A new server with tighter watches by GM's and a new punishment policy would clear up all the bot threads and issues on this game. It is unrealistic to try to fix the issues on the current servers because so many have benefitted from exploits and other actions it woud be impossible to have a truely unbiased gameplay experience. Since the other servers are lost causes at this point, why not do what people do when their neighborhood has become a mecca for crime and unsavory people....
THEY MOVE TO A BETTER NEIGHBORHOOD!!!
If a new server was implemented that included more watchful eyes, GM's that don't use automated responses, and new punishment policies, it would give those that want to experience L2 the way it was meant to be played a workable alternative. Also, if done correctly, it will get rid of all the bot posts that are made on this forum and finally put to rest exactly what it is this community wants. If it doesn't work out, then no one has the right to complain anymore.
In the realm of different punishments for bad behavior, here's a few suggestions:
First offense: 24 hour perma red
Second offense: 72 hour week perma red
Third offense: 1 week perma red
Fourth offense: Loss of 10 levels, skills reset to 0, and sp reset to 0
Fifth offense: Reset to level 1, no money, no gear, no SP
GM's would have to have alot of latitude on bannings and they should go to an area where reports are being made. If the behavior is questionable but not fully confirmed, it's considered a first offense and the character is made red. It will be the players responsibility to keep all forms of suspicious behavior away from them.
Also, since this will be a new server, let's allow vitality herbs like the creampuff events to drop every friday and saturday for 6 months.
Well the biggest change that would have to take place would be an increased presence of GM's on the one server. The other servers would be business as usual. You would have to have a much more interactive experience with the GM's for this to be more effective. If that much doesn't change, then yes, you would have the exact same scenarios that you had on luna and teon.
You can't fix the other servers. No matter what you did, you can't get rid of the ones who have prospered through cheating at this point.
Being a perma-red isn't a get out of jail free card. It's an all out death sentence and it completely halts your ability to level, farm adena, or mats afk.
And the reason GM's should participate more on the one new server is because it doesn't happen on any of the others. It's easier to task a group to monitor one server than it is to monitor 5 or 6 others. If people migrate from the other servers to this one because it's more level, then there's no need to have some of the other servers. This would result in shutting down the other servers and keeping the game more alive in a purer format.
You can't fix the other servers. No matter what you did, you can't get rid of the ones who have prospered through cheating at this point.
Being a perma-red isn't a get out of jail free card. It's an all out death sentence and it completely halts your ability to level, farm adena, or mats afk.
And the reason it should happen on one server is because it doesn't happen on any of the others. It's easier to task a group to monitor one server than it is to monitor 5 or 6 others. If people migrate from the other servers to this one because it's more level, then there's no need to have some of the other servers. This would result in shutting down the other servers and keeping the game more alive in a purer format.
Being red does not mean "all out death sentence and it completely halts your ability to level, farm adena, or mats " - I have been near perma red a lot of times and was able to work it off.
Also to get around it, you just don't log that toon in for the time that you are "perma red"
As for moving to this clean server - LOL ... so you can bot you way to 85/80/80/80 then move over here.. yea that is fair..
I give you props for thinking of a solution, but this server would be nothing more than a private server.
Being red does not mean "all out death sentence and it completely halts your ability to level, farm adena, or mats " - I have been near perma red a lot of times and was able to work it off.
Also to get around it, you just don't log that toon in for the time that you are "perma red"
As for moving to this clean server - LOL ... so you can bot you way to 85/80/80/80 then move over here.. yea that is fair..
I give you props for thinking of a solution, but this server would be nothing more than a private server.
A person that is afk for any reason and is permanently red is not a deterrent to anyone that wants to level in an area. Even on the current servers if I petitioned a gm and he showed up, confirmed there was a suspicious behavior and then turned the offending parties permanently red, I could then deal with the issue no matter how many times they respawned without any detriment to myself.
I didn't mention it in the first post, but there would be no transfers to this server at all. You play here, you start from level 1.
As long as the new server would be NA id try it out ^^
I would actually want to try it with a NA server first, then if it's successful create a EUR server.
If it worked out, you could merget all NA servers into 2 servers plus the heavily GM'd server and then Have Teon and Luna plus a heavily GM'd Euro Server.
A person that is afk for any reason and is permanently red is not a deterrent to anyone that wants to level in an area. Even on the current servers if I petitioned a gm and he showed up, confirmed there was a suspicious behavior and then turned the offending parties permanently red, I could then deal with the issue no matter how many times they respawned without any detriment to myself.
I didn't mention it in the first post, but there would be no transfers to this server at all. You play here, you start from level 1.
Only if the afk'er goes perma red with over 5 PK's. Back in the old days killing boaters for there equipment was the only real way we had to fight them.
By looking at out newvest servers Franz and Luna it's posible to assume that new server would be most likely the same. Furthermore server would provably end up having only one power side which is very strong. Its strenght would be based on fact that they were smarter and faster on boting 24/7. You could call this very pesimistic but I chooses facts and past events experience to forecast the posible scenarios.
WamWam--love ya man, and I know what you're trying to say, but I'm a bit skeptical!
I know, I know--you're saying that THIS TIME there could be more GM''s with better efforts on their part....sure.
In my time here there have been a number of "new" servers--they are, if anything, worse than the 'old' servers.
A new server will just hasten the merging of other servers as they lighten further in population--bringing about those mergers faster than otherwise necessary.
I just don't see NCSoft committing GM time to any L2 server. This game is seriously screwed up and will stay that way.
I don't see a new server as any part of an answer. 1) it would presume some # of "honest" players--which I believe this game does not have, 2) it would presume that sufficient #'s would start over (since you said no transfers) and start the whole thing to 80+ & subclasses over again without bots (which VERY few accomplished without bots the first time!), and 3) it would presume that NCSoft could get the 'tighter control' and 'better GM presence' right--there is no evidence to suggest that.
You can't fix the other servers. No matter what you did, you can't get rid of the ones who have prospered through cheating at this point.
Yes, you can.
Would be easier to add a server where boting was allowed...
And if you where caught boting on any other server you would be transferred to this one without the possibility to transfer back :)
Would be easier to add a server where boting was allowed...
And if you where caught boting on any other server you would be transferred to this one without the possibility to transfer back :)
i've already been suggesting (for like 3 months, now) a server merge to two NA servers...one where everyone goes to after the merge and another entirely new server.
the populated server has strict 24/7 gm control (none of that automated crap.) the new server is high-rate...like 20x.
you get caught botting or ebaying on the populated server, you and all your toons get xferred (without warehouse) to the high rate server and there's no getting back, even by making a new toon.
effect:
real server. pvp server. everyone is happy except the GM's who actually have to do work.
Would be easier to add a server where boting was allowed...
And if you where caught boting on any other server you would be transferred to this one without the possibility to transfer back :)
Seriously, that's the best suggestion.
And I would add, just like in the PTS, start them all at level 76 (or 81 or 85, who cares) and give them items from the NPCs and free adena per day or week to pvp all they want till the end of L2.
the real question is, would this game still be alive if there werent bots? Would the pricers of items be higher? In the current state of the game. would people cry more?
If we took out all the bots tommorow wouldnt it hurt the economy even though it might steal your experience grind spots. I dont know, Maybee im crazy for even thinking it. They pay for an account which inflates the game's subscription. It may keep the game in commission longer. Possibly most exploit it to make alot of adena, but if bots didnt exist how many A grade / S / S 80 Items would be floating out there. They would need to increase the drop rates of other raid boss mobs besides the big epic ones, to be on scale so not only big guilds can kill them.
What would the world be without any evil? Would there be good? How would we know the difference?
the real question is, would this game still be alive if there werent bots?
no. without the subscription money from bots it would have shut down years ago
And I would add, just like in the PTS, start them all at level 76 (or 81 or 85, who cares) and give them items from the NPCs and free adena per day or week to pvp all they want till the end of L2.
Actually it's all a question about demand and supply.
Why are so many boting their lvls?? I guess they want to reach endgame content fast and don't have time for the grind. Well, why not give them a server where they get x10, x100 or x1000 XP. Those that want to play on this server can do so.
Why do farmers create bot trains?? I guess there are to many ebuyer that want the most uber equipment this game can offer. Give them a server where they can get this stuff easily and those that want to play on this server can do so.
NC now have 8 servers, and they are all configured the same way. But right now the boters are QQ because they are banned and the legit QQ because NC don't ban enough, and no one are happy about the situation. I believe that if NC actually tried to figured out why so many bot and tried to figure out a way to give them what they want, they would get a lot more subscriptions.
Hell... If they made a server like the PTS (x10 XP, and the cats shop) and said that they would never check it for bots, a lot of people would actually play on it. And NC would have a perfect server to test new bot (cheat) detection features on both the client and server side. And (hopefully) there would be less bots on the remaining servers.
Actually it's all a question about demand and supply.
Why are so many boting their lvls?? I guess they want to reach endgame content fast and don't have time for the grind. Well, why not give them a server where they get x10, x100 or x1000 XP. Those that want to play on this server can do so.
Nope. The last thing the cheaters would want is an equal playing field.
And there is not really so many cheaters in the game. There is only so few legits staying.
IF they make a server where botting is allowed, it would end very bad imho.
its just the same as runing a computer w/o anti-virus protection, that will make a mess too on the end of the line.
They just should keep the gameplay like it is, but you are right .. its slow leveling on the other hand but it was more worse 5 years ago in the beginning of L2
Nope. The last thing the cheaters would want is an equal playing field.
And there is not really so many cheaters in the game. There is only so few legits staying.
On the server i play the legits quit the game becaus they are outleveled -geared and becaus all of this there is no competition ( read fun ) anymore
Nope. The last thing the cheaters would want is an equal playing field.
And there is not really so many cheaters in the game. There is only so few legits staying.
You may be right...
But I think NC is fighting bots like the music industry is fighting illegal downloading.
Trying to stop services like Pirate Bay and try catching one downloader after the other is clearly not working. New services like PB will come and people will continue to download.
Trying to stop programs like L2w and banning one bot after the other is clearly not working. New programs will be made and people will continue to bot.
I think it's about time they (NC) try a new approach.
IF they make a server where botting is allowed, it would end very bad imho.
its just the same as runing a computer w/o anti-virus protection, that will make a mess too on the end of the line.
It could be that it ends bad, but antivirus companies DO set up "honeypots", PC's with no antivirus. They do this because they want to know what damage viruses do on PC's and how they work. In this way they can improvements to their software.
Hm yea add new server with x3 rate or something, otherwise setting a new normal server is pointless. Most of the current ones are pretty much empty anyway.
Hm yea add new server with x3 rate or something, otherwise setting a new normal server is pointless. Most of the current ones are pretty much empty anyway.
isnt that a good reason to merge then in case of making a new one ?
Look at video. Around 1,05 and 1,27 you'll see the monitoring screen flooded with GameGuard messages. Would be really interesting to know what it's really capable to detect...
IF they make a server where botting is allowed, it would end very bad imho.
its just the same as runing a computer w/o anti-virus protection, that will make a mess too on the end of the line.
Sony did this with Everquest 2, they made 2 servers which users could sell money on through auctions also sell characters etc, that trade to the accounts when auction complete.
There game doesnt have as strong as a foundation as Lineage 2. It probally would be a more succcesful buisness model. for l2.
But the truth is when all the bots leave to bot on top of each other they will make adena worth 1 cents lol =). Than on regular servers the price of A grade will go to 500 million and people will be like, OMG where are the bots we have less materials in circulation.
Everything effects everything. When theres a banning it effects everybody its taking money out of economy. Cost of living just becomes more expensive.
if people can't afford 500 mil for their a grade, they won't be able to sell it for 500 mil in the first place. they'd find a happy balance.
i do miss the times when a clan worked together to gear the players. i remember xp'ing on the oel mahums to farm sls blades for all the glads and bd's in clan...then running into war tags and fighting for the spots.
not many people left from the pre c2 days that played the game that way thou ^^"
in those days ppl would for example actually go xp with a spoiler or help lvling their clan warsmiths & farm recs so they could craft their equipment..
If a 100% legit server was created then I am pretty sure that we all (legit folks) would want to transfer there leaving few people for the botters/ebayers to dominate. The botters only play to dominate the ones who don't cheat and the adena farmers are there to cater for them. Most of the money from this game comes from having a nice balance between adena farmers, botters/ebayers and legit players - as long as you put on a front that you are working in the best interest of the legit players (without whom the other 2 types would not exist long) and make token bannings etc. then the subs keep coming in every month.
It is strange that the legit players would happily keep playing forever without the other 2 types of 'players' but there is not much money in this. It was a nice idea but nothing like this will ever happen.
It's time to accept that the game runs EXACTLY as NC SOFT wants it (they want botters with multiple accounts and adena farmers with multiple accounts - but in balance) and this will NEVER EVER change.
p.s no-one from nc soft reads any of these threads in here anyway
Farmers never really bothered me, but something needs to be done w/ all of the people that bot up just to talk sh** to everyone in hero. And on top of that it would help get rid of all the one sided zergs on all the servers. Maybe then pvp would actually be a little more fair and enjoyable on a realistic level. No more lvl 85 toons running around w/ +30 skills and a +6 s80 set. Just imo.
Farmers never really bothered me, but something needs to be done w/ all of the people that bot up just to talk sh** to everyone in hero. And on top of that it would help get rid of all the one sided zergs on all the servers. Maybe then pvp would actually be a little more fair and enjoyable on a realistic level. No more lvl 85 toons running around w/ +30 skills and a +6 s80 set. Just imo.
don't take the sh** they talk.
I personally don't talk trash, and I don't listen to it. I absolutely hate it when I can't ignore it though, like in vent, where it's 10x worse than what they'll say ingame (at leastthats what it's like with the clan I play with).
i don't mind the talk so much as sayha has developed into the mickey mouse club...hate or not, they all seem like they're in one big club where everyone knows their real names and where they live and such.
It's time to accept that the game runs EXACTLY as NC SOFT wants it (they want botters with multiple accounts and adena farmers with multiple accounts - but in balance) and this will NEVER EVER change.
The game still runs because NC Korea still does not want to accept the failure of its core title on the NA market. If the new core title, Aion, succeeds there, it could mean the end of L2 NA servers (dunno if Euro servers will live a bit longer, though).
the real question is, would this game still be alive if there werent bots? Would the pricers of items be higher? In the current state of the game. would people cry more?
If we took out all the bots tommorow wouldnt it hurt the economy even though it might steal your experience grind spots. I dont know, Maybee im crazy for even thinking it. They pay for an account which inflates the game's subscription. It may keep the game in commission longer. Possibly most exploit it to make alot of adena, but if bots didnt exist how many A grade / S / S 80 Items would be floating out there. They would need to increase the drop rates of other raid boss mobs besides the big epic ones, to be on scale so not only big guilds can kill them.
What would the world be without any evil? Would there be good? How would we know the difference?
You really dont know a s... about the crafting and anything related to that system, dunno for S80 but with a full party oriented to farm especif things i can craft 4 full S grade sets/week, for S 80 would be more than that for sure i dont even look at those since im long far away of that level, look at the S80 prices was 10b+++ on the beginning now you see already full sets for 7b on my server in 3 or 4 months that will probably drop to 5b or less do you think thats done by bots?
If a 100% legit server was created then I am pretty sure that we all (legit folks) would want to transfer there leaving few people for the botters/ebayers to dominate. The botters only play to dominate the ones who don't cheat and the adena farmers are there to cater for them. Most of the money from this game comes from having a nice balance between adena farmers, botters/ebayers and legit players - as long as you put on a front that you are working in the best interest of the legit players (without whom the other 2 types would not exist long) and make token bannings etc. then the subs keep coming in every month.
It is strange that the legit players would happily keep playing forever without the other 2 types of 'players' but there is not much money in this. It was a nice idea but nothing like this will ever happen.
It's time to accept that the game runs EXACTLY as NC SOFT wants it (they want botters with multiple accounts and adena farmers with multiple accounts - but in balance) and this will NEVER EVER change.
p.s no-one from nc soft reads any of these threads in here anyway
I don't see how this would be disasterous. It would cause some changes, yes, but not disasterous ones.
First, alot of legits would indeed transfer to the new server for the chances at a new beginning. This would thin out some of the other servers quite a bit. Also, alot of farmers would rush to this server with the intention of setting up shop and trying to get around any new security measures that are presented. Also bot programmers that cater to L2 would start trying to make their programs harder to detect so that they can still sell to people on this new server.
BUT...
There's a good chance that the new server population will be almost all legit and new people. So there won't be a market for any of these things and it will be easier to spot people that are trying to use these programs. This will lead to better control over botted up toons. Also, it will lead to more realistic market prices instead of the farmer controlled markets we have now.
Eventually, the next step on the remaining servers would be consolidation. This would bring more of the like-minded people together so that they can have the competition they crave (i guess). Also it would reduce NCSoft's expenses with the number of servers they're currently having to monitor. Plus if you have alot of bot-friendly or farmer friendly people together on these servers, you should have a significant reduction in all GM petitions about bots here as well. GM's can still go ban people on the consolidated servers to keep the farmers/botters buying new accounts, and on the heavily GM'd server there would be no banning, only reductions in capabilities and levels. So in the heavily GM'd server, you would only have voluntary reductions in revenue and those that had a problem with a GM action can always just move back to one of the other servers.
Also, think of all the people that left the game because of bots and people with unfair advantages. These people can come back to a game they loved and have a fresh start. L2 can get a new revenue boost from old customers. Then on forums where people bash L2 as being overrun with bots, you can always counter post..."Not on this server", which gives people a good outlet to go and explore. This kind of action can make the game more popular than it currently is.
i played aion two weeks ago with the elyos beta. it doesn't really make sense to me to bot, to be honest. the quests give so much more xp than grinding does and the quests aren't like l2 at all.
money wasn't even an issue for me, either.
granted it's wow 1.5 and they lie about the freedom flying gives you since you really can't fly hardly at all...but it's pretty good and somewhat balanced.
You really dont know a s... about the crafting and anything related to that system, dunno for S80 but with a full party oriented to farm especif things i can craft 4 full S grade sets/week, for S 80 would be more than that for sure i dont even look at those since im long far away of that level, look at the S80 prices was 10b+++ on the beginning now you see already full sets for 7b on my server in 3 or 4 months that will probably drop to 5b or less do you think thats done by bots?
also consider that they made s80 cake to get...can make a set in like 2 weeks if all you do is grind where you need to.
Would be easier to add a server where boting was allowed...
And if you where caught boting on any other server you would be transferred to this one without the possibility to transfer back :)
It kind of makes sense to give them a home, shame they already have homes.
I would add, if you play on the bot server, you can't play on the other servers. No transfers to or from except for exiles from non-bot. The moment you log a toon from an account into a non-bot server after you have a toon on the bot server, insta-ban.
It kind of makes sense to give them a home, shame they already have homes.
I would add, if you play on the bot server, you can't play on the other servers. No transfers to or from except for exiles from non-bot. The moment you log a toon from an account into a non-bot server after you have a toon on the bot server, insta-ban.
i wouldn't go as far as to restrict legits from making toons on the high-rate. if you get caught cheating on the legit, you're gone and can't come back even with a new toon though.
Sounds like Lineage II balance taken to the next level, IMO.
in one on one pvp it is...in pve, it's a completely different story.
i ended up as a 23 chanter and there wasn't a single duel that didn't end up as a close fight...granted i wasn't 50 like the article is probably talking about.