Melee vs Mages at 82 lvl - is it really fair?

General Discussion Started Last reply 61 posts
At lvl 82 everyone can get 3 passive skill - ALL of them increase M. Def, as result toons lvl 82 are v. hard to be killed by any mage. Why NC Soft nerfed mages so much? Why all 3 skills increase M. Def?
why do mages crit so high and cast so fast and run so quick?
lol worthy for sure

epic troll imo
nc soft want to make daggers top class, so move out of ncsoft way or be nerfed..and there u are..u got nerfed ..:p

//use search instead of making new topics of same problem
why do mages crit so high and cast so fast and run so quick?

A fast running mage? Have you ever played a mage?
At lvl 82 everyone can get 3 passive skill - ALL of them increase M. Def, as result toons lvl 82 are v. hard to be killed by any mage. Why NC Soft nerfed mages so much? Why all 3 skills increase M. Def?

And i'm going to throw this answer out there. I may be wrong but it's from my observation.
A: Enlightenment
nc soft want to make daggers top class, so move out of ncsoft way or be nerfed..and there u are..u got nerfed ..:p

//use search instead of making new topics of same problem

Daggers aren't top class. A skilled nuker, tank, soulbreaker can kill daggers.
Mages crits are 2 times greater than any classes in same level same gear...

mages can kill any class with 2-3 crits..

daggers even with 2-3 backstab crits cant kill heavy armored classes..

Mages are overpowered..
Yes i think its unfair, unfair for MELLEES even with what u saying...

Seems those protections that can trigger randomly(not much of a chance to have them all up at once) appear to overcome a full buffed StS with nearly 40k m attack full buffed which was shown in a ss some time ago in these forums...

...right.:rolleyes:
Yes i think its unfair, unfair for MELLEES even with what u saying...

Seems those protections that can trigger randomly(not much of a chance to have them all up at once) appear to overcome a full buffed StS with nearly 40k m attack full buffed which was shown in a ss some time ago in these forums...

...right.:rolleyes:

Is 40k magic attack an exaggeration?
Is 40k magic attack an exaggeration?

Not at all. I think others who managed to saw the ss can confirm me :cool:
40k matk isnt as important as +++nukes
mages shouldnt whine so much they been top killers in pvp for the longest time....remember the sleep-nuke combo? then still u have vortex and slug and a bubble that can kill lots of ppl in mass pvp....

Whats up DM?!?
At lvl 82 everyone can get 3 passive skill - ALL of them increase M. Def, as result toons lvl 82 are v. hard to be killed by any mage. Why NC Soft nerfed mages so much? Why all 3 skills increase M. Def?

There is no such word in the NC Soft train of thought that has the meaning of "fairness" ... RTFM or is used in place of the word "fairness"
Not at all. I think others who managed to saw the ss can confirm me :cool:

A nuker with 40000 matk does only 2.8 times the damage of a nuker with 5000 matk, since the damage is calculated using sqrt(matk). A Titan with 40000 patk on the other hand DOES 8 times the damage of somebody with 5000 patk, and there are so many more buffs increasing patk, physical crit damage and debuffs decreasing pdef. That's why Titans do 600k crits on raid bosses, and nukers don't.
A fast running mage? Have you ever played a mage?

sps = fast
40k matack pics are just pics no one in game can run to pvp with all that buff simply cause he cant find all the classes to buff him atm he needs to pvp!(plus judicator's matack buff time is like 10'')


when these runes open on me i see a text saying p.def.mdef greatly increased


so why only mdef increases???? they need to fix it and have pdef increase too:)


enlightment is an uber selfbuff but lasts as long to kill 1 target (who will kite if hes smart)when you fight on mass pvp/oly pdef is also required no excuse for nukers'mcritcals every melee with oe weapon+epics can hit hard.

hmmm idea...what about if we had 3 different enlightmets we could use like tanks have 3 uds??
sps = fast

Fast compaired to what class? Other mages?
40k matack pics are just pics no one in game can run to pvp with all that buff simply cause he cant find all the classes to buff him atm he needs to pvp!(plus judicator's matack buff time is like 10'')


when these runes open on me i see a text saying p.def.mdef greatly increased


so why only mdef increases???? they need to fix it and have pdef increase too:)


enlightment is an uber selfbuff but lasts as long to kill 1 target (who will kite if hes smart)when you fight on mass pvp/oly pdef is also required no excuse for nukers'mcritcals every melee with oe weapon+epics can hit hard.

hmmm idea...what about if we had 3 different enlightmets we could use like tanks have 3 uds??

Enlightenment lasts long enough to kill 3-4 depending on the targets.
fast enough to kite anyone w/ a +0 prophecy on them or high damage melee classes, excluding tyrants.
I play a sps and during territory wars I have full buffs (pow, dances, prophet, se) with a +5 arcana mace (150 water) and do a whapping 400-450 per hit on every class (1200 on crit). Myself and all the other S80 robe users get 1-shotted by daggers hide-backstab combo. Giving everyone the option to get 360 defense for every element pretty much takes nukers out of game. I'm rerolling as a dagger.
the problem is elements . They should of never been added 2 the game.
look elements r uber especialy for mage

mages r uber imo until the opoment get the 82 books

mages r benefit more than rogue,warrior and knigth classes

cause their nukes r **** strong XD and a good combo can do masive dmg

i believe ncsoft wants to make random the dmg of figths thats y i think they put elemnts on weapons and armors.

cause variety of weapon elements and armor elements are plenty (thats y i think they want to make random the amount of damage a player can do)


but "randomality" i dont think it works xD in pvp



as for pve element its on of the best update that ncsoft done since interlude
as for pve element its on of the best update that ncsoft done since interlude


Then Add elements to A grade also. farming stones is easy but getting S grade cost a lot or in my case is dam Ugly.
the little amount of m.def added by those 3 skills is very low. But nuker's dmg. from those 2 uber skills they have at 81+ is just insane. No m.def in the world can save you from this
5 pieces of armor

Head - 120 wind defense
120 dark defense
120 fire defense

Chest - 120 wind defense
120 dark defense
120 fire defense

legs - 120 wind defense
120 dark defense
120 water defense

Gloves - 120 holy defense
120 earth defense
120 water defense

boots - 120 holy defense
120 earth defense
120 water defense

Total Elemental Defense

Dark = 360 defense
Wind = 360 defense
fire = 240 defense
Water = 360 defense
Earth = 240 defense
Holy = 240 defense

No nuker has earth attacks except for sps which has 1 aoe earth attack that has a 20min cooldown (may have been 10 mins, tested on private test server) and cannot move while casting the meteors.

No nuker has any holy attacks. EE's and SE's have holy attacks but it was nerfed in pvp damage.

Max attack of a weapon = 300 element.

This defense not only takes away all the element of a nukers weapon, but a nukers skill. This means that all nukes will fail.... GG

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo275/IIINightmareIII/Shot00264.jpg

In this pic the hero is red because she 1-shotted me with 1 tripple sonic slash (from a gladiator). This fight lasted all the way from the alligator island port in to the field of silence. I logged off because I ran out of mp.

P.S. nukers only seem like we run faster because we slow you.
Casting cancel is tricky.

I like how sps are so weak in matk compared to SH.

So much for the fotm nuker huh.
Casting cancel is tricky.

I like how sps are so weak in matk compared to SH.

So much for the fotm nuker huh.

Tell that to the people complaining nukers hit too hard.
Where are they?
Where are they?

Mages crits are 2 times greater than any classes in same level same gear...

mages can kill any class with 2-3 crits..

daggers even with 2-3 backstab crits cant kill heavy armored classes..

Mages are overpowered..

I'm sure theres more.
JayZa needs to equip S grade with elements then.
SPS still nuke hard...
http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo275/IIINightmareIII/Shot00264.jpg

In this pic the hero is red because she 1-shotted me with 1 tripple sonic slash (from a gladiator). This fight lasted all the way from the alligator island port in to the field of silence. I logged off because I ran out of mp.

P.S. nukers only seem like we run faster because we slow you.

in this screen you are only lvl 77 u dont even have crusher...heck not even element resists with ur DC xD what did u rly expect from a glady...

besides have u ever been in a stacked nuke group with mages dances/songs and anti-critical dmg buff?

in game there are so many anti critical buffs(especially against archers)
that shouldnt nukers been 1-shotted anyway,and trust me, they dont.
in this screen you are only lvl 77 u dont even have crusher...heck not even element resists with ur DC xD what did u rly expect from a glady...

besides have u ever been in a stacked nuke group with mages dances/songs and anti-critical dmg buff?

in game there are so many anti critical buffs(especially against archers)
that shouldnt nukers been 1-shotted anyway,and trust me, they dont.

I play a sps and during territory wars I have full buffs (pow, dances, prophet, se) with a +5 arcana mace (150 water) and do a whapping 400-450 per hit on every class (1200 on crit). Myself and all the other S80 robe users get 1-shotted by daggers hide-backstab combo. Giving everyone the option to get 360 defense for every element pretty much takes nukers out of game. I'm rerolling as a dagger.

I figured you missed it
Still, doesnt explain why u do so lil dmg, except maybe if the enemies u fight have over 60 element on their armors...
with full s80 set with full resists to for example wind a sts hits for 500 per nuke max
with full s80 set with full resists to for example wind a dagger with 300 wind on weapon will 1 - 2 shot robe

that are just examples without d/s on or cov/pow, just CH buffs
if you know the power of full buff you can add more resists for element to the dagger then to the nuker, crit resists buffs or not, party UDs/bublle from tank or not, robe is still going down from dagger, archer, titan, KG coz as posted here before, theyr +++patk work different then mages +++matk

so please stop QQ about nukers that hit too hard, it looks like you didnt play a robe, didnt pvp with 82+ daggers and dont have elements in armors on 60+/70+ pvp is totally different from pvp on 80+
Mages crits are 2 times greater than any classes in same level same gear...

mages can kill any class with 2-3 crits..

daggers even with 2-3 backstab crits cant kill heavy armored classes..

Mages are overpowered..

Have u ever played with mage? Or r u talking about 84 lvl mages vs 70 lvl class?
If both toons are on the same lvl, with the same gear, on buffs no way to kill with 2-3 critics: tanks, warsmith, tyrant.
And when u can get like 2-3 critics in a row?
Still, doesnt explain why u do so lil dmg, except maybe if the enemies u fight have over 60 element on their armors...

Nukers damage was nerfed in pvp a few chronicles ago when they took away the static damage. I noticed a big difference. And this was before you could put element on armor. By the way, yes maybe the people did have 60 element on their armors. Now they can get 360. How much you think I will do then???
u dont know the korean mmo game philosophy


early game mages>all so at early lvls mages pawn all

mid game heavy type (warriors)>all

end game ligth classes>all
oh yea I forgot these is l2 forum not dota forum xD
on aria, mage team is still able to kill 3-4 party of archer/melee team without problem + auto pots/auto assist program and u'll get it.
welcome in lineage 2.
And you guys think it's fair enough to 2 shot people? with only pp/se/powater buffs?
GOSH! Who has so much HP?>????

my titan with +4con and cov/vita ?
but missing some CPs on that screenshot, so it's not my titan :x
my titan with +4con and cov/vita ?
but missing some CPs on that screenshot, so it's not my titan :x

What are you wearing exactly? And how much con do you have?
the problem is elements . They should of never been added 2 the game.

Agreed , or element defense and attack should only count for PvE and not a PvP modifier , which is what it was supposedly put in the game for to begin with.
the little amount of m.def added by those 3 skills is very low. But nuker's dmg. from those 2 uber skills they have at 81+ is just insane. No m.def in the world can save you from this

Nop, these books raise your attribute resist +15%mdef+almost double your mdef when trigged,like a mdef ud.
I believe its fair to give exact pdef too.

And....since 360 attribute, nukers do have to hit with 2 weapons=double skill,so they can bypass the attributes.On that stage a pvp among an s grader and a 81+ double weapon toon will really show the difference.
nukers r so whiney when they have been overpowered for the longest time. "OMG IM NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO 2 SHOT PEOPLE ANYMORE!!!!!"
Have u ever played with mage? Or r u talking about 84 lvl mages vs 70 lvl class?
If both toons are on the same lvl, with the same gear, on buffs no way to kill with 2-3 critics: tanks, warsmith, tyrant.
And when u can get like 2-3 critics in a row?



Yeah I have seen in russian official server CADMUS how StormScreamer made 1 shot with 40k crits to phoenix knight with icarus hall +7.. phoenix knight was wearing dynasty heavy set full resist elements and he was lvl 83... dont you think its insane?

Titans dont even say that you are weak..

I dont know which server it is.. But I got this picture from one russian site and there was written its from Euro official Franz.. Titan lvl 84 hero hits Tiat with 1kkk+ ... dont you think its insane??

prove : tiat 1kkk+ hit (http://danieldefo.ru/files/uploads/shot00051jp.jpg)
Yeah I have seen in russian official server CADMUS how StormScreamer made 1 shot with 40k crits to phoenix knight with icarus hall +7.. phoenix knight was wearing dynasty heavy set full resist elements and he was lvl 83... dont you think its insane?

Titans dont even say that you are weak..

I dont know which server it is.. But I got this picture from one russian site and there was written its from Euro official Franz.. Titan lvl 84 hero hits Tiat with 1kkk+ ... dont you think its insane??

prove : tiat 1kkk+ hit (http://danieldefo.ru/files/uploads/shot00051jp.jpg)Who is Tiat? Level 1 elf? Lol.
this crit dmg stacking is fishy to the next lvl just a glitch

all this zealot hex soultaker debuff stigma judicator debuffs should be revamped

no class in this game should do 1m dmg to a 80+ raid
this crit dmg stacking is fishy to the next lvl just a glitch

all this zealot hex soultaker debuff stigma judicator debuffs should be revamped

no class in this game should do 1m dmg to a 80+ raid

in the near future if I see people soloing epic bosses I will not excited... If anyone interests you can dowload hero Titan's movie from russian official server CADMUS.. he just only makes 1 normal hit to everyone in oly... not skill hit just 1 normal hit.. isnt it insane? video link (http://files.mail.ru/HFN5WB)
I dont know what nukers cry about , in endgame a fully buffed nuker still 4-5 shot a fully buffed melee DD , ( from 900 range ) then ofc if the melee gets close should 2-3 hit the nuker , dont u think?
oh and big lol to the "just kite if the nuker put enlightment" idea .. if that happens just once to a nuker then he wait with enlightment until the attacker is in like 400 range so if u start to kite at that u still get 3-4 shots in ur back until ur out of range, good luck surviving that
Yeah I have seen in russian official server CADMUS how StormScreamer made 1 shot with 40k crits to phoenix knight with icarus hall +7.. phoenix knight was wearing dynasty heavy set full resist elements and he was lvl 83... dont you think its insane?

Titans dont even say that you are weak..

I dont know which server it is.. But I got this picture from one russian site and there was written its from Euro official Franz.. Titan lvl 84 hero hits Tiat with 1kkk+ ... dont you think its insane??

prove : tiat 1kkk+ hit (http://danieldefo.ru/files/uploads/shot00051jp.jpg)


a) Magic Damage doesnt factor your armor. the character in question could be wearing NO armor, and still take the same damage; remember you can't immediately see what Jewels people wear, and it has long been known that epic jewels trade Mdef for bonuses in other areas - i.e. a set of s80 jewelery will resist more than a player in assorted frint/aq/baium/zaken/antharas....

b) back when Tiat and Gracia was first around, we saw Anthon (from Bartz NA server) crit tiat using simple non OEd S blunt for 225k damage, and IIRC he wasnt even CLOSE to having the buffs in the picture you provide. NOT EVEN CLOSE. so no, i am not surprised to see players with MORE buffs, with BETTER GEAR, doing MORE DAMAGE. it just follows logically.

a titan cannot keep this damage up for long. as you can see, you need a ton of help for an extended period of time. a titan also cannot do this damage at range.

a mage OTOH requires less buffs to do the same damage AND can do it at range. Mages QQing about Melees isnt going to win anyone's favour that Mages are Gimp in any way.

(not directed at jayza) the pictures posted above, and the movie provided are clear cut examples of how youre SUPPOSED to play the game. those are TRUE end game characters, who are the strongest they will be. they in no way reflect the vast majority, because (as you can see) these are already Heros, and have proven their hero attributes on the field. crying that all melee do 1million damage to 80's bosses is a logical fallacy, as well as normal sts doing 40k damage to players. these are clearly minority players; for their exceptional talents we should respect them and understand they have raised the bar of standard for people to bring themselves to.
a) Magic Damage doesnt factor your armor. the character in question could be wearing NO armor, and still take the same damage; remember you can't immediately see what Jewels people wear, and it has long been known that epic jewels trade Mdef for bonuses in other areas - i.e. a set of s80 jewelery will resist more than a player in assorted frint/aq/baium/zaken/antharas....

b) back when Tiat and Gracia was first around, we saw Anthon (from Bartz NA server) crit tiat using simple non OEd S blunt for 225k damage, and IIRC he wasnt even CLOSE to having the buffs in the picture you provide. NOT EVEN CLOSE. so no, i am not surprised to see players with MORE buffs, with BETTER GEAR, doing MORE DAMAGE. it just follows logically.

a titan cannot keep this damage up for long. as you can see, you need a ton of help for an extended period of time. a titan also cannot do this damage at range.

a mage OTOH requires less buffs to do the same damage AND can do it at range. Mages QQing about Melees isnt going to win anyone's favour that Mages are Gimp in any way.

(not directed at jayza) the pictures posted above, and the movie provided are clear cut examples of how youre SUPPOSED to play the game. those are TRUE end game characters, who are the strongest they will be. they in no way reflect the vast majority, because (as you can see) these are already Heros, and have proven their hero attributes on the field. crying that all melee do 1million damage to 80's bosses is a logical fallacy, as well as normal sts doing 40k damage to players. these are clearly minority players; for their exceptional talents we should respect them and understand they have raised the bar of standard for people to bring themselves to.



First of All I do know how to play.. And do know this crits are normal in this game because it is not surprise (as you said) to see these crits in this game with this system..

I am telling only that if mages crit 40k and titan makes only 1 single hit and kills enemy even not giving any chance to win is not related to the Player who plays with it... ITS RELATED ONLY TO THE GAME SYSTEM.. Only TO the basic Character stats and SKILLs which are brought to us by NcSoft..

I am telling that Ncsoft going in wrong direction.. they totally lost balance between classes.. in every update they are introducing something new to keep players in game for making money.. and every new info brings us unbalance...
actually it pretty much is skill. to get a titan to 1 hit everyone in OLY means the titan must have BETTER power than everyone; remember you dont have access to ALL buffs in OLY. so in OLY, 1hitting everyone is SKILL. well, skill and gear and clan passives/xmas shirt/wards...

then again a lot of people disregard Olympiad, and view it as not pvp.

i fall into that category, but thats beside the point.
if Titan begins oly match with prefrenzy and gets 30k p.atk with icarus weap normally you dont a chance against him with 7-8k p.atk.. even if in PVP you will not have a chance to use potions because after 1 hit you already will be dead..

in some ways its good but in some its bad..

in raids its good that titan has frenzy and guts.. they are very usefull in raids..

But against players in PVP or in oly this skils is insane..
in the near future if I see people soloing epic bosses I will not excited... If anyone interests you can dowload hero Titan's movie from russian official server CADMUS.. he just only makes 1 normal hit to everyone in oly... not skill hit just 1 normal hit.. isnt it insane? video link (http://files.mail.ru/HFN5WB)

It is not close to 1hitting what is on that vid.

And half of matches are only against his own clan toons not managing situation at all. For example kamaels do not landed any disarm..., not changing armor for UD.. dagger staying in hide in aoe range..

And he near lost against many of them....
look because some classes its hard to kill even a normal titan there is always a way to win against them


sps,sorc use cancelation to cancel their reinforcment skills (yea i know lionheart but still its not 100%)

soulhound can beat any titan easy i mean any (if soulhound knows how to play)

archers (can kite them)


etc etc etc etc because something is hard....yes i know it is hard but nothing is imposible
It is not close to 1hitting what is on that vid.

And half of matches are only against his own clan toons not managing situation at all. For example kamaels do not landed any disarm..., not changing armor for UD.. dagger staying in hide in aoe range..

And he near lost against many of them....

1. there is not anything related with same clan members.. I know you dont understand russian and its normal.. in the opening of video do you know what was written? video was made under the monitoring of GM's..
and in these server all top levels from his ally.. ally and clan sign same for all ally clans..

2. he was in prefrenzy in every match? which means he started with less than 30% HP... that is why his HP was too low which doesnt mean he was loosing but won with a chance...