The Bot protest on Franz went really well I think! In short order real players gathered from other servers to help bring attention to this problem that we have on all servers!
BOTS=CANCER and all severs have it!
Left unchecked everyone knows were it leads and it has been left for to long now!
I was nose to knee arguing with Bots! one told me to mind my own business and go home"!
"Dude I made a toon on this server and I'm standing right in front of you; This is my home"!
To all Real Players who complain about BOTS
Make a toon and go to Franz. Join us in Aden to show NC we care about our servers!I'm giving up grind time to show my support to our cause! SO how about YOU? Gonna put a toon where your mouth is????
Lyzira Thanks for Your Help and there are real players wanting to get our servers back ... all you need do is go to Franz and look in Aden. A lot of us here are willing to work with you and not just complain on the forums, so if you need us just give a shout! :D Awesome start *passes BEERS
I talk with 420 on phoenix and "confirmed" he did get banned! :(
asked him when he comes back could you just loose the 3rd party program and just play? All we want are real players!
This is great. Though without the community also helping in the other end to get new players and help community sites create enough legit ressources for legit players to use, this effort purely against bots isn't going to help sadly :(
I'm on Phoenix atm but I will create a toon on your server to support you all
Hi *passes BEER to a cool peep from Phoenix
My home is Phoenix also, but the BOT problem spans all servers and we need to gather to fix it.
BOTS did not just happen over night and it will take just as long to clean it up and our mods need to know we support and will help them if it means we get our fields back ... then it will be worth it!
This is great. Though without the community also helping in the other end to get new players and help community sites create enough legit ressources for legit players to use, this effort purely against bots isn't going to help sadly :(
I got a lot of people playing this game and we play for the fun factor. We get to places and its full of Bots, suddenly were trying to figure out how to complete our quest without BOTS stealing mobs. Ok easy enough kill the BOT get karma, but why should I be penalized cuz of a BOT.
If I get Karma will be because I really PKed someone. I don't like hitting things that don't hit back and besides with their program running the BOT just comes back anyway, so you have a vicious cycle.
We have to start somewhere to help clean our servers ... at is point no reason to believe that L2 will market this game anymore ...what would they say to prospective customers anyway! "Come join the BOT Flea Circus!
GET OFF YOUR BUTTS PEOPLE: MAKE TOONS AND GO TO Franz/Aden
It's just a pebble dropped in the water that makes a little splash, but watch how far the ripples go!
Oh I agree that bots are a great problem, I am coming to Frantz too. But if just bots are banned and people still just leave anyway and very few new people come, then whats the point.
Its not just NCSoft that can market a game...players also gauge the community and sites for it and not to mention how much starting information and help there are.
Imagine: www.report-a-bot.org
Choose your server: (server drop-down menu)
Choose a bot-name: (input field) or chose a region: (places drop-down menu)
If your bot name has not been found, please add it to the database: (button to a form where you input botname, last seen, last location, text field for comments up to 255 chars).
We recomend:
Make 2 special chars, report one, untagged to avoid bot protecton system which does not allow players form same alliance report same bot, and a bot killer one, for killing and rezzing till they all uncheck autorez option. Perma red ppl will run around with only augmented weapon because bots dont really fight back. If they do, there will be dedicated players which lead the fight against bots with high level rezzer and/or ready to spend on brez. I have 1.2 bn made in last weeks, i would be one of them.
What do we need:
hosting: I give dedicated server.
programmer: to make that simple interface in PHP for a mysql or postgres backend.
ppl willing to fight the only real and worthy fight in L2.
I was trying to make a ticket system to have a petition system, but all existing ones are a crap and easy to exploit them, i still looking to make that work, but my time is always filled with so many things...
But if i end of with that working i will post it.
Making two toons just to make a reporter one is not so easy, you play on Franz dunno if you can go HB, how you plan to have a second untagged toon there to get a extra report when that place is like afk garden?
hi all! looks like our BOT Protest is gaining momentum; there are more people in Aden now who stand behind this cause!
*passes BEERS to BOT Protesters!
If you don't Stand for Something You will Fall for Anything!
I was trying to make a ticket system to have a petition system, but all existing ones are a crap and easy to exploit them, i still looking to make that work, but my time is always filled with so many things...
But if i end of with that working i will post it.
Making two toons just to make a reporter one is not so easy, you play on Franz dunno if you can go HB, how you plan to have a second untagged toon there to get a extra report when that place is like afk garden?
It is true in some place it is hard for legit ppl to go, but you must understand that less and less bots will make it to level 8x, less and less will resist out there, more and more legit ppl will go there because bots are banned and legits are not, we are very close on franz to getting a critical mass in terms of legit high levels that can in some situations face some newbie bots, even when outmatched in level and gears.
Have you noticed there are more and more legit clans out there, most small, but ppl see there is fun in being with live ppl instaed of looking at monitor all day long seeing same moves, all over again.
About exploiting a ticketing system, well, it all needs some sound design, often backups, ease of use and will take off. Botters will use DDoS on us ? Let them spend more money on buying botnets, it is so easy to move a virtual machine, change IP, provider, etc.
Technical details are to be discussed later, now I need a hobbist PHP programmer to get it started, once we put movies with first perma purple bots, things will cascade 10 folds and bots will be unsafe all over. Legit ppl are the majority, i count as legit those that tried a bot and were unhappy with the results, as well as those ebaying items and adena, only show stoppers are those that destroy oly, sieges and PvP, we can always make enough money for high level gear, I can afford S grade even tho I am 4 levels away, we can do it, will just take more time, what we cant do is getting level 80+ so they will always have an advantage there.
<b><font color="Red">The devil never offers you something you cant achieve alone, will just make it look too hard/impossible without his help to convince you pay a heavy price for it.</font></b>
If you read posts on this subject you see ppl are convinced l2 cannot live without bots, it is too hard to level, blah-blah...
It is hard to level if you solo all day long without a friend to chat to, in the same place, with green or blue mobs, with vita 0, etc... If you cant enjoy the game, quit, this is not a second job, I have fun "grinding", I have fun with the clan life, with the clan drama, i find funny the threats I receive, it is funny when heroes come kill me at siege without being registered for fort, I feel important...
This is a game fox, bot hunting can be much more fun than you think, dont play for level and to feel top of the world, first you may achieve with big sacrifices, but second almost never if you look at things like that. And what will that stand for when L2 will close ? Nothing ! Play the game to have fun NOW, not later, if you cant enjoy, look elsewhere for passing free time.
M
I agree with this post, ill make a toon now to help support the cause.
my reasons?
I hate the idea all the bosss jewels are out there from them and that noone even attempts
these specialty mobs because they are locked down by adena farmers
I hate the fact that every market on every server is screwed because of the cheaters and china farmers.
I hate the idea that they destroyed this game?
maybe we can revive the game through advertisement, bot protesting, and game dev awareness.
I agree with this post, ill make a toon now to help support the cause.
my reasons?
I hate the idea all the bosss jewels are out there from them and that noone even attempts
these specialty mobs because they are locked down by adena farmers
I hate the fact that every market on every server is screwed because of the cheaters and china farmers.
I hate the idea that they destroyed this game?
maybe we can revive the game through advertisement, bot protesting, and game dev awareness.
it isnt farmers camping bosses, friend. its the top clans of the server.
Nova once posted a screen of some of their cwh. tons of jewels sitting there.
it isnt farmers camping bosses, friend. its the top clans of the server.
Nova once posted a screen of some of their cwh. tons of jewels sitting there.
Ive seen the bots on the ant queen on bartz, i cant speak for the other jewels.
i have an opinion on how those boss jewels where obtained by nova. even if they locked it down two or three times, ive never seen nothing but chinese farmers down in the ant queen nest. i cant say i know for sure about the other ones.
rarely ive seen the big clans take interest in getting the jewels, unless they just buy them.
which is what i think everyone who has jewels on do.
on Aria, ive seen our biggest clans come down into the ant nest (while i was exping) to kick their non-alts out. buffing and helping a clan that i have never seen before. no pvp with other clans, and not the main clan's tag down there either.
Ant Queen being such a hard boss to do given its level, its no wonder our top clans are using alts.
on Aria, ive seen our biggest clans come down into the ant nest (while i was exping) to kick their non-alts out. buffing and helping a clan that i have never seen before. no pvp with other clans, and not the main clan's tag down there either.
Ant Queen being such a hard boss to do given its level, its no wonder our top clans are using alts.
when there was a kain, and now that im on bartz, its not the case on these servers,
the ant queen is killed by people named QPV556 and such who dont speak any english
and rez when you kill them 20 times, without ever replying or saying a word to you.
its almost fun trying to beat the botters that come down, however impossible it is.
and i ever doubt any normal sized clan would ever be able to attempt these raids, even if they had the numbers, the bots outnumber the live players 3 to 1 .
if you like you can make an alt on bartz and i can show you,
there will at least be one or two toons down there waiting for the spawn to come up. and if there are any live clans killing her we can ask when the spawn comes up so i can show you how horrible the problem really is.
I understand this isnt always the case, however it is the present problem we have on bartz.
Word to your moms I came to drop bombs
I got more rhymes than the bible's got psalms
And just like the Prodigal Son I've returned
Anyone stepping on me you'll get burned
Cause I got lyrics and you ain't got none
So if you come to battle bring a shotgun
i wonder if people realize what would happen to the servers economy if all the bots were banned. People complain and complain, but if there were not bots, you would never get your s-grade, you would never get your a-grade even for most of you. If we wanted to have fixed this problem, it needed to have been done c3 or before. Its over, done, finished. Move along.
i wonder if people realize what would happen to the servers economy if all the bots were banned. People complain and complain, but if there were not bots, you would never get your s-grade, you would never get your a-grade even for most of you. If we wanted to have fixed this problem, it needed to have been done c3 or before. Its over, done, finished. Move along.
Youre wrong actually... Those of us who don't cheat or happen to get great luck (for example a Top 76 Lifestone drop in varka, Fine white cubics, etc) just simply work hard to get what we want. I'm not embarrased to still be in Majestic armor and using a DLE @78, and to be frank S80 is close, so I've started collecting Hellbound items/S80 mats. Sure, its going to take a long time, but so does leveling :D Fortunately, if you do more than simply "xp" and do quests and get items you *can* actually get the good armors; and all the while your xp is going upwards.
i wonder if people realize what would happen to the servers economy if all the bots were banned. People complain and complain, but if there were not bots, you would never get your s-grade, you would never get your a-grade even for most of you. If we wanted to have fixed this problem, it needed to have been done c3 or before. Its over, done, finished. Move along.
A grade impossible ?? Perhaps in C1...
S grade is possible, if there were no bots there would have been clan life, ppl working together, not AFK all day long, they would have helped each other because it was the only way to do things, and when REAL ppl with REAL brains work together nice things can happen. Of course, for a bot leveling in same place for months, it is impossible to get S grade parts and recipes, but a real player will get party and go all over aden to get all those parts and recipes. If you cant see a way to make your own S grade, then you probably botted too long.
Sure, prices would be much higher because ppl part harder from things they made themselves and worked so hard for, but you can always make your own instead of buying, will just take more time, possibly, unless you know how to play market while AFK in Giran, because if you do you can have S grade items while still being A grade.
M
i wonder if people realize what would happen to the servers economy if all the bots were banned. People complain and complain, but if there were not bots, you would never get your s-grade, you would never get your a-grade even for most of you. If we wanted to have fixed this problem, it needed to have been done c3 or before. Its over, done, finished. Move along.
yea we would (I did it and am helping others do it too) I'm here to try and help everyone get our servers back and return life into our old but great game!
If getting good gear from Bots was easy NC would not have ever added common drops, So please stop bringing BOTS are so great talk here unless you little automated turds put your adena were your programs are and bring BOT prices down, cuz us HONEST players already know that cheating and Lying go hand in hand!
ok here in Giran we got "Worker451" cute little Bot. she is selling +4 SoM (Acum) 178,989,98930 mil Hey that A grade
Bunny Ears! oooow now theres a sweet deal for players only 30 mil
oooow recipe for IC shield from "ONER" wow 60% recipe only 35 mil ... sweet there' a deal
Your arguement that "We need Bots for Gear" I think has just been shot down by your fellow cheaters!
If you cheat in a game that is meant to be played for fun than your morals and ethics fall short! you can be a HERO but if you cheat to get there and need a program and expect to get respected for your accomplishment, LOLZ while pointing the finger at you!
I said before and I'll keep saying BOTS=CANCER and it's never to late to stop a disease ... easier to cure if action had been taken sooner but we need to start sometime ... now is it!
yea we would (I did it and am helping others do it too) I'm here to try and help everyone get our servers back and return life into our old but great game!
If getting good gear from Bots was easy NC would not have ever added common drops, So please stop bringing BOTS are so great talk here unless you little automated turds put your adena were your programs are and bring BOT prices down, cuz us HONEST players already know that cheating and Lying go hand in hand!
ok here in Giran we got "Worker451" cute little Bot. she is selling +4 SoM (Acum) 178,989,98930 mil Hey that A grade
Bunny Ears! oooow now theres a sweet deal for players only 30 mil
oooow recipe for IC shield from "ONER" wow 60% recipe only 35 mil ... sweet there' a deal
Your arguement that "We need Bots for Gear" I think has just been shot down by your fellow cheaters!
If you cheat in a game that is meant to be played for fun than your morals and ethics fall short! you can be a HERO but if you cheat to get there and need a program and expect to get respected for your accomplishment, LOLZ while pointing the finger at you!
I said before and I'll keep saying BOTS=CANCER and it's never to late to stop a disease ... easier to cure if action had been taken sooner but we need to start sometime ... now is it!
I was going to write a post about the **** self righteous bots trying to justify their own existence...
The cheaters protested, we did not protest, unless you consider that asking for more action is a way of protesting in it's fundamentals (we want action because it hasn't been enough).
About the falacious argument that we cant get our gear without bots:
1. There is common stuff. Enough to level up to S grade.
2. hard/easy is irrelevant as long as it is so for everybody. I think there is a misunderstanding here, we want to ban cheaters to level the field, not because we are annoyed by their presence, even tho that is a factor too. If everybody is equal, then things are more or less OK. Cheaters have unfair advantages and they use them against legit ppl. It would be almost OK if bots would only contest for castles, kill each other, go TW etc, we would continue to come at these events to watch them mostly, but when they take the forts too, and PK you for the spot you had before they came, then the things get ugly.
3. Indeed mats will become more expensive, i mean basic mats. That is where chinese farmers shine, they gather a gazillion bones and delevel for them so we dont have to keep low level chars and lose a lot of time for that, in boring d grade places. But this is nothing close to a showstopper, if everybody is in the same situation would be a great income for newbies, they would afford better weapons and level fast+add up money for b grade for instance.
That is what markets do, autoadjust. Some trades suddenly become attractive, some will fade away.
It is always exciting to anticipate changes and figure a way on how to profit at max. You may be right or wrong, that is the thrill.
A static world is boring, bring a change, ban the bots !
M
Look, cry bot all you want. I'm simply saying what Is known. Ban all Chinese ip's? Most of the bot trains that I come across are not even Chinese. The majority of them are regular players. Please, I'm not advocating for 3rd party programs but get serious here. I kind of wish nc would ban all the bots. Then, when everything cost 7x as much as it does now, we can see how the player base is doing, ok.
I would have joined in on the protest, but my computer is broken. :p
I can go to forum from work, but not play the game. :(
But to bring beer into the picture i would not like you to do since the are minors playing the game. :)
*waves and passes BEER Hi Thumpy
BEER to minors? NEVER in RL, but this is just a game and I ask you what is a Dwarfy without BEER?
Spoil Craft & BEER
3 main staples in a Dwarfs life :D
Look, cry bot all you want. I'm simply saying what Is known. Ban all Chinese ip's? Most of the bot trains that I come across are not even Chinese. The majority of them are regular players. Please, I'm not advocating for 3rd party programs but get serious here. I kind of wish nc would ban all the bots. Then, when everything cost 7x as much as it does now, we can see how the player base is doing, ok.
Who will be able to buy anything if it's 7x of the prices today?? Ebayers?? How will they be able to buy adena if bots are banned???
Why can't you see that prices will only be as high as people are willing to pay... What will the sellers do if they can't sell their goods??
Not that I really care if prices goes up or down. I'll have no problems getting the mats and recs I need to craft S80. You guys clearly don't know how to play this game.. Always looking for a shortcut (ebay/bot), because you think you "need" to cheat to play this game.
Move on??? Why the hell should I move on in a game where the cheaters will totally dominate me in all ways?? When some cheaters comes and want my spot, should I fight back??? I'll sure as hell get killed. Should I just let them take my spot and start running for hours trying to find a botfree little spot where I can play??? NO!!!
I want all **** griefing/cheating/botting chars off this game. I wouldn't shed a tear if they where all gone tomorrow.
It's hilarious that you actually believe that the legits "need" you to play this game.
You can claim all you want that you don't cheat. But then stop posting these kind of post on this forum. Stop tryin to justify the need for cheaters, because they are clearly not "needed"...
The easiyest way to fix bot problem is to allow us to Augment the only equipment that cant be augmented and thats the armor.
Allow us to Augment all the armor parts and i will kill bots every single time i need a spot to hunt in, cuz i can rank in all the karma i want and i wont be afraid to drop my armor.
Fix that my friends at NCsoft and we will police this bot problem ourselves without worrying about loosing any of our equipment.
If we so choose after, we can still lvl up a sin eater and what not and work the red out when we had enuff bot killing in us... its simple really and wouldnt require much more DEV work since they already allow us to augment the main armor part....
Who will be able to buy anything if it's 7x of the prices today?? Ebayers?? How will they be able to buy adena if bots are banned???
Why can't you see that prices will only be as high as people are willing to pay... What will the sellers do if they can't sell their goods??
Not that I really care if prices goes up or down. I'll have no problems getting the mats and recs I need to craft S80. You guys clearly don't know how to play this game.. Always looking for a shortcut (ebay/bot), because you think you "need" to cheat to play this game.
If tomorrow they ban all the bots, and you have to work 5 times as hard to earn 1 adena as you did yesterday, then even if the prices are the same they will be 5 times as expensive compared to yesterday
bots have the largest supply of nearly everything, and players have the largest demand of nearly everything. What happens if you remove nearly all the supply, but don't do anything to demand?
Market would crash, it would be chaotic while everyone tries to find a new price level. People would either not sell anything or price things extremely high to make sure they don't lose on it.
If tomorrow they ban all the bots, and you have to work 5 times as hard to earn 1 adena as you did yesterday, then even if the prices are the same they will be 5 times as expensive compared to yesterday
bots have the largest supply of nearly everything, and players have the largest demand of nearly everything. What happens if you remove nearly all the supply, but don't do anything to demand?
Market would crash, it would be chaotic while everyone tries to find a new price level. People would either not sell anything or price things extremely high to make sure they don't lose on it.
and do you happen to know what's gonna be the response on that? They'll say: "we agree to work 5 and even 10 times harder, cause that's the game should be like! Let there be 10 ppl on the server, but we all gonna be 'legit' and make a 'fair play'" ....
lolen... got myself rolling even when I was wrighting this!
If tomorrow they ban all the bots, and you have to work 5 times as hard to earn 1 adena as you did yesterday, then even if the prices are the same they will be 5 times as expensive compared to yesterday
bots have the largest supply of nearly everything, and players have the largest demand of nearly everything. What happens if you remove nearly all the supply, but don't do anything to demand?
Market would crash, it would be chaotic while everyone tries to find a new price level. People would either not sell anything or price things extremely high to make sure they don't lose on it.
That's a price I'm willing to pay. IF we get a period with chaotic marked, and that's the price we have to pay to get rid of the bots, so be it... It's the best of two evils...
Let there be 10 ppl on the server, but we all gonna be 'legit' and make a 'fair play'" ....
lolen... got myself rolling even when I was wrighting this!
Fine with me. I don't care if they ban all the bots and the game dies in the process. It's clearly dying as it's run now. What's the point with a server with only scripts and no live players??? You see that as a better solution??
but I bet a lot of people who quit over the years would come back, happily, if they found out the BOTS that forced them to leave in the first place were gone! :p
but I bet a lot of people who quit over the years would come back, happily, if they found out the BOTS that forced them to leave in the first place were gone! :p
If tomorrow they ban all the bots, and you have to work 5 times as hard to earn 1 adena as you did yesterday, then even if the prices are the same they will be 5 times as expensive compared to yesterday
bots have the largest supply of nearly everything, and players have the largest demand of nearly everything. What happens if you remove nearly all the supply, but don't do anything to demand?
Market would crash, it would be chaotic while everyone tries to find a new price level. People would either not sell anything or price things extremely high to make sure they don't lose on it.
Well if it happened it would be awesome, cuz then we would know that we are dealing with another player on our clean servers and not BOTS. Then players set the new standard of pricing which would not be like it is now!
We would not be working this hard against BOTS if we wanted to be greedy with each other! Us real players take care of each other how do you think we have gottin' this far and been around for so long?
To get the items I need for crafting I contact my friends. (Real Players)
I need this or that mat, got any? and guess what my friends contact me!
You really have to be silly to think real players even bother buying from your BOT stores in town. Your market is BOT market! My market are my friends in game!
Uninstall your third party programs; learn to make friends and play the DAM game!
Believe me no one needs BOTS or 3rd party programs to do that and we would rather face real players than a field full of BOTS any day!
If tomorrow they ban all the bots, and you have to work 5 times as hard to earn 1 adena as you did yesterday, then even if the prices are the same they will be 5 times as expensive compared to yesterday
bots have the largest supply of nearly everything, and players have the largest demand of nearly everything. What happens if you remove nearly all the supply, but don't do anything to demand?
Market would crash, it would be chaotic while everyone tries to find a new price level. People would either not sell anything or price things extremely high to make sure they don't lose on it.
1. Market would not crash, because market is not an independent thing.
2. Market is there because there are always ppl willing to trade. It will not go away ever. because i can have level 72 fenrir which is not much use for me but i need arcana sigil in my view, so i sell wolf and get sigil, others like wolf more and have a grade weapon+7 willing to trade for wolf and they level a tank with the wolf. Market will continue to be there as long as ppl want to trade and they will always want to trade.
3. If things will be more expensive and ppl will not afford, then prices will go down. Exchanges like those at point 2 are still possible, the adena equivalent only will change.
4. Chaos... bring it on ! The smartest ppl will get rich, the braindead ones will just work more for same thing. This is life fox, it is the same in RL. Nobody will die in game because of hunger, except some pets, maybe.
No need for bots, not even for market, for nothing. We want our game ! Kick the cheaters !
M
If the bots were eliminated there would have to be an adjustment to the game.
For one thing normal mats would become more available since you could actually turn in crops. Bots control that market so they keep the mat prices high and a legit player has a 1 in a million chance of turning in.
Key item drops would have to be lowered to match the capability of live players and not machines.
These are just two examples of the many changes and NC West would have to work with us on.
I've always felt that changes to the game have been done to enhance the ability of the Farmers to maximize their profit.
Farmers have inturn adapted to make even more from the game. At first farmers were usually one guy spoiling/seeding...then it became two guys sometimes both live..then one live and 1-8 machines behind them....now all machines.
I don't think farmers will go away....i don't have a problem with them if they are live. They play the game like me and i could care less what they do with their Adena. If i run into a live 9 man train i have no problem with that. So to some extent there will always be the key mats and recipes that you need. The cost might be higher unless NC increaes the drop rate.
I could go on and on...
Summing up...If they could ban all bots it would eliminate the Companies and the one man NA/Euro Adena seller that plagues the game to the point of killing it. If they were to farm live there would not be enough money in it for them. That would leave live farmers from countries where cost per hour was considerably less than what we enjoy...and i think most players could live with that.