for ******s, this is not QQ thread.
I would like to clearify about one gray area in game - it is 3d side soft usage radar, l2 control and so on. This software "helps" user to target enemies, drink potions and etc.
At first glance this software breaks eula and is reason for ban offense.
But as far as I know, 70%+ of top level clan players uses such software and there were no single ban.
So, is it allowed or not? Or it is not allowed but very hard to prove? Or it is not allowed and there is slight chance to be banned some day?
From one point of view you can see such software like beneficial extention of l2 client abilities. For example sound alarm on enemie in some range, which would be very nice in original game.
From other point of view it is disbalance in game, because radar uses have big advantage against legit players. I would say that kill/defend performance increases twice or even more.
To be honest, I still not using such software, but day after day I see less reason not to use it.
So, comments?
It can even pop a resist element potion when certain type of nuker come close to you, or (from what i heard) turn you front to dagger when he starts casting backstab... Not to mention stuff like retarged or "autoassist on the one that touched our healer" stuff ^^ Great fun indeed ;P
TBH just make an NC-signed version of this program, call it "extension" and put on an official website for download.
no grey area there
and yeah i know ppl who have been banned for it. not exactly hard since you start spamming CP pots the second your cp drops although if you exclude that option then i doubt NC would ever catch you :/
I do not see how this can be a "grey area". 3rd party software like this is completely ******ed and anybody who uses it should be banned from the internet for life. It is so much fun when you are in a siege in the BACK of a pile of your own people, target the enemy healer without even DOING anything yet and then you can already see the nukes flying in your direction because some alarm went off somewhere.
But yes, using such tools has become standard practice. "top" pvp clans even buy clan licenses. And people do not even keep it a big secret anymore - recently I was asked to join a party with people from a clan which has lots of wars up. I declined, saying "nah, I don't want to join, in case you get into pvp". The reply to that was "don't worry, we have radar, so we know it in time when somebody comes"...
I just do not see what the fun is in using this crap, it's like joining a multiplayer shooter, activating god mode and killing everybody else in the game. You do not win because you're good, you win because you cheat.
Maybe it is also an arms race, one side starts using it and the other side feels that it is necessary to use it, too, to keep up.
no grey area there
and yeah i know ppl who have been banned for it. not exactly hard since you start spamming CP pots the second your cp drops although if you exclude that option then i doubt NC would ever catch you :/
I know only one baned, he was so dumb (or ignorance) to use such software in oly and to use hide ****.
Thats why I have said gray area. Some "functions" are definetelly "banable offence" because somebody was baned because of this. But other uses that software with fear.
Even at "uber pvp" videos you can see how fast are removed not needed buffs, or how non stop are spammed CP potions.
Hide they can detect and ban
Potspamming, Targetting, whatever, is not as easy to detect. Anybody with a nostromo can push a button and start potspamming, how can you tell if the person is on nostromo or a radar?
While some of the functions sound nice (****, why can't L2 have such a nice API like EVE Online (http://www.eveonline.com/api/doc/) to help clan leaders organising their people?), usage of such tool is a bannable offence. Period.
Maybe it is also an arms race, one side starts using it and the other side feels that it is necessary to use it, too, to keep up.
This is an unfortunate side effect. There are people who are otherwise legit but now feel the need to use such programs simply to compete in pvp but won't use them in pve. Cheating is cheating though so it's hard for me to care when those "otherwise legit" get banned.
Any kind of **** of the game files is prohibited and bannable. Whether or not people actually get banned for using them is a different matter, however if no one reports the people using them then no one will be banned. And for those who don't know, you may not use the Report Bot Button to report wartags BUT you can use the ingame petition system to report wartag bots. The GMs will tell you to use the Button instead so you'll have to tell the GM in your first petition that you're at war with the clan that harbors the person you're reporting and thus can't use the button. A clannie tried to tell a GM about a wartag bot through a petition, the GM said use the Button, the clannie said "I can't because we're at war", the GM said "I'll get right on it." Whether or not he "got right on it" I honestly don't know, and since I didn't read the petitions between the clannie and the GM I can only go by what the clannie said.
Hide they can detect and ban
Potspamming, Targetting, whatever, is not as easy to detect. Anybody with a nostromo can push a button and start potspamming, how can you tell if the person is on nostromo or a radar?
And to further your point, if I remember correctly what Spam said (I'm not quoting him here), because those keyboards don't **** anything they're not bannable, or perhaps more correctly, you're extremely unlikely to be banned just for using those keyboards.
I'm curious though, could the GMs go through the logs to figure out the difference between keyboards and hacks? Perhaps, if this is possible, even if the player can't determine the difference he should still report and allow the GMs to figure it out. But do we really need **** Hall Monitors? So where does one draw the line? I think unless it's clearly obvious then people shouldn't report.
I believe it is easy to detect but probably hard to prove.
Several detect examples:
1. buff removal speed. At these 3d soft buffs are removed at same second as they appear in buff list. For human it is need to hold Alt and left click on buff.
2. targeting:
a) target change after current target is dead
b) target type selection: for daggers first priority are robe users and so on
c) instant targeting of person by several damage dealers who targeted party healer - last siege I just made small test. Targeted on healer near siege zone, it was not enemy and not siege oponent. In no moment same clan dagger apear behind me waiting when I will flag. :)
d) also radar user knows when enemy using radar:
- healer runing through city and getting alarms that enemy targets him
- going out of some obstacle and gettin alarm that 10+ enemies targeted him which are away at 1000+ distance.
For human, mouse targeting have some kind of lag. When you click on target, this target appears as selected only after 1-3sec. Depending on lag.
3. cp drinking
4. knowing about enemy possition without seeing him - I have several videos when uber dagger runs deep inside IT and on some place puts on 15s buffs, runs around corner and vualia - enemy party is exping there.
5. anti back stab - healer always looking to enemy dagger
6. anti mirrage or target lock - I watched one movie, when dagger killed a whole party alone. It was nice movie, but at one place I find that this dager target was removed and in next frame same target was selected.
How to prove these I don't know. Maybe some infiltration of GMs into top clans, create situation which will prove of software usage.
6. anti mirrage or target lock - I watched one movie, when dagger killed a whole party alone. It was nice movie, but at one place I find that this dager target was removed and in next frame same target was selected.
This one can be done with the official client too most of the time - just spam or hold down the "attack" quickbar icon. Very useful against daggers and the like. :)
And to further your point, if I remember correctly what Spam said (I'm not quoting him here), because those keyboards don't **** anything they're not bannable, or perhaps more correctly, you're extremely unlikely to be banned just for using those keyboards.
Spam is no longer with us.
Frankly, I think it would be fair. However, the lack of consistency by NCsoft in following their own policies is disturbing.
They have no way of knowing. As for the rest of the debate: I think it sucks because it essentially automates pvp. Then any level of skill or coordination takes a back seat to who has the best ini file.
Again, most of these programs would be very hard to detect. They're just intercepting the packets coming from the server, and sending back a packet identical to what your client would have (just doing it a lot faster than you could manually entering commands/pressing buttons). So kinda hard to blame NcSoft here. An IP ban of Russia would be a step in the right direction though :D
Just to clean up a confusion: You can detect if someone is CP spamming with hardware help (like Nostromo) or with a cheating program. For one, the hardware doesn't know when to stop, it can't read your screen (or your data packets). Also, the basic truth is, the timings of the hardware-generated key strokes via their device driver are, and always will be, statistically different from those generated by other means. It's just a matter of getting people who understand statistics to analyse the data streams properly. And it's not like NCSoft couldn't get hold on both tools to compare in their lab if they cared.
Just to clean up a confusion: You can detect if someone is CP spamming with hardware help (like Nostromo) or with a cheating program. For one, the hardware doesn't know when to stop, it can't read your screen (or your data packets). Also, the basic truth is, the timings of the hardware-generated key strokes via their device driver are, and always will be, statistically different from those generated by other means. It's just a matter of getting people who understand statistics to analyse the data streams properly. And it's not like NCSoft couldn't get hold on both tools to compare in their lab if they cared.
Yea they could go through all the logs line by line, but even then it's prone to mistakes or misinterpretations. What are they going to do when the program's creator adds a feature to randomly use between 1-3 pots after your cp is full? Just for show :cool: This is quite difficult to stop unless they find a better way of stopping 3rd party apps from interacting with the client (which is way beyond my skill or knowledge lvl to speak on).
Yea they could go through all the logs line by line, but even then it's prone to mistakes or misinterpretations.
Or they could use this totally new invention I heard about, called "computers". I heard they are really good at going through huge data volumes if "programmed" correctly.
What are they going to do when the program's creator adds a feature to randomly use between 1-3 pots after your cp is full? Just for show :cool:
Nothing. The timings will still be different.
This is quite difficult to stop unless they find a better way of stopping 3rd party apps from interacting with the client (which is way beyond my skill or knowledge lvl to speak on).
Or they could use this totally new invention I heard about, called "computers". I heard they are really good at going through huge data volumes if "programmed" correctly.
"Correctly" is the key here. Correct handling of statistics is not for ordinary minds, especially as we are speaking about Korean random.
Or they could use this totally new invention I heard about, called "computers". I heard they are really good at going through huge data volumes if "programmed" correctly.
Yea no kidding they'll use computers :rolleyes: That doesn't change the fact each line of their data logs is going to have to be scanned looking for that info. Look, if they can find a way to stop it then great, and if your statement about looking for the timing is workable then even better.
Pardon me if I decide not to hold my breath while waiting for it though.
About detecting people that use 3rd program - NOT being user of such.
- Best one, when you are dagger with Hide skill active.... and you get targeted and killed by nuker, you tried to get - no better evidence :)
- When you attack one who port into some location.
(Normal person have some small 1-3 sec lag)
3rd program start spamming CP/HP almost exactly same moment when get attack.
- When you attack someone who just port. After first hit he BSOE (and at 100% he had black screen)
Don't understand it but it look that information about dmg is deliver to client very fast - even when client do not display anything except black screen :D
- when you after long observeation of enemy do target and one immediately bsoe .. no better proof
- When you try target enemy - like SwS / Tyran /non dagger class and whatever you do you lose target on him (like on human dagger with Mirrage )
P.S. I'm not sure if it is new feature of 3rd programs or just I have fight with very lucky enemy with augment who poses Magic Reflect skill.
Fight with Tyrant who has such skill was entertaining :D
- When you attack one who port into some location.
(Normal person have some small 1-3 sec lag)
3rd program start spamming CP/HP almost exactly same moment when get attack.
- When you attack someone who just port. After first hit he BSOE (and at 100% he had black screen) Don't understand it but it look that information about dmg is deliver to client very fast - even when client do not display anything except black screen :D
It's also delivered to the other members of the same party. Not a reliable way to detect.
Are you saying that he may know that he is attacked because other people in party can see (not porting) his CP/HP bar droping with no delay and tell him on TS/Vent to hit bsoe/spam CP or HP?
Or have you meant something different?
About BSOE at PS.
Many times we were camping for enemies at PS and I saw many times enemies who BSOE in blink of eye. I couldn't read clan name/player name and he was BSOE already. While human need at least 1 sec to see screen and decide what to do ... they don't :p
Can't explain it other way then 3rd program.
for ******s, this is not QQ thread.
I would like to clearify about one gray area in game - it is 3d side soft usage radar, l2 control and so on. This software "helps" user to target enemies, drink potions and etc.
At first glance this software breaks eula and is reason for ban offense.
But as far as I know, 70%+ of top level clan players uses such software and there were no single ban.
So, is it allowed or not? Or it is not allowed but very hard to prove? Or it is not allowed and there is slight chance to be banned some day?
From one point of view you can see such software like beneficial extention of l2 client abilities. For example sound alarm on enemie in some range, which would be very nice in original game.
From other point of view it is disbalance in game, because radar uses have big advantage against legit players. I would say that kill/defend performance increases twice or even more.
To be honest, I still not using such software, but day after day I see less reason not to use it.
So, comments?
Anything that interacts with the game via be hardware or software that automates game play is against the EULA. Client Side or later doesn't matter. If it isn't a feature of the game or the environment of the game is not legit. :( /stopcry on
Are you saying that he may know that he is attacked because other people in party can see (not porting) his CP/HP bar droping with no delay and tell him on TS/Vent to hit bsoe/spam CP or HP?
Yes. Or, if he multiboxes, he can see the same on the screen of his another account, if it is in party.
Years ago, when use of a bot wasn't so common in PvP clans, people used EEs to check a port spot this way.
About detecting people that use 3rd program - NOT being user of such.
- Best one, when you are dagger with Hide skill active.... and you get targeted and killed by nuker, you tried to get - no better evidence :)
- When you attack one who port into some location.
(Normal person have some small 1-3 sec lag)
3rd program start spamming CP/HP almost exactly same moment when get attack.
- When you attack someone who just port. After first hit he BSOE (and at 100% he had black screen)
Don't understand it but it look that information about dmg is deliver to client very fast - even when client do not display anything except black screen :D
- when you after long observeation of enemy do target and one immediately bsoe .. no better proof
- When you try target enemy - like SwS / Tyran /non dagger class and whatever you do you lose target on him (like on human dagger with Mirrage )
P.S. I'm not sure if it is new feature of 3rd programs or just I have fight with very lucky enemy with augment who poses Magic Reflect skill.
Fight with Tyrant who has such skill was entertaining :D
I have 3 SSDs in raid, I get literally milliseconds of blackscreen even if I m porting to TOI13 with 200 people there.. There is no way to statistically ascertain how fast is too fast, not to mention the premise is wrong.
Here's the simpler solution: hire a cheap software engineer or 2 and have them spend their time making sure nothing, no bot, no radar, nothing, can inject itself into L2.exe. I know it sounds complicated but it's not. And there you go, bot/radar problem solved.
Here's the simpler solution: hire a cheap software engineer or 2 and have them spend their time making sure nothing, no bot, no radar, nothing, can inject itself into L2.exe.
As if GameGuard wasn't buggy enough :rolleyes:
And no, you don't need injecting anything into L2.bin to make a working radar.
if they ban all players using "radar" they will need to merge all servers in one to can have atleast one live server mb thats why no1 ate the banana for it yet
and dont tell me its hard to prove it if u know how it works its easy just some1 have to do the job same as boters what investigation when 1 min watching the bot grp is enough but its too hard to go to the place and check it...
Half a year passed since I last visited official forums and still players on these boards are naive to go to discussions about means of how 3rd soft could be detected. I think you don't even have to discuss that it's possible to detect it, why it's not being detected? Well answer is pretty obvious I think... :)
what i don't get is how these Radars came to exist?
i mean they are pre programmed... not like each players has to **** it themselves. i remember using a trainer in Diablo a long time ago...
i found it fascinating how much you could modify... ever since Diablo 2 though i couldn't find a good one which worked on my server kept characters... but i find that even more fascinating.
people build these radars and bot programs, but then they are forced to constantly update them... but how can they do this? why can it not be stopped? why has Ncsoft and other major corporations sent in Assassins to take out the system developers of these 3rd party programs? it seems it wouldn't be too hard for an elite team of NCsoft security programmers to track down the source of program builders...
easy soloution...
Kill the bot program programmars and force more people to build their own programs which are much less efficient and easier to detect.
Hide they can detect and ban
Potspamming, Targetting, whatever, is not as easy to detect. Anybody with a nostromo can push a button and start potspamming, how can you tell if the person is on nostromo or a radar?
One you initiate, and stop... so it's not that perfect, another is done for you automatically. That's the easiest one to spot... watch a PvP video, if someone perfectly starts and stops when they lose CP, or are full CP during all their PvP... They aren't doing it by hand/Nostromo.
One you initiate, and stop... so it's not that perfect, another is done for you automatically. That's the easiest one to spot... watch a PvP video, if someone perfectly starts and stops when they lose CP, or are full CP during all their PvP... They aren't doing it by hand/Nostromo.
Video is a fraps of client output. I believe that it can be perfectly reproduced by using data log files.
what i don't get is how these Radars came to exist?
i mean they are pre programmed... not like each players has to **** it themselves. i remember using a trainer in Diablo a long time ago...
i found it fascinating how much you could modify... ever since Diablo 2 though i couldn't find a good one which worked on my server kept characters... but i find that even more fascinating.
people build these radars and bot programs, but then they are forced to constantly update them... but how can they do this? why can it not be stopped? why has Ncsoft and other major corporations sent in Assassins to take out the system developers of these 3rd party programs? it seems it wouldn't be too hard for an elite team of NCsoft security programmers to track down the source of program builders...
easy soloution...
Kill the bot program programmars and force more people to build their own programs which are much less efficient and easier to detect.
I don't know a **** thing about computers, but have always assumed that the reason my client won't log in normally after tuesday maintenance (about 2-3x each month) is that NCSoft programmed some little changes in their side to frustrate such programs (and make the programmers update them).
Idk if that is even true--but it has always seemed to me that changes in the platform happen pretty frequently as evidenced by the # of times I have to reset my files and update just to log in.
At this point if Tues maintenance comes and goes and I DON'T have to reload parts of the system files I'm pretty happy.
Just always assumed that was NCSoft making minor changes to frustrate 3rd party programs.
Yes? No?
Not sure, myself.
~D~
As for tactical action against game 3rd party programmers? Nah. They don't matter. What we should have is an international agreement that those who program and generate initial computer virus' get the death penalty when caught. That would be worthwhile! :)
Maybe can be good an extra thing from NCsoft what is detecting if any player/players use bot program or radar or any cheat and u can kill these players without pk points and karma. And ofcourse these cheaters cant hit the normal players.
One you initiate, and stop... so it's not that perfect, another is done for you automatically. That's the easiest one to spot... watch a PvP video, if someone perfectly starts and stops when they lose CP, or are full CP during all their PvP... They aren't doing it by hand/Nostromo.
Yes I know ... now if you think ncsoft is gonna sit down and crossreference people's cp levels and cp pot usage to determine who's got a radar going and who doesn't then ... sorry but you live in a dream :)
What I mean is visually identify ... you go in a siege field 200 people are shooting cp pots. No way to tell who's spamming cause he left he nostromo macro on and who has radar. And no way is ncsoft going to say ok now guys, lets crossreference every single one of those 200 people's cp pot usage with the levels of their cp and see who's got l2control.
You go to say IT and see a wartag destro suddenly go into hide mode, it's easy to assume they are cheating.
Yes I know ... now if you think ncsoft is gonna sit down and crossreference people's cp levels and cp pot usage to determine who's got a radar going and who doesn't then ... sorry but you live in a dream :)
What I mean is visually identify ... you go in a siege field 200 people are shooting cp pots. No way to tell who's spamming cause he left he nostromo macro on and who has radar. And no way is ncsoft going to say ok now guys, lets crossreference every single one of those 200 people's cp pot usage with the levels of their cp and see who's got l2control.
You go to say IT and see a wartag destro suddenly go into hide mode, it's easy to assume they are cheating.
No I don't think they will do that, but if you had GM's just randomly raise CP of the server by 2000, and see who immediately fills it up, and where... not hard to add it up! NcSoft would never do that though.
About detecting people that use 3rd program - NOT being user of such.
- Best one, when you are dagger with Hide skill active.... and you get targeted and killed by nuker, you tried to get - no better evidence :)
Actually theres a post about this somewhere in this forum, i actually nuke daggers in oly without use any sort of program, target macro or hardware thing.
All i can tell you is if you target the Dagger before he hide and dont target anything else meanwhile theres few skills that can land on him, im not saying with this that many ppl actually dont benefit from programs to kill hide daggers, im 100% sure many do, i just saying its possible without use any illegal thing.
Personally i have petition many times specially at sieges when you are out of siege area and enemy hit you till you get into 300/400 hp and stop to not go red if you dont reply the attack, also there is places on castles where many times you get nukers targeting you and nuke you from places where you cant see the player, but they nuke exacly the right ppl below them, but after petition that, the lame answers made me stop reporting that, seems useless...
Yes I know ... now if you think ncsoft is gonna sit down and crossreference people's cp levels and cp pot usage to determine who's got a radar going and who doesn't then ... sorry but you live in a dream :)
What I mean is visually identify ... you go in a siege field 200 people are shooting cp pots. No way to tell who's spamming cause he left he nostromo macro on and who has radar. And no way is ncsoft going to say ok now guys, lets crossreference every single one of those 200 people's cp pot usage with the levels of their cp and see who's got l2control.
You go to say IT and see a wartag destro suddenly go into hide mode, it's easy to assume they are cheating.
Who did say that it is legal to run nostromo macro for automatically spam CP pots?
The pressing on keybord to start/stop macro do not make such macros legal.
I see that all macros which have endless loop or stop on some event from nostromos are on ilegal side. Just because they automate user actions.
nostro isnt a automated useraction like 3rd partysoftware (ranger). ranger interact by itself with the enviroment. with nostromo u made the decisions.
not only nostrodomo got macros, there are many many peripheral devices with macro functions. mice, keyboards, gamepads.
and we got a clear answer from GM staff. dont use peripheral device macros afk. u can use this devices legally.
cp pot macro is possible even with la2 macro api.
but iam sure this api is also evil coz people can spam automated:
WTS Items 1234
WTS Items 1234
WTS Items 1234
WTS Items 1234
WTS Items 1234
first focus on the real problems: ********, l2ranger etc. autotarget enemies, autoattack enemies. auto cp pot usage, auto chicken bsoe after port. auto auto auto, w/o user interaction (except hands on the ballz)
and we got a clear answer from GM staff. dont use peripheral device macros afk. u can use this devices legally.
If I will stay at small hunt area with agro and social mobs and start auto attack macro by nostromo like
1. /next target
2. /attack
3. /delay 10s
4. jump to first step
So, this means if I sit next to pc and watch TV, time by time checking is it going well in hunt session, this is legal? I remember some guys, started such "grind" and after just chating in clan chat.
Ok never mind. Nostromo is gray area, very close to legal stuff. And yes, wander about 3d soft, as far as I understand everyone agree that it is ilegal stuff, but it is very low chance to banned unless you will use clear hacking functions.
that's true that most of the time the people who get banned are using **** functions like speed ****, and reuse skill ****, invulnerability, and force proc on skills... i'm sure these hacks exist, and people probably use them, but it is easier to verify the use of these therefore people get banned for it.
i had a GM friend for another game...
and one of the things he had to do was go look for people using bot programs... but he also had to ban people who were using macroing which was allowed, yet frowned upon and bannable if afk. he said he hated trying to determine if someone was afk.
all i know...
is if NCsoft does infact turn a blind to these programs...
then please offer up a usable alternative to them which Legit players can capitalize on without having to resort to walker and radar virus infested web sites(although the botter sites are probably super legit with better viral protection than the L2 site)
I have 3 SSDs in raid, I get literally milliseconds of blackscreen even if I m porting to TOI13 with 200 people there..
Holy cow!
I want your computer!
.. or at least on SSD for L2 :D
ofc it won't help me in PvP while I always get so excited that forget spam CP .. or get backstabbed in millisecond :p
About topic ... As I saw some 'smart' scripts, they have some kind of variation to not be 100 % repeatable. Example was about botting in circle but creator was proud that script can be used in any other 'activities'
That mean that simple statistical methods can not be reliable as well.
But what is simple to proof if L2xxxx tool user go into Hide or attack enemy under hide not being archer ... he is cheater.
Ban over such people would be good step ahead.
Saying that spamming CP from Nastromo is good but spamming CP from other program is bad, is slightly wierd and hard to explain.
But for sure using not existing skills/feautures (hide, taget in 9999 distance, look behind walls, below ground, auto target on one who attack healer etc ) should be punished.
Saying that spamming CP from Nastromo is good but spamming CP from other program is bad, is slightly wierd and hard to explain.
Not really. One is the equivalent of putting a paper weight on your F key, while the other interacts with incoming packets to automatically detect your CP, and use pots whenever it falls below X amount.
Which is bannable in some circumstances (there were people banned for that).
No one got banned for a paper weight on their F key. NO ONE. Someone that was wtfbbq running a 9 man train, hide hacking, or //summon_l33tHax made up that tale for you lol.
No one got banned for a paper weight on their F key. NO ONE. Someone that was wtfbbq running a 9 man train, hide hacking, or //summon_l33tHax made up that tale for you lol.
Ah, that's surely why they got a ban on their in-town recharger.
No one got banned for a paper weight on their F key. NO ONE. Someone that was wtfbbq running a 9 man train, hide hacking, or //summon_l33tHax made up that tale for you lol.
I have been told that it is a banable offence... I asked the same question but used a stapler instead of a paper weight. So just you all know... the use of L2Stapler can get you banned.
I don't spend any time on the fragile, chronically angry, infantile websites--but I've never heard anyone proclaim;
"they caught me fair and square! I botted for 5 months and they banned me!"
It's almost always some horse *PUCKY* story or excuse of how they were 'accidentally' banned and some lame attempt to explain the injustice of it all.
Shortest lists in the history of Mankind?
1) honest politicians
2) literary cavemen
3) benevolent dictators
4) honest L2 players accidentally banned from the game
NCSoft should implement the radar in the game. After all it has a "radar" so as a concept it is not against the game basics.
But this will gave more fair chance to the smaller clans (and the legit players).
BTW - it is not a problem to usea third party program which IS NOT AGANST THE EULA. In this forum is said punishable offence is using 3rd party programs which interfere or change L2 files and/or server. But there are programs which doesn't interefere witht he game itself but only with the PC memory. Once they locate the PC memory address which contains the CP value it can trigger a subprogram for spamming CP pots. I guess it shall be considered a cheat too but not according to thread I read some times ago in Anouncements forum.
Ah, that's surely why they got a ban on their in-town recharger.
If they got a ban on their in town recharger then they were running it with walker. Sorry, but you're not gonna get banned because a key is held down. For all they know you have your finger on it while reading a book.
If they got a ban on their in town recharger then they were running it with walker. Sorry, but you're not gonna get banned because a key is held down.
Spam personally have said that you would get banned if you had a key down and didn't retract it when you were asked by a GM.
For all they know you have your finger on it while reading a book.
At Spam's time you could have been banned for this as well. Dunno about the current GMs.
Dunno why since "Spamm" letf Lineage he got so mutch love, i add reported the same bots i report today when he was caring of GM supervision, and the only difference i seen so far was new places added to the game, cause mostly of my reported toons are still there.
There is a crafter in Aden for more than one year with the same auto-recharger day after day, ofc that was missed.
Theres a clan (Yes a clan, specially for that purpose), that run automated shops in Giran, and run some sort of program that make them run in rift and attack only on the raid boss room to level crystals.
Theres a lot of ppl who attack you on sieges out of comabat zones and stop before you die if you dont flag all the time
There is a lot of ppl who attack you on sieges from locations where its impossible to see the players and you cant attack them back
All have been reported and what, they still there, they do whatever they want and they laught at NC random bans!
The existance of this kind of programs is totally fault of NC Soft developers, there are a lot of ways to change things to make those programs dont work, and the best of them all is the unexistence one:
Gm's in game, they are simple not there, i have no idea how many actually can log in game, but so far we dont get one GM logging in a server even 1 day / week.
There is ppl even going on my clan forum with comments like there is mutch better programs than L2W****, try to find me if you can, and other crap like that
Makes me wonder if hide **** is still working for some ppl, cause many of them using it are still in game, and once more NC add not valid proof of those actions, or better they didnt ever look at their actions!
There was even times we add hero shouts about they going afk botting, and even that is ignored.
And when a random ban exist is nothing else than a random ban, and only 2 or 3 places are checked, not even the ip adress is, there is a lot of ppl with banned accounts having alts as leaders just to prevent any problem with their clans, or even accounts that log only in siege days for crest purpose.
All this is NC fault, and all the current sittuation on the servers is due to lack of advertive from NC and a good enforcement on game rules.
Do we have any comunity gm/menager to read our posts...
or any1 from NC team reading it..or we just loosing our time on board..
i didnt saw since long time any official answer from gm/comunity menager in this section..
i thought it was clear all of us who read these boards are masochists, putting forward all sorts of comments we know for sure will be ignored in the most miserable way by all of NC staff... but i'd be happy to be proved wrong
I've tried holding a key down before.
tried it yesterday.
apparently if you using the in game hot bar only...
if you click anything else while holding that key down, it will fail to continue registration until you lift and repress it.
as with my spirit shots, pressing the key, then pressing a series of Seals, only the first one receives the shot while the others are left as dismal failures.
i once tried a target/kill macro... it was too much of a pain to maintain.
maybe it just wasn't advanced enough:)
/target, /attack, /delay... then i think i used next target instead of /target again... i watched it work once, then fail 8 times before i scrapped the idea.
some people seem to have a lot of luck with macros.
but use of macro won't get you banned... unless it's all you do for 3 hours straight, then fail to respond to a GM who is questioning your methods.
Here's the deal... and yes I do work with computers for a very big evil corporation.
3rd party programs and how they work.
Part I
computers send packets of information via the internet back and forth to/from NCSoft's Servers. These packets tell the Servers what you want to do, and the Servers perform that action and send an update back to the client to update the screen.
(I think we all understand that part) :)
Part II
3rd party programs "sniff" these packets without tampering with them. They then, using pre-configured parameters, send packets back to the Server telling the server to spam cp pots, hide.. etc...
(I think we can understand this part also)
So technically they do not change the client or the server, they manipulate the packets of information going back to the server, thus emulating the client without modifying the client in any way.
Part III
How to stop 3rd party programs.....
This is so ridiculously easy that I'm kinda ashamed of NC Soft.
ENCRYPT THE PACKETS AND USE SSL
That's all you need to do. They could use Certificates (meaning they issue the certificates to the client machines) for instance when you install the game and/or are downloading the updates you get the cert...etc.
The reason this would work is that the 3rd party program won't understand what the packets are saying as the 3rd party program doesn't have the private key to decypt the traffic. Also if anything sniffs the traffic the SSL Tunnel dies.
The reason that these 3rd party programs work is that NC Soft in their infinite wisdom is sending the packets back and forth un-encrypted. This means that with any packet sniffer, you can see exactly the commands being sent back and forth. With enough time and people, you can document every action and the corresponding packet, which is exactly what these programmers have done.
Here's the deal... and yes I do work with computers for a very big evil corporation.
3rd party programs and how they work.
Part I
computers send packets of information via the internet back and forth to/from NCSoft's Servers. These packets tell the Servers what you want to do, and the Servers perform that action and send an update back to the client to update the screen.
(I think we all understand that part) :)
Part II
3rd party programs "sniff" these packets without tampering with them. They then, using pre-configured parameters, send packets back to the Server telling the server to spam cp pots, hide.. etc...
(I think we can understand this part also)
So technically they do not change the client or the server, they manipulate the packets of information going back to the server, thus emulating the client without modifying the client in any way.
Part III
How to stop 3rd party programs.....
This is so ridiculously easy that I'm kinda ashamed of NC Soft.
ENCRYPT THE PACKETS AND USE SSL
That's all you need to do. They could use Certificates (meaning they issue the certificates to the client machines) for instance when you install the game and/or are downloading the updates you get the cert...etc.
The reason this would work is that the 3rd party program won't understand what the packets are saying as the 3rd party program doesn't have the private key to decypt the traffic. Also if anything sniffs the traffic the SSL Tunnel dies.
The reason that these 3rd party programs work is that NC Soft in their infinite wisdom is sending the packets back and forth un-encrypted. This means that with any packet sniffer, you can see exactly the commands being sent back and forth. With enough time and people, you can document every action and the corresponding packet, which is exactly what these programmers have done.
Enough interwebs for today... hehe
Redboan
If i had a dollar for everytime i read something like this.
The reason NC has not fixed the problems is not because they don't know how or don't have the resources...its simply because they don't want to.
We can all speculate on the reasons why but the fact remains.
If i had a dollar for everytime i read something like this.
The reason NC has not fixed the problems is not because they don't know how or don't have the resources...its simply because they don't want to.
We can all speculate on the reasons why but the fact remains.
DrTulp, you gave yours opinion like a fact.
The fact is that we don't know the reasons why game is not protected from such software and players.
Yours conclusion that "they don't want to" is because that NCSoft didn't fixed/protexted that in a way/time you expect. But there is no single official information source from where you can get info that "they don't want to".
I see from little bit other perspective: first of all game is developed in Korea, it is designed for Korea and other close countries. NCWest it is very small department of NCSoft. Don't remember charts, but I have seen anual income charts, so NCWest income is less than 5% total NCSoft income. Next thing is that Lineage2 is designed for Korea players, and there are no (or almost no) botting/3d soft usage issues.
So, why a hell NCSoft should stop every change or new stuff implementation and react on NCWest customers needs?
This post already went off-topic. Lets close it.
Fact is that radar and etc. software is not legit, but it is "more legit" than botting software, meaning less chance to be baned.
I do not see how this can be a "grey area". 3rd party software like this is completely ******ed and anybody who uses it should be banned from the internet for life. It is so much fun when you are in a siege in the BACK of a pile of your own people, target the enemy healer without even DOING anything yet and then you can already see the nukes flying in your direction because some alarm went off somewhere.
But yes, using such tools has become standard practice. "top" pvp clans even buy clan licenses. And people do not even keep it a big secret anymore - recently I was asked to join a party with people from a clan which has lots of wars up. I declined, saying "nah, I don't want to join, in case you get into pvp". The reply to that was "don't worry, we have radar, so we know it in time when somebody comes"...
I just do not see what the fun is in using this crap, it's like joining a multiplayer shooter, activating god mode and killing everybody else in the game. You do not win because you're good, you win because you cheat.
Maybe it is also an arms race, one side starts using it and the other side feels that it is necessary to use it, too, to keep up.
I think I can see where there may be some confusion over our position on the use of hardware such as the Logitech G15, Nostromo or other programmable game devices. In actuality, our position regarding the use of these devices has never changed. It has always been against the rules when these devices are used to automate game play in a manner not possible through normal game play.
The best way to determine if how you are using these devices is a violation or not is by asking yourself “Can a normal keyboard/mouse combination replicate the same behavior?†If how you are using the programmable device can be done through a regular mouse/keyboard combination, then you won’t have anything to worry about.
One example I often hear of is spamming CP potions. These devices can be setup to endlessly spam CP potions with the push of a button. Repeatedly consuming CP potions is possible through the use of a regular keyboard by setting up a hotkey and just holding down the hotkey on the keyboard. The difference is if the programmable device is somehow able to detect the character’s CP level and automatically start spamming CP potions at a specific level and then automatically stop spamming the CP potions at a specific level.
There is a very distinguishable difference between using these devices to facilitate game play compared to using these devices to automate game play. We’re looking for and testing for the automation. If the character is found to be exhibiting behavior that cannot be replicated through the use of a normal keyboard/mouse setup, then the character is considered to be “botting†even if they are only using a programmable device like the Logitech G15 or Nostromo.
I think I can see where there may be some confusion over our position on the use of hardware such as the Logitech G15, Nostromo or other programmable game devices. In actuality, our position regarding the use of these devices has never changed. It has always been against the rules when these devices are used to automate game play in a manner not possible through normal game play.
The best way to determine if how you are using these devices is a violation or not is by asking yourself “Can a normal keyboard/mouse combination replicate the same behavior?†If how you are using the programmable device can be done through a regular mouse/keyboard combination, then you won’t have anything to worry about.
One example I often hear of is spamming CP potions. These devices can be setup to endlessly spam CP potions with the push of a button. Repeatedly consuming CP potions is possible through the use of a regular keyboard by setting up a hotkey and just holding down the hotkey on the keyboard. The difference is if the programmable device is somehow able to detect the character’s CP level and automatically start spamming CP potions at a specific level and then automatically stop spamming the CP potions at a specific level.
There is a very distinguishable difference between using these devices to facilitate game play compared to using these devices to automate game play. We’re looking for and testing for the automation. If the character is found to be exhibiting behavior that cannot be replicated through the use of a normal keyboard/mouse setup, then the character is considered to be “botting†even if they are only using a programmable device like the Logitech G15 or Nostromo.
Will
Its good you have cleared this up cause i did ask NC in a support ticket about 3 years ago and support said it was OK to use Nostromo period....they did not say about how you used it. Personally i don't use anything because i'm too lazy to set one up. But i feel bad for those that bought one on the understanding that it was OK to use. The Nostromo thing was talked about many times on the Boards with all agreeing it was not against the EULAs.
But i hear you!
So basically G 15 users have nothing to worry about as unless I'm mistaken, it can't detect how much CP you have or don't have and automatically pot you back up.
I think the confusion lies with the ticket itself. It reads like using anything except your flesh and blood fingers is a bannable offense. "We have detected the use of 'gloves' while playing Lineage 2. Your account has been permenantly closed"... Or something similar ^_^.
So basically G 15 users have nothing to worry about as unless I'm mistaken, it can't detect how much CP you have or don't have and automatically pot you back up.
I think the confusion lies with the ticket itself. It reads like using anything except your flesh and blood fingers is a bannable offense. "We have detected the use of 'gloves' while playing Lineage 2. Your account has been permenantly closed"... Or something similar ^_^.
That is how I understand it as well. There was a post by (Ret) HGMSpam that basically said that g15/etc are ok as long as you do not use to play the game for you. If you set it up to do a dance macro, fine, just don't have it do a dance macro exactly every two mins.
Here's the deal... and yes I do work with computers for a very big evil corporation.
3rd party programs and how they work.
Part I
computers send packets of information via the internet back and forth to/from NCSoft's Servers. These packets tell the Servers what you want to do, and the Servers perform that action and send an update back to the client to update the screen.
(I think we all understand that part) :)
Part II
3rd party programs "sniff" these packets without tampering with them. They then, using pre-configured parameters, send packets back to the Server telling the server to spam cp pots, hide.. etc...
(I think we can understand this part also)
So technically they do not change the client or the server, they manipulate the packets of information going back to the server, thus emulating the client without modifying the client in any way.
Part III
How to stop 3rd party programs.....
This is so ridiculously easy that I'm kinda ashamed of NC Soft.
ENCRYPT THE PACKETS AND USE SSL
That's all you need to do. They could use Certificates (meaning they issue the certificates to the client machines) for instance when you install the game and/or are downloading the updates you get the cert...etc.
The reason this would work is that the 3rd party program won't understand what the packets are saying as the 3rd party program doesn't have the private key to decypt the traffic. Also if anything sniffs the traffic the SSL Tunnel dies.
The reason that these 3rd party programs work is that NC Soft in their infinite wisdom is sending the packets back and forth un-encrypted. This means that with any packet sniffer, you can see exactly the commands being sent back and forth. With enough time and people, you can document every action and the corresponding packet, which is exactly what these programmers have done.
Enough interwebs for today... hehe
Redboan
I would assume the reason the packets aren't encrypted are due to limitations in speed. Remember.. not everyone has an awesome computer, and encryption/decryption of EVERY packet would take a lot of time (relatively speaking). Not to mention if you run multiple clients as most do.. you are further increasing the number of packets being sent.
1. yes, normal keyboard can spam GCP by holding button. But there are slight differences which make big differences when you fight:
a) holding button do not help when you pressing other buttons. It just stops to spam GCP even if you still hold button
b) nostromo activates/deactivate GCP spamming by single key press, and after that finger is free, so can be used for other actions. For normal keyboard it is "locked" to 1 button. And for normal play (left hand keyboard, right hand mouse), if GCP is F12, it is kinda hard to press F1-F4 buttons.
2. Please explain what is a difference between of these macros (suppose Nostromo, but don't know how it should written):
a) press F12 (use GCP; use CP use L2 macro is there); sleep 1.5s; repeat from first macro step;
b) press F12 (/target "mob_name"; /nexttarget; /attack); sleep 10s; repeat from first macro step;
from nostromo perspective it is totally same - invoke L2 macro by pressing specific button and sleep some time. But with "a)" you may automatically drink CP potions till you have them, and with "b)" you can "grind" at exp area till apropriate mobs will be within range.
Don't see big difference, but one is ban offense, and other is kinda normal.
One example I often hear of is spamming CP potions. These devices can be setup to endlessly spam CP potions with the push of a button. Repeatedly consuming CP potions is possible through the use of a regular keyboard by setting up a hotkey and just holding down the hotkey on the keyboard. The difference is if the programmable device is somehow able to detect the character’s CP level and automatically start spamming CP potions at a specific level and then automatically stop spamming the CP potions at a specific level.
g15/nostromo companies selling this equip to spam macro with hardware software, it is legal in other mmo and is advertising to do this thats why to buy it to make your life easier but u can do the same effect and without it.
I want to ask gm why they dont use ban policies on the people who use these radar programs that is exploit in the game code, it got botting software inside, got hide effect, intelligent on life and auto use pots, on who is enemy or friend where is he, his life , his class etc.
And even more with radar u can see the identity code of the mob so u know which mob u need to kill in kamaloka or which tyrannosaurus lvl up the crystal in dino island.
We see all big clan members using these softwares and we dont see ban policies on them(and i dont talking about permanent bans they should ban them for 3-4 days often every time who caught them use them so they will stop using them).
With these policies of ncsoft is like we need to use radar or bot like is build in addon. I hope gm will start banning people for 4-5 days for using software exploits in l2.
But the best policy is to block Radar and bot programs so no one ll can use them.
It can even pop a resist element potion when certain type of nuker come close to you, or (from what i heard) turn you front to dagger when he starts casting backstab... Not to mention stuff like retarged or "autoassist on the one that touched our healer" stuff ^^ Great fun indeed ;P
TBH just make an NC-signed version of this program, call it "extension" and put on an official website for download.
at some point here the question comes up, "why even sit at your computer at all?"
Players may as well just log on their client and push "insert" (or whatever) and the computer will fight your little toon.
Is winning in PvP REALLY that important? Is winning with all the haxx and supports and shortcuts and cheats and programs really a sign that a player has TALENT? Because I would argue the opposite--that the players using those are fragile players without talent who cry if they lose.
Anyone who cheats PROVES to the world that they are not good enough to do it legit.
Therefore, cheating is admitting to everyone (except perhaps to themselves) that they are simply no good at L2. The implication would be that this extends to other areas of their lives, too, but that is beyond the scope of the thread.
Only honest L2 players count. The rest are basically mobs.
PS to Str4t3gos post above. No short bans, only PermaBans.
(...) Next thing is that Lineage2 is designed for Korea players, and there are no (or almost no) botting/3d soft usage issues.
how do you know that? .. afaik all the cheating-tools are korean and got translated into english later on.
i cant imagine any technical reason why nc cant implement a safe client-server communication, or at last something that forces the user (and programmer) to a daily update of his cheating tools. They had years to disable walker .. and did nothing. All we got is the anoying gameguard that dosnt help .. (rumors say it could help, but nc didnt order that feature in gameguard).
All we got is the anoying gameguard that dosnt help .. (rumors say it could help, but nc didnt order that feature in gameguard).
To this day i really don't know what GameGuard actually does. It prevents me from logging two accounts on the same computer lots of times. Its a nice way of getting frustrated even before i start.
GameGuard hides the game application process, monitors the entire memory range, terminates applications defined by the game vendor and INCA Internet to be cheats (QIP for example), blocks certain calls to DirectX functions and Windows APIs, and auto-updates itself to change as new threats surface.
To bad it blocks the good programs instead of 3th party software. I remember in the past, when i made several tickets about 3th party software and how to prevent packets to be abused, nobody listened at NCsoft. I even mailed Inca Internet which made this program that this program is not working right for the 3th party sofware (packet sniffing) users use at this moment.
Those 3th party software are not seen by gamegaurd at all. Thats why NCsoft cant fix this.
Some nice idea from some user here comes with an answer to use SSL certificates, to bad you have to re-write alot of code to implement this.
As already stated... Lineage2 = Korean game. A majority of players play in netcafes with their friends. Thus... they do not need encryption of packets for a vast majority of their players.
No, it wont give extra lagg, but its hard to implement for this old Unreal Tournament Engine. I really hope they have some nice security addition in L3. Nowadays there enough solutions for this.
Most people in Korea play in netcafes, with friends, enemies and random bystanders around and always being able to glance at their screens. If you use a bot there, everybody will know quickly, and you will be made into a pariah by your server's community (which for a typical Korean gamer is way worse than a simple banning).
GameGuard hides the game application process, monitors the entire memory range, terminates applications defined by the game vendor and INCA Internet to be cheats (QIP for example), blocks certain calls to DirectX functions and Windows APIs, and auto-updates itself to change as new threats surface.
To bad it blocks the good programs instead of 3th party software. I remember in the past, when i made several tickets about 3th party software and how to prevent packets to be abused, nobody listened at NCsoft. I even mailed Inca Internet which made this program that this program is not working right for the 3th party sofware (packet sniffing) users use at this moment.
Those 3th party software are not seen by gamegaurd at all. Thats why NCsoft cant fix this.
Some nice idea from some user here comes with an answer to use SSL certificates, to bad you have to re-write alot of code to implement this.
it also makes it impossible to run L2 under linux :(
one of the major things NCSoft *needs* to do is to *not* give unnecessary information to players..
List of things NCSoft needs to hide which it currently show to all players:
HP/MP (only need to show the percentage in party list, no need the exact figures)
the exact gear the person is using, need to only show the weapon/armour type (e.g. angel slayer, for the model) and the glow (which would show what + the weapon is at but that's unavoidable)
remove the ability for other players to know they're being targetted, I don't care about the character model 'looking' at the target, I'd rather lose this insignificant graphical feature
Hide class information, only need to show offensive/defensive mage, tank...etc in party list
Other things that would help to block 3rd party software:
encrypt packets using a unique key every time a player logs in, this is still crackable but takes more effort on the 3rd party programmers and it doesn't take much to implement this.
remove gameguard for NA version, it doesn't do anything at the moment, and due to it being a modified version of the original gameguard there are exists some random bugs and sideeffects that hinder players from playing the game properly. (more on this on the next point since this takes too much space for 1 paragraph :P)
Put in a feature that uses another medium to generate a login key everytime you log in. The medium could be msn, aim, sms, icq...etc. this helps prevent hackings, and will essentially stop account sharing in the most part. I think the legit players are more than willing to spend a couple seconds more to log into the game if it ensures account security.
The problem is ebaying botting and sale of toons is perfectly legal in Korea. They even have sites that link you to sale sites on their main forums. So NA NCSoft is just behind on the times, I will never use it but if its allowed in korea arent we just beating a dead monkey?
In fact in Korea there are Supreme Court decisions in Korea that won't even allow them to ban accounts without due process.
Problem can be seen with the lack of replies from NCSoft staff in NA. In fact we have a CM who has never even played L2 before being hired? Why don't they bring the CM over from L1 she had L2 toons for a long time she fully understands the game. Hiring someone who has no clue about a game is beyond ******ed.
Also if you haven't been able to tell there will be no new lands added, the last 3 updates and the 1 future update are all about redoing old landscapes. They have never completed Elmore, never expanded on the 7 signs, never finished Gracia, never finished Heine and Faurion, and they put Lividor in but you cannot fight him. Instead they put Freya in which has nothing to do with the main storlyine.
It is a disgrace what we are putting up in with NA no one in Korea cares about L2 anymore, all their staff has been moved to Aion, they just trying to squeeze last few drops of cash out of this game.
The problem is ebaying botting and sale of toons is perfectly legal in Korea. They even have sites that link you to sale sites on their main forums. So NA NCSoft is just behind on the times, I will never use it but if its allowed in korea arent we just beating a dead monkey?
In fact in Korea there are Supreme Court decisions in Korea that won't even allow them to ban accounts without due process.
watch a PvP video, if someone perfectly starts and stops when they lose CP, or are full CP during all their PvP... They aren't doing it by hand/Nostromo.
Actually its wrong idea....
cuz most times my CP is full or ppl cant get to my HP in 1vs1.. cuz I am always using my left hand only for pressing F10 and F11 for using CP and HP pots.. and using my right hand for using skills and selecting targeting.. in this case as I am clicking CP pots with my 1 hand and pushing with maximum speed as I can my my CP is full or at least ppl cant get to HP..
Actually its wrong idea....
cuz most times my CP is full or ppl cant get to my HP in 1vs1.. cuz I am always using my left hand only for pressing F10 and F11 for using CP and HP pots.. and using my right hand for using skills and selecting targeting.. in this case as I am clicking CP pots with my 1 hand and pushing with maximum speed as I can my my CP is full or at least ppl cant get to HP..
I would like to know how you manage to do this.
You say that by LEFT hand you press only F10 and F11 (CP + HP pots). And everything else is done by RIGHT hand. I asume that you are right handed person, and with right hand you manipulate mouse device. So this means that you are either 1 buton click win character either you clicking by mouse on shortcut bar (or skill bar).
This is hardly believable that it is efficient in pvp to use actions by clicking with a mouse on shortcut bar.
And shortcut bar consist of 3 lines. At one time you have to see yours HP/CP bar, to see what happening around aka enemy possitions and etc, and also see which skills are on reuse and etc.
just report those you suspect are using such programs as gm's do have some tools to verify if that's the case, their method isn't perfect but any blatant user will be caught eventually.. I know these exist as gm's check me on a regular basis, must have some fanboyz reporting me but that's all fine as at least it shows there are gm's actually investigating potential cheaters..
I would like to know how you manage to do this.
You say that by LEFT hand you press only F10 and F11 (CP + HP pots). And everything else is done by RIGHT hand. I asume that you are right handed person, and with right hand you manipulate mouse device. So this means that you are either 1 buton click win character either you clicking by mouse on shortcut bar (or skill bar).
This is hardly believable that it is efficient in pvp to use actions by clicking with a mouse on shortcut bar.
And shortcut bar consist of 3 lines. At one time you have to see yours HP/CP bar, to see what happening around aka enemy possitions and etc, and also see which skills are on reuse and etc.
Something is wrong here.
My main is glad.. SO I dont use same skill 2 times after each other.. which means while I am using other skill first skill reuse time ends.. secondly I have to use Sonic rage which is lvl 78 skill more than 1 times after each other.. and while u are using re-use time ends... so u can use it again and again..
moreover, it depends how u designed your skill bar.. and if u are pushing non-stop CP pots u dont have to look at your CP/HP bar.. cuz if u die u die, what u are doing is your best CP/HP spam:)
finally if u cant do something dont think that others cant do too.. got it?????????
I can push in same time F1 and F12 with my one hand.. (my fingers are long) can u push? ofc not...
finally if u cant do something dont think that others cant do too.. got it?????????
I can push in same time F1 and F12 with my one hand.. (my fingers are long) can u push? ofc not...
Ok now thats cwazy.
They seem to be using their scarce resources on RMT investigations at the time. RMT is bad (mmmmkay) but Radar/Botting is much more damaging to the game imho.
want to ban someone then have your whole clan pentition (ally w/e) (spam the petition system) the characters names and 99% of the time they will be ban since ncsoft doesn't want people to mass sending pentitions so they don't have to do their job. Do this and that person will be ban in time or after ncsoft feels annoyed.
Since ncsoft doesn't ban characters that reach MAX level in 1 year of playing on both main and all of subclasses but rather ban people that have played since beta and have barely reached level 80.
3rd party programs, ncsoft doesnt give a about anything but money, if they got income then they will allow it to continue until to many people complain about it. The day we see something change in this is when TERA comes out. Then MAYBE ncsoft will wake up and start putting GMs back into the game and MAYBE /gmlist would work and tell us that SOMEONE cares about Lineage still. MAYBE if ncsoft would add more events to the game (like 90% of other games out there) that HELP us, the valentine day event was neat.
Also the Koreans cheated when they played on our server. they brought botting to us, if anyone even remembers back when they ran lair until we got high enough to go there. EVERYONE battle against them, no1 allowed it. But look at what happen to the game as everything has fallen. If you want to go anywhere in this game you have to turn to people that can "2box" your account and powerlevel you or bot, but then again its what you want in this game. Ncsoft could fix this issue a couple of ways but won't ever happen.
MAYBE one day ncsoft will become smart, but until that day comes there will always be bots.
Dont get petition, dont get ban.
Get petition, get ban.