are nostromo's aloud to be used in game? whats the deal with them?
anyone been banned for using?
would be nice if a gm could post a reply on this..
thx
I think I can see where there may be some confusion over our position on the use of hardware such as the Logitech G15, Nostromo or other programmable game devices. In actuality, our position regarding the use of these devices has never changed. It has always been against the rules when these devices are used to automate game play in a manner not possible through normal game play.
The best way to determine if how you are using these devices is a violation or not is by asking yourself “Can a normal keyboard/mouse combination replicate the same behavior?†If how you are using the programmable device can be done through a regular mouse/keyboard combination, then you won’t have anything to worry about.
One example I often hear of is spamming CP potions. These devices can be setup to endlessly spam CP potions with the push of a button. Repeatedly consuming CP potions is possible through the use of a regular keyboard by setting up a hotkey and just holding down the hotkey on the keyboard. The difference is if the programmable device is somehow able to detect the character’s CP level and automatically start spamming CP potions at a specific level and then automatically stop spamming the CP potions at a specific level.
There is a very distinguishable difference between using these devices to facilitate game play compared to using these devices to automate game play. We’re looking for and testing for the automation. If the character is found to be exhibiting behavior that cannot be replicated through the use of a normal keyboard/mouse setup, then the character is considered to be “botting†even if they are only using a programmable device like the Logitech G15 or Nostromo.
Will
As long as you're not automating your character through the Nostromo, you're fine.
As long as you're not automating your character through the Nostromo, you're fine.
so does making your nostromo right click every 1second say (so it assists someone in your party) the only thing its doing is pressing right click... thats okay then yes?
so does making your nostromo right click every 1second say (so it assists someone in your party) the only thing its doing is pressing right click... thats okay then yes?
wanna make sure this before i go and buy one
From reading HGM Will's post "There is a very distinguishable difference between using these devices to facilitate game play compared to using these devices to automate game play."
I would say not ok if you are not present while the "assisting" is going on. If you are at the computer just trying to keep from getting carple tunnel then it sounds like it would be ok.
so does making your nostromo right click every 1second say (so it assists someone in your party) the only thing its doing is pressing right click... thats okay then yes?
wanna make sure this before i go and buy one
I'd guess if you're actually sitting at the computer the whole time and do not go afk, that would be ok. But if you go shopping while spamming right click to assist, that's automating gameplay and no longer ok. I'd guess it should not only be "as long as it is not something you cannot do with a normal mouse/keyboard, i.e. auto spamming cp pots when you lose cp", but also "you're not allowed to make your character perform actions while you are afk". And yes, that would also mean that putting a rock on your F1 key to spam an assist macro while you sleep would not be ok.
At least that's how I always understood Spam's replies to this question.
Personally the whole point of having a nostromo is to be able to do things like this..
You can fully Automate everything.. technically you can automate multiple clients with a single nostromo if you know how to set up the macros for swapping screens and such...
Personally the nostromo and G15 macros should be 100% prevented.....
so does making your nostromo right click every 1second say (so it assists someone in your party) the only thing its doing is pressing right click... thats okay then yes?
wanna make sure this before i go and buy one
Tbh you can make a macro ingame that automaticly does that... just set a delay.. so if you can do it ingame, i dont see why you cant short cut it on a g15 or nostor
i've got a g15, but yet to find any use for it within l2....
i've got a g15, but yet to find any use for it within l2....
i use a G15 macro : spamming pick-up : put pick up in your hotbar, and use the G15 to spam this key (in loop) : u got a auto pick-up. it's the same for aoe : disable the macro at begin for the pull, and enable it when all mobs are dead :D
the only issue nostromo presents is the macro limit on in game functionality.
and the response HGM Will had didn't really say you can't use a macro which continues non stop... and at the same time he didn't say you can either.
the issue there is it is a gray area between being able to use nostromo or g15 macro systems to exceede in game macro capibility.
automated chat for instance.
a single nostromo macro can shout as many times on a loop...
but in game with delay your best is 6 shouts.
same goes for pot spamming.
as nostromo macro will continue to spam while you perform other actions.
the in game macro system will not.
these are the issues.
as we've determined you can't effectively bot with a nostromo.
although use of auto assist can be questionable.
the part i hate about the response is the main argument...
“Can a normal keyboard/mouse combination replicate the same behavior?â€
a question to ask yourself to determine if what you do with the nostromo is considered against the eula...
because anything can be done with a normal mouse and keyboard if continued clicking is applied. so, the question is flawed because it doesn't get specific enough. it should read something more like... "if i hit this one button, and don't hit it again, will i be able to achieve that same result with just one click of a mouse or keyboard command in the game client?"
but that's just my opinion, people who use nostromo like that the HGM response is so vague, it gives them justification to continue using their third party software macros.
are nostromo's aloud to be used in game? whats the deal with them?
anyone been banned for using?
would be nice if a gm could post a reply on this..
thx
If you wanna pull hairs, NiceDwarf, that link you quoted does not apply to this thread, because the OP is questioning the legality of the Nostromo, not the G15 keyboard.
the real issue is AUTOMATION if u cant do it with 2 hands on the keyboard (eg run 2 macros at once) its illegal because u couldnt do without assistance either hardware or software.
to be honest, all i wanted to do is make is keep right clicking on my name on my wifes computer when she is cooking dinner and stuff, i will be at both the computers,
As long as you're not automating your character through the Nostromo, you're fine.
Good JOB Sace!
Why bother to examine the question and produce a new answer when there is a 2+ year old answer available that was so vague at that time that even NOW it helps to continue to destroy the game further!
The actual device is not against EULA, but if even ONE player uses it's software outside of of EULA, it should be BANNED!!!
ANY hardware that has software not controlled by NC Soft that either allows macros or unlimited macro options SHOULD be illegal! As NC Soft has no control of any attached software to a 3rd party hardware vendor, these options should NEVER be allowed.
there are a lot of games in which GMs will observe for extended periods of time and if it's too good to be true, just ban...
the gms here are too scared to just ban people.
apparently their legal department can't argue well enough or something.
i think part of what makes it hard to determine who is botting, or misusing nostromo is the use of one player not having to talk to themselves, or ventrillo/team speak, and even skype.
people don't always type chat anymore.
when people type chat, you can observe that they are indeed there.
they should just block the nostromo macro software, i'm sure there is some way they can do it... even though apparently they can't block other programs.
on a side note...
i've been informed that newer versions of the nostromo software actually cancel macros upon any other action being taken.
this means that someone finally stepped up and shut down all those cp spammers.
will be fine, what is a GM going to do? pm you asking you a question to see if your a bot? when your clearly be there to reply... lol
I am not a russian but I understand russian. There are a lot of russian sites explaining how to set up the bots including "some" chat etc. For example I guess the GM don't know russian language. So it is enough to setup the bot program to any pm to answer "russian only please".
Why bother to examine the question and produce a new answer when there is a 2+ year old answer available that was so vague at that time that even NOW it helps to continue to destroy the game further!
The actual device is not against EULA, but if even ONE player uses it's software outside of of EULA, it should be BANNED!!!
ANY hardware that has software not controlled by NC Soft that either allows macros or unlimited macro options SHOULD be illegal! As NC Soft has no control of any attached software to a 3rd party hardware vendor, these options should NEVER be allowed.
Gamepads are the new way to play any game, the soon you get used with the idea better for you. They came to stay and more and more games are alreay being developed to use them.
ANY hardware that has software not controlled by NC Soft that either allows macros or unlimited macro options SHOULD be illegal! As NC Soft has no control of any attached software to a 3rd party hardware vendor, these options should NEVER be allowed.
I am wondering how exactly Pirotesa is playing this game without computer. Because of he/she is using a computer he/she should be banned according to her own posting. Because the computer is "hardware" and it uses a "software" and this "software is not controlled by NCSoft. And yes this "computer" allows macros and unlimited macros and omg... it even allows whole games to be played on it.
I am wondering how exactly Pirotesa is playing this game without computer. Because of he/she is using a computer he/she should be banned according to her own posting. Because the computer is "hardware" and it uses a "software" and this "software is not controlled by NCSoft. And yes this "computer" allows macros and unlimited macros and omg... it even allows whole games to be played on it.
There is a distinct difference, I wrote about a page describing that difference. I then realized that you lack the wit to ever realize nor comprehend what I would have said.
You are absolutely correct, I am playing "This game" without a computer...
Gamepads are the new way to play any game, the soon you get used with the idea better for you. They came to stay and more and more games are alreay being developed to use them.
Anyone willing to put their health at risk spamming buttons on a keyboard, which isn't even all that ergonomic, for hours at a time over days/months/years is a complete and other re-re
Gamepads exists for a reason. The day NCSoft starts banning Nostromo users is the day these servers implode, Lol.
Pirotesa may be happy, but I doubt many others will.
I am not a russian but I understand russian. There are a lot of russian sites explaining how to set up the bots including "some" chat etc. For example I guess the GM don't know russian language. So it is enough to setup the bot program to any pm to answer "russian only please".
we talking about using nostromo, not botting, everyone knows bots can talk back,
i wudnt say nostromo is botting, well for me i just want to make it right click, as they say "do what you can manualy with a keyboard", just being lazy, i wouldnt say thats botting... or anything else
i just want a straight answer.
i want to see "yes, nostromo and all it's macro systems are allowed in L2"
or an "No, use of nostromo macro enhancers is not allowed"
just a simple yes or no.
of course a yes would mean that they are suggesting everyone get out there and buy a game pad... and i'm sure the world would be a better place for it.
if no, they would be causing anyone who has already gone out of their way to purchase a game pad to panic, and some even quit because they can't use their infinite macro loops anymore.
There is a distinct difference, I wrote about a page describing that difference. I then realized that you lack the wit to ever realize nor comprehend what I would have said.
And where exactly is the difference? Everyone with just a little bit of programming skills can make "macros" (call them as u like) to simulate what the Nostromo do on any common keyboards.
And where exactly is the difference? Everyone with just a little bit of programming skills can make "macros" (call them as u like) to simulate what the Nostromo do on any common keyboards.
i just want a straight answer.
i want to see "yes, nostromo and all it's macro systems are allowed in L2"
or an "No, use of nostromo macro enhancers is not allowed"
just a simple yes or no.
There is no simple yes or no, because a Nostromo can be used in ways which are ok, and in ways which are not ok. So it will always be "yes, but...".
For example, I use a Nostromo because I can map the function keys to the keys of the Nostromo - that way I can use the function keys without having to hover my hand over my keyboard all the time. It is simply far more comfortable. And yes, also setting up a macro which hits the "f1" key (or whatever) for CP pots all the time once you hit that Nostromo key, until you hit that key again, is imo ok. Because you still have to manually activate and deactivate it, it cannot automatically start the cp spam as soon as you get hit and stop once your cp is full again, like the illegal programs do. But the Nostromo also can completely automate gameplay, e.g. permanently spam the assist button so you actively can hit mobs while being afk, and maybe put in another macro which hits the "cov" button over and over again with a 5 minute delay, plus another macro which does a full rebuff every 19 minutes, etc., you can see where this is going.
So I think an official answer like "you CAN use the Nostromo, but NOT to automate gameplay in such a way that your character performs actions without you yourself being present at the computer" would be helpful, or something similar to that.
problem is what people view as automated...
most people would say that having a macro buff every 20 minutes is not automation... well most pro-nostromo users...
so being vague is what will cause threads like this to continue to pop up.
which is why i'll never be satisfied until they give a yes or no, or just start banning nostromo users...
no more double talk...
stop avoiding the issue, just say yes already and get it over with.
if they say...
or make me happy, and say no... but i'm sure more people will be happy with a yes.
that's true, Ses have been a high ranking bot buffer for a while now.
i recall someone having one of those neat images black matte, image, white writing... stating Shillen Elder, number one boxed character...
They've basically been giving that as an official answer like that for years.
Unintelligent people just don't wanna believe it.
Everytime I see a thread like this, I /facepalm.
This!!!
For those that still do not get it...
G15 and Nos are ok if you are using your fingers/other body parts to push the buttons while your toon is active - if you use those things and then go out and take a week long trip (for example) and are still killing/picking up/etc.. then you can get banned.
Why bother to examine the question and produce a new answer when there is a 2+ year old answer available that was so vague at that time that even NOW it helps to continue to destroy the game further!
The actual device is not against EULA, but if even ONE player uses it's software outside of of EULA, it should be BANNED!!!
ANY hardware that has software not controlled by NC Soft that either allows macros or unlimited macro options SHOULD be illegal! As NC Soft has no control of any attached software to a 3rd party hardware vendor, these options should NEVER be allowed.
Hmm, yes and no..
I have used a Nostromo N52 for close to 5 yrs in L2.
I don't use the macro facility, but I do use it sa a comfortable keyboard, with the top row mapped as F7, F1, F2, F3, F4 and the little red button is F10 (heal pot)
If NC makes it illegal to use, then I need to start using L2 without ANY keyboard as that's how *I* use it.
...I don't use the macro facility, but I do use it as a comfortable keyboard...
+1million, my wrist thanks me every day for using n52te with its comfortable/ergonomic hand position (for me at least) instead of stretching my fingers out all the time to reach F keys/Ctrl/Alt on the normal keyboard
Personally the whole point of having a nostromo is to be able to do things like this..
You can fully Automate everything.. technically you can automate multiple clients with a single nostromo if you know how to set up the macros for swapping screens and such...
Personally the nostromo and G15 macros should be 100% prevented.....
Making your Nostromo change windows and press F12 or something for you and change back windows does something you can completely do on your own just not as fast. You are still sitting there playing the game and nothing is automated you have to press the button. Nothing wrong with that at all. Could you set it up to do things at timed interval sure you could setup every 120 seconds to do windows changes and sing and dance and stuff if you want in a loop then yes I think that would be a bit over the top.
If you are sitting there making it easier to change windows and press buttons a bit faster than you could do it then I see no problem with it. There is a destinct difference between using a bot program and these gamepads or keypads. To compair them is not even fair.
you could have two different buff enchant tracks...
like one could focus on time for normal buffs, and the other could focus on power for resists... whatever.
2 pp's would be pointless, they can only buff the same buffs.
With 2 SE's atleast they can both recharge.
I know that, and don't have 2 pp's, I DO have 2 SE's on different accounts to support my characters. I was just making the point about having 2 being greedy, in a friendly humourous way.
you could have two different buff enchant tracks...
like one could focus on time for normal buffs, and the other could focus on power for resists... whatever.
or... one could to time pof the other decrease.
Or you could have Prayer, PR, Unholy Resistance, Mass Rez on one and Clarity, Resist Shock, Major Heal, Major Group Heal on another?
Don't know many people who will waste time doing that many Enchants on boxed buffers. If I want great buffs, there are live players I can get them from. For PvE purposes, you don't need all those redundant skill enchants.
There is an official and straight answer to that question which I saw a few months ago. Now I don't know where it was and I couldn't find it to link it but it clearly said something like this:
"The nostromo itself is not forbidden but the endless loops you can set on it are!"
Period!
I agree though that you can edit your windows registry and add a little script which can run endless loops on the touch of a button without having a nostromo or any other third party program. It is still forbidden. Can't you understand? It is not the hardware/software it is the actual action "AUTOMATION" which is against the EULA.
AND
As that said you can get banned if you make an assist macro ingame, assign it to F12 and then edit your keyboard repeat speed to make it as slow as possible (windows control pannel) and then put something heavy on the F12 button to keep it pressed all the time. This is still automation and because NCSoft does not have control over your PC they can't actually check how you are doing it. You are automating gameplay and if a GM decides he/she can ban you for good and you'll have to do a lot of explanation on the support site with little chance of getting your account back.
So, the moral is - DO NOT AUTOMATE GAMEPLAY IN ANY WAY!
There is an official and straight answer to that question which I saw a few months ago. Now I don't know where it was and I couldn't find it to link it but it clearly said something like this:
"The nostromo itself is not forbidden but the endless loops you can set on it are!"
Period!
I agree though that you can edit your windows registry and add a little script which can run endless loops on the touch of a button without having a nostromo or any other third party program. It is still forbidden. Can't you understand? It is not the hardware/software it is the actual action "AUTOMATION" which is against the EULA.
AND
As that said you can get banned if you make an assist macro ingame, assign it to F12 and then edit your keyboard repeat speed to make it as slow as possible (windows control pannel) and then put something heavy on the F12 button to keep it pressed all the time. This is still automation and because NCSoft does not have control over your PC they can't actually check how you are doing it. You are automating gameplay and if a GM decides he/she can ban you for good and you'll have to do a lot of explanation on the support site with little chance of getting your account back.
So, the moral is - DO NOT AUTOMATE GAMEPLAY IN ANY WAY! Exactly!!!! its pretty simple really. I use a Nostromo and basically what it does for me is keep me from having to press two keys when using skills on my hotbars.
Good use of Nostromo - Macro for 2 buttons to be pressed at once like Alt+1 ect. As long as you are there at the keyboard and pressing the button every time you want to use the skill.
Bad use of Nostromo - Creating a macro that the acctivates a skill over and over and over at a given interval while you watch a movie. Like crafting shots or something like that.
So in reality it's up to the individual to use thier Nostromo in a way that would not be against the EULA.
Now yes he is talking in the pic, but 4 hours before that he was not saying one thing... It wouldn't be hard to prove he uses it to get exp, gold, or quest rewards while he sleeps.
Now yes he is talking in the pic, but 4 hours before that he was not saying one thing... It wouldn't be hard to prove he uses it to get exp, gold, or quest rewards while he sleeps.
You know what the sad part is? You are more likely to get banned for posting the name of a botter on the forum than him for botting
Thats how ncsoft rolls
As long as you're not automating your character through the Nostromo, you're fine.
Sace, you can automate the gameplay thru the Nostromo (but its very hard and limited).
What matters is if you are AFK or not.
check in log total game play, and see players with automatic mode, is easy see much players dead in map long hours.
it is?
it is?
it is?
automatic mode, have much players in chronos in chaotc mode for kill bots.
i make much chars all time see in same spot, same bots, gm is very slow for check in game my reports, in email is fary fast automatic confirm and after gm.
I try to use my G15 nt for automatic stuff but for better and confortable gaming, like instead of using the F1-12 keys I use the G-Keys and... NO I cant use them cus they made the L2.bin crazy hidden in task manager so the profiler dont activate so I have to make the manual set the profile.