After thinking about this for a while, I have noticed fundamental flaws in the game which promotes a poor environment for the players. I'll like to start off with saying, good job to the GM's for clearing up the bots on server (at least on Chronos). This was definitely a step in the right direction.
However, other forms of cheating are still prevalent and in some situations, are almost necessary for mass PvP. This is due to the amount of lag their is in mass PvP.
But aside from cheating, the game is still seriously flawed. I think the game developers have lost sight in how to create realistic PvP conflicts. As a result, most people in game do not want to PvP. This is really bad considering that is what Lineage 2 is all about.
The instancing of epic bosses/tiat is probably the worst thing that could have been done. I understand the reason behind it, but this method does not promote a healthy server. In the past, if you wanted to become stronger in Lineage 2, you had to PvP to get to that level. If I started a new character right now, I could level up to 84/85 AND get the top gear (minus a baium ring) without ever having to PvP. The average player has little incentive to join a PvP clan at the moment.
Also, the fact that there are no GROUP xp spots that require 9 live players to survive. The best xp in the game can be done with 2 people boxing 8 characters. The Seed of Annihilation was a step in the right direction but still, the exp is not that great with a 9 man party so as a result people do not go there often. So odds are, if you go to SoA you will probably not run into an enemy clan (or any clan really). The exp issue is being addressed in High Five with less exp need to get to 85. And I HOPE, the new Dragon Valley fixes the leveling spot issue but only time will tell.
Bottom line is, aside from the actual PvP itself, there is no incentive to PvP. The game should be about playing with your friends and trying to get better at PvP as a group.
You will continue to find that it sucks as long as you (plus the other 93% server population) want this game to be westernised. This is a Korean game and they prefer to pve. pvp is for sieges, territory war and olympiad and... in the arena to them. Nevertheless, I agree with playing with friends and trying to be able to work better as a group (in pve/pvp); since that's how they do it in Korea...
They could make scenarios just like warhammer online where teams of players fight against each other for objectives; flags etc. Scenarios are easily accessible by pressing a button and commit to participate; no yelling for constant etc. Also an improved auction house would greatly improve the economy of the game and the nerves of the players that have to w8 for 2-3 min for their pc to load the sellers in each town. Just my 2 cents
l2 sucks cause its not updated every week and balanced like World of warcraft and other games based in America. If NA company really cared about l2 in NA they would get the full rights to the game to mod the servers as they wish. Instead of making more crappy games like aion and watch them fail. but yeah 6 years too late oh well deal with it. Hopefully North Korea will bomb south Korea and we will have no more l2!
Thats why Evoria loving PVP on his overpowered kamael left underdog clan and join top force clan after 1 month not beind hero ><
So for u was healthy when each server got 1 top (usually bot) clan that camping every epic RB and sell epics for $$$ ? No kidding Evo... but your post make my eyes bleed :)
The game should be about playing with your friends and trying to get better at PvP as a group. How u can say that after u betray your "friends" and join enemy clan ??? U wanna be better fighting vs ex. clan mates / weaker chars ?
Our gms havent yet stopped the use of auto pvp programs(the issue that made people wanting to play this game and find pvp,quit).
The new devs just just draw a game adding little/bigger pieces that dont stuck with game creating a mess instead of progress.Like no areas for partys with good xp,or even worst no good xp for 3 people (which leads everyone to try use box buffer) but you do need to have high supports and play as team for sieges and raids,no idea how you make that since you cant hunt and grow up as a team.
Honestly, i too liked some parts of it "from before" (like when you dropped stuff on death, that was really annoying but there was a real rush of adrenaline when you saw your HP bar going down, and then you had to run like hell to try and get your stuff back), but for the most part i really like it better now, with the Herbs and the Buffs and everything, i think they really listened to ppl who were complaining about the insane grind and they made the whole experience much more enjoyable and fun !
And the upcoming updates look really fun too, all of that has make me wanna play this game again, and i'm really enjoying my time here, otherwise i wouldn't stay ;)
You don't get it. The idea here is to allow more players to experience more of the game.
Most of the Epic PvP is being carried out by questionably-obtained high-level high-geared people and it's really not possible for the vast majority of the legit player base to PvP for the epics. So your choice realistically is to cheat and join them or you just don't do it.
The instances open up more of the game and rewards to more people, and that brings more people to the game for sieges and better gear to the non-cheaters at the sieges -- making them in theory more fun for the top clans, giving a little more challenge.
IMO, more of the Epics need to be instanced - as do some of the top grindspots like FoG and Tullys and MoS.
You will continue to find that it sucks as long as you (plus the other 93% server population) want this game to be westernised. This is a Korean game and they prefer to pve. pvp is for sieges, territory war and olympiad and... in the arena to them. Nevertheless, I agree with playing with friends and trying to be able to work better as a group (in pve/pvp); since that's how they do it in Korea...
Honestly, i too liked some parts of it "from before" (like when you dropped stuff on death, that was really annoying but there was a real rush of adrenaline when you saw your HP bar going down, and then you had to run like hell to try and get your stuff back), but for the most part i really like it better now, with the Herbs and the Buffs and everything, i think they really listened to ppl who were complaining about the insane grind and they made the whole experience much more enjoyable and fun !
And the upcoming updates look really fun too, all of that has make me wanna play this game again, and i'm really enjoying my time here, otherwise i wouldn't stay ;)
I think you're missing the point but if making a post in the suggestions forum will help, I will try it.
You don't get it. The idea here is to allow more players to experience more of the game.
Most of the Epic PvP is being carried out by questionably-obtained high-level high-geared people and it's really not possible for the vast majority of the legit player base to PvP for the epics. So your choice realistically is to cheat and join them or you just don't do it.
The instances open up more of the game and rewards to more people, and that brings more people to the game for sieges and better gear to the non-cheaters at the sieges -- making them in theory more fun for the top clans, giving a little more challenge.
IMO, more of the Epics need to be instanced - as do some of the top grindspots like FoG and Tullys and MoS.
I do get it. I said that in my post. I understand the reasoning behind instanced bosses, but that doesn't mean they are good in the long run. Eventually it will lead to the death of the game completely. And realistically, you don't have to cheat to become a part of epic PvP. I don't cheat and I PvP against the top clan on my server and win.
I just don't understand how you create a game that is based around natural conflicts, then put in ways to avoid them completely. It should be that if you want something nice, you should have to take it by force.
After thinking about this for a while, I have noticed fundamental flaws in the game which promotes a poor environment for the players. I'll like to start off with saying, good job to the GM's for clearing up the bots on server (at least on Chronos). This was definitely a step in the right direction.
However, other forms of cheating are still prevalent and in some situations, are almost necessary for mass PvP. This is due to the amount of lag their is in mass PvP.
But aside from cheating, the game is still seriously flawed. I think the game developers have lost sight in how to create realistic PvP conflicts. As a result, most people in game do not want to PvP. This is really bad considering that is what Lineage 2 is all about.
The instancing of epic bosses/tiat is probably the worst thing that could have been done. I understand the reason behind it, but this method does not promote a healthy server. In the past, if you wanted to become stronger in Lineage 2, you had to PvP to get to that level. If I started a new character right now, I could level up to 84/85 AND get the top gear (minus a baium ring) without ever having to PvP. The average player has little incentive to join a PvP clan at the moment.
Also, the fact that there are no GROUP xp spots that require 9 live players to survive. The best xp in the game can be done with 2 people boxing 8 characters. The Seed of Annihilation was a step in the right direction but still, the exp is not that great with a 9 man party so as a result people do not go there often. So odds are, if you go to SoA you will probably not run into an enemy clan (or any clan really). The exp issue is being addressed in High Five with less exp need to get to 85. And I HOPE, the new Dragon Valley fixes the leveling spot issue but only time will tell.
Bottom line is, aside from the actual PvP itself, there is no incentive to PvP. The game should be about playing with your friends and trying to get better at PvP as a group.
I marked the part I agree the most... this game need leveling spots where active support class are needed. It wuold be great to have a 'party of 9' spot where the exp would be similar to the one of the soloing spots and the support classes couldnt be boxed.
All what u do for "healthy" pvp server is betray your ***/FTA friends and join your Enemies - Bartz top force TD with Smagmata... how u can complain about "LACK OF PVP" or "FRIENDS" hypocrite?
All what u do for "healthy" pvp server is betray your ***/FTA friends and join your Enemies - Bartz top force TD with Smagmata... how u can complain about "LACK OF PVP" or "FRIENDS" hypocrite?
play4win... ?
I won't discuss it with you here because that is not why I made this thread. If you want to talk to me about why I did it then talk to me in-game or talk to me on l2blah. I'll be ignoring anymore posts you make here.
Lineage2 NA/EU died when every other person on the servers got themselves a radar app. End of story. That's what killed PVP, not instancing antharas and whatnot. Lineage 2 had survived farmers and bots, cause there was a cherry on top. PVP. Radar apps took that away and we went from 10 servers to 2 servers with barely enough population for Freya/Hi5 content.
PVP for top epic bosses is really easy for you to say if you are in the top clans that can lock it down. The funniest thing is top clans QQ about no pvp but then they don't attack other top clans. They want to roll smaller, less equiped clans. There is pvp everywhere if you want it. War all the top clans and see how much pvp you get. Most are bored lvl 85 with nothing to do, they will hunt and pvp you everyday. So stop the *****ing and either step up and war everyone or just play the game...
Evoria why u take my post as personal attack ??? I know your ingame moves (dont care about reason - it is your personal thing) and i am in shock! If u wanna pvp why join top force ??? if u wanna make friends for pvp/pve u need "trustable" ppl... are u one of them ? dont think so - that was my point - i dont wanna disscuss it anymore
Lineage2 NA/EU died when every other person on the servers got themselves a radar app. End of story. That's what killed PVP, not instancing antharas and whatnot. Lineage 2 had survived farmers and bots, cause there was a cherry on top. PVP. Radar apps took that away and we went from 10 servers to 2 servers with barely enough population for Freya/Hi5 content.
I fail to see how using a radar app made the server die.
PVP for top epic bosses is really easy for you to say if you are in the top clans that can lock it down. The funniest thing is top clans QQ about no pvp but then they don't attack other top clans. They want to roll smaller, less equiped clans. There is pvp everywhere if you want it. War all the top clans and see how much pvp you get. Most are bored lvl 85 with nothing to do, they will hunt and pvp you everyday. So stop the *****ing and either step up and war everyone or just play the game...
I agree that locking down epic bosses by any clan is bad. It's NC Soft's job to figure a way to prevent this. Maybe make 2 versions of the boss. There can be a blessed version of each boss which can only be PvP'd for and gives greater rewards, and a regular version which is instanced and gives lesser rewards. This is just an idea.
I don't think there are any top clans on Chronos that don't have war with the other top clans on the server... I don't agree that there is PvP everywhere. If I want to PvP on Chronos, I actually have to PM and enemy clan to come PvP me. How stupid is that?
My clan has war with 7-8 different clans on the server. The only one that wants to PvP is nova. If bregan or another clan is exping at Hellbound or something, not only will they party return to avoid PvP, but then they will never come back to try in fight for their spot with a better group. This is funny because the bregan/rdogs alliance has a castle that we cannot take because they have so many people in their clan. I don't understand how you have so many people to defend a castle on the weekends and then no people to defend an exp spot on the weekdays.
automated pvp = boring pvp = no incentive to pvp = emoquit
Ahh yes. I was confused because radar is just the ability to see where your enemies are. It doesn't do anything else outside of that. But yes, automated PvP (ie: auto pot spamming, auto targeting, etc) played a part in making people not want to PvP. However, I think it is a deeper issue than that.
Ahh yes. I was confused because radar is just the ability to see where your enemies are. It doesn't do anything else outside of that. But yes, automated PvP (ie: auto pot spamming, auto targeting, etc) played a part in making people not want to PvP. However, I think it is a deeper issue than that.
Radar is just a generic name for all the radar/aimbot apps for L2. Probably cause one of the first apps was actually called radar.\
Anyways, without meaning to sound condescending, you 're probably new to end game pvp. Couple of years ago Clan A (that shall remain nameless) had it's own aimbot software (way before Joe Average could buy it too) and Clan B had it's own (different) aimbot. C5 through interlude were basically chronicles of two aimbots fighting each other for server domination and no I am not kidding or exaggerating. Then when no aimbot could win came the mass petition chronicles yada yada yada. Teon was the first victim of this but by no means not the only victim. That's when most people started getting the hell out of L2.
IF original poster cannot understand how radar affected the game she/he should just quit now.
Ahh yes. I was confused because radar is just the ability to see where your enemies are. It doesn't do anything else outside of that. But yes, automated PvP (ie: auto pot spamming, auto targeting, etc) played a part in making people not want to PvP. However, I think it is a deeper issue than that.
The fact that you think merely being able to see the enemy is not a big deal is a huge part of the problem. When one group can and another cannot we are no longer playing the same game. Define pvp in lineage;try that instead.
to OP stop avoiding the feedback, read below topic as your clan is one of those to which it applies or if the denial is so strong try google zranger maybe the first hit gives you a clue.. as long as people use stuff like that PVP is dead period now feel free to emo quit, bye.
I dont think there is a complete lack of pvp,but most people don't do it because radar and stuff..which ruin the game.The game is very ill and theres still time to heal it.Anyway, if you want pure pvp kind of game,play a fps which needs more skill than the l2 pvp: level,gear and now the dirty cheating programs..
My clan has war with 7-8 different clans on the server. The only one that wants to PvP is nova. If bregan or another clan is exping at Hellbound or something, not only will they party return to avoid PvP, but then they will never come back to try in fight for their spot with a better group. This is funny because the bregan/rdogs alliance has a castle that we cannot take because they have so many people in their clan. I don't understand how you have so many people to defend a castle on the weekends and then no people to defend an exp spot on the weekdays.
if you want to pvp so badly, why instead of joining the strongest clan in the server just choose another one and offer them a fight?
it's easy for nova to critize others clans' abilities for pvp, after recruiting their top pvp players...
and that's because deep in your mind you dont want to be challenged, not in oly, not in epic bosses/daily pvp.
Want more pvp and more confrontation from enemy clans? cease to recruit every new hero/strong oly player who applies to your clan.
if you want to pvp so badly, why instead of joining the strongest clan in the server just choose another one and offer them a fight?
it's easy for nova to critize others clans' abilities for pvp, after recruiting their top pvp players...
and that's because deep in your mind you dont want to be challenged, not in oly, not in epic bosses/daily pvp.
Want more pvp and more confrontation from enemy clans? cease to recruit every new hero/strong oly player who applies to your clan.
For your information, I am not in Nova. I am in Enmity and I PvP nova every chance I get. The problem is that even Nova has stopped logging in for the most part. A lot of them just play Starcraft 2 all day because the server is so carebear. There is a reason why I went to Enmity and not Nova, and that is because I wanted PvP that was challenging. They certainly live up to the expectation but with the amount of people on the server, why are we the only ones really fighting each other?
The fact that you think merely being able to see the enemy is not a big deal is a huge part of the problem. When one group can and another cannot we are no longer playing the same game. Define pvp in lineage;try that instead.
It was never a problem for me on my server so I can't really speak from experience. Whenever enemies came for me, I knew because I put spies up to watch port spots, etc. This doesn't mean I think it is good though.
After thinking about this for a while, I have noticed fundamental flaws in the game which promotes a poor environment for the players. I'll like to start off with saying, good job to the GM's for clearing up the bots on server (at least on Chronos). This was definitely a step in the right direction.
However, other forms of cheating are still prevalent and in some situations, are almost necessary for mass PvP. This is due to the amount of lag their is in mass PvP.
But aside from cheating, the game is still seriously flawed. I think the game developers have lost sight in how to create realistic PvP conflicts. As a result, most people in game do not want to PvP. This is really bad considering that is what Lineage 2 is all about.
The instancing of epic bosses/tiat is probably the worst thing that could have been done. I understand the reason behind it, but this method does not promote a healthy server. In the past, if you wanted to become stronger in Lineage 2, you had to PvP to get to that level. If I started a new character right now, I could level up to 84/85 AND get the top gear (minus a baium ring) without ever having to PvP. The average player has little incentive to join a PvP clan at the moment.
Also, the fact that there are no GROUP xp spots that require 9 live players to survive. The best xp in the game can be done with 2 people boxing 8 characters. The Seed of Annihilation was a step in the right direction but still, the exp is not that great with a 9 man party so as a result people do not go there often. So odds are, if you go to SoA you will probably not run into an enemy clan (or any clan really). The exp issue is being addressed in High Five with less exp need to get to 85. And I HOPE, the new Dragon Valley fixes the leveling spot issue but only time will tell.
Bottom line is, aside from the actual PvP itself, there is no incentive to PvP. The game should be about playing with your friends and trying to get better at PvP as a group.
I am not in Nova.
Heres an idea, split off from your "top" clan with some others and start another clan to pvp your old clan and every clan out there. Once again your QQ is just because you are in a clan with numbers. Make another clan and war everyone, and see how much pvp you get. Stop hiding behind your top clan and maybe ppl, including your current clan, will pvp you. Make your own pvp, don't expect others to fight you. Go piss off some high lvls and they will come get you.
It should be that if you want something nice, you should have to take it by force.
Or if you want something nice, you have to use teamwork to achieve it. It's all the same. Suppose there was an Epic that was so hard you needed 1,000 toons to attack it working together and it would drop 1,000 nice things (let's say each person would get 10 crystals).
This would require tremendous diplomacy just to convince 1,000 toons to work together like that rather than degrade into combat along their differences.
IMO if you want to PvP, play a game that requires skill to PvP like a FPS. This game's PvP is so highly dependent on gear and levels that a novice with a tweaked toon will easily beat an expert even only slightly below them with average gear.
And maybe you're legit, I'm still going to be suspicious of the toons throwing the buffs on you or that earned your clan skills, etc. as having been legit. It's not an even playing field. The bot fixing is good, yes. Next step is stomping out all the bedwetters running automated pvp programs.
GM - port to siege field
Aoe Raise everyone's CP by 50,000 (or lower everyone to 1 CP)
Perma-ban anyone who uncontrollably spams CP pots in response
Heres an idea, split off from your "top" clan with some others and start another clan to pvp your old clan and every clan out there. Once again your QQ is just because you are in a clan with numbers. Make another clan and war everyone, and see how much pvp you get. Stop hiding behind your top clan and maybe ppl, including your current clan, will pvp you. Make your own pvp, don't expect others to fight you. Go piss off some high lvls and they will come get you.
Like I said, the bregan/rdogs alliance on my server are BIGGER than my alliance. And it's not by a little, they outnumber us like 2x - 3x. Yet, I almost never see them outside of town or wanting to defend their xp spots with the rest of their clan. Even Nova is bigger than us yet we only PvP them when we ask for a 9v9 or something like that. Our clan is not the TOP clan so you can't even say that. Don't expect others to fight me? If I have a 2-way war with an enemy clan, I expect them to fight me. Is that wrong?
Or if you want something nice, you have to use teamwork to achieve it. It's all the same. Suppose there was an Epic that was so hard you needed 1,000 toons to attack it working together and it would drop 1,000 nice things (let's say each person would get 10 crystals).
This would require tremendous diplomacy just to convince 1,000 toons to work together like that rather than degrade into combat along their differences.
IMO if you want to PvP, play a game that requires skill to PvP like a FPS. This game's PvP is so highly dependent on gear and levels that a novice with a tweaked toon will easily beat an expert even only slightly below them with average gear.
And maybe you're legit, I'm still going to be suspicious of the toons throwing the buffs on you or that earned your clan skills, etc. as having been legit. It's not an even playing field. The bot fixing is good, yes. Next step is stomping out all the bedwetters running automated pvp programs.
GM - port to siege field
Aoe Raise everyone's CP by 50,000 (or lower everyone to 1 CP)
Perma-ban anyone who uncontrollably spams CP pots in response
Easy.
Know what else requires teamwork? PvP. It's the most teamwork oriented thing in this game. Why not reward players who excel at it? The same type of diplomacy you're speaking of takes place with PvP also. If you can't beat an enemy by yourself, you make an alliance with another clan. Try convincing an entire clan to PvP for an epic boss with you then split the raid drops between 2 or even 3 clans.
And no, I'm not going to play another game. I started playing Lineage 2 because of the PvP. This is a PvP game. Bring the PvP back please.
Like I said, the bregan/rdogs alliance on my server are BIGGER than my alliance. And it's not by a little, they outnumber us like 2x - 3x. Yet, I almost never see them outside of town or wanting to defend their xp spots with the rest of their clan. Even Nova is bigger than us yet we only PvP them when we ask for a 9v9 or something like that. Our clan is not the TOP clan so you can't even say that. Don't expect others to fight me? If I have a 2-way war with an enemy clan, I expect them to fight me. Is that wrong?
Know what else requires teamwork? PvP. It's the most teamwork oriented thing in this game. Why not reward players who excel at it? The same type of diplomacy you're speaking of takes place with PvP also. If you can't beat an enemy by yourself, you make an alliance with another clan. Try convincing an entire clan to PvP for an epic boss with you then split the raid drops between 2 or even 3 clans.
And no, I'm not going to play another game. I started playing Lineage 2 because of the PvP. This is a PvP game. Bring the PvP back please.
Oh stop deluding yourself. This is not a 'pvp game'. It's simply a game that 'has' pvp in it. A subtle difference that makes things wildly different.
This game is whatever NC Soft Korea wants it to be, and what they want it to be is whatever their player-base (as in the korean players, not the overseas extra revenue idiots) are interested in. What are these guys interested in? PvE... Even olympiad doesn't much matter to them despite NC Softs best efforts.
So understand, no matter how many stupid threads people make trying to stress the 'decline of PvP' to the masses, your opinion simply doesn't matter to the people who can affect an actual change.
Most people that are at the high-end have accepted the game for what it is and enjoy the meagre pvp that exists and had been satisfied... Until like others have tried to point out, PvP programs came and murdered even that shard of pvp enjoyment 'en mass'.
It sounded cool and was a funny joke to draw parallels and liken fighting 'robot' players with battling Skynet in the old days, but nobody is laughing any more...
I can't understand you. These are comments, ideas what you write to here just garbage!
About 1 year ago was so much cries for Raid Boss items. You all cried for it, because only the top clans can get it and without them you can't PVP.
Now they instanced the bigger part of Epic Bosses and now you cry for this.
They had to do these changes, because without these only the most hardcore farmers and the mostly overbotted clans can control just the game.
Only the cheater programs in PVP what can destroy the game's PVP part only these thing! The game has little million another parts how you can make PVPs.
Oh stop deluding yourself. This is not a 'pvp game'. It's simply a game that 'has' pvp in it. A subtle difference that makes things wildly different.
This game is whatever NC Soft Korea wants it to be, and what they want it to be is whatever their player-base (as in the korean players, not the overseas extra revenue idiots) are interested in. What are these guys interested in? PvE... Even olympiad doesn't much matter to them despite NC Softs best efforts.
So understand, no matter how many stupid threads people make trying to stress the 'decline of PvP' to the masses, your opinion simply doesn't matter to the people who can affect an actual change.
Most people that are at the high-end have accepted the game for what it is and enjoy the meagre pvp that exists and had been satisfied... Until like others have tried to point out, PvP programs came and murdered even that shard of pvp enjoyment 'en mass'.
It sounded cool and was a funny joke to draw parallels and liken fighting 'robot' players with battling Skynet in the old days, but nobody is laughing any more...
Merry Christmas and happy new year, btw!
That doesn't really make sense to me. This isn't a PvP game it just has PvP in it? If that were the case then PvP would only be instanced. When you have the ability to go outside of town and kill anyone you want, it is a PvP game. You can't just create an open PvP world then set it up so people do not even want to PvP.
I can't understand you. These are comments, ideas what you write to here just garbage!
About 1 year ago was so much cries for Raid Boss items. You all cried for it, because only the top clans can get it and without them you can't PVP.
Now they instanced the bigger part of Epic Bosses and now you cry for this.
They had to do these changes, because without these only the most hardcore farmers and the mostly overbotted clans can control just the game.
Only the cheater programs in PVP what can destroy the game's PVP part only these thing! The game has little million another parts how you can make PVPs.
Like I said, I don't think the should get rid of the instances completely. The difference between having a boss jewel and not having a boss jewel was such a huge gap. I don't think a gap like that should exist. But if the gap wasn't that wide then it can be tolerated. Make one frintezza normal stats, then the blessed frintezza which you need to PvP for is only SLIGHTLY better.
That doesn't really make sense to me. This isn't a PvP game it just has PvP in it? If that were the case then PvP would only be instanced. When you have the ability to go outside of town and kill anyone you want, it is a PvP game. You can't just create an open PvP world then set it up so people do not even want to PvP.
Yet that's exactly what they've gone and done... Making sense to us isn't important. Aion was exactly the same deal in terms of adding PvP but not really supporting it. So much so that it was virtually discouraged...
Just enjoy the game for what it is or play something else.
Guys as the development team told with the Goddess of Destruction expansion they want take to the game mostly PVP stuffs, the High Five will make more interested the players in PVP. These updates as the Freya too only help for the players get items and level to the Goddess of Destruction.
The leader of the development team told, they want give more high focus to PVP at firstly for the Castle Sieges.
Notice how only the pvpr's are crying in this thread ?
Im a pve'r & I think the game is fine as is. & since you guys would say the same thing to me, I will say it to you 1st.
STOP THE CRYING OR GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME. :)
So it won't bother you until it affects how you play the game directly? If you think outside the box for a minute you will see that PvPer's leaving the game indirectly affects the PvE'rs.
Yet that's exactly what they've gone and done... Making sense to us isn't important. Aion was exactly the same deal in terms of adding PvP but not really supporting it. So much so that it was virtually discouraged...
Just enjoy the game for what it is or play something else.
It makes me very sad to see them do this in more than one game. It was a HUGE mistake for them not to include PvE and PvP servers. And I can't just give up and play another game. I've invested too much time into this game to just see it die like this.
Guys as the development team told with the Goddess of Destruction expansion they want take to the game mostly PVP stuffs, the High Five will make more interested the players in PVP. These updates as the Freya too only help for the players get items and level to the Goddess of Destruction.
The leader of the development team told, they want give more high focus to PVP at firstly for the Castle Sieges.
Really? Then this is really good news for me. However, the problem now is that a lot of my friends are quitting the game, or thinking about quitting right NOW. So when Goddess of Destruction hits they may not even play it. It's up to NC to keep all the players they can until the next expansions. LF more info about Goddess of Destruction.
Increadible, i play on a pve clan and have no problems in find pvp. Theres always some idiot trying to take my spot, some griefer that have nothing to do on higher lvls and come to my pve spot to botter me, botted alt clans attacking my fortress.
I have a suggestion for you, drop tags and go hunting all top players alone. I bet they will not PR from you if they can win all the time.
So it won't bother you until it affects how you play the game directly? If you think outside the box for a minute you will see that PvPer's leaving the game indirectly affects the PvE'rs.
pvp'rs never have affected how I play the game. If they want to kill me, thats fine, they can just go red & get bored. lol
& if they leave the game, great, just means more open places for me to hunt :)
So let me get this straight - The ones that call themselves pvpers are now crying that they can’t find PvP...
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHH!!!! THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY!
So, for years, while they monopolized all the epic bosses and good exp spots, it was all fine. High and mighty on their throne, they were the kings, when someone dared to say 'look man, I also pay for this, so I also deserve to get something' they would answer 'OHLOLOLOL QQ MOAH'. As a result many people left the game - you have to understand that most are not masochists, if they can see that they have almost 0 chance to surpass the top dogs (because of programs or not), they leave. So this lack of people that want to PvP are a direct result of you, the pvp freaks thinking you own this game. GZ! You just shot yourselves in the foot!
Now that there are instances that give the opportunity for underdogs to rise the top dogs cry...I ask myself why, because if they do rise, it means that they will have more people to PvP with, instead of a couple of ragtags that get 2 shoted everytime they are on sight.
What is wrong people? The castles are still monopolized, the TW flags are still monopolized, the exp spots are still monopolized, c’mon, you still own this game until the end, when everyone except you leaves because your heads are buried too far on your behinds. Wake up and smell the coffee! The everyday player could care less about you leaving.
People that play this game are not obliged to like PvP (after all, they do have to lvl up 79 times before they are deemed 'ready' for it, so the only thing they SHOULD like is PvE) and are not obliged to entertain you. They are not court jesters. You want PvP? Get your behinds out of town and kill each other off instead of spending the day flaming in hero shout. Or do like another player posted here – split the top clans in minor ones and fight each other…insta PvP fun for everyone who wants it, see?
Increadible, i play on a pve clan and have no problems in find pvp. Theres always some idiot trying to take my spot, some griefer that have nothing to do on higher lvls and come to my pve spot to botter me, botted alt clans attacking my fortress.
I have a suggestion for you, drop tags and go hunting all top players alone. I bet they will not PR from you if they can win all the time.
Yea that's fine for solo pvp, but that's where it ends. If you want to PvP with a group or your clan, the scenarios are almost non-existent. Why should I have to detag to PvP with my friends? That totally defeats the purpose of having team-play.
pvp'rs never have affected how I play the game. If they want to kill me, thats fine, they can just go red & get bored. lol
& if they leave the game, great, just means more open places for me to hunt :)
I said indirectly. The PvPer's are the ones who stimulate the economy the most.
So, for years, while they monopolized all the epic bosses and good exp spots, it was all fine. High and mighty on their throne, they were the kings, when someone dared to say 'look man, I also pay for this, so I also deserve to get something' they would answer 'OHLOLOLOL QQ MOAH'. As a result many people left the game [...] So this lack of people that want to PvP are a direct result of you, the pvp freaks thinking you own this game.
This is so exactly right it has to become a Sticky here on the boards :)
+1.000.000 :p
So let me get this straight - The ones that call themselves pvpers are now crying that they can’t find PvP...
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHH!!!! THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY!
So, for years, while they monopolized all the epic bosses and good exp spots, it was all fine. High and mighty on their throne, they were the kings, when someone dared to say 'look man, I also pay for this, so I also deserve to get something' they would answer 'OHLOLOLOL QQ MOAH'. As a result many people left the game - you have to understand that most are not masochists, if they can see that they have almost 0 chance to surpass the top dogs (because of programs or not), they leave. So this lack of people that want to PvP are a direct result of you, the pvp freaks thinking you own this game. GZ! You just shot yourselves in the foot!
Now that there are instances that give the opportunity for underdogs to rise the top dogs cry...I ask myself why, because if they do rise, it means that they will have more people to PvP with, instead of a couple of ragtags that get 2 shoted everytime they are on sight.
What is wrong people? The castles are still monopolized, the TW flags are still monopolized, the exp stops are still monopolized, c’mon, you still own this game until the end, when everyone except you leaves because your heads are buried too far on your behinds. Wake up and smell the coffee! The everyday player could care less about you leaving.
People that play this game are not obliged to like PvP (after all, they do have to lvl up 79 times before they are deemed 'ready' for it, so the only thing they SHOULD like is PvE) and are not obliged to entertain you. They are not court jesters. You want PvP? Get your behinds out of town and kill each other off instead of spending the day flaming in hero shout. Or do like another player posted here – split the top clans in minor ones and fight each other…insta PvP fun for everyone who wants it, see?
Ok first of all, I wasn't in a clan that monopolized raid bosses. I was actually in a clan that was fighting for those monopolized raid bosses. I recently switched sides when the servers merged for more PvP. I agree that the clans who did this shot themselves in the foot and discouraged others. But honestly, it's not our job to police the game and make it balanced. That's NCsoft's job. If players can exploit or take advantage of the game, they will. End of story.
The problem with Lineage 2 "PvP", at it's essence at it's core is a certain breed of player.
But before I go into "That Breed", Lineage 2 pvp problems partly stem from the instancing of the Raid bosses. That change was not so good. I suggest add more Raid bosses worth doing and remove instancing.
Now about that certain "Breed of Player."
Most people refer to clan that do whatever it takes to win at all cost "Play to Win" clans.
At the birth of Lineage 2, you have like most new mmo's a mix of players of all different skill levels scattered throughout countless clans. Everyone begins the leveling. To some, leveling is an enjoyable social experience that they share with there clan mates, friends or family.
To others, leveling is a speed bump to end game content.
To the certain "Breed of Player", the "Play to Win" player, Leveling is a race. The object
of this race is to achieve Maximum level at break neck speeds by any means necessary. Way before the wonderful gift of vitality, leveling was a slow and monotonous process. The "Play to Win" (from now on I will refer to them as P2W's) use bot programs to automate pve. While there enemies exp'd they were going and at night when there enemies slept, like the energizer bunny they kept going and going and goin.
By the time the average normal player hit max level, the P2W players were finishing off their third sub class.
As chronicles past, leveling became longer and harder. The L2P continued to pull away from the pack. The P2W's always seem to find each other. They recognize their breed and often join forces. Then you get the birth of "The Super Clans." They are the one's that usually control the server and the server resources. They can hold down any area at will and lock people out of the best leveling area's to further impede their leveling.
The P2W's would crush their opponents with skills never seen before. Usually because their nearest competition was outleveled on average by 5 levels. 5 levels at lvl 20 is nothing. But at lvl 80 and beyond, it is an insane advantage. Slowly the Super clans started to level legitly or semi legit and then called themselves pro pvping legit super clans or for example UR/TD/Nova/Cata etc etc etc. You get the point.
As L2 evolved so did the use of 3rd party programs. Since Vitality was introduced, the "noobs/legit" players began to close the level gap. The Super Clans begin to lose battles they never would lose in the past. The super clans cry about vitality. How it is unfair that the game is easy to level now and all their hard work and pvp advantage was for not.
So, what was the P2W player to do. The legit players are now kicking their *** in PvP and people are realizing the player X is not so Pro after all with his +22 OE's stun or (insert OE'd skill).
Basically, the P2W or Cheater, now uses programs to aid them in PvP. They can lock onto a target like an inter continental ballistic missile and unload massive dps while simultaneously spamming every pot known to the Lineage 2 player.
Now the P2W is pro again.
The GM's need to kill these programs in PvP now. Just google Lineage 2 and pvp software, scripts, programs or what ever and you will find some sort of program to suit your needs.
There are people using these programs and challenging people to 9 v 9's. They fraps there lop sided victories and proclaim their L2 greatness. When you watch these video's. You see what looks like a bot train attacking one person (auto assisting) with BD and SwS singing like clockwork , their healer spamming heals, auto rezzing , while they actual player is just worried about keeping their toon within range of the pvp group, sipping red bull and watching hente or Star Gate or w/e sci fi they are into.
YOu have people blatantly using these programs in Olympiad now. It is ridiculous.
So now the choices are:
a. Join the top clan
b. use a program to compete in pvp
c. quit game
You have ppl complaining of anti backstab , you have HIDE daggers that are now not so hidden, you have auto buffs, auto logs, auto augs, auto this and auto that.
I am waiting for the program people to start complaining that their program does not work. I will be happy, for only a moment though. Because it will turn out, that someone is using a program to jam their program.
Whatever happened to just playing the game and having fun, Manually?
My friends listen to me. So on this and on the next week will celebration week and after will start the normal work weeks at everywhere.
So under this time, let's we try make a normal list (without QQ, negative and provoking comments) what changes we would like to in the PVP/Instance category. Example don't say same useless comments that the Prophet let's get Shield Stun skill, or the Ghost Hunter lets get Song of Hunter skill (this changes can't completable request as you all know)
But can be completable request example to be an Open Instanced and an Instanced zone for the Epic Bosses example with different drop rates. Or the request for the bann the players who use cheater programs in PVP.
I think the NCwest can do these things if we the community really want it and we tell for them normal ideas of course.
I consider leveling as a speed bump but I don't cheat to win. But the "Play to Win" mentality of players definitely needs to be kept in check.
It's seriously like the GM's don't even try to fix the problem. I'm curious as to how much evidence you actually need to ban someone on a program. How hard is it to tell if someone is using a PvP program or not.
I would like an answer from a GM or moderator. I don't understand how the players of the game can see it so clearly but you cannot. What is the issue?
Ok first of all, I wasn't in a clan that monopolized raid bosses. I was actually in a clan that was fighting for those monopolized raid bosses. I recently switched sides when the servers merged for more PvP. I agree that the clans who did this shot themselves in the foot and discouraged others. But honestly, it's not our job to police the game and make it balanced. That's NCsoft's job. If players can exploit or take advantage of the game, they will. End of story.
I wasn't refering to you in particular but to the players that I see every day crying in hero/shout/general chat that there is no PvP and that instances were the worst thing ever. Instances were made so that everyone had at least a chance to get to the boss (killing it is another matter). This helped the economy by lowering prices and making everything more accessible (thus lowering the 'need' of some people to go to RMTs).
I do agree with you 100% with the fact that auto program users should be banned....as fast as possible. Every day that they walk around entitling themselves PvP gods is another day that normal players, players that could bring some good to this game, get tired and quit. This new policy of giving a warning first then 7 day ban...bla bla is something made to try to not ban so many people but at the same time keeping cheating under control It wont work. Program users have became too attached. Most of them are probably not even able to PvP without them, and as such, they won't stop untill they are banned permanently.
You also said that it is the PvPers that stimulate the economy. Could you explain that? I do not see the connection, as for me the ones that hunt monsters (and therefore get drops - both full and mats to craft) are the ones that get the economy moving. But I may be missing something.
I wasn't refering to you in particular but to the players that I see every day crying in hero/shout/general chat that there is no PvP and that instances were the worst thing ever. Instances were made so that everyone had at least a chance to get to the boss (killing it is another matter). This helped the economy by lowering prices and making everything more accessible (thus lowering the 'need' of some people to go to RMTs).
I do agree with you 100% with the fact that auto program users should be banned....as fast as possible. Every day that they walk around entitling themselves PvP gods is another day that normal players, players that could bring some good to this game, get tired and quit. This new policy of giving a warning first then 7 day ban...bla bla is something made to try to not ban so many people but at the same time keeping cheating under control It wont work. Program users have became too attached. Most of them are probably not even able to PvP without them, and as such, they won't stop untill they are banned permanently.
You also said that it is the PvPers that stimulate the economy. Could you explain that? I do not see the connection, as for me the ones that hunt monsters (and therefore get drops - both full and mats to craft) are the ones that get the economy moving. But I may be missing something.
Yeah, I don't think they should completely take instances out of the game. I just think they should have left something for the people that play this game to PvP, ya know?
PvP programs are bad. I think everyone on the forums can agree with this.
And the reason I said PvPers stimulate the economy is because they are the ones who PvE the hardest and most efficiently. For example, the people who AoE tullies and green spot in Hellbound make a ridiculous amount of divine stones which they sell on the market. You can make like 300+ divine stones in a day aoe'ing tullies on just one floor. And for the most part, these are the same people who like to PvP.
Yeah, I don't think they should completely take instances out of the game. I just think they should have left something for the people that play this game to PvP, ya know?
PvP programs are bad. I think everyone on the forums can agree with this.
And the reason I said PvPers stimulate the economy is because they are the ones who PvE the hardest and most efficiently. For example, the people who AoE tullies and green spot in Hellbound make a ridiculous amount of divine stones which they sell on the market. You can make like 300+ divine stones in a day aoe'ing tullies on just one floor. And for the most part, these are the same people who like to PvP.
About instances - yes, of course, leave something to be fought over, no problem with that.
For the most part - yes, probably, but yet they are PvEing to get those things, if they PvP on the side or not that is with them. The economy is only stimulated when players engage in PvE activities then. The only thing PvP does is make certain items (boss jewels and CP pots for example) more wanted. When put it that way, yes, PvPers (as the ones that do nothing more than PvP) can influence the economy.
Threads like these are pointless on the official boards as you have no peer representation.
The official boards are a wasteland filled with sycophants and washouts. No one will understand where you are coming from, all they will do whine their practiced ritual of lamentation and condemnation.
I suggest you discuss this on the external sites like guru or goha and use he plaync support site to communicate your concerns and direct them to the discussion.
Oh yes, blah is well known for its thoughtful discussions consisting of well reasoned arguments.
But on a serious note, MMOs make horrible PVP games because they instantly devolve into RMT contests. If you seriously want PvP, try a FPS or RTS game. Or play chess on yahoo. Purchasing a level capped max geared toon and then wondering why people don't line up to be decapitated by you is a little bit dense, don't you think?
For the most part - yes, probably, but yet they are PvEing to get those things, if they PvP on the side or not that is with them. The economy is only stimulated when players engage in PvE activities then. The only thing PvP does is make certain items (boss jewels and CP pots for example) more wanted.
Threads like these are pointless on the official boards as you have no peer representation.
The official boards are a wasteland filled with sycophants and washouts. No one will understand where you are coming from, all they will do whine their practiced ritual of lamentation and condemnation.
I suggest you discuss this on the external sites like guru or goha and use he plaync support site to communicate your concerns and direct them to the discussion.
Sounds like Gandalf but tastes like Kim Jong Il. You know. He's the little man who is revered as a god within the confines of his tiny kingdom and ridiculed as a fool by the rest of the world.
I could be wrong but didnt think the OP wanted to join the kids bragging about their progs and transferring whole clans with no out of pocket expense, crying about bans, and throwing around general trashtalk.
To the OP, I recall some stuff from elliebelly where future updates will increase penalties for pvp outside of clan wars and making it harder to wash off karma. With this and all the instancing, it seems NCsoft wants pvp but with tightening parameters so people can still kill each other while others can still go about picking daisies and killing mobs.
Actually that sounds like they don't want you to kill people full stop outside of siege fields.
Fact is there have been no where near the amount of effort to expand PvP as there has been for PvE. The fact that the grind indirectly stops you from fighting other people since it's 90% of your play time says they "do not want" all by itself. It's a shame but the Koreans aren't interested...
Not much fun in pvp anyway. Im usually dead before the attacker loads on my screan during TW or siege. The rest of the time wether I win or loose it doesnt matter since the pvp lasts less that 2-3 seconds.
PvP would be more fun if it lasted longer than what it does now, until then it's just something to do when tired of grinding. Unless of course you have no more xp to gain.
Not much fun in pvp anyway. Im usually dead before the attacker loads on my screan during TW or siege. The rest of the time wether I win or loose it doesnt matter since the pvp lasts less that 2-3 seconds.
PvP would be more fun if it lasted longer than what it does now, until then it's just something to do when tired of grinding. Unless of course you have no more xp to gain.
PvP lasts incredibly long against two even groups. TW/Siege is way too laggy though. Sace, is there anything being done, or that can be done to fix this?
I marked the part I agree the most... this game need leveling spots where active support class are needed. It wuold be great to have a 'party of 9' spot where the exp would be similar to the one of the soloing spots and the support classes couldnt be boxed.
If support classes cant be boxed they will be botted. Master scripters will be able to think of almost all possible scenarios there.
Most support classes are botted even if "main" dagger is not. Bots recruit now support in many places, from HV to these boards. If you look at their recruiting threads they recruit support, mainly, even low level will do... Because theirs have been banned, mostly, or it is not "cool" to play PP.
I play support with only one exception, and that was made to level my main when parties collapsed back in c4-c5. But since then I adapted myself and I can have full party at least 50% of 24 hours a day has. I had to work hard for it and build a clan that is party oriented, but I managed it, so all ppl inside benefit. That is the way to go IMO, not HV shouts about bishop and ee...
M
If support classes cant be boxed they will be botted.
For the love of God, can you actually make one post without the word "bot " in it ???
Can't you talk about something else from time to time ? O.O
Besides, i really think the GMs made a tremendous work trying to get rid of bots, i've really seen a difference with the situation we had a couple of years ago !
Of course they can't get rid of every single one of them but this is really getting better, keep up the good work !
For the love of God, can you actually make one post without the word "bot " in it ???
Can't you talk about something else from time to time ? O.O
Besides, i really think the GMs made a tremendous work trying to get rid of bots, i've really seen a difference with the situation we had a couple of years ago !
Of course they can't get rid of every single one of them but this is really getting better, keep up the good work !
I always said the situation is much better, but comparing to other places where bots cant even log in, then you will see there is a lot more work to do and frankly it is too late, the game is dead killed by cheaters and cant be revived IMO. Everybody knows this is botland and customers that want to play legit wont come here, even buggy privates or corrupted russian servers are better. Only hope legits have now is that there will be less and less players and will be possible for them to access higher content without having to compromise on anything. After last merger that will probably happen next year, there will be at most one more year till we reach the number of players former Franz server had, when legits did manage some castles, sometimes even without bot help. I could be wrong, I was before when I didnt think they will ever do anything about bots, but I guess the koreans found out about how things are going on here so they put some pressure on them.
That being said, there is a HUGE improvement regarding botting, but we still have a big bot majority (because those that "turned legit" are still cheaters, no matter what others think, once you use the advantage you got by cheating, you are still a cheater) there are every day new toons afk, this means they still think botting pays up, and this proves there is still much work to do.
PvP lasts incredibly long against two even groups. TW/Siege is way too laggy though. Sace, is there anything being done, or that can be done to fix this?
Yes, autocp makes PvP last longer, while OOG clients help a lot in sieges. There can be something done, prevent 3rd party clients from logging, so we wont have that insane lag. Nobody wonders why koreans have less lag at 3-4 x the players in a siege ? Why their servers dont crash in TW or sieges ? Do they have all latest computers ? Do they have better servers ? Or fewer bots ? That is the question...
M
If support classes cant be boxed they will be botted. Master scripters will be able to think of almost all possible scenarios there.
Most support classes are botted even if "main" dagger is not. Bots recruit now support in many places, from HV to these boards. If you look at their recruiting threads they recruit support, mainly, even low level will do... Because theirs have been banned, mostly, or it is not "cool" to play PP.
I play support with only one exception, and that was made to level my main when parties collapsed back in c4-c5. But since then I adapted myself and I can have full party at least 50% of 24 hours a day has. I had to work hard for it and build a clan that is party oriented, but I managed it, so all ppl inside benefit. That is the way to go IMO, not HV shouts about bishop and ee...
M
The point of this new leveling spot is that it will be highly contested. Even if one was to try and bot there, they would probably get killed. And if they were untagged, they would probably get reported and banned. It's not even an issue anymore, at least on Chronos.
The point of this new leveling spot is that it will be highly contested. Even if one was to try and bot there, they would probably get killed. And if they were untagged, they would probably get reported and banned. It's not even an issue anymore, at least on Chronos.
I am playing every day in highly contested places, such as FoG. In some days i get PKed 20 times+, most of the time I dont. The place is full of untagged/tagged in special alt clans for AFK without wars. Ocasionally there are ppl with wars there, and there is PvP, or rather executions, 10 ppl geared for pvp come to kill some subs.
In order to be good, PvP must be agreed upon. The kind of PvP that happens in exp places is hardly good for both the attacked and attackers. They lose time for nothing. Once the place "cleared", the original ocupants will come on mains to clear it again from the subs of conquerors, and more meaningless executions are performed.
That isnt PvP IMO, however, the big epic raids should not be instanced, we have Kamas, fort dungeons, castle dungeons, that should be enough for exp, top bots should have their turf on top raids to PvP for hours, while I know legits wont have a chance in that case, still instancing top raids is a step too far.
M
I am playing every day in highly contested places, such as FoG. In some days i get PKed 20 times+,
M
That is because you refuse to fight for your spot... and well.. your forum posts... you fail at trying to be "true" to your status.. but most clans enjoy PK'ing you for the LOL factor.
That is because you refuse to fight for your spot... and well.. your forum posts... you fail at trying to be "true" to your status.. but most clans enjoy PK'ing you for the LOL factor.
And they should if that is what makes them happy, there are regular bots that can fight other bots and failed bots that can only kill legits to increase their self-esteem. There will always be a better scripter and top bots will rule the ones that cant script right, so their only chance is to "PvP" legits or subs of the top botters, even if they dont have a chance to fight back.
For us that is irrelevant, bots are high level invincible mobs that sometimes are aggro, part of the game, after 5 years we know how to deal with them.
However, the point of this thread was that L2 needs more PvP. I agree with it, I just dont agree that forcing ppl to fight for spots can give good PvP.
It cant, as I said, one bot group is exping their subs in an open area, as usual, one-two drivers, rest afk on PvE programs, then their "enemies" or random clan comes on mains and kills everyone, they setup their trains and then again the original owners come on mains to clear again, etc. That is not PvP, at least not enjoyable by any party, generates high annoyance and doesnt give any satisfaction. What satisfaction can be that you killed some AFK subs ? Only sick ppl can get satisfaction in that.
No, PvP must be agreed upon in order to be good, PvP prepared ppl, with their best scripts, evenly matched, fighting for a fort, a castle, some wards, contestable clan halls, etc. That will be good fight, rather than simple executions.
We need more stuff like TW, but better thought in order to prevent abuse such as TW farming.
Also, I agree that top Epic raids should not be instanced, that had the potential to generate and it did in the past, great PvP, clans throw at each other all they can and truly the strongest wins.
M
However, the point of this thread was that L2 needs more PvP. I agree with it, I just dont agree that forcing ppl to fight for spots can give good PvP.
It cant, as I said, one bot group is exping their subs in an open area, as usual, one-two drivers, rest afk on PvE programs, then their "enemies" or random clan comes on mains and kills everyone, they setup their trains and then again the original owners come on mains to clear again, etc. That is not PvP, at least not enjoyable by any party, generates high annoyance and doesnt give any satisfaction. What satisfaction can be that you killed some AFK subs ? Only sick ppl can get satisfaction in that.
No, PvP must be agreed upon in order to be good, PvP prepared ppl, with their best scripts, evenly matched, fighting for a fort, a castle, some wards, contestable clan halls, etc. That will be good fight, rather than simple executions.
We need more stuff like TW, but better thought in order to prevent abuse such as TW farming.
Also, I agree that top Epic raids should not be instanced, that had the potential to generate and it did in the past, great PvP, clans throw at each other all they can and truly the strongest wins.
M
The spot wouldn't FORCE people to PvP. The people that want to fight for it, can. If people don't want to fight, then you always have to expect the possibility of being PK'd. This goes for any xp spot in the game.
The spot wouldn't FORCE people to PvP. The people that want to fight for it, can. If people don't want to fight, then you always have to expect the possibility of being PK'd. This goes for any xp spot in the game.
Of course, but it does force you to PvP if you want to keep it, at least the regular players think that way. Since if we PvP we give more satisfaction to the bots even if we win, we choose to take PK and come again till time for exp is done. In the future killing red will be a very real possibility, right now they lose karma too fast.
M
...I just dont agree that forcing ppl to fight for spots can give good PvP.
It cant, as I said, one bot group is exping their subs in an open area, as usual, one-two drivers, rest afk on PvE programs, then their "enemies" or random clan comes on mains and kills everyone, they setup their trains and then again the original owners come on mains to clear again, etc. That is not PvP, at least not enjoyable by any party, generates high annoyance and doesnt give any satisfaction...
M
I think you need to factor out bots and cheaters completely when you talk in this thread. We are just talking about PvP, not bots. So any scenario that comes up should be focused on everyone not being on a program of some sort.
When I was on bartz in Vestige, we used to fight over spots in HB all the time. Evicting an enemy clan or being evicted by an enemy clan was hands-down, the best PvP experiences I've had in this game. Win or loss, it was always fun. I just want to see more scenario's like this appear in game for the more competitive clans.
don't ever come to Naia then as there's no such thing as prog (ranger) free pvp here which is why those playing on that server kind of disagree with your point of view..
yes pvp can be fun a lot the way you describe, it's just not how reality is as some players/clans will do anything to win and right now parties with ranger >>>>> those without..
GM's refuse to fix it so it's getting worse and worse, why you think we have end game players making posts begging NA NC Soft to watch Tw/Sieges to make it some what fun & balanced ?
Evoria started the thread with good intentions, but the game is far too old and does not provide the players, or game environment to provide a healthy PvP player base.
The only way I see making this game more popular, fun and more pvp filled at this stage would be by:
1. Making the game free to play.
2. NCSoft promoting the game.
3. Detecting all 3rd party applications; which would include the running application and anything that looks impossible server side. Blizzard's Warden, Valve's Anti-Cheat and many games with PunkBuster are EXTREMELY cheat free. GameGuard is complete ****.
4. Creating a system for Lineage 2 where players feel rewarded for PvP and happy to participate, so much so that the penalty for losing is practically ignored.
Guys as the development team told with the Goddess of Destruction expansion they want take to the game mostly PVP stuffs, the High Five will make more interested the players in PVP. These updates as the Freya too only help for the players get items and level to the Goddess of Destruction.
The leader of the development team told, they want give more high focus to PVP at firstly for the Castle Sieges.
Great, so in 7 months after we get High Five, we get to wait another 8 months for the expansion that will make players focus more on PvP. Sounds like a solid plan, let me know what percentage of the player base still plays when 15+ months of waiting for an update goes live.
I agree with some points, like the one that the server should not allow 3rd party clients to connect, but I dont agree the game is too old. Heck, chess is much older and still has some appeal. L2 is way more involving than chess, wins over other MMORPGs hands down, this is a non-issue proved by the popularity of the game in other places, whether F2P (Russia) or more expensive than here (Korea).
We do need more advertising, that is for sure, a more crowded server will automatically have more PvP and make the existence of PvE clans almost impossible, but that will go back to levels where we can play too, because ppl leave when they see that:
1. Are forced to PvP;
2. Have no chance to win, even if they cheat, some ppl will always be better at scripting.
So I would think at a different aproach:
1. Lower the cost, but dont make it totally free, this will keep out many kids that would otherwise ruin the experience of many present customers OR make some free servers while keeping the present ones. Both could enjoy microtransactions, just the payd version will have more vita events, more GM policing and priority in solving the tickets, etc.
2. Promote the game. Not in TV or other expensive media, but in youtube, in gamer sites, in gaming events, etc.
3. Block the 3rd party clients from logging in. Instead of punishing post factum, better prevent the cheaters from getting in the system in the first place. As we seen some other places, it can be done, we need just the will to do it.
If these 3 points will be put in practice, we could have a chance to witness the second birth of L2 in NA.
M
Evoria started the thread with good intentions, but the game is far too old and does not provide the players, or game environment to provide a healthy PvP player base.
The only way I see making this game more popular, fun and more pvp filled at this stage would be by:
1. Making the game free to play.
2. NCSoft promoting the game.
3. Detecting all 3rd party applications; which would include the running application and anything that looks impossible server side. Blizzard's Warden, Valve's Anti-Cheat and many games with PunkBuster are EXTREMELY cheat free. GameGuard is complete ****.
4. Creating a system for Lineage 2 where players feel rewarded for PvP and happy to participate, so much so that the penalty for losing is practically ignored.
gotta agree with luke how come u arent leader yet of enmity ? seriously it would been some competition for nova atleast a carebear leader is never good for anything except when it comes to silvermoon/100percent
evoria started the thread with good intentions, but the game is far too old and does not provide the players, or game environment to provide a healthy pvp player base.
The only way i see making this game more popular, fun and more pvp filled at this stage would be by:
1. Making the game free to play.
2. Ncsoft promoting the game.
3. Detecting all 3rd party applications; which would include the running application and anything that looks impossible server side. Blizzard's warden, valve's anti-cheat and many games with punkbuster are extremely cheat free. Gameguard is complete ****.
4. Creating a system for lineage 2 where players feel rewarded for pvp and happy to participate, so much so that the penalty for losing is practically ignored.
Evoria started the thread with good intentions, but the game is far too old and does not provide the players, or game environment to provide a healthy PvP player base.
The only way I see making this game more popular, fun and more pvp filled at this stage would be by:
1. Making the game free to play.
2. NCSoft promoting the game.
3. Detecting all 3rd party applications; which would include the running application and anything that looks impossible server side. Blizzard's Warden, Valve's Anti-Cheat and many games with PunkBuster are EXTREMELY cheat free. GameGuard is complete ****.
4. Creating a system for Lineage 2 where players feel rewarded for PvP and happy to participate, so much so that the penalty for losing is practically ignored.
1. No, ******ed. More ppl is not better ppl. Just make the product worth the price. $15 is not a lot of money. If you can't afford it then evaluate your life, a video game is the least of your worries.
2. yes
3.double yes
4.kinda agree but unless #3 happens, it won't happen.
This all a fun talk but nothing we say here matters. They are not going to advertise a game with two servers that have been losing players steadily. They might get rid a bots but I feel they don't want to, bots are accounts that pay money. It kinda depends on how many people leave due to bots. My guess is that players accounts who bot make plenty more money then those who leave due to botting. So, we might as well name this thread... "The What If" thread.
I think you need to factor out bots and cheaters completely when you talk in this thread. We are just talking about PvP, not bots. So any scenario that comes up should be focused on everyone not being on a program of some sort.
When I was on bartz in Vestige, we used to fight over spots in HB all the time. Evicting an enemy clan or being evicted by an enemy clan was hands-down, the best PvP experiences I've had in this game. Win or loss, it was always fun. I just want to see more scenario's like this appear in game for the more competitive clans.
Worst post I've read.
This is like communism... only works in "theory" and even then it's 50/50 at best.
PvP is never going to be ideal. Unfortunately, western gamers are more currupt as human beings that their estern counterparts. The basic train of thought here is that everything goes, as long as you win and get to talk trash. Western gamers will do whatever it takes to "win", even if it means paying extra money, or using 3rd party software to win for them. Unfortunately, this works really well... all a person has to do is pay a little extra every month for a subscirption to some 3rd party and they can have a lvl 85 toon with max gear in clan full of purchased characters with purchased gear.
So an even playing feild will never exist. Sick as it is... though some skills are genuinely imbalanced, and couls use a tweak here or there... the game is quite well balanced over all... it's the habits of the players that braek it, and make it seem so broken.
If you're made that your class is loosing so often in PvP, it's no fault of the class, its the fault of the people buying adena / characters / 2rd party etc... they are directly responsible.
NCwest has done a fine job eliminating many of the bots in the game. The more established bots (Heroes / Top CLs / etc) have been given a pardon for some reason I won't discuss, but that's not really even that damaging.
Lineage II has gone from being 90% bot 10% live players, to the complete opposite. It is now 90% live players and 10% bot... it's just unfortunate that the 10% that bots are the richest, most powerful toons that control everything in the game. And they will continue to dominate because there is no influx of new characters to wash out and rebuild the market.
If NCwest want the problem adressed, they need to set up an advertising campaign (that we were promised was going to happen almost a full year ago) and do their best to renew interst in the game.
This should start with customer relations. Being more direct and forthright with their players, and not worrying so much about disclosing information.
Lineage II has gone from being 90% bot 10% live players, to the complete opposite. It is now 90% live players and 10% bot...
Perhaps if we take a picture at some time, you can have that distribution, however, in my view a bot is someone who cheated at some point and still uses that advantage now. I have very strong doubts that 90% of the ppl are legit, i think that while before 90% were afk and 10 % were live, now is indeed about the opposite, but the 90% that were AFK before now are maybe live, but have not been banned, they still have huge advantage based on level (but that is going down fast), they still have the bought gear AND using 3rd party tools for PvP and PvE, even tho they dont stay AFK anymore.
So, it is still 90% cheaters and 10 % legits, you cant just "become legit" at 85, full epics, +30 skills, etc. Ppl who say that their clannies are legit because they dont bot anymore or because have not been banned yet are just making me laugh :P
M
Taking BSoEs out of the game and adding some open pvp ( as in seige or arena fields ) hunting zones to the map wouldnt be bad either. ( areas where you could get better xp, drops, badges, fame, or the like )
Getting rid of the third party cheats is the big one though. I mean who wants to play a game that you have absolutely zero chance of winning or for that matter losing. Isnt that what makes playing a competitive game truely exciting and fun ....the uncertainty of the outcome?
Seems like high 5 addresses some balance and party things and the next big update looks like a complete revamp of the game, so most of this may be moot at that point.
This is like communism... only works in "theory" and even then it's 50/50 at best.
PvP is never going to be ideal. Unfortunately, western gamers are more currupt as human beings that their estern counterparts. The basic train of thought here is that everything goes, as long as you win and get to talk trash. Western gamers will do whatever it takes to "win", even if it means paying extra money, or using 3rd party software to win for them. Unfortunately, this works really well... all a person has to do is pay a little extra every month for a subscirption to some 3rd party and they can have a lvl 85 toon with max gear in clan full of purchased characters with purchased gear.
So an even playing feild will never exist. Sick as it is... though some skills are genuinely imbalanced, and couls use a tweak here or there... the game is quite well balanced over all... it's the habits of the players that braek it, and make it seem so broken.
If you're made that your class is loosing so often in PvP, it's no fault of the class, its the fault of the people buying adena / characters / 2rd party etc... they are directly responsible.
My post is like communism? I don't even understand that. I was simply telling MaoMao to try and stay on topic. Even though cheating affects the amount of people that want to PvP, it is not the only factor. Even cheaters barely want to PvP atm.
And like I said before, it's not the player's job to police the game. It's NCsoft's job. So people can point fingers all they want but at the end of the day, NCsoft are the only ones with the power to fix the game.
My post is like communism? I don't even understand that. I was simply telly MaoMao to try and stay on topic. Even though cheating affects the amount of people that want to PvP, it is not the only factor. Even cheaters barely want to PvP atm.
And like I said before, it's not the player's job to police the game. It's NCsoft's job. So people can point fingers all they want but at the end of the day, NCsoft are the only ones with the power to fix the game.
My posts are on topic. Cheating affects PvP in a huge manner. Not only by opt-outs by legits (heck, some still like to entertain cheaters to this day) but also by avoidance from the rest of the population, via auto-BSoE, PR, logouts, etc. Even in sieges there are trains that auto-BSoE when ppl forget to turn that off...
This tells us that even cheaters avoid PvP and there are reasons for this. One very important is that, in order to be good, PvP MUST be agreed upon. Random "clearing" of subs in SV, FoG, etc by top geared mains 85/80/80/80 with best scripts on for PvP, etc wont give any satisfaction to either the executioners and victims, except maybe to 12 yo. Same applies to clearing of legits that opted out of PvP. That is NOT PvP, it will never be, perhaps top spots where you need 83 or more, those made for AFK with non-social, non-aggro mobs, but, again, killing some AFK ppl will still not give any satisfaction, perhaps if some leave auto-rez on AND auto-BSoE off, then will be some LOL factor and CRP farming involved, but that is still NOT PvP and is unlikely to give any satisfaction on the long term.
I see 3 things that break PvP right now:
1. Cheating;
2. Low population levels (at least on Naia);
3. The over-reliance on "spot" PvP and little incentives for ppl to go PvP in arenas for some prizes.
We do have forts, castle sieges, contestable clan halls (BTW, some are free, so what does this tell us about "active" clans that were crying they didnt get CH after merger ?), cleft and the like, yet ppl dont go there to PvP, but to farm, like poor legits. They bragg about their "activity" in top raids abd how much money they make, they own castles on alt clans, some didnt even bother to set manor, yet come 10 at a time to farm some poor legit clan's fort...
There are many imbalances in this game, but the root cause is cheating IMO, as soon as that will be eliminated (not 100%, that is impossible, but at least 90%) there will be a lot more competition, ppl will HAVE to make adena to gear up, there will be a thriving market, manor, PvP in sieges, etc.
Koreans have a good market, ballanced, meaningful PvP, but they dont run around looking for it and PKing random ppl in the hope to get wars, PvP is not an end, but the means to advance your char, compete for resources, etc.
Here top bots are fully geared, full level, full skills, there is nothing left to do, except PvP and that became an end, the endgame "content" as they call it, the ability to execute everyone, everywhere, no wonder this isnt so exciting as it looked like when they were buying their toons or botting them up to max so they want now more of it, and especially, more interesting and balanced PvP.
The Question is, with whom ?
M
I have to agree... And koreans sometimes make me angry! PVE in l2 is rlly bad! If u play other online games u ll see that! But the pvp system is the best i ever played!! ( ok, i just played some games like wow, lotro, silk road, etc...) And now u have to question ur self about "why koreans like to play the bad side of this game and forget the best one?"
rlly... they piss me off!:mad:
I agree that locking down epic bosses by any clan is bad. It's NC Soft's job to figure a way to prevent this.
And they did, it is now instanced so everyone has a shot at doing them. PVP is there if you want it but not if you bandwagon to higher power. I decided to go out and pvp today. I got over 50 pvp's within the 1st hour. Didn't need a party for that. PVP is there if you want it. But if all the 85/80/80/80 hero's with super gear go into 1 clan to expect pvp from people 83 or lower, then yes you can expect people not to flag back. If you can't figure out why then your just stupid.
I for one will never be a part of the top clan. When I hit max level and get geared up I will always fight for the underdogs to help keep the server balanced. Because a 1sided server is what really makes Lineage 2 suck.
I have to agree... And koreans sometimes make me angry! PVE in l2 is rlly bad! If u play other online games u ll see that! But the pvp system is the best i ever played!! ( ok, i just played some games like wow, lotro, silk road, etc...) And now u have to question ur self about "why koreans like to play the bad side of this game and forget the best one?"
rlly... they piss me off!:mad:
There are even better pvp games like warhammer online; i'm not a pvp fun but pvp there rocked; scenarios, sieges, objectives, awesome team pvp everything. What really rocks about l2 is the diverse skill and class system. Also beautiful chars, armors and weapons.
There is nothing special about pvp in this game. It take alot less skill in this game to pvp than some of the other games. As long as you have the adena and lvls you can beat anyone in this game. Skill means little unless your even with your opponent in all aspects (over enchanted everything/elements so on). If thats the case then skill does help but that is rarley the case and most pvp end within seconds. Unless of course you are the one with over enchanted everything/maxed elements and levels. Then I imagine pvp is quite boring.
As someone in a PVE clan, I can understand why there is a definitive lack of PVP from most of the players on the server I am on: Power Discrepency.
This one is a simple one. Those who really seek PVP typically tend to clearly outpower those who do not. Many of those individuals outpower, because they have botted and/or ebayed. Others because they have been powerleveled by friends/clannies. A few because they are legit veterans who have played and grinded for years.
When I say outpower, I mean a combination of levels, gear and skill enchants.
But it is never enjoyable to constantly lose against others against whom you have no chance of defeating. To the typical player who plays in a legitimate fashion and with average gear and with a limited amount of time to play per week, this becomes a sour experience. Remember that the typical player is not max level, with 3 subclasses either.
Let me give you an example with 2 characters of the same class (with a few assumptions):
Player A - Level 80 @ 0.00% - standard gear for his level
Player B - Level 84 @ 0.00% - typical (somewhat awesome) PVP gear for his level
Now lets assume the following for this scenario:
Both players can only grind for 1% per day.
Both player PVP each other (and only each other) other 10 times on those days.
Player A is part of a PVE clan with no clan hall (because most PVE clans do not have one)
Player B is part of a PVP clan with a decent hall
No blessed ressurection scrolls, or anyone with the ressurection skill to raise you from the dead.
Neither player ever runs from the fight
Neither player ever dies due to mobs
Both players have typical buffs on them
This would be the expected outcome after 100 days of those encounters:
Player A is still level 80 and has plenty to go before leveling
Player B is either now level 85 or very close to it.
So typically, PVP is harmful, unproductive and wasteful to people who are not as strong as the people who want PVP. Now, take my previous example, and apply it to clan scale and you have a lot of unhappy people.
Now for a real example:
Me and some of my clannies were in FOG trying to level a few weeks ago. The party ranged members from 80 to low 70s (A grade). Comes 1 full party of a PVP clan that was bored, all in S80 and S84 gear and without provocation or anything, they attack us while we have a full room of mobs. Most in my party got wipped out really quick and even though I was doing fairly okay against their permared dagger, I could not realistically fight them all off. Now I ask to the people who say there is not enough PVP: How is this supposed to be fun for me or the others that were with me??? The people who did the ganking surely had loads of laughs and fun, but us? Literally hours wasted for some of us.
I have to agree... And koreans sometimes make me angry! PVE in l2 is rlly bad! If u play other online games u ll see that! But the pvp system is the best i ever played!! ( ok, i just played some games like wow, lotro, silk road, etc...) And now u have to question ur self about "why koreans like to play the bad side of this game and forget the best one?"
rlly... they piss me off!:mad:
Maybe because this is not a pvp game, it has some pvp , but mainly its a pve game for hardcore grinders.
A real pvp game has max level that's easey to obtain almost no levelling and gear pretty easey to get outside of epics from raids.
The PVP intended in this game by the original developpers was for sieges only, they already added Oly, MRT,Fantasy isle ring, Kratei...
What more u want ? pvp all day long ? wrong game friend!
This is not a pretty version of counter strike.
Game has never had sufficient PvP content but few years ago players was not complaining lack of PvP. Why?
Well I'll tell you why. Few years ago majority of players were still leveling by their own. Every update included few TOP hunting spots meaning players were funneled to those spots. To be in one you had to PvP for it.
However as majority of players chose to bot first to 85 and PvP later they were too dumb to understand that by choosing the shortcut they were skipping PvP too. After a while TOP hunting spots were empty and those who botted up started complaining about the lack of PvP as they were botting with hope to PvP but all turned other way around.
You are now 85 with highly OE'd skills, your enemies too. You can't meet them because they are not in the spot were they suppose to be if they would have chosen not to bot.
Not to mention Chronos case were most active and high level players joined one side and now crying that there's nothing to PvP with. You left your friends behind, you know their average level, skill oe level, gear level and you have brains to complain why they don't pvp back? Well your stupidity never ceases to amaze me.
The people who did the ganking surely had loads of laughs and fun, but us? Literally hours wasted for some of us.
You are looking at this from a wrong perspective and you are also wrong about the hours "wasted".
As a veteran legit and leader of legit clans, I can tell you the only thing that matters is the perspective. If you think PK wastes you exp, then you are in the wrong game.
I will give you 2 (same as you, FoG) examples.
One happened in the morning, at a regularly "light" hour. We managed to find place at the bugs and were faming our stones while leveling some. Then, top bot clan in the server came and asked us to leave because they will kill more efficiently there. As usuall, we ignored the bots so they PK us after training failed. We have bishops aplenty in clan so we rezzed with bishops, rebuffed and started to pole again like nothig happened. They PKed again and tried to make sure we dont get the bishops back to rez, but we managed a few times more. They stopped PK, but we started to pick their drops so they had to PK again, and we continued to rez 90%, in spite of their best efforts to prevent our summoners around to bring up more bishops. They were so preocupied with this that they trained themselves to death while red and dropped. We were kind enough not to comment on that, you dont hit the fallen enemy, you know...
Another example was last night. Still in FoG but in a less sought place because it was top hour and the good ones were taken. Our summoner logged, waited some 5-10 min see if spots are free, they were, so we came there. After a few pulls some bots appeared, now from the other side of the top botting clans and told us that, intheir magnanimity are leaving us 2 rooms. We were only polling those 2 rooms anyway, so everything was OK, even tho they wer enot there before, however later changed their mind and trained us. While training was fairly successful, because we didnt expect it and some ppl died, after this we were prepared and when trainer came, it died in mobs. That was infuriating them and they came back to plain old PK and threats. Of course, we ignored it, explained politely we were there first and we dont give up the place, no matter how much they try to train and PK, and we continued to pole there for some hours, not only recovering all .10 or so exp lost on level 82, but making .50 more while the lower levels did great.
In both those situations, we didnt lose anything, in the second, even we left because we were bored, no more threats and vigilance to avoid training made the exp boring, so bots do contribute to our fun, but we do have years of experience in this field, at start it was frustrating for us too.
M
Maybe because this is not a pvp game, it has some pvp , but mainly its a pve game for hardcore grinders.
Just have to justify something there. Not all Korean L2 players are hardcore grinders. NCKR targeted the game for both hardcore and casual players over there. However, they are more social (friendly) and work as a team (ie as long as u can contribute something, you can be a part of the team); which makes it a more pleasant and encouraging game environment for both hardcore and casual players. That's what a MMORPG should be like imo, not people 2+ boxing and be their own party. (even I'm guilty of that... since no one wants to party my PP... QQ lol)
Just have to justify something there. Not all Korean L2 players are hardcore grinders. NCKR targeted the game for both hardcore and casual players over there. However, they are more social (friendly) and work as a team (ie as long as u can contribute something, you can be a part of the team); which makes it a more pleasant and encouraging game environment for both hardcore and casual players. That's what a MMORPG should be like imo, not people 2+ boxing and be their own party. (even I'm guilty of that... since no one wants to party my PP... QQ lol)
I am not sure this comes from Koreans being much different from us. I think it has a different cause and that is the very different cheating levels over there.
While here everyone can have any char at any level and fully geared in a few months, if not immediately, Koreans cant afford this luxury, therefore they have to go out with less-than-optimal parties, either in PvP or PvE, as such, almost any class will fit, as long as the party is a bit better than without. There is place for PP, for SE, for archers, etc.
In NA ppl have available any class so they make the perfect party for the objective they have, so here ppl do better both in PvP and PvE, even tho we have much less online than Koreans, we are still able to put up better parties for any objective, but we have less variability and things are only decided (particularly in PvP) by the way ppl setup the programs, some do better, some cry the others cheat, so it ends up in tears for both parties.
M
I am not sure this comes from Koreans being much different from us. I think it has a different cause and that is the very different cheating levels over there.
While here everyone can have any char at any level and fully geared in a few months, if not immediately, Koreans cant afford this luxury, therefore they have to go out with less-than-optimal parties, either in PvP or PvE, as such, almost any class will fit, as long as the party is a bit better than without. There is place for PP, for SE, for archers, etc.
In NA ppl have available any class so they make the perfect party for the objective they have, so here ppl do better both in PvP and PvE, even tho we have much less online than Koreans, we are still able to put up better parties for any objective, but we have less variability and things are only decided (particularly in PvP) by the way ppl setup the programs, some do better, some cry the others cheat, so it ends up in tears for both parties.
M
lol... please learn more about cultural differences before making any assumptions ^^ They have very different culture from the western society. I know it because I'm from an Asian background myself (if you haven't notice yet), with RL friends from Korea and Japan. Also, it would be much easier to gear people when everyone works with each other rather than against each other :)
For your information, I am not in Nova. I am in Enmity and I PvP nova every chance I get. The problem is that even Nova has stopped logging in for the most part. A lot of them just play Starcraft 2 all day because the server is so carebear. There is a reason why I went to Enmity and not Nova, and that is because I wanted PvP that was challenging. They certainly live up to the expectation but with the amount of people on the server, why are we the only ones really fighting each other?
Enmity/Immortals want PVP that is challenging? Enmity is the biggest joke clan on the server. From all their QQ emo b.s. prior to merge up until now. Challenging pvp to enmity, as I saw personally yesterday, was to kill an IC Set equipped dwarf with an S80+ toon in moirai, probably with full epics, and I know for a fact their bleed was +15 because they flagged on me with it- and I'm 78. Oh yea, epic challenging pvp for S80+ toons in the biggest joke clan on the server, going around hitting S graders.. I have an idea, Enmity power levels me to S83, gives me a full set of epics, I already have my S80 armor, so all I'd need other than that is a SA'd set of fists, and I'll pvp you wherever, whenever.
If you think enmity is after challenging pvp, you need to have your head examined. And it's not necessarily that it was such a big deal, it's kind of the norm Enmity acting like 3 year olds, but its the fact that you come in here spouting that ****. Reality is, I had heard Nova was bigger dweebs than Enmity prior to merge, but funny thing, I personally havent seen Nova out PK'ing S graders for "epic or challenging pvp". Just enmity.
Me and some of my clannies were in FOG trying to level a few weeks ago. The party ranged members from 80 to low 70s (A grade). Comes 1 full party of a PVP clan that was bored, all in S80 and S84 gear and without provocation or anything, they attack us while we have a full room of mobs. Most in my party got wipped out really quick and even though I was doing fairly okay against their permared dagger, I could not realistically fight them all off. Now I ask to the people who say there is not enough PVP: How is this supposed to be fun for me or the others that were with me??? The people who did the ganking surely had loads of laughs and fun, but us? Literally hours wasted for some of us.
I agree. +1
You are looking at this from a wrong perspective and you are also wrong about the hours "wasted".
As a veteran legit and leader of legit clans, I can tell you the only thing that matters is the perspective. If you think PK wastes you exp, then you are in the wrong game.
I will give you 2 (same as you, FoG) examples.
One happened in the morning, at a regularly "light" hour. We managed to find place at the bugs and were faming our stones while leveling some. Then, top bot clan in the server came and asked us to leave because they will kill more efficiently there. As usuall, we ignored the bots so they PK us after training failed. We have bishops aplenty in clan so we rezzed with bishops, rebuffed and started to pole again like nothig happened. They PKed again and tried to make sure we dont get the bishops back to rez, but we managed a few times more. They stopped PK, but we started to pick their drops so they had to PK again, and we continued to rez 90%, in spite of their best efforts to prevent our summoners around to bring up more bishops. They were so preocupied with this that they trained themselves to death while red and dropped. We were kind enough not to comment on that, you dont hit the fallen enemy, you know...
Another example was last night. Still in FoG but in a less sought place because it was top hour and the good ones were taken. Our summoner logged, waited some 5-10 min see if spots are free, they were, so we came there. After a few pulls some bots appeared, now from the other side of the top botting clans and told us that, intheir magnanimity are leaving us 2 rooms. We were only polling those 2 rooms anyway, so everything was OK, even tho they wer enot there before, however later changed their mind and trained us. While training was fairly successful, because we didnt expect it and some ppl died, after this we were prepared and when trainer came, it died in mobs. That was infuriating them and they came back to plain old PK and threats. Of course, we ignored it, explained politely we were there first and we dont give up the place, no matter how much they try to train and PK, and we continued to pole there for some hours, not only recovering all .10 or so exp lost on level 82, but making .50 more while the lower levels did great.
In both those situations, we didnt lose anything, in the second, even we left because we were bored, no more threats and vigilance to avoid training made the exp boring, so bots do contribute to our fun, but we do have years of experience in this field, at start it was frustrating for us too.
M
Yeah... I mean I know you don't want to fight back since they are the 'top bot clan' (trademark). Whatever it's your business, but there's no fun to be had playing like that every day lol.
and we continued to pole there for some hours, not only recovering all .10 or so exp lost on level 82, but making .50 more while the lower levels did great.
So wait, let me get this straight, you make .60% in several hours of poling FOG? You're a bigger fail than I originally thought, Mr "Leader of Legits" (I ******* lol'd at that btw).
So let me get this straight - The ones that call themselves pvpers are now crying that they can’t find PvP...
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHH!!!! THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY!
So, for years, while they monopolized all the epic bosses and good exp spots, it was all fine. High and mighty on their throne, they were the kings, when someone dared to say 'look man, I also pay for this, so I also deserve to get something' they would answer 'OHLOLOLOL QQ MOAH'. As a result many people left the game - you have to understand that most are not masochists, if they can see that they have almost 0 chance to surpass the top dogs (because of programs or not), they leave. So this lack of people that want to PvP are a direct result of you, the pvp freaks thinking you own this game. GZ! You just shot yourselves in the foot!
Now that there are instances that give the opportunity for underdogs to rise the top dogs cry...I ask myself why, because if they do rise, it means that they will have more people to PvP with, instead of a couple of ragtags that get 2 shoted everytime they are on sight.
What is wrong people? The castles are still monopolized, the TW flags are still monopolized, the exp spots are still monopolized, c’mon, you still own this game until the end, when everyone except you leaves because your heads are buried too far on your behinds. Wake up and smell the coffee! The everyday player could care less about you leaving.
People that play this game are not obliged to like PvP (after all, they do have to lvl up 79 times before they are deemed 'ready' for it, so the only thing they SHOULD like is PvE) and are not obliged to entertain you. They are not court jesters. You want PvP? Get your behinds out of town and kill each other off instead of spending the day flaming in hero shout. Or do like another player posted here – split the top clans in minor ones and fight each other…insta PvP fun for everyone who wants it, see?
And dont forget what happens when a clan or clans do try and fight back.....we all hear the infamous ******ZERG********* excuse.
I have always laughed at that one and the tools that claim they lost because of it.
So wait, let me get this straight, you make .60% in several hours of poling FOG? You're a bigger fail than I originally thought, Mr "Leader of Legits" (I ******* lol'd at that btw).
Yep. Vita 0, poler level 82, mobs blue, several hours=2 only 2 rooms available. Poler is not looking for exp there, just help lower level clannies, i know some ppl cant understand that, they have their perfect train and poler only levels more bishops/ees/bds/swss etc for it's own train, they have full vit, full nevit, etc and tully gives them better exp anyway, so no wonder you cant imagine how things go in legit clans and lowbie areas :) Unfortunatelly, I dont think that, even with level 99, you will still get the point of the game, many years of skipping the content made some ppl unable to understand it.
@mcbuff I do understand cultural difference, being myself minority over here, however, the main difference is not in way of playing, it is in cheating, and THAT leads to different playstyle in principal.
M
I agree with Evoria regarding PvP part but it is much more than that which went wrong on the road. Many classes are simply lost its meaning when NCsoft tried to balance and correct the problems that arose. 20-minute buffer and a bad party matcningssystem, for example, the reason we eventually got buffpets. Penalty / reward system was unbalanced and had players that would rather refrain from PvP than to participate. Unfortunately, I think Lineage2 have such deep scars from long ago that it's hard to go back to how the game was meant to be played.
I think that accepted PvP should carry no penalty at all. I mean, if you fight back, dont lose exp, or in case of mutual wars. I am not saying that in those conditions we will accept to entertain bots, far from it, but I am convinced that PvP must be accepted in order to be good. Executions are unlikely to bring fun to either victims or executioners and while "clearing" exp spots will continue to happen the old way, there will be much more accepted PvP. CRP should be the prize, fame and stuff, of course, greatly enhanced and taking into account the levels of participants. Like when lower level wins against higher level, the transfer will be bigger and smaller in the other case.
But, who cares, we all know it aint gonna happen, at least for now.
M