So I would like to know when with NCSoft change Archers into a class that means something?
As it is now there is no where for a higher level archer to xp past 78 that is efficient use of time. Archers only get one skill past 80 making it worth while to xp them and that is a pve skill of silent mind. Archers have been nerfed into the ground over the last few updates.
The reduction in our patk the closer people get to us, the ability for many classes to out run us now such as Kamaels, Daggers, Glads, and Tyrants. Archers have become a totally useless class.
Nevermind the mental genius that decided to allow archery resist song and dance stack on each other results in an archer critting on robes for 250 damage lol. When an archer cannot kill a nuker which they were designed to kill there is something wrong with the way the system is made.
A nuker can two hit you if they land their vortex and their buster on you. If one crits an archer is usually dead in 1 hit. Daggers have so many evasion increasing skills and the ability to hide, and now dual daggers. Archers got........
I think a total revamp of the system needs to be done because archers use to be one of the fast levelers after nukers but post 78 its harder on them then all the melee classes. Nukers got several places to level post 78 now archers still don't have one.
Mithril mines is 81+
Plains of lizardmen will be 82+
How does an archer get from 78 - 81? without having to result to playing a pole or dagger to get there which makes no sense in how an archer was designed.
So what you're asking is for them to make archers over-powered again instead of bringing the other classes back from being over-powered?
Archers still deal a lot of damage, I am not sure why you're suggesting they don't. It's just some of the other classes you're talking about are over-powered. It's not that you're underpowered.
If an archer cannot kill anyone of equal level on a battlefield i do not know how you think they are dd's.
If i crit for 1k its a lot nowadays. Fully buffed at 78 with cov and bd dances i think hardest i hit a Nuker that was 79 for was 1200, care to explain ?
If they had the archer resist dance and song up it would of been 250. Archers are suppose to be deadly and they aren't. There is no where to xp them and they haven't gotten a new skill since archery almost 2 years ago.
So its not just overpowered but its been nerfed into the ground. Olympiad nevermind cause they cannot beat anyone in it now that the stadium is too small to kite anymore.
Well, he is right you know. It's terribly inefficient to find a spot where to level right now, and if I find a party, (emphasys on IF) chances are I have to indeed equip a pole or a dagger to make things work because where we hunt, there's no herb that drops mana regen and shooting arrows last I checked, do cost mana, untill 81.
Which is - immensly redicoules, that skill should be available since 76 if you ask me. Think about it though, would you make it so that weapon wielding per hit cost mana? No you wouldn't. Then why for archers?
Indirectly meaning I have to hunt in spots which drop herbs because else, after 5minutes, I have to sit and wait for my mana to be replenished for 5minutes. (which anyone will tell you is incredibly inefficient and quite frankly boring..)
Seriously ... what nuker group has Archery dance up?
and you can exp at mithril mines from 78, there's no barriers that stop you ... mobs are 2 shot anyways. And yes exp there is lousy, same as all the other solo spots for the other classes. Or you could do it oldschool, Pagan, maybe HB with a good group bottom of IT is pretty decent spot for 2 archers etc etc
Well, he is right you know. It's terribly inefficient to find a spot where to level right now, and if I find a party, (emphasys on IF) chances are I have to indeed equip a pole or a dagger to make things work because where we hunt, there's no herb that drops mana regen and shooting arrows last I checked, do cost mana, untill 81.
So... start a party? I am sure there are other archers, bd, sws, ee, wc in your clan that need leveling. Here are party setups that I have seen work:
IT Boss Room: 2 Archers, BD, SWS, EE, WC
Pagans Anteroom: Archer, WC, EE
Pagans Darkness Room: Archer, BD, WC, EE
Tullies: 4 archers, WC, BD, SWS, EE, BP with archers evenly spaced in the room to bounce mobs between the archers, full dark resist suits required.
Entrance to Chromatic: Archer, PP
Top of MOS: 2 archers, BD, SWS, EE, WC
Your arrogance is not very helpful, neither was your post really. Because my clan nor random people I find in shout or anywhere else are not up for constant party's of that structure.
And I would know, I have tried. I'm sure you haven't.
Your arrogance is not very helpful, neither was your post really. Because my clan nor random people I find in shout or anywhere else are not up for constant party's of that structure.
And I would know, I have tried. I'm sure you haven't.
He didn't really give you bad or unreasonable suggestions... I Solo'd in Ketra, and IoP, so there are places to solo, but getting a small group together isn't hard, the classes he suggested should be relatively common at this point in the game. Either way, end game XP, 80+ isn't really about soloing for the most part, so if you want to get decent XP you need to either find yourself a clan, or people to XP with accordingly. Don't think your gonna get 80+ in a reasonable amount of time soloing if thats what your intentions were.
Your arrogance is not very helpful, neither was your post really. Because my clan nor random people I find in shout or anywhere else are not up for constant party's of that structure.
And I would know, I have tried. I'm sure you haven't.
You are right... people ask me to party because I chose to play a support class. I am sorry that you chose a DD, and now crying because you cannot level without support.
If your clan cannot create parties like that... well you need a new clan. Also have you tried: %Pagans/IT Party LF SWS, EE, etc.???
I level warred constantly and I am restricted to only my clan, can you say the same?
Why does everyone want to be able to 1 shot everyone? Since when is 1200 damage not a good hit? It's the same argument again and again in these threads.
Why does everyone want to be able to 1 shot everyone? Since when is 1200 damage not a good hit? It's the same argument again and again in these threads.
It would be a good hit if others were doing the same. The difference is daggers, kamaels, nukers, gladdys, they're all hitting you tons with their burst damage. (Not so much nukers with burst damage, but the rest sure.)
You can say "Well those classes will run out of MP", but you'll be lying on the floor dead long before they do. It wouldn't be much of a problem if the "overpowered" classes weren't able to hit others for so much.
I think a lot of the archers are use to soloing because they aren't really used, or needed in parties... At least not until 76+. At least I havent seen one. Also they use to be so good that now that they suck so bad its really upsetting.
I honestly believe that they need to get un-nerfed slightly, but then again others I'm sure will get the nerf hammer soon enough.
What killed it for me really was the reduction in dmg for mobs 80+ (and yeah - I know this is not archer only). I didn't mind being one shot by mages in Oly and somehow managed to get over the reduced dmg/distance nerf, but this was the last straw as its gotten harder to hunt in places where it used to be possible and it slowed down my leveling to 80 to a crawl (not that it was very fast before).
I wonder though - why all those nerfs - it probably would've made more sense in C1 when people were in their 40s and everyone was crying about being one shot by archers. Instead it all happened out of nowhere when the other classes were better anyway.
Parties? yeah I get them from time to time. Unless I'm in a small party with support classes they ask me to turn off my shots or just don't hit at all cause I draw aggro and disrupt the rhythm.
PvP? I am happy to survive the first 5-10 seconds of a fight spamming CP pots like crazy. Sometimes I can't even get a shot out because archers are easy prey hence being targeted by others a lot.
So - I don't actively level anymore. I do the Oly fights. Die 9 times, unless some lost soul that farms points or doesn't know how to play their class shows up, collect my tokens and then rinse/repeat next month. Similar situation with TW and sieges - just collecting fame for the most part. The only thing keeping me in game is all the years I put into it (and I still have some paid time). I thought about leveling some other class, but why bother? There are other games out there that don't take that much time and are more fun to play.
and you can exp at mithril mines from 78, there's no barriers that stop you ... mobs are 2 shot anyways.
You can go to mithril on 78, if you have 2 boss jewels to actually 2-shot mobs + armor stacked with dark and fire resists. Or take bd, wc and ee with you, but then solo Varka will give you better xp.
Anyway problem with xping archers is their lack of versatiliy, not lack of xp spots.
A single archer in a meele party is a pain in the , unless he use a dagger and hit for crappy dmg. Archer parties before 81 always need a recharger, while meele can often use only VR and don't bother looking for healers etc. Nukers have the same problem as archers, but nukers can solo or duo efficiently, while there's no support available to make a party.
As for pvp, archers used to exchange lack of any defensive abilities (no pdef, no mdef, no evasion, no high hp/cp) for an ability to hit hard. Now the ability to hit hard was removed without giving anything in exchange, and the rest you can figure.
As for Xellib, if you think, that fully buffed CRITICAL HIT on a robe user for 1200 dmg is good for a DD class... then yes, every other DD except archers is overpowered.
I have now been running around all over the map testing were I can get good xp.
The best spot with out a doubt is silent valley in transformations. I also have a buffalo running after me buffing and healing.
A healer has various forms of crowd control, particularly root, which can be drastic vs any close combat class. Once the enemy is rooted the healer can pull out a bow and shoot, and if necessary re-root the enemy. A healer has mana drain, potent vs nukers. Should these abilities ALWAYS work? No. That's not the point though, the point is that healers CAN do these things. Rooting an archer isn't practical, but mana drain can be. Mana drain the archer so he has to pull out a melee weapon, then root him, then shoot him (or root then drain, w/e).
It's not about simply pwning everything, each class is supposed to be strong/weak vs particular other classes. The rest should be skill vs skill (player skill).
I don't know why so many people bother to get all the SP for their skills when they never learn how to use those skills anyway.
A healer has various forms of crowd control, particularly root, which can be drastic vs any close combat class. Once the enemy is rooted the healer can pull out a bow and shoot, and if necessary re-root the enemy. A healer has mana drain, potent vs nukers. Should these abilities ALWAYS work? No. That's not the point though, the point is that healers CAN do these things. Rooting an archer isn't practical, but mana drain can be. Mana drain the archer so he has to pull out a melee weapon, then root him, then shoot him (or root then drain, w/e).
It's not about simply pwning everything, each class is supposed to be strong/weak vs particular other classes. The rest should be skill vs skill (player skill).
I don't know why so many people bother to get all the SP for their skills when they never learn how to use those skills anyway.
Man before auguments and inquisitor any healer was a 2 shot from a bow, it was aways stun, double shot, healer down, not counting that before you reach the range of the archer to drain something you would already probably got a critical on the but.
Man before auguments and inquisitor any healer was a 2 shot from a bow, it was aways stun, double shot, healer down, not counting that before you reach the range of the archer to drain something you would already probably got a critical on the but.
At least since interlude (which is long time) healers do well in oly.
Oly is balanced in a way, so every class gets killed by someone and can kill someone.
Except archers, that get killed by every other class.
And still, olympiad weakness doesn't negate any other point, that was raised in this thread before. So you can't say "They suck in oly, but they are good at..."
Instead of outdamaging a Nuker, Dagger or Souhound, you might want to try stunning them. Unless they completely outgear and outlevel you, your stun should land on at least nukers and soulhounds most of the time.
Silent Mind is not a pve-only skill, by far. I take it you've never run out of mp during mass pvp or a siege? In a good and balanced pvp situation the group that runs out of mp first will the group that loses. Silent Mind is a nuker's wet dream.
I won't call Archers overpowered by all means. They do still fulfill their purposes though - but only if they're geared well. That snipe-thing next update sounds pretty hax too (not sure if it's quite as hex as casting 2 nukes at the same time though, I'll give you that, heh... but if you can stun/kill them before they get in nuke-range you won't have to worry about that).
Instead of outdamaging a Nuker, Dagger or Souhound, you might want to try stunning them. Unless they completely outgear and outlevel you, your stun should land on at least nukers and soulhounds most of the time.
Silent Mind is not a pve-only skill, by far. I take it you've never run out of mp during mass pvp or a siege? In a good and balanced pvp situation the group that runs out of mp first will the group that loses. Silent Mind is a nuker's wet dream.
I won't call Archers overpowered by all means. They do still fulfill their purposes though - but only if they're geared well. That snipe-thing next update sounds pretty hax too (not sure if it's quite as hex as casting 2 nukes at the same time though, I'll give you that, heh... but if you can stun/kill them before they get in nuke-range you won't have to worry about that).
Snipe Scope will be a must at a castle wall. Wish they create tankers barricades like the ones of Tera, thats would be amazing, after gates down a great barricade of 80+ tankers preventing people to enter, it would drasticaly change sieges.
If an archer cannot kill anyone of equal level on a battlefield i do not know how you think they are dd's.
If i crit for 1k its a lot nowadays. Fully buffed at 78 with cov and bd dances i think hardest i hit a Nuker that was 79 for was 1200, care to explain ?
If they had the archer resist dance and song up it would of been 250. Archers are suppose to be deadly and they aren't. There is no where to xp them and they haven't gotten a new skill since archery almost 2 years ago.
So its not just overpowered but its been nerfed into the ground. Olympiad nevermind cause they cannot beat anyone in it now that the stadium is too small to kite anymore.
Sly, I'm guessing you'll find non-archers to be a bit short on sympathy. The archers were an "I win" button for 3-3.5 YEARS.
My DA would crit in your example for "damage of 312" and miss the next 4 hits--so my sympathy is a bit lacking just like everyone else.
You are actually (imo) close to an argument that I believe does have merit however. NCSoft has been on a "push damage output UP" frenzy for the better part of 3 years. Over and over and over, depending upon which class the decision makers in Korea are playing presently.
No end in site.
It appears that with no development 'plan' at all, with no thought to balance, with no attention (other than perhaps a brief nod in the general direction) to most other classes, they pick a "darling of the month" and *poof* instant pwnage for the class.
Unfortunately for you archer types, it ain't you these days. As for when it should be? You fall to the back of the list after years of having everything go your way. Remember how your archer buddies crowed that "we do so much damage that 5 of us in a party don't even NEED a tank?"
I do.
Welcome to the world most others play--it's your turn to be disappointed.
Snipe Scope will be a must at a castle wall. Wish they create tankers barricades like the ones of Tera, thats would be amazing, after gates down a great barricade of 80+ tankers preventing people to enter, it would drasticaly change sieges.
Just play lineage3...erm Tera, when it comes out.
Sly, I'm guessing you'll find non-archers to be a bit short on sympathy. The archers were an "I win" button for 3-3.5 YEARS.
My DA would crit in your example for "damage of 312" and miss the next 4 hits--so my sympathy is a bit lacking just like everyone else.
You are actually (imo) close to an argument that I believe does have merit however. NCSoft has been on a "push damage output UP" frenzy for the better part of 3 years. Over and over and over, depending upon which class the decision makers in Korea are playing presently.
No end in site.
It appears that with no development 'plan' at all, with no thought to balance, with no attention (other than perhaps a brief nod in the general direction) to most other classes, they pick a "darling of the month" and *poof* instant pwnage for the class.
Unfortunately for you archer types, it ain't you these days. As for when it should be? You fall to the back of the list after years of having everything go your way. Remember how your archer buddies crowed that "we do so much damage that 5 of us in a party don't even NEED a tank?"
I do.
Welcome to the world most others play--it's your turn to be disappointed.
+1
NC's ******ed approach (Let's make this class Godlike for x time and then nerf it to oblivion) only makes people angry and frustrated. Balance is something that they don't even pretend they try to achieve. If L2 playerbase fades, NC has the most blame.
Sly, I'm guessing you'll find non-archers to be a bit short on sympathy. The archers were an "I win" button for 3-3.5 YEARS.
My DA would crit in your example for "damage of 312" and miss the next 4 hits--so my sympathy is a bit lacking just like everyone else.
You are actually (imo) close to an argument that I believe does have merit however. NCSoft has been on a "push damage output UP" frenzy for the better part of 3 years. Over and over and over, depending upon which class the decision makers in Korea are playing presently.
No end in site.
It appears that with no development 'plan' at all, with no thought to balance, with no attention (other than perhaps a brief nod in the general direction) to most other classes, they pick a "darling of the month" and *poof* instant pwnage for the class.
Unfortunately for you archer types, it ain't you these days. As for when it should be? You fall to the back of the list after years of having everything go your way. Remember how your archer buddies crowed that "we do so much damage that 5 of us in a party don't even NEED a tank?"
I do.
Welcome to the world most others play--it's your turn to be disappointed.
I am not an archer, nor have a I played one, and yes I've been kill by plenty of them. My main is an OL but I still recognize the fact that Archers are too weak for what they should be. What they used to be is irrelevant. What they SHOULD be, what any class SHOULD be, is all that matters.
Comparing a tanks damage output to an Archers damage output is like comparing an SH to a PP. Tanks aren't DD's. It's hard for me to care about your lack of sympathy for archers if you don't know you're not a DD.
It's not about trying to figure out who's turn it is to be nerfed/overpowered.
Nukers have the same problem as archers, but nukers can solo or duo efficiently, while there's no support available to make a party.
Nukers only solo efficiently with an oop se/ee. That's why most nukers have a second account. Don't compare archer soloing nuker soloing unless the archer also has a second account.
It would be a good hit if others were doing the same. The difference is daggers, kamaels, nukers, gladdys, they're all hitting you tons with their burst damage. (Not so much nukers with burst damage, but the rest sure.)
As for Xellib, if you think, that fully buffed CRITICAL HIT on a robe user for 1200 dmg is good for a DD class... then yes, every other DD except archers is overpowered.
I hope both of you don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I am not saying that the other classes aren't over-powered. But to balance the game doesn't mean you need to further make everyone else over-powered. It would make much more sense to bring the power of those with outrageous damage down. That was more the point I was trying to make. I think back on the old days, some of you have been around long enough to remember, when mass-pvp would last for 10 or 15 minutes. When people got to have fun and do things without worrying about spamming 400 CP pots and seeing how many people they can one shot.
In comparison to other classes are the archers keeping up? No. You guys are right, they aren't. What would be a good solution? Boosting archers to being over-powered again or "nerfing" the other classes to make them more reasonable?
I am not an archer, nor have a I played one, and yes I've been kill by plenty of them. My main is an OL but I still recognize the fact that Archers are too weak for what they should be. What they used to be is irrelevant. What they SHOULD be, what any class SHOULD be, is all that matters.
Comparing a tanks damage output to an Archers damage output is like comparing an SH to a PP. Tanks aren't DD's. It's hard for me to care about your lack of sympathy for archers if you don't know you're not a DD.
It's not about trying to figure out who's turn it is to be nerfed/overpowered.
And cause tankers are not DDs ist's fair to take 3k damage on criticals from your natural prey like it was in the past? Archers still do a lot of damage, its the class with the highest damage per hit so they do what they are suppoused to do give damage. Dances/songs are a burden? Yes, bur stigma is too, slamm is too, and a hell lots of skills can make some classes cry rivers... what xelib said is fact, who is OP must be nerfed and who is gimp must be boosted till balance reaches its limit.
I am not an archer, nor have a I played one, and yes I've been kill by plenty of them. My main is an OL but I still recognize the fact that Archers are too weak for what they should be. What they used to be is irrelevant. What they SHOULD be, what any class SHOULD be, is all that matters.
Comparing a tanks damage output to an Archers damage output is like comparing an SH to a PP. Tanks aren't DD's. It's hard for me to care about your lack of sympathy for archers if you don't know you're not a DD.
It's not about trying to figure out who's turn it is to be nerfed/overpowered.
It is EXACTLY about who's turn it is to be nerfed/overpowered. Because NCSoft has repeatedly done EXACTLY that.
Sly wrote to say, "my archer should get love now"--and it is central to that discussion to include how classes get to be overpowered, how they get nerfed, when that happens, what's happened in the past, etc.
I'm not the one that started this ridiculous "let's just continually boost one darling class-of-the-year in insane damage output" trend, but that doesn't mean discussing the fact that archers were that darling class for a long time is irrelevant, either.
If you read my example as comparing a tank to a ranged DD then you've simply misunderstood, btw. A guy who out-damages most DD's writes, "my 1200 is pathetic" there should be some expectation of responses to that (from DD's who can't hit that hard and others as well!).
The OP conveniently neglects to mention he can drop that arrow from roughly 130 miles away and run like the wind out of harms way from everyone except 1 nuke class. Not exactly pity-inspiring.
Archers are too weak for what they should be. What they used to be is irrelevant.
Tanks aren't DD's. It's hard for me to care about your lack of sympathy for archers if you don't know you're not a DD.
+1
we're dealing with the situation as it is now, the past IS irrelevant.
because if they keep archers nerfed, people will just quit the game.
it's far too late to reroll for many people so NC has to be careful who and how they nerf, because if one class is nerfed too much ppl will just quit, they won't bother to reroll anymore.
we're dealing with the situation as it is now, the past IS irrelevant.
because if they keep archers nerfed, people will just quit the game.
it's far too late to reroll for many people so NC has to be careful who and how they nerf, because if one class is nerfed too much ppl will just quit, they won't bother to reroll anymore.
O wait, was not too far when people quited theyr 75 toons to re-roll archers? No excuses, people quit cause they don't wanna deal with being not the rulers anymore. Past is not irrelevant cause nobody except the archers wan't them as they was before.
I'd MUCH rather reroll at 75, or even 78, than at 80/81.
EDIT: Archers don't need to be boosted to be OP again, nor do other classes need to be brought down. Give them equivalent power for their individual intended purposes. Edit again: If it's required to raise/lower the power of certain classes to balance them then it should be done, but it's not about who's turn it is to be OP for the month.
**** brain farts, gonna end up with more edits than the Sunday paper.
LOL I get what you're saying foodstuffs but if you look at it, philosophically I suppose, if you raise group A up to meet group B you are inherently bringing group B down to meet group A. Either way you look at it... in the current system there is an imbalance.
LOL I get what you're saying foodstuffs but if you look at it, philosophically I suppose, if you raise group A up to meet group B you are inherently bringing group B down to meet group A. Either way you look at it... in the current system there is an imbalance.
Technically, yes. My statement was a bit contradictory in itself, but the intent of it wasn't. Strange how these things work sometimes, philosophically speaking. :P
cant really make everyone happy, someone else will come to complain about balancing when a pp and a dwarf dominate when it is less reasonable to see a dwarf/pp dominate. it is more reasonable to see a duelist, dagger, archer, mage, tank dominates. it will only be a circle.
i never view an archer as a low dps pve toon, always the best. archer get to lv 80 really fast by solo
For a lvl 85 with absolutely top gear and all TW wards it is nothing impressive. Didn't watch (got bored with these movies long time ago), but friend told me it is like 2k crits.
Compare level 79/80 archer with basic gear to a level 79/80 dagger with basic gear or a level 79/80 nuker with basic gear and get a clue.
Stun shot NEVER lands. That's even assuming you get the shot off in time - it's so slow compared to what caster's can now do you are interrupted/tranced/dead/etc before you can even try. Everyone has armor/jewels now that make them uber vs. stun.
And many archers have -CON tats and get easily stunned by dwarves and knights and such.
Stun is not an archer's friend. And I'm talking about normal archers here, not the botted ones with LOLegit +18 stun OEs etc.
As EE the archer i can kill is only those who did not stun me BEFORE
If don't it's a transe/manaburn cycle til you get mage crit on Inquisitor ...:D
I can't understand an archer do not stun ...
@ Aghen : I trade popcorn for lasagnas and cookies
By the time an archer (especialy GS) can issue a stun, you'll have tranced him 3 or 4 times. Especially as EE.
Archers are at the bottom in Oly, nothing new with that. Whoever tries to argue against that is not playing the same game.
But in regard to general PvP, they're far from worthless. Of course they're no longer that 1-shot-everything class they used to be, but they're actually not too bad assist DDs and in mass PvP, they can stun quite a lot of ppl. Just let the other big DDs finish the job.
I found myself stunning lots of light/mages during siege with my lil 77 GS, the titan in my party just finished them after that.
I can't talk about the time we were overpowered, I wasn't playing back then. But I know we're no longer killers, we're assist, deal with it, learn to play your archer that way, you'll find yourself rewarded. ANd in PvE, especially raids, we're still pretty nice DDs no matter what.
Stun shot NEVER lands. That's even assuming you get the shot off in time - it's so slow compared to what caster's can now do you are interrupted/tranced/dead/etc before you can even try. Everyone has armor/jewels now that make them uber vs. stun.
And many archers have -CON tats and get easily stunned by dwarves and knights and such.
Stun is not an archer's friend. And I'm talking about normal archers here, not the botted ones with LOLegit +18 stun OEs etc.
You can get the same jewels that make your stun ubber... about the -con, well its your option everybody knows that -con will your stun resistence so make your choice and be happy.
As EE the archer i can kill is only those who did not stun me BEFORE
If don't it's a transe/manaburn cycle til you get mage crit on Inquisitor ...:D
I can't understand an archer do not stun ...
@ Aghen : I trade popcorn for lasagnas and cookies
Get proper augment and use sleep. Casting stun takes 5-6 times as long as casting sleep + stun has base land rate of 40% and sleep has base land rate of 80%
As EE the archer i can kill is only those who did not stun me BEFORE
If don't it's a transe/manaburn cycle til you get mage crit on Inquisitor ...:D
I can't understand an archer do not stun ...
@ Aghen : I trade popcorn for lasagnas and cookies
lol... my experience as SR against EE in oly is that... i didnt even have time to shot a single arrow (dont even think of stun shot) before i was slept, mana burned, slept, mana burned, slept, nuked, slept mana burned.... slept slept slept, nuked,... see where i'm going?
pretty much only times i win in oly is against boxes or when i get really lucky and fight ppl that are low lvl and undergeared as myself XD
lol... my experience as SR against EE in oly is that... i didnt even have time to shot a single arrow (dont even think of stun shot) before i was slept, mana burned, slept, mana burned, slept, nuked, slept mana burned.... slept slept slept, nuked,... see where i'm going?
Something tells me you don't have a mental shield stick :rolleyes:
high +chance enchant Trance is pretty dangerous and mental shield won't be enough. if there's really a dangerous EE in oly it's well worth to invest in NM armor
If an archer cannot kill anyone of equal level on a battlefield i do not know how you think they are dd's.
If i crit for 1k its a lot nowadays. Fully buffed at 78 with cov and bd dances i think hardest i hit a Nuker that was 79 for was 1200, care to explain ?
If they had the archer resist dance and song up it would of been 250. Archers are suppose to be deadly and they aren't. There is no where to xp them and they haven't gotten a new skill since archery almost 2 years ago.
So its not just overpowered but its been nerfed into the ground. Olympiad nevermind cause they cannot beat anyone in it now that the stadium is too small to kite anymore.
you need better gear maybe? And I seem to recall I hit you for 8k crit at one of the first tw and I was not frenzyed
Compare level 79/80 archer with basic gear to a level 79/80 dagger with basic gear or a level 79/80 nuker with basic gear and get a clue.
you are starting to get the point. the thing about archers is that they are the most "boostable" class, for example buffs that increase critical hit power (all stackable):
archer: death whisper (+35%), cov (+20%), dance of fire (+35%), blessing of queen (+25%), aq (+15%), baium (+15%)
nuker: pow (+20%)
crit rate cap:
archer: 50%
nuker: 20%
debuffs increasing damage:
archer: hex, real target, critical wound
nuker: gloom
etc
you are starting to get the point. the thing about archers is that they are the most "boostable" class, for example buffs that increase critical hit power (all stackable):
archer: death whisper (+35%), cov (+20%), dance of fire (+35%), blessing of queen (+25%), aq (+15%), baium (+15%)
nuker: pow (+20%)
crit rate cap:
archer: 50%
nuker: 20%
debuffs increasing damage:
archer: hex, real target, critical wound
nuker: gloom
etc
All stackable boost works for any physical damage class. Only debuf "real target" is dedicated for archery.
I think better explanation of archer is a class whic makes biggest (alomost biggest) constant non skill damage per time.
Maybe if we choose small time frame (3sec) destro would make more damage, but because archers usually do not need to run when attacking other targets, they do more damage per bigger time frame (for example 1min).
Thats one side, another side is that all knight classes have resistance against, many classes wear shields (don't know why so many arrows are blocked by shield). There are many buffs which decrease archer damage.
I have spectral dancer main, phantom ranger sub (almost same level) and another abyss walker sub. I clearly see difference between all class. At open area ranger is better in some cases, at oly archer for mine SD are peace of cake (unless they are 3+lvl than me). And abyss walker is better in all situatons than both.
your all ignoring one part of discussion. there is no where for an archer to effectively level as an "Archer" from 78 - 81. Yes u can level but you have to aoe or use a dagger.
And the whole nuker needs a boxed toon, u honestly think anyone can xp effeciently past 61 without buffs? lol if you do with self buffs at 78 u might as just give up the game.
Archers are not suppose to be assisters, people are suppose to assit there targets. We are suppose to be as deadly as daggers = not better. Daggers kill at close range we kill at long range. Archer vs dagger fight is suppose to be a toss up if equal level but we know daggers own archers now.
Archers can no longer kill any class unless severly outleveling and gearing them. Also archers have not gotten a single skill to even make their class more fun since archery.
And nukers you forgeting about POW Wild Magic Empower Arance Power Bezerk and elightment if they are 81. And im not including their passives or gear because then they become haha good game unless you happen to have the right element on ur armour against that nuker. Nukers can insanly outdamge an archer head to head. + Archers can miss nukers dont.
PS No never ran out of mana at siege cause as a DE archer u dont live long enough for that to ever be a problem.
PSS Drob i had no buffs when I was dion castle.
PSSS I am not asking to be a one hit killer but why should I get one hit killed by every class they need to deboost the other classes if they want to keep archers at their levels. Give them an speed boost or something, no one but a dagger should catch a archer but we know thats not true too. If they were even halfway decent why dont u see only a handful of people playing archers in pvp clans now? or in xp groups?
Archers simply by design were always going to be a train wreck. When you're essentially a 2 button, uber high power class, you're just going to be very suceptible to balance changes. The Dance and Song gives a bit too much resistance though that's for sure.
On a side note bow damage needs to get nerfed big time. Bows should have a much lower maximum damage and Bow masteries should be far more important. Everyone and their mum carries a bow. It's kinda' stupid...
you guys remember when the common response to ppl complaining about being 1 hit by archers was "reroll or quit"?
Now, Archers being one shot are told to "reroll or quit", go figure. It's kinda funny really, there's been a population boost of Overlords on Bartz (not a grand boost mind you), but once those lose their current glamor (can't really call it glory) every one of those OLs will be here complaining and will be told to "reroll or quit".
"Archers are oneshotting me and there's nothing I can do!"
"Reroll or quit!"
"My Sorc's sleep nerf has made the class unplayable"
"Reroll or quit!"
"My SE/PP can no longer group because of WC"
"Reroll or quit!"
"Ok, I can level my healer with Inqui now, but I can't kill in pvp anymore because it was nerfed!"
"You're not a nuker dummy... Reroll or quit!"
"**** Kamaels are so OP cause (fill in the blank)!"
"Roll one of your own and (fill in the blank) against them instead... or quit!"
"My tank can't outdamage a Titan!"
"You're not a DD dummy... reroll or quit!"
"PP (fill in the blank)"
"Make a WC dummy!"
"Daggers (fill in the blank)"
"Hide or quit"
"Stupid NCSoft nerfed my I Win skills"
"Reroll or quit!"
"(Fill in the blank) Oly"
"Reroll or quit NOOB!"
"It's my turn to be OP dammit!"
"No, you have to wait for your turn like everyone else, so reroll or quit dammit!"
*12 months from now*
"PP are killing everyone even Kamaels, I'm rolling a PP!"
*6 months after that*
"I'm quitting if PPs aren't fixed!"
This really ought to be stickied, answers nearly everyone's questions about the game.
you are starting to get the point. the thing about archers is that they are the most "boostable" class, for example buffs that increase critical hit power (all stackable):
archer: death whisper (+35%), cov (+20%), dance of fire (+35%), blessing of queen (+25%), aq (+15%), baium (+15%)
nuker: pow (+20%)
crit rate cap:
archer: 50%
nuker: 20%
debuffs increasing damage:
archer: hex, real target, critical wound
nuker: gloom
etc
No you don't get the point.
Even after stacking everything archer is below average DD (vide: Troyz movies). Without top gear and level archer is useless though.
your all ignoring one part of discussion. there is no where for an archer to effectively level as an "Archer" from 78 - 81. Yes u can level but you have to aoe or use a dagger.
Find a const archer party and farm HB, so you can earn adena to get BJ's - after obtaining them you may eventually get invited to some clan... ;)
Archers are not suppose to be assisters, people are suppose to assit there targets.
LOL... This is what happens after 3.5 years of not need a tanker in party. Wake up kid, you ARE a SUPORTER DD, not a primary DD. Its cause archers think they must hit the mobs first with they'r longer range they screw up they'r chances of being in a party, at pvp nobody shall assist you cause you will need to make the first hit then run behind the melees that will take the aggro and then re-engage.
Most l2 archers sucks hard cause that 3.5y god mod don't teached them whats their place.
Exping to 81 isnt bad at all. The primary issue is that IoP was nerfed to the point where it is tough to solo there 76-78, although this is really your only solo choice. At 79 Mith mines is easy and much better exp than IoP.
You can try to find parties, but 99.9% of parties dont want an archer in group because the Aggro mod on an archer is astronomical (which really needs to be fixed). If im in a HB group and dont wait until the mob is at 80% he will run to me after 3 arrows every single time.
The primary issue with Archers in PVP is the inverse relationship in latter expansions between their Damage and their Survivability. In earlier chronicles it was quite easy to kill before you were touched. Now with augments and such you are required to kill before you take 3 hits because you will die in 3. The problem is the damage output has not scaled so in many instances this isnt possible. Mass pvp notwithstanding, one on one, the only way to win is to land 2 lucky crits against a robe, or fight an undergeared, lower leveled, superior class.
Unfortunately archers have no "burst" dps. The time it takes to cast Double shot, even enchanted for Element, is far less efficient than sinking 3 normal arrows. If i am exping in mith mines and get myself into trouble with summons, i have zero options for burst dps, its UE and pray. Same with oly. Auto attack and pray. And base Stun rate is around 44% so this is not a viable tool in oly. Sure it will land but it will only land against toons that you can easily kill without stunning.
So the easy way to fix archers!! Create some form of burst skill DPS that is not resistable by archery resist buffs and songs. And the cast has to be very short not dissimilar to hex.
Now, Archers being one shot are told to "reroll or quit", go figure. It's kinda funny really, there's been a population boost of Overlords on Bartz (not a grand boost mind you), but once those lose their current glamor (can't really call it glory) every one of those OLs will be here complaining and will be told to "reroll or quit".
"Archers are oneshotting me and there's nothing I can do!"
"Reroll or quit!"
"My Sorc's sleep nerf has made the class unplayable"
"Reroll or quit!"
"My SE/PP can no longer group because of WC"
"Reroll or quit!"
"Ok, I can level my healer with Inqui now, but I can't kill in pvp anymore because it was nerfed!"
"You're not a nuker dummy... Reroll or quit!"
"**** Kamaels are so OP cause (fill in the blank)!"
"Roll one of your own and (fill in the blank) against them instead... or quit!"
"My tank can't outdamage a Titan!"
"You're not a DD dummy... reroll or quit!"
"PP (fill in the blank)"
"Make a WC dummy!"
"Daggers (fill in the blank)"
"Hide or quit"
"Stupid NCSoft nerfed my I Win skills"
"Reroll or quit!"
"(Fill in the blank) Oly"
"Reroll or quit NOOB!"
"It's my turn to be OP dammit!"
"No, you have to wait for your turn like everyone else, so reroll or quit dammit!"
*12 months from now*
"PP are killing everyone even Kamaels, I'm rolling a PP!"
*6 months after that*
"I'm quitting if PPs aren't fixed!"
This really ought to be stickied, answers nearly everyone's questions about the game.
hahaa this is good, +1
Anyway, OT: I will die to an archer if they can land stun and keep me chain stunned. If not, they are very easy to kill yes. And don't forget, stun shot removes target at quite a high rate, even if it doesn't land. I did manage to kill an S80 GK in oly on a 76 MS, thanks to stun spam and target loss. But most of the time Archer skills are indeed too slow to be effective against many other classes. Nukers/Daggers can 1 or 2 shot you in a second. My AOE Stun Rush is instantaneous with no reuse, etc.
Archers are fine, from reading the OP posts I think his problem is more about being low level and having bad gear.
As far as leveling goes: you can easily duo varka with pp lvl 78 until 81-82 and get decent xp there. If you are a PR i dont see why you would need mana, just use BTM and hunt where herbs drop.
As far as pvp goes: believe it or not they actually balance archer for pvp. Hitting everyone for 5k like before was ridiculous and dumb. Now the archer still hits people for 5k, except you actually have to use your brain and know/find people who dont have your element and kill those first, and wait until the anti archer song/dance drop. Also look at who is getting cancel stick and hit those people too. You know... use your brain, not just 5k on every random target like before.
Also, if you have bad gear/enchants/level, you will get owned on every class nowdays. Doesnt matter what class, even kamael (stunlock and kill if its a bad kamael).
Oly: yes archer is bad, bust most servers have class base for archers.
Agreed .. archers are totally gimp..
The pure fact that a tank can hit an archer for more damage than an archer can hit a tank with a bow is pure madness..
Nothing wrong in this. Shields and heavy armors are designed to protect and tecnicaly not be pierced. So basicaly 2 people using the same weapon against one armor that can be pierced and the other that can't guess who will give more damage?
In the olympiad a tank can run to the middle of the arena and pull out a bow and totally own and archer...
So do titans, gk, wl, glads.
it a sad day when an archer gets beat with his own weapon by a charactor that wasnt designed for that weapon...
Theres no weapon designed at l2 anyone can use any weapon and win with it.
with the epics and high con of some of the toons it vertually makes an archers stun useless...
You are not suppoused to stun all classes.
my nuker was 79 and dualing an 81 or 82 archer in friendly battle..
his stun never landed on me once in 4 duals.. had arcana and one 15% stun resist epic on..
he has more epics then i did as well..
happens. He can simple just use + stun rate and OE his skills.
I guess they wanted to take archers out of the game and they have.. or at least made them pretty much a non factor..
In sieges you just dance and sing for resist and run over and one or two shot the archer parties first.. GG.
CHoose better your targets, use the terrain.
I use to have fun playing my archer.. now its a tedious grind that never ends..
Well, re-learn to play your class and you will have fun again.
atm NOBODY wants archers in a party.
its ALL about melee and VR.
they even complain about archers getting agro and dieing.
then u need to spend money on weapons that are not designed for you. A 150 pole or dagger.. sometimes both.. while you could be spending this money on better gear for you, making your toon usefull.
for raid bosses you by far the less needed class.. after they increased melee dmg and introduced stigma 1 melee party can kill a RB in less then 1 min.
Have anyone of you ever seen a RB with anyother resistance other then bow?
Why only bow resistance? lol thats racist!
if ur not 81+ with silent mind it gets worse.. cause ull need recharges. HE's are bit better cause they can 'body to mind'
ever worse if your 79- because of the stupid dmg penality.. all they want is "strong 80+ dd's"
in pvp we have become last targets.. i have never last so long.
all they go after is robes/daggers/doombringers.. the rest after those and then the archers.
but when they target you, you dont even have time to run.. ur probly down in 1/100000 secs.
in oly, if you dont have at least frint+zaken+oed stun dont even bother tring to stun anyone.. just snipe and normal hit hoping for crits.
an thats not when your opennent is not on top of you already before the fight starts.
skill wise, we have nothing usefull. at 79 archers get some stupid trigger skills that help you save ur in pve once in a while.
nukers get their overpowered slug/buster that comes after the strong vortex that dmgs and at same time debuffs you.
IMO something to start with to fix a bit:
Remove the range dmg reduction(30%+ in melee range) for archers classes.
Reduce Windstorm effect to 20% instead of 30%.
Give us Dash/UE lvl 2.
Give Busrt Shot a boost by removing its extreme high MP cost, adding a bit more power(its ridiculous as it is today) and a flame debuff effect chance. You know.. when you see in movies those archers with falming arrows they hit and burn what they touch.
Some kind of archery debuff (why not? daggers got all kinds.. hex/slow/sandstomb/crit wound/slowing bleed/etc..)
And my personal favorite:
Ranged VR!!! Like 2% back from bow hits.
I know this is kinda ing crazy.. but whats more crazy than using MP to shoot arrows? Or ocrs MP VR? haha
2 Places to level your archer from 78-81 which are great xp
Pagans Temple
Requires a holy bow and dark resist draconic armor
Can easily two shot all mobs
WC,BD,SWS,Bishop. Keep the bd and sws oop for insane xp
Imperial Tomb
Same setup
2 to 3 shot mobs
this place can be soloed with oop buffs or bring a trickster or another archer for extra dd.
Same buffer setup
Now maybe you dont have access to your own bd and sws to have oop but regardless you are leader of a clan you should have access to these toons in your clan. Make a party go hit stuff
It better xp bad quest. Pagans less xp but much better quest
As for the olympiad...Archers are terrible...But archers were always meant to be fully buffed to be good pvp toons. Archers never have done great damage without being fully buffed. In the oly we get basic buffs hence we have no chance as it should be imo. However there are still some toons we can beat if they arent properly geared.
IMO all ncsoft needs to do is 2 things to help archers for mass pvp and pve. Raise the crit cap and attack speed cap. I would love to have 2250 attack speed and 500+ crit with my bow.
atm NOBODY wants archers in a party.
its ALL about melee and VR.
they even complain about archers getting agro and dieing.
then u need to spend money on weapons that are not designed for you. A 150 pole or dagger.. sometimes both.. while you could be spending this money on better gear for you, making your toon usefull.
for raid bosses you by far the less needed class.. after they increased melee dmg and introduced stigma 1 melee party can kill a RB in less then 1 min.
Have anyone of you ever seen a RB with anyother resistance other then bow?
Why only bow resistance? lol thats racist!
if ur not 81+ with silent mind it gets worse.. cause ull need recharges. HE's are bit better cause they can 'body to mind'
ever worse if your 79- because of the stupid dmg penality.. all they want is "strong 80+ dd's"
in pvp we have become last targets.. i have never last so long.
all they go after is robes/daggers/doombringers.. the rest after those and then the archers.
but when they target you, you dont even have time to run.. ur probly down in 1/100000 secs.
in oly, if you dont have at least frint+zaken+oed stun dont even bother tring to stun anyone.. just snipe and normal hit hoping for crits.
an thats not when your opennent is not on top of you already before the fight starts.
skill wise, we have nothing usefull. at 79 archers get some stupid trigger skills that help you save ur in pve once in a while.
nukers get their overpowered slug/buster that comes after the strong vortex that dmgs and at same time debuffs you.
IMO something to start with to fix a bit:
Remove the range dmg reduction(30%+ in melee range) for archers classes.
Reduce Windstorm effect to 20% instead of 30%.
Give us Dash/UE lvl 2.
Give Busrt Shot a boost by removing its extreme high MP cost, adding a bit more power(its ridiculous as it is today) and a flame debuff effect chance. You know.. when you see in movies those archers with falming arrows they hit and burn what they touch.
Some kind of archery debuff (why not? daggers got all kinds.. hex/slow/sandstomb/crit wound/slowing bleed/etc..)
And my personal favorite:
Ranged VR!!! Like 2% back from bow hits.
I know this is kinda ing crazy.. but whats more crazy than using MP to shoot arrows? Or ocrs MP VR? haha
seriously... u made my day : a real QQ post from an archer. Archer had their chronicle already. U don't have any party? poor archer... do u know why there is so few OL, dorfs, summoners or PP?
U are the last target in pvp? rofl, u are really cry coz nobody wants to hit u first?
seriously... u made my day : a real QQ post from an archer. Archer had their chronicle already. U don't have any party? poor archer... do u know why there is so few OL, dorfs, summoners or PP?
U are the last target in pvp? rofl, u are really cry coz nobody wants to hit u first?
dude.. ur a dwarf! go qq about ur class.
dont qq about archers qqing in an archer qq thread.
2 Places to level your archer from 78-81 which are great xp
Pagans Temple
Requires a holy bow and dark resist draconic armor
Can easily two shot all mobs
WC,BD,SWS,Bishop. Keep the bd and sws oop for insane xp
Imperial Tomb
Same setup
2 to 3 shot mobs
this place can be soloed with oop buffs or bring a trickster or another archer for extra dd.
Same buffer setup
Now maybe you dont have access to your own bd and sws to have oop but regardless you are leader of a clan you should have access to these toons in your clan. Make a party go hit stuff
It better xp bad quest. Pagans less xp but much better quest
As for the olympiad...Archers are terrible...But archers were always meant to be fully buffed to be good pvp toons. Archers never have done great damage without being fully buffed. In the oly we get basic buffs hence we have no chance as it should be imo. However there are still some toons we can beat if they arent properly geared.
IMO all ncsoft needs to do is 2 things to help archers for mass pvp and pve. Raise the crit cap and attack speed cap. I would love to have 2250 attack speed and 500+ crit with my bow.
Great advice. Buy 4 more accounts, level 4 support classes..and you can level your archer!!
Great advice. Buy 4 more accounts, level 4 support classes..and you can level your archer!!
u dont have these classes in your clan? Im sorry you dont have access to these toons. I do. If you arent in a clan you arent playing the game the way it was meant to be played
i play sagi as main, and i can say that i suck in pvp and i think that all the ppl that played archer in my clan rerolled, except me. (im just stubborn as hell and i love it :))
imo, if u have epics and some good bow u can own preatty good in pvp. i was crited for 4.5k to over 8k by the curent sagi hero on franz (he wasn't hero that time). so my point is tha archers do damage, but all u need is good gear to do that and to know to play that class (not everyone does, yes it's lol, but not everyone does).
as for oly, when we do oly events, i do happen to win some matches, w/o gettin feeded.
one thing that i actually i hate is the crit on double shot skill: i was critin in double shot for 4.1k while hitin a npc (just for test), normal hit of double shot was arround 2.5k and normal hit crit was 4.5k :O. imo if it's a skill crit it should hit harder then a normal crit, it actually force u not to use skills at all in pvp (had double shot +8 on duel), yes laugh of me, but i have holy on bow and i can't make it atm a diff element :/
anyway, i really wanna see some boost, donno what, but something that wont require top gear do be a valuable dd in mass pvp (even with full suport)...
p.s. don't nerf others, just give us something... and not at **** lv 83 or more, cuz im human not **** bot :/
anyway, i really wanna see some boost, donno what, but something that wont require top gear do be a valuable dd in mass pvp (even with full suport)...
p.s. don't nerf others, just give us something... and not at **** lv 83 or more, cuz im human not **** bot :/
like i sugested, and i think my suggestions rock :D
Remove the range dmg reduction(30%+ in melee range) for archers classes.
Reduce Windstorm effect to 20% instead of 30%.
Give us Dash/UE lvl 2.
Give Busrt Shot a boost by removing its extreme high MP cost, adding a bit more power(its ridiculous as it is today) and a flame debuff effect chance. You know.. when you see in movies those archers with falming arrows they hit and burn what they touch.
Some kind of archery debuff (why not? daggers got all kinds.. hex/slow/sandstomb/crit wound/slowing bleed/etc..)
And my personal favorite:
Ranged VR!!! Like 2% back from bow hits. PP only :D
I know this is kinda ing crazy.. but whats more crazy than using MP to shoot arrows? Or ocrs MP VR? haha
Remove the range dmg reduction(30%+ in melee range) for archers classes.
Reduce Windstorm effect to 20% instead of 30%.
Give us Dash/UE lvl 2.
Give Busrt Shot a boost by removing its extreme high MP cost, adding a bit more power(its ridiculous as it is today) and a flame debuff effect chance. You know.. when you see in movies those archers with falming arrows they hit and burn what they touch.
Some kind of archery debuff (why not? daggers got all kinds.. hex/slow/sandstomb/crit wound/slowing bleed/etc..)
And my personal favorite:
Ranged VR!!! Like 2% back from bow hits.
I know this is kinda ing crazy.. but whats more crazy than using MP to shoot arrows? Or ocrs MP VR? haha
There is an archery debuff in game, it's called Real Target and Tricksters have it. Ofc that's no use to any other archer in game unless he's partied with one. So give all archers Real Target and give Trickster stun shot. And all the other changes suggested sound reasonable considering the current state of archers.
like i sugested, and i think my suggestions rock :D
Remove the range dmg reduction(30%+ in melee range) for archers classes.
Reduce Windstorm effect to 20% instead of 30%.
Give us Dash/UE lvl 2.
Give Busrt Shot a boost by removing its extreme high MP cost, adding a bit more power(its ridiculous as it is today) and a flame debuff effect chance. You know.. when you see in movies those archers with falming arrows they hit and burn what they touch.
Some kind of archery debuff (why not? daggers got all kinds.. hex/slow/sandstomb/crit wound/slowing bleed/etc..)
And my personal favorite:
Ranged VR!!! Like 2% back from bow hits. PP only :D
I know this is kinda ing crazy.. but whats more crazy than using MP to shoot arrows? Or ocrs MP VR? haha
ue lvl 2 i'm ok
dash ... only he have dash and they good enough.
archery debuff yeah would be plow.
mmm real 81+ skills ... would be cool too. to be honest their seven arrow and arrow rain or any kind are a joke.
seven arrow : 20seconds to cast even full buff and enemy still alive that means a sps can still 2 shot you.
range vr, i'm against. they should put it like double shot, ultra fast
lower dance of windstorm, i'm ok with that, giving 30 damage on a nuker is kinda bad while he 2 shot you.
they should add for exemple something like enlightment for archer, like a buff that last 20seconds or a bit more that increase archers capacity. (i mean atk speed, speed, crit rate/power/ patk but lower pdef/mdef)
Tell me, against which class can archer win on olympiad?
just do closed.
and tbh archers can win against lot of classes: titans/others archers/daggers/dwarf/nukers/summoners.
just oe your stun to +15+++ and they all down.
and tbh archers can win against lot of classes: titans/others archers/daggers/dwarf/nukers/summoners.
just oe your stun to +15+++ and they all down.
no
Archer cannot beat a nuker in olympiad unless the nuker sux and is not 79
Can't do archer closed if there is only 3 or so active archers of your class on the server lol
No one plays archers so cannot do closed.
I would be happy with skills like a Bleed shot or a root shot or flame shot, archers in other games can have special arrows why cant they in L2?]
Also fix the range on our skills, we have a 900 range stun shot but after buffs our normal attack range is 1200, it gimps us to use our specials. Also a PR has hex and power break but i have to be in 450 range to use it, who are the mental midgets who thought of this stuff?
GS are so to be the magical archers with many debuffs and high patk but low hp. Now we just got low hp lol
Also fix the range on our skills, we have a 900 range stun shot but after buffs our normal attack range is 1200, it gimps us to use our specials. Also a PR has hex and power break but i have to be in 450 range to use it, who are the mental midgets who thought of this stuff?
agreed
GS are so to be the magical archers with many debuffs and high patk but low hp. Now we just got low hp lol
when do u expect to use these debuffs? in pve? whats the point...in pvp? you dont participate so doesnt matter...in class based? they are used
just do closed.
and tbh archers can win against lot of classes: titans/others archers/daggers/dwarf/nukers/summoners.
just oe your stun to +15+++ and they all down.
titans forget about it. stun is never going to land.
daggers.....a good dagger will never allow u to use stun shot...and if u do land stun then yes a dagger can be beat...i suggest you be very high level if u ever hope to have a chance against any dagger that is abouve 80
dwarf....hamstring gg
nukers....if stun lands yes..otherwise 2 shot
summoners....no chance at all ever against anyone but a necro
incorrect...perhaps u are using the buff that severely gimps your attack speed.....Stun shot nukers over and over until they die
If a nuker has Zaken and frintessa stun is not likely to land unless you have +15 stun. Also you would know GS have lower attack speed the SAG or MS when it comes to skill reuse. MS have faster attack speed and a self buff to increase attack speed and SAG have a self buff to reduce reload time on skills.
there are many active prs on your server. And cb goes on every month
cb sr pr and he every month..only non cb is trickster
There are not many active PRS I have no clue what server you play on. There is Me, Crazy, Kaiser and Crv1nus. I usually place 3rd every month behind Kaiser and Crazy which are fed by other people. I participated in close 1 month and I refuse to do it again after the other GS were just alts of the two main clan GS's.
First GS dont get burst shot or Arrow rain. Stun and Hamstring we get, evade is not going to do much in grand scheme 6 evasion don't help you against skills being used on you. So you have no clue what your talking about again.
when do u expect to use these debuffs? in pve? whats the point...in pvp? you dont participate so doesnt matter...in class based? they are used
You know debuffs work really well in pvp, if i lowered someone's pdef by 30% that makes a major difference or a destroyers patk 30% or are you that naive?
In the future before talking to someone who has played an archer for 5 years get your comments and facts straight.
If a nuker has Zaken and frintessa stun is not likely to land unless you have +15 stun. Also you would know GS have lower attack speed the SAG or MS when it comes to skill reuse. MS have faster attack speed and a self buff to increase attack speed and SAG have a self buff to reduce reload time on skills. i suggest u get +15 stun shot then....its not hard..mine is +25
There are not many active PRS I have no clue what server you play on. There is Me, Crazy, Kaiser and Crv1nus. I usually place 3rd every month behind Kaiser and Crazy which are fed by other people. I participated in close 1 month and I refuse to do it again after the other GS were just alts of the two main clan GS's.there are more than 5 just in poot....more in immos...more in emo....more in og....there were 10 places in last months olympiad and you finished 7th. nice try
First GS dont get burst shot or Arrow rain. Stun and Hamstring we get, evade is not going to do much in grand scheme 6 evasion don't help you against skills being used on you. So you have no clue what your talking about again.correct u get other skills like hex. 6 evasion doesnt help? haha are u serious? you sir have just confirmed you know nothing about evasion
You know debuffs work really well in pvp, if i lowered someone's pdef by 30% that makes a major difference or a destroyers patk 30% or are you that naive?really who is it going to land on? you think yur unplussed skills are going to land on anyone with buffs in pvp? if you are talking 1v1 ok....even then a destroyer is going to two shot u
In the future before talking to someone who has played an archer for 5 years get your comments and facts straight.
I wouldnt classify someone who sits in town selling katanas all day as an archer. Again you have proved you know nothing about the class....still cant believe your comment about evasion..haha priceless
i suggest u get +15 stun shot then....its not hard..mine is +25
Oh +25 bot much? Yea sorry getting a +25 stun shot just means you botted your off try again
there are more than 5 just in poot....more in immos...more in emo....more in og....there were 10 places in last months olympiad and you finished 7th. nice try
I only did my min 9 matches this month first time I finished out of the top 3 in over a year but heck you no more. Please name all the Main non bot train GS please Ill wait.
correct u get other skills like hex. 6 evasion doesnt help? haha are u serious? you sir have just confirmed you know nothing about evasion
Oh i forgot evasion helps you avoid nukes stun root glad skills and destroyer skills. You just confirmed you have no idea how little evasion works in pvp. A dagger equal level to a archer has 15 higher evasion anyway, so 6 more evasion still doesn't even put you close to them.
really who is it going to land on? you think yur unplussed skills are going to land on anyone with buffs in pvp? if you are talking 1v1 ok....even then a destroyer is going to two shot u
your right I need to bot more hook me up with a good program?
I wouldnt classify someone who sits in town selling katanas all day as an archer. Again you have proved you know nothing about the class....still cant believe your comment about evasion..haha priceless
Selling Katanas, you do realize that was almost 5 years ago prior to you even playing the game so how can you even comment about it? Want to come up with some new material?
SlyCutterOh +25 bot much? Yea sorry getting a +25 stun shot just means you botted your off try again
+25 stun means u bot? Ever heard of mastery books? There is a reason they are in the game.
I only did my min 9 matches this month first time I finished out of the top 3 in over a year but heck you no more. Please name all the Main non bot train GS please Ill wait.
i dont know who bots or who doesnt nor do i care....you just claimed there is 4 active...clearly there is much much more.
Oh i forgot evasion helps you avoid nukes stun root glad skills and destroyer skills. You just confirmed you have no idea how little evasion works in pvp. A dagger equal level to a archer has 15 higher evasion anyway, so 6 more evasion still doesn't even put you close to them.
you mean to tell me u dont evade skills? really? no a dagger of equal level doesnt have 15 higher evasion....try enchanting your skills a little...now you are talking about 6 evasion only against dagger...comeon.
your right I need to bot more hook me up with a good program?
sorry i dont know of such programs. I have been playing over 5 years and if you cant reach my level over the same amount of time i feel sorry for you.
Selling Katanas, you do realize that was almost 5 years ago prior to you even playing the game so how can you even comment about it? Want to come up with some new material?
almost ...sorry no....again my characters birthdates are all over 5 years sly....dont get so upset over a game. perhaps you should just study it more....its not as bad as you make it out to be.
+25 stun means u bot? Ever heard of mastery books? There is a reason they are in the game.
Mastery book is 60 - 70 mil, say you only use it to go from 10 - 25 that 15 books or about a billion adena, sure let just pull that out of my ebay account, and that is to mean every single one works which is not possible so your talking about at least 25 - 30 books.
i dont know who bots or who doesnt nor do i care....you just claimed there is 4 active...clearly there is much much more.
3 of the people who placed above me are alts, that is like saying everyone in the top for SD or another class is all live toons.
you mean to tell me u dont evade skills? really? no a dagger of equal level doesnt have 15 higher evasion....try enchanting your skills a little...now you are talking about 6 evasion only against dagger...comeon.
no you don't evade skills. I also mention nukes being rooted and stunned. All things evasion does not do for you for. You really need to read better
sorry i dont know of such programs. I have been playing over 5 years and if you cant reach my level over the same amount of time i feel sorry for you.
oh you played for 5 years, but just recently registered for the forums. Good try, if your so uber and high level u would of by accident registered sometime in the last 5 years.
almost ...sorry no....again my characters birthdates are all over 5 years sly....dont get so upset over a game. perhaps you should just study it more....its not as bad as you make it out to be.
goodbyebluesky
Mastery book is 60 - 70 mil, say you only use it to go from 10 - 25 that 15 books or about a billion adena, sure let just pull that out of my ebay account, and that is to mean every single one works which is not possible so your talking about at least 25 - 30 books.
first of all why in the world would i use a mastery book to go from 10-25? U cant be serious. I only use mastery book when the success % drops below 68%. I used mastery books to go from 16-25 and i failed 3. Why would i need to ebay. this game is so easy to make money. Dont try to belittle others due to your ineptitude in this game please.
@and that means what? I see 5 live PRs in rune right now.....crazymind, kaiser, and you are not in rune
no you don't evade skills. really? you dont evade skills? how long have you been playing this game?
oh you played for 5 years, but just recently registered for the forums. Good try, if your so uber and high level u would of by accident registered sometime in the last 5 years.nah i registered this toon for my lil one. She likes to read about the game. I really shouldnt post on her account but oh well. I dont even remember the pword to my original account here anyway. And yes Sly i could tell you many things about your failures in this game to show you i have been playing over 5 years
just cause your a DE with a bow does not make your a GS, especially not a main.
I have 2 GS in my clan that are subs should I count them too?
And you can't remember your password? You do realize your password and login are the same as your game password and login, do you not login into game? lol
And to only failing three times lol You must have some great korean luck because thats better then most in this game.
I talked to Ranadin about this and he agrees its pointless to argue with know it nothings.
SlyCutterjust cause your a DE with a bow does not make your a GS, especially not a main.
I have 2 GS in my clan that are subs should I count them too?
Sly im talking about mains. I apparently know these toons...you of course do not becuase you dont participate in end game content or pvp with the main clans on the server.
And you can't remember your password? You do realize your password and login are the same as your game password and login, do you not login into game? lol
correct i didnt know which is why i created this name for my lil one and me.
And to only failing three times lol You must have some great korean luck because thats better then most in this game.
and is that my problem that i am lucky? What if it took me 25 books? It still doesnt dent my cash flow lol. and BTW i didnt need to buy any of my books. you once again do not understand the game
I talked to Ranadin about this and he agrees its pointless to argue with know it nothings.
oh you talked to ranadin? another person who doesnt participate in end game content? Sly it is painfully obvious you know nothing about your class. You dont even know that you can evade skills. You dont know what evasion means. You dont know how to properly xp. You dont know where to xp. do i need to go on. I gave you some helpful tips in this thread perhaps you should try them out.
Heres a tip on books. Why dont you ask Ranadin how he got all his books.
Sly im talking about mains. I apparently know these toons...you of course do not becuase you dont participate in end game content or pvp with the main clans on the server.
correct i didnt know which is why i created this name for my lil one and me.
and is that my problem that i am lucky? What if it took me 25 books? It still doesnt dent my cash flow lol. and BTW i didnt need to buy any of my books. you once again do not understand the game
oh you talked to ranadin? another person who doesnt participate in end game content? Sly it is painfully obvious you know nothing about your class. You dont even know that you can evade skills. You dont know what evasion means. You dont know how to properly xp. You dont know where to xp. do i need to go on. I gave you some helpful tips in this thread perhaps you should try them out.
Heres a tip on books. Why dont you ask Ranadin how he got all his books.
now that I know who you are its not worth arguing with you.... Same idiot you have been for 5 years. Why don't you quit again.
goodbyebluesky
Mastery book is 60 - 70 mil, say you only use it to go from 10 - 25 that 15 books or about a billion adena, sure let just pull that out of my ebay account, and that is to mean every single one works which is not possible so your talking about at least 25 - 30 books.
??? if you have a castle, just go every 4 hours in CI = 350 (arround) knight epaulette, farming fortress helps too..
Ultimate Evasion does indeed evade skills, but unfortunately archers still only have level 1 of that skill.
archers have chance to kill many classes but they have to be able to land stun, and if they don't they can't win; and because they are dependent on landing only that one skill they do poorly in open oly in general because it's too random whether they can win or not.
i dont know who bots or who doesnt nor do i care....you just claimed there is 4 active...clearly there is much much more.
sorry i dont know of such programs. I have been playing over 5 years and if you cant reach my level over the same amount of time i feel sorry for you.there are only two GS mains in p00t atm. it's true it's not a very common class on Devianne. although Sly couldn't compete in closed anyway.
but really hilarious you have the gall to come here and state that you "don't know of such programs". i know who bots and it is DEFINITELY you.
You dont know how to properly xp. You dont know where to xp.
xp according to you is run your own archer train afk in Hellbound 24/7 until you get lvl 84. yea, real cute coming to official forums telling people they don't know how to "properly" xp lol.
??? if you have a castle, just go every 4 hours in CI = 350 (arround) knight epaulette, farming fortress helps too..
anyway this is true, I can't afford to buy those either but if I do CI fairly often I can save up enough to get a mastery book every so often and get an important skill up, even if slowly.
but really hilarious you have the gall to come here and state that you "don't know of such programs". i know who bots and it is DEFINITELY you.
lol you have no idea what i do. thats like me saying oh yeah well i know who bots and its definitely you! Arent you the one who was Autologging out in silent valley....see how that works?
xp according to you is run your own archer train afk in Hellbound 24/7 until you get lvl 84. yea, real cute coming to official forums telling people they don't know how to "properly" xp lol.
im sorry but i dont know what you are talking about. go back and read the thread. I told sly where to xp. these are the places i xp. and how in the world would i xp 24/7. sorry i just dont have that kind of time. 5 -6 hrs a day is good enough for me.
if you knew anything about sly you would know he has always complained about us being able to xp better than him. its why we were always higher level because we put together the right parties for the right xp spots.. perhaps if he didnt have so many alts maybe he would be 85 and 100% and not call everyone botters who are higher level.
we all know who you are, should I post the Screenshots you posted on blah of your zoomhack and bot program?
Or are you done with im better then you on the offical forums. Just so you know they will ban your account for what you say here so tread lightly little one.
And i have some of your former clan members in my alliance and clan so I know exactly what your all about.
Arent you the one who was Autologging out in silent valley....see how that works?
im sorry but i dont know what you are talking about. go back and read the thread. I told sly where to xp. these are the places i xp. and how in the world would i xp 24/7. sorry i just dont have that kind of time. 5 -6 hrs a day is good enough for me.
if you knew anything about sly you would know he has always complained about us being able to xp better than him. its why we were always higher level because we put together the right parties for the right xp spots.. perhaps if he didnt have so many alts maybe he would be 85 and 100% and not call everyone botters who are higher level.
I know exactly who you are: MJ aka "theoriginal" the MS, and I've seen you and your bot party while they were all tagged Fate clan at their HB xp spot many times with my own eyes. "goodbyebluesky" is your Trickster from that train. Immos must be really boring if the best thing you can do to entertain yourself is come on official forums and be a complete hypocrit in front of everyone.
As for myself, Sabian heard from other people about some DB in p00t who forcelogged, it wasn't me but I'm pretty sure I know exactly who it is, he just thinks it is me because I'm the same class as that guy. I haven't xped in SV seriously in months, nor was I in clan for the last several months, and again, good luck finding me afk or autologging to anything anyway. And if anyone has any doubt, make sure you flag on me plz and I'll show you just how afk I really am.
Sly isn't higher level because he doesn't bot and doesn't xp much.
I agree with some of the things were posted in this thread and not so much with with others. But this thread inspired me enough to want to make an account to post with the hopes maybe someone from NC actually read this and care enough to collect some suggestions.
for the love of god, add some incentive so players will actually want to OE some skills:
dead eye. it's a decent skill with no point of OE. what's the point of adding 3 patk per OE when you have 4K+ patk pvp buffed. Add decrease penalty so we can reduce the attack speed penalty.
nc gave some love to Sagis with snipe - decrease penalty, doomcryers got CoV - decrease penalty, tanks have UD - decrease penalty. Do you hate PR's that much? i am sure SRs could enjoy a decrease penalty oe option for their own skill (forgot the name)
archery: it's a 78 skill it could use a new option with a little more incentive than a few more patk per enchant, maybe range increase
bringing the range of physical specials to the range of physical attack also makes sense.
i would love to get the evasion oe option on run speed passive as SR's do as well.
I agree with some of the things were posted in this thread and not so much with with others. But this thread inspired me enough to want to make an account to post with the hopes maybe someone from NC actually read this and care enough to collect some suggestions.
for the love of god, add some incentive so players will actually want to OE some skills:
dead eye. it's a decent skill with no point of OE. what's the point of adding 3 patk per OE when you have 4K+ patk pvp buffed. Add decrease penalty so we can reduce the attack speed penalty.
nc gave some love to Sagis with snipe - decrease penalty, doomcryers got CoV - decrease penalty, tanks have UD - decrease penalty. Do you hate PR's that much? i am sure SRs could enjoy a decrease penalty oe option for their own skill (forgot the name)
archery: it's a 78 skill it could use a new option with a little more incentive than a few more patk per enchant, maybe range increase
bringing the range of physical specials to the range of physical attack also makes sense.
i would love to get the evasion oe option on run speed passive as SR's do as well.
You mean adding between 0 and 1 patk for every OE level of Deadeye over +6 is useless? Lol i wasted SP taking it to 10 hoping for a tier increase and added zero from 9 to 10. It was awsome!
Archery...3 patk for 1.2m SP another gem. Unfortunately there are only a handfull of GS skills even worth OEing. I actually have more options on my SE now!
Stun shot - unlimited
Deadeye - +6 caps it for the most part
Archery Mastery - 6 patk per its half decent
Armor mastery - Evasion. +1 evasion for the first...after that its useless.
Quickstep - +1 Speed for the first and after that its useless.
Skill attacks for Element - Useful until Freya then completely useless. Sure you can + pvp them but the cast time is too long to make them a viable improvement over normal melee.
Hex + chance - useless in pve as you one and two shot 1x mobs. Useless in PVP as the range is like 450. If you get in range to use it you are most likely dead. Mass pvp you will never be in range.
Hamstring and lethal shot - cast time far too long to be of any use in pvp. not enough damage PVE.
Freezing Strike Chance - cast time is far too long again to be effective in solo pvp and mass pvp youll never be in range.
there are tons of buffs with useless OE options, as the game developed they were left behind.
Take mental shield for example, why should it not get a +Effectiveness option? with so many mental debuffs in game which can be OE'd for power or chance, what good is +time or +cost for mental shield really? Resist shock gets +effectiveness... Decrease weight is another one, it would at least be more meaningful to have a decrease weight OE option for effectiveness that actually increased the 9000 weight limit bonus, compared +cost and +time so you can carry more pots in pvp
The list goes on and on. Oh, I humbly disagree on armor mastery for evasion (overall), hamstring chance (small scale/1v1) are actually pretty nice options for the purpose they serve. They make a difference.
Armor mastery - Evasion. +1 evasion for the first...after that its useless.
have you tried to OE to +8? to +15? to +22?
Quickstep - +1 Speed for the first and after that its useless.
not so
Hex + chance - useless in pve as you one and two shot 1x mobs. Useless in PVP as the range is like 450. If you get in range to use it you are most likely dead. Mass pvp you will never be in range.
oly skill
Oeing your passives is where its at. Armor and bow masteries are quite usefull. Can OE bow until u get basically a baium ring
as for skills Stun and Double are musts...the rest are fun to play around with. Evade shot has good bonuses for OE
So much raging, and crying about archers here... The majority of the posters in this thread have no idea what they are talking about, let alone the purpose of an archer in PvP and PvE.
Everything state is a moot point from a botters perspective. Want to talk about how uber you are go to blah where botters talk.
These forums are for people that actually level their own toons.
this isnt how uber i am sly. Im sorry you are unable to 4 and 5 box like i am. The use of in game macros are a great tool as they have always been. So easy to press a macro to buff. to dance..to sing...to heal :/ I can share these macros with you if you like so that I can further be of assistance to u......these are facts helping people with their toons. I even helped you. Apparently you dont know where to level as an archer. I told you two great places.
Perhaps if you didnt level so many other toons which are in your sig you would be higher level on your main. Just a thought
this isnt how uber i am sly. Im sorry you are unable to 4 and 5 box like i am. The use of in game macros are a great tool as they have always been. So easy to press a macro to buff. to dance..to sing...to heal :/ I can share these macros with you if you like so that I can further be of assistance to u......these are facts helping people with their toons. I even helped you. Apparently you dont know where to level as an archer. I told you two great places.
Perhaps if you didnt level so many other toons which are in your sig you would be higher level on your main. Just a thought
I saw what wulf is talking about and the toon with name is botting in HB. You posted ingame walker screen shots on blah. You self admit to using the zoom **** and altering the client.... You think anything you say carries any credibility to an archer discussion?
I really hope you finally get banned. Then I can stop hearing from you how uber you are. I would be a lot higher level if I actually played more and wanted to buy a polearm or 5 box but thats not the point of the thread, you shouldn't have to 5 box to solo an archer or buy a polearm.
So much raging, and crying about archers here... The majority of the posters in this thread have no idea what they are talking about, let alone the purpose of an archer in PvP and PvE.
What's the point? These threads happen so often, and they never accomplish anything... a third of the thread is actually useful/valid information, a third of it is people who have no clue what they are talking about but think they are, and argue even though it's obvious they are lost, you get another third who accuse 90% of the posters of being botters/cheaters because they get called out... and on and on....
No one listens, most argue... and the majority are calling each other botters. Waste of time to contribute to a thread that is probably going to pop up again at some point in the future yet again.