i know many players from my server that got banned last few days almost a hole clan was wipped out!
If the gms were saying the names of the character they would transform from gms to 1st class spammers since they banned quite a lot of ppl!!!
oh yes i remember him..he was the first and probably the last GM that made announcements:D was pretty fun. wonder what happend with him....still too many bots to banxD
oh yes i remember him..he was the first and probably the last GM that made announcements:D was pretty fun. wonder what happend with him....still too many bots to banxD
He got moved to another position on a different game. Aion I hear and look at the bot explosion there.
Yeah, Spam got moved to Aion. The only problem with making announcement in game as GMs are banning would give the botters that have other accounts or have not be caught a head start.
I remember as soon as Spam was on Aria shouting, most of the cata/necro became empty for several hours as the bot users saw posts on the site i shall not mentioned. Thus many did not got ban as the result. They just waited for the GMs to leave the server and then log in and moved to a different area. Spam also said it is not the most effective way to comabt bots. Howeverm good for legit players since they can have those areas for a little time and knowing bots do get ban.. although only a few. I prefer the ninja ban though.
The GM's don't just go in and ninja ban bots or cheaters.
They have the hardest job of getting evidence before they can do so. :(
Please someone give GM's the tools they need to speed up the process.
Tools u need to ban bots
1) Computer
2) L2 installed
3) Hands to move your mouse
4) Eyes to see the bots
5) a brain to process that that line of characters with random alphabets and numbers as names that's been logged in for 166hrs and xping all that time, and doesn't use SS are bots.
5a) a brain to process that a person 'BOXING' buffers cannot possible be poling in FoG while singing/dancing/healing/changing targets at *exactly* the same time... well unless you have 4 separate computers, 4 mice, 4 keyboards.... and 4 hands.... macros do not control 4 different characters.
5b) a brain to see botted buffers not actually AFing but walking towards the 'leader' toon's destination
5c) a brain to see that bots do not auto hit mobs but walk next to it, pause for a split second then hit it (only reason i can think why bots is made that way is to navigate the toon next to the mob first before attacking to avoid getting stuck on things), only exception is if the toon is a dagger and navigates to the back of a mob for stabbing, that's harder to tell apart from bots
5d) a brain to see that lvl 85 chars popping out of nowhere while untagged leveled to 85 within a couple months aren't 'clean' at all...
can say more but obviously they don't care, because if I were a GM I'd prolly bankrupt NCNA because they lost at least 50% of their 'customers'.
can say more but obviously they don't care, because if I were a GM I'd prolly bankrupt NCNA because they lost at least 50% of their 'customers'.
Now you understand why there will always be bots.
NCNA is clueless. since russian official servers were opened, it is outside of the question. their administration is actually banning bots all the time and there are 10 heavily populated servers (4-5k evening online) and plans to open more servers.
NCNA is clueless. since russian official servers were opened, it is outside of the question. their administration is actually banning bots all the time and there are 10 heavily populated servers (4-5k evening online) and plans to open more servers.
Difference is that RU Official relies on customers not boting (since it's free to play) and buying stuff they sell for their income. So banning bots actually makes money for them, it forces people to buy exp runes etc. NCWest doesn't have things like that, its income is directly linked to how many people pay for an account each month.
The GM's don't just go in and ninja ban bots or cheaters.
They have the hardest job of getting evidence before they can do so. :(
Please someone give GM's the tools they need to speed up the process.
NCSoft US already has an internal team to produce such tool, the GSU (game surveillance unit). It was started end of 2009, and includes people who actually know what they're doing, like Lum the Mad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lum_the_Mad) (also known as GM Luminary or Scott Jennings).
The problem? As of now, they only work on Aion. I did suggest to let them work on Lineage II too (http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=207202), but seems nobody else is interested, judging by the lack of responses.
Difference is that RU Official relies on customers not boting (since it's free to play) and buying stuff they sell for their income. So banning bots actually makes money for them, it forces people to buy exp runes etc. NCWest doesn't have things like that, its income is directly linked to how many people pay for an account each month.
from what i know almost every active player on RuOff purchases so called Premium Account which effectively doubles exp and drop rates, so it is pretty much the same as subscription fee we have here. but that's not the point. the point is that bot free servers attract heaps of players. it is now a matter of fact, not a theory. nc soft has chosen wrong turn believing that botting accounts would bring more profit for them but eventually they ended up with dying servers. the cycle is simple: bots populate the server - legit players start quitting - bots start quitting because legit players were "food supply" for them - empty servers as a result.
from what i know almost every active player on RuOff purchases so called Premium Account which effectively doubles exp and drop rates, so it is pretty much the same as subscription fee we have here.
The main difference - for the players - is that the free version is actually very well playable, and played, which brings people to play more (even if it's just now and then on the free account) and so the servers are more populated.
That's why the free MappleStory has 100M subscribers and the payable WoW 6M (... after they lost another 6M or so when WoW China was forced to shutdown).
but that's not the point. the point is that bot free servers attract heaps of players. it is now a matter of fact, not a theory. nc soft has chosen wrong turn believing that botting accounts would bring more profit for them but eventually they ended up with dying servers. the cycle is simple: bots populate the server - legit players start quitting - bots start quitting because legit players were "food supply" for them - empty servers as a result.
That would create liability for NCSoft to be sued for libel.
Let them sue.
1. Libel (and slander) requires the statement to be damaging to someone's reputation. Since the statement would only list the character/account names and not the person's real names, there is no damage to that person's reputation either.
2. A truth can't be a libel or slander.
3. A statement made in a good faith and reasonable belief that it is true is treated the same as a true statement in such cases.
I say: Go sue for libel or slander, botters. It's your money you're losing. :)
1. Libel (and slander) requires the statement to be damaging to someone's reputation. Since the statement would only list the character/account names and not the person's real names, there is no damage to that person's reputation either.
2. A truth can't be a libel or slander.
3. A statement made in a good faith and reasonable belief that it is true is treated the same as a true statement in such cases.
I say: Go sue for libel or slander, botters. It's your money you're losing. :)
1. If you can connect your online persona to your real-life person, you've bridge that gap. A lot of my clanmates know my person outside of L2.
2. Well no duh it cannot, but if you can prove you were in fact not breaking the EULA then NCSoft has not made a factual statement.
3. I wouldn't be surprised if the documentation methods that NCSoft utilizes is lacking can could not support a case that they used "good faith and reasonable belief". I mean.. hell they cannot even access the player db accurately enough to return hacked players gear, I doubt they could provide adequate evidence to show someone was truly botting.
That would create liability for NCSoft to be sued for libel.
pretty sure the EULA states "your" accounts actually belong to them, you are just paying them to get to play them. can't be libel when the accounts belong to NC in the first place and they can do whatever they want.
1. If you can connect your online persona to your real-life person, you've bridge that gap. A lot of my clanmates know my person outside of L2.
"Character X got banned for botting" is still a statement about the character, no matter what bridges the person behind it chose to build. No statement about the person = no libel or slander possible.
2. Well no duh it cannot, but if you can prove you were in fact not breaking the EULA then NCSoft has not made a factual statement.
You can't generally prove you didn't do something. It would require you to have a third person monitor your real-life activities and testify before the court about it, for every second your character has been logged in. If they missed even a few minutes, you might have done an EULA violation during the time.
3. I wouldn't be surprised if the documentation methods that NCSoft utilizes is lacking can could not support a case that they used "good faith and reasonable belief". I mean.. hell they cannot even access the player db accurately enough to return hacked players gear, I doubt they could provide adequate evidence to show someone was truly botting.
I'm in some cases in a similar situation the NCSoft GMs are - I'm a security professional at a hosting provider. I also have the right to "ban" any customer from accessing their servers at any time, for any reason, and it is automatically assumed that I acted in good faith and with a reasonable belief that I was justified. Yes, before courts as well. It was tested time and time again, and while our (ex-)customers can sue us for lost revenues and the like, and had a few times even won (well ... we make errors, we're human after all), there's no chance in hell they would ever succeeded in suing me or my company for libel. And yes, there's a way for anyone to check if a specific server got banned (their IP address gets re-routed in a special way).
The reasoning is simple: I'm a professional, therefore - unless proven otherwise beyond reasonable doubt - every "ban" I do is justified, therefore it can't be libel or slander (actually, the legal term here is defamation, but that's beyond the point :)).
1. If you can connect your online persona to your real-life person, you've bridge that gap. A lot of my clanmates know my person outside of L2.
LoL @ defending your botting reputation.
I wouldn't be surprised if the documentation methods that NCSoft utilizes is lacking can could not support a case that they used "good faith and reasonable belief". I mean.. hell they cannot even access the player db accurately enough to return hacked players gear, I doubt they could provide adequate evidence to show someone was truly botting.
I'm sure that they can provide adequate evidence to show that the corresponding account has been banned.
1. Libel (and slander) requires the statement to be damaging to someone's reputation. Since the statement would only list the character/account names and not the person's real names, there is no damage to that person's reputation either.
2. A truth can't be a libel or slander.
3. A statement made in a good faith and reasonable belief that it is true is treated the same as a true statement in such cases.
I say: Go sue for libel or slander, botters. It's your money you're losing. :)
1. A persons reputation doesn't just extend to their personal name, but also anything that is personally linked to them, like a character.
2. They would then have to have enough evidence to stand up in a court of law, not to mention it would mean they would have to publish their bot detection methods.
3. This is true, but again, a company would have a hard time proving good faith.
While yes, they'd lose money *if* they lose, NCSoft would be losing even more money hiring good lawyers and risk actually losing a case, which would open the floodgates to more bots and lawsuits, basically destroying L2 and heck, create havoc in the gaming industry.
Oh and they'd be in real trouble if they banned someone in error and announced them as cheaters.
There's a reason why no P2P game is doing this and its not because every MMO company out there is in league with botters.
I would like to see more bots banned too, I am just saying why they aren't doing this particular method.
1. A persons reputation doesn't just extend to their personal name, but also anything that is personally linked to them, like a character.
That's wrong. Your character isn't personally linked to you. At least I don't see NCSoft writing down your name, birth date and place of residence next to your character's name, which would be what is at least required for such a link to exist.
2. They would then have to have enough evidence to stand up in a court of law, not to mention it would mean they would have to publish their bot detection methods.
3. This is true, but again, a company would have a hard time proving good faith.
You're getting your law procedures mixed here. It's a civil case, not a criminal one. All NCSoft needs to do is to convince the judge(s) that they acted in good faith. Evidence helps, but isn't even formally required. As I wrote earlier - in my position, it is automatically assumed I act in good faith when I ban a customer's account/server, by the courts, unless the other party can show compelling reasons why I would do otherwise in this specific case (Like, flaming or threatening the customer in question on some forums, or trying extortion - "give me money, or I'll ruin your business!" - or crap like that. Of course, I'm a professional. I don't do that.). I don't need to prove anything even though a proper "paper trail" (again: I'm a professional, of course I have all the evidence I need and some more safely stored) helps. But then, in a civil case nobody needs a "proof", just to convince the judge(s) that they're most likely right.
There's a reason why no P2P game is doing this and its not because every MMO company out there is in league with botters.
There's a simpler reason: Lack of manpower or short-term profit in doing so. That said, it's been a while, but I think the "MyUO" site allows you to check if some other people are banned or not.
The old forum engine wasn't linked to actual game accounts, that came with vBB as far as I recall.
The old forum account was somehow linked (I don't care about implementation details of that) to the player's master account; however, they did use separate passwords. When the player was banned, the forum account was banned as well - and it did show up in the forum account's title.
That's wrong. Your character isn't personally linked to you. At least I don't see NCSoft writing down your name, birth date and place of residence next to your character's name, which would be what is at least required for such a link to exist.
Actually, as its uniquely linked to you, it would indeed count. Just as an adress for instance isn't "personally" linked to you, but if you say "Hey, person at <persons adress> is a ******", you will still be liable.
Characters are linked to real people and have real personal reputation.
You're getting your law procedures mixed here. It's a civil case, not a criminal one. All NCSoft needs to do is to convince the judge(s) that they acted in good faith. Evidence helps, but isn't even formally required. As I wrote earlier - in my position, it is automatically assumed I act in good faith when I ban a customer's account/server, by the courts, unless the other party can show compelling reasons why I would do otherwise in this specific case (Like, flaming or threatening the customer in question on some forums, or trying extortion - "give me money, or I'll ruin your business!" - or crap like that. Of course, I'm a professional. I don't do that.). I don't need to prove anything even though a proper "paper trail" (again: I'm a professional, of course I have all the evidence I need and some more safely stored) helps. But then, in a civil case nobody needs a "proof", just to convince the judge(s) that they're most likely right.
They would if it became a real contested case. And again, while you would be assumed in good faith for actually banning, you would not necessarily be deemed in good faith when announcing such to the world and tarnishing a real persons reputation.
Lets say for instance Player A gets banned. Player A turns out to be innocent...voila, lawsuit ready for being tarnished in the gaming world as a cheater.
There's a simpler reason: Lack of manpower or short-term profit in doing so. That said, it's been a while, but I think the "MyUO" site allows you to check if some other people are banned or not.
Blizzard has never been shy of neither manpower or will to do things that lack short-term profits, yet, they don't even do it.
MyUO hasn't shown any such details in ages and ages afaik...and even when/if it can, then UO does *not* use unique character names, so there's no direct link between a character and a player in the same way as other MMOs.
The old forum account was somehow linked (I don't care about implementation details of that) to the player's master account; however, they did use separate passwords. When the player was banned, the forum account was banned as well - and it did show up in the forum account's title.
Ok, no idea...I was erroneously banned back when they had that server mess up along with a whole bunch of other people and my title never was "banned".
But even if they did so, perhaps their legal department reminded them that this was a bad idea.