due to a series of unforeseeable events, Freya update has been canceled for NCSoft NA clients.
the eastern markets are in the middle of roll backs to pre Freya character information, it's a pretty nasty Ordeal.
due to a series of unforeseeable events, Freya update has been canceled for NCSoft NA clients.
the eastern markets are in the middle of roll backs to pre Freya character information, it's a pretty nasty Ordeal.
Freya is coming but we don't have an exact date yet. When we do, we will post it. :)
LIES. Any competent project manager would have an expected release date. Go pull out the project file and look for the milestone at the very end. What is that date!?
Freya is coming but we don't have an exact date yet. When we do, we will post it. :)
Could we get a Vague date? like a certain month? Or even perhaps a certain 2 months? like August perhaps? Maybe August/September? I think we could do with an even vague description, Hell I'm sure we could go with something cryptic like "The average time of year when the sun starts to set at 6:32pm in Seattle". Anything but Soonâ„¢.
LIES. Any competent project manager would have an expected release date. Go pull out the project file and look for the milestone at the very end. What is that date!?
The problem is that NCNA might not know because NCK has not told them. but yes as others have said, I think that NCNA could say something like "3rd quarter of this year" and we would be ok with it.
They are busy messing the translation, as always. Ready for a "Prayer - Raise the recovery M.Atk effect by healing magic on the yourself when the buff is on"?
:rolleyes:
I don't want to be part of the rumor mill, but I had read (in my very crappy Korean) at ALL buffers would resceive "Warcryer Style" buffs.
My first leap was to assume that this meant all buffers would be using party buffs essentially. Makes sense enough for me since No one plays anything but WC these days, now everyone can a WC and just pick your race sprite.
i was under the impression...
it was High level Warcryer buffs.
as in Chant of Blood Awakening...
and maybe Chant of Magus.
although only thing i have seen followed up on is that prophets will get combo VR/Haste... which will further stick SEs down into the lowest buffer category.
not even the Koreans know how that will go as that kind of info has not even been released yet there.. the Korean dev team is waiting until after the world football champ. so how about we wait until it get's announced and we have something solid to talk about besides speculating like this ?
not even the Koreans know how that will go as that kind of info has not even been released yet there.. the Korean dev team is waiting until after the world football champ. so how about we wait until it get's announced and we have something solid to talk about besides speculating like this ?
Why, they cant even send in a correct roster? (yes i know thats north and not south but who cares.
i was under the impression...
it was High level Warcryer buffs.
as in Chant of Blood Awakening...
and maybe Chant of Magus.
although only thing i have seen followed up on is that prophets will get combo VR/Haste... which will further stick SEs down into the lowest buffer category.
SEs are anywhere but the bottom... probably the clossest you can get to the WC.
EEs suck, I don't play one, and I don't really play with them. When you think about what a player contributes to a party/duo and compare it to what they take, the EE just doesn't offer as much as other classes. PP buffs like a crazy person, SE buffs equally well and Heals AND debuffs mobs. WC is the only better options. What can EEs do? heal? wow... use a Bishop.
EEs need some love, hopefully they will get some this update.
I read that domi is gonna get combi haste/vr, greater might of paagrio and greater shield of paagrio. Plus resilience of paagrio (combi buff with all resists in one)!
NOOOOOO, the resists were like the 1 reason people wanted a PP... Fine take them, but it can't have a + effectiveness option... if it does all elements and you can +for resist I may very well snap.
NOOOOOO, the resists were like the 1 reason people wanted a PP... Fine take them, but it can't have a + effectiveness option... if it does all elements and you can +for resist I may very well snap.
Resilience of Paagrio - level 74: For 40 minutes produces effect of defense against element of dark, divine, fire, water, earth and wind to the power of 30.
oh, so like the elemental protection buff but twice the duration, includes earth, and can buff everyone in the party and clan on 1 buff... god i hate orcs >>
NOOOOOO, the resists were like the 1 reason people wanted a PP... Fine take them, but it can't have a + effectiveness option... if it does all elements and you can +for resist I may very well snap.
Well TBH it will remove the need to box PP in pvp... I know it will sux for 2 or 3 remaining live PPs, but...
Few months ago I would say oh great , again NC removes some depth from the game, but since last live PP, that I knew quitted, I /care :)
SEs are anywhere but the bottom... probably the clossest you can get to the WC.
EEs suck, I don't play one, and I don't really play with them. When you think about what a player contributes to a party/duo and compare it to what they take, the EE just doesn't offer as much as other classes. PP buffs like a crazy person, SE buffs equally well and Heals AND debuffs mobs. WC is the only better options. What can EEs do? heal? wow... use a Bishop.
EEs need some love, hopefully they will get some this update.
Are you crazy? :P
POWater for healers, shieldbuff, 80% rez (you would appreciate it if you played cardi, and you or your party didn't have infinite sources of adena to pay for brezes), better cast speed for start. If you go higher blessing of eva too.
And if your SE will take trance for olympiad instead of some usefull EE buff, like resist shock, you're screwed too :)
SEs are anywhere but the bottom... probably the clossest you can get to the WC.
EEs suck, I don't play one, and I don't really play with them. When you think about what a player contributes to a party/duo and compare it to what they take, the EE just doesn't offer as much as other classes. PP buffs like a crazy person, SE buffs equally well and Heals AND debuffs mobs. WC is the only better options. What can EEs do? heal? wow... use a Bishop.
EEs need some love, hopefully they will get some this update.
EEs Heal, Recharge, and provide decent defensive buffs.
The biggest nerfs EEs got is Skill Link. Allowing SEs to take 4 skills while EEs and Cardinals got only 1 is a huge nerf to EEs, because they were always in worse shape than SE's IMO. The only thing SE's lacked was a heal, but they buffed ******edly better than EEs NCSoft needed to do nothing more than lower the casting speed of Greater Heal/Greater Group Heal and allow SEs to get the Max Level of both of those skills and OE them. Instead, they went the bandaid route.
With 4 Skill Links, SEs are able to get everything that made which made an EE attractive to a party, whilst sacrificing nothing. They are like the Warcryers of the Elder archetype - way too good - at the moment.
That is what happens when you listen to people that do nothing but cry, instead of developing sensible changes
POWater for healers, shieldbuff, 80% rez (you would appreciate it if you played cardi, and you or your party didn't have infinite sources of adena to pay for brezes), better cast speed for start. If you go higher blessing of eva too.
And if your SE will take trance for olympiad instead of some usefull EE buff, like resist shock, you're screwed too :)
Any SE with a brain will have a Heretic Transform learned. That's at least a 70% Rez, most likely higher. You should have Clan Luck II at this point in the game, even if you're in an alt clan, Lol.
Any SE with a brain will have a Heretic Transform learned. That's at least a 70% Rez, most likely higher. You should have Clan Luck II at this point in the game, even if you're in an alt clan, Lol.
And heretic helps a lot when you take 3-4 deaths in pvp, especially if it happen to be one sided war. Anyway even if it is 2-sided, 20% rez is not funny. When there is opportunity to use heretic, you relase to ch, cause your se is as much dead as you :S
I wrote clearly, you will appreciate it only if you play cardi. You don't play card, so you don't understand :)
And heretic helps a lot when you take 3-4 deaths in pvp, especially if it happen to be one sided war. Anyway even if it is 2-sided, 20% rez is not funny. When there is opportunity to use heretic, you relase to ch, cause your se is as much dead as you :S
I wrote clearly, you will appreciate it only if you play cardi. You don't play card, so you don't understand :)
It's more like a 27% Rez, and I thought you were talking about PvE. In PvP a brez doesn't take long to cast. SE's can take Mass Rez, as well.
In PvP you do what you have to do, but only a ******ed Cardinal will insist on taking an EE over an SE in PvE or PvP. SEs are too good to leave behind these days. Block Shield, Stigma, Decent Heals, Good Buffs, Debuff Resistance, a good prophecy, Recharges, etc.
I don't necessarily consider prophecy difference to be much of a factor. Most people will just use CoV or VoP and call it a day.
Most PvP these days happen during PvE, so if you die with an EE you'll probably be further back than if you had an SE. The SE will actually let you XP faster than an EE would, for obvious reasons. EEs are the gimp Elder. A high % Rez is not enough to make them viable (in comparison to SE).
It's a balance comment. SEs and EEs are not properly balanced against each other.
If someone wants to play an Elder, there is practically no reason to play an EE over an SE, except... a higher % rez.
Players should always make balance choices based on how their class performs at [near] end-game levels. In S Grade, there is no comparison between the two.
Yes, they do what they must do. They don't really have a choice...
It's more like a 27% Rez, and I thought you were talking about PvE. In PvP a brez doesn't take long to cast. SE's can take Mass Rez, as well.
In PvP you do what you have to do, but only a ******ed Cardinal will insist on taking an EE over an SE in PvE or PvP. SEs are too good to leave behind these days. Block Shield, Stigma, Decent Heals, Good Buffs, Debuff Resistance, a good prophecy, Recharges, etc.
I don't necessarily consider prophecy difference to be much of a factor. Most people will just use CoV or VoP and call it a day.
Most PvP these days happen during PvE, so if you die with an EE you'll probably be further back than if you had an SE. The SE will actually let you XP faster than an EE would, for obvious reasons. EEs are the gimp Elder. A high % Rez is not enough to make them viable (in comparison to SE).
Yes SE has good buffs, when she "borrows" them from EE :) The only real advantage SE has in buffs is holy and wind resist.
Stigma is taken by cardi (this way you also use less MP during pve), and cardi has shield block too. AS for prophecy, fighters will use COV anyway, and for cardi and recharger you want POWater, because it is better.
The only thing SE has to increase pve killing speed is stigma, but cardi with stigma>se with stigma due to mp consumption.
Add to this rather crappy 83 lvl skill (compared to EE one) and you have full picture.
Take purify on EE, stigma on cardi and you got all you need.
nothing wrong with EE's imho, they do what they must do.
+1 with nuku
just depend on ur party setup
my party is closed range melee so i have SE for powind stigma
if i will be in nucker/archer party i will probably replace SE with EE for powind and his mp regen(most of nucker party's have them both if they don't have ol)
Yes SE has good buffs, when she "borrows" them from EE :) The only real advantage SE has in buffs is holy and wind resist.
Stigma is taken by cardi (this way you also use less MP during pve), and cardi has shield block too. AS for prophecy, fighters will use COV anyway, and for cardi and recharger you want POWater, because it is better.
The only thing SE has to increase pve killing speed is stigma, but cardi with stigma>se with stigma due to mp consumption.
Add to this rather crappy 83 lvl skill (compared to EE one) and you have full picture.
Take purify on EE, stigma on cardi and you got all you need.
1. SEs get 4 skills at 76. It doesn't matter where they got them from, what matters is that they get them. They are good buffers, decent healers, and have great utility. Utility, Buffs, Debuffs of SE > that of EEs. It's pretty simple. EEs have literally no mentionable offensive buffs, and since someone was talking about PvP, having to rebuff after people are canceled is not necessarily a rare circumstance.
2. Mass Block Shield has a lower range than Block Shield, Cardinals have less M.Atk than SEs, and it has almost twice the MP cost of Block Shield. EEs can take Stigma as well, so that doesn't matter.
3. Parties that XP in places where Stigma is most effective will want an SE instead of an EE, anyways. Cardinals save MP how? SEs can bring Clarity and Stigma on top of other things they previously didn't have (4 Skill Links vs. 1). Stacking more VR saves MP as well.
If your Buffer is a Prophet, SE is the only choice for Elder, as well. No EE is going to take VR as their skill Link, and Cardinals are apparently taking Stigma (going by your words).
4. People don't need Prophecy of Water. They just need to learn how to Recharge with Arcane Wisdom Toggled on (and stacked with Clarity and the 5% Clarity Passive for level 78+ Elders). If the rechargers know how to play, there should be no MP issues in the absence of an EE considering Recharge is usually Enchanted for Cost and they can stack Clarity effects (Passive, Buff, Toggle).
5. Yes, Blessing of Eva is cool. What if you don't have any 83 Eva's Saints in Clan? Leave a better class out of party so you can PL them to a buff? Sounds like the excuse people have been making to justify Prophet's sucking... Just level to 83. Counter Critical FTW!!!?
I'm astonished at how far people will go to make obvious class imbalances seem fine. No wonder nothing gets changed in this game for the better... This is basically where SE's were in relation to EEs two years ago. The tides have turned, and some people feel the need to make it look like it's just fine. If SE's were in this position, I'm pretty sure a few of the known SE main posters here would be up in arms.
just depend on ur party setup
my party is closed range melee so i have SE for powind stigma
if i will be in nucker/archer party i will probably replace SE with EE for powind and his mp regen(most of nucker party's have them both if they don't have ol)
Most nuker parties will have two rechargers, anyways - SE and EE, for obvious reasons.
And the MP Regen/Clarity from PoWater matters more because those groups are more MP dependent than DD parties. That's why nuker parties are basically non-existent until high levels. There aren't even that many in FoG...
A DD Party in places like HB shouldn't have any issues with Cardinal + SE, unless the support players are terrible and spam Greater Battle Heal on anyone that takes a hit.
Most nuker parties will have two rechargers, anyways - SE and EE, for obvious reasons.
And the MP Regen/Clarity from PoWater matters more because those groups are more MP dependent than DD parties. That's why nuker parties are basically non-existent until high levels. There aren't even that many in FoG...
A DD Party in places like HB shouldn't have any issues with Cardinal + SE, unless the support players are terrible and spam Greater Battle Heal on anyone that takes a hit.
the point of my post was that both of this classes are good,
just in different party setup some of this elders are better/need-it then other
Comparisons between classes has been done to death.
If a class (SE) gets more suitable things for certain party setups, does not automatically mean that an other class (EE) is suddenly worthless, they just keep doing what they've been doing.
Each class has their own thing. for example don't compare a necro with a nuker or a summoner, it's a unique hybrid class on it's own.
Ppl ask "which tank/dagger/healer/nuker/archer is the best?" etc way too much, the point is that there is no best class, they all have their own function in the game.
having to rebuff after people are canceled is not necessarily a rare circumstance.
WC can do this as well, also you can use potions
2. Mass Block Shield has a lower range than Block Shield, Cardinals have less M.Atk than SEs, and it has almost twice the MP cost of Block Shield. EEs can take Stigma as well, so that doesn't matter.
I stand corrected on Block shield, that's indeed + for SE, but any EE that takes stigma with pvp in mind, should reroll.
3. Parties that XP in places where Stigma is most effective will want an SE instead of an EE, anyways. Cardinals save MP how? SEs can bring Clarity and Stigma on top of other things they previously didn't have (4 Skill Links vs. 1). Stacking more VR saves MP as well.
If you can restore more mp, than cost of recharge skill, then for optimal effect the recharger should spend as much MP as possible on recharging, not on anything else :)
POWind has additional VR effect, but you will not use it, cause you have COV :S On the other hand, POWater further reduce cost of stigma.
If your Buffer is a Prophet, SE is the only choice for Elder, as well. No EE is going to take VR as their skill Link, and Cardinals are apparently taking Stigma (going by your words).
I agree, but if I could choose, I wouldn't pick a prophet... that's why there are so many pp's nowadays. I've heard people trying with 2 buffers (second beeing PP), and only 3 dd's but I don't know if it's any good.
4. People don't need Prophecy of Water. They just need to learn how to Recharge with Arcane Wisdom Toggled on (and stacked with Clarity and the 5% Clarity Passive for level 78+ Elders). If the rechargers know how to play, there should be no MP issues in the absence of an EE considering Recharge is usually Enchanted for Cost and they can stack Clarity effects (Passive, Buff, Toggle).
For XP yes. But cardi needs to OE heals for mp consumption not without a reason. And this Powater 5% mp usage decrease is usefull too - little things add together.
5. Yes, Blessing of Eva is cool. What if you don't have any 83 Eva's Saints in Clan? Leave a better class out of party so you can PL them to a buff? Sounds like the excuse people have been making to justify Prophet's sucking... Just level to 83. Counter Critical FTW!!!?
The thing is, EE's dont suck, stil are much more ees than ses. And many 83+ ones. I think, that, if optimal pvp setup would include SE, every top pvp party on Teon would have one :)
I'm astonished at how far people will go to make obvious class imbalances seem fine. No wonder nothing gets changed in this game for the better... This is basically where SE's were in relation to EEs two years ago. The tides have turned, and some people feel the need to make it look like it's just fine. If SE's were in this position, I'm pretty sure a few of the known SE main posters here would be up in arms.
Maybe, EEs have no reason to cry. There are plenty of EEs, so if it was that bad, you would see them crying on boards. But you don't.
I don't say that SEs are bad. Personally I play with SE and I very much enjoy that I don't have to cast stigma on every mob. Also the fact, that I could take PR, and we have double :) But still reality is, that most parties choose EE.
Stigma is a 33 MP Skill (30 MP with +0 Clarity). Prophecy of Water lowers the MP cost by like 1 MP.
I'm tired arguing with you about rediculous ****. SE > EE. They aren't complaining becaue they probably think getting to 83 will make up for it (like you). Maybe they're satisfied. Maybe they quit reading the forums? There have never been a large number of EEs or SEs that posted here (who play it as their main, that is), anyways.
Most players don't care about class balance until they get one shot by someone.
Comparisons between classes has been done to death.
If a class (SE) gets more suitable things for certain party setups, does not automatically mean that an other class (EE) is suddenly worthless, they just keep doing what they've been doing.
Each class has their own thing. for example don't compare a necro with a nuker or a summoner, it's a unique hybrid class on it's own.
Ppl ask "which tank/dagger/healer/nuker/archer is the best?" etc way too much, the point is that there is no best class, they all have their own function in the game.
Necro and Nuker is a bad comparison.
EE and SE (two elders, and two classes from the same archetype) is a valid comparison.
When two classes are of the same archetype, and the viability of one is much higher than the other, something is wrong with the class balance.
Remember SEs before they got Stigma, Bless the Blood, and the Prophecy revamps? PS before Death Spike and the Nightshade changes? Sorcs before 79+ skills? Overlords before Combo Buffs and the ability to buff non-clan members?
Class comparisons have been done to death because of the subclass system in Lineage II. Lots of people are always creating new subs, so they always want to know what is the best tank/dagger/archer/nuker/summoner/whatever.
1. SEs get 4 skills at 76. It doesn't matter where they got them from, what matters is that they get them.
Not completely true. There is one benefitting aspect of the skill link choice for an EE: you don't need to enchant the skills you get from skill link to be effective. If you need to replace a skill, you lose 10 mil, but not your SP.
Do you know a SE with +16 Trance at 81? It is nothing extraordinary for an EE, and it routinely lands in the places where the unenchanted one doesn't.
(the debuff chance on mob is still based on the level of the skill... I wish I could land more than every 3rd Root on light blue mobs... nah I don't; that's the singers' job)
Yep, EEs have less skill link slots. But when they find their skillset lacking (due to a change in their PvE setup, for example) and are going to get a more useful skill, they don't need to worry that they lose their +18 Clarity.
They are good buffers, decent healers, and have great utility. Utility, Buffs, Debuffs of SE > that of EEs. It's pretty simple. EEs have literally no mentionable offensive buffs, and since someone was talking about PvP, having to rebuff after people are canceled is not necessarily a rare circumstance.
Well, if you (a debuffer/secondary healer/rezzer) have nothing better to do in that time... but usually there is a Warcryer to restore these buffs, without even switching their target.
3. Parties that XP in places where Stigma is most effective will want an SE instead of an EE, anyways. Cardinals save MP how? SEs can bring Clarity and Stigma on top of other things they previously didn't have (4 Skill Links vs. 1). Stacking more VR saves MP as well.
Dunno about your experience, but in most my VR parties a Cardi (if present) serves only as a backup/emergency healer and a BoA/Zerk buffer. EE with Stigma is enough for the rest of the job, in both single-target and AoE (I don't AoE Tully's yet, though).
However, if MP becomes an issue, EE usually comes with +12 or higher magic Clarity, can throw PoWa for extra Clarity/MP regen, and has good castspeed even with Arcane Wisdom on.
If your Buffer is a Prophet, SE is the only choice for Elder, as well. No EE is going to take VR as their skill Link, and Cardinals are apparently taking Stigma (going by your words).
Even then, sometimes VR dance is enough, But a PP as the main buffer is gimp anyway.
4. People don't need Prophecy of Water. They just need to learn how to Recharge with Arcane Wisdom Toggled on (and stacked with Clarity and the 5% Clarity Passive for level 78+ Elders). If the rechargers know how to play, there should be no MP issues in the absence of an EE considering Recharge is usually Enchanted for Cost and they can stack Clarity effects (Passive, Buff, Toggle).
Actually, I really like the +20% MP regen part of the PoWa. Lets me keep the party going when that Cardi happens to think that someone needs their GBH.
5. Yes, Blessing of Eva is cool. What if you don't have any 83 Eva's Saints in Clan?
That must be Nova then. They are currently trying to recruit lvl 81+ EEs, obviously their clan lack them :rolleyes:
I'm astonished at how far people will go to make obvious class imbalances seem fine. No wonder nothing gets changed in this game for the better... This is basically where SE's were in relation to EEs two years ago.
EEs had their reasons to cry in C2-C4. SEs had their reasons to cry in C5+. Currently both classes are relatively fine if played live. However, if my class gets a boost, I won't be against it... as long as it is a boost for live players, not boxes.
Stigma is a 33 MP Skill (30 MP with +0 Clarity). Prophecy of Water lowers the MP cost by like 1 MP.
I'm tired arguing with you about rediculous ****. SE > EE. They aren't complaining becaue they probably think getting to 83 will make up for it (like you). Maybe they're satisfied. Maybe they quit reading the forums? There have never been a large number of EEs or SEs that posted here (who play it as their main, that is), anyways.
Most players don't care about class balance until they get one shot by someone.
Yes, getting to 83 totally makes it for them, especially since plenty of them alredy is 83. And they don't have problems with party, so they will make it np :)
Not completely true. There is one benefitting aspect of the skill link choice for an EE: you don't need to enchant the skills you get from skill link to be effective. If you need to replace a skill, you lose 10 mil, but not your SP.
Lemons ~> Lemonade
I know my Cardinal would be thrilled to have the problem of multiple linked skills. Of course YMMV...
It's not "the problem of multiple linked skills". It's the problem of "need to enchant linked skills". And Cardinal has it (up to some level) too. EE usually doesn't.
You don't need to enchant Purify, Stigma, BoA, SE buffs other than resist holy. You don't really need to enchant GBH. But you would like to enchant Major Heal, Clarity, Resist Shock, and you will definitely want to enchant Trance and Unholy Resist.
Lots of people are always creating new subs, so they always want to know what is the best tank/dagger/archer/nuker/summoner/whatever.Best in what Tren?
Each class has their own thing and they will keep doing that, no matter if another class gets updates and an other stays the same, it won't make classes useless, except if something gets nerfed, get the point now?
Best in what Tren?
Each class has their own thing and they will keep doing that, no matter if another class gets updates and an other stays the same, it won't make classes useless, except if something gets nerfed, get the point now?
Daggers are Daggers, Archers are Archers. They're the same type of class, with most of the differences being minor prior to S Grade as far as skills go, and many of them being pure mechanical differences (racial/stat differences).
Each Archetype has their own thing. Classes within an archetype have a specific flavor, but that flavor is minor in the grand scheme of things, except for some out of the ordinary cases (like Storm Screamers with Emp Echo, THs with Mirage, and Hawkeyes with their rediculous weight capacity compared to other Archers).
If a game has an archetype system, they must make sure all classes within the archetype are as balanced vs each other as the archetype itself is balanced against other archetypes.
This has to be done to avoid the imba situations that L2 has right now.
Want a Nuker: go StS
Want an Archer: go HE
Want a Dagger: Go TH
Want a Buffer: Go WC
Want an Elder: Go SE
Want a Healer: Go BP
Want a Tank: Go DA
It also has to be done to avoid rock-paper-sissors PvP balance, which is not a good system at all and does nothing but frustrate players and drive them away (and "kills certain classes/archetypes"). The Archetype that seems most balanced (more than the others) is Warriors and Bards. The rest, not so much. Bard classes (BD and SWS) aren't necessarily well balanced against other archetypes, though, just within the archetype.
People will always play what they think suits them best, but it sure does hurt (or is frustrating) for your class to be marginalized and basically forgotten in the balance spectrum - many Prophet mains will attest to that, and SEs were quite vocal on this forum until they got their NCSoft bail-out... Now you can hardly hear a peep from them (Overlords as well).
I know this sounds foreign to you, but it's what must be done to maintain class balance. You can't look at each class or archetype in a vacuum, and "x has it's flavor" is not a justification for blatant imbalance.
No class is ever useless, because regardless of how useless a class may seem to be, anyone can always come up with a situation where that class will be of use (or tell you to level to 83 to get groups, etc.). I'm not talking about them being useless -generally- I'm talking about them being useless with the existence of much better alternatives. The way prophets are basically useless with the existence of War Cryers, and the way SEs were basically useless with the existence of EEs prior to the Prophecy changes and new skills/Skill Links given to them. Given a choice, people will always take what is best, because the classes in this game are balanced in a way that one is clearly and so wildly superior to the other that there really isn't a choice, unless you only have access to one of them.
Just because people are willing to play a gimp class (like a BH or WS or PP etc. etc.) doesn't mean the class has a flavor, so it is balanced/okay. The key to introducing and retaining balance is to see when the situation is popping up and attacking it before it gets to a rediculous level, something NCSoft has always been terrible at doing, and something the L2 community is incapable of doing - obviously.
PvP games are notorious for having terrible communities who are only concerned with what affects them (or rather, the class[es] they play), whilst being totally out of tune with how the things they want/expect affect the game as a whole. The release of Age of Conan and the amount of nerfs that were introduced shortly after its release (before it basically died) speak volumes about the types of players these games attract, and their personas (in general). This also happened in Warhammer, and if you read other game forums (which has a significant amount of PvP in them), it's the same.
The fact that Koreans are so into PvE doesn't really help, either, coupled with the fact that we get absolutely 0 access to the development team.
Thx Tren, that's basically what i meant. :)
The game as how the NCKR have meant it to be, is ok.
Just the western community is more into conflict and seems never satisfied :P
I know what the KOR players want. I'm saying they need to take their heads out of their posteriors and realize that it isn't necessarily good for the game as a whole.
Players should never be satisfied, until a concerted effort is being exerted to introduce balance to the game. PvE ******* Koreans have a different perspective, because everything seems balanced when you're more into killing MOBs. As long as the raid boss died, all is well... Right?
I just started playing 9 days ago. All this talk about EEs being gimp is worrisome. Just started my 2nd class transfer to EE. It has been fun so far, have gotten a lot of help from the clan I got into, but now I am wondering if I made a big mistake.
From a PvE perspective, is EE worth the trouble? Should I just stick with it on the assumption that NCSoft will eventually fix EEs as well? I don't want to simply switch to the flavor of the month but I also don't want to get to S grade and find myself worthless. I really enjoy the fast heals but is that enough?
I just started playing 9 days ago. All this talk about EEs being gimp is worrisome. Just started my 2nd class transfer to EE. It has been fun so far, have gotten a lot of help from the clan I got into, but now I am wondering if I made a big mistake.
From a PvE perspective, is EE worth the trouble? Should I just stick with it on the assumption that NCSoft will eventually fix EEs as well? I don't want to simply switch to the flavor of the month but I also don't want to get to S grade and find myself worthless. I really enjoy the fast heals but is that enough?
Never plan for what NCSoft may do. As long as you enjoy the idea of healing and recharging, theres nothing at all wrong with EE. Cardinals of course have Balance Life, but they can't recharge. SE's have an advantage with the 4 Skills you can pick from all classes, but ofc there are still differences that can justify being an EE.
Never plan for what NCSoft may do. As long as you enjoy the idea of healing and recharging, theres nothing at all wrong with EE. Cardinals of course have Balance Life, but they can't recharge. SE's have an advantage with the 4 Skills you can pick from all classes, but ofc there are still differences that can justify being an EE.
Yeah, I was thinking, since it takes so long to level in this game it would be senseless to base your pick off of what is currently a good class. But the 4 skill picks vs. 1 simply reeks of gross imbalance from the perspective of a new player who hasn't played any class to that level. I hope there are other factors that offset it and help to justify the difference but something like that just doesn't look right to an outsider. It seems like the SE would be able to pick up anything that they lacked and wanted from the EE but the same cant be done in reverse. Again, I am sure my understanding is flawed on how this all works but it is simply hard to imagine how these two classes could be even close to balanced.
We're speaking about EEs comparatively. We never said the class sucked, we only spoke about how it was balanced to other similar classes. Shouldn't be necessarily worrisome, and since NCSoft loves non-PP support classes you should except at least a minor boost in the not so-so distant future.
Yeah, I was thinking, since it takes so long to level in this game it would be senseless to base your pick off of what is currently a good class. But the 4 skill picks vs. 1 simply reeks of gross imbalance from the perspective of a new player who hasn't played any class to that level. I hope there are other factors that offset it and help to justify the difference but something like that just doesn't look right to an outsider. It seems like the SE would be able to pick up anything that they lacked and wanted from the EE but the same cant be done in reverse. Again, I am sure my understanding is flawed on how this all works but it is simply hard to imagine how these two classes could be even close to balanced.
SE's can't pick really cool skills like Balance life from the Cardinals, or the ES's 76+ skills either as far as I understand. I know it seems whacked out, but SE's were previously left out in the cold by WC's (VR) and EE's (PR) and Cardinals (Heals). They had nothing to offer to a group; though I must admit 4 seems excessive when the others can only have 1 more.
As SE i have to add, that our normal heals are so bad, they arent even enchantable.
That makes 2 Picks, the Major Heals, from the skillist mandatory.
That 2 Heals give us a position as Healer in a group which wasnt there before. ( below 76 )
In the buff department both elders are declassified by Orcs, who just do it faster and more complete. We add our special buffs on top, thats it.
But that means, we could use our mana active, to add to killspeed, give recharges, heals, and debuff.
For me my SE became intresting, and im sure most EEs think good about their class too.
I just started playing 9 days ago. All this talk about EEs being gimp is worrisome. Just started my 2nd class transfer to EE. It has been fun so far, have gotten a lot of help from the clan I got into, but now I am wondering if I made a big mistake.
From a PvE perspective, is EE worth the trouble? Should I just stick with it on the assumption that NCSoft will eventually fix EEs as well? I don't want to simply switch to the flavor of the month but I also don't want to get to S grade and find myself worthless. I really enjoy the fast heals but is that enough?
SEs may be in more demand around PvE, but an SE cannot really replace an EE in both PVP and Oly. Hands down a high level EE with nuke augs is the best open Oly enforcers. SEs can farm open, but they lower casting speed can't always keep up, and then the lack of BOE doesn't give the survivability an EE has to out last in a match.
The EE in pvp have a better cast speed for secondary heals and recharges and quicker (and better) rezes for the bishop. Then you have BOE, and with the skill linking them taking Purify, they can help remove debuffs from the bishop and party members.
Want a Nuker: go StS
Want an Archer: go HE
Want a Dagger: Go TH
Want a Buffer: Go WC
Want an Elder: Go SE
Want a Healer: Go BP
Want a Tank: Go DA
I'd have to agree slightly.. depending on the situation. I would much rather take a PK or SK over a DA for pve. Not to mention, daggers are highly debatable. Yea, Mirage is okay but can be easily defeated with macros or quick retargeting and being smart enough to remove anything with reflect dmg (frint). The GH hits harder than TH & WR, and the WR lands more stabs than both. If I am remembering correctly, both Ghost Walking and Wind Riding are better than Exciting Adventure. Same can be said with EE or SE, both have their places. However, I'd much rather have an EE in pvp than an SE.
The warrior classes are the more balanced archetype, outside of Warlords sucking... but not too too much from what I've seen.
The Archetype that seems most balanced (more than the others) is Warriors and Bards. The rest, not so much. Bard classes (BD and SWS) aren't necessarily well balanced against other archetypes, though, just within the archetype.
:P
I'm not necessarily counting Dwarves as warriors, and they don't matter because few sane players would roll one anyways...
The warrior classes are the more balanced archetype, outside of Warlords sucking... but not too too much from what I've seen.
:P
I'm not necessarily counting Dwarves as warriors, and they don't matter because few sane players would roll one anyways...
I definitely think WL have their place, definitely high level warlords with good OEs. For a short time we had a WL party, and it definitely slowed down the rushing zerg through choke points allowing nuker bubbles, glad/tyrant AOEs to do their thing.
Want a Nuker: go StS
Want an Archer: go HE
Want a Dagger: Go TH
Want a Buffer: Go WC
Want an Elder: Go SE
Want a Healer: Go BP
Want a Tank: Go DA
nuker maybe
archer lol HE? tricksters are way better
dagger maybe th AW bit harder for 1 hit ko's
buffer prophet > wc @ 83
elder? se? really? ee are way better due to boe
of course bishop is the ONLY healer class
tank DA is like whatever SK or pally are better with buff
warlord can destroy classes without RS just slow at doing so
kamel classes kill people also
gl with your SE and bp and no sws and bd lamer.
Cardinals of course have Balance Life, but they can't recharge.
Not true
Cardinal can take recharge skill,oe it and when he hits 83lvl also use sublime to fully restore everyones mp!
Rosalina if you just started playing,dont pay any attention of what old players say, pre-80 toons have nothing to do with 83+ toons,by the time you will hit 83,more updates will take place and noone knows how classes will look then.For your info,ee started as a complenlty useless buffer,went into top recharger for 2 years,now its se raising time,if any active se is left on game.Active rechargers will always find a place in a good clan since game is adding party activitys.
EE is the second rezer in a pvp/raid group,able to make heals with her top cast.speed if cardinal is stunned and pr party,those skills cant all be added to a se,so yes,everyone prefers an ee to pvp group since empower was added to dominators too, unless they can invite them both to have active stigma.
Nscoft is supposed to raise se but forgot the main skill for groups is a 80% +rez.
nuker maybe
archer lol HE? tricksters are way better
dagger maybe th AW bit harder for 1 hit ko's
buffer prophet > wc @ 83
elder? se? really? ee are way better due to boe
of course bishop is the ONLY healer class
tank DA is like whatever SK or pally are better with buff
warlord can destroy classes without RS just slow at doing so
kamel classes kill people also
gl with your SE and bp and no sws and bd lamer.
Please type in English.
And please tell me where I insinuated that players should form their parties based on what I wrote?
I'm pretty sure we know that Cardi+Recharger+BD+SWS is basically the backbone of any stacked party setup.
Which ones you take depend on the situation, and getting 1 hit KOS on a Dagger depends entirely on you either attacking a Low HP class or that person not having a factorable level of Attribute Resist for the element on your dagger/skill Enchant.
Cardinal can take recharge skill,oe it and when he hits 83lvl also use sublime to fully restore everyones mp!
Rosalina if you just started playing,dont pay any attention of what old players say, pre-80 toons have nothing to do with 83+ toons,by the time you will hit 83,more updates will take place and noone knows how classes will look then.For your info,ee started as a complenlty useless buffer,went into top recharger for 2 years,now its se raising time,if any active se is left on game.Active rechargers will always find a place in a good clan since game is adding party activitys.
Any cardinal who takes recharge should deactivate their account and walk away.
And please tell me where I insinuated that players should form their parties based on what I wrote?
I'm pretty sure we know that Cardi+Recharger+BD+SWS is basically the backbone of any stacked party setup.
Which ones you take depend on the situation, and getting 1 hit KOS on a Dagger depends entirely on you either attacking a Low HP class or that person not having a factorable level of Attribute Resist for the element on your dagger/skill Enchant.
I just started playing 9 days ago. All this talk about EEs being gimp is worrisome. Just started my 2nd class transfer to EE. It has been fun so far, have gotten a lot of help from the clan I got into, but now I am wondering if I made a big mistake.
Don't worry, EEs are fine.
There is a plenty of EEs both ingame and on the forums. Have you seen any of them complaining?
Thanks for all the responses. It is good to know that EEs are fine. I do like how this game encourages grouping and how everybody seems to bring something unique.
Looks like ppl differ in opinions what class is better afterall huh :D
1vs1? :D
Sure Nuku, I will 1 vs 1 you. Let's see how it goes. Warlord vs. Glad. It will be fun to see. Got to use up my vitality buff on sub first though as I am not going to waste that, but send me an in game mail and we will set it up.
Sure Nuku, I will 1 vs 1 you. Let's see how it goes. Warlord vs. Glad. It will be fun to see. Got to use up my vitality buff on sub first though as I am not going to waste that, but send me an in game mail and we will set it up.hah, ok will do, don't be surprised with the outcome tho ;)
lf 1 vs 1suhm.., only if you're lagging badly or are afk :D <3
due to a series of unforeseeable events, Freya update has been canceled for NCSoft NA clients.
the eastern markets are in the middle of roll backs to pre Freya character information, it's a pretty nasty Ordeal.
read all the facts http://www.lineage2.com/archive/2010/02/the_freya_updat.html http://lineage2.plaync.co.kr/
Wow! Im glad they didnt release when Aion came out. Its kinda like when Microsoft released Vista early to compete with Mac OS.. it SUCKED! I say take your time. Do what you need to to make the game the best it can be. Lets get it lively again..:o
I hope that Freya comes b4 Koreans launch Lineage 3
Also looking forward to L3.. I want to start new and when its active. I wasted TOO much time making alts and running around rather than leveling. The beauty of the game got me caught up. Now im fighting to catch up. I plan to stay with the crowd in L3:rolleyes:
There is no further news about Freya release date or Server Merges at this time. When we have information that is ready to be released to the public, we will post it.
Demands for answers from NCsoft are not permitted, however we may often address some questions and concerns with an official topic. In the event of legitimate emergencies, or other unprecedented scenarios, we will endeavor to provide comments, even if it is only to state that there is no officially available information. However, this may not always be possible.
we pay 15$ every month for this game so our questions are legitime, why the others get more than us and we pay same price than them, i can understand asia country get freya before us, but when russia get freya in same time than korea, we have a big problem in west countries
There is no further news about Freya release date or Server Merges at this time. When we have information that is ready to be released to the public, we will post it.
Demands for answers from NCsoft are not permitted, however we may often address some questions and concerns with an official topic. In the event of legitimate emergencies, or other unprecedented scenarios, we will endeavor to provide comments, even if it is only to state that there is no officially available information. However, this may not always be possible.
Ok... Sace/Overlord who told you to post this... here is the problem.
From a PR standpoint you are better off saying something along the lines of "Hey Guys/Girls, we know you are mad about being two updates behind, if I/we could tell you a time line I would but at this time we can not due to things our of our control - we hope to have more info to you in a week or so... we are not happy either being this far beind"
There is no further news about Freya release date or Server Merges at this time. When we have information that is ready to be released to the public, we will post it.
Demands for answers from NCsoft are not permitted, however we may often address some questions and concerns with an official topic. In the event of legitimate emergencies, or other unprecedented scenarios, we will endeavor to provide comments, even if it is only to state that there is no officially available information. However, this may not always be possible.
You guys should turn off the servers and just keep aion since its clear this company can't manage 2 games or don't want too.
you cant cancelled guild war because you dont pay every month to play it, when you get guild war account it is for life and wathever guild war is more arena net than ncsoft :)
you cant cancelled guild war because you dont pay every month to play it, when you get guild war account it is for life and wathever guild war is more arena net than ncsoft :)
Sace, I respect you and what you are doing. But you cant change anything and you forced to follow direction given from your boss. But ...
In general it looks like NCWest fully stop support Lineage2 project. We dont have any actions regarding many problems. It's not only Freya update. It's also l2.bin critical error fix. If NC can't do anything why they dont call players to help ? There are players smart enough to resolve all issues.
I also dont forget about bug allowing you to disconnect any player from server by critical error - just need to know his name. One way for this bug fixed but at least 2 more still exist and waiting for "bad" players to find them. Also I remember bug allowing to generate lags decreasing fps almost to 0. And this bug also working and for example was used against us last sieges. http://s51.radikal.ru/i134/1007/60/dbd0865c323d.jpg
Looks like lol-"wall" but players without 3d software have huge problems trying to pass this "wall" due to havy lags generated by this characters.
I think that you will delete this post, but I dont care about it. I will know that you read it and I will know that you understand that I'm right =)
This is from the perspective of someone brand new (two weeks) to the game and very much enjoying it. Given that there are only a few servers and that total peaktime population for all NA servers is about, what, < 10000? Given that we are now two patches behind. It looks like NCWest is shutting Lineage 2 down in North America.
I hope this is not the case. If it is not the case then NCWest needs to speak up and let us know what the plan is. As it stands, no news is bad news right now. Saying nothing while your actions imply the worst is not a good policy.
i read an article today WOW is requiring users to change their forum names to their real life names first and last. one thing i would like to thank ncsoft for is not doing that. such a breach of privacy.
i read an article today WOW is requiring users to change their forum names to their real life names first and last. one thing i would like to thank ncsoft for is not doing that. such a breach of privacy.
Today Blizzard backtracked & posted that they are Not going to require real names for the forums.
Today Blizzard backtracked & posted that they are Not going to require real names for the forums.
Was that after one of the WoW GM's posted their real name and within mins, there was posts about his address, pics of his house (Mom's house, he in fact did live in his Mom's basement), what b-day parties he was attending, names of former girlfiends...
THE CEO RESPONDED. Sadly, L2 would never see that type of response.
In closing, I want to point out that our connection with our community has always been and will always be extremely important to us. We strongly believe that Every Voice Matters, ( http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/mission.html ) and we feel fortunate to have a community that cares so passionately about our games. We will always appreciate the feedback and support of our players, which has been a key to Blizzard's success from the beginning.
Mike Morhaime
CEO & Cofounder
Blizzard Entertainment
In closing, I want to point out that our connection with our community has always been and will always be extremely important to us. We strongly believe that Every Voice Matters, ( http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/mission.html ) and we feel fortunate to have a community that cares so passionately about our games. We will always appreciate the feedback and support of our players, which has been a key to Blizzard's success from the beginning.
Mike Morhaime
CEO & Cofounder
Blizzard Entertainment
LoL NCSOFT... Read and learn...
yea... this would a good thing to see from the new Producer at NCNA...
The WoW GM didn't live in his mother's basement. That does sound a bit cute and chik, though...
And the L2 community would never even be able to do anything like that, because internally the players cannot even come to agreement on even the most trivial things.
In any case, the NCNA management really cannot comment on any of the issues we have, because they don't control the game. All they can do is say "we'll forward this request to korea," where the fax is quickly put through the shredder.
Easy to translate text of interface, harder with all skills :P
And koreans pictograms are beautiful Oo
I dont agree with you. Some people at goha.ru forum translate all patch notes from new korean updates in 1 day. Also they take full info from pts clients about new skills, OE routes, changes in skills (like Frenzy changes in HF update), icons for skills and other stuff. For sure they dont need to translate NPC dialoges but does it takes so much time ?
RU servers receive new update (not translated) not just after release at Korea servers but with big delay. And only one reason for it - NC want to show all that Korea servers is vip servers and rest are ****. But now looks like even comparing NA/EU and RU we see that our servers really mean nothing.
But in general difference between RU and EU/NA is visible. RU brings much more money to company (not sure how NC and Innova share gains from L2 project). All plays PA(premium account) for 10$ per month, so it's already not f2p in general and also ppl buy a lot of stuff from Item Mole. And amount of players ... 12 servers with 3-4k players ... cant be compared with our NA/EU servers.
You think f2p servers at NA/EU will fix this ? Maybe if it will be new server. At current servers not a lot of players will pay money for PA (x2 rates for exp/adena/sp/drop/etc...) becuase they come close to maximum. And from l2.ru (and also Franz/Luna) expiriens I see that new players dont like to come old server where players reach maximum on theys characters they prefer to start at younges servers or even wait untill new server will be opened.
Translating quest text is not hard. It's the game files that need to be translated as well. All the code that probably has Korean stuff in it, which will not run correctly on computers with English localizations, etc. for various reasons.
Translating the text is not hard, but there is much more to translate than just some strings in a resource file, or whatever.
That's why most large applications push out localizations in waves (i.e. English version this month, Greek version in the works, etc.).