Just a newsflash to let you know that we've updated the Official Forum Rules (http://boards.lineage2.com/announcement.php?f=173). I highly encourage you to read the whole text (not just the red stuff). :)
I read most of the section about non-constructive posts, and I must say I am suprised. I would like to try to convey my feelings in a civil way, so that I will not have my account banned. The new rules say that accounts can be banned for your first offense, and after I read the rules it says that non-constructive rants with an angry tone will be removed. This next section is me trying to word something that angers me in a civil way:
Your rules against product bashing and keeping a civil tone remind me of the Iranian Government's censorship. I am appalled at how you are limiting our freedom of self expression! I cannot express how disgusted I am that we can only use a happy tone and don't find it at all constructive. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you are new, but I don't understand AT ALL how limiting what we can post about, not letting us product bash, not letting us bump, screening goodbye posts, the fact that "complaints about NCsoft or any of its employees acting in collusion with or granting favoritism to any group or player will be removed without notice" , and almost all of the other rules are productive as all they let us do is compliment a game, or make us sound like emotionless robots. In attempt to keep this post constructive and not be BANNED, I will leave you with this statement: Change these rules.
i read most of the section about non-constructive posts, and i must say i am suprised. I would like to try to convey my feelings in a civil way, so that i will not have my account banned. The new rules say that accounts can be banned for your first offense, and after i read the rules it says that non-constructive rants with an angry tone will be removed. This next section is me trying to word something that angers me in a civil way:
Your rules against product bashing and keeping a civil tone remind me of the iranian government's censorship. I am appalled at how you are limiting our freedom of self expression! I cannot express how disgusted i am that we can only use a happy tone and don't find it at all constructive. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you are new, but i don't understand at all how limiting what we can post about, not letting us product bash, not letting us bump, screening goodbye posts, the fact that "complaints about ncsoft or any of its employees acting in collusion with or granting favoritism to any group or player will be removed without notice" , and almost all of the other rules are productive as all they let us do is compliment a game, or make us sound like emotionless robots. In attempt to keep this post constructive and not be banned, i will leave you with this statement: Change these rules.
By my understanding of the prohibition list (6. Non-Constructive posts are prohibited), you cannot post if you disagree with something. Please correct me if I am wrong.
EDIT: Appears I misread something, however, that is the general feeling I get while reading that section.
EDIT again: I have a feeling it will get awfully quiet on these boards.
I read most of the section about non-constructive posts, and I must say I am suprised. I would like to try to convey my feelings in a civil way, so that I will not have my account banned. The new rules say that accounts can be banned for your first offense, and after I read the rules it says that non-constructive rants with an angry tone will be removed. This next section is me trying to word something that angers me in a civil way:
Your rules against product bashing and keeping a civil tone remind me of the Iranian Government's censorship. I am appalled at how you are limiting our freedom of self expression! I cannot express how disgusted I am that we can only use a happy tone and don't find it at all constructive. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you are new, but I don't understand AT ALL how limiting what we can post about, not letting us product bash, not letting us bump, screening goodbye posts, the fact that "complaints about NCsoft or any of its employees acting in collusion with or granting favoritism to any group or player will be removed without notice" , and almost all of the other rules are productive as all they let us do is compliment a game, or make us sound like emotionless robots. In attempt to keep this post constructive and not be BANNED, I will leave you with this statement: Change these rules.
I read through the rules and they are more strict than the rules i get from my mother. :p
Being a Soultaker as main i wonder if i can post at all since i read in the rules something about necromancy.
I guess that rules are needed, but with the changes to the rules i think we are going to have less posters in here with information that is actually usefull even if they can put it a little blunt. :)
ahh ok so back to the gustapo of yester years... missing posts, any mention of bots the post dissapears, or any thing that isnt warm and fluffy.
you know now more than ever my NCsoft Guantanamo pic fits and i will no longer check these message boards or post constructive or opinions. infact im seriously considering canceling all my accounts...
btw this is how it was last time there was a mass quit cause people couldnt communicate thier fustrations. and we were told all is well in the universe. so you might be trying dammage control for new players but your just turning your back to the old faithful ones. we dont like to be silenced or banned for any little thing that might upset the ncsoft god atm.
maybe i should have said "dont ask for feedback if you cant handle the truth"
btw sace in one way or another ALL my posts on these forums break all those rules in one way or another and i dont wish to be banned immediately can you please just /target aeowenposts and /delete
:o well may be you will all think i am some kind of extremist but giving precise rules of conduct, asking coutesy and intelligent way of speaking to others is not a trademark dedicated to dictature.
as long as any of you (or may be a real true old ones of us) can speak with true aknowledge of what was really III reich politic about free self expression.
any of US is in right to compare NC who tries as far as it can be possible to keep a factice quiet brillant place who only smart and polite people speak.
you have a ton (or more) of way to express yourself on every topic to tell to NC how you feel about something with no typical accusing tone ...
Those boards are too much often only disguise, insult, haughty "i am the best" point of vue and so many other stuff most of us are fade up with
this place have to stay a quiet place we can all post with wish of sharing and help... Official board must NOT become new blah boards ... they admitt trash so go there to do so ...
by the way most of posters there harvest now only what they seed before
After reading some of the replies I actually skimmed through the rules and holy you guys think your role on these forums are important. This is just a forum... It's supposed to be a secondary median to discuss the game, it's not actually part of the game. If anything you should only be reading posts directed towards ncsoft and just ignore the rest, invest that time in actually getting stuff done in game and fix all the broken content. No wonder you guys claim you don't have time to help me with my support tickets when you waste money paying people to heavily moderate some useless forums no one really cares about rather than help us with real game issues.
they just don't like when you tell them there wrong! ncsoft is never wrong!
Sorry to say but I have a feeling that your post is against #6
"Conspiracy threads are not permitted. Any groundless claims or complaints about NCsoft or any of its employees(..) will be removed without notice."
P.S. I need to ban myself on forum for SPAM on that post
"Spam is considered to be repetitive posting of the same topic or text or nonsensical posts that have no substance and are often designed to annoy other forum users."
:o
About topic to save my account :)
Tbh Don't see major change (may I ask Diff functionality?), more or less same rules same ideas.
In short:
That is OUR forum, OUR rules, OUR game, OUR business.
I read most of the section about non-constructive posts, and I must say I am suprised. I would like to try to convey my feelings in a civil way, so that I will not have my account banned. The new rules say that accounts can be banned for your first offense, and after I read the rules it says that non-constructive rants with an angry tone will be removed. This next section is me trying to word something that angers me in a civil way:
Your rules against product bashing and keeping a civil tone remind me of the Iranian Government's censorship. I am appalled at how you are limiting our freedom of self expression! I cannot express how disgusted I am that we can only use a happy tone and don't find it at all constructive. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you are new, but I don't understand AT ALL how limiting what we can post about, not letting us product bash, not letting us bump, screening goodbye posts, the fact that "complaints about NCsoft or any of its employees acting in collusion with or granting favoritism to any group or player will be removed without notice" , and almost all of the other rules are productive as all they let us do is compliment a game, or make us sound like emotionless robots. In attempt to keep this post constructive and not be BANNED, I will leave you with this statement: Change these rules.
Truth is quite too often subjective (ie opinion based on bias rather than fact). In other words, simply because you believe it is true that does not mean it is.
EDIT: Freedom of Speech does not apply on these boards, when you agree to the ToS you are agreeing to waiver your rights to some degree. Read contracts before signing them.
Thanks to all of you guys who agree with me, but I fear that if we continue to act friendly and constructive by working together to get this fixed we may be accused of starting a conspiracy and be banned. Did you hear the sarcasm in that last sentence? It was definitely there. Sace, I really like you because of how responsive you have been to the L2 community, but judging by the mostly negative feedback that the rule change has generated, I really think you should reconsider. Please, Sace, don't limit our speech. Don't start a mass quitting. Please.
It is their forums, which they designed for their customers, who give them $15.00 a month. Do you see the problem? We shouldn't be censored...we pay for this game and to have an account on these forums. I didn't pay for draconian rules.
Actually these are pretty much the same rules that Lyzira posted last year, and they are also the standard rules that all NCsoft products' forums go by. If you look around our forums, you'll see that there is plenty of freedom of speech and constructive feedback. The only moderations that have happened recently are profanity and insult edits, removing phishing scam emails, and my-friend-was-banned pleas (these must be dealt with between the GMs and the player in question). This is not to say that we shouldn't all respect the rules. If you have negative things to say about the game or the company, of course you have every right to say them, we just encourage they you offer more helpful feedback as to why you feel this way.
The only changes that have been made to the rules since last year are:
We took out the bit about deleting 'Goodbye' threads. We feel that a strong community deserves to have all due respect if they choose to leave the game.
We added the bit about phishing scams to rule 7. And to not turn a cold shoulder to those with questions about a potential phishing scam, we've offered private communication with NCsoft staff as an answer.
We added the Community Manager's email address.
These are the cleanest and most mature forums I've ever had the pleasure of reading. Most everyone offers a sober and educated opinion, and shows respect and fairness to their fellow posters. This place has a life and personality of its own, and the rules have not been stifling it in any way. Good job to you all for making your forums a good place! :)
# Pyramid quoting is not permitted. This is a response to a forum thread which contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily.
These forums don't have pyramid quoting. Nested quoting needs to be done manually when you think your readers won't fully understand the context of your post.
Or do you intend to prohibit all the nested quoting, even when it is used to reduce the chances of a non-constructive answer?
Thanks for the reply. The part of the rules with which I am concerned deal with how strongly worded the anti-product and anti-NCsoft censorship will be, and to be honest I'm just not satisfied with that section. Do you mean that posts that are angry or negative will be deleted? That sounds a lot like you're trying to recruit new players (which is good) by only letting us say good things (which is bad). Could you please clarify exactly what will be censored, and what is ok, please? Thanks!
Thanks for the reply. The part of the rules with which I am concerned deal with how strongly worded the anti-product and anti-NCsoft censorship will be, and to be honest I'm just not satisfied with that section. Do you mean that posts that are angry or negative will be deleted? That sounds a lot like you're trying to recruit new players (which is good) by only letting us say good things (which is bad). Could you please clarify exactly what will be censored, and what is ok, please? Thanks!
check some of my posts.. I'm sure I have been the cause of Sace getting a new keyboard because the "delete" key is broken to over use.
I beleive what they are saying is don't be a jerk and your posts will not be deleted or get you banned.
yes they have update the rules since they deleted two post in one day that was simply telling a truth. and nothing changed. seams that they have an administrator running and censoring the posts they dont see fit to them. the fact that we all pay money to ncsoft and we want respect and freedom to speak our minds without gestapo ways they dont consider it
sorry guys but probably my post which was deleted cause all this new rules.
nobody likes to hear someone telling him that he is wrong and that people support that
good job from the admin. this will probably be my last post. the ban i can see it coming
have fun
just reads like ANOTHER example of words over action to me :-S
my personal favourite is the troll bit , i read it as trolling isnt allowed but calling a troll a troll is equally prohibited - one day u guys will make some sense sadly i fear it will take so long that none of us will have survived to witness it.
5. Private communication between Customer Support or NCsoft members, moderators and administrators of the forum and the forum users is not to be made public on these forums or by any other venue.
You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence (including support tickets, petitions, email or private message correspondence, in game chat logs, etc.) received from any of the aforementioned without permission.
You can't be serious. What you want? To prevent people to know how the support members are not well trained to solve people problems? You guys talks like parents that swear they'r sons never had sex before marrige, even knowing they will be grandfathers 6 months after the marriege.
PS.: Wheres that picture of Jean Luck Piccard say what is is that ....??
yes they have update the rules since they deleted two post in one day that was simply telling a truth. and nothing changed. seams that they have an administrator running and censoring the posts they dont see fit to them. the fact that we all pay money to ncsoft and we want respect and freedom to speak our minds without gestapo ways they dont consider it
sorry guys but probably my post which was deleted cause all this new rules.
nobody likes to hear someone telling him that he is wrong and that people support that
good job from the admin. this will probably be my last post. the ban i can see it coming
have fun
I am sorry.. but QQ more...
As I said, it is their forums they can do what they want.
BUT!!!
Lets wait and see how much they delete/ban account from the forum.
As I said, it is their forums they can do what they want.
BUT!!!
Lets wait and see how much they delete/ban account from the forum.
my friend this is not about me and having my posts deleted
this is about people having the freedom to speak their minds and try to communicate or even work together for a solutions
if whenever we have an in-game problem there is no place to talk about it with the hope that someone that can actually do something see it there is no reason even to write here.
because one person has the authority to block/delete posts.
maybe this admin is a fine person and just an employer who follows rules and he cannot do nothing. but please don't lie to us that the company wants to promote the game and the new players by censoring the inside problems
this has a specific name and it is called hypocrisy and misguidance from the company for their own products.
so lets all say that they have a perfect game with perfect rules and perfect administrators outside and inside the game and create the illusion to new players that there is nothing wrong.
please everybody join the world of l2. a perfect world where the company cares for you.
at least until you need her.
because when you do need her you cannot post based on their new rules
ty ncsoft for simply showing to all of us what people say for a long time.
2. Abuse and disrespectful behavior are not tolerated.
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, conflicts may arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. Debating an opinion is appropriate, however criticism against the originator of the opinion is not allowed. Disrespect can be construed as flaming, trolling, harassing, profanity, abusive language or abbreviations, personal attacks, racial, religious, ethnic, sexual slurs, or similar behavior/language. This applies to both "public" threads and private messages.
Flaming is defined as posts which are designed to personally berate or insult another, and is not permitted.
No forms of trolling are permitted. Trolling is defined as deliberately posting derogatory, inflammatory comments/threads in order to bait other users into responding. Accusing someone of being a troll is also a form of trolling.
All posts referring to message board censorship will be removed. All message board content may be removed at the discretion of NCsoft. These posts will be removed and the poster warned. Any further posts will be removed, and the poster will be banned from the message boards. Also, working around a ban to continue posting is also prohibited and may incur an extension of a current ban.
Attacks against forum moderators are not permitted. If you disagree with an action taken by a moderator, you can send your complaint via PM to a moderator where it will be reviewed.
No personal attacks are permitted, which include, but are not limited to, insulting a poster directly. Example: "You are stupid, you suck, and you should [censored]"
So what that underlined and bold text says is that NCsoft can do whatever they want. So even if you say for example the earth is round, if the GM dont like it they can re move it ?
We pay minimal of 15 dollars a month to play this game and this is how we are threated ?
Its really ridicicoulous for words, so i suggest you guys be carefull when posting, any GM who has a bad day can ban you without a reason given. How is that fair?
I had a post removed because i asked why someone who played the game 5+ years got banned. He wasnt given a reason, he was just banned. He is been waiting for 3 days for any sign of life from NCsoft, yet as far as i know none has contacted him (untill last night 12.00 PM).
Im not ranting, just pionting out the fact that if you play a game for 5 years it kinda becomes part of you life(even if you dont want too). Being legit for all those years and getting banned for no reason at all... seriously really really really hurts. I know the guy in RL and yes he broken up by the fact, he is been waiting for an answer and waiting....yet no response.
All im saying NCsoft you could threat youre customers a bit better. Im keeping the hope you guys look into it and that we can continue this game since we enjoy it.