For my own part, I've been mostly satisfied with the improved way that the L2 NA staff have been handling bad players. Their newly found vigilance has yielded some promising results and I think they should be commended for their actions.
But....
I really think that it's time to take a look on how to break the habit of inappropriate play moreso than just trying to police it. To that end, I think it's necessary to ruin the RL profitability of the game...at least here in the NA market.
Some things to consider...
1. Allowing the Black Marketeer of Mammon to give AA in exchange for Adena at 3:1 ratio
2. Setting up a temporary NPC in town similar to the Cats on the PTS that sells all basic materials (excluding armor and weapons) at 2X's the base cost every other week after maintenance.
3. Setting up a temporary NPC that will level up soul crystals for a fee.
This would be a small start, but a decent one. I know that people don't want to see the game get WoW easy (believe me, I don't either), but in order to rebalance the game and force certain players to look for greener pastures in which to exact real money for game play, it's necessary to put some temporary price controls in the game.
and who needs raid bosses anyway. srsly. theyre so hard to do.
wamwam, i respect you as a player, and as a poster however this is either some epic trolling or you really don't value the efforts of a co-ordinated team.
can you explain why you want to take away any use for the catacombs? they are already horrible exp; removing the cause to manor, or profitability of seal stones would make it EPICALLY easy to make S grade. do you somehow think this will cause the price of S gear to deflate, suddenly?
and before you answer, yes, i know how frustrating it is to see my smiling face once again demeaning your ideas.
and who needs raid bosses anyway. srsly. theyre so hard to do.
wamwam, i respect you as a player, and as a poster however this is either some epic trolling or you really don't value the efforts of a co-ordinated team.
can you explain why you want to take away any use for the catacombs? they are already horrible exp; removing the cause to manor, or profitability of seal stones would make it EPICALLY easy to make S grade. do you somehow think this will cause the price of S gear to deflate, suddenly?
and before you answer, yes, i know how frustrating it is to see my smiling face once again demeaning your ideas.
I appreciate the kind words....
The post is about breaking real life profitability. And I feel the solution is sound. When you allow bad behaviors to become so entrenched, you need an extreme solution to deal with it.
And before you think that the Lands of Aden would turn into a radioactive plasma ball if they did the three things I suggested:
1. You can still use the catacombs and you could still sell AA at 2:1.
2. Dwarves will still craft weapons and shots and scavengers will still be able to get weapon parts and the like.
3. Castles will still have value because your clan will still be able to farm the castle for KE's and use the manor system to get enchants and codex.
4. People will still farm epic bosses for the boss jewels and armor drops.
Really, all that's being done is that you're forcing the cheaters further into the corner and cutting their access to supplemental revenue streams. And when their next money making plans start (because these people won't let go of their cash easily) you just adjust until they are forced out.
So no....not trolling. Just planing the next offensive. Hopefully you guys have some other ideas to add.
And I'm not frustrated just because you disagree with me. Heck...it wouldn't be an L2 forum without naysayyers constantly trying to maintain the status quo.
well, see thats the thing, WamWam. in most cases you just arent making profit selling AA 2:1. the days when 2:1 was an acceptable ratio were the days when other forms of adena were easily accessable such as earning drops, and the crafting of low level gear (which used to be a lot easier for A grade). it used to be easy and fast to make say a DC set for fast money at a profit scale of sometimes 50:1 if you did your own farming and had no failures.
nowadays L2 is far more heavily dependent on AA, given new tiers of S grade requiring both more Gems and more recipes found in locations far away from Catacombs; remember theres no catacomb available for levels 80+ so all that MILLIONS of AA farming needs to be done as a clan, on alts or subs. 1 low tier S weapon costs 43 gems S, thats 4.3m Ancient Adena. thats a week of farming - on a sub you hate that can also be grounds to hate the game.
i dont know what planet you live on, but i assume it isnt earth - cause when you can BUY materials from an NPC, you eliminate the need for manor, or spoil. Manor is what makes most castles worth taking; manor in catacombs yields upwards of 5x rewards per seed. s weapon part spoiling is one of the WORST tortures you can inflict on someone. most spoils are 1:100 or worse.
the only reason to do most bosses is for the 80+ skills, and even then some clans have Warehouses full of this stuff.
the only people you'd be forcing into a corner are NOT cheaters. cheaters, remember, already have all this gear. already have the billions of adena to dispose when the need arises. and Vesper (s84) still comes as full drop only, from Gracia bosses. these are farmed and camped by those same "cheaters" youre trying to hamper.
bottom line here is these suggestions hurt legit folk who can only play 2 hrs a day. at most. on weekends. when the kids are away.
remember L2 has been out for close to 6 years. those at the end are not looking to craft gear anymore - theyve already got that. the only cheating that goes on now is pvp programs. this is 99% of the playerbase, much like wow, all at end game.
those who are behind these lines were not the players that Gracia was designed for. L2 suffers no low level; i'd be willing to bet that within 2 updates, we will be given Mammon upgrades from B to A, A in Luxury shop, or common S gear.
your solution would have been a good one, were it made and implemented about 5 years ago.
I would say that 50% of the player base is making rl money off this game....force them out and NC will lose 50% of their income...never happen.
BTW when i say 50% of the players base what i mean is that 50% of the toons are run by people making rl money. Lots of Adena sellers play many toons and they quickly add up.
Ever wonder why you see all those toons just standing around doing nothing?
Why not just go to the manor system and check logs of all players trying to trade crops....then ban the cheaters and any accounts associated with them. that certainly would eliminate a big portion of cheaters..... if NC wanted to.
As far as WWW suggestions....sure it won't affect me in the least
its per month and didn't u read my post it said excluding sale shops..
and its average so u can use ur account 16 hours 1 day and 4 and then 4 and ur fine. just if ur countinually out in the field xping.. is when the prices start to rise
If the voice in the back of you head told you to share this plan, tell it to shut up. If you want these things play a private server. Retail is fine the way it is. It is the original.
I agree however that at least they're taking initiative to get rid of a lot of the bots/farmers. However I will say that this I don't believe would solve the problem. There are certain _______ s*rv*rs out there have bots completely blocked. Its not that hard to do if they really wanted to do it.
There are certain _______ s*rv*rs out there have bots completely blocked. Its not that hard to do if they really wanted to do it.Don't think it's so easy. There is no real life money to be made in a private server (outside of owning one), so there is no incentive for someone to spend time making a bot for a private server. Where as if someone makes a bot for retail servers, they can sell it to farmers or use it to farm for themselves.
For ANYTHING in lineage that is possible to get for adena, this 'anything' is dead already. I mean you can't make any service in this for money. Look at skill enchants now. this service is dead already. Before the update there were few ppl with +10 enchants, now there are 90% of ppl with +30 skills. Because some guys have 20-50bil adena and they can rule the world if you make such things as:
lvling crystals and changing AA for adena.
as spudnik once said show me a legit noblesse thats works for real money amnd i show u the exacr number of Pi ;)
I can show you legit twinks close to lvl 83/noble with 2 more nobless on the same account.
Just because some ppl dont manage to everyone have to be a bot or buy adena ~
I can show you legit twinks close to lvl 83/noble with 2 more nobless on the same account.
Just because some ppl dont manage to everyone have to be a bot or buy adena ~
I know quite a few legit 83+ nobles of all classes... including crappy classes that most of you whine about (SE, Dwarf, tanks, etc).
I can show you legit twinks close to lvl 83/noble with 2 more nobless on the same account.
Just because some ppl dont manage to everyone have to be a bot or buy adena ~
those players have 9 to 5 jobs?
if not, the statement is still valid.
show me a legit noblesse that works for real money ...
For my own part, I've been mostly satisfied with the improved way that the L2 NA staff have been handling bad players. Their newly found vigilance has yielded some promising results and I think they should be commended for their actions.
But....
I really think that it's time to take a look on how to break the habit of inappropriate play moreso than just trying to police it. To that end, I think it's necessary to ruin the RL profitability of the game...at least here in the NA market.
Some things to consider...
1. Allowing the Black Marketeer of Mammon to give AA in exchange for Adena at 3:1 ratio
2. Setting up a temporary NPC in town similar to the Cats on the PTS that sells all basic materials (excluding armor and weapons) at 2X's the base cost every other week after maintenance.
3. Setting up a temporary NPC that will level up soul crystals for a fee.
This would be a small start, but a decent one. I know that people don't want to see the game get WoW easy (believe me, I don't either), but in order to rebalance the game and force certain players to look for greener pastures in which to exact real money for game play, it's necessary to put some temporary price controls in the game.
You're out of your skull with this nonsense. LII doesn't give handouts, you work for a living in this land we call Aden.
LII does not need to change imo, if any change would happen, it would be more active players, that is about it.
Edit: Oh and has anyone played Aion? There are 'cheaters' there too just like the game we play folks, nothing is going to change..
how long have you been noble? and how long have you been playing?
the original statement was made in like C4 or C5. a looooong looooong time ago. i'll comb the archive again .....
however you qualify as the acute minority of the exception to the statement.
been playin since c3 and i've been for almost a year now (before you could do it thru TW, had to lvl the sub all the way up to 75 and do the quests for it)...
been studing (at phd level) or working as an assitant lecturer at a local university for about as long as i've been playing too (actually, a bit longer... since 05)
so yea.. we're a minority (i know a few of them, 2 more in my clan), but we're out there..
how long have you been noble? and how long have you been playing?
the original statement was made in like C4 or C5. a looooong looooong time ago. i'll comb the archive again .....
however you qualify as the acute minority of the exception to the statement.
My levels are up to date in my sig.
I have been playing since C4, I have 1 account. I had to do the quests the old-school way starting in Interlude and finishing in CT1. I had to pay adena to the dominant clan for the ability to stab Baium undisturbed, which killed my gear grind to the point of ridiculousness (my 76 Cardinal was in BW robes, replaced with current DC robes at around 78).
The current brick wall I am ramming my head against is level 80 on spoiler, which I get like 0.45% a day when my clan is in PvE mode and -2.0% a day when not. I expect to be 80 sometime in February.
I have had the help of clanmates that understand that spoilers are quite valuable, not to mention the Cardinal subclass which is a rare bird, at least live and pre-inquisitor.
as spudnik once said show me a legit noblesse thats works for real money amnd i show u the exacr number of Pi ;)
eh?
so you are saying that if a player is noblesse and works (i guess you mean "has a job in RL") they aren't legit?
I am almost noblesse on my main after 4 yrs (almost always played in that time, odd holidays out etc etc), i have many characters so it's not all been grinding that one toon.
but does that make me non-legit.. i think that phrase needs a re-work.
you had better get that value of PI ready.
i waited the whole day for the spawn 5min before he spawned dan noble ported to 13 killed all the neutrals waiting laughed his a s s of and logged out
shar isnt noble yet i got a subclass the old way but thats all my zerker is noble with TW(lol) engame ally u farm 50-60 badges every tw war so its not a biggie anymore
well, see thats the thing, WamWam. in most cases you just arent making profit selling AA 2:1. the days when 2:1 was an acceptable ratio were the days when other forms of adena were easily accessable such as earning drops, and the crafting of low level gear (which used to be a lot easier for A grade). it used to be easy and fast to make say a DC set for fast money at a profit scale of sometimes 50:1 if you did your own farming and had no failures.
nowadays L2 is far more heavily dependent on AA, given new tiers of S grade requiring both more Gems and more recipes found in locations far away from Catacombs; remember theres no catacomb available for levels 80+ so all that MILLIONS of AA farming needs to be done as a clan, on alts or subs. 1 low tier S weapon costs 43 gems S, thats 4.3m Ancient Adena. thats a week of farming - on a sub you hate that can also be grounds to hate the game.
i dont know what planet you live on, but i assume it isnt earth - cause when you can BUY materials from an NPC, you eliminate the need for manor, or spoil. Manor is what makes most castles worth taking; manor in catacombs yields upwards of 5x rewards per seed. s weapon part spoiling is one of the WORST tortures you can inflict on someone. most spoils are 1:100 or worse.
the only reason to do most bosses is for the 80+ skills, and even then some clans have Warehouses full of this stuff.
the only people you'd be forcing into a corner are NOT cheaters. cheaters, remember, already have all this gear. already have the billions of adena to dispose when the need arises. and Vesper (s84) still comes as full drop only, from Gracia bosses. these are farmed and camped by those same "cheaters" youre trying to hamper.
bottom line here is these suggestions hurt legit folk who can only play 2 hrs a day. at most. on weekends. when the kids are away.
remember L2 has been out for close to 6 years. those at the end are not looking to craft gear anymore - theyve already got that. the only cheating that goes on now is pvp programs. this is 99% of the playerbase, much like wow, all at end game.
those who are behind these lines were not the players that Gracia was designed for. L2 suffers no low level; i'd be willing to bet that within 2 updates, we will be given Mammon upgrades from B to A, A in Luxury shop, or common S gear.
your solution would have been a good one, were it made and implemented about 5 years ago.
Sorry for the delayed response. They've been actually making me work at my job for a change :p. But enough about me...let's get into it:
Let's stuff the profit talk. Adena in this game is simply a means to an end and not an end in itself. With that said, you only need as much as you need. The only legit reasons for gathering adena in this game are for crafting, leveling, purchasing hunting items and clan related items, warehousing, and porting. It is not necessary to make profit in this game to level, nor are there any prizes given out for amassing in game wealth. People with excess wealth sell it off on adena sites for real life cash. That's where the true value of making profit in this game comes from and that's exactly what I'm against. The quest for the RL wealth is what forces prices up in this game and mitigates the need to acquire more and more adena to the game's hurt.
Now, I exactly know what it means when you can buy items from NPC's. Yes, you will not have to spoil basic mats anymore and you will not have to use the manor system. I appreciate you reiterating out the obvious, but that was exactly the point of the suggestion. Many of the clans that gather all the castles on the map do so in order to control the amount of adena so that they can continue to sell it for RL money. If you think that people are sitting on billions of adena and just letting it grow stagnant in their warehouses when people will pay good money for it, you're either the most naive person on the board, or you're intentionally trying to divert attention away from the issue.
And how would this be forcing non-cheaters into a corner? If a person that plays as a legitly is able to temporarily get mats to craft with cheaper and they're able to unseal their S and S80 easier, and if they're able to add SA's to their weapons without feeding the RMT market how is that hurting them? You will still be able to hunt bosses as clans, you will still be able to attempt to get Vesper gear, and you'll still be able to compete in game. Adena hoarding does not make you competitive in this game
And despite all the "terrible idea" speak....it's meant as only a temporary change. I don't think that adena sellers have so much cash falling out of their pockets in RL that they're able to wait out a non-profitable venture on what they consider to be dead servers.
then by your logic - removing the requirement to manor for weeks, and hunt AA for a month, youve successfully made owning a castle of little use/gain/profit. already low level castles like Gludio sometimes go uncontested; theres no money to be made.
if it werent for the fact that crafts and enchanting can fail, you'd be right - people milk money to sell for RL cash; however thats not true in many cases.
a +16 S weapon (fully elemented) is worth what? a OE'd Vesper weapon is worth what?
the ultimate goal for most players is to get to the top of the dogpile. to be the one everyone backs away from. the player with the most dangerous character; why then do you never see +16 S weapons for sale? cause those who want them MAKE them. and when theyre done with the game, all that liquid cash can be used to re-imburse you for your time spent.
thats about the extent of the RL cash flow in L2.
people sell adena and people buy adena because of needs that have been fulfilled, and needs have re-arisen.
one player is selling the adena to pay for his game after its cancelled, the other is looking to fund a blown up +15 weapon.
who benefits from the mat shops in both circumstances? the player with the most liquid cash.
who are the players with the most liquid cash? people already at the end game - NOT low levels seeking new S grade.
so no, even this system would make the rich RICHER. because as you adequately pointed out, it is only temporary. once the player with 99 billion has spent 99 billion buying [lets say iron, or Ori ore from the store] the price can freely re-rise to inflated levels after a period of time once the NPC is gone.
even if he managed to sell those ion or Ori for 1 adena more than the purchase price, thats a HUGE profit (cause youre multiplying by 99 billion).
is a player at level (say level 40) going to have comparable cash, enough to go buy mats for an S craft, or enough mats to turn 1m into 3m (laughable cash for any S grader)?
no. the answer is no.
RL wealth is not obtained in the sales of cheap junk, friend. its from the sales of rare unique items such as epic jewels and vesper armor sets (there might be 3 known players in full vesper on all 9 servers combined - 2 of which are for sale) or +16 S weapons.
agreed that people who follow the rules would use this as a venture to get a cheap craft completed for new tier gear - but it isnt always the case that mats will be used for crafting. manor is used by crafters and mat re-sellers alike; if youve already got all your S gear, then botting the manor for another 200 DMP is free and clear cash.
i'd be willing to bet that any store that starts selling Stems will see 50 bots flock to it, buying stems for resale once the vendor is gone.
you'd also see 50 players flock to it, trying to get Drac bows crafted. there we have it, another system that bots profit from more than players.
it was a good try, though. youre on the right track.