Remember posts saying that vanguard was not sooo good as intended, and most knights choose to go normal stance, good damage if you have good weapon and more defense, shield stun, pets, etc.
Now, does it changed ? I am playing SK, and new skill makes insane damage, plus the new self buff, amazing i think.
It's awesome, I duo room in Imperial Tomb with only EE with stigma (oop dances and cov ofc.). 12k crits with sword and 400 crit rate LOL.
PS : ofc I don't xp on vanguard (no Hex), just transofm to cast Boost Morale and transform back, repeat every 5 min.
It's awesome, I duo room in Imperial Tomb with only EE with stigma (oop dances and cov ofc.). 12k crits with sword and 400 crit rate LOL.
PS : ofc I don't xp on vanguard (no Hex), just transofm to cast Boost Morale and transform back, repeat every 5 min.
Thats not a duo.
Remember posts saying that vanguard was not sooo good as intended, and most knights choose to go normal stance, good damage if you have good weapon and more defense, shield stun, pets, etc.
Now, does it changed ? I am playing SK, and new skill makes insane damage, plus the new self buff, amazing i think.
Your experience and opinion ?
I've noticed that the Vanguard skills are criting more often
It's awesome, I duo room in Imperial Tomb with only EE with stigma (oop dances and cov ofc.). 12k crits with sword and 400 crit rate LOL.
PS : ofc I don't xp on vanguard (no Hex), just transofm to cast Boost Morale and transform back, repeat every 5 min.
You saying the same before patch then, vanguard stance is not necesary/worth. If you are SK, using cubics which weaken the enemy, and stigma from buffer... still need to hex mobs ? I want to clarify this: soloing is really faster now ?
the skills need to much mp to use them the hole fight and the boost morale should run perma on vanguard. 2 min with 5 min reuse is senseless.
Usin boost morale all time ? Maybe will be better than any damage dealer soloing, great for us, but not what i expected. Was soloing catas, using the new skill when mobs go down to 50%, and very often i kill then instantly, sometimes 6k+ damage. Honestly, did not try to go on normal stance + hex, dont wanna buy more gear, but i think i am doing really good. Can TK and Pally without wolf keep clean a big cata room ? I am, with some downtime even.
Would be nice drop the cooldown of the boost morale a little bit, and the mp usage from skills.
Boost morale is really nice.
I agree that the duration should be longer, but it is better than nothing.
My observation is about the skills. Maybe they are nice up to lvl 76, but after that since they can't be enchanted for element and don't have element already, their damage is not high enough. If these skills had element or even better could be enchanted for element, then they could prove really useful. MP is also important, so I agree that these skills should cost considerably less mp, so that you can use one skill on each mob.
I don't see how a SK can do 12K crits on any mob, even with dances, CoV, epics, boost morale, crit talisman, hex, judgement, stigma. With Tribunal (-20% melee res) I do up to 4K in SV , where mobs have significantly lower pdef than IT. So ss or it did not happen :)
I suppose it could max at about 8-9K in IT if you are talking about a lvl 84 SK, with vesper weapon or a masterwork icarus (+crit dmge), 300 holy, +5str tat, cat buff, full epics, cov, crit talisman, boost morale, hex, stigma.
It could be higher than 10K only with a 2handed blunt.
*sits down in a corner and pouts* tanks starts getting DD power.... wheres mine! im suposed to the a warrior! not a DEFENSIVE MEELE!
ofc u are right. but nc soft dont push our defensiv options.
in times where u get as fullbuffed tank in s grade with full ele 10k+ backstabs.....from s grade dagger......no words about overpowered ?
in other mmoprgs tanks dont make dmg yes, but dagger types wont hurt a plate tank with theire "knife" (except john rambo, who can fight against helicopter with just a knife).
dagger types always against light armor and robes. warrior and knights always take really less dmg from archer types. and mages are tankkiller, thats how it works.
in la2 only 1 is important. peak dmg and dps. so only way for give tanks some love is? push our dmg.
Can i solo RB in vanguard like destros do? If not its useless heheheh.
Well, galendal made a good point lack of element puts a break on vanguard as soon as you reach S grade, its still very good for A graders where massive elemental damage don´t exist.
All I can say is that it made huge difference in the Olympiad for me.
I even had some ppl pm'ing after the oly match asking me "... 'yo, did u get 300 on weapon?.."..
Now, my record is 8/1 in the oly (last saturday) and I do not have any ebayed epic jewelry. Just for the record, chickens can steal that buff >.< ... darn chickens....!!!
Only the buff. Once you transform back from Vanguard, you retain the boost morale buff and you can use it with your regular Forbidden Blade (in my case) and shield. {/wink /wink tip for oly}.
I easily reach 287 critical with only oly buffs and self buffs and I am using a FB sword.
NC could boost the defensive ability of tanks, which I suppose they should do, as it is already hard for any tank to get parties in HB, since destros and other classes do the job much better :(
In my opinion tanks need a serious boost in at least their pve defensive ability, something like 30-50% less pve damage passive, maybe along with a +10-20% heals received or 10% pve vr or both. And ofcourse make hate more powerfull or 100% chance on pve, so that the tank can better protect the party in difficult situations.
All in all I am happy tanks are getting attention in the past updates and surely the changes are welcome. Also I am happy that there are more new areas where tanks are useful (Giants Cave I hear is a difficult area). But still parties prefer to take another DD in party than a tank, so we have a long way, until tanks are able to fulfil their role in game. And although improvements in the solo xp part of the game are welcome, I think tanks need more improvements in their role in parties, especially now that the best xp in game is in areas designed for parties.
Its all about VR as we already discused... VR buffed into a titan/gk = huge ammount of hp returned per hit. So a toon that can do huge ammount of damage and heal itself at the same time will always be better then a tanker.
If vr get a fixed ammount on returned hp, maybe this can help tankers.
Its all about VR as we already discused... VR buffed into a titan/gk = huge ammount of hp returned per hit. So a toon that can do huge ammount of damage and heal itself at the same time will always be better then a tanker.
If vr get a fixed ammount on returned hp, maybe this can help tankers.
Give the mobs reflect dmg, you'll see those titans/gk's dead in no time, problem solved :D
Nukus interesting idea :) I don't think it could solve the problem of tanks not finding their role in parties, but it would be funny to watch....
Rohirim, you are wrong. The tank will get hit by mob and his reflect dmge will be low, due to the tank low dps, so the healer will have no big problem here. The other melee DDs that are nowdays tanking will take some damage from reflection, but nothing vr will not be able to heal. If they take aggro, they just stop hitting. Also keep in mind skill damage is not reflected, only regular damage. So actually the healer would not have any actual problem.
I repeat this is not the solution. A very nice boost for tanks are the lvl 83 skill that the SK and the paladin got. Now most parties will surely want one of them in party to get the incredible effects of that party buff. These buffs protect the party and make the tank more desirable than an extra DD.
But such skills should be given at a much earlier lvl and given to all tanks. Party ToL will surely be nice (if I ever get to be 83....), but people want buffs, that will increase their xp/hour. A good party heal is very nice for mass pvp, but rarely useful in pve, so I doubt it would get me a party.
make x2 x3 x4 mobs do x2 x3 x4 times dmg. boost tank pve defence (double shield pdef and ofc mdef)
develop meele attribute system.
Dagger/Bow -> pierce patk(- on heavy, + at light, + at robes)
Sword/Axe -> Slash patk(- on heavy, + at light, - at robes)
Hammer -> Crush patk(+ on heavy, - at light, - at robes)
so different types of armors have different pdef types (heavy -> ++ slash and pierce pdef)....and so on
x3 or x4 damage would be too much even for a tank with a passive for -50% pve damage.
But I think x2 damage (not in HB, mobs hit hard enough already.....) plus more aggro mobs in some areas, plus much higher xp from such mobs, could be a step in the right direction.
I understood this more clearly, while playing my destro sub. The sub is now 77 and my main 79. I went to varka with my sub and 2-3 shot all mobs. Destro took very little damage, so he did not even need vr, as mobs died before they could deal much damage if any. Then I switched back to the TK after a long time and forgot to give myself vr.... On the second mob I was with half hp..............! So right now the DD, even a dagger or GK in light armor receives less damage than a tank, since mobs die faster thus dealing less hits.
I could see some balance between classes, when the tank, although he needs more time to kill a mob, takes the same damage or preferably less damage than a DD who kills the same mob faster. That would mean that the tank receives 50-70%less pve damage than now.
Then I switched back to the TK after a long time and forgot to give myself vr.... On the second mob I was with half hp..............! So right now the DD, even a dagger or GK in light armor receives less damage than a tank, since mobs die faster thus dealing less hits.
Try doing that on a dwarf and you will have the same effect as you have on your tank (thanks to the 10k+ HP a dwarf has with BTB6...depending on setup).
And with the new vanguard stance you can easly out damage a dwarf.
In my opinion. Vanguard should boost the pdef, not the dps as it does now)
Don't get me wrong, dorfs have my outmost sympathy and I was among the people making suggestions for improvements to both dorf classes.
Vanguard was implemented to help tanks lvl faster. It is a sad fact that most people lvl solo at least to 78-79, especially high dps classes, prefer to solo and don't party at all or very little. So tanks needed something to make the grinding/lvling faster, thus we got vanguard, which is now nice, although it can work even better if as I suggested earlier the offensive skills get elemental, so that they do decent damage at S gr+.
On the other hand, especially after lvl 78 tanks need more pve defence to be able to deal with hard areas in the game like HB and try to take a DDs place in parties. Apart from the fact that it is boring to solo 79-80 on a tank, the best xp by far lies in HB. All the tank can offer now in comparison to a DD is better crowd control and party UD in difficult situations. The DD offers triple dps and needs less or equal healing.....
Nukus interesting idea :) I don't think it could solve the problem of tanks not finding their role in parties, but it would be funny to watch....
Rohirim, you are wrong. The tank will get hit by mob and his reflect dmge will be low, due to the tank low dps, so the healer will have no big problem here. The other melee DDs that are nowdays tanking will take some damage from reflection, but nothing vr will not be able to heal. If they take aggro, they just stop hitting. Also keep in mind skill damage is not reflected, only regular damage. So actually the healer would not have any actual problem.
hehe, i was being sarcastic ;)
all melee that hit the mob, regardless if there's a tank or not to tank the mob, they will all have their dmg reflected.
But trust me Gal, you won't like to fight mobs that have reflect dmg on them if you're a extreme DD ;)
(example; while i still was Bison-rifting on my Tyrant-sub there are some mobs with reflect dmg, you don't want to hit them with bison on ;))