having no players able to afford that price?
Believing on that is fall into the trap game the farmers play, and everytime there is more ban activity they improve prices and retain mats to make you believe more on that. I have been playing my way for years and i rarelly bought anything for crafts, or ancient adena, and i keep crafting S stuff, make a list of your goals for armor/weapon and check what in game can provide you the things you need and play for that, you will still leveling your toon as normal and getting the mats you will need, for some yeah you will have to get a spoiler to help you but other than that you dont need to buy anything, in fact theres the thing i like on Franz where the prices are insane higher, its so high i dont mind to spend 1b in one day cause if im not lazzy i can get it back in 3 or 4 days of shop mode!
Off course i buy many things my gear for ex. Draconic Set was bought before the economy boom on this server i bought it for 550kk all unsealed set, while now you pay that just for the main piece, after 6 months i crafted a main piece i ended up selling that sealed for 1b, a sealed draconic set was something like 2b, now prices are dropping again and ppl still make their calculations based on market sellers, when 80% of the mats you will need you can get them in a week or less, you just need to optimize your leveling spot for the drops you need, and you will end up crafting for 1/20 the market price, that means you can fail 19 times in a row to make last craft going = market price, if you in a clan or have a group of friends looking for that try to do it by yourself, if you fail the 1st or even the 2nd craft's you will be ****** out but still think in what you really pay for it, theres ppl who just try lucky crafts, they try buy everything on seller shops and if the craft succeed they get like 1/3 of profit, but usually those players have already a good economic support for that, i wanted a different S weapon and the only thing i bought for the 7 or 8 crafts i did was only the S crystals, even those i took long to get them at the price i wanted/feel was fair due to the economy of my server and not the price the shops were selling, in last option i would buy the Gems too, but usually i farm my own AA so even that i get by myself, but the way i found it more simple i took the recipes i made a spreadsheet list of the things i would need and checked where i would get that at my current level, specially higher level places usually drop a lot more mat itens at once.
It doesn't matter if you like the bots or not the truth is if suddenly all the bots disappear today the only one which will suffer badly are the legit players.
The only one which refuse to admit this are those who want to bot but have not enough guts for it.
Removing the bots will not remove the 82+ lvl players which have Antaras+Bauim+Frint+QA+Zaken+S80 5x120 res set +12-14 OE weapon +600 earth. And if those players have not 1, but 20 Antaras they still can use only 1, so after some point of gear saturation more adena doesn't mean better gear, neither those players will be forced to sell their Antaras to the noobs for 1 adena.
On the other point removing the bots will cripple the market for a long time plus removing the large part of luxury items buyers this preventing the legit players from making large sums from market play AND this will cement forever the absolute and indisputed power of the todays top gear owners.
Solution is to remove not only those, who bot *now at certain time* but also all those who reached their 82+ and 5/5 jewels in an unlegit way. Those few, who will remain - well they can have their power.
Not quite so. I know lot of human players which compete for the manor mats.
at least you can compete.. throw some bots in the mix and you'll notice that no matter what all the human players do, they end up with a lot of fruits in their inventories.
In Korea, every account is linked to a Korean SSN. If you are banned for cheating, you are banned forever, unless you steal someone else's SSN, which is a criminal offense in Korea.
VERY untrue, RL friend has had 4 accounts banned over 3 years, still playing, still on server 8
Solution is to remove not only those, who bot *now at certain time* but also all those who reached their 82+ and 5/5 jewels in an unlegit way. Those few, who will remain - well they can have their power.
You must be some relative to Stalin, right? Kill everyone who has a cow?
Or maybe you know some way how to distinguish those which are lvl 82+, have BJ and are legit from those which are lvl 82+ and are not legit? And the presumption is those who are under lvl 82+ are all legit?
You must be some relative to Stalin, right? Kill everyone who has a cow?
Or maybe you know some way how to distinguish those which are lvl 82+, have BJ and are legit from those which are lvl 82+ and are not legit? And the presumption is those who are under lvl 82+ are all legit?
This is called server logs. If they don't keep them - another stone in NC garden.
Edit: And I never said, that I think all 82+ are unlegit. So don't try those cheap discussion tricks on me, cause I'm not alike Stalin, but you definitely could be his minister of propaganda.