A picture says more then a thousend words!
First notice the adena seller shout, you have NCsoft declaring on their main page: Friendly Reminder: Real Money Trading is Bad! Yet this dude has been shouting in Giran for two straight days about selling adena and NCsoft GM's has done nothing about it.
But now to the main issue, I log in the the game and notice the weirdest bug.
Raid Fighters spawning next to me everywhere i go in Giran Town!
Since all in town can see the same thing as I do, I know it is a ingame server issue and not any problem with my client.
So i comment on the "Check Files" Suggestion. After waiting 2 hours actively for a GM reply I go to bed and after total of 12 hours since I petitioned the bug I check my screen for a response.
What do you think I see?
Good Job GM's! You don't even have time to check out my char ingame for one minute instead you just send your "STANDARD AUTOMATED RESPONSE"!
I repetitioned the bug and been sitting waiting for a reply for one hour again but I guess i be lucky to get a response for the next 6 hours or more.
If anyone want's to see the bug feel free to come to newbie buffer in Giran on Aria!
So all I would like to say is: NCsoft Customer Service quality speaks for itself!
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. The in-game petition system has a horrible, HORRIBLE track record for actually helping anyone. Use the help-ticket system on the website. Submit these pictures there.
No it won't get fixed in the next 30 seconds but at least someone will actually look at the issue instead of giving you a canned response that fixes nothing and just gets rid of your petition.
i'm on Aria too, and i saw the raid fighter spawn on Icenheart's toon too !!
Just lol about GM's answer in IG petition. it's showing the disrespect for us, NCSoft's customers.
If u have an issue with your car (broken headlight), and get answer from the mechanic "Change the 4 wheels, it will be better", what will u think about the mech?
Yeah +1, the responses to the petition system would be less insulting, and more helpful if they just auto-closed and told you to go submit to the website instead.
I don't know of a single player that has had anything resolved through an IG petition in the last couple years.
In C3 I remember chatting with a GM about a petition I submitted, it was cool. But it's sad I haven't seen that kind of support for that long.
My favorite is when they ask for more information and then close the petition and make you wait 2 hours for them to answer the next petition and close it out again asking for more information LOL
Yeah +1, the responses to the petition system would be less insulting, and more helpful if they just auto-closed and told you to go submit to the website instead.
I don't know of a single player that has had anything resolved through an IG petition in the last couple years.
In C3 I remember chatting with a GM about a petition I submitted, it was cool. But it's sad I haven't seen that kind of support for that long.
I agree the in game petition system is bad, but it has been slowly getting better under Moxie - not saying it is 100% better, but at least they fixed the auto bot response.
Just for the record, I have been helped via an IG petition from Spam back in the day and even came on to PM with me about it to make sure it worked.
Open a proper ticket on the support site then come back QQing. Seriously.
Everyone who's played L2 for more than a week knows that the 1st line GMs have a set of canned responses, it's no different to the guy who says "Please reboot your modem and computer and try again.".
If you have a proper electronic ticket you can at least track it and type more than a few characters. You can also attach screenshots to back up your case.
I've had many issues resolved on reply #1 or #2 through that system which were completely ignored in game.
Why are you telling him to go open a ticket on the site and then QQ? I take it you mean, go ask them on the site and then come QQ'ing if they don't help you?
Why is it supposed to be normal, common knowledge, that the GM's you reach via petitions who are supposed to help you don't really help? Why are the people trying to reach help via a petition supposed to assume they won't get help?
Not sure if your post is sarcastic or not, purp. I hope it is. Otherwise, remind us not to have you draw up a business model for a company any time soon :x
Why are you telling him to go open a ticket on the site and then QQ? I take it you mean, go ask them on the site and then come QQ'ing if they don't help you?
Why is it supposed to be normal, common knowledge, that the GM's you reach via petitions who are supposed to help you don't really help? Why are the people trying to reach help via a petition supposed to assume they won't get help?
Not sure if your post is sarcastic or not, purp. I hope it is. Otherwise, remind us not to have you draw up a business model for a company any time soon :x
I'm telling it how it is, not how it should be. Re-read what I said, specifically the 2nd part. :)
Of course it's wrong and bad service, but that's how it's been for a long time.
But still no reply on the support page to my ticket from any GM for almost 4 hours now.
Who said that the support page was faster or a better way of contacting support?
Wanna see my QQ? Well no need to, it's been 18 hours since the bug appered and it's still there and no GM has bothered to ask me anything about the matter ingame or on the support page.
I have had serveral other issues petitioned ingame han have had the message say: We have escalated the matter and then later it got sorted but in this case i have not even gotten that!
In the NCsoft world: "We will look into the matter and we will take care of it" is a more accurate way to say: "We'll get to it when we got time and if someone cares to fix the problem but for now live with it it's not like it completely stops you from playing the game".
Hmm, next time it might be a raidboss and not minions that will raid curse and paralyze people in town, who knows?
Icenheart, I did elude in my orignal post that it will take a bit longer for them to get to your ticket to give you a response but it will be answered in a more compitent way than any in-game petition would be.
And sorry purp, I guess I misread your other post. I thought you were saying that it should be a standard assumption by people to not get help from people that are there to help. My badddd, I re-read and understood more what you meant.
I'm curious... below the icon on your taskbar of all your soulshots there is a little hammer... qu'est-ce que c'est?
It's for quick opening your craft book for that item "like a shortcut".
Just open your craft book on your dwarf and drag the item you wanna make to a shortcut to your taskbar. Happy Crafting! :)
I've seen something like this happen before and believe me it will be investigated.
It's not normally until the working week though when more devs are online. I think it's pretty much 1st level over a weekend.
Really does not make so much sence since the weekend is the time when the people play the game most and most likely run into problems that need support.
Sure developers work normal work week but should not the specialized support for instant troubleshooting be working when it's mostly demanded like when the most people are playing the games NCsoft support, weekends that is?
We are not supposed to repost the chat between ourselves and the GM staff.
/slapwrist
LOL! So I can't post anything about it when NCsoft acctually does good! :eek:
What have we learned from my post?
2) They thank me for contacting support!
3) They say they will take it to another level of support ( Like we did not know they had first line, second line and development team )
4) They will contact me about the problem ( It would be bad for me if they diden't, lol. )
5) Put 1 and 1 together, it's the same GM that answered my ingame petition that answered my support page question. ( That's lucky since it's the same person knowing all the facts about my problem. )
As to the: "/slapwrist", in sweden we call that "misshandel" Hahaha!
Serisouly guys, what do you expect from ingame Support ? Do you think they have money to rent 20 differents Gms, watching all petitions ?
If you have a serious bug, use the website support. There are "two" level of answer, the standart answer who could fix most of bugs, and if it's not a "common" bug, the ticket will be upgraded to a senior member who will loo into your problem.
I don't think it's a big problem to spawn Dorian right no, isn't it ? This bug is well known since 4/5 months, if he is not fixed it's only because they didn't find how to reproduce this bug. Instead of crying "I have a raid fighter next me roflmaobugkkthxbye" explain what you were doing,how, all those circunstances. It may probably help.
I have personally used the NCSoft support (from the website) and I always had good answers :)
I don't think it's a big problem to spawn Dorian right no, isn't it ? This bug is well known since 4/5 months, if he is not fixed it's only because they didn't find how to reproduce this bug.
this is our ENTIRE problem.
the GM's dont play the game.
because of this, they know NOTHING. they dont know how to produce the dorian bug, they dont know how to produce the follower buffer WoA angel bug, they dont know how to produce the Ice queen entrance bugs
THEY
KNOW
NOTHING.
if they played the game for any serious length of time or dedication, we'd get somewhere with petitions. instead, we get herp-a-derp answers like Check Files for bugs.
one of several reasons why it has been time to move on for 4 years now.
I don't think it's a big problem to spawn Dorian right no, isn't it ? This bug is well known since 4/5 months, if he is not fixed it's only because they didn't find how to reproduce this bug. Instead of crying "I have a raid fighter next me roflmaobugkkthxbye" explain what you were doing,how, all those circunstances. It may probably help.
OK this is how i created the bug: I logged in my account in giran town!
Same time i logged in and saw my char i saw Dorian and Mina standing on top of me! So now tell me: What did i do to trigger the bug?
Logging on to the game, yes that was my misstake so it's my own fault.
Having to see the bloody fighters spawn inside of me ever 30 sec for 24 hours and then also hearing the sound (yes i play with sound on!) of a vampires moaning every time gets abit annoying. And i waited aslong as i could inorder to give the support/GM's a shot at seeing the bug themselves but i doubt the ever bothered, since it's the dev team to look into these probelms.
And finally i gave up on waiting restarted the client logged back in same problem, logged another toon on the same account in they where still there.
because of this, they know NOTHING. they dont know how to produce the dorian bug, they dont know how to produce the follower buffer WoA angel bug, they dont know how to produce the Ice queen entrance bugs
THEY
KNOW
NOTHING.
if they played the game for any serious length of time or dedication, we'd get somewhere with petitions. instead, we get herp-a-derp answers like Check Files for bugs.
one of several reasons why it has been time to move on for 4 years now.
i have some question..
i send email to support in friday night, and my case was escaleted to senior staff members ..
now is monday 3 pm and no answer yet..is ok i can wait:)
but question is...Gms not work in weekends:)?
if u trying petition in game, u are waiting 5-10hours and no answer...
if u lucky..u have automatic standard answer like "We Game Masters cant answer on gameplay information or answer like " We investigate"
and nothing happn.
oh and ps
Like some1 noticed in other thread we have again spam shouting about game adena (trial accounts)
And after raports i bet many players did that, player who shouting is still in game..
Serisouly guys, what do you expect from ingame Support ? Do you think they have money to rent 20 differents Gms, watching all petitions ?
If you have a serious bug, use the website support. There are "two" level of answer, the standart answer who could fix most of bugs, and if it's not a "common" bug, the ticket will be upgraded to a senior member who will loo into your problem.
I don't think it's a big problem to spawn Dorian right no, isn't it ? This bug is well known since 4/5 months, if he is not fixed it's only because they didn't find how to reproduce this bug. Instead of crying "I have a raid fighter next me roflmaobugkkthxbye" explain what you were doing,how, all those circunstances. It may probably help.
I have personally used the NCSoft support (from the website) and I always had good answers :)
Players expect to get what they pay for. And players don't feel they are getting what they paid for when all you get is either a canned response or non at all. Regardless, of weather the support comes in game or out there is a certain level at which the game developer is responsible for and right now that is next to none.
Technically, you don't have to play the game to provide technical support for it. You would need to provide your support with something other than canned responses though.
Okayl, qualifier first: I'm not an NCSoft fan and think they absolutely blow at customer service.
But I have a couple of questions I think are reasonable to ask......
1) what difference does it make that you logged in and two raid fighters were there in the safe zone? So you petitioned eventually and didn't get a timely answer. So. You were injured how?
2) we often see these rants about bots or gold sellers. "I shouted for GM or petitioned about axhsdkegh and no one showed up immediately to remove him/her....!!!!" So. If they perma ban that toon 3 days later they've attended to your petition.
As much as I agree that NCSoft and the GM's can't even spell "service" if you spot them 6 letters, I sometimes think the player expectations can be high. I'm not saying they were in this case, but often they are.
Since a bot is petitioned in a cata at 3:15pm, I want them to actually disappear in the next 5 minutes!
Well, it may not be possible to do that.
And I don't know the big surprise here, honestly. In work environments all over this country there are IT people who don't get to each comp. user's issue in a matter of minutes.
You send them a complaint/problem. Eventually they issue a ticket. They update the ticket later. They send you a canned "is your computer on?"---"is your monitor on?" kind of B.S. auto reply. You re-escalate the ticket.
Eventually (days) someone calls you and asks you the same stupid questions. After a week they do PCAnywhere and go "oh, this had to be changed--there ya go". Problem solved.
This is pretty standard these days throughout the country. One reason it feels frustrating is because we now employ thousands of fragile, narcissistic, self-deluded, A.D.D kids who are convinced that THEIR interruption should be the top priority for the company's support departments.
Perhaps the IT people were planned to do something more important than immediately reply to you.
Likewise in L2, just maybe the GM is actually working on something more important. You're #12 in line--but as he/she gets through #9, they get notified that cata mobs aren't spawning on Sayha and that takes priority over your silly little issue.
I'm not giving them a pass. They could have been playing WoW at their monitors and ignoring you. But we don't know.
Play the game and stop whining is my general feedback. Perhaps if you weren't needy, fragile, and constantly generating petitions you could play the game and GM's could attend to priorities.
I'd personally rather have them investigate and ban 2 cheating heroes than answer your petition about a missing item you were responsible for losing in the first place.
As much as I agree that NCSoft and the GM's can't even spell "service" if you spot them 6 letters, I sometimes think the player expectations can be high. I'm not saying they were in this case, but often they are.
Since a bot is petitioned in a cata at 3:15pm, I want them to actually disappear in the next 5 minutes!
Well, it may not be possible to do that.
1) what difference does it make that you logged in and two raid fighters were there in the safe zone? So you petitioned eventually and didn't get a timely answer. So. You were injured how?
Dunno, but if these raid fighters keep spawning every few seconds WHEREVER YOU GO and on every character that you log in from that account, I guess that COULD get annoying after a while. Especially if you go xp, hit next target and attack one of them. And that is totally ignoring that the sound effects of the female vampire are some of the most annoying in the game.
Technically perhaps, but you have no way of knowing that.
is there one GM? 3? 7? 21?
Are they each receiving one petition an hour? 30? 500?
Of the petitions they recieve, does your petition remain an absolute priority or are some petitions more important than your 4th bot report today?
You don't have a clue what their GM's are or are not doing.
I'll grant you, I think they are ing around most of the time and generally worthless--but we can't know for sure.
As I said, the way the GM's "attend" to requests for help is exactly like the standard in the country for IT support in many work places. They are delivering the same level of service that is taken for granted in business today--basically because your typical IT worker is a slacker with no other discernable skills who wants to sit in meetings and discuss the expanding universe theory rather than fix computer problems. ((edit: for those IT folks who are tireless and do solve problems and who are invaluable--and there are a few--I wasn't indicating everyone in the industry with the above mini-rant!!)
I'm just saying, it's POSSIBLE that they are doing okay by their own metrics and that part of the problem is generated by impatient players who think everything they type deserves immediate elevation to "mission critical" status!
We don't know for sure what is possible within their system--they've never even hinted at their resource allocation and approach protocols. We see only slices of their operational response.
OK this is how i created the bug: I logged in my account in giran town!
(...)
And finally i gave up on waiting restarted the client logged back in same problem, logged another toon on the same account in they where still there.
It's not like it's messing with my gameplay now is it, or? :mad:
Stupid question.
Have you tried to make party to kill RB?
It would be cool to have your own farm-able RB :)
Technically perhaps, but you have no way of knowing that.
is there one GM? 3? 7? 21?
Are they each receiving one petition an hour? 30? 500?
Of the petitions they recieve, does your petition remain an absolute priority or are some petitions more important than your 4th bot report today?
You don't have a clue what their GM's are or are not doing.
I'll grant you, I think they are ing around most of the time and generally worthless--but we can't know for sure.
As I said, the way the GM's "attend" to requests for help is exactly like the standard in the country for IT support in many work places. They are delivering the same level of service that is taken for granted in business today--basically because your typical IT worker is a slacker with no other discernable skills who wants to sit in meetings and discuss the expanding universe theory rather than fix computer problems. ((edit: for those IT folks who are tireless and do solve problems and who are invaluable--and there are a few--I wasn't indicating everyone in the industry with the above mini-rant!!)
I'm just saying, it's POSSIBLE that they are doing okay by their own metrics and that part of the problem is generated by impatient players who think everything they type deserves immediate elevation to "mission critical" status!
We don't know for sure what is possible within their system--they've never even hinted at their resource allocation and approach protocols. We see only slices of their operational response.
They the second you log in that's a certainty. Regardless, of weather you want to admit or GM's do that doesn't really matter. They do know who is and who isn't the second you login. It's not that hard to tell.
It doesn't matter if there 1 GM or 1000 quality of a response makes no difference. "Mission Critical" has no bearing on this whatsoever. They are not even reading the petitions.
And you see more than slices, you do not need to "look under the hood" to know that. And you don't need to know there resource allocation and approach protocols to know this.
There is one GM on Sunday night. He/she has 22 petitions to review--most of which have already gotten the standard auto-reply.
You petition "help, I've lost my ebayed weapon!!!" (although perhaps not in those exact words).
15 seconds later, 10 petitions arrive saying "the mobs are gone from catas on Sayha".
8 hours of contacts and work by your single "Sun Nite GM" and other people called in, the Sayha folks still don't have mobs in their catas.
On Monday 2 GM's show up and the "Sunday night GM" goes home. Still working on Sayha and now there are 40 petitions in the list--including your lost weapon claim.
Did they do a good job? A rotten job? I mean overall--not just for you personally.
Should they have ignored Sayha's server issue to check logs to see if you are lying about your lost weapon?
They already know that 99.9% of the time they aren't even responsible to replace your lost weapon--but there you sit on Monday afternoon with 2-3 auto replies complaining furiously about their horrible work.
Was it horrible?
If they had 15 people working and this was the same outcome--they were horrible. If there was one and depending upon real priorities that arrived, perhaps it was "good enough".
That's all I'm saying. Without knowing a lot of detail about their system, the most accurate statement an individual player can make is "I'm mad and dissatisfied with the response or lack of response".
There is one GM on Sunday ht. He/she has 22 petitions to review--most of which have already gotten the standard auto-reply.
You petition "help, I've lost my ebayed weapon!!!" (although perhaps not in those exact words).
15 seconds later, 10 petitions arrive saying "the mobs are gone from catas on Sayha".
8 hours of contacts and work by your single "Sun Nite GM" and other people called in, the Sayha folks still don't have mobs in their catas.
On Monday 2 GM's show up and the "Sunday ht GM" goes home. Still working on Sayha and now there are 40 petitions in the list--including your lost weapon claim.
Did they do a good job? A rotten job? I mean overall--not just for you personally.
Should they have ignored Sayha's server issue to check logs to see if you are lying about your lost weapon?
They already know that 99.9% of the time they aren't even responsible to replace your lost weapon--but there you sit on Monday afternoon with 2-3 auto replies complaining furiously about their horrible work.
Was it horrible?
If they had 15 people working and this was the same outcome--they were horrible. If there was one and depending upon real priorities that arrived, perhaps it was "good enough".
That's all I'm saying. Without knowing a lot of detail about their system, the most accurate statement an individual player can make is "I'm mad and dissatisfied with the response or lack of response".
Everything you are talking about is assumptions about communication. Not functionality, processes, or methods.
Drakkos, I understand where you're coming from in your posts, and no one was sustained serious bodily injury from having a delay in their answer. I think the major point is -- they aren't even giving an answer ever. It's not like it comes 3 days later, it doesn't come at all. All they do is give a canned response that has NOTHING to do with the bug/incident being reported and then they slam the e-door (petition) closed on the customers face. (Talking specifically about in-game support here, not website tickets.)
I don't know why people are trying to justify the inadequacies of the GM's we have right now. Do you not understand that a more cohesive support team in game creates higher morale and better community interactions? Including but not limited to member retention?
Drakkos, I understand where you're coming from in your posts, and no one was sustained serious bodily injury from having a delay in their answer. I think the major point is -- they aren't even giving an answer ever. It's not like it comes 3 days later, it doesn't come at all. All they do is give a canned response that has NOTHING to do with the bug/incident being reported and then they slam the e-door (petition) closed on the customers face. (Talking specifically about in-game support here, not website tickets.)
I don't know why people are trying to justify the inadequacies of the GM's we have right now. Do you not understand that a more cohesive support team in game creates higher morale and better community interactions? Including but not limited to member retention?
My point is Drakkos, this is a communication, culture, leadership issue. It doesn't have anything to do with processes or the length of time it takes. I have no problem waiting for days for answer with substance. In my honest opinion this should be resolved via the unemployment line.
No disagreement with you or XelliB. It's pitiful--and it always has been.
There isn't any hope it will change either--because it's cultural in their organization. Much smaller companies carry off better customer service than NCSoft. That's an established fact and I've seen it myself in other games.
All that being agreed, a 'good' answer 4 days down the road may be "we're ignoring you and your stupid idea" (of course worded with the psychobabble all IT depts use).
I'm just saying for that player, the answer causes a whine rant on the forums, which gets tagged by the community as another example of poor service. It's "possible" that the answer was the right one and came in the right time frame.
They deserve 99% of the criticism. That doesn't mean they never get it right. 1000 petitions and 500 of them get an answer and life goes on--it's still failing, but it isn't "nothing".
We all want to rant about our petition as one of the 500 that didn't get resolved. Okay. That's fair. But it doesn't necessarily prove they NEVER get one right.
I'll grant you failing is failing. I'll also counter that 2/3 of the playing population arrives at lvl 79+ in about 2 months from cheating and doesn't understand the merest fraction of the game platform--which suggests to me that those 2/3 probably generate nuisance petitions in significant #'s that didn't have to happen.
Can the players (to be generous with the term) be partly responsible for failures in the support system? They can be in some cases.
Doesn't excuse an incompetent system. Same time, why discuss one without talking about the other?
No disagreement with you or XelliB. It's pitiful--and it always has been.
There isn't any hope it will change either--because it's cultural in their organization. Much smaller companies carry off better customer service than NCSoft. That's an established fact and I've seen it myself in other games.
All that being agreed, a 'good' answer 4 days down the road may be "we're ignoring you and your stupid idea" (of course worded with the psychobabble all IT depts use).
I'm just saying for that player, the answer causes a whine rant on the forums, which gets tagged by the community as another example of poor service. It's "possible" that the answer was the right one and came in the right time frame.
They deserve 99% of the criticism. That doesn't mean they never get it right. 1000 petitions and 500 of them get an answer and life goes on--it's still failing, but it isn't "nothing".
We all want to rant about our petition as one of the 500 that didn't get resolved. Okay. That's fair. But it doesn't necessarily prove they NEVER get one right.
I'll grant you failing is failing. I'll also counter that 2/3 of the playing population arrives at lvl 79+ in about 2 months from cheating and doesn't understand the merest fraction of the game platform--which suggests to me that those 2/3 probably generate nuisance petitions in significant #'s that didn't have to happen.
Can the players (to be generous with the term) be partly responsible for failures in the support system? They can be in some cases.
Doesn't excuse an incompetent system. Same time, why discuss one without talking about the other?
My 2 cents at least.
~D~
I will say this though and I am fairly sure everyone else feels the same. Right now the only person that cares about customer service that the community can actually see with there responses is Sace.
on march 11th i saw these same to rb fighters just outside of goddard near the grendel area i do have screen shots of them...they kept appearing and then gone over and over at least 2 hours..............to this is not just limited to giran...but i think most important is the char standing near gk in giran spamming to sell adena...it goes on and on ...seems like someone can find out the ip or watevar...to stop that account \
on march 11th i saw these same to rb fighters just outside of goddard near the grendel area i do have screen shots of them...they kept appearing and then gone over and over at least 2 hours..............to this is not just limited to giran...but i think most important is the char standing near gk in giran spamming to sell adena...it goes on and on ...seems like someone can find out the ip or watevar...to stop that account \
I have been playing L2 since C1 and I have discovered that even though I love the game NCsoft had never been one for its technical support. In my opinion NCsoft is the worst online gaming company when it comes to player support.
As for the bots, adena sellers and mindless characters in town spamming gold buying (I have submitted 3 tickets already, nothing done) you can complain, cry and threaten to quit the game all you want and NCsoft will not care nor will it generally take any action (except of course to remove posts or banning forum users).
It is like the trial accounts. The last time they did it they had the same problems with characters spamming gold buying websites, and even then nothing was done even though players complained and submitted tickets. So what do they do, bring it back and get the same things all over again.
Tickets and Petitions are treated with a generic, pre-written response that I feel is never even looked at. More than once I have submitted something, and the response was it will be escalated and if more info is needed they will e-mail me... of course days go by and nothing is done, and the same bots and spammers are still there.
For one of the largest online gaming companies around they do not care much about how their players feel. They have areas in the forums for suggestions and other reports, but do they do anything or accept anything? Hardly ever so why do they even have these sections?
The bottom line is that NCsoft NA does not care about us, as long as they have paying subscribers they are happy.
How much you want to bet this post will get removed or perhaps my forums account banned? :)
Just my two cents, and I am going to continue playing even with the negative things about the game.
what lack of knowledge? for crimeny sakes i stated 3 instances of bugs ive seen with my own eyes and have known what they are for years.
i dont pretend to know how to fix them, do not infer that.
but i know these are not bugs you simply "check files" away. ive given more technical help posts in the past 5 years than i care to remember; ive answered more player questions than any other player on the forums, bar none.
the "lack of knowledge" you are implying i have, would only be with reference to the 3 possibly 4 areas of the game ive not experienced, and for which there are no pages and pages of data to cite and pour through.
you can take your "lack of knowledge" and go somewhere else for a lark. you demonstrate your own lack of knowledge by claiming that i have more.
what lack of knowledge? for crimeny sakes i stated 3 instances of bugs ive seen with my own eyes and have known what they are for years.
i dont pretend to know how to fix them, do not infer that.
but i know these are not bugs you simply "check files" away. ive given more technical help posts in the past 5 years than i care to remember; ive answered more player questions than any other player on the forums, bar none.
the "lack of knowledge" you are implying i have, would only be with reference to the 3 possibly 4 areas of the game ive not experienced, and for which there are no pages and pages of data to cite and pour through.
you can take your "lack of knowledge" and go somewhere else for a lark. you demonstrate your own lack of knowledge by claiming that i have more.
Spud, for how much time you spend on these forums your reaction to people countering you never ceases to amaze me. People in this game are dramatic. People post about me, I just blow it off. Don't get so defensive, it just fuels their fire.
Just keep posting help and doing what you like to do. If they don't like it, they don't have to read your posts.
And just because I can't help it after reading your post (and I mean this in a silly way) -- "Huge Ego, party of 1." LOL ^_^
Spud, you have shown in the past how little you know about the game. And you have been wrong on numerous occasions.
You used to say you were guessing an answer, and if you were wrong, hey the worst thing that could happen was that someone came and corrected you, but at least you helped the discussion get moving.
What happens when someone blurts out something false, and ppl are too tired to correct him? The noobs would listen coz of your thousands of posts, and think you knew things.
Also, you have trouble admitting when you are wrong, and have been caught outright lieing on the forums (remember the pic of you with the paper crown, that you later said wasnt your real pic, and now you have posted another pic of yourself in the Players of L2 thread, and it actually was you...)
<--- sits down on the ground, takes out beer, fire sticks, sharpens the mithril dagger and splits pig into 2 pieces, starts up the fire and getting ready to eat** keep fighting guys i love iT!!!
All lineage2 players, with or without knowledge on how to play the game better, to ALL OF YOU Respect!
Sace come rescue us.!
<--- sits down on the ground, takes out beer, fire sticks, sharpens the mithril dagger and splits pig into 2 pieces, starts up the fire and getting ready to eat** keep fighting guys i love iT!!!
All lineage2 players, with or without knowledge on how to play the game better, to ALL OF YOU Respect!
Sace come rescue us.!
plop down next too kirill waiting for the fire and a beer to share
Spud, you have shown in the past how little you know about the game. And you have been wrong on numerous occasions.
You used to say you were guessing an answer, and if you were wrong, hey the worst thing that could happen was that someone came and corrected you, but at least you helped the discussion get moving.
What happens when someone blurts out something false, and ppl are too tired to correct him? The noobs would listen coz of your thousands of posts, and think you knew things.
Also, you have trouble admitting when you are wrong, and have been caught outright lieing on the forums (remember the pic of you with the paper crown, that you later said wasnt your real pic, and now you have posted another pic of yourself in the Players of L2 thread, and it actually was you...)
But ya, im the one that cant retort lol.
there you have it folks... posting pictures of yourself means you know squat about the game.
what a non sequitur argument. the best i've ever heard. pigeons let loose on cars because the grass is Red.
srsly, smittie, cite some example of me not knowing anything.
and yes i'll admit some things i guessed at. after all, one person having played 6 years (almost) can't quite possibly have read up (at least) on things places or persons. no, you have to have in-game experience, be 85 in every class before answering any sort of question, and then nobody would second guess you because obviously all those levels and classes were done legit within 6 years
double standard more.
ETA: my pic of my paper crown was taken about 3 years before the game even started. before L2 came into existence. it is one of the few pics that i have of myself, as one tends to not take one's own picture very often unless one is very vain. since the taking of the pic i have changed quite a lot, and pics have been posted of me after those changes. if you care nothing for current affairs but would like to reside in the past then by all means assume that i am a 110kilo level 40 bishop who likes to QQ about Reds. because obviously you are blind to current events.
that dorion one gets about a bit, few months back he used to spawn on an academy toon i was playing in either heretics or pilgrims (forget which!) cant say i thought anything of it cos at the time i was getting lots of wierd glitches like swimming under the ground :-S
there you have it folks... posting pictures of yourself means you know squat about the game.
what a non sequitur argument. the best i've ever heard. pigeons let loose on cars because the grass is Red.
srsly, smittie, cite some example of me not knowing anything.
and yes i'll admit some things i guessed at. after all, one person having played 6 years (almost) can't quite possibly have read up (at least) on things places or persons. no, you have to have in-game experience, be 85 in every class before answering any sort of question, and then nobody would second guess you because obviously all those levels and classes were done legit within 6 years
double standard more.
ETA: my pic of my paper crown was taken about 3 years before the game even started. before L2 came into existence. it is one of the few pics that i have of myself, as one tends to not take one's own picture very often unless one is very vain. since the taking of the pic i have changed quite a lot, and pics have been posted of me after those changes. if you care nothing for current affairs but would like to reside in the past then by all means assume that i am a 110kilo level 40 bishop who likes to QQ about Reds. because obviously you are blind to current events.
KK HF TYBB
The point isnt the picture, its the fact that you claimed it wasnt you, when it actually was. Which makes you guilty of telling a lie.
FYI I have 0 lvl 85's. I dont even have one lvl 80 toon yet lol.
I have however played most of the classes in game, and do retain some knowledge of their gameplay. I have been the owner of Oren castle, and I have done numerous sieges. And I have never quit the game from prelude til now. I read patch notes, and I try different things in the game.
This is what makes me be able to answer questions instead of guessing, which is what you did, and you were proven wrong on many occasions. That is when you started arguing that it was for the better that you guessed even if it was wrong, because ppl would come correct you and the OP would still get their answers.
So to sum it up, your post count just means you are clogging the internet with waste.
In Korea, the moment you do /GM you are immediately distracted by a cute puppet until the pain is gone, and afterwards you receive a lolly and a smiley sticker for being so brave.
i really could tell you anything. maybe i owned Rune on Aria. perhaps i owned Oren on Sayha.
you'd have to believe me.
No, I'd check on the server and its history, or in the worst case ask someone who was there. No point of dragging belief into something which I can verify easily.
Really - I'm just interested. After all, you claimed to having owned one in the past.
Have we crossed some imaginary boundary where only people who are "ALWAYS right" are valuable as part of the posting community?
Perhaps many others wouldn't agree, but I think there are times when I'm a valuable addition to a topic--and I've been wrong on a number of things.
Not two weeks ago I had to post an apology because I really didn't know a dwarf could "destroy" an item and it would crystalize. I was flat wrong.
I don't think that precludes me from adding an opinion on a topic I might know about or trying to make someone chuckle or giving hard earned advice to a newbie's question.
Since when "can only those who are always right post and have any value?"
Newsflash for ya all--if that is the standard, most of you aren't going to be left standing either.
More than 1/2 of the posts on these threads in the years I've been here have been DISCUSSIONS about OPINIONS--not facts.
There are a lot more posts asking, "what server should I join" or "what melee class should I pick" than there are ones that ask for a specific game fact/detail.
And if we're 'sharing opinions' then it would seem many experienced players would have some value in the discussion.
I must have been on a break when the "perfect people only" forum rules were posted.
~D~
No, I'd check on the server and its history, or in the worst case ask someone who was there. No point of dragging belief into something which I can verify easily.
Really - I'm just interested. After all, you claimed to having owned one in the past.
actually at this, now that i think of it, you are wrong on both points.
a) you could not check easily.
b) i never claimed to have owned a castle.
you inferred that i did, based on my query "what makes you think i didnt"
which clearly does not infer anything but asks a question - how does one arrive at the conclusion that i did not own a castle, or do any of the things summarized paragraphedly by Smittie.
actually at this, now that i think of it, you are wrong on both points.
Let's see.
a) you could not check easily.
Because, clearly, you are the only one of your server who remembers or records the history. And I clearly couldn't just log in and mail a couple of people on your server and ask them nicely. Not possible.
b) i never claimed to have owned a castle.
you inferred that i did, based on my query "what makes you think i didnt"
which clearly does not infer anything but asks a question - how does one arrive at the conclusion that i did not own a castle, or do any of the things summarized paragraphedly by Smittie.
Ah, but it does infer something.
There are two possibilities here:
1. You owned a castle. In which case, which was it? I'm really curious. It's a simple question, with a simple answer. The fact you refuse to answer it makes us think you didn't some of the things Smittie did.
2. You didn't own a castle. In which case, you answer your own question of "What makes you think I didn't do any of the things Smittie did?" by admitting that you didn't one of the things Smittie did.
Because, clearly, you are the only one of your server who remembers or records the history. And I clearly couldn't just log in and mail a couple of people on your server and ask them nicely. Not possible.
Ah, but it does infer something.
There are two possibilities here:
1. You owned a castle. In which case, which was it? I'm really curious. It's a simple question, with a simple answer. The fact you refuse to answer it makes us think you didn't some of the things Smittie did.
2. You didn't own a castle. In which case, you answer your own question of "What makes you think I didn't do any of the things Smittie did?" by admitting that you didn't one of the things Smittie did.
no dude. i played Devianne from Prelude to c4, moved to Lionna, been on aria since. so would you like to email people from Devianne who were on from Prelude to C4 (maybe theres 20 live players left from that era) or would you like to shoot for people who have likely played on Kain (half of aria) and dont know me from Adam? what makes you so sure any of those players of Kain (or aria) are players who were not bots, or were involved with me centric to their server at the time? surely i myself am not the center of any circle (past or present) for those who play my current server today.
my personal history is personal. if you care enough about a claim from me to go digging into such extreme lengths, then i really need to start sending you support payment cheques. you are my biggest fan.
truly, i can answer your "what castles did you own" question with any answer i can imagine. you would have no way of knowing the truth. it is useless to answer you.
but now i beg the question
What makes you so sure i just gave you my personal history instead of inventing a Lie ?
whatever relevance there was to "i owned X castle during Y chronicle" surely gives much more credit to current and accurate game information. surely if i am basing my information on knowledge from C4, you would have every right to correct me, as there have been many many changes to castles and the owning of them since this time.
surely, you accept the fact (not the opinion) that whatever information is true today, will likely be wrong come next update?
given Smittie's silence i can only assume he (or she) has been digging through the forums high and low for a post of mine where i detail an uneducated ignorant guess at some data that i've not experienced.
let me give you a hit, if it happened over 90 pages ago, its likely to be a very old post with no current accuracy or meaning.
What makes you so sure i just gave you my personal history instead of inventing a Lie ?
It's irrelevant. While getting a direct answer to my questions from time to time is nice, getting to know what I really wanted to know is the ultimate goal. It might correlate with what I actually asked, it might not. In any case, I tend to get my intel. :)
For the record: If I felt the need to actually verify what you wrote, I'd start with asking Olorae nicely about you as well as some relatively unrelated info, and working my way backwards and forwards in time. Fortunately for me, I don't need to do it to know what I wanted to know. :)
surely, you accept the fact (not the opinion) that whatever information is true today, will likely be wrong come next update?
Most information true today about the game will still be true after the next update, or only slightly modified. For example: I was managing the castle manor at the beginning of 2007 the first time (when Unity held Schuttgart on Teon; I wasn't the clan leader then, BlessTheChild still lwas), and January 2009 for the last time (when we had Dion). In these two years nothing significant changed about the manor. Since then, only some of the crops changed, as well as the amount of them slightly due to territory wars.
In general, castle ownership changed very little for the clan leader since then. Sure, you need it to get clan level 10+, and there is a shop now in the castle, and next update the mercenaries will get slightly useful, but these are just small iterative changes. The fact that someone did, or didn't, held a castle on a real, life server is still important to estimate how knowledgeable this person will be about the castle ownership, even if it was four years ago.
Hence, me wondering if you owned a castle, and which one (since they tend to have their unique features which might colour what you think you know about castle ownership if you only owned one).
given Smittie's silence i can only assume he (or she) has been digging through the forums high and low for a post of mine where i detail an uneducated ignorant guess at some data that i've not experienced.
I didn't see Smittie online on this forum since about 12 hours, so I assume he's still at work or something like that. Just a guess. :)
Ya, I was at work. Gotta make money to pay for my 6 accounts you know lol.
Spudnik: Ppl who have not played this game very long (aka noobs) see your post count (thousands of posts, most ) and your green dots (farmed with you and your buddies before they changed the system) and think you acutally know stuff about this game.
So when you (or your fellow noobs, who all had me in sig quotes for a while, and some still do) post something that is just bad advice or incorrect, me and other ppl who actually know stuff, come here and correct you.
If you dont like that, stop giving bad advice bud.
If you dont like that, stop giving bad advice bud.
But smittie, this is my point from earlier. "Advice" could be game FACTS, ie: a dynasty set bonus gives a patk of "x" (I wouldn't know-lol).
In those cases I can see where knowing the actual fact or being able to provide that actual fact is important.
But "advice" on these forums often isn't simply a regurgitated fact. Certainly we should all try to be accurate when giving detailed, fact answers.
"Advice" also means answers to a ton of questions like, "what's the most fun ranged DD to play?" or "what's the strongest nuker after 76?" or "what class can I solo to 76+ the fastest?"
Those kinds of answers have as much personal experience in them as anything else. If I had the easiest time getting to 65 on a SH, then my reply that a SH can be easy to solo to 76 is just as valuable as someone else' OPINION.
For the record, I'v known Spud a long time on various servers and followed his posts here as well. He's no more perfect than anyone else I suppose. Meaning he's bound to quote a fact wrong or miss a point as much as the next guy.
I also KNOW (not opinion) that he has played many classes in this game her than anyone else I've personally played with.
That might not make him an expert on all things for all classes--but I consider him a very solid resource on many things in our game.
He helps more new players to the server than anyone I know as well, he always has.
Coupled with that he is a pretty voracious reader and has been very active on the PTS as well.
Again, I'm not arguing he or anyone is flawless. At the same time, he has a lot of very good and reliable information and I count on him for a lot of tips and assists and he is nearly always right in-game.
Criticizing others never makes one look superior--just small. That's just food for thought imo.
You're also a pretty polarizing poster for many on these forums. I tend to rely upon what you share and I look forward to your posts. I doubt you are flawless or perfect in all your answers either.
The "community table" is pretty large. There is value in a lot of opinions, even those that disagree.
"Advice" pertaining to this game is as much opinion, very often, as it is detailed fact recall.
Ya, I was at work. Gotta make money to pay for my 6 accounts you know lol.
Spudnik: Ppl who have not played this game very long (aka noobs) see your post count (thousands of posts, most ) and your green dots (farmed with you and your buddies before they changed the system) and think you acutally know stuff about this game.
So when you (or your fellow noobs, who all had me in sig quotes for a while, and some still do) post something that is just bad advice or incorrect, me and other ppl who actually know stuff, come here and correct you.
If you dont like that, stop giving bad advice bud.
the people who think those things are the people who don't belong on the internet for any reason and should seek Hari-Kari immediately.
everyone who has spent 5 minutes on any forum knows there are high post counters, there are know it all trolls, there are people who know what they are talking abou, and there are fanboys of said forum archetypes.
people with high post counts dont HAVE to know it all. some forums, yes, this is the case. others with a lax posting policy (like this one and THOUSANDS OF OTHERS spanning millions of websites) just have people posting conversationally, artificially, and out of sheer habit.
if you happen to think that Lineage2 is one of those esoteric webrings like DIYAudio (where if you are wrong, you are BAL33TED) or seekers of the north star (where chit chat and homestar runner are taboo) you need your head examined.
you take the game way too seriously for me to comment on your "dont like it dont post" attitude.
omg rofl you guys have totally destroyed the whole purpose of this thread. You can all bookmark this as example of how you each do something negative to a thread.