Ok, so I tried the revamped pavel ruins on pts and was gutted to find that 90% of their drops were f-in metallic fibre AGAIN. I can't remember what Sel mahum or MoS dropped, but that could possibly mean it was metallic fibre also (though I don't know).
I mean really, wtf is that all about? It's not a massively used mat, the mat economy is already completely screwed (PTS cats sell mats for 4x Developers intended price, and they're cheap compared to live servers). So theres no point in adding wortless drops to avoid crashing the market. Theres absolutely no influx of base mats apart from farmers doing the manor and since the game seems to just boost people right to 76 now theres no mats coming from the lower level places (not like theres been many for a while anyway). If it weren't for the bots then I doubt the lower end manor system would even be of much use anymore anyway to feed mats into the economy.... the important materials such as iron, varnish, coal, charcoal and so on are all from pre-60 crops... 1-40 takes 2 days and 40-60 another 2 plus only non-ranged players can farm manor effectively.
WTF are you guys playing at with all this metallic fibre, really.... Fog, Crypts of disgrace, pavel ruins etc etc etc none of them drop any useful mats like Iron ore (2.5-3k a piece now instead of 200 RRP) or Varnish (1.5k). It's cheaper to buy a full weapon than it is to craft!
Come on, plase can you adjust these drops to make sense. All it'll take is editing a scipting file to make mobs drop better mats (if it needs to be high end mats then Steel, cokes, dmp, vop etc?). It's not like you need to change the korean game or get developers in to fix it! The influx of materials simply doesn't support the number of players any more, clearly shown by the farmers hoarding mats to sell 20-30k of each for really high prices, theres no competition for them.
I do agree it's a bit on the special-ed side. In a little over 3 months I got 67k Metallic Fiber just on one toon leveling with 3 people in party and loot was on turn. Granted, it doesn't beat my 153k Thread, but still...this much Metallic Fiber, there aren't enough jewelry recipes in the world to compensate for this much Metallic Fiber dropping.
It really is silly, not only does met fibre drop from everywhere, mobs also spoil it - in crazy amounts. For example junior watchmen spoil 1-17 of the stuff, so one casual evening with a spoiler and you walk home with thousands (plus hundreds of tat jewel mats). While iron ore, varnish and other stuff you REALLY need are rare and you pretty much need to lvl alts to get them.
Yea it makes one wonder if they didn't accidentally screw up a number when writing in the drop tables. Because I can't see the devs intending for one mat to drop this much.
100% agree, mobs need to start dropping higher level matts or piles of 20 iron ore. They drop the same amount of matts at level 85 as at level 15 and it takes like 400 times as much to craft anything high level.
I can see how it could work in other L2 regions if theres more people at lower levels. Development wise only giving more drops of one mat would allow devs to change a game and add more monsters without breaking a delicate economy since prices only fluctuate on one material.
But the game has been constantly patched with new gear needing more and more mats, boosts to lower players meaning they need less mobs and less time to get to higher levels (Vit and higher XP spots like VoS/FOTD) and theres been no boost to the influx of base materials whatsoever.
Since they also completely screwed up the ability of lower level players to make adena it makes sense they could make it off mats. NG-B grade gear is all in the shops and common items are cheap to get, but hold no value. Meaning lower level players can level but end up with no assets at all to sell to upgrade and non-common armor has lost value since only a small number of players want it, anything below S has no element and set bonuses aren't really worth it for the extra cash at those levels....... But the mobs they hunt don't drop enough mats to support a single A grd weapon craft let a lone a server full of people needing S/S80/S84 gear!! The manor system is flawed too.
There needs to be some significant influx of base mats from multiple sources so that they aren't in control of the hoarding players any more. Theres not even enough farmers about to stimulate the economy like they used to and drive prices down.... The mats problem has always been bad but now it is the worst ever, it costs more to craft anything A-S grade than the whole item is worth in town!
What about banning bot trains and revamping spoilers?
I'm a solo FS and all I need to keep my wallet filled is to spoil in HS for some hours: 1 PP, 1 SE (or just WC+EE) and one or two good DDs (or one Fenrir), and any spoiler could help his/her own clan in a great way: the earning would reside in not having to buy mats, if not just selling the surplus to other clans.
I agree, though, that changing mobs' mats quality and raising the basic mats' top spoil lvl would be a good idea.....I have tons of met fiber myself, and I'll prolly end up selling them in NPC stores, while iron ore comes to me only through drops, by now =(
In short: spoilers should be treated as clan helpers, more than just personal money makers. The clan helps the spoiler with exp and equipment while the spoiler helps the clan with free mats and recs. Same thing for crafters, of course.
Instead of 50% DDs, 20% Nukers, 15% buffers/healers, 4% crafters/sellers and 1% spoilers -> 45% DDs, 10% Nukers, 20% buffers/healers, 10% crafters/sellers and 15% spoilers. (To be applied to non-botting clans, obviously).
PS: I solo because my clan is composed of me, me, me and some inactive friends' alts, thus I'm helping only myself, atm. =p
And please, if you do not agree with my idea, just say "I do not agree, because..." and avoid offensive and mortifying comments, ty.
Silly idea: what about dwarves being able to "melt" composed mats to their basic mats? Maybe with some loss....i.e.: steel to iron and coal....?
In short: spoilers should be treated as clan helpers, more than just personal money makers. The clan helps the spoiler with exp and equipment while the spoiler helps the clan with free mats and recs. Same thing for crafters, of course.
Instead of 50% DDs, 20% Nukers, 15% buffers/healers, 4% crafters/sellers and 1% spoilers -> 45% DDs, 10% Nukers, 20% buffers/healers, 10% crafters/sellers and 15% spoilers. (To be applied to non-botting clans, obviously).
What on earth does this even mean? lol
PS: I solo because my clan is composed of me, me, me and some inactive friends' alts, thus I'm helping only myself, atm. =p
And please, if you do not agree with my idea, just say "I do not agree, because..." and avoid offensive and mortifying comments, ty.
Nope, say a stupid thing, you get a stupid response. You complain the best way for you to keep your wallet filled is to spoil in HS for hours...well when you're the only one in your clan and therefore have no friends and anyone to help you, you're being counter-productive, you don't expect someone to insult you for being antisocial?
Silly idea: what about dwarves being able to "melt" composed mats to their basic mats? Maybe with some loss....i.e.: steel to iron and coal....?
This was a good idea and was brought up by ppl numerous times, I doubt NCSoft will do anything about it. The reason I think it might be tricky (to them, at least) is if they try to implement this, they're going to try a brilliant idea and attempt to break down the materials by "grades" and will somehow screw the system up.
well when you're the only one in your clan and therefore have no friends and anyone to help you, you're being counter-productive, you don't expect someone to insult you for being antisocial?
The correct word here is "asocial".
Even if u sell all the Metallic fibre to the NPC shops
it doesnt give u anny big fortunes
When other mats are so scarse and that u cant even seed
Like Enria Mithrill ores Asofe and so on, even animal skin is scarse
It's as if they volunteerly want dwarves to fail, as well in spoils as in
crafts ?
Maybe they just dont like dwarves or craft all that much?
Or they dun see the logic in spoils ...at all
for example if a monster is a rock golem, wich mat should it spoil ?
Iron ore , varnish or steel be logic , do they ? nop!
IF a monster is a beastlike monster , what should it spoil ?
Animal skin , crafted leather, bones CBP maybe some other
things if he's wearing an armor like Iron ore or tons ...
Do they ? nop
this should be kinda basic don't you think ? that they spoil what
they actually are...
The numbers you guys are throughing around make me feel like im definatly doing something wrong. I don't think I have ever seen that many materials ever. Even thread or stems in that quantity.
Nope, say a stupid thing, you get a stupid response. You complain the best way for you to keep your wallet filled is to spoil in HS for hours...well when you're the only one in your clan and therefore have no friends and anyone to help you, you're being counter-productive, you don't expect someone to insult you for being antisocial?
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You really need a good psychiatrist, trolling has become a real disease, for you! Or you've just got fond of me? ^^
Anyway yep, that's a stupid "response", because I'm a euro non-PvP dwarf on a mostly US server. My plan is to raise my clan to lvl 4 and then join an alliance of other euro non-PvP players. But since my clan is so small, nobody wanna join, and if nobody joins, I'll stay lvl 3 forever....and thus nobody will ever join....you see the loop?
Anyway saying I'm "asocial" (ty Krissa) is a bit out of place, since I'm one of those who always help all the people they can.....I just dont have clannies to help with my spoils, since I'm alone, but I can solo pretty well. Thus no, nobody's going to insult me for being asocial, just you, probably because you're angry with me! =)
And please, for real, where did I complain about my way to keep my wallet filled? I love it! ^o^
Instead I was complaining about the fact that it seems the majority of players prefer other classes to spoilers because they dont see the point in spoiling when buying from botters is way easier and (might it be?) cheaper.
My point is that clans should stop paying bots and start to think of their own "spoiling teams". =)
The numbers you guys are throughing around make me feel like im definatly doing something wrong. I don't think I have ever seen that many materials ever. Even thread or stems in that quantity.
It's just a matter of time/spoil rate/party. I've never had hundreds of thousands of any material ever, but I've had over 17k bones, I have over 16k met fiber and maybe over 20k threads....not to mention stems, of course. ^^
If you spend 3-5 hours a day spoiling and never sell certain materials, you'll soon end with thousand of them. In 40-50ish catas you can get thousands of bones in few days, eg, even sharing spoils with party mates.
It's pretty clear that when you see certain low-spoil-rate materials in hundreds of thousands all in one store each week, botters could have a hand in it. =p
But the numbers Flipsy and Band0r stated are not improbable, just a matter of heavy grinding, patience and killing speed. Well, patience in getting the same useless material all the time, when it comes to met fiber! =p
The numbers you guys are throughing around make me feel like im definatly doing something wrong. I don't think I have ever seen that many materials ever. Even thread or stems in that quantity.
Depends in what zones u hunt and if u ever take a BH in party
if u dont well yes, that is exactly what u'r doing wrong
Party dwarves FTW
dont be silly - developers don't play the game, they have a life (southpark wow citation)
MF looks nice, nobody needs it, and it drops and spoils everywhere! there will be a time, when they will make an event to exchange mf to EPICs in a rate and ill be rich !!! *dreams*
And whats the problem with that? Prices will drop and thats aways good for everybody except for people that have RL incommings from the game. Your gazilion of useless materials will turn on usefull things that will drop prices and estimulate the craft market.
Manor don't work for usa servers, expect ncsoft to fix a 5yo drop table is utopic, relay on spoils is ineficient unless you are farming or have a perma 4x~6x dorf . Exchanging mats at npc is a good and simple solution for all these problems.
BS, low prices are good for rich or poor people since those who are rich will not get poor cause of that and will be able to consume twice as they can now and poor people will be able to get they'r basic faster. Don't forget that "fix" the drop/spoil table have only one prupouse, put more and more mats avaiable at the market, what will drop prices also.
You have those "whatever suits me is great for the game" blinders on and just refuse to look at anything beyond your own circumstances.
Therefore there really is no point trying to talk to you.
But I will tell you this. I made enough money selling crafted leather from FOG drops to all the I must craft dyn light dudes to buy a whole icarus weapon for my buffer. Deal with that. That will not exist if I can trade my thread for cl. Quit just looking at what will make your game easier, try to see sometimes that other people play this game too.
You have those "whatever suits me is great for the game" blinders on and just refuse to look at anything beyond your own circumstances.
Therefore there really is no point trying to talk to you.
But I will tell you this. I made enough money selling crafted leather from FOG drops to all the I must craft dyn light dudes to buy a whole icarus weapon for my buffer. Deal with that. That will not exist if I can trade my thread for cl. Quit just looking at what will make your game easier, try to see sometimes that other people play this game too.
You kidding? I don't need this change man, i don't waste time crafting anymore, this time for me is gone cause its a lot faster just to farm other things and buy whaterver i want and i don't buy anything with absurd prices cause i have patience to get good prices, 90% of the mats i get i give to clannies when they ask. People are here asking for better ways to get things, and if you belive it or not its cause i see that other people play this game too i suggest improvements based in what people needs, not based on my small world of "im a successfull l2 player, screw the others...", but its impossible to please greeks and romans.
You kidding? I don't need this change man, i don't waste time crafting anymore, this time for me is gone cause its a lot faster just to farm other things and buy whaterver i want and i don't buy anything with absurd prices cause i have patience to get good prices, 90% of the mats i get i give to clannies when they ask. People are here asking for better ways to get things, and if you belive it or not its cause i see that other people play this game too i suggest improvements based in what people needs, not based on my small world of "im a successfull l2 player, screw the others..."
So you consider yourself a "successfull l2 player" then?
BS, low prices are good for rich or poor people since those who are rich will not get poor cause of that and will be able to consume twice as they can now and poor people will be able to get they'r basic faster. Don't forget that "fix" the drop/spoil table have only one prupouse, put more and more mats avaiable at the market, what will drop prices also.
mats market is already dead, and has been for a long time..... all u get after what? lvl 60?... is all metallic fiber, HGS, cokes or CL.... and only 1 of them is worth anything.
No mobs after 60 spoil and hardly drop things ppl actually need a TON of, like iron, varnish, CBP, bones, steel, DMP, mithril ore..... for a lvl 70+ char, those mats almost fit the Indiana Jones quote: "It belongs in a museum" now.
And of course a mat trading system, shouldnt be 1 skin for 1 cbp.... but 1 skin for 1 bone..... or 1 CL for 2 CBP, OR 1 CL for 1 steel..... ect... ect...
Yea..something like Low-grade, Mid-grade and High-grade mats... Cuz...srsly... Metallic Fibre counts in TONs right now...we need 1/100000000 of that...
I don't think a mat exchange system would help, all that's needed is high level mobs dropping mats we actually need. Could even do different mats in different areas, would make people level in spots that they normally wouldn't too.
It's pretty clear the metallic fibre thing was done to avoid crating problems in the materials market, but the problems there are because mats don't drop enough, not because theres too much of an influx of them!
The only people who'd lose out with more mats would be the scammers sat in town selling bone, adamantite nuggets and mithril ore for 77k each because players are forced to use them due to the fact theres ararely anyone selling them in town. Or those selling metallic thread for 22k, Iron for 4k and DMP for 100k.
Heck more mats would even re-open the economy of buying low mats and making them into DMP and VoP to sell.... as it stands DMP is cheaper than buying 25 iron ore, let alone 25 iron, 50 thread and 5 mithril ore, it's the same for all high level mats cheaper than the sum of their parts. It's only 20mil more expensive to buy an S weapon than craft one at 60%, it's cheaper to buy a weapon with SA/element than a clean one and most armor is only 5-10% more than the cost to craft it.
No mobs after 60 spoil and hardly drop things ppl actually need a TON of, like iron, varnish, CBP, bones, steel, DMP, mithril ore..... for a lvl 70+ char, those mats almost fit the Indiana Jones quote: "It belongs in a museum" now.
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Well, tbh I can get lots of mithril and met thread, with my spoils, at 76....with some patience, I can get all the enria/dmp/asofe I might need for an A craft in...two weeks, playing like 3/5 hours a day. The problem is that there's only one area where I can achieve these results, and not always that area is free. For iron, bones, varnish and steel, instead, I cant disagree, they're pretty hard to get, except for some 1-5 iron units drops in some high lvl areas. Even spoilers have their problems. =p
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It's pretty clear the metallic fibre thing was done to avoid crating problems in the materials market, but the problems there are because mats don't drop enough, not because theres too much of an influx of them!
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You all keep saying "drop", but why not "spoil"? I think Bounty Hunters and Fortune Seekers are here for a reason, which is actually to help you all get the amount of mats you need in less time.
Thus the key word is just "spoil"!