Taiwan Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are instanced.
Russian Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are NOT instanced (as per normal).
If this is a localization/configuration option at patch time on the server please do not instance these epic raids and leave them as they are. Antharas / Valakas are one of the major sources of pvp and to instance them would be a huge blow.
why lock?
this seems reasonable.
although i guess it counts as a conspiracy theory...
i've never been to either of these raids...
i'd like to see a cross between instanced and non instanced...
so, you have an instanced Dragon raid for care bears, and a real dragon raid for hard core pvpers.
Taiwan Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are instanced.
Russian Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are NOT instanced (as per normal).
If this is a localization/configuration option at patch time on the server please do not instance these epic raids and leave them as they are. Antharas / Valakas are one of the major sources of pvp and to instance them would be a huge blow.
disagree. the fact that they are not instance has always made one side on a server more powerful and only makes the winners even more powerful over time, while the lesser side always gets subjugated.
you shouldn't have to pvp over things, pvp should be for the sake of pvp. It's why aion works in korea, but fails in NA. americans never pvp for sake of pvp, always needs to be a reward.
also, instance core/aq/orfen. (make them something like fire temple from aion.)
Taiwan Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are instanced.
Russian Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are NOT instanced (as per normal).
If this is a localization/configuration option at patch time on the server please do not instance these epic raids and leave them as they are. Antharas / Valakas are one of the major sources of pvp and to instance them would be a huge blow.
+1
NA servers are not carebear like Taiwan servers. If there's an option then let's select not to instance the raids.
Taiwan Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are instanced.
Russian Lineage II has Freya and their Antharas / Valakas are NOT instanced (as per normal).
If this is a localization/configuration option at patch time on the server please do not instance these epic raids and leave them as they are. Antharas / Valakas are one of the major sources of pvp and to instance them would be a huge blow.
Who cares?
You will be partying with wartags to kill these things in Freya.
No, but keeping them uninstanced won't change the fact that most NA clans will have to either drop wars to ally with other high level clans to kill them, or mass recruit from those clans - killing them, and the PvP for them - to kill the epic raids.
It doesn't take Einstein to figure that out, with current server populations, or even post merger populations considering the gear and levels that will be needed to kill them, on top of the number of people required.
Antharas and Valakas already cost many billions of Adena. The prices will go up, I guess, or people will just start using RMT to sell them, the way most Valakas are sold these days.
disagree. the fact that they are not instance has always made one side on a server more powerful and only makes the winners even more powerful over time, while the lesser side always gets subjugated.
you shouldn't have to pvp over things, pvp should be for the sake of pvp. It's why aion works in korea, but fails in NA. americans never pvp for sake of pvp, always needs to be a reward.
also, instance core/aq/orfen. (make them something like fire temple from aion.)
One aspect that should be taken into consideration in the instance discussion is that in Taiwan and Korea the maximum number of players you can take in is 200, and 200 resp. 198 (22 parties) is not enough to kill the Dragons with the present equipment. The Russians, on the other hand, could theoretically, if there would be no lag and they had the personnel in the right levels, try the raid with 300 people.
For general information, here are the stats of the upgraded Dragons:
The fact that people call the korean L2 player carebears is lauughable. Unlike western players(me included), they come together too kill and "ëpic" dragon. I do agree that they should be kept the way they are. For one carebears wont be able too kill the dragon, secondly, all high end toons are mostly in a pvp clan...thats what this game is about. I would like too see a carebear clan kill the new antharas:P....Gonna be instances...why ? if u read the artical on elly on RUOFF, u will see that pvp is the core there. If they take that away they prob loose alot of players (hint they listen too the commmunity)
The fact that people call the korean L2 player carebears is lauughable. Unlike western players(me included), they come together too kill and "ëpic" dragon. I do agree that they should be kept the way they are. For one carebears wont be able too kill the dragon, secondly, all high end toons are mostly in a pvp clan...thats what this game is about. I would like too see a carebear clan kill the new antharas:P....Gonna be instances...why ? if u read the artical on elly on RUOFF, u will see that pvp is the core there. If they take that away they prob loose alot of players (hint they listen too the commmunity)
Korean weren't able to kill Beleth before it got nerfed. So, not being able to kill the new Antharas doesn't mean anything. We'll have to see what X can do.
Korean's suck at pve... :/
Koreans have fun at PvE. But whatever. Historically, the dragons weren't farmed on spawn until recently, even on NC NA servers. In Freya, NCsoft just tried to put them back to where they were supposed to be.
Why make them instanced? So that relatively small PvP-hungry clans (which cannot kill the dragons by themselves) wouldn't spoil the fun for big PvE zergs, I guess.
Koreans have fun at PvE. But whatever. Historically, the dragons weren't farmed on spawn until recently, even on NC NA servers. In Freya, NCsoft just tried to put them back to where they were supposed to be.
Why make them instanced? So that relatively small PvP-hungry clans (which cannot kill the dragons by themselves) wouldn't spoil the fun for big PvE zergs, I guess.
Arent u contraditing yourself ? Most of the time the Zerg are the onces that think they can rule everything and thus pvp the most.
Also for US killing the dragons is the goal. I think for koreans it more the preparations, getting parties setup perfectly etc. For example frintezza supposed to be archer heaven...we just get one stacked titan party and frint is down before u can blink....after DOD en debuffs ofc
Arent u contraditing yourself ? Most of the time the Zerg are the onces that think they can rule everything and thus pvp the most.
"Nowadays term zerg is used in mmo games to describe force consisted of large group of lower level players (often with only basic equipment) who use numbers rather then strategy to defeat the enemy, therefore requiring no skill."
uh the koreans have proven themselves to be completely terrible at boss raids in l2. they just zerg it. (same goes for aion... we can kill a boss with 3 people that koreans use 3 parties for.)
someone from IS talking about making perfect parties and stuff like that is also laughable. go away neiji, you're clueless.
and yes, I think they should be instanced. either that or there needs to be more ways to get equivalent gear.
"Nowadays term zerg is used in mmo games to describe force consisted of large group of lower level players (often with only basic equipment) who use numbers rather then strategy to defeat the enemy, therefore requiring no skill."
this isn't true. zerg is meant to be a force of ANY LEVEL characters that's simply more than you have. Im sure US servers will be killing those dragons with 6-8 parties.
disagree. the fact that they are not instance has always made one side on a server more powerful and only makes the winners even more powerful over time, while the lesser side always gets subjugated.
you shouldn't have to pvp over things, pvp should be for the sake of pvp. It's why aion works in korea, but fails in NA. americans never pvp for sake of pvp, always needs to be a reward.
also, instance core/aq/orfen. (make them something like fire temple from aion.)
This is an open PvP game, why would you not have to PvP for things? PvP has no reward anymore. CRP's are farmed by getting heros or doing CRP bosses, not PvPing.
You insult Americans for being lolpvpers, but the Koreans barely kill any epic raid boss due to their lack of making perfect parties. Also, did you know that barely any Americans play L2 on the NA/EU servers? It's mostly Euros and Russians. Maybe you should learn the facts before insulting.
And why anyone would want to incorporate anything from Aion into this game is beyond me (most of the L2 community that moved to Aion quit after they reached level cap in 2 months and hated the PvP). Why bring anything here from that fail of a game?
I can't tell if this is a troll post or what, but wow...
I wish they would figure out how to make pvp specific gear. they could do a lot with instanced pvp zones and such.
What good would PvP specific gear provide? Maybe we could get bind on pick up too? How about we get a graphic downgrade and just re-skin WoW/Aion with L2 textures?
The gear in the game is fine, and PvP specific gear has no place in a open world PvP game.
No, but keeping them uninstanced won't change the fact that most NA clans will have to either drop wars to ally with other high level clans to kill them, or mass recruit from those clans - killing them, and the PvP for them - to kill the epic raids.
It doesn't take Einstein to figure that out, with current server populations, or even post merger populations considering the gear and levels that will be needed to kill them, on top of the number of people required.
And what information are you basing this on? The fact that we don't have Freya live on any NA server to test out the raid? Or the fact that the Korean's have historically always struggled with epic raids that we end up putting on farmer status after the first month of trying?
We have never dropped wars and raided with the X on Teon. Never happened and won't happen in Freya.
Antharas and Valakas already cost many billions of Adena. The prices will go up, I guess, or people will just start using RMT to sell them, the way most Valakas are sold these days.
...They havn't cost billions of adena for a looong time dude. I don't know what you're smoking while typing in this thread but these responses are even below you're typical response IQ level.
Valakas is killed with 1-2 parties with 1 death to pull the boss. Antharas is easy-sauce with barely any deaths.
In High Five, they implemented a item that everyone can get and take into an Antharas raid that is a CC wide brez. These raids don't cost adena to do except the shots to kill them.
Maybe try logging in once in a while, maybe sometime in the last 2 chronicles...
The fact that people call the korean L2 player carebears is lauughable. Unlike western players(me included), they come together too kill and "ëpic" dragon. I do agree that they should be kept the way they are. For one carebears wont be able too kill the dragon, secondly, all high end toons are mostly in a pvp clan...thats what this game is about. I would like too see a carebear clan kill the new antharas:P....Gonna be instances...why ? if u read the artical on elly on RUOFF, u will see that pvp is the core there. If they take that away they prob loose alot of players (hint they listen too the commmunity)
The Koreans are called carebears because they stray away from open world PvP where there are penalties. Not all of them do, but for the most part, there is a lack of PvP on their servers.
And mayeb they kill the dragon to "come together and kill it", but the NA/EU servers kill it for the epic jewel and the forgotten scroll that drops. The rest of the stuff is A Grade armor and some S Grade, which no one needs.
Korean weren't able to kill Beleth before it got nerfed. So, not being able to kill the new Antharas doesn't mean anything. We'll have to see what X can do.
You mean SH ;-)
But yes, I completely agree that the fact that the Koreans can't kill it currently means nothing. Koreans play for fun, NA/EU players Min/Max their chars/parties and play to win. It's a completely different playstyle which is why we typically destroy all epics on spawn.
zerg is meant to be a force of ANY LEVEL characters that's simply more than you have.
Nope it isn't. However, it's sometimes used in such situations as a derogatory term for your winning enemy.
WWW
Due to the nature of the NA players and the current state of the servers, I unfortunately have to agree that the dragons (and possibly all epic raids) should be instanced. These areas should be pvp intensive, but usually it's just exclusionary and only includes the top two clans or allies on each server. This weakens a server by overpowering a select few and alienates them from the rest of the players. This alienation leads to boredom which eventually causes players to retreat from the game. Also making these areas instanced can cut down on specific clans farming the epic items and possibly reselling them as parts of RMTs. The fact that you see people in town selling epics means that the wrong people have too many of them.
Besides, is it really pvp that your after? You're only pvp'ing wartags at the epics anyway. No one else ever shows up. You can pvp wartags at any time during normal gameplay. Why not just tell your enemies that you'll be in "X" location at "X" time and tell them to show up if they have the sacks? This could lead to some great and frappable PvP. Maybe that's too direct for some people, but it'll give heroes something else to talk about in hero chat.
This game already has plenty of avenues for pvp, but the NA playstyle and weak programming has reduced them to by-the-numbers farming. Territory wars have become a bad joke because of ward running and badge farming. Olympiad is worse due to rampant point feeding. Sieges have become waaaay too easy due to old programming issues (although I hear that's about to be addressed) and overdomination by two or three clans. Instanced epics could be much better for a productive and healthy server.
But yes, I completely agree that the fact that the Koreans can't kill it currently means nothing. Koreans play for fun, NA/EU players Min/Max their chars/parties and play to win. It's a completely different playstyle which is why we typically destroy all epics on spawn.
Either, but X did Beleth. But after all, all I saw was a recorded replay, so maybe it was SH. Troyz posting a replay from SH? yes that sounds likely. Err wait...
:D
It makes me laugh people saying that those raids are made to bring pvp, it happened maybe for a couple of times but as soon as a dominant clan rises there is no more pvp. Instance them and "maybe" you will have your open pvp back since more people will be able too catch up in gear.
Either way could end up being a good change. Without them being instanced we get to keep a few bosses that attract mass pvp. If they are instanced, the lower lvl/geared ppl "should" be able to level the playing field with most top clans, giving them more incentive to pvp.
But either way I doubt they will change the npc to port in, just find out when baddies are going to try to do the instanced version and be out there waiting for them.
Is that why most of the players on the EU and NA servers bot their way through all the PvE content and then use 3rd party programs to auto spam pots, auto target, auto alert, target daggers in hide, trick the server in thinking you are lagging to hide any char, see the stats and equipment of the opponent etc etc...?
Does all that cheating make the EU/NA players any better in PvE and PvP?
In my opinion, most EU/NA players don't have a clue how to play Lineage 2 without any assistance by a 3rd party program or a buffer/healer in bot mode (not boxed).
If I had the choice to play on any of the L2 servers, then I would had been playing on the Korean servers.
Antharas / Valakas are the top pvp jewels, neutrals have no business farming them uncontested.
Oh, so nova (top pevepe clan) is able to kill new antharas, valakas?
You think that because neutrals failed to secure epics in the past they deserve a free pass for future prospects ?
Yeah right, previous track record speaks volumes.
You think all clans were created b4 C4?
You think all players playing now started b4 C4?
You think being hypocrite makes look you cool? Killing an computer controlled NPC is careberish you know...
You think being hypocrite makes look you cool? Killing an computer controlled NPC is careberish you know...
Nah, Nova PVPs Antharas and Valakas. You should see Diego TSS crit Anthy. Down in like two shots.
instance the bosses and you take away the biggest accomplishment in the game. epics always have been the top gear to get. yet you guys want to make it easy to recieve the top item in the game? you kids have played too many private servers or would be better off doing so. i can tell you what, once someone has everything they need from the game, it loses that spark that made it so fun for them and they will quit. all you kids want is this game's top achievements handed to you on a silver platter. you wont pvp when you get this stuff, you will just quit out of boredom. this game has always been about risk and achievement. i would like it to stay that way. for those of you who don't? go play some 8x xp/sp/adena private server with the rest of the failures. the rest of us will enjoy our gains and losses in the big leagues.
instance the bosses and you take away the biggest accomplishment in the game. epics always have been the top gear to get. yet you guys want to make it easy to recieve the top item in the game? you kids have played too many private servers or would be better off doing so. i can tell you what, once someone has everything they need from the game, it loses that spark that made it so fun for them and they will quit. all you kids want is this game's top achievements handed to you on a silver platter. you wont pvp when you get this stuff, you will just quit out of boredom. this game has always been about risk and achievement. i would like it to stay that way. for those of you who don't? go play some 8x xp/sp/adena private server with the rest of the failures. the rest of us will enjoy our gains and losses in the big leagues.
Why do you think that instancing an epic removes the accomplishment? It can still be a monumental task of doing an instanced epic raid whether you're pvp or pve. Besides, if neutrals are the losers you all think they are, they won't be able to complete the raid anyway, right?
And I also think you're wrong when you say that people won't pvp once they feel they're able to compete. I guarantee you that virtually everyone in Nova is 5/5 for the epics and they still camp them and pvp. So I think it would benefit more than you realize.
Why do you think that instancing an epic removes the accomplishment? It can still be a monumental task of doing an instanced epic raid whether you're pvp or pve. Besides, if neutrals are the losers you all think they are, they won't be able to complete the raid anyway, right?
And I also think you're wrong when you say that people won't pvp once they feel they're able to compete. I guarantee you that virtually everyone in Nova is 5/5 for the epics and they still camp them and pvp. So I think it would benefit more than you realize.
i can guarantee you, that nova is not 5/5 as i was a member of that clan and still talk to many members. only the top no lifers have 5/5.
I know that from being in the top clan on servers for almost my entire time playing l2, after you beat the competition for epics a couple times, they stop showing up, and you get all the epics uncontested, only making the dominant side even more dominant.
People in l2 don't even care to pvp over things worth pvping over cause losing makes them too butthurt. It's a problem with NA players specifically.
look at any server besides the euro servers.... all the epics are uncontested. there is no pvp, and they aren't instanced.
i've been playing so long.. and was hoping i would have a chance at finally seeing anthras or any dragon for that matter.. and now it's instantly dashed....
bad enough our server can't even barely manage to get enough people situated for 3 parties to do zaken night raid.... which requires far more...
even after merges..... this will never happen.... never work.... not unless changes are made..
it won't matter if it's instanced or not.... it just won't....
I know that from being in the top clan on servers for almost my entire time playing l2, after you beat the competition for epics a couple times, they stop showing up, and you get all the epics uncontested, only making the dominant side even more dominant.
People in l2 don't even care to pvp over things worth pvping over cause losing makes them too butthurt. It's a problem with NA players specifically.
look at any server besides the euro servers.... all the epics are uncontested. there is no pvp, and they aren't instanced.
Going to a pvp and waging war against people with bazookas with pea shooters will always be this way... the odd ball time is to try to at least have a little bit of fun.. but when there is no hope in hell of even remotely taking anyone down due to SEVERAL factors... one of them being superior jewels that basically make you immune to everything and anything..... what's the point..... it's not even fun.. it's pure slaughter...
The current situation is that the power currently and consistantly remains as such..... they have the jewels, the weapons..... 300 element, the higher lvls (generally) and crazy enchants on the skills.
When was the last time anyone was familare with a senario where someone that was 83-85 joined a clan that was all just barely squeaking into lvl 80 with half of them still in 78/79...
It's super rare.... and they really aren't going to benefit much from the lower players...
So as time goes on.... lvls and play styles consolidate to the point where it's been completely counterproductive.. the PVPers are all in their group... the PVEers are all in theirs... the people that play casually and the people that play hardcore....
And it all comes down to essentially 2 seperate sides.... 1 clan against them all for the most part...
...They havn't cost billions of adena for a looong time dude. I don't know what you're smoking while typing in this thread but these responses are even below you're typical response IQ level.
Valakas is killed with 1-2 parties with 1 death to pull the boss. Antharas is easy-sauce with barely any deaths.
In High Five, they implemented a item that everyone can get and take into an Antharas raid that is a CC wide brez. These raids don't cost adena to do except the shots to kill them.
Maybe try logging in once in a while, maybe sometime in the last 2 chronicles...
You're ******ed.
Antharas sells for 5-8B Adena here.
Valakas is sold for RL cash - thousands of dollars.
If the epics become much harder to kill, the price obviously will go up because they will become harder to farm.
To insinuate that an Antharas or Valakas jewel costs the same as a Frintezza is simply ******ed. Maybe you should log into a town instead of sitting at a pole spot chain pulling MOBs?
Dunno about other servers but on Teon it is simple impossible for the couple clan/allies with legit ppl that have left (and believe me they want to pvp) to be any competitive with the 2-3 server factors(=full of ebayed+botted chars with any cheats that exists out there enabled).
So if we were talking about a clean server (maybe a new one) where GMs would actually enforce the rules and were doing their jobs then yeah i would agree that there would be no need for instanced epic raids.
But, obviously, that's not the case. There is an established status quo created with methods completely out of the book so, yes, such a change could be part of a solution.
Legit people must have access to any part of this game and only other legit players must be able to stop them through pvp, am i wrong? that's the basics...
Dunno about other servers but on Teon it is simple impossible for the couple clan/allies with legit ppl that have left (and believe me they want to pvp) to be any competitive with the 2-3 server factors(=full of ebayed+botted chars with any cheats that exists out there enabled).
So if we were talking about a clean server (maybe a new one) where GMs would actually enforce the rules and were doing their jobs then yeah i would agree that there would be no need for instanced epic raids.
But, obviously, that's not the case. There is an established status quo created with methods completely out of the book so, yes, such a change could be part of a solution.
Legit people must have access to any part of this game and only other legit players must be able to stop them through pvp, am i wrong? that's the basics...
There are always cheaters. What makes L2 special is that the ratio of legit to illegit is pretty terrible. There are easily more cheaters than legit players here.
In a perfect world, you're right, but nothing is perfect.
There are always cheaters. What makes L2 special is that the ratio of legit to illegit is pretty terrible. There are easily more cheaters than legit players here.
In a perfect world, you're right, but nothing is perfect.
but that's exactly what i'm saying.
Ofc this is not a perfect world, even "imperfect" would be a compliment for Teon.
Exactly because the legit/illegit ratio is so bad we need such changes.
How we expect legit people to have access to epic raids? That's part of the game no?
I'm pretty sure 1337 gosu players will find many other places to compere their money spent to ebay, scripts and *p*n*s skills :)
You cannot effectively dominate PvP without boss jewels.
Due to your clans impotence you wouldnt understand the latter so take my word for it.
You talked like I never ever pvp'd in my life. I had 5/5 boss jewelry and I worked hard for it and pvp'd for it back in the day. I been numerous times in all epic raids..been there, done that. I just don't care about anything in L2 anymore.
Regarding your boss jewels, just cause you say "you cannot effectively dominate pvp without' them doesn't mean that they are PVP items. If I recall right it says nothing in the description that they are PVP, unlike the weapon and armor that you can pvp it and, if I'm not mistaken, it says in the description "pvp".
Ofc this is not a perfect world, even "imperfect" would be a compliment for Teon.
Exactly because the legit/illegit ratio is so bad we need such changes.
How we expect legit people to have access to epic raids? That's part of the game no?
I'm pretty sure 1337 gosu players will find many other places to compere their money spent to ebay, scripts and *p*n*s skills :)
By having started the game early and kept on top of things (i.e. can't take any decent breaks from the game, reroll without having an optimized group/titan/DN to PL you, etc.) or becomming illegit themselves, because for a majority of players - there simply isn't enough time to do it legitimately and catch up or stay competitive.
Non-instanced epics are a good idea, but on servers with mixed players it becomes too easy to lock clans out of epics simply by farming them at relatively inopportune times. Every Euro player doesn't wanna stay up until 3-4am to kill a dragon, the same way most US player wouldn't want to do it.
Apart from that, it won't matter that much. Whichever clans that manage to kill Antharas/Valakas first will have free reign to farm them basically uncontested, instanced or not, because with NA/EU Server Population and Level disparity there won't be enough people high enough level/decently geared to form two clans that can farm it.
You talked like I never ever pvp'd in my life. I had 5/5 boss jewelry and I worked hard for it and pvp'd for it back in the day. I been numerous times in all epic raids..been there, done that. I just don't care about anything in L2 anymore.
Regarding your boss jewels, just cause you say "you cannot effectively dominate pvp without' them doesn't mean that they are PVP items. If I recall right it says nothing in the description that they are PVP, unlike the weapon and armor that you can pvp it and, if I'm not mistaken, it says in the description "pvp".
this has to be the dumbest post ive seen in a while
Dunno about other servers but on Teon it is simple impossible for the couple clan/allies with legit ppl that have left (and believe me they want to pvp) to be any competitive with the 2-3 server factors(=full of ebayed+botted chars with any cheats that exists out there enabled).
So if we were talking about a clean server (maybe a new one) where GMs would actually enforce the rules and were doing their jobs then yeah i would agree that there would be no need for instanced epic raids.
But, obviously, that's not the case. There is an established status quo created with methods completely out of the book so, yes, such a change could be part of a solution.
Legit people must have access to any part of this game and only other legit players must be able to stop them through pvp, am i wrong? that's the basics...
Your not wrong but that is something like wishing for worldwide peace...aint gonna happen sadly
Majority of real lineage 2 players want antharas valakas freya and all raids getting out of instance zones. If nc cant do it on freya also ok no problem, but plz let us pvp for antharas/valakas especially if that will need 200+ppl imagine how much fun will impliment, maybe will give chance for ppl to pvp more for this game that doesnt have much apart from it left.
For the people that say cant compete big clans you are completely stubborn and enclosed to your ideas, there are many legit players on big clans, and this game's puprose is to bring players together by pve and pvp. But since there is no more new lvl cap, pvp only left to bring players together and have fun. Implimenting more instances gonna totally kill the game and make it pve aspect one, having only a few "legits" around.
If u guys think u cant compete with big clans go make frintezza, but i doubt u can even touch it if u say you play lineage 2 5 years and you are still 6x or 7x and got majestic common jewels. And dont start with stuff about progs, coz friend of mine made from 74 lvl 79 in 4 days through AoE legit exp grp taking advantage of vit buff. In this game you just must have goals to go high and broaden your experiences like killing valakas etc which requires work with a lot of ppl not just small community. If u dont want it, stick on killing current instances like frintezza etc that should be even hard also.
Tiat, Frintezza, Ekimus, Freya are enough instances to keep players busy with pve aspect of game, more would imbalance pve with pvp.
Is that why most of the players on the EU and NA servers bot their way through all the PvE content and then use 3rd party programs to auto spam pots, auto target, auto alert, target daggers in hide, trick the server in thinking you are lagging to hide any char, see the stats and equipment of the opponent etc etc...?
Does all that cheating make the EU/NA players any better in PvE and PvP?
In my opinion, most EU/NA players don't have a clue how to play Lineage 2 without any assistance by a 3rd party program or a buffer/healer in bot mode (not boxed).
If I had the choice to play on any of the L2 servers, then I would had been playing on the Korean servers.
+1
And they may not get "perfect parties" because they dont have a train of all classes to choose from like cheaters in our servers.
Maybe clan PP is not available at the raid or the main Titan is on a beach someplace, so you may have to use polers and every DD and buff/debuff you have, no matter if it is perfect or not.
In my view the fact that our ppl are able to show up at any time with perfect matched party means they are cheating, at least the majority of those chars are cheats. There is no other way to achieve that on servers as sparsely populated like ours, no matter what they claim. This is in not a thing to be proud of, the real players are the Koreans, a real victory is more tasty when achieved in difficult conditions, not "ah, today we kill antharas AGAIN... boring, I wont go they dont need me, better AFK some more, there is a skill that is not yet +30..." No wonder ppl quit here, they dont do it because they dont have any chance to achieve something playing legit, they quit because they beent here done that all too many times before, and no game will keep up adding new content with the botters way of playing to keep them interested.
M
WWW
These areas should be pvp intensive, but usually it's just exclusionary and only includes the top two clans or allies on each server.
If you make a third side clan it will be welcomed on Teon.
Also making these areas instanced can cut down on specific clans farming the epic items and possibly reselling them as parts of RMTs. The fact that you see people in town selling epics means that the wrong people have too many of them.
What do you mean the wrong people? Why those who sell items in town are "wrong people" for you?
Besides, is it really pvp that your after?
Yes, when it comes to epic raid bosse we are after pvp. If you are not after pvp what do you need epic jewels for after all?
You're only pvp'ing wartags at the epics anyway. No one else ever shows up. You can pvp wartags at any time during normal gameplay. Why not just tell your enemies that you'll be in "X" location at "X" time and tell them to show up if they have the sacks? This could lead to some great and frappable PvP. Maybe that's too direct for some people, but it'll give heroes something else to talk about in hero chat.
Some people are doing this too but why all of us should only do this? Epic raid pvps are a pvp with an objective. Not just a pvp for the sake of pvp.
This game already has plenty of avenues for pvp, but the NA playstyle and weak programming has reduced them to by-the-numbers farming. Territory wars have become a bad joke because of ward running and badge farming. Olympiad is worse due to rampant point feeding. Sieges have become waaaay too easy due to old programming issues (although I hear that's about to be addressed) and overdomination by two or three clans. Instanced epics could be much better for a productive and healthy server.
WWW
My opinion - this whole post is a bull****. Go to WoW if you want an instanced based care-bear game. The game is fine as it is now.
disagree. the fact that they are not instance has always made one side on a server more powerful and only makes the winners even more powerful over time, while the lesser side always gets subjugated.
you shouldn't have to pvp over things, pvp should be for the sake of pvp. It's why aion works in korea, but fails in NA. americans never pvp for sake of pvp, always needs to be a reward.
also, instance core/aq/orfen. (make them something like fire temple from aion.)
Hi Soxy,
I fully agree with you. All bosses dropping epic jewelry should be instanced.
I never understood why people call PvP to a fight between a top geared character belonging to a clan that controls all epic bosses and a normal geared character (even if they are both the same level). Being equipment as important as it is in this game, I call this type of fight slaughter not PvP.
The true PvPer's dont mind everyone has top gear. In the end is wining by skill that counts.
Pls dont make these Antharas and Valakas instanced. At least u can make them instanced for limited time to let ppl test them, cuz on russian servers they couldnt be killed :(
p.s. most of l2boards users are lvl 70 pvp or some dead 1-side server players like sayha or devianne, so for some reason these jerks want this game to be similar to WoW. And Im sure most of Teon and other 2-sided server players will agree with me :)
p.s. most of l2boards users are lvl 70 pvp or some dead 1-side server players like sayha or devianne, so for some reason these jerks want this game to be similar to WoW. And Im sure most of Teon and other 2-sided server players will agree with me :)
You have no idea of what you are talking about.
Yes, I agree with instances.. why?
Because being in a top clan is just an excuse to behave like a ******ed and have a place to empty RL frustrations.
"carebear" clans have more pvp then what you imagine.. even against top clans.. just no 2-sides, because we're not stupid to fight against programs.
I can tell you, I've seen less whipes on Tiat with neutral clans, with ppl that have lower levels, worse gear, then with a top side.
The problem with Instances is that Top Sides will lose the chance to be the only ones to farm epic jewels and sell them for RL money. "All is well until someone puts his hands into your pockets.."
I think what most hurts "domination sides" is that now players are gonna get for free what they paid for real money in the past. I agree with those who said that adding more instanced contents might help on balancing the servers and prolly more competition will also encourage daily PvP. On the other hand for sure having instanced epics will be a loss for PvP content, but at now, since most of the fun on mass is destroyed by ninja ports or surpassing domination, I prefer loose that to see an increase on daily action then preserve the status quo and look at how game is dying fast. Gz to those "factors" who spent real money to buy pixels, now keep hiding your frustration with those omg-nomore-PvP excuses.. If you really would complain about no PvP all over the server, you would have done better to start since Delusion Chamber came out, where nowdays every side camp at anytime due to afk/safe exp.
p.s. most of l2boards users are lvl 70 pvp or some dead 1-side server players like sayha or devianne, so for some reason these jerks want this game to be similar to WoW. And Im sure most of Teon and other 2-sided server players will agree with me :)
The saddest thing is, a lot of players join top clans simply to not have to fight them. They talk a good game but the truth for some is pretty friggin' ovbious...
Roll with the rush so you don't get rushed? Yeah...
To be fair, I guess people also get tired of losing fights and not getting jewels/books/gear while watching these top clans hand out stuff like it's Christmas everyday. It's a game afterall and nobody likes losing...
The saddest thing is, a lot of players join top clans simply to not have to fight them. They talk a good game but the truth for some is pretty friggin' ovbious...
I prefer fighting them...
My almost naked cardi yesterday almost went red on a botted/boxed toon(another cardi) from a top clan on Teon...he kept running away.. if NC had already returned my gear.. he would be dead..
Ding, lvl 85 clueless person. Congratz.
its not about lvl 85 and not about beeing clueless. Instance = end of mass pvp. There wont be pvp for frint like before, wont be anthy pvp, wont be valakas pvp, only baium and sieges? Its the end of mass pvp in l2. Ppl will quit instead of paying money for only 4 hours of siege (even if its only 14$)
its not about lvl 85 and not about beeing clueless. Instance = end of mass pvp. There wont be pvp for frint like before, wont be anthy pvp, wont be valakas pvp, only baium and sieges? Its the end of mass pvp in l2. Ppl will quit instead of paying money for only 4 hours of siege (even if its only 14$)
Haha.. I have a feeling that neutral clans pvp more then top clans.
Ok.. it's not mass.. but also.. most mass pvps aren't really pvp.. it's more live PCvsPC... so.. I still say I prefer lolmass pvps. :)
And if your enemies don't appear.. try to lure them out.. start with a 9v9.. try 18vs18.. before you know it.. you might have a clan vs clan.
p.s. most of l2boards users are lvl 70 pvp or some dead 1-side server players like sayha or devianne, so for some reason these jerks want this game to be similar to WoW. And Im sure most of Teon and other 2-sided server players will agree with me :)
As mentioned above, you have no idea, what you talk about.
In general, on a healthy server those bosses should not be instanced, causes pvp for them is what makes L2 beeing L2.
But since we don't have healthy servers in NA/EU, instancing them is a good solution to ballance things out.
I think what most hurts "domination sides" is that now players are gonna get for free what they paid for real money in the past. I agree with those who said that adding more instanced contents might help on balancing the servers and prolly more competition will also encourage daily PvP. On the other hand for sure having instanced epics will be a loss for PvP content, but at now, since most of the fun on mass is destroyed by ninja ports or surpassing domination, I prefer loose that to see an increase on daily action then preserve the status quo and look at how game is dying fast. Gz to those "factors" who spent real money to buy pixels, now keep hiding your frustration with those omg-nomore-PvP excuses.. If you really would complain about no PvP all over the server, you would have done better to start since Delusion Chamber came out, where nowdays every side camp at anytime due to afk/safe exp.
Haha.. I have a feeling that neutral clans pvp more then top clans.
Ok.. it's not mass.. but also.. most mass pvps aren't really pvp.. it's more live PCvsPC... so.. I still say I prefer lolmass pvps. :)
And if your enemies don't appear.. try to lure them out.. start with a 9v9.. try 18vs18.. before you know it.. you might have a clan vs clan.
There isnt left for hardcore players, everything is farmed, everything is done. There is nothing left except arranged 9 vs 9, pvp for epic bosses, sieges. How the ***** making instance zones gonna improve daily pvp if there is nothing to farm? Tiat, zaken, anthy, valakas, fr, freya, delusion, kamaloka, etc etc etc. Soon TW/Sieges will be also instanced? Just a joke.
There are hardcores left.. they just don't see the fun of PVEing vs a wartag.. that's the same as hitting mobs... most hardcores just aren't in top clans.. and those that are, rarely log, because enemies either PR when the hardcores appear in radar range.. or they BSOE when their program uses all of their CP pots.
There isnt left for hardcore players
But those are maybe 3% of server population or less (if you don't count those who are just botted or bought chars).
everything is farmed, everything is done.
Then try farming new, improved antharas :)
There is nothing left except arranged 9 vs 9, pvp for epic bosses, sieges. How the ***** making instance zones gonna improve daily pvp if there is nothing to farm?
Cause this will give more possibilities to catch up for those, who have something to farm for (majority of server, especially if you don't count bought or botted chars). Thus more players for end game pvp.
There are hardcores left.. they just don't see the fun of PVEing vs a wartag.. that's the same as hitting mobs... most hardcores just aren't in top clans.. and those that are, rarely log, because enemies either PR when the hardcores appear in radar range.. or they BSOE when their program uses all of their CP pots.
Im sure, TW and sieges as instance will fix all these problems :)
Im sure, TW and sieges as instance will fix all these problems :)
If you have neutrals with better gear.. and levels... neutral clans might improve and actually try to be a "factor"(whatever that is) in pvp.
So.. stop complaining and let neutrals grow up. True.. top clans are QQing because they will lose a source of income IRL.. but hey.. the joke's on them.
So.. stop complaining and let neutrals grow up. True.. top clans are QQing because they will lose a source of income IRL.. but hey.. the joke's on them.
And this is truly all this issue is about. Instanced epics plus mats and AA being sold in town by NPC's is just a death knell to real money transfers and they all know it. Now these guys might actually have to get a real job or find another game to exploit.
taiwan lineage ii has freya and their antharas / valakas are instanced.
Russian lineage ii has freya and their antharas / valakas are not instanced (as per normal).
If this is a localization/configuration option at patch time on the server please do not instance these epic raids and leave them as they are. Antharas / valakas are one of the major sources of pvp and to instance them would be a huge blow.
If you have neutrals with better gear.. and levels... neutral clans might improve and actually try to be a "factor"(whatever that is) in pvp.
So.. stop complaining and let neutrals grow up. True.. top clans are QQing because they will lose a source of income IRL.. but hey.. the joke's on them.
Its not my fault neutrals always QQ like u about not having epics or other stuff. And this "irl income" excuse is old enough, try something different.
I vote (if there is any option...), to do NOT make instances. This supposed to be a PvP game in bigger % and if NC turns epic RB's to instances, there will very very less PvP and maybe ppl will consider to quit cause no PvP, no fun.
I vote (if there is any option...), to do NOT make instances. This supposed to be a PvP game in bigger % and if NC turns epic RB's to instances, there will very very less PvP and maybe ppl will consider to quit cause no PvP, no fun.
why do you need rb to pvp, cant you go outside town and pk people ?? :)
why do you need rb to pvp, cant you go outside town and pk people ?? :)
whats the point of RPK? that only means you'll needlessly risk dropping gear. anyway, PKing some unsuspecting person is rather boring as 9 times of 10 they wont fight back or even have a chance to fight back.
a non-instanced anthy/valakas would give a opportunity to get a really nice big PvP fight to see who gets to kill that mighty dragon.
a non-instanced anthy/valakas would give a opportunity to get a really nice big PvP fight to see who gets to kill that mighty dragon.
just lol
(its not especialy for you, Xalya)
you wanna pvp ....go out of town and fight your enemy dont wait all your clan to pvp...
Seriuosly you call this pvp , its only good pc vs good pc ...
and on my server its only prog vs prog cause many ppl are bad player and all know they sell epic on web
bot char/transfer and come to mass pvp ...and QQ on forum about this
so just to break b... lets go instancied Anthy/Valakas
after for the idea about the possibility to inscrease neutral clan, im not sure...
Yes some ppl can inscrease gear for pvp but many are here just to farm for fun cause it's only a video game with many way to get fun
PVP is not the only way
and im in pvp clan
but before cry about instance or not ask you if your clan can defeat this new rb ....of course without exploit/cheat ?
If you cant, you will stay in town for ever ? ...lol
whats the point of RPK? that only means you'll needlessly risk dropping gear. anyway, PKing some unsuspecting person is rather boring as 9 times of 10 they wont fight back or even have a chance to fight back.
a non-instanced anthy/valakas would give a opportunity to get a really nice big PvP fight to see who gets to kill that mighty dragon.
OMG i will play with xalya soon because server merge :p
But why only pking unsuspecting person ??
can you insult some heroes in hero channel to provoke them for a nice fight on the iop beach under full moon ??
Too bad honesty isnt one of the posters strong suits. This would impact their wallets and not the pvp they nether want or are getting for these epic.
They complain in hero chat that they are not getting clans to pvp for epics and yet here they are complaining that if it is instanced they will not get pvp.
What they mean is they will no longer have a strangle hold on epics and may have to face their opposition as equals.
If they wanted pvp they would not have left their old server in such a hurry.
Too bad honesty isnt one of the posters strong suits. This would impact their wallets and not the pvp they nether want or are getting for these epic.
They complain in hero chat that they are not getting clans to pvp for epics and yet here they are complaining that if it is instanced they will not get pvp.
What they mean is they will no longer have a strangle hold on epics and may have to face their opposition as equals.
If they wanted pvp they would not have left their old server in such a hurry.
Really? Why are we beating this same dead horse? Our enemies would be on equal foot if they actually decided to pvp. It is not our fault that we farm all the epics nearly uncontested when we have an enemy which on paper is more powerful. Sadly, their leadership tells them NOT to pvp.
whats the point of RPK? that only means you'll needlessly risk dropping gear. anyway, PKing some unsuspecting person is rather boring as 9 times of 10 they wont fight back or even have a chance to fight back.
a non-instanced anthy/valakas would give a opportunity to get a really nice big PvP fight to see who gets to kill that mighty dragon.
Change pk to pvp in that part and it pretty much sums up what most pvp is in L2 now lol.
Really? Why are we beating this same dead horse? Our enemies would be on equal foot if they actually decided to pvp. It is not our fault that we farm all the epics nearly uncontested when we have an enemy which on paper is more powerful. Sadly, their leadership tells them NOT to pvp.
I'm sure Cuba would be on equal footing with the US if they decided to declare war.
RL analogies are bad, but it sort of fits the bill.
The fact that they decide to PvP doesn't mean they will or can ever be on an equal footing with a competing clan.
Being able to farm the items and level in top XP spots is what gets them there, not going Kamakazi into some other clan for an epic they can't win battles to get.
Not only are they almost guaranteed of losing 90% of those PvPs, but they can be doing something more productive with the time they're wasting to go PvP.
Yes, it sounds crummy, cause this game is supposed to facilitate PvP. But, open-world raid bosses are [generally] a bad idea because nothing is stopping any clan from mass recruiting and stacking up top players in their clan to monopolize them (i.e. bandwagon syndrome, most of the decent players go to the top clan to profit).
Well Im in two minds ive played the game since OB, only quit last year after i was scammed by a guy i played with for a few years. I used to enjoy the baium andd frint pvps over that of anthy and valakas...but watching it over time it is clear that it is often dominated by 1 side. Now prehaps this is the advantage of being on top.... but too many russkie clans have taken and used it for money making... u just have to look at luna as the classic example. This in a way just kills pvp in the long run, as it creates a side which is tipped in epics.... which in turn wins olympiads.... which in turn makes a big diff in mass pvp.
Really? Why are we beating this same dead horse? Our enemies would be on equal foot if they actually decided to pvp. It is not our fault that we farm all the epics nearly uncontested when we have an enemy which on paper is more powerful. Sadly, their leadership tells them NOT to pvp.
So why complain then if they make it an instance? You by your own admission ( do you actually read what you type? ) stated you are not getting pvp for them now.
Sounds like its your wallet doing the talking.
If so then think about the fact your clan could do multiple raids at the same time. All those toons that afk xp'ed on 1 server that you transfered here would be able to be paid for much easier.
I been playing this game for 5 years. First i use to be really hardcore, now im casual playstyle. I love to pvp but im constantly being dominated in pvp. Im allmost lvl 79 ES and i barely manage to get my hands in an arcana mace and i farmed stones before nova closed it just in time to make it 150 water. Thats it. With my uber items. I still pvp and exp in tallum robes. Most clans i join in the past, wich i must say contain verry nice people and duchbags. Some of this clans have been nightmare and sunergy in the past. They helped me lvl up, do aoe groups and such. But boss jewels were out of the question. So aside from this previous small chunks of help i have received i end up doing thing by myself. I end up being war taged/ ganked/*****/ masacred/ 2 shoted/ 1 shoted and i have nothing good inough to defend myself with. Fully buffed BD with drac bow and boss rings ould 1 hit my donkey and then 1-2 hit kill me. This lead to me playing casual, i realized long time ago that no matter how much i try some items are totally out of my reach. By me being lead to play casual means i play less, if this happened to me it will happen to new players and old alike, this is what kills lineage. I have been in pvps for baium and such, won and loss. Still got **** out of the many antharas i have done and 3 baium, no ant queen or any other boss.
So please tell me how is it bad that people like me get a bigger % of the "chance to get boss jewels" pie?
Is the minor pvp fights for boss jewels worth so much then the actual health of the server?
Is dominating exp grounds or camping bosses worth people quiting?
Whats the point of pvp if theres no one to be able to be a good match for you?
Whats the point of fighting the same people over and over again due to the fact younger players/character cant reach the heights that hardcore pvp player have reached?
It makes sense for the legit ones to be upset at the fact alot of there past efforts might gone to waste with boss instances. But you had your prime, you have probably killed tons of players..i barely have 14 pvp kills in 5 years of play. 3years of witch were hardcore.
Time changes and i think we should to. I would like to have better items, better chance at them aswel. I don't want lineage 2 to end up like ****** wow, but this does not mean i must suffer not having fun in pvp cause i can have what it needed to compete with the rest. This is my opinion, so yes, i think instance will greatly help the server in general and disapoint a small group of people. But Server>Group of people
Tbh, having played 5 years this game, and only 79 with A grade Armor at this part of the game is a failure if you count how many birthday buff, events with 2h xp, .... we had.
the point to this is, people like you don't deserve a shot at the top epics. this is THE top items in the game and should not be obtainable by anyone. it should be obtainable by those who are at the top. otherwhise, whats the point of being on top? olympiad is being nerfed, so the people who love to do nothing but oly are going to have their days ruined because soon they can only play a certain amount of matches each month. the beauty of lineage has always been the risk involved with anything you do in this game. you want to play casually? fine, but don't expect to be able to compete with those who play this game 24/7. you want to pk some guy? fine, but be aware his clan could KOS you. etc. the game has morphed into a way to further customize your character so no one charcter is the same.
why would you punish the people on the top who worked hard to get where they are and put in the dedication to get these top epics?
ps botting/ebaying comments are invalid. if you aren't banned then your considerations count.
Tbh, having played 5 years this game, and only 79 with A grade Armor at this part of the game is a failure if you count how many birthday buff, events with 2h xp, .... we had.
why would you punish the people on the top who worked hard to get where they are and put in the dedication to get these top epics?
QUOTE]
because some people have got the top without worked hard, unfortunally the word is censored, but some people have prost..... themselves to get the top or epic jewel :)
because some people have got the top without worked hard, unfortunally the word is censored, but some people have prost..... themselves to get the top or epic jewel :)
the very next line of my post is out there, which was meant to quell your kind of response. you can complain all you want about botters and claim everyone over a certain level or with a certain amount of gear is a botter, but its all invalid.
The top is totally dominated by cheaters so change is needed. If they cant stop people from cheating then make it so there is nonthing to gain from cheating.
The top is totally dominated by cheaters so change is needed. If they cant stop people from cheating then make it so there is nonthing to gain from cheating.
anyone who gets to the dungeon level in mario bros 1 without death is a cheater too!? you people are rediculous.
the very next line of my post is out there, which was meant to quell your kind of response. you can complain all you want about botters and claim everyone over a certain level or with a certain amount of gear is a botter, but its all invalid.
Did i complaint about botters ? quote the post i complaint about bot :)
I
Is the minor pvp fights for boss jewels worth so much then the actual health of the server? NO
Is dominating exp grounds or camping bosses worth people quiting? NO
Part of the problem is that these "power players" rely on these boss jewels for real life money. Jewels are sold on trader websites for real life money or sold in game for adena and then the adena is sold for real life money or timecards. This real life money goes toward the funding of several bot trains where the toons eventually get sold for real life money. To many of these "hardcore" players this game is more than a game, it is a way to make money. To some players this game is their life. They play 16-18 hours a day. They have no real life outside this game. Just look on some of the servers at anytime during the day/night and the same heros are shouting almost nonstop 24/7. Maybe daily time limits should be placed on how long an account can be logged in per day.
But this is only part of the problem, there are many and this conversation can go on and on and on.
if it makes you feel any better i used to be on top. then i quit for a year and came back and now i am on bottom. all of these events have been accurately chronicled in the link i provided below...
the point to this is, people like you don't deserve a shot at the top epics. this is THE top items in the game and should not be obtainable by anyone. it should be obtainable by those who are at the top.
Your right, they should be deserved for players who busted there *** and are legit.But give me a realistic target so in my case i can say "hmm, now this looks like it can be done within a few month of work" so then i can dedicate more time to the game and shoot for a goal. Not hope at some point i get to hopefully enter a clan who will hopefully, eventually, in a verry random/slim/strong chance that i might get one...you see were im going with this. Hole point is not give it away, but to be able to try an have one withing the next patch/cronicle and not the 3 next.
Instance is one of the many ways.I ould prefer another but that's the ones being dealt on the table.
Dont u dare Instances these raids. You will put the final nail in the coffin in this game if you instance them. You will kill all game politics. Only thing that will be left is a siege every 2 weeks, and whoever has the biggest zerg will win.. If you do this i promise i will be quitting this game or going to l2. ru where at least the russians want a pvp oriented game.
Dont u dare Instances these raids. You will put the final nail in the coffin in this game if you instance them. You will kill all game politics. Only thing that will be left is a siege every 2 weeks, and whoever has the biggest zerg will win.. If you do this i promise i will be quitting this game or going to l2. ru where at least the russians want a pvp oriented game.
plz ncsoft instance epic raidboss, if you instance them, am****ngee will leave l2 and give us his stuff :p
Dont u dare Instances these raids. You will put the final nail in the coffin in this game if you instance them. You will kill all game politics. Only thing that will be left is a siege every 2 weeks, and whoever has the biggest zerg will win.. If you do this i promise i will be quitting this game or going to l2. ru where at least the russians want a pvp oriented game.
ummm... can I have your stuff.. and btw.. l2ru will get instance as well...
Dont u dare Instances these raids. You will put the final nail in the coffin in this game if you instance them. You will kill all game politics. Only thing that will be left is a siege every 2 weeks, and whoever has the biggest zerg will win.. If you do this i promise i will be quitting this game or going to l2. ru where at least the russians want a pvp oriented game.
ye... the game is bad... all except me are cheaters...
sad that i would never be a part of a raid force even for an instanced dragon, since i'm too lazzy and too carebear and too low lvl and too low gear and unfortunaly i also cant play well, just a random casual, but if i would be a cheater, i would kill all these loldragonslol solo !!!111
p.s. for example if (not-instanced) Anthy will get stronger with every re-enter also in Freya, in 2-3 days we will lose any chance for the raid success till HF-update; if Valakas can still be killed from a rock, it might be called a mid-night farm, but i havent seen a lot of good pvp there, so no care if it's instanced or not.
ye... the game is bad... all except me are cheaters...
sad that i would never be a part of a raid force even for an instanced dragon, since i'm too lazzy and too carebear and too low lvl and too low gear and unfortunaly i also cant play well, just a random casual, but if i would be a cheater, i would kill all these loldragonslol solo !!!111
I'm not god but judging by name of that trial account you must be Chowder....
Dont u dare Instances these raids. You will put the final nail in the coffin in this game if you instance them. You will kill all game politics. Only thing that will be left is a siege every 2 weeks, and whoever has the biggest zerg will win.. If you do this i promise i will be quitting this game or going to l2. ru where at least the russians want a pvp oriented game.
1. If the raids are farmable, making them instanced brings some game politics (in the form of allied zergs to farm them). If the raids aren't farmable, it doesn't matter if they are instanced or not.
2. NC West have no control over instancing or non-instancing the bosses. They will install whatever NC Korea gives them. l2ru is another story.
3. If you quit the game... gl. I doubt that CC will follow you anyway, but even if they do, so the better for the server.
the point to this is, people like you don't deserve a shot at the top epics. this is THE top items in the game and should not be obtainable by anyone. it should be obtainable by those who are at the top. otherwhise, whats the point of being on top? olympiad is being nerfed, so the people who love to do nothing but oly are going to have their days ruined because soon they can only play a certain amount of matches each month. the beauty of lineage has always been the risk involved with anything you do in this game. you want to play casually? fine, but don't expect to be able to compete with those who play this game 24/7. you want to pk some guy? fine, but be aware his clan could KOS you. etc. the game has morphed into a way to further customize your character so no one charcter is the same.
why would you punish the people on the top who worked hard to get where they are and put in the dedication to get these top epics?
ps botting/ebaying comments are invalid. if you aren't banned then your considerations count.
Let em eat cake, huh?
This is the kind of thinking that made so many royals in the world a foot shorter.
But seriously, where's the punishment? If you have epics, it's not like they're taking them away. God forbid you may have to hit someone more than two times to get a win. Also, just because some have luckily avoided being banned, doesn't make their opinions matter. These people are not conducive to a healthy server and they take away from NCSoft's bottom line. Even if they have 100 accounts, they've ran off 1000's with their unfair practices.
I wish that people could be trusted with the responsibility of adequately managing a server on their own. Then maybe we wouldn't need NCSoft to step in and start instancing everything. But the unregulated climate has led to nothing more than empty servers. It'll be good to see some people return.
Dont u dare Instances these raids. You will put the final nail in the coffin in this game if you instance them. You will kill all game politics. Only thing that will be left is a siege every 2 weeks, and whoever has the biggest zerg will win.. If you do this i promise i will be quitting this game or going to l2. ru where at least the russians want a pvp oriented game.
i find it funny that a bunch of lvl 79-80 scrubs have such an opinion on antharas. never bother showing up for any antharas fights now, why is that? its because you guys suck in pvp. you blame it on gear which anyone who pvps knows isnt as much of a factor as you see it. we pvpd you kids when ic/drac/ma was the only s grade and you all had it as well, what was your excuse then? you people won't change when you get gear, you will still use the same tactics you do now. which is not showing up to any pvp and getting 9 man parties together to farm catacombs.
Gear for the clan???? LoL...that was a good one....
"Please someone buy these 4 Antharas earrings for eleventy billion each....my poor clan mates need some shoes..."
What-the-hell-ever....
I guess the clan should stop buying people missing epics (AQ,Zaken) and upgrading weapons (high oe'd dynasty/icarus,vesper) because you think otherwise. Shouldn't be so bitter about being in a bad clan.
Having read all posts on this thread (uffff) I am amazed how some persons disguise their true intentions while arguing about the possible instancing of the epic bosses.
Having played myself all the MMO around for the past 12 years I still consider Lineage 2 the best one overall (including the adrenalin rush..:)).
Considering the current state of most NA/EU servers (population reducing everyday due to several factors from frustration to loss of interest) I think that the epic boss instancing is a very good measure to revitalize the game.
Having death penalty on open world PvP means the underdog clans (not boss jeweled, less geared, etc) need to die a lot on their fight to counter the dominating clans (fully boss jeweled, better geared, etc) meaning a huge xp loss (at high level) without any advantage. And in-between battles they need to recover lost xp while the dominating clans can use the time to increase level/kill epic bosses..:)
In the end, who is in the top will remain easily at the top unless the alliance/clan disband or become greatly reduced in numbers.
We all like open world PvP (or we wouldnt be playing L2) and therefore NCSOFT should improve the territorial wars system so we have sieges/territorial battles every weekend.
With instanced epic bosses this game will become much more interesting for 95% (of a already reduced population) of the server players, inducing all clans to reorganize, recruit, work harder in order to achieve higher aims (epic boss killing, challenging dominating clan, etc).
Believe me that if we keep this game on the same track (epic bosses not instanced) there will be the day (in 1 year or less) that the only remaining players on the servers will be the ones of the dominating alliances/clans with no one left to challenge them. And in this case the game will die and the people living out of L2 adena/money will loose their income too.
I understand that, if we get instanced epic bosses, the epic jewels price will be greatly reduced due to easy of access (compared to now) but is this bad? To everyone playing L2 honestly is really hard to amass the amounts of adena/mats needed to craft/buy the top gear within an acceptable time frame. The present game economy (over inflated) is based on an underground economy of "trains" feeding adena to players that feed other players controlling the open world epic bosses. I think L2 was designed with a different economy system in mind..:)
I wish the best for this game and the best I can think of is that L2 remains played for a long time by thousands of players, competing fairly everyday.
I guess the clan should stop buying people missing epics (AQ,Zaken) and upgrading weapons (high oe'd dynasty/icarus,vesper) because you think otherwise. Shouldn't be so bitter about being in a bad clan.
I'm in a great clan. We've all worked towards alot in game and we've all helped each other. I've been offered boss jewels and turned them down so that others that play more often than I do can have them. I've been given full compliments of mats to craft items so that my costs to craft have been "0". I've given out full compliments of craft items to new clannies that need it. I don't think it's possible for me to have chosen a better group of mates to hang out with.
But even though I've been on the winning side of pvp for epic raids, I still would like to see instanced epic bosses added to this game because it greatly ******s the real money transfer market. I've seen guys in this game offer boss jewels for real money along with other epic items and AA. The potential profitability of this market needs to be completely broken so that those that have ruined the game for so long can finally move on.
And to RottenBaron....
Well said!!
I'm glad that there are a few sane people on this board that actually get it.
i find it funny that a bunch of lvl 79-80 scrubs have such an opinion on antharas. never bother showing up for any antharas fights now, why is that? its because you guys suck in pvp. you blame it on gear which anyone who pvps knows isnt as much of a factor as you see it. we pvpd you kids when ic/drac/ma was the only s grade and you all had it as well, what was your excuse then? you people won't change when you get gear, you will still use the same tactics you do now. which is not showing up to any pvp and getting 9 man parties together to farm catacombs.
PvP where you have 0 chance of winning is not PvP.
It's a waste of time, and basically deleveling youself, even if you think the XP loss is not a big deal.
You really need to think outside of your little box.
They don't show up to PvP because there isn't any incentive to show up for PvP. You're still acting like they can actually win PvPs, wihch is not the case. A top clan can win PvPs against underdogs with a a 2:1 character/player advantage over them. That is how overpowered gear/class skills/levels are in this game.
Why go PvP over an Epic that they will roll you and take anyways? So they can stop complaining about boredom/lack of PvP? Lol??? It's a waste of time. The XP they can get in those 9 man catacomb groups (not even 6x players do catas with that many, unless they're botting) is worth more than the XP and time they will lose providing you with entertainment (which isn't a priority for them, and shouldn't ever be).
You're still acting like you have no clue why people don't show up for PvP at these things. It's cause most servers are one-sided to the max and there is absolutely no reason for them to waste the time/log in for it. People like you: "The Symptom IS The Problem!"
It's why seiges and TWs are pretty dead half the time, as well.
funny i seem to remember nova being the outleveled and outgeared clan on bartz, and we still showed up to epic pvp. some of the best mass pvps ive had have been for epics. if people don't show up because they think they can't win, its nof ault of the top clans. servers can get 1 sided, however they never stay that way for long. for example on sayha, there are many clans showing up to epics for pvp. off the top of my head they are nova, legion, vg, rr. none of those clans are in league with each other.
let me give you an example of a time when carebears got their way and it still didn't help the situation. the last update. before last update there were only a few places a person of high lvls could xp. those areas were locked down by the top clans. to solve this they added several new leveling areas and quests. this was done so that anyone had a chance to level, any element stone and most weapons/armor in the game. also the ability to get dynasty/icarus was added to many quests. what happened? those people leveled from 79-80 and stopped lvling. they now reside on these boards(instead of logging into game) stating that it is impossible to lvl still.
i am sure i could have worded this whole post much better and the forum trolls will be able to find bits and pieces they can take out of context and poke a whole through, but it is what it is. this is a perfect example of them getting their way and not still not being satisfied.
it is not fair for them to be allowed access to the top items in a pvp game without pvping for it. telling me, oh without these epics i am useless is BS. i just went into oly yesterday with 60 rainbow element, a dynasty crusher 150 ele no sa, and a full dynasty jewels set. i came out +60 points and won 19 matches out of 22. all these people do is complain. if there werent any bot programs, they would complain about the nasty pvp tactics or they would complain that it is simply too rediculous to put this amount of time into the game or whatever. calling people botters just because of their level or clan they are in is by definition biggotry and has no place on this forum or in game. the only people you have to blame for failing in a game is yourselves.
PvP where you have 0 chance of winning is not PvP.
It's a waste of time, and basically deleveling youself, even if you think the XP loss is not a big deal.
You really need to think outside of your little box.
They don't show up to PvP because there isn't any incentive to show up for PvP. You're still acting like they can actually win PvPs, wihch is not the case. A top clan can win PvPs against underdogs with a a 2:1 character/player advantage over them. That is how overpowered gear/class skills/levels are in this game.
Why go PvP over an Epic that they will roll you and take anyways? So they can stop complaining about boredom/lack of PvP? Lol??? It's a waste of time. The XP they can get in those 9 man catacomb groups (not even 6x players do catas with that many, unless they're botting) is worth more than the XP and time they will lose providing you with entertainment (which isn't a priority for them, and shouldn't ever be).
You're still acting like you have no clue why people don't show up for PvP at these things. It's cause most servers are one-sided to the max and there is absolutely no reason for them to waste the time/log in for it. People like you: "The Symptom IS The Problem!"
It's why seiges and TWs are pretty dead half the time, as well.
Exactly. It is pointless to go and try pvp for an epic boss, when it is 100%, without any doubt, obvious that the pvp will result in being massively rolled and then having to listen to lots of annoying "omg just quit game" trashtalk in hero shouts. People do not want to show up to those pvp just to provide amusement to the dominating clans. That's why there is no pvp, and why TW/sieges are such a snorefest (well, sieges are sometimes actually quite amusing at the castles NOT owned by the dominating clans), and why any attempts at provoking less powerful clans to war back are pointless.
Instanced epic bosses or not, it will end up the same - no pvp. And to be honest, even WITH instances Antharas/Valakas won't be killed by any of the smaller clans for the next year, simply because they can't bring the needed numbers of very high lvl people with top equipment.
i just went into oly yesterday with 60 rainbow element, a dynasty crusher 150 ele no sa, and a full dynasty jewels set. i came out +60 points and won 19 matches out of 22.
You really went there with bragging about getting points in Oly... really...
Lolympiads... even I at 79 win some matches with Tallum set, an Arcana Mace without element nor even Acumen (just a nuke augment) and +0 skills. Like that means anything. I'm still one shot and first kill in real PvP.
Exactly. It is pointless to go and try pvp for an epic boss, when it is 100%, without any doubt, obvious that the pvp will result in being massively rolled and then having to listen to lots of annoying "omg just quit game" trashtalk in hero shouts. People do not want to show up to those pvp just to provide amusement to the dominating clans. That's why there is no pvp, and why TW/sieges are such a snorefest (well, sieges are sometimes actually quite amusing at the castles NOT owned by the dominating clans), and why any attempts at provoking less powerful clans to war back are pointless.
Instanced epic bosses or not, it will end up the same - no pvp. And to be honest, even WITH instances Antharas/Valakas won't be killed by any of the smaller clans for the next year, simply because they can't bring the needed numbers of very high lvl people with top equipment.
Or maybe, the smaller clans could come together and attempt to pvp and take the boss. It is then only a matter of splitting the drops. I remember being apart of multi-clan raids where the leaders of each clan made a party where pick up was on random, and they would drop all the loot 1 by 1 and the BJ last. It just takes honest people... but there are plenty in this game and definitely in the smaller clans. Not to mention... most top clans are boxing 1/2 the raids forces you see.
Or maybe, the smaller clans could come together and attempt to pvp and take the boss. It is then only a matter of splitting the drops. I remember being apart of multi-clan raids where the leaders of each clan made a party where pick up was on random, and they would drop all the loot 1 by 1 and the BJ last. It just takes honest people... but there are plenty in this game and definitely in the smaller clans. Not to mention... most top clans are boxing 1/2 the raids forces you see.
pvp? have you ever been to Oren/Innadril/whatever non-nova/fs siege and seen what one party of Nova does when they decide to go pvp there out of boredom? It's just silly. Yes, I would guess if you could get ALL of the neutral clans together (like, a complete zerg), pvp for a boss against a top clan might work. But the problem then would be the inevitable "you took our boss, now it's pk time" result, and that's simply a bad deal for most smaller clans ("yay, we got 2 pieces of S grade stuff and now we can't xp anymore!"). And that's totally ignoring the fact that there are many wars between the smaller clans, so they would not cooperate anyway in the first place.
As can be read in the Freya patch notes, Antharas and Valakas are not instanced. There are no plans to make them instanced while we are in the Freya update. If it ever does happen, it would be in a later game update, and would be listed in those patch notes.
As can be read in the Freya patch notes, Antharas and Valakas are not instanced. There are no plans to make them instanced while we are in the Freya update. If it ever does happen, it would be in a later game update, and would be listed in those patch notes.
No one clan has the strength to kill the dragons anyway, like it's been said, let along have parties dedicated to also fight the PvP that may or may not also happen. You might as well consider them taken out of the game. A simple npc that can't be killed.
This is not a Beleth situation. Hell no... The raw strength of these beasts finally makes them worthy to be called dragons (if you wanna' role play). The amount of health they have, damage they take, and natural regen they have should give you a clue as to how impossible they've been designed to be.
Simply put, it doesn't matter whether they are instanced or not. NC Soft Korea have made them god-like and basically don't want them to die for a few chronicles.
Perhaps NC NA are thinking people will only have a chance to kill them if our tiny as hell servers put aside their differences for a while and band together just to kill them (an interesting idea/experiment but somewhat misguided) but the reason people don't want them instanced in the first place is the complete opposite.
It's cool that the bosses are no longer just a resource for epics and other drops any more, but don't expect people to "Come Together" (tm) to even attempt it imo...
People are seriously acting like they're be farming it after the servers go live.
This is not a "Koreans bad at PvE" situation, and a lot of them seem quite unwilling to accept that.
No one will show up to PvP for an epic they can't kill. To even think they will, is just ridiculous. They're better off doing other things. It's not avoidance, it's "it doesn't matter to us, so why should we care?"
The fact that someone is bored isn't a reason for them to care.
When clans on some NA servers couldn't kill Valakas, there was no PvP for it. No one showed up. Why should they have? If you want to arrange some PvP just PM the other clan leader and ask them to meet you at the monster race track, since that's almost what this ammounts to.
I bet some clan will figure out how to kill the beasts.
And then every other server will copy that.
Just like they did back when Gustin first slayed Antharas.
Don't think there is much to "figure out". It's a simple case of "beat the hp regen of the boss", combined with the known boss behaviour (e.g. the minions which need to be taken down by ranged classes). The problem really is the enormous amount of hp you have to whittle away, plus the regen, plus that you NEED lots of people, and everybody who is 82 or lower gets a damage penalty because Antharas is 85 now. It's a simple mathematical problem, our servers do not have enough high lvl people in one clan/alliance (or in different alliances, willing to cooperate) to do the necessary damage in a reasonable time. So it will take some time, until most people have the new weapons/armor and more people are 84/85, plus maybe some politics after the server merges.
hm yes, maybe if they find a way to bug Antharas and get him stuck somewhere, and then bring like 30 soultakers for one day of doom each :D then he'd probably die in a couple dance rounds...
Lets forget koreans because most of you think they give to much of the **** for tactics while we do brute approach. Talk about Russian players as they are in similar manner for brute force approach and always doing things with perfect party set ups for most efficient kill.
In the end, even they couldn't kill dragons yet and I prolly shouldn't mention they have same online on single server as all NA servers combined together?
You are either naive or... well lets end here because picture tells nothing for a blind one.
You have to see the siege force defending innadril to even get a hint of what im talking about.
The one time we went there everyone lagged for 1 full minute after stepping onto the siege field.
Ironically the lag seemed to be the same for the defenders though, since they kept runnign up to see who was dead or not.
It's not as bad as it once was, for 2-3 months now, I guess people farmed enough fame. Unless your computer is really bad and lags at 60-70 players :)
Anyway, back on topic. It seems that apart from some GM-organized raid, nobody in Korea so far killed Antharas (and they are already in the expansion after Freya by now). On russian servers, they have not managed it so far, either. Wonder if they will nerf the bosses eventually, or if they will leave them like that, which would probably mean no successfull raids on our servers for quite a long time.
Simply put, it doesn't matter whether they are instanced or not. NC Soft Korea have made them god-like and basically don't want them to die for a few chronicles.
Perhaps NC NA are thinking people will only have a chance to kill them if our tiny as hell servers put aside their differences for a while and band together just to kill them (an interesting idea/experiment but somewhat misguided) but the reason people don't want them instanced in the first place is the complete opposite.
It's cool that the bosses are no longer just a resource for epics and other drops any more, but don't expect people to "Come Together" (tm) to even attempt it imo...
NA server people will never work together to kill it. The strongest chars that can kill it are in the pvp clans, and pvp clans will fight each other for it, and if one isn't going to get the epic, there is no reason to work together to try it. Only neutrals and rpers will go just for the experience of doing it, the rest of us aren't going to waste the time/shots/xp loss. So they will never be killed.
and meanwhile, the ebay price of Anthy and Valakas soar to insane heights...
Is that why most of the players on the EU and NA servers bot their way through all the PvE content and then use 3rd party programs to auto spam pots, auto target, auto alert, target daggers in hide, trick the server in thinking you are lagging to hide any char, see the stats and equipment of the opponent etc etc...?
Does all that cheating make the EU/NA players any better in PvE and PvP?
In my opinion, most EU/NA players don't have a clue how to play Lineage 2 without any assistance by a 3rd party program or a buffer/healer in bot mode (not boxed).
If I had the choice to play on any of the L2 servers, then I would had been playing on the Korean servers.