All failed. And you expect people to play this game legit with the amount of money that costs? Absolutely ridiculous. NCSoft you must have a very sick sense of humor.
All failed. And you expect people to play this game legit with the amount of money that costs? Absolutely ridiculous. NCSoft you must have a very sick sense of humor.
Just felt like expressing my opinion.
Well just expressing my opinion here but if you wanted a WOW like game maybe you should go play it?
QQ'ing about failed crafts has been going on in this game since the beginning. If you want an easy game where you get everything for nothing. Yeah...thats WOW...
All failed. And you expect people to play this game legit with the amount of money that costs? Absolutely ridiculous. NCSoft you must have a very sick sense of humor.
Just felt like expressing my opinion.
this is about as sad as the other thread on here with someone complaining about using 250 life stones and not getting an active nuke.
failed more then that, and didn't had to make an official or private forum thread... especially dyna leggins and dyna helms, and im preatty sure ill fail even more :p
well try to craft with your clan it is big help, if you solo craft it could be very hard, your clan can help you with mat, rec and key mat, so speak with your clan to share the responbalities about the craft :)
If we've having a QQ thread, I would just it like to officially be known that I am still bitter about the random guy back in C2 who took the soul shots that dropped when I died. Oh, I think you know who you are.
Short Question if 2 of your crafts ended in two rare items would you post about that too?
I lost the count to the crafts I failed, also have no idea how many were successful and even cant remember how many were rare parts I got, weapons I know was only two, but set parts got a lot of them, its part of the game to be hard to get some items, deal with that!
I was camping outside dion with level 1 dwarf (there was the time when top bots were getting bored so they pked newbies at dion gates) to pick up drops from bots. They were dieing, dunno why, tons of bringandine spoilers dropping mats and even armor. There was time, the bot was coming back but didnt pick its drop, so i was working and dropping an eye from time to time to see what lies around :P
Regarding crafting, yeah, buy is cheaper than crafting because those are byproducts of some ppl aiming for rare. I am happy with that, I can afford many things because of that.
M
Ok I understand your concern but...
I lost an olympiad match!!! Q.Q
:(:(:(
Opponent must have haxored!
Bishop is one of the top enforcers on Phoenix, should be same on most servers!
Ofc the one on Phx is hero and has alot of VERY overenchanted skills.
But u cant be that far behind right?
If it makes you feel any better, I lost 9/9 on 12 nobles last month on Phoenix. (Mostly coz I dont really wanna waste time trying to win on any of my toons, 108 matches sigh)
The craft 'fail' system in L2 is rediculous concidering how it can take a player well over a month to collect enough materials for a single breastplate craft (Even if using manor for materials, the AA/S-crys/Sgems will take even longer to save up).
It makes no sence to "lose" everything from a craft anyway. Even if what you tried making was a mess of metal a small part of it would be useable as raw material again; so it makes no sence why you don't get a small proportion of some materials back (some iron/steel, for example, might make most sence for hvy armors or weapons).
It makes no sence to "lose" everything from a craft anyway. Even if what you tried making was a mess of metal a small part of it would be useable as raw material again; so it makes no sence why you don't get a small proportion of some materials back (some iron/steel, for example, might make most sence for hvy armors or weapons).
If you want to talk about making sense, why would you pay the dwarf after the craft failed?
You wouldn't pay a plumber if he tried to fix your sink but ended up destroying your whole house.
If we've having a QQ thread, I would just it like to officially be known that I am still bitter about the random guy back in C2 who took the soul shots that dropped when I died. Oh, I think you know who you are.
... :rolleyes:
</hijack>
So you are saying that I should not have done that... my bad..
I play a Maestro, and for about 3 months on my server was the only dwarf with s80 recipes. I kept a tally of fails vs successes, there was no pattern, no trick, and there were 67% success vs 33% fail.
The only thing that would make more sense is if you got some crystals from a failed craft.
If you want to talk about making sense, why would you pay the dwarf after the craft failed?
You wouldn't pay a plumber if he tried to fix your sink but ended up destroying your whole house.
But it is not the dwarves fault if the recipe fails, it is not as if we sit there actually doing something ot make it.
As a gesture of goodwill I always return half the craft money if I am at my PC - but the service that I provide is a 60% chance at the craft, not a guarantee it will suceed.
To craft you must either:
1. Make this for a living - which means you must make at least 100+ crafts at 60% before jumping to conclusions.
2. Have absolutely no other choice - so it is success or nothing - which means if there is a fail you are still on "nothing". Looking at this way you can only profit from the craft.
What i mean - when i hit B grade coupls of years ago i have absolutely no way to buy a BW helmet or to buy BW helmet 100% recipe. I could afford only 60% recipe. So if I didn't craft I would have no BW set; if i did craft and failed then i would have no BW set either. So in such situations you can only win and can't lose.
The people who complain are usualy those who can afford to buy the item but decide to craft hoping for a success and almost 2 times cheaper item. But the truth is IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE SAME PRICE as if you bought it. Why this? Simple. Coz even if you succeeded at the 1st craft you can simply sell the crafted item at the market price. So actually the cost of this item is cost of the craft and the cost of the "lost" income.
To craft you must either:
1. Make this for a living - which means you must make at least 100+ crafts at 60% before jumping to conclusions.
2. Have absolutely no other choice - so it is success or nothing - which means if there is a fail you are still on "nothing". Looking at this way you can only profit from the craft.
What i mean - when i hit B grade coupls of years ago i have absolutely no way to buy a BW helmet or to buy BW helmet 100% recipe. I could afford only 60% recipe. So if I didn't craft I would have no BW set; if i did craft and failed then i would have no BW set either. So in such situations you can only win and can't lose.
The people who complain are usualy those who can afford to buy the item but decide to craft hoping for a success and almost 2 times cheaper item. But the truth is IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE SAME PRICE as if you bought it. Why this? Simple. Coz even if you succeeded at the 1st craft you can simply sell the crafted item at the market price. So actually the cost of this item is cost of the craft and the cost of the "lost" income.
Erm, nope :p
Personally I have to craft; never really have enough to buy an item outright; buying mats and S gems from giran. It takes me months to get enough adena together from events or TW to afford 1 craft of a breastplate for example. So, I think I have the right to complain a bit when I lose everything :p
I had once 9 successes in a row (but only once); and never had more then 5 fails in a row.
1-2 years ago I was crafting mine Tatoesian.
After endless run in HS, I had 4 ring rec, 2 earring, 2 necklace....
Craft was ALMOST successfully - I manage to get in total 1 earring :)
I was laughing myself that is most expensive earning at Teon :)
Later on after 14 crafts (or 13 I lost count) I manage to get full set :)
After that excessive I don't craft what I want.
I do craft only for sell or for friend or for fun ;)
All failed. And you expect people to play this game legit with the amount of money that costs? Absolutely ridiculous. NCSoft you must have a very sick sense of humor.
Just felt like expressing my opinion.
You do understand that on most servers, Just about everything you listed is actually cheaper and or the same price to simply buy the completed item, instead of trying to craft it.
craft fails on a legit character sucks!those fails were one more reason people botted,to have endless supplys of mats and adena so not to get inflicted by fails.
there are people who quit the game after going broke on never-stop-failing crafts , Nscoft should really see how to fix the whatever random generator or put a new system who gives back halph of the mats if fail.Maybe this has to do with our servers are so low on people and so few do craft,i dont know,whatever the reason it should be fixed.
But,hey,we are talking about the company who sells agathion on luxury shop asking to bring some very expensive items as exchange for the agathion and suddenly npc gives you a horn circlet!After 3 times loosing my precious adena,i went sick on the idea of agathions and decided never to use a npc or shop again if not emergency!
The problem is not only the lost adena / mats but also the problematic (for some servers) market and low population.
I takes me about a week of constant shout / buy shop to gather again the needed 18 shoes pieces. After a full month of gathering mats / pieces, ~150m adena evaporated (not counting mats from my own WH and pieces / mats given to me by friends and clan) I managed to craft a circlet.Still don't have the shoes to get the complete set (i was lucky and bought gloves / tunic / stockings at very good prices). Burning / evaporating 5x18=90 key mats to get only one item seems to much. All it makes is more automatons farming and trying to sell at insane prices or they don't sell at all.
That kind of crafting system is extremely frustrating to legit players who have been gathering mats / adena and XP for 80 level's. It's a bit tough to see all your hard earned accomplishments just evaporate in one click. And the hardest part (at least for me) is to keep your patience and start all over again hoping that shouting for a week will get you the needed pieces to have a chance to roll a dice again. It's tough seeing all the bots that appeared in P.I. long after i started XP there already have dynasty sets .. And i still fail crafting .. I still cant find the complete item to buy .. I still burn adena and mats ... I still spend enormous amount of time to find again and again the key mats .. I still try to convince farmers / bots / power leveled toons to sell me some pieces not for insane amount of adena ..
After one whole month of trying, shouting, pming, mailing, there's not a single legit toon remaining that could have the shoes pieces and willing to sell some to me. The only pieces I find last days belong to farm bots which of course are just taking advantage of the situation. The pieces are nothing for them (compared to the amount of adena they can generate with other means) but are important for me. They don't loose anything if they don't sell me so they can just ask for 3m / piece ..
OFC, that's the game, has been that way for so long, we all knew it. I cannot complain, I know for so long that the craft system is faulted. Took the risk when I started crafting (only because I could not find ready items) and it came up to the well known results. If you are not lucky, you loose both time and adena. BTW, is someone at Luna is willing to sell me some dynasty shoes pieces or the dynasty shoes please mail Aule in game.
My 2c of advice.
If you can afford buying your new equip, just buy it even if it costs twice the adena compared to crafting. Crafting system is not for the occasional, legit players that have 1 account (except you just like the risk / adrenaline / drama involved). Crafting is only for those that can gather / afford to craft 10-20 items in a row and statistics start kick in. If you occasionally craft for yourself be prepared for epic failures. For everything i ever imagined to craft either after doing the math or actually crafting it, I ended up to the conclusion that eventually I could spot a market price of about x1.5 the craft cost.
Considering the 60% craft success rate and that's not very hard with 40% to fail 2 times in a row I have ended up so many times to the conclusion that paying x1.5-x2 more the craft price is not a bad deal at all. Ask yourself .. You roll a dice with 10 sides (numbers 1-10) 2 times. Anyone thinks that it so hard to get 1-4 both times ?
If you cannot afford to buy a piece of equipment, don't try to craft it either. 60% crafing is for those who needs the best craftable items currently ingame, or for those who craft for profit (and thus have enough money to lose on bad luck).
Besides, Dynasty is the best craftable armor atm. If you can wait for a little more than a month, when people start switching to Destiny and Vesper armors, you will be able to buy Dynasty sets for close to nothing.
If you cannot afford to buy a piece of equipment, don't try to craft it either. 60% crafing is for those who needs the best craftable items currently ingame, or for those who craft for profit (and thus have enough money to lose on bad luck).
I disagree with this Krissa, the 60% craft is good for those who don't have enough money to buy the full item, but do however have enough money/time to gather the mats to attempt a craft..
I disagree with this Krissa, the 60% craft is good for those who don't have enough money to buy the full item, but do however have enough money/time to gather the mats to attempt a craft..
Occationally I have enough badges to buy 1 smaller armor item (like a shield) or something with a GC Mastery book sale from TW, but most of the time I'm working with very small amount of adena, so the crafts are a required thing for me to do, or I'd be waiting 6+ months to make my Dyn set :( I've already told myself this will be the last set of anything I try and craft.
I believe this is caused by the low populated NA servers and low numbers on crafts.
If 100 players craft items on the same dorf in 1 day this dorf has to make sucess and fails.
But if 5 people will craft on this dorf in 1 day,they may all get fails.Ofc,i had 2 examples of my friendscrafting on their dorfs,one of them did 15 fails on top items,lost all his money and mats and quit game and the other one made 10 fails in top items,lost again everything and stopped playing with his main cause he couldnt afford to pay even for his bsss and made new toons to try make money.
A trick some people were doing on their own dorf was,before crafting an expensive item,craft a lot of c/b ****.When they made 2-4 fails then craft the item they wanted.But we dont even have recs+parts for c/b crafts anymore...
L2 was designed to work for 4k active people servers,the lowest numbers we have,the more game become unfriendly.
well john doe farm in den of evil, shoe part drop on each 5000 orcs :p
:p
I can't farm there with my StS .. With a server of 400-500 ppl (ofc there is also the summertime period that makes it even worse) I gues I managed to exhaust all parts available with 3/3 failed crafts :) Some clan mates XP there for 3-4 weeks and they managed to pick up about 4-5 parts total.
I've come to surmise over the years that this game is essentially a bunch of sick games all mashed together... games that have the capability to cause much frustration and anguish, and perhaps deep regret for continuing to play so long ;-)
Crafting is certainly one of these sick games. My Dwarf to date has crafted about 8 S grade crafts, and has succeeded 5 of them. In the end, I basically came out even Adena-wise, and after my last craft (which was successful), I basically lost all interest in worrying about crafting anything. I do admit though, that since I'm not quite at S80/S84 levels, I basically have a huge selection of hand-me-downs to choose from, which usually makes far more sense to take advantage of then taking a month or more to gather required mats to craft anything (and likely fail half of it).
Crafting, and not to mention enchanting, are not for those without patience. But at least with enchanting, you don't have to spend weeks or even months gathering enough materials to get the job over with, failed or not. With enchanting, it's wham bam thank you... boom, done.
That said, I think L2 has one of the best crafting systems available. It's just the cruel chance of success that hurts, and the difficulty of getting all of the required mats (perhaps this is really a non-issue in huge clans, I don't know).
If you cannot afford to buy a piece of equipment, don't try to craft it either. 60% crafing is for those who needs the best craftable items currently ingame, or for those who craft for profit (and thus have enough money to lose on bad luck).
Besides, Dynasty is the best craftable armor atm. If you can wait for a little more than a month, when people start switching to Destiny and Vesper armors, you will be able to buy Dynasty sets for close to nothing.
we need a place to vent Krissa! crying is a healthy part of a human's life and can provide a much needed relief.
on a side note. failed 2 angel slayers last night, thats what i get for crafting off a guy charging 1a for crafts! ha ha ha
Give me 100% craft on everything and keep the 60% craft for 60% of the needed material fpr people who like gambling
Well, you obvoulsy don't understand the basics of the craft. You already DO HAVE 100% craftign for everything. Right now you even have many items at 100% crafting for the price of 90% or even 80% of the mats.
And this 100% crafting is called "buying".
Failed again crafting Dynasty Shoes .. 4/4 failed crafts ..
Total: 6 Crafts / 1 Success / 5 Fail
Forgot to mention previously that slight variations (like the ones tested by lineage laboratory when enchanting mage / fighter weapons) may exist in crafting also. Seems that some parts are somehow harder to craft than others. I always had that suspicion that 60% does not apply for all, like I had the same for over enchanting. Fortunately the over enchanting experiment proved that. I hope they will run a same experiment for crafting also at some point of time.
Failed again with Dynasty Shoes .. 5/5 Failed crafts in a row for the same item .. Isn't it to much ? Does not seem normal to me tbh.
The only thing in common between all attempts is
1) Level 67 Dwarf clicked on Private Craft Shops
2) Always had 1 extra piece on inventory
Both should not have anything to do with failing but I start suspect everything :(
Any tips / advice ? (Except buy full item, I cant find for 1 month). I have spent ~150M (**** deserted Luna) and all the relative mats from my WH.
Statistics would say that I now have ++ chance to succeed, but I start to have very serious concerns. Has anyone crafted the shoes recently ? I start to believe that there must be a bug or some unobtainable condition / situation in the way.
I would be more than happy to keep trying just to prove it, but i have already spent a lot, in fact evaporated a great deal of my 3 years hard earned adena / mats. In addition to that it takes ~1 week to buy the 18 pieces. I mean .. 5/5 fails has ~1% probability .. Try even more to prove what ? Even 10/10 fails has some probability.
Sace, Moxie, do you have the ability to try and see if there is any bug (having extra piece on inventory with lvl 67 Warsmith) involved ?
From stats drawn during the weapon enchanting event, Korean Random is a dread thing. Those were stats based on big numbers of attempts, and it didn't respect Bernouilli's law. So the 60% probability is 100% likely to be very approximative. Not even speaking of long serials appearing, which are totally absurd in a rare craft situation but critical in weapon/armor enchanting.
Frankly, random is stupid. It would be better to have a fairer pattern.
Failing 3 items is not THAT bad mate. I know, it's tuff. Especially me as a crafter, I failed my S80 weapon not too long ago, while every clannie succeeded in crafting his at my shop. Makes my teeth grind sometimes, but you gotta get over it. I can assure you that many people have bigger misfortunes than you do :P
Take me for example, when lvl 80 came, I wasted 33 giant's codexes just to get my stun to miserable +10....
He he, I totally agree .. Problem is that I failed 5 out of 5 crafts in a row :rolleyes: Anyway, I ll try once more.
I just wanted to thank Sace, Moxie, Support and QA Team. Did not expect that they would get into such a (relatively) small issue, specially now with PTS just starting. Thank you so much ppl, very nice for us to get your attention.
The answer just reassures what we knew for a long time. Statistics, probabilities (what we call luck) can play some really wicked games. Korean Labs made some tests with crafting some time ago checking if the warsmith level affects success rate. Conclusion was that variations in success rates were about 1% (which can be considered as an expected statistical variation) between lvl 70, lvl 75 and lvl 80 warsmiths.
Sace, I hope you don't have any problem quoting the answer from QA. I guess that making the answer public (Korean Labs style) would not hurt anyone. Edit post if making QA responses public does not seem appropriate.
QA Response Given through Sace
I did some testing on this through Private Craft, and Private Creation Shop.
During testing with Private Dwarven Craft I succeeded 9 times in a row out of 10 tries with Dynasty Shoes.
During testing with Private Creation Shop I failed 4 times in a row and failed a total of 5 out of 7 times in one case.
However I also succeeded 9 times in a row out of 11 attempts with a Private Creation Shop in another case.
Keep up the good work, keep the community alive.
Thanks for the answer
The craft 'fail' system in L2 is rediculous concidering how it can take a player well over a month to collect enough materials for a single breastplate craft (Even if using manor for materials, the AA/S-crys/Sgems will take even longer to save up).
It makes no sence to "lose" everything from a craft anyway. Even if what you tried making was a mess of metal a small part of it would be useable as raw material again; so it makes no sence why you don't get a small proportion of some materials back (some iron/steel, for example, might make most sence for hvy armors or weapons).
Agree.Yesterday failed a tiphon's spear...and wasn't that easy to collect the mats :mad: is the worst ****** crafting system I have ever seen,in other MMO that I've played it never failed. If you think about it,in L2 almost everything fails,enchanting gear fails,enchanting skills fail,skill success fail...only ridiculous thing for nc to invent is level up fail,if it fails ''Ooops..!'' you have to make that lvl again...:rolleyes:
If you can't stand having crafts fail, then don't craft. I hear there are other MMOs where this is not an issue.. My current record for fails is 5 in a row on Tallum Boots. But I have a lot of gear which I gathered all the materials for and crafted, including 1 S80 weapon (first try there failed too). Some people, like me, can handle the losses, and come back again sometimes weeks or months later and try again. Others give up with the first fail..
Good for you. Though with High Five coming, probably 1 more try at Tiphon's is enough. Just wait and buy a Tallum Glaive at Lux shop then, and OE.. Not sure if the SA on Tiphon is better or not, but probably better to save mats and make the Dynastic Halberd which I failed to make, or even the better one, if you can get parts and recipes.
And I take the opposite approach. I assume 1/2 my crafts will fail, but if I get 2 or more items, I OE, rather than sell for money. I do sell some spoils, or give away to friends, since most cost me nothing to get in the first place. Don't need much adena, so I don't collect it. Can't kill mobs by hitting with adena, so the stuff is not much use to me! ;)
That might change somewhat in High Five when for 40 million adena I can outfit a toon in good A grade gear. Would still like some more Majestic/Nightmare, but the weapons & jewelry are all there. So I can see spending adena at Lux shop, spending adena and cubic pieces at warehouse and making A crystals.
The pain of failed crafts hurts my soul too much.... I buy stuff now. I collect everything that drops and if someone needs the mats I hand them over. If I see someone shout they WTB a mat I have I sell it.
I am at peace now and craft if a friend really needs something... if I succeed it is a big surprise.
The pain of failed crafts hurts my soul too much.... I buy stuff now. I collect everything that drops and if someone needs the mats I hand them over. If I see someone shout they WTB a mat I have I sell it.
I am at peace now and craft if a friend really needs something... if I succeed it is a big surprise.
yay, I fully agree with you :P
I buy stuff too, because many ppl tried rare and they sell the "byproducts" at discounted prices, also give all my mats to clannies, recipes got from quests, etc. I was only crafting in c1-c3 up to b grade, was clan crafter in privates, however it is too much work and keeping track of things, a crafter is really a DBA these days... Not to mention chances of failure.
If we cant cope well with failing, better buy.
M