i know the NC staff keep saying they have certain things planned, or things that are in the works.... etc.
however what i suggest is an open roundtable discussion.
so you NC employees go have your meetings, then sace (or other rep) posts the meeting's minutes (discounting the direct day to day operations and policy like bot ban progress reports etc) for everyone here to see.
this way we the players can maybe help flesh out potential problems, or suggest changes.
if we know what you're considering doing, we can help solve problems. but we dont know what you guys want to do, so you're stuck taking excessive heat from people who found genuine problems, or have legit gripes.
cut down on the QQ this way, let us see what you PLAN on doing. if you promise big changes, then post nothing for the past 5 months except on Hacking threads, we don't see any changes.
let us help you. let us see that the things we've said in suggestions actually make it to your meetings and get feedback. show us we have some voice, we're paying your bills.
LMAO
Why would they share the meeting info with the users of their product? We are not even stockholders. Yeah, this is not a realistic way for any company to operate. Not sure why so many in this community feel that their subscription fees grant them some sort of power over the operation of NCSoft.
Along those lines… I bought my kid several happy meals last month. I would like Ronald McDonald to send me all the executive briefs for the third quarter and the financial forecast for the fourth quarter. I have some insightful thoughts on salt.
More close resemblance:
Dear MacDonalds, after the recent food scare in which Salmonella and E.Coli have been found in the Happy Meals, I would like to know what is your planned policy regarding food safety so I can offer some insighfull suggestions as someone who works in the food industry for years.
LMAO
Why would they share the meeting info with the users of their product? We are not even stockholders. Yeah, this is not a realistic way for any company to operate. Not sure why so many in this community feel that their subscription fees grant them some sort of power over the operation of NCSoft.
Along those lines… I bought my kid several happy meals last month. I would like Ronald McDonald to send me all the executive briefs for the third quarter and the financial forecast for the fourth quarter. I have some insightful thoughts on salt.
you are not making linear arguments....
you play this game every day right? so you would have to buy your kid happy meals every day in order to draw the same parallel. every day happy meals entitles you to some prestige i am sure within the McD's community. if your kid who's happy meals you were buying was particularly alergic to say Onions, and you requested no onions on every happy meal burger, you would want to be sure that McD's never started denying you the right to reqeust no onions.
you would be outraged when one day you find out you have to buy your meals with all the ingredients now, and youll have to pay more.
essentially that is whats happening to us here in NCNA. the fundamental policy is changing, and we are in the dark about it, and whining at every new thing - recent events included. i personally want my 150$ back that i spent transferring 3 toons from devianne to Lionna, which merged, and then merged with the devianne players into Chronos. i spent that money understanding i wouldnt see those players again unless they also transferred.
but i wont get it, because NC's policy is no refunds. charge back your account for all the time you spent playing the game = perma ban.
if they would let us know what they WANT to do, and at least sound the idea off on us, i could have avoided paying that money for transfers. if they told us they were merging after admitting the transfer thing was a flop, we could have presented alternatives to the existing servers (like making some servers 2x rates and giving people who already paid for transfers a free transfer to a new server that wasnt their old server and wasnt the merge server).
see where i am going? NCSoft always says hey are listening, but you and i both know they only listen when you decry thei company in a public way on the forum. but at that they just lock and move without providing PM support on relevant issues.
HGM will has posted in more "ive been hacked" threads than he has posted about his supposed "new and drastic and awesome" changes.
so far i see only a one time double exp weekend that somehow requieres server maintenance to implement, and an event that saw more of the comunity upset rather than rewarded. this all could have been prevented if they had customer feedback beforehand.
to tie it back to McD's, if they suddenly only offered fries as opposed to fries or salad or apples or muffins as a side order, you'd be outraged if you really liked any of the other options. if they knew this before they made the policy change, they could at LEAST determine how bad their customer losses would be, and act accordingly.
Why would they share the meeting info with the users of their product? We are not even stockholders. Yeah, this is not a realistic way for any company to operate. Not sure why so many in this community feel that their subscription fees grant them some sort of power over the operation of NCSoft.
Along those lines… I bought my kid several happy meals last month. I would like Ronald McDonald to send me all the executive briefs for the third quarter and the financial forecast for the fourth quarter. I have some insightful thoughts on salt.
Dear DrachaVonDrachen, thank you for inquiring about the amount of salt we use in our happy meal. We some some exciting news for you! Next month, we will be doubling the amount of salt in all happy meals! Not only that, since most of our restaurants have been below capacity, we will be closing half of our current locations! Won't it be exciting to "rub shoulders" with your fellow happy meal consumers!?!
i dont understand how asking mcdonalds anything regarding a food product which humans consume has any resemblance to what the devs plan for their online game
i dont understand how asking mcdonalds anything regarding a food product which humans consume has any resemblance to what the devs plan for their online game
You're both consuming a product. Some feel that because they consume the product, they have the right to direct the future of that product.
"It would be great if NCNA would do what NCK does with announcing the 'future of L2'. We grow tired of translating the NCK site to see what NCNA has in plan for us and having threads deleted when the players are talking about future updates. Would it be possible for the NCNA staff to do to the level of communication that the NCK staff does? We understand that you can not give dates/exact plans, but perhaps you give us some in site as what are in the development plans/goals for the NA community - perhaps a 'monthly NCNA L2 update' kind of thing. In addition, can the NCNA Team (minus the Producer who can really DIAF after his last post he made unless Sace/Moxie write it for him and since he is very new has no idea the history is with the players vs NCNA) come on the forums more often to discuss what the plans are."
well, elrohir, does it make sense to blindly slice blowfish and serve it on a buffet, or to cut carefuly knowing what the consequences could be if a slip up occurs?
if you order the number 7 do you expect to be given a number 3 and no special sauce?
i ordered my number 7 and by golly thats what i'm not leaving here without.
you DO have the right to direct your consumption. not necessarily the product, sure, but your consumption. lets pretend NC wanted to have Double Xp Thursdays. i have the right to both know they plan to implement this, and plan on it being a Thursday thing. i also have the right to request they move it to Saturday.
as does everyone else.
and their brother.
who may equally wish it to be Mondays.
Let me help the OP out....
"It would be great if NCNA would do what NCK does with announcing the 'future of L2'. We grow tired of translating the NCK site to see what NCNA has in plan for us and having threads deleted when the players are talking about future updates. Would it be possible for the NCNA staff to do to the level of communication that the NCK staff does? We understand that you can not give dates/exact plans, but perhaps you give us some in site as what are in the development plans/goals for the NA community - perhaps a 'monthly NCNA L2 update' kind of thing. In addition, can the NCNA Team (minus the Producer who can really DIAF after his last post he made unless Sace/Moxie write it for him and since he is very new has no idea the history is with the players vs NCNA) come on the forums more often to discuss what the plans are."
yes, this was certainly part of what i was asking. however NCNA has recently hired Cabel and Will who have promised (and delivered) some forms of localized content designed specifically for us. they can be cited as saying they have their own plans for the game. those plans were more or less what i was on about.
You're both consuming a product. Some feel that because they consume the product, they have the right to direct the future of that product.
U dont consume an mmo. It may consume u, your time/life/whatever, but we the players are not actually consuming anything in regards to the game, so its nothing alike.
Furthermore, food born illnesses and mass wide public sickness and panic =/= lack of future event info in an mmo.
We simply pay for a service, much like paying to see a movie or or go bowling. We pay for a service, if we dont like it we can move on but paying for a service is not holding stock, nor should any company treat it that way.
In regards to the OP, in my opinion ncsoft has taken a large step forward with interacting with the community and trying to keep players happy. They take feed ack on events. If they took suggestions on events based on these forums (which less than 1% of the L2 community posts on imo), every suggestion would be for more vit events and to ban botters, mixed with flame wars from people accusing anyone better than them of being a bot.
There really is no point, ncsoft is holding more events than before, just give constructive feedback after each one so they can learn for future events.
U dont consume an mmo. It may consume u, your time/life/whatever, but we the players are not actually consuming anything in regards to the game, so its nothing alike.
We simply pay for a service, much like paying to see a movie or or go bowling. We pay for a service, if we dont like it we can move on but paying for a service is not holding stock, nor should any company treat it that way.
In regards to the OP, in my opinion ncsoft has taken a large step forward with interacting with the community and trying to keep players happy. They take feed ack on events. If they took suggestions on events based on these forums (which less than 1% of the L2 community posts on imo), every suggestion would be for more vit events and to ban botters, mixed with flame wars from people accusing anyone better than them of being a bot.
There really is no point, ncsoft is holding more events than before, just give constructive feedback after each one so they can learn for future events.
to consume is to utilize or to be the payer for a service or item. to consume mcd's is to utilize its available food supply to feed yourself. to consume an abstract is to utilize the persons or items required to illustrate the abstraction.
you are a consumer, you take in the goods and services that are provided to you. you are the end-user. this is pretty basic english.
you consume elctricity by paying the bill. but you dont ingest it.
You're both consuming a product. Some feel that because they consume the product, they have the right to direct the future of that product.
Not really, but they have the right to know about the plans for the future so they get prepared. If McDo says they will include hazelnuts int heir big macs and I am alergic to hazelnuts I wont go there and buy them and then arrive to hospital or even die.
If they said they dont plan to adress botting for 5 years I would have not joined in the first place but thye kept denying there is a problem with the cheaters in the first place, banned the ppl that reported bots because the bot identity must be protected, and when the game is dead because of this they started to make timid steps towards adressing the problem.
I would have liked to know a few things:
1. Do they admit that 80% of the chars are non-legit ? Or what percentage would they admit ?
2. Do they intend to adress the problem somehow ? (we got partial answer in the well known thread about 7 days bans as well as eliminating some clans from CH giveaway because of past CL botting issues, however that is still very little, very late.
3. When will the next merge come ? Naia is already losing players by the tons as I correctly anticipated before the merger and in the past their answer to that was more mergers to lose more players. Since it takes years to learn from mistakes, I guess the next merger will soon happen, while creating a new clean server will never be in the cards, because there are no players for it. Of course there are no players for it because past new servers were even more botted than the older ones, so unless there is a public commitment with constant updates about bans and GM checking every reported train and/or blocking 3rd party programs it will be the same old story.
In an open discussion we can reach an agreement and save the game. If the infractions and bans continue there is no chance for that. Situation did change, but it is yet very little, surely not enough to save the game, they have to go further, much further and implement real changes against cheating, very much so like other games do and even other franchises of L2.
If that isnt possible, then we need to know why, what is possible, how can we help, etc. There can be many valuable suggestions they wont happen if there is no feedback from both parts.
We told them what we want, we need to know what will be done from what we proposed, what wont be done and why, and what will be done at the initiative of NCNA.
M
to consume is to utilize or to be the payer for a service or item. to consume mcd's is to utilize its available food supply to feed yourself. to consume an abstract is to utilize the persons or items required to illustrate the abstraction.
you are a consumer, you take in the goods and services that are provided to you. you are the end-user. this is pretty basic english.
you consume elctricity by paying the bill. but you dont ingest it.
The electric company also doesnt have to give its customers a detailed list of what it plans to do in the future. They give that to their stock holders.
Also, you missed my point entirely which was touching more on the fact that food born illnesses can alter someones life and/or possibly kill them. An mmo can not. Ypu also took the wrong meaning of consume. I was meaning you consume mcdonalds, as in injest it physically into your body. Not in the sense that we are consumers of a product, which still would not justify what the OP is wanting even looking at it from a consumer perspective.
Dear DrachaVonDrachen, thank you for inquiring about the amount of salt we use in our happy meal. We some some exciting news for you! Next month, we will be doubling the amount of salt in all happy meals! Not only that, since most of our restaurants have been below capacity, we will be closing half of our current locations! Won't it be exciting to "rub shoulders" with your fellow happy meal consumers!?!
Also, you missed my point entirely which was touching more on the fact that food born illnesses can alter someones life and/or possibly kill them. An mmo can not.
There are cases in which MMO and even much lower level games killed, but that is besides the point.
Nobody asked details on who will be hired in which position, how many jobs will be shed, how much will the new headquarters rent be and the like.
We want to know very few speciffic things regarding gameplay and that is all. We want to know first and foremost when will be cheating adressed and an estimated date when measures will be taken and how, second when we will get updates and when will be next merger among other things. I am curious mostly where is the treshold regarding subscriptions when the game will be closed in NA and how far we are of that goal so we can estimate how long we have till the bots close the game completely.
Stuff like that.
M
You're both consuming a product. Some feel that because they consume the product, they have the right to direct the future of that product.
Correction,L2 players are NOT just consuming a product,they are co-developing the product since they are the people who make the toons,lvl them and create all the world inside.With their ''life'' the game can be tested to see if his goals can be achieved or changes have to be made.
Without players,L2 would be nothing else than npcs and mobs,without his customers McDo would still had his meals prepaired and could sell them somewhere else.
There are cases in which MMO and even much lower level games killed, but that is besides the point.
Nobody asked details on who will be hired in which position, how many jobs will be shed, how much will the new headquarters rent be and the like.
We want to know very few speciffic things regarding gameplay and that is all. We want to know first and foremost when will be cheating adressed and an estimated date when measures will be taken and how, second when we will get updates and when will be next merger among other things. I am curious mostly where is the treshold regarding subscriptions when the game will be closed in NA and how far we are of that goal so we can estimate how long we have till the bots close the game completely.
Stuff like that.
M
cheating was addressed in moxie's thread where she stated that people will be warned for botting with temp bans initially, then perma banned on 2nd offense.
the next update will most likely be all of korea's high five updates rolled into 1 large update for ncwest around the january/febuary time frame.
Sace has stated there will be no mergers in any near future.
The game wont be closed in na, as L1 is still going with servers being supported by ncsoft with a small, dedicated population.
bots wont close the game because for each bot banned, another appears. the game is filled with people who either love L2, or are too addicted to quit. when high end chars get banned they usually bot up another char or purchase a char.
as a side note, im waiting for the day that ncsoft offers a payment service to unban old accounts for a 1 time charge of $100. if you think about it, the user of a banned char usually starts a new one ($15 time card and $25 cd key). if ncsoft just charged $100 to unban the char with the statement that if its banned again, the person will have to pay another $100 to unban it again, ncsoft would make more money than with just banning. not to mention look at how many people would come back if they got their char back that was banned and the increase in account payments per month. the rage on these forums would be fun to watch lol (btw this is all speculation, but with the relax approach to bots that is currently being taken, i dont see this as a far stretch of the imagination)
p.s. i have never been banned so dont accuse me of wanting a char back
p.p.s. before u say that all the legits would leave if they did that, i garantee there are more banned chars who would come back than the 100% legits who care enough to quit due to banned chars being allowed back. itd be in ncsofts financial interest.
p.p.p.s. cant wait for the flames with these comments ;-)
edit/p.p.p.p.s. i also bet the new update wont be called high five
p.p.p.p.p.s. i think i just broke the record for most p.s. variations
im talking about now and end game players, not the stupid random chinese farmer bots
thats the difference twixt you and i, sir.
i dont differentiate between you and a chinese farmer bot. cause you and he both pay the same, and are valued equally in that regard. the bold move to ban his 9 accounts and keep your one account is a move that may in fact have prompted you to leave if you should suddenly see so few players on your server.
i dont differentiate between you and a chinese farmer bot. cause you and he both pay the same, and are valued equally in that regard. the bold move to ban his 9 accounts and keep your one account is a move that may in fact have prompted you to leave if you should suddenly see so few players on your server.
hence, banning closes servers.
i never understood why people insist on pushing their own topics completely off topic.
also, thanks for saying im the same as a chinese farmer bot, while leaving yourself out of the discussion completely
I personally would love to see a Development round table, as a game designer it would be fantastic to see how NCsoft runs itself in its day to day operations. +++++ for OP
I just want them to put out a product. If I like it I'll pay for it, if not I'll leave. I dont care how they make it.
I dont care how McDonalds makes its products either. I dont like them, so I leave.
I see games as art, business, and entertainment all in one. I cant tell an artist how to do their work, or a businessman, or an entertainer. Because I am neither.
The worst shows I have seen in entertainment or sports are the ones where they did events, where they let the viewers choose through polling what they wanted to see. I thought it would be awesome but they were the worst shows hands down.
It was then I realized I should leave the production to the professionals. If I like it I'll pay, if not I'll leave.
Seems to me the OP consumes alot, and thinks he is entitled to certain rights.
He/she must have forgotten he signs a EULA every time he logs in, giving up any rights whatsoever.
Ironic parallels to McDonalds found! rofl.
Whether giving up rights in the EULA is legal in all jurisdictions remains to be seen, but that is not the point here, not even by far.
As you see that approach (you pay us and we are not bound to give anything in return, moreover we reservet he right to kick you in the butt anytime we want) is not working and NCNA is very seriously in the red and going down more every day.
As such, we, the ppl, make an offer to save the situation by agreement, because dictating clearly didnt work and it is unlikely to work in the future.
That is, if they want to listen and dont hope still that by some miracle more bots will sign up and save the game.
M
Whether giving up rights in the EULA is legal in all jurisdictions remains to be seen, but that is not the point here, not even by far.
As you see that approach (you pay us and we are not bound to give anything in return, moreover we reservet he right to kick you in the butt anytime we want) is not working and NCNA is very seriously in the red and going down more every day.
As such, we, the ppl, make an offer to save the situation by agreement, because dictating clearly didnt work and it is unlikely to work in the future.
That is, if they want to listen and dont hope still that by some miracle more bots will sign up and save the game.
M
NCsoft is one of the largest gaming companies in the world. if you even think they are going to be dumb enough to put a EULA that isn't legal you are just a fool.
NCsoft is one of the largest gaming companies in the world. if you even think they are going to be dumb enough to put a EULA that isn't legal you are just a fool.
For sure they put something that is legal in their eula, but there have been a few cases that challenged them where they lost for having term that were overly harsh. Microsoft being 1 of those hit in court and having their eula busted to pieces