Good thinking ! Report all day all chars all over the world. I hear ppl say it wont change a thing, GMs know who is botting but they agree, etc. While they might know (it is very possible technically), lots of reports in high traffic areas like catas, HS, BS etc might keep them quiet in other parts not intrfering with legit players.
BAN THE BOTS ! I am thinking of a league of reporters. Make them purple, look for the high level ones, lets clear at least some of the cheaters ! Dont let you report points rot, defy bot protection system by having special report chars without clan, annoy GMs with petitions about botters in towns which cannot be reported otherwise. Franz is getting somewhere, adena prices are rising, more and more rooms in catas free, there are some signs we are not fighting in vain ! Show GMs we are still here, we are the loyal ones that saw 20 bots and no mob to kill in the swamp near de town some years ago. We were not deterred, we are still here, still reporting, still hoping !
Maybe this time, who knows...
M
If this is an ongoing thing then yeah....i can send 5 toons there tonight afterwork :)
I will sit there till tomorrow evening and still hope to see more :) Well I will sit there even longer if this the way to show NC-Soft to do something !
This is more important then exp for me. I play this game for fun not for exp ;)
We getting more and more as the time goes on. There is still hope!
Server going down soon, but will be back... Lets make there market place for legit ppl. Like natural products niches in RL. It may be hard to level as legit, but you wont lose it through ban, it is your achievement, your fun with friends !
I will put titles within the framework of protest and sell/buy when I am afk.
Maybe we organize here a botting report system.
Like some scouts spot important bots (not the chinese farmers, but the guys that prevent us from enjoying all sides of the game), put up a site with a database and whoever wants to do something, search it and go report whoever they know and interfered with their game.
I offer hosting on dedicated server, lets stop complaining and do something nice for this !
M
Sounds Nice just need the ppl will to make that appen :)
I posted a ss last night of them complaining about the ban, but awas removed so i will not put again, just log on Franz and check the bottom of the stairs :)
Sorry to say this im not for bot's but. It sounds like you need to find a better game to play. If you are that board and want to just click a report / kill button which you dont even get items for anymore. Its pretty bad, you get more so penalized if you go red. Which is sad =(. Maybee a job at the FBI for investigation might do you good?
Reporting and sitting in town all day and being lazy doesnt sound like a great game to play. I'd rather go to a club, eat out at a nice fancy restraunt, enjoy some drinks at a lounge. Than do someone else's work.
Now on the other hand if we were rewarded for reporting on a successful ban, it would be a different story but we arent. It's a game its not real life. In real life if I see something Supicious I always say something. But when it comes to a game, I want to do my thing and enjoy it. If i want a spot or something in a room or particular mobs Im going to put on my pk armor / weapons and go for it.
GM should load their database and browse for all lv 82+ and stalk them to see what they up to and then ban them if they cheat/botting.... hire me i will do that for free no charge nothing. :DDDDDD
Ok when servers come back up ... I'll be there! This is a great way to protest Bots lets fill the server to show our support on all servers!
*PASSES BEERS TO PROTESTERS! :D
(hell no we won't go hell no we won't go) Wait sorry wrong protest chant :(
Sorry to say this im not for bot's but. It sounds like you need to find a better game to play. If you are that board and want to just click a report / kill button which you dont even get items for anymore. Its pretty bad, you get more so penalized if you go red. Which is sad =(. Maybee a job at the FBI for investigation might do you good?
Reporting and sitting in town all day and being lazy doesnt sound like a great game to play. I'd rather go to a club, eat out at a nice fancy restraunt, enjoy some drinks at a lounge. Than do someone else's work.
Now on the other hand if we were rewarded for reporting on a successful ban, it would be a different story but we arent. It's a game its not real life. In real life if I see something Supicious I always say something. But when it comes to a game, I want to do my thing and enjoy it. If i want a spot or something in a room or particular mobs Im going to put on my pk armor / weapons and go for it.
When bots come and take your spot you probably go away without a fight. It is your choice, some other ppl are killing them and losing items, i just report. To each his own. Also, when i come to my spot again and is bot infested, I report, no matter if they were there before, it is simply that ppl have priority over computers and bots should move when legit ppl come. Botting programs know each other so this distinction can be made in software.
If you concede, your business, i choose to fight. They have their botted levels, ebayed items and adena, i have the report button, they do not care about lost exp, i am not afraid of being banned, so it is an even fight. The only way to "PvP" bots.
M
Still there are some ppl that are happy when strong players get banned :)
Just lol.
You have missed the point - the toons were baned (from what I have read was not actualy involved in the baning process) because they were not 100% legit - cheating does not make you a strong player, it makes you LOLFail.
You have missed the point - the toons were baned (from what I have read was not actualy involved in the baning process) because they were not 100% legit - cheating does not make you a strong player, it makes you LOLFail.
Reporting like ****a makes you LOLFail. Suxx to fight stronger player?
U guys are awesome :)
I think you misunderstood. I think the OP said "botters were banned". Is a botter your definition of a "strong player" then?
Just lol
Since GM's make stupid mistakes while they ban, I dont think "these banned players" were "unlegit" or w/e.
So seems like if they were "banned" that doesnt mean they were "unlegit". Okay?:)
Since GM's make stupid mistakes while they ban, I dont think "these banned players" were "unlegit" or w/e.
So seems like if they were "banned" that doesnt mean they were "unlegit". Okay?:)
It's a good theory ra***, it just doesn't pass the smell test.
The game managers ban HUNDREDS of accounts per week (probably more than that). They end up re-installing a few of those.
Experience shows that if you are banned, there is a much better than even chance that you violated the EULA.
There are exceptions of course, but on balance, "most" (by far) of the banned accounts are banned correctly and never reinstated.
If these "strong players" of yours were banned, odds are they were guilty as sin.
Since GM's make stupid mistakes while they ban, I dont think "these banned players" were "unlegit" or w/e.
So seems like if they were "banned" that doesnt mean they were "unlegit". Okay?:)
Well nobody banned me in 4 years, so no mistake here. I just take the facts. I see tens of bots daily, i report some i see there next day and i continue to report. Since so few of the reported ones do get banned means that only where there is 100% chance to be botting they ban. I can say that not even 10% of the reports i make end up in ban, so, with a very large margin added i can say i could have reported 100 ppl that got banned and even then i cant be sure it was because of my report and not someone else.
So facts speak clearly, only the most blatant cheaters are banned, those logged while using bugs and similar. This means cheaters still can be "strong" but there is always a chance to get banned, I am not fighting bots because that is what they want, they cheat to look strong in their mind, fighting them just adds tot heir suffering ego, it is sad to be a bot, there are always better bots out there, so even cheating gets you nowhere most of the time.
M
It's a good theory ra***, it just doesn't pass the smell test.
The game managers ban HUNDREDS of accounts per week (probably more than that). They end up re-installing a few of those.
Experience shows that if you are banned, there is a much better than even chance that you violated the EULA.
There are exceptions of course, but on balance, "most" (by far) of the banned accounts are banned correctly and never reinstated.
If these "strong players" of yours were banned, odds are they were guilty as sin.
This is true, NC Soft says they dont ban a good amount of bots because they need to be 100% sure before banning and I can mostly understand why. If someone is banned these days they most likely not only botted but gratously(sp) so. The hero bots/high level player bots are the very most important to ban because those are the ones that make people quit. Cata bots are whatever, they take some xp areas but we often tolerate them. We cannot tolerate botted characters cheating to the top and reaping the rewards.
Well nobody banned me in 4 years, so no mistake here. I just take the facts. I see tens of bots daily, i report some i see there next day and i continue to report. Since so few of the reported ones do get banned means that only where there is 100% chance to be botting they ban. I can say that not even 10% of the reports i make end up in ban, so, with a very large margin added i can say i could have reported 100 ppl that got banned and even then i cant be sure it was because of my report and not someone else.
So facts speak clearly, only the most blatant cheaters are banned, those logged while using bugs and similar. This means cheaters still can be "strong" but there is always a chance to get banned, I am not fighting bots because that is what they want, they cheat to look strong in their mind, fighting them just adds tot heir suffering ego, it is sad to be a bot, there are always better bots out there, so even cheating gets you nowhere most of the time.
M
I only report buffers really, nothing pleases me more than a thought of a bought train who lost their SE/Prophet, ahhh small pleasures.
The recent bans that were on franz actually destroyed the server pvp since it was the clanleader who was banned
and it's little too late to try get rid of the botters, ppl must have done it waaaaay time ago
so, YEAH LETS BAN ALL THOSE **** BOTTERS :D i think that shouldnt kill L2 defenetly?
or it would? hmmm...
maybe if u merge ALL servers together after banning all botters/cheaters maybe we will have 1 nice small server only with legit ppl...
or no...?
That makes no sense at all ... as far as I heard (and I longer play franz so it may be inaccurate) was that 1 party got banned boting Citadel. Tough luck but seriously, 1 party = the server?
Sucks that one of those was a clan leader, I ll say the same thing I said when petitbras got banhammered, don't bot with leader privileges, it was his stupid decision to do so, his fault, don't blame whoever banned him for doing his job, blame your leader who was so stupid he went boting with all your clan's work riding on him not getting caught.
and making that un-ban decision in the first place was a horrible standard for NCSoft to set and ANOTHER example of incompetence.
If the players violated the EULA they should be gone.
As it stands today, many players think that if they raise enough threats they can convince NCSoft to reverse a decision--precisely because NCSoft reversed a decision once before.
Stupid idea in the first place and never should have happened. Doing it again is even MORE dangerous--if that is even possible.
Well many ppl already gone but there were at least some to protest and more shouts against botter then the other way around :)
Thank you all for participating, I will sit there till tomorrow but dont expect many more ppl now.
I only hope NC-Soft saw that there are still legit ppl and go on banning the cheater!
@ZoKy
I really dun care about pvp between bots ....
greetings
PS: Thanks again to all who joined the protest also from the other server!
PPS: Unfortunately I forgot to make some screenies :/ But I'm also not sure if we are allowed to post them here -.-
Any way you can have your protest a bit later in the day? I realize it's a Euro server, but some of us who might have joined just got home 10 minutes ago (It's 6:40pm EST as I write this).
Just a thought. I've got some toons on Franz :)
~D~
and making that un-ban decision in the first place was a horrible standard for NCSoft to set and ANOTHER example of incompetence.
If the players violated the EULA they should be gone.
As it stands today, many players think that if they raise enough threats they can convince NCSoft to reverse a decision--precisely because NCSoft reversed a decision once before.
Stupid idea in the first place and never should have happened. Doing it again is even MORE dangerous--if that is even possible.
That was a justified reversal ... there was no requirement at the time, either in game or by design, for people to be at the npc to port in to tezza. The only requirement was that the command channel leader be there, if he ported everybody in the command channel got ported too.
Thank you Serenety
*passes BEER to all BOT protesters :D
Well we were able to pull a few people to come and join you from Phoenix even there a lot of people realize that this is everyone's problem.
As I said on Franz: BOTS=CANCER and all servers have it!
I did not get on until 6 pm est, but got there as soon as I could! Was worth giving up a night of grinding and I will gladly do so again and I hope others will too!
I DO have pic of a Franz person telling me they are BOT! :eek:
I know our new Mods have also been on top of things and Bans did happen, so a lot of good did come out of your BOT protest! :D
Good Job Serenety you started fires burning now you have to keep it going! ;)
Its just random bannings, ofc they will protest because it means they will have to bot up new characters from scratch - which they undoubtly will.
There are no top players in L2 just cheats with strong toons/gear. If you believe that botting up a strong character makes you a strong player or a better player then you are dillusional.
I'd say unban them and for everyone just let it be. Let the high end botters continue with their meaningless wars between themselves 'cos ultimately they all take the game way too seriously and believe their own (they actually do) so there's no rationalising with them. Its sucks because they dominate legit players to the point where it makes the game no fun at times but this is never going to change, its part and parcel of L2. Just accept this fact, have fun, and try not to get sucked in like so many have.
This thread is funny to me.
You think GM's will bother reading forums or ingame shout before deciding whether to unban or not? :P You're funny.
If they were nailed for botting then they will stay banned.
Although I'm sure they're loving the publicity, ban a few heroes and everyone suddently thinks they care about bots again even though there are still 100 9man parties running around on every single server
This is merely a reaction to botters drama. They started it. We just went there to enjoy the show and take part in it reacting to their drama.
And I really dont understand why they started in the first place ? It was easy botting to level 85, it will be easier from now on, just a bit more euros invested in gear and walker time cards, what's the big fuss about it ?
As legit players must live with the botters which PK them not caring about karma and lost exp, botters should live whith the thought they can be banned, no matter how high, how active, if cl or not, etc. There is a very slim chance to get banned, but there is one. Nitro, FiGG & Co draw the short stick. As we say here, bad hour, 13th black cat, live with it, we say GF when bots kill us, be civilized and swallow the consequences of your acts.
Nobody forces me to be "non -_-ing factor" and not cheat, nobody forces them to cheat, I will never have a castle, they will never be 100% sure their account will be there tomorrow, I will never be able to fight them on equal terms, they will never be able to PK all ppl that report them... Cripes, even bots report bots, so beat that punks !
You can be sure that when bots will stop this "protest" the players will leave too. It remains to get organized OOG.
M
latest news...
Bots say they will be moving on Teon if their fellow automated ppl are not unbanned...
There will be a good idea for all bots to move to Teon and legit ppl on teon to come on Franz. See who has better game then :)
What will the bots do if there is no legit to show how "good" they are ? MvM, machine against machine, best scripter wins !
M
Was nice seeing ppl there from other Servers, imo this should been done on every server, to call more attention, i would laught a lot if every player who really play would stay even untagged instead those afk clans, just to see how really far they can go with the programs doing everything, sadly many ppl want to be known as a strong guy, and for many ppl strong means being with the afk teams, they do epics, have castles, they look nice in top gears...
http://www.littlecats.org/aden.jpg
Nice display...
At the time of taking this picture bots only had 1 representative to "protest" against GMs.
lets hope this is the beginning, not the end.
M
http://www.littlecats.org/aden.jpg
Nice display...
At the time of taking this picture bots only had 1 representative to "protest" against GMs.
lets hope this is the beginning, not the end.
M
I got there with 3 toons around 7 pm uct-5. I sat at the Giran stairs for a while with Johnny until i realized i was at the wrong place :p
When i finally made it to the Aden stairs it was late Euro time and most people had left yet there still was a fair number of folks.
All in all it was pretty peacefull...i think one botter was trying to give people a hard time but was ignored.
It certainly didn't represent all the legits but if you hold this on a regular basis i think it would grow.
Well i jointed them i dont think that will bring smth... you guys need to do more like sending tickets to nc support and keep it going dont stop after one anwer. Iam doing that now since more then one month and they always say they will take action on the ppls i told them but well they still there with many other bots so i keep it going via ticket.
good thing I don't play on franz. blocked Aden stairs is way more annoying than the bots :p
Nah not blocked ... we would not do that, but you do have to do a lot of weaving to get around everyone! :D
aaaah but you see it is working Real Players are coming together. We will gather on every server if need be!
Serenety started the fire now we must keep it going!
Nah not blocked ... we would not do that, but you do have to do a lot of weaving to get around everyone! :D
you need to all cancel your accounts in unison for NCSoft to care. And even then they'll probably ignore you because bot accounts gain them more money.
You entire cause is futile, if they shut down all the bots the game dies right there and then. Economy gets f'ed up, and because the game is so old already it wont have the time it needs to re stabilize.
The hilarious thing is that if everyone who bots decided to do the same with the opposite message, they would not fill aden stairs in franz. They would fill every square inch from gate to gate in aden on all the servers.
you need to all cancel your accounts in unison for NCSoft to care. And even then they'll probably ignore you because bot accounts gain them more money.
You entire cause is futile, if they shut down all the bots the game dies right there and then. Economy gets f'ed up, and because the game is so old already it wont have the time it needs to re stabilize.
hush! Let em figure out themselves! (Lemme gain more exp while they are realising this) ;)
P.S. I'm sure they actually believe in their cause! lolen....
you need to all cancel your accounts in unison for NCSoft to care. And even then they'll probably ignore you because bot accounts gain them more money.
You entire cause is futile, if they shut down all the bots the game dies right there and then. Economy gets f'ed up, and because the game is so old already it wont have the time it needs to re stabilize.
The hilarious thing is that if everyone who bots decided to do the same with the opposite message, they would not fill aden stairs in franz. They would fill every square inch from gate to gate in aden on all the servers.
Actually, they did decide to do that, they could not fill aden square and now have only one untagged low level dwarf. you know why ? Because they are out there afk, getting "strong" to show how "pro" and "l337" they are. Yep, even for chinese farmers, it is bad business to lose paid time for protests. So, guess what, legit ppl have more time to sit in towns while AFK. Bots cant afford either because other bots will get ahead or because they wont gather adena to sell and keep the cheaters happy.
Nope, it wont work.
Economy will readjust in a few days, prices will triple because the items will be much fewer in the high end because bots will be banned while wearing them, you cannot afk anywhere without your armor and weapon, mats will go through the roof like 3-4 times the actual price, but then you will know how hard things are obtained normally. It will be a pride again to wear doom for legit ppl, not to mention nightmare or majestic. Yep, this game is hard, it used to be much, much harder, has been soften for americans, but if it is hard for everybody, who cares... The best will dominate on merit, not based on depth of pockets and shameless cheating.
M
Economy will readjust in a few days, prices will triple because the items will be much fewer in the high end because bots will be banned while wearing them, M
I don't think this is the case. One person that got banned on Phoenix wrote in his farewell post that he was banned but was busy giving out stuff before he logged off. Sounds to me like you can offload all equipment and product before you are prevented from playing the game.
I don't think this is the case. One person that got banned on Phoenix wrote in his farewell post that he was banned but was busy giving out stuff before he logged off. Sounds to me like you can offload all equipment and product before you are prevented from playing the game.
Actually, I think once you are banned, you won't get disconnected, but they will prevent you from logging back in
Theoretically it should even be possible that if you get banned on tuesdat after the maintenance downtime, to stay logged in for a whole week until the next downtime :p
So if you find out about being banned (by not being able to log onto the forums or something like that), you could transfer all your gear to an alt/friend/clan/whatever
Actually, I think once you are banned, you won't get disconnected, but they will prevent you from logging back in
Theoretically it should even be possible that if you get banned on tuesdat after the maintenance downtime, to stay logged in for a whole week until the next downtime :p
So if you find out about being banned (by not being able to log onto the forums or something like that), you could transfer all your gear to an alt/friend/clan/whatever
You gotta wonder about the whole process. I guess its more of a get ride of the botting toon but give the owner the opportunity to off load the equipment/product so that the person can start all over :)
If the person still has all the gear/product then there is real incentive to grab another copy of the game and start over.
SneezingTiger you really believe that with all the cheaters gone it's gonna kill the game don't you? Actions speak louder than words so show us that without you guys our games supposed to die, or do you guys just like hiding behind that threat and are too gutless to proove it? It's a legitimate question and one i'd love an answer to becuase i'm tired of hearing it from you guys.
So either put up or shut up becuase as you can see i'm not the only player whose fed up with hearing that garbage and this Protest show's I was never alone and that we don't want you guys and girls who cheat in our game and it also shows we learned to finally work as a team on this issue and it's a good step in the right direction.
Now let's keep this new teamwork going and build on it becuase it is way overdo but at least it happened. So great job guys seeing us all show teamwork and doing our part to help our new Community Manager get our community cleaned up and let's stay actively working to keep making our community better.
Now I think we all realized Lineage 2 doesn't provide Maid Service so a big "Thank you for the wake up call " shout goes out to Serenity for waking us all up to the fact that we gotta stay on top of policing up "OUR" community becuase now we got one heck of a mess and a complete nightmare to clean up becuase somewhere down the line someone decided to sweep things under the rug and say "I'll eventually get to that." So please no more putting this off and lets stay active in helping to get this cleaned up becuase in the long run it's gonna improove every aspect of the game and make it more enjoyable for everyone.
Another way to show the botters is to give them the cold shoulder in everything. They want to cheat to have Hero's Light post glowy look and blue chat let them and show your not impressed with cheaters by holding your own "Legit players only Olympiads". The Coliseum ,Gludin and Giran arena's can hold those matches but it means you all gotta stay 100% honest with each other and follow your rules you set up for it or it won't work.
Seiges would be hard to do with all the cheaters owning Castles and Forts, but working together we can come up with something till we get the game cleaned up and can go back to using all of the game that was designed for us and not the bot programs that have invaded the game.
Guesse this post is loved it got reputation points awesome.
OK reality check time people ... one party got banned, not every single botter. Quit acting like anything of consequence happened, people get banned everyday, those were just higher profile cause one of the toons was an oly famer TH and another a clan leader of one of the bigger clans.
it's kinda too late to worry about botters, but seems some of you guys dont realise it :)
what SneezingTiger said it's true, yes ncsoft bans some bot here and there, desperatly trying to confince mroe players to stop botting, but it's too late for that
if they would want, they could ban all botters untill tomorrow, but that would be a disaster, and no, l2 wouldnt stand up again after losing 90% or more of l2 players - active or farmers
ppl should have thought about it earlier, and try fix it sooner
I don't think this is the case. One person that got banned on Phoenix wrote in his farewell post that he was banned but was busy giving out stuff before he logged off. Sounds to me like you can offload all equipment and product before you are prevented from playing the game.
It depends, from what I know the GM can kick you right there, also can tell you you were banned, depends on what he wants.
M
OK reality check time people ... one party got banned, not every single botter. Quit acting like anything of consequence happened, people get banned everyday, those were just higher profile cause one of the toons was an oly famer TH and another a clan leader of one of the bigger clans.
Yes, ppl are banned every day, something that most bots came to understand. I keep hearing them telling me to stop talking about botting with them, cause they are afraid to get banned, some know the banning process in detail, showing they already went through it at least once or some other botter they know, so yeah, the word is out that there is banning on an ever increasing scale and better try to stop at least FAW, but what you can do, the other botters are out there, you cant really stop now when you are so close to (insert 8x level here). Just a few more days and you will stop... You will be legit again, like that is possible...
No, bots will keep botting and will be banned, this will not stop here and now, but there is more and more evidence to convince botters that "active players", clan leaders and castle owners, (insert own reason here), will not be banned or if it happens that will be settled against a fee... I keep hearing these days there will be unbanning for a fee ranging from 14 to 30 euros, no doubt rumours launched by bot programmers to keep selling their "product" in spite of the risks involved. Botting will stop when nobody will be able to make it to level 8x on bot before they are banned. I mean, will stop in places that is absolutely necessary to stop, to unscrew high levels, oly, sieges, TW, PvP and such, things that legit ppl are robbed of constantly since the time they are introduced.
I dont care about the chinese farmers, if level is made legit, I can certainly live with ebayers and farmers as long as they leave enough place for legit ppl to level, I am relatively well off financially and everybody can cover basic needs if they think a bit, but I cannot accept being robbed of forts, castles, PvP because of the botting system. I will always fight them for this speciffic reason, not in the fields, because that would be playing by their tune, but using the tools we have, reports, training, autorez, etc. I want the full game FFS, not only the PvE part, we are a PvE clan because of the bots, not by free will...
Once you fight someone which does not care about exp loss, karma, has OE epics and such, then you already lost, time, money, nerves and encourage them to continue that path.
M
Yes, ppl are banned every day, something that most bots came to understand. I keep hearing them telling me to stop talking about botting with them, cause they are afraid to get banned, some know the banning process in detail, showing they already went through it at least once or some other botter they know, so yeah, the word is out that there is banning on an ever increasing scale and better try to stop at least FAW, but what you can do, the other botters are out there, you cant really stop now when you are so close to (insert 8x level here). Just a few more days and you will stop... You will be legit again, like that is possible...
No, bots will keep botting and will be banned, this will not stop here and now, but there is more and more evidence to convince botters that "active players", clan leaders and castle owners, (insert own reason here), will not be banned or if it happens that will be settled against a fee... I keep hearing these days there will be unbanning for a fee ranging from 14 to 30 euros, no doubt rumours launched by bot programmers to keep selling their "product" in spite of the risks involved. Botting will stop when nobody will be able to make it to level 8x on bot before they are banned. I mean, will stop in places that is absolutely necessary to stop, to unscrew high levels, oly, sieges, TW, PvP and such, things that legit ppl are robbed of constantly since the time they are introduced.
I dont care about the chinese farmers, if level is made legit, I can certainly live with ebayers and farmers as long as they leave enough place for legit ppl to level, I am relatively well off financially and everybody can cover basic needs if they think a bit, but I cannot accept being robbed of forts, castles, PvP because of the botting system. I will always fight them for this speciffic reason, not in the fields, because that would be playing by their tune, but using the tools we have, reports, training, autorez, etc. I want the full game FFS, not only the PvE part, we are a PvE clan because of the bots, not by free will...
Once you fight someone which does not care about exp loss, karma, has OE epics and such, then you already lost, time, money, nerves and encourage them to continue that path.
M
who said u cant pvp also on low lvl's? i pvped from when i started and it was always fun :)
no need to throw the guilt that u need to be in pve clan to bots, in every area there are different lvl chars and u pvp/pve/do what u like there ^^
it's kinda too late to worry about botters, but seems some of you guys dont realise it :)
what SneezingTiger said it's true, yes ncsoft bans some bot here and there, desperatly trying to confince mroe players to stop botting, but it's too late for that
if they would want, they could ban all botters untill tomorrow, but that would be a disaster, and no, l2 wouldnt stand up again after losing 90% or more of l2 players - active or farmers
ppl should have thought about it earlier, and try fix it sooner
The trully sad thing is the ydon't evne need to ban all the bots. All the need to do is ban a LARGE chunk of the high-profile bots (old ones are probably too difficult to detect, Unless the yhave trains: IP detect and ban the main account).
Despite all the questionable scare-mongering, server activity would not die. With the top of the cheater food-chain removed, the next guys would take their place. If say, a server has around 7k in it. With about 3k being live players and not boxed-toons/farmers-bots. How the hell would banning like 30 top-end, proven botted accounts cause a server to die?
Banning the entire server is unrealistic anyway. Banning a choice 30-40 accounts per server would have enough of a desired effect that it would eventually solve itself. I know a hell of a lot of botters in game (It's NC Softs job to police the game, not mine). It's sad and I get jealous every now and then when they tell me "You still on your 3rd sub? My 3rd sub SwS is like 78 now ^_^". It's depressing when all I can say is...
"Yeah but at least my account won't get banned...". "True, true, one guy got hit last week. He's QQ-ing on forums, haha, noob-train. Well mate. I won't aim for your lowbie butt first on field, and we can't invite you to main-clan since we are 80++ only". "Ah, hehe... yeah", "Anyways, see you at the siege :D " "Btw the offer is still open. You can sit and leach off my HB/IT/MoS train. You won't get banned as you're just in party. Come on stop being such a lowbie!:P " "Ah.. thanks anyway dude. I'd rather not, no offense..." "Lolololol okays laters! :D"
...
The day I felt I had to appologze for not being 80+ because I am a 'lol-legot' and refuse train invites on my new re-roll is the day I realised that this game is dead, and how despicable a crime it was for the caretakers to neglect it and let it become such a rancid corpse in the babyroom. If NC NA were parents, I'd have you thrown in jail and would never let you out.
So yeah, when I see so much undeserved emotional investment for a game that is a walking corpse, it saddens me that I can only offer disdain and negativity.
You people are wasting your friggin' time!
If this was an initiative by the people who actually run the game, I'd be more than willing to take part even, but NC will likely sit there and get on with their 'jobs', clock out and go home. The truth is a lot of botted players would love to see this also. Some I dare say would even gladly give up their botted 82+ toons if they didn't have to bot to be competitive.
The entire situation is the fault of the people who run the game. For all the idiots who say bs like "you don't need to bot to compete", "or it's the fault of the lazy player-base" etc., get real, grab a clue, and learn what the word 'competition' actually means...
Until NC NA put in more effort to fix the problem, not much will get done, regardless of what the playerbase do... Besides mass rage-quit, but then the game would indeed be finished.
who said u cant pvp also on low lvl's? i pvped from when i started and it was always fun :)
no need to throw the guilt that u need to be in pve clan to bots, in every area there are different lvl chars and u pvp/pve/do what u like there ^^
I meant the real PvP, the PvP for a prize, the one at siege, at TW, I have seen PvP starting in legit clans and making them bot. To recover lost exp and to get a revenge.
Very fine legit clans have been destroyed by PvP and then botting consequences. You may not realize it at first, but once you witnessed it a few times you can acurately predict what will happen. I know, it is hard to understand, I was explaining this to allies and they shoot the messenger and continued with wars which later brought botting and threw the clan back a year.
You can PvP at EV, EG, in catas, etc. I saw S graders coming to PvP 4x ppl in those areas, even training them. PvP makes sense only at high level, when you know the exp lost will hurt the oponent too, there is something to lose for them too, not only to gain. At low levels there is nothing to wagger, 4% you make back in minutes, crap gear to get from reds, the attacker might look like c grader, but could be a bot dressed in c grade, so better give them karma than pvp point. If you can have fun in these conditions, ok, but it does not have to be that way.
M
The trully sad thing is the ydon't evne need to ban all the bots. All the need to do is ban a LARGE chunk of the high-profile bots (old ones are probably too difficult to detect, Unless the yhave trains: IP detect and ban the main account).
Despite all the questionable scare-mongering, server activity would not die. With the top of the cheater food-chain removed, the next guys would take their place. If say, a server has around 7k in it. With about 3k being live players and not boxed-toons/farmers-bots. How the hell would banning like 30 top-end, proven botted accounts cause a server to die?
Banning the entire server is unrealistic anyway. Banning a choice 30-40 accounts per server would have enough of a desired effect that it would eventually solve itself. I know a hell of a lot of botters in game (It's NC Softs job to police the game, not mine). It's sad and I get jealous every now and then when they tell me "You still on your 3rd sub? My 3rd sub SwS is like 78 now ^_^". It's depressing when all I can say is...
"Yeah but at least my account won't get banned...". "True, true, one guy got hit last week. He's QQ-ing on forums, haha, noob-train. Well mate. I won't aim for your lowbie butt first on field, and we can't invite you to main-clan since we are 80++ only". "Ah, hehe... yeah", "Anyways, see you at the siege :D " "Btw the offer is still open. You can sit and leach off my HB/IT/MoS train. You won't get banned as you're just in party. Come on stop being such a lowbie!:P " "Ah.. thanks anyway dude. I'd rather not, no offense..." "Lolololol okays laters! :D"
...
The day I felt I had to appologze for not being 80+ because I am a 'lol-legot' and refuse train invites on my new re-roll is the day I realised that this game is dead, and how despicable a crime it was for the caretakers to neglect it and let it become such a rancid corpse in the babyroom. If NC NA were parents, I'd have you thrown in jail and would never let you out.
So yeah, when I see so much undeserved emotional investment for a game that is a walking corpse, it saddens me that I can only offer disdain and negativity.
You people are wasting your friggin' time!
If this was an initiative by the people who actually run the game, I'd be more than willing to take part even, but NC will likely sit there and get on with their 'jobs', clock out and go home. The truth is a lot of botted players would love to see this also. Some I dare say would even gladly give up their botted 82+ toons if they didn't have to bot to be competitive.
The entire situation is the fault of the people who run the game. For all the idiots who say bs like "you don't need to bot to compete", "or it's the fault of the lazy player-base" etc., get real, grab a clue, and learn what the word 'competition' actually means...
Until NC NA put in more effort to fix the problem, not much will get done, regardless of what the playerbase do... Besides mass rage-quit, but then the game would indeed be finished.
You will get banned for sitting in a bot train, the whole party gets banned.
I do not say you dont need to be a bot to compete, I say you can still have fun in these conditions. And it is not only NCsoft fault, tho it is 90% theirs, but now we have some tools, if we get organized we can see perma purple bots, we will force NCsoft to introduce yet another hurdle for us in the bot protection system, like a bot can only be reported once in half an hour and all reports will expire in 1 hour or something.
We can force them to show true collors or do something. At least to know if to stay or go.
I look at this as an interesting aspect of the game, bot hunting may be more interesting than mob hunting, depends on the person.
If you grind all day, any minute you can put aside from RL, then you are a lost cause anyway, if not you can have fun and make a difference.
M
P.S. I wound try to refrain from name calling, even if there is no mod.
P.S. 2 Botters try to organize on l2guru and goha, please bring news from there :P
You will get banned for sitting in a bot train, the whole party gets banned.
I do not say you dont need to be a bot to compete, I say you can still have fun in these conditions. And it is not only NCsoft fault, tho it is 90% theirs, but now we have some tools, if we get organized we can see perma purple bots, we will force NCsoft to introduce yet another hurdle for us in the bot protection system, like a bot can only be reported once in half an hour and all reports will expire in 1 hour or something.
We can force them to show true collors or do something. At least to know if to stay or go.
I look at this as an interesting aspect of the game, bot hunting may be more interesting than mob hunting, depends on the person.
If you grind all day, any minute you can put aside from RL, then you are a lost cause anyway, if not you can have fun and make a difference.
M
P.S. I wound try to refrain from name calling, even if there is no mod.
P.S. 2 Botters try to organize on l2guru and goha, please bring news from there :P
botters organizing on goha? what makes you think?
maybe they are normal players from FRANZ that KNOW HOW THE LATEST BANS AFFECTED FRANZ COMUNITY, and try to solve it - did u ever try to think about that? ;)
seems ppl here dont care about the future of Franz, but ppl on goha sure do, and they are trying to not let Franz die and become like all other servers (exept teon) light and pure PvE.
What the hell are you saying Zoky, why the hell you just started using this forum after the bans???
And normal players???
Too bad it was only one party banned and not all or you would be UNABLE TO USE THIS BOARDS
And why the hell a 9 man party banned would affect the Server???
Are them some kind of gods to you or to anyone?
So far what is going on Franz go in other servers too! A bunch of toons use tools to pvp and leveling and them they call to the ppl who really like to play this game the LOL Legits, why would the server lose anything if you all move out? call it dead let it go dead then, i prefer it dead instead of seing ghosts everywhere, isnt that dead? for me is even worst!
What differences for a real player is a server with less ppl inside if 80% of them are not live anyway and only log for olympiad and sieges compared to a server where you would be able to play the game as it was designed and to have the fun from it?
Why the hell you all dont move to Teon once for all? There is so many ppl there you all love why the hell you stay on Franz, move once for all, let it be dead!
But off course you can't do on Teon the same you do on franz!
Im just tired of ppl like that, just too bad so many few point the fingers, dunno if they are afraid to be hunted or what the problem is, i really don't care and gladly most of my trusted ppl have no problems with that.
Just leave this bad server, let the economy explode like some other say! At least it would be the same for everyone who play if you really believe the Bot Farmers helping on he economy at all!
This thread is not to list ppl or i would post a lot of them here, for you is more funny to see LOL Heroes running with 2 automated healers on the back and with 2 nukers auto targeting any one who target them!
Compared all options, yeah thats the server i want to play, instead having ppl organizing for blame against the ppl who really like to play organize and move everyone even from other servers to teon, and let the real fun be on the other servers!!!
OMFG !!! That really made my day, I am still laughing !!!
It had the unique hat or something, jesus, that man surely was not botting, that is the sign of legitimacy, incompatible with walker, they are cl important ppl, could have not been botting, a lot of evidence GMs made a mistake, bwahahahah, incredible, this is the most hilarious story I ever heard, indeed, ban more bots, we want drama ! If we dont have the bread, at least the circus is worth the money !
M
P.S. I know bots tried to organize a party to pk me because I am one of the ppl that do not let their report points rot, please ppl, hunt me down on all server, but, wait, it is kinda hard to do it while AFK, right ? Not to mention after being banned ! I am not afraid of any botter, I will be happy to be PKed, this means bots indeed start to fear GMs and turn against the "nonfactors"...
Don't be afraid ppl, botters cant afford to stop botting, other botters will get ahead of them, they will lose their castles and bragging rights as heroes... Even if they PK you, there is always high level rezzer and at our levels it is perfectly possible to make back lost exp in half an hour tops, go out there and report clannies of those that PKed you speciffically, this is the only fight they cant win ! There is the rift, there are kamalokas, dont be afraid, if indeed there is someone afraid, which i doubt.
If you are afraid in a game, how are you in front of your boss ? Most robberies are successful because ppl are afraid to call the police. Dont let 12 yo or ppl with 12 yo mentality rob the money you spend on a game to have fun, if you are afraid you dont have fun ! It is a game, nobody loses the house, be a lion at least here if you cant in rl !
I believe the getting together of legits...and non legits pretending...was to show some support for the actions taken by the NC GMs in banning that bot group.
The non legits staged a protest.
The original poster asked for people to show up in support of NC's decision. That's why i showed.
I don't expect to change the world by attending the sit in. Those that are trying to put that spin on it are just trying to set you up for a disappointment. They have their own reasons.
If NC gets the message that the legit players are happy with their action and support those actions than we have accomplished what the OP wanted. If we save the world as a result.....then its a nice bonus.
Currently with the mood to keep up a massive fight against the players who keep screwing the servers, a lot of ppl say its useless but what more then useless to stay with crossed arms without doing anything, you get a no and you quit complaining?
Actually, they did decide to do that, they could not fill aden square and now have only one untagged low level dwarf. you know why ? Because they are out there afk, getting "strong" to show how "pro" and "l337" they are. Yep, even for chinese farmers, it is bad business to lose paid time for protests. So, guess what, legit ppl have more time to sit in towns while AFK. Bots cant afford either because other bots will get ahead or because they wont gather adena to sell and keep the cheaters happy.
Nope, it wont work.
so you're saying they can't because they don't? O_o.
Of course they wont, cause it's a f'ing stupid thing to do. I was just trying to illustrate how many more of them there are than you, and how many times more money NCSoft earns from them.
Economy will readjust in a few days, prices will triple because the items will be much fewer in the high end because bots will be banned while wearing them, you cannot afk anywhere without your armor and weapon, mats will go through the roof like 3-4 times the actual price, but then you will know how hard things are obtained normally. It will be a pride again to wear doom for legit ppl, not to mention nightmare or majestic. Yep, this game is hard, it used to be much, much harder, has been soften for americans, but if it is hard for everybody, who cares... The best will dominate on merit, not based on depth of pockets and shameless cheating.
M
If you honestly believe the ecnomy would stabilize in a few days you don't understand the magnitude of the problem
SneezingTiger you really believe that with all the cheaters gone it's gonna kill the game don't you? Actions speak louder than words so show us that without you guys our games supposed to die, or do you guys just like hiding behind that threat and are too gutless to proove it? It's a legitimate question and one i'd love an answer to becuase i'm tired of hearing it from you guys.
So just because I think you're nuts I'm a bot? Anyway, here is your answer
1)Most accounts break EULA.
2)The game is on a decline as far as subscription goes
3)When it's no longer possible to profit from the L2 that NCWest runs then it will be shut down.
those 3 things are your proof.
If you go ahead and remove the majority of all paying accounts you remove nearly all income from subscriptions. Whats left will not be enough to continue profiting
NCSoft is a company. And that is why all of this is completely pointless.
They care about money. They'll ban 100 accounts if they think it'll bring 110 new ones.
I think this will end one or 2 ways.
A) nothing happens, and the same thing continues, a bot party banned here and there, nothing major, like its been for the last couple of years
B) They go out and ban a lot** of accounts, you all go crazy and go tell all your friends how your prayers have been heard and how much the dev's and GM's care about you. Then they'll go back to the way it was. ban a few rarely so they can say they do "something"
** lot meaning a few high profile botters, heroes, clan leaders, etc.
Very few overall accounts. Minimal impact on their subscription numbers, but maximum impact on the player base
Thinking they will ban all bot accounts, half of them, a quarter or even 10% is just stupid. Noone is going to pay them for that, so they wont do it.
Don't get me wrong. This would have worked if it had been done 4 years ago and kept up. The game wouldn't have died from the account losses, it would be new enough that people would be exited about it when they heard bots were being banned.
But now? It would kill the game.
LOL Awesome and yea petitioning that exact same things really gonna get those accts unbanned lol that just killed all thier pathetic hopes to get a bot train unbanned. Priceless and a clan leader to boot that shows respect for his clan and he musta took a page from Frankees book on how to get banned while being a clan leader lol.
No advertising and botters killed the game and now if they get the game cleaned up and advertising issues fixed you'd see your wrong about game dieing but lets see what the devs do.
Yeah Sneez and how many ppl dont play the game for the 3rd part users problem?
How many ppl answer you things like "You play Lineage!!! only things i heard is that game is only bots"
I cant put all the things here to not break this thread, the game losing all subscriptions? no for sure, losing 1 or 2 server options? that yes probably, i stick with the main idea i prefer to see the dead server instead the game filled with robots, this is a mmog game not a mrog (massive robots online game).
those 3 things are your proof.
If you go ahead and remove the majority of all paying accounts you remove nearly all income from subscriptions. Whats left will not be enough to continue profiting
In theory yes, but if ncsoft have did their job, maybe 10% of 14 millions L2 fans playing in private server can stay in official server, now ncsoft is junkie need the bot drug to stay alive
No advertising and botters killed the game and now if they get the game cleaned up and advertising issues fixed you'd see your wrong about game dieing but lets see what the devs do.It's too late to advertize this game. It came out at around the same time WoW did. This did horrible, WoW did amazing, there are nobody left who WOULD play MMO's who doesn't play WoW already.
If you follow general MMO-news you might have heard about the "WoW-factor" which is essentially that wow has the entire would-be MMO player, and new games have a hard time capturing players from that game because it is so appealing to the casual player being easy and socially known
Yeah Sneez and how many ppl dont play the game for the 3rd part users problem?
How many ppl answer you things like "You play Lineage!!! only things i heard is that game is only bots"
I cant put all the things here to not break this thread, the game losing all subscriptions? no for sure, losing 1 or 2 server options? that yes probably, i stick with the main idea i prefer to see the dead server instead the game filled with robots, this is a mmog game not a mrog (massive robots online game).
I'll be completely honest with you, the only response I have ever heard when talking about lineage is some form of "what is that"
People don't even know wth it is.
You underestimate the amount of bots, they are by themselves paying many many times as much as all of the legit accounts combined.
Every character in every 9 man party in every catacomb on every server pays the same as you do for your account.
and that's just the catacomb/necropolis dungeons.
The reason they do pay that is because there is a market for high level characters and adena. It is profitable for them to pay the account subscription for X months and resell the accounts later. If there wasn't a market for that then the only people who would still bot would be doing it for their own personal EXP, and I doubt there are a lot of those, but it's hard to tell because they care about the accounts and their reputation, botting in low-traffic places and at odd times of the day/week
so you're saying they can't because they don't? O_o.
Of course they wont, cause it's a f'ing stupid thing to do. I was just trying to illustrate how many more of them there are than you, and how many times more money NCSoft earns from them.
If you honestly believe the ecnomy would stabilize in a few days you don't understand the magnitude of the problem
So just because I think you're nuts I'm a bot? Anyway, here is your answer
1)Most accounts break EULA.
2)The game is on a decline as far as subscription goes
3)When it's no longer possible to profit from the L2 that NCWest runs then it will be shut down.
those 3 things are your proof.
If you go ahead and remove the majority of all paying accounts you remove nearly all income from subscriptions. Whats left will not be enough to continue profiting
NCSoft is a company. And that is why all of this is completely pointless.
They care about money. They'll ban 100 accounts if they think it'll bring 110 new ones.
I think this will end one or 2 ways.
A) nothing happens, and the same thing continues, a bot party banned here and there, nothing major, like its been for the last couple of years
B) They go out and ban a lot** of accounts, you all go crazy and go tell all your friends how your prayers have been heard and how much the dev's and GM's care about you. Then they'll go back to the way it was. ban a few rarely so they can say they do "something"
** lot meaning a few high profile botters, heroes, clan leaders, etc.
Very few overall accounts. Minimal impact on their subscription numbers, but maximum impact on the player base
Thinking they will ban all bot accounts, half of them, a quarter or even 10% is just stupid. Noone is going to pay them for that, so they wont do it.
Don't get me wrong. This would have worked if it had been done 4 years ago and kept up. The game wouldn't have died from the account losses, it would be new enough that people would be exited about it when they heard bots were being banned.
But now? It would kill the game.
Break the circle and think outside the dogma.
How many free servers are out there ? Half the ppl that quit from what i know quit because of bots. They did not leave l2, went to privates, same, about half of them so lets say 25% of ppl that left would return if the bots would be kicked. They still have accounts, levels, perhaps no gear, but that is hardly a problem, NCSoft will provide like in the past some shadow stuffs for starters.
25% of returning players is HUGE. will triple actual population, -bots, say 10% of the accounts (bots that matters, not farmers)
It would be a huge benefit for NCSoft to ban high level botters and would lose almost nothing, they will return botting and will be banned again anf again, I would ban only level 65+ bots, it is easy to get there and then you have free land to exp. Farmers will remain to sell their adena, only stupid ppl would buy it, mats will continue to be low priced, eceonomy would go ahead, nobody will really lose except the shameless cheaters, all others will benefit.
Think out of the dogma the high level cheaters imposed on you. Once you freed your mind, everything is ok.
Some ppl will say boot farmers too... Well, that is not so simple because NCSoft will probably not like that, because indeed those bring a substantial number of subscriptions and new keys on a regular basis. They are not annoying right now, adena prices will be high, but mats cheap, only inconvenient will be some problems in leveling 40-65, but that is a small price to pay for really a huge boost for l2.
We wont get anything, they would prefer to let it die as before if we are talibans, need to think a sollution which is best for all parties, players and company alike.
This is the only solution I can think of which is very cheap and has huge benefits.
M
What the hell are you saying Zoky, why the hell you just started using this forum after the bans???
And normal players???
Too bad it was only one party banned and not all or you would be UNABLE TO USE THIS BOARDS
And why the hell a 9 man party banned would affect the Server???
Are them some kind of gods to you or to anyone?
So far what is going on Franz go in other servers too! A bunch of toons use tools to pvp and leveling and them they call to the ppl who really like to play this game the LOL Legits, why would the server lose anything if you all move out? call it dead let it go dead then, i prefer it dead instead of seing ghosts everywhere, isnt that dead? for me is even worst!
What differences for a real player is a server with less ppl inside if 80% of them are not live anyway and only log for olympiad and sieges compared to a server where you would be able to play the game as it was designed and to have the fun from it?
Why the hell you all dont move to Teon once for all? There is so many ppl there you all love why the hell you stay on Franz, move once for all, let it be dead!
But off course you can't do on Teon the same you do on franz!
Im just tired of ppl like that, just too bad so many few point the fingers, dunno if they are afraid to be hunted or what the problem is, i really don't care and gladly most of my trusted ppl have no problems with that.
Just leave this bad server, let the economy explode like some other say! At least it would be the same for everyone who play if you really believe the Bot Farmers helping on he economy at all!
This thread is not to list ppl or i would post a lot of them here, for you is more funny to see LOL Heroes running with 2 automated healers on the back and with 2 nukers auto targeting any one who target them!
Compared all options, yeah thats the server i want to play, instead having ppl organizing for blame against the ppl who really like to play organize and move everyone even from other servers to teon, and let the real fun be on the other servers!!!
why you think that i would have to be banned? again going to some stupid conclusions.
and yes, i have 700 and mroe posts on l2blah cuz i think that forum is more useful than this one, so?
it's even useless to post in here tbh, you are bounch of guys with forcly closed eyes barricated in ur cages.
Break the circle and think outside the dogma.
How many free servers are out there ? Half the ppl that quit from what i know quit because of bots. They did not leave l2, went to privates, same, about half of them so lets say 25% of ppl that left would return if the bots would be kicked. They still have accounts, levels, perhaps no gear, but that is hardly a problem, NCSoft will provide like in the past some shadow stuffs for starters.
25% of returning players is HUGE. will triple actual population, -bots, say 10% of the accounts (bots that matters, not farmers)
It would be a huge benefit for NCSoft to ban high level botters and would lose almost nothing, they will return botting and will be banned again anf again, I would ban only level 65+ bots, it is easy to get there and then you have free land to exp. Farmers will remain to sell their adena, only stupid ppl would buy it, mats will continue to be low priced, eceonomy would go ahead, nobody will really lose except the shameless cheaters, all others will benefit.
Think out of the dogma the high level cheaters imposed on you. Once you freed your mind, everything is ok.
Some ppl will say boot farmers too... Well, that is not so simple because NCSoft will probably not like that, because indeed those bring a substantial number of subscriptions and new keys on a regular basis. They are not annoying right now, adena prices will be high, but mats cheap, only inconvenient will be some problems in leveling 40-65, but that is a small price to pay for really a huge boost for l2.
We wont get anything, they would prefer to let it die as before if we are talibans, need to think a sollution which is best for all parties, players and company alike.
This is the only solution I can think of which is very cheap and has huge benefits.
M
Why are exp bots and farmer bots any different from eachother?
It's too late to advertize this game. It came out at around the same time WoW did. This did horrible, WoW did amazing, there are nobody left who WOULD play MMO's who doesn't play WoW
I'll be completely honest with you, the only response I have ever heard when talking about lineage is some form of "what is that"
People don't even know wth it is.
You underestimate the amount of bots, they are by themselves paying many many times as much as all of the legit accounts combined.
Every character in every 9 man party in every catacomb on every server pays the same as you do for your account.
and that's just the catacomb/necropolis dungeons.
The reason they do pay that is because there is a market for high level characters and adena. It is profitable for them to pay the account subscription for X months and resell the accounts later. If there wasn't a market for that then the only people who would still bot would be doing it for their own personal EXP, and I doubt there are a lot of those, but it's hard to tell because they care about the accounts and their reputation, botting in low-traffic places and at odd times of the day/week
You bring in another point here and must be adressed. You say lower level bots are botting for selling chars later... No, the chinese bot for adena/mats->adena to sell. There is much more lucrative to "powerlevel" someone than sell bot. The ppl that leave are selling their accounts to recover at least a part of the money they were robbed off.
You wont see a bot with noblesse, legit name, recs and such being sold by bot sites. The times when it was huge demand for botted accounts is gone. You dont really think the huge amount of bots really find someone to sell their hhjgjhf chars, dont you ?
And, you say that only if high level botters remain the low level ones will have a market. Only partly true. As I said and proved, most farmers farm for adena to sell, a level 85 botter will not buy adena, it can raid frintezza, use manor in castles, most of them sell adena to sites for time cards, because they are kids with no income so this is how they pay for their game.
Once you are level 85 you have more adena than you need for gear, or if you dont have, it is simple to get it. Only braindead ppl buy adena at that level, most ppl that buy adena are at A/S grade limit where you can no longer provide for yourself using traditional ways like ews and other non-time intensive ways. If you are smart you can get much more money than needed here too, but most ppl are not, so the market for adena will still be there.
Everybody happy.
M
You bring in another point here and must be adressed. You say lower level bots are botting for selling chars later... No, the chinese bot for adena/mats->adena to sell. There is much more lucrative to "powerlevel" someone than sell bot. The ppl that leave are selling their accounts to recover at least a part of the money they were robbed off.
You wont see a bot with noblesse, legit name, recs and such being sold by bot sites. The times when it was huge demand for botted accounts is gone. You dont really think the huge amount of bots really find someone to sell their hhjgjhf chars, dont you ?
And, you say that only if high level botters remain the low level ones will have a market. Only partly true. As I said and proved, most farmers farm for adena to sell, a level 85 botter will not buy adena, it can raid frintezza, use manor in castles, most of them sell adena to sites for time cards, because they are kids with no income so this is how they pay for their game.
Once you are level 85 you have more adena than you need for gear, or if you dont have, it is simple to get it. Only braindead ppl buy adena at that level, most ppl that buy adena are at A/S grade limit where you can no longer provide for yourself using traditional ways like ews and other non-time intensive ways. If you are smart you can get much more money than needed here too, but most ppl are not, so the market for adena will still be there.
Everybody happy.
M
If that is so then why are the 9-man parties so badly set up? Lots of desirable classes, few useful ones. Why not healer buffer and rest destroyers? They would kill faster. Whats with the TK's in there? All the TH's
With the introduction of server transfers the name and reputation is no longer an issue (not to mention most bot trains I see nowadays have normal names, bad, but normal, not random letters)
You can transfer server and leave no trail behind, noone can track where you were before. Perfect for someone who desires to buy an account, no?
Why are exp bots and farmer bots any different from eachother?
if you dont see the difference, then we have a major problem in our discussion.
But I will try to explain.
High level bots are players that play the game. The kids want to have "achievements" and bragg for killing legits and such, therefore they bot to get hero, castles, etc. Some of them are stupid enough to buy adena, but as I said because I know most are selling adena for time cards or pocket money.
Low level bots are poor ppl with a computer that start a little business selling adena. They are the most struggling ppl in L2. The most abused by their customers and NCSoft which takes a huge tax from them, but it is right so because NCSoft provides the game.
They are the ones that actually make the economy you were saying it will collapse if bots are banned. Not the 5% high level bots with castles. Those do not farm varnish, nor seal stones.
We are very annoyed by botted heroes, but hardly annoyed by d grade bones farmers we pass by fast in our leveling experience.
If they ban high level botters, many ppl will return and slowly a part of the farmers will be replaced by real players, nothing willbe sudden, no major earthquake.
M
If that is so then why are the 9-man parties so badly set up? Lots of desirable classes, few useful ones. Why not healer buffer and rest destroyers? They would kill faster. Whats with the TK's in there? All the TH's
With the introduction of server transfers the name and reputation is no longer an issue (not to mention most bot trains I see nowadays have normal names, bad, but normal, not random letters)
You can transfer server and leave no trail behind, noone can track where you were before. Perfect for someone who desires to buy an account, no?
It is obvious you never checked the market for accounts. Or adena. Or items.
Those markets are dead except adena one. i can tell by adena price how the banning goes. It was 7 cents a mil, it stabilized for months at 8.9-9 then suddenly all sellers were sold out and prices jumped at .16 for a few days, now is .11 and will probably rise again.
I see same accounts on sale at ridiculous prices compared to some years ago. Noble account with gear and time cards is sold for 300 USD. Used to be 3k a few years ago yet is there for 2 weeks at least.
If you see desirable accounts it is because they are either pwerleveled or because bots HOPE to sell them later if they make it to high level. But those hopes are dashed, the market is ruined, unless high level bots are banned.
M
I'll be completely honest with you, the only response I have ever heard when talking about lineage is some form of "what is that"
People don't even know wth it is.
Yes i have seen many ppl not knowing about this game, this should be a Nc better work if they want improve the income for players, but not before they work on servers, or the history will repeat, ppl come start very happy and leave after 2 or 3 months.
But i also seen many ppl who know what Lineage is and old players, when i went to Age of Conan i found a lot of ppl from lineage comunity who were there searching for something to replace Lineage, yeah i come back after few months, nothing more on that game to do, a lot of ppl in WOW would in fact come back if by any chance the bots would be under premanent control, and yes theres a lot of bots in wow too, probably even more there but since they are not visible and cannot interfere with the players many ppl ignore that fact, also the dark side market on wow is more powerfull compared to L2.
But with so many ppl leaving for that matter what you think they will say to anyone who ask what games they were playing before?
In my country something around two years ago i found the first Lineage 2 boxes for sell, nobody was buying it, i grabbed the fraps from valakas 1st raid, some videos from NcSoft and some other random pretty well done fraps, we put those videos passing in a monitor wall before one week we have sold all games, some ppl i found who have tested it quit after few time, some didn't like the hard to leveling by that time but the majority was about the robots everywhere!
if you dont see the difference, then we have a major problem in our discussion.
But I will try to explain.
High level bots are players that play the game. The kids want to have "achievements" and bragg for killing legits and such, therefore they bot to get hero, castles, etc. Some of them are stupid enough to buy adena, but as I said because I know most are selling adena for time cards or pocket money.
Low level bots are poor ppl with a computer that start a little business selling adena. They are the most struggling ppl in L2. The most abused by their customers and NCSoft which takes a huge tax from them, but it is right so because NCSoft provides the game.
They are the ones that actually make the economy you were saying it will collapse if bots are banned. Not the 5% high level bots with castles. Those do not farm varnish, nor seal stones.
We are very annoyed by botted heroes, but hardly annoyed by d grade bones farmers we pass by fast in our leveling experience.
If they ban high level botters, many ppl will return and slowly a part of the farmers will be replaced by real players, nothing willbe sudden, no major earthquake.
M
I know what the practical difference is between the 2, but why are they any different in terms of EULA breaking?
Also. the "adena farmer" bots are not poor people starting small businesses like you claim, the businesses that sell adena online are huge and doing extremely well for themselves. A lot of computer power required to run all those bots, but very little manpower.
I know what the practical difference is between the 2, but why are they any different in terms of EULA breaking?
Also. the "adena farmer" bots are not poor people starting small businesses like you claim, the businesses that sell adena online are huge and doing extremely well for themselves. A lot of computer power required to run all those bots, but very little manpower.
In terms of eula breaking it is the same, both qualify for ban, but in terms of harm done to us they are not the same.
And no, as I said you do not know the adena/gold etc business. A huge business affords SSL, merchant bank to accept CC, I buy time cards cause I am from Romania and always had problems with "Fraud suspicion" when using CC from those guys as well I need to pay for toher ppl and, surprise, only wow tc in shops here, it is always the same guy that talks to me, he is on 21 hours of 24 or so, he offered me first to buy my adena in exchange for time card, then he understood wrong my order and told me they are sold out of adena and I should wait another day, they only afford paypal and money orders, if it was so easy to farm adena they would not buy from players, They would have had more staff, update page more often, etc, etc.
M
In terms of eula breaking it is the same, both qualify for ban, but in terms of harm done to us they are not the same.
And no, as I said you do not know the adena/gold etc business. A huge business affords SSL, merchant bank to accept CC, I buy time cards cause I am from Romania and always had problems with "Fraud suspicion" when using CC from those guys as well I need to pay for toher ppl and, surprise, only wow tc in shops here, it is always the same guy that talks to me, he is on 21 hours of 24 or so, he offered me first to buy my adena in exchange for time card, then he understood wrong my order and told me they are sold out of adena and I should wait another day, they only afford paypal and money orders, if it was so easy to farm adena they would not buy from players, They would have had more staff, update page more often, etc, etc.
M
So ... you buy timecards from a site that also sells adena :S
So
a)you are helping farmers
b)are a pretty huge hypocrite
c)and this is funny, do you know or have you ever heard of the few hundred people that got banned on Teon because they bought timecards from one of those big sites that advertise in game? Guess why? Cause the timecards they sold them were fake. Timecard used, they played for a few days/weeks then boom banhammer.
So ... you buy timecards from a site that also sells adena :S
So
a)you are helping farmers
b)are a pretty huge hypocrite
c)and this is funny, do you know or have you ever heard of the few hundred people that got banned on Teon because they bought timecards from one of those big sites that advertise in game? Guess why? Cause the timecards they sold them were fake. Timecard used, they played for a few days/weeks then boom banhammer.
GL and quit preaching
a) If I would have not struggled for 6 months to make NCSoft understand that not all CCs from Romania are fake, I would have said you are right, also if there were time cards in shops here. Since the price is lower than the CC subscription I dont think they make a huge profit anyway.
b) I am not buying adena, I am not botting, so why are you calling names ?
c) I am aware of the risks, however, none of the cards so far were fake and they send me scan of the card. If NCSoft would have had no problems with a client in good standing and not throw me that "Fraud Suspicion" I would have not have a reason to do this. If I will put here their automated answers to my complaints, each automated answer 3 days after my reply when the account was locked for weeks and I had to run through town for hours in the hope I will find some TC, you would understand... Or not ? You bot ot not ?
M
P.S. If the time cards were fake should have not been accepted by the system in the first place. If you knew how the system works, you would know you cant insert some made up code and the system will aknowledge it then GMs will hunt you down for using fake code. It does not work that way.
For those of you think banning bots (farmer bots) will cut down the income for NC, I don’t think that is true. May be few of you remember that (at least I remember) HGMSpam, Omega or someone from NC in some threads (I couldn’t find the thread now) mentioned about the bots do not generate any revenue for them, because most of them are using a stolen credit card to pay for the subscription. They also said each credit card fraud cost them about thousand dollars damage.
Well, you can ask “Do you believing that?” yes, I choose to believing that…The reason behind it is, I believe bots is a major problem over every MMORPG games, and none of the MMORPG game company want the market know they do nothing about bots, so I choose to believe what NC said about that. But for those of you still think banning bots will cut down the income for NCSoft that is your choice. ^^
For those of you think banning all the bots will crash the market of the game. Well, that is a good thing; it means every player have to play Lineage II by it mean, I means what the game is designed originally. Remember, the game is not easy…It required the players working as a team to accomplish something, I think it will benefit for all classes, because now all class have their roles…
BH will become a true money maker as the game description say, because without bots, the live BH are needed, they spoil mat. The BH now they needed in group, because people want them to spoil some key mat.
WS will be welcome to the group, because people want them to get to the needed craft level to craft the gear they want...
I also believe a lot of the players who play lineage II, they are addicted to it, (ok close you eye now and ask yourself, “am I addicted to Lineage II?” For me, I guess I am) they may be burn out for whatever reason (some of those because of the farmer bots/hero bots) and quit the game, but they always come bad to check the game again once in a while. Well, if NC really takes action to ban the bots and 1 day when those players come back, I believe they will stay…
Just my thought, I just speak for myself, you don’t have to agree to me ^^
For those of you think banning bots (farmer bots) will cut down the income for NC, I don’t think that is true. May be few of you remember that (at least I remember) HGMSpam, Omega or someone from NC in some threads (I couldn’t find the thread now) mentioned about the bots do not generate any revenue for them, because most of them are using a stolen credit card to pay for the subscription. They also said each credit card fraud cost them about thousand dollars damage.
Well, you can ask “Do you believing that?” yes, I choose to believing that…The reason behind it is, I believe bots is a major problem over every MMORPG games, and none of the MMORPG game company want the market know they do nothing about bots, so I choose to believe what NC said about that. But for those of you still think banning bots will cut down the income for NCSoft that is your choice. ^^
For those of you think banning all the bots will crash the market of the game. Well, that is a good thing; it means every player have to play Lineage II by it mean, I means what the game is designed originally. Remember, the game is not easy…It required the players working as a team to accomplish something, I think it will benefit for all classes, because now all class have their roles…
BH will become a true money maker as the game description say, because without bots, the live BH are needed, they spoil mat. The BH now they needed in group, because people want them to spoil some key mat.
WS will be welcome to the group, because people want them to get to the needed craft level to craft the gear they want...
I also believe a lot of the players who play lineage II, they are addicted to it, (ok close you eye now and ask yourself, “am I addicted to Lineage II?” For me, I guess I am) they may be burn out for whatever reason (some of those because of the farmer bots/hero bots) and quit the game, but they always come bad to check the game again once in a while. Well, if NC really takes action to ban the bots and 1 day when those players come back, I believe they will stay…
Just my thought, I just speak for myself, you don’t have to agree to me ^^
For those of you think banning bots (farmer bots) will cut down the income for NC, I don’t think that is true. May be few of you remember that (at least I remember) HGMSpam, Omega or someone from NC in some threads (I couldn’t find the thread now) mentioned about the bots do not generate any revenue for them, because most of them are using a stolen credit card to pay for the subscription. They also said each credit card fraud cost them about thousand dollars damage.
Well, you can ask “Do you believing that?” yes, I choose to believing that…The reason behind it is, I believe bots is a major problem over every MMORPG games, and none of the MMORPG game company want the market know they do nothing about bots, so I choose to believe what NC said about that. But for those of you still think banning bots will cut down the income for NCSoft that is your choice. ^^
For those of you think banning all the bots will crash the market of the game. Well, that is a good thing; it means every player have to play Lineage II by it mean, I means what the game is designed originally. Remember, the game is not easy…It required the players working as a team to accomplish something, I think it will benefit for all classes, because now all class have their roles…
BH will become a true money maker as the game description say, because without bots, the live BH are needed, they spoil mat. The BH now they needed in group, because people want them to spoil some key mat.
WS will be welcome to the group, because people want them to get to the needed craft level to craft the gear they want...
I also believe a lot of the players who play lineage II, they are addicted to it, (ok close you eye now and ask yourself, “am I addicted to Lineage II?” For me, I guess I am) they may be burn out for whatever reason (some of those because of the farmer bots/hero bots) and quit the game, but they always come bad to check the game again once in a while. Well, if NC really takes action to ban the bots and 1 day when those players come back, I believe they will stay…
Just my thought, I just speak for myself, you don’t have to agree to me ^^
I wrote that years ago after the GenCon where Spam was kind enough to sit with a group of us all night, drink beer and discuss the game in person.
Before I left for work 6 players were set up on Franz still :D I will set up on all my down time!
This was a reaction to a shameless cheaters gathering that was going too far.
It was not enough they step over the line every day interfering with our game, when finally a small fraction of the cheater's champions got banned they cant take it like men and start botting a new toon to show how good and right they are...
At one point cheaters left the square and it was a word they get their sobs outside of the game, so ppl left on our side too.
In the meantime a few returned, put titles and stuff, we are putting titles also and spread the message all over, I am not afraid to tell my opinion in the fields too, let the bots come kill me, heck, is just a game, if I was played by the game like others i was noble by now at least, even tho probably not level 8o on any of the toons yet.
So, in the end, no cheater was unbanned yet, the circus they made is repreating itself, not much to watch left, so most went away.
I started a project OOG, soon there will be news on this.
Hi *waves and passes BEERS to all Real Players :D
ok new song to sing: *rocks back and forth "All we are saying is give Play a Chance"
My other thread got locked and moved guys :D weeeeee are being noticed!
So what I said in other post I still believe! We got good Mods and good GM's moving again!
YAY! Bans are happening and I'm pleased and they need to stay banned now!
*Huggies and passes BEERS to all Protesters - NOW on to their QQ so-in-so got banned post!!!
Hun, we really should quit drinking that much... it makes our head spinning like crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p
noooo it's just all the stolen BEER you have been drinking ;)
This was a reaction to a shameless cheaters gathering that was going too far.
It was not enough they step over the line every day interfering with our game, when finally a small fraction of the cheater's champions got banned they cant take it like men and start botting a new toon to show how good and right they are...
At one point cheaters left the square and it was a word they get their sobs outside of the game, so ppl left on our side too.
In the meantime a few returned, put titles and stuff, we are putting titles also and spread the message all over, I am not afraid to tell my opinion in the fields too, let the bots come kill me, heck, is just a game, if I was played by the game like others i was noble by now at least, even tho probably not level 8o on any of the toons yet.
So, in the end, no cheater was unbanned yet, the circus they made is repreating itself, not much to watch left, so most went away.
I started a project OOG, soon there will be news on this.
M
ooooow I would have all 7 toons S80 and all jazzed out in top gear and weapons all subbed and maybe even hero's to boot!
After the open letter it seems we have to wait till AION is released maybe they have enough time after that but I doubt it -.-
greetings
[Edit]
I also have to thank you Isabelie for the great effort you put in this! I really like the way how you post and try not to flame the ppl even when they give silly anwsers ;) Keep it up! Cause I'm not really willing to post much in these forums cause many ppl here like only to flame and not to discuss things on an objective level :(
It servers no good purpose being mean to people, even to the opposition. I know I angered a lot of people sitting behind those 3rd party programs. I had a lot of people swearing at me in game for sure. :p
Once people start swearing they loose control of the conversation and there arguments for cheating become even more sillier.
I really didn't do much, other than help get NC's attention. Once we did it was easy for NC to see where the problem is. All we needed to do is step back at that point and let the cheaters hang themselves. ;)
I don't really like having anyone angry at the BEER Dwarfy, but was nice to see that people can turn off their BOT Programs and actually play the game if they wanted too, but I know NC noticed that too. :D
For now I think our BOT Protest is over and I hope NC takes action, because we certainly got their attention. :D
After the open letter it seems we have to wait till AION is released maybe they have enough time after that but I doubt it -.-
greetings
[Edit]
I also have to thank you Isabelie for the great effort you put in this! I really like the way how you post and try not to flame the ppl even when they give silly anwsers ;) Keep it up! Cause I'm not really willing to post much in these forums cause many ppl here like only to flame and not to discuss things on an objective level :(
I discussed obejectively and also had some fun.
Objectively we dont need bots, NCSoft does not need them either. I think it should be like in other games, community GMs that gather reports and evidence recomending some way of action and paid GMs that will actually review the evidence and ban accordingly.
In order for things to be best, the community GMs will be chosen by the official GMs and will have only some tool to record some bot actions and the relevant log entries and a GM will review them later.
Community GMs will also be forbidden to give any details and disclose they are chosen, so many ppl will claim this and botters will not know whom to flag in their program. Also, obviously, the most banned bots will be the most disruptive ones, high level, heroes, griefers, etc. The community knows best.
That is, if indeed, the cause for cheaters roaming free is the lack of time for GMs, which I strongly doubt.
M
I discussed obejectively and also had some fun.
Objectively we dont need bots, NCSoft does not need them either. I think it should be like in other games, community GMs that gather reports and evidence recomending some way of action and paid GMs that will actually review the evidence and ban accordingly.
In order for things to be best, the community GMs will be chosen by the official GMs and will have only some tool to record some bot actions and the relevant log entries and a GM will review them later.
Community GMs will also be forbidden to give any details and disclose they are chosen, so many ppl will claim this and botters will not know whom to flag in their program. Also, obviously, the most banned bots will be the most disruptive ones, high level, heroes, griefers, etc. The community knows best.
That is, if indeed, the cause for cheaters roaming free is the lack of time for GMs, which I strongly doubt.
M
Yeah! it sounds like a super hard task and it may take a while to accomplish, but I for one believe that together with NC and the playing community we can save our servers!
Sneezing if your trying to claim your opinion on these forums is proof to your so called "If us rich kid botters quit Lineage 2 dies threat." think again cuz it's not proof but your assumptions. I'm not gonna buy it so just quit and then after you all are gone I'll see i'm right and the game get played how it's advertised and that's as a PLAYER VERSES PLAYER not a PROGRAM VERSES PROGRAM game that all you kids and adults who are incompetent to follow game rules and play by them have turned this into.
It's posted all over these forums that we don't want you in the game period,so as soon as NCSOFT will grab a pair and take control of thier game and enforce the rules they put in it and not let you punks tell them how it's gonna be the better.
If they can't call the shots in thier own game then i'd like to get my 3 yrs worth of subscriptions money paid back for false advertising and i'll find a game where the company doesn't listen to threats from snot knosed rich kids.
I'm giving the new team a try though so let's see how things go and see if they wanna enforce rules or take them out and give everyone bot programs and super duper over enchanted gear like all the cheaters have. If they do the second then i'm gone and i'll find a new game cuz program verses program isn't worth paying to play cuz i can buy a playstation and do that in smackdown where the computer fights the computer in a wrestling match and it gets boring fast.
So the whole point is enforce the rules you made NCSOFT and clean the trash off our servers please and you'll have alot of happy customers.