As someone suggested, lets look back to 2010 and see what this year meant for l2...
1. The population continued to decrease. Causes for that are well known, wont detail again, however, it looks like after the merger things got a little better at least for the servers which were almost empty. If we consider also that many ppl that quit had to to because were banned for cheating and moved to more appropriate games for their age, then this isnt a bad move on the condition that cheaters will continue to be banned so legit ppl will return in larger numbers than they are doing now.
2. We had still some updates. True, with big delays, but there are no plans to stop the updates for now, this is a good sign. Also, after the original efforts to kill L2 and promote AION, things changed after AION failed.
3. The biggest plus I see is the opening up of the NCNA team to criticism and even adopting some ideas we offered. One year ago nobody would have hoped for that, but the handling of CH distribution, the fact they didnt close and ban the ppl that posted on the missing badges/manor threads, in spite of some really harsh and non-constructive criticism there, the change of mind from "we dont care about your badges, suck it" to "we are looking into it and try to find a solution" those were really encouraging signs, as well as some real improvements in handling of tickets, the opening for dialog from the CM (thanks Sace !), these are arelly nice and needed changes, long overdue.
I only wish these changes will happen faster so we reach normality, the degree of professionalism this battered community deserves after bearing so many bad things for so long.
While 2010 was a bad year in terms of numbers, it could have layed the foundations for at least the stop of the decay, if not for a future growth. There are many things to be done, we are not out of the woods, but it is possible to hope now, if you really want to.
M
Chronos is only 1k more ppl now than old Bartz ... Naia is much less than Teon
Imo Diablo III kills NA l2... so one year more...
Last time i checked, it wasnt so, Naia still had more ppl than Teon, but this is to be expected because many AFK ppl dont AFK anymore, since merger many ppl got suspended for GG violations and most of them dont bot now at same levels.
This translates in less online, but it doesnt affect gameplay, only more exp places are available which were previously fully botted.
Let me give you one example to make myself more clear:
I have a server where like 50% of the chars which are payd at some time are AFK farming 24/7 and about 30% are doing it just half of the day, the rest only now and then. If the number of total accounts is 10000 and the legits play normally about 4 hours a day including shops, then in a server where ppl can AFK in impunity, there will be like 7-8 K online in average, in a server where AFK is not allowed and only 10-20% of the active accounts are doing it, then only around 4 K ppl will be online in the same time, as such about half than in a server with AFK allowed. You see that the number of subscribers didnt change, but online dropped dramatically, however the game wont be affected negatively, on the contrary, because:
1. AFK ppl dont PvP, dont take forts or raid, they only take exp spots that are freed for the live ppl when they are too afraid to AFK anymore;
2. Live ppl benefit from less crowded exp places and better market prices for their mats and other stuff, also the server "loses" some lags and performance increases.
One thing where you can see the real activity in a server is forts. Teon usually had before merger some (1-2) forts free, after the merger, not only that they are rarely free, usually after a siege when clans holding previously crested some castles, but they are changing hands after real PvP, not just taken from NPCs. Also each fort is farmed almost at max, about 4 sieges a day, around the clock.
So, no, putting fear in the AFK bots is not going to be any disaster, this is work in progress and we are likely to see more pop drop, but that will affect game play for live ppl in a positive way, will just reduce lag and improve experience. When they will finish this operation I expect PvP scripters will be the next target so we may have some playable sieges in the future. At least this is how I would do it in order to save the game in NA.
M
It's interesting to see people attempt to predict when games will "die" like they have some kind of degree in Electronic Entertainment Economy.
You've got to have a pretty inflated opinion of yourself to just write the game of and say "Oh, Diablo III will kill it, this is the game's last year".
I have to admit, I did laugh.
Diablo is a joke. Blizzard is a joke. Their games are such **** that no ones plays them for more than a month or two. That's how they make money on WoW, it's how they made money on SCII, and it's how they'll get money out of Diablo III. They build up tons of hype, all the emo teen kids spend their allowence on the latest blizzard game, play it all night while they're not in school, and then get bored with it because like all blizzard games, they have no lasting value.
Now, as for the future of Lineage II: It's impossible to say what the future hold because it the freakin' future and we aren't there yet, os we'll just have to wait and see.
Honestly, if the rumors about the 4th class being a single archetype class for all the actuall classes, it would probably kill the interest in the western market, but short of that, L2 really hasn't made a dramatic enough mistep to kill the market here.
I can tell you now, from a business standpoint, it would not be in NCsoft's best interest to kill Lineage II of. Ever. making new MMOs is a losing venture. it's much more profitable to mantain a current one, so that users do not need to stress of being split
Looking forward at merge EU/NA server in 2012... :)
Actually, if they dont move faster in clearing the game here it may happen in 2011. The clock is ticking, remaining ppl dont have much patience left, they want a fair game sooner rather than later, hard, but hard for all. These are the real l2 players. Lose them and the game will close.
M
It's interesting to see people attempt to predict when games will "die" like they have some kind of degree in Electronic Entertainment Economy.
You've got to have a pretty inflated opinion of yourself to just write the game of and say "Oh, Diablo III will kill it, this is the game's last year".
I have to admit, I did laugh.
Diablo is a joke. Blizzard is a joke. Their games are such **** that no ones plays them for more than a month or two. That's how they make money on WoW, it's how they made money on SCII, and it's how they'll get money out of Diablo III. They build up tons of hype, all the emo teen kids spend their allowence on the latest blizzard game, play it all night while they're not in school, and then get bored with it because like all blizzard games, they have no lasting value.
Now, as for the future of Lineage II: It's impossible to say what the future hold because it the freakin' future and we aren't there yet, os we'll just have to wait and see.
Honestly, if the rumors about the 4th class being a single archetype class for all the actuall classes, it would probably kill the interest in the western market, but short of that, L2 really hasn't made a dramatic enough mistep to kill the market here.
I can tell you now, from a business standpoint, it would not be in NCsoft's best interest to kill Lineage II of. Ever. making new MMOs is a losing venture. it's much more profitable to mantain a current one, so that users do not need to stress of being split
Go compare Wow active subscriptions to L2 active subscriptions and maybe get a clue. If necessary buy one.
Of course lineage 2 is dead. It's a freaking mmo that can't manage to get more than 3000 connections per server on the last 2 remaining servers. Dead doesn't mean they will switch the servers off. So long as development/licensing is free since Koreans are paying for it, sure, they 'll keep the servers up even if active accounts shrivel down to 1000. Dead means it's got no growth potential, and that's undeniable, unless some insane person goes and buys the distribution rights from ncsoft and then hacks the game to make it more euro/us mentality friendly, kinda sorta like the Russians did. But that's a quite big maybe. And sadly, inspite of what emo forum fanbois will tell you, a big part of playing an MMO is actually the massive component which sadly is gone for good.
Go compare Wow active subscriptions to L2 active subscriptions and maybe get a clue. If necessary buy one.
Of course lineage 2 is dead. It's a freaking mmo that can't manage to get more than 3000 connections per server on the last 2 remaining servers. Dead doesn't mean they will switch the servers off. So long as development/licensing is free since Koreans are paying for it, sure, they 'll keep the servers up even if active accounts shrivel down to 1000. Dead means it's got no growth potential, and that's undeniable, unless some insane person goes and buys the distribution rights from ncsoft and then hacks the game to make it more euro/us mentality friendly, kinda sorta like the Russians did. But that's a quite big maybe. And sadly, inspite of what emo forum fanbois will tell you, a big part of playing an MMO is actually the massive component which sadly is gone for good.
Russians did not make it eu friendly, they made a deal for their privates to get off updates. What they did was stopping bots because they dont fit privates model. In privates ppl pay for exp, weapons, enchants, etc, if they can bot them, GMs lose, while here GMs used to imagine the more bots the more money and this put the game in the state it is today. IF they woke up and will continue and speed up the clean up process, it isnt too late, it remains to be seen if this is not another attempt they will stop half way like before so many times.
M
Go compare Wow active subscriptions to L2 active subscriptions and maybe get a clue. If necessary buy one.
Of course lineage 2 is dead. It's a freaking mmo that can't manage to get more than 3000 connections per server on the last 2 remaining servers. Dead doesn't mean they will switch the servers off. So long as development/licensing is free since Koreans are paying for it, sure, they 'll keep the servers up even if active accounts shrivel down to 1000. Dead means it's got no growth potential, and that's undeniable, unless some insane person goes and buys the distribution rights from ncsoft and then hacks the game to make it more euro/us mentality friendly, kinda sorta like the Russians did. But that's a quite big maybe. And sadly, inspite of what emo forum fanbois will tell you, a big part of playing an MMO is actually the massive component which sadly is gone for good.
Your ignorance is astounding.
If when (or more likely at this point, when) they switch the servers off in EU/NA, L2 will still be alive and kicking in Korea, where it matters. If the changes you are proposing will make the game better for you, save yourself the dissapointment and go play WoW.
Grimaldus.. here is not Korea.... 8k ppl / 2 servers..... days of glory for u??? maybe 1k ppl server can be fun ????
month or two ?? did u ever play diablo II or u was 8 years old when they relased it ?
Their games can sux but their marketing not...
I was 8? I'll take it, why not? makes me feel younger.
Diablo II... like every blizzard game I had the misfortune of playing, it sucked. Got about 2 days of "fun" out of it and dropped it, and never looked back, there are better flash games on facebook.
You're correct about Blizzard's marketing however, they're like apple, they make a living off selling nicely packaged peices of (explicit) to consumers who are too ignorant to know there are better products at a better price.
Look at WoW? Wanna start playing it? Go drop $19.99 on the release, $19.99 on the 2nd expansion, $29.99 on the 3rd, and $49.99 on the new one. Kudos Blizzard, $100 startup cost.
If when (or more likely at this point, when) they switch the servers off in EU/NA, L2 will still be alive and kicking in Korea, where it matters. If the changes you are proposing will make the game better for you, save yourself the dissapointment and go play WoW.
Beg to differ dude
Diablo is a joke. Blizzard is a joke. Their games are such **** that no ones plays them for more than a month or two. That's how they make money on WoW
It'd be pretty impossible to find a more ignorant (not to mention ridiculous) statement in the whole MMO gaming universe. And guess who made it? Hint: You
Russians did not make it eu friendly, they made a deal for their privates to get off updates. What they did was stopping bots because they dont fit privates model. In privates ppl pay for exp, weapons, enchants, etc, if they can bot them, GMs lose, while here GMs used to imagine the more bots the more money and this put the game in the state it is today. IF they woke up and will continue and speed up the clean up process, it isnt too late, it remains to be seen if this is not another attempt they will stop half way like before so many times.
M
Russians made the game twice as easy, that's the number 1 complaint EU/US players have been voicing through the years. And they make a lot of money with microtransactions, so it's in their financial interest to chase bots away since bots directly threaten their bottom line. But that's beside the point. The point I was making is simple ... the game is tailored to the Russian market as is evident by the number of people that play there instead of here. NA/US needs something similar.
It'd be pretty impossible to find a more ignorant (not to mention ridiculous) statement in the whole MMO gaming universe. And guess who made it? Hint: You
Allow me enlighten you:
Look at consoles. PS3, Xbox, Wii. It's the largest entertainment industry in the world. It overtook movies in 2007 as the highest grossing form of entertainment, and overtook the adult videos in 2009 (that's massive, the world is fully of pervetted peeps).
People play console games and pay $60 a pop for a game that they'll play for maybe 20 hours. Some players play 1 hour a day, other play 20 hours straight and go sell it back to the store so they can get a cut of the next $60 game they waste 20 hours on.
It's the turn-over that keeps the developers on the higher income side of it.
WoW caught on to this novel concept and cashed in. They know that your typical American gamer does not have the attention span to play a game, dedicated for 8 months to reach the max level. So they've re-worked the game to encourage the players with ADD. Nothing in that game requires more than 10 minutes of your time to get through from start to finish. Everything is instance, and it takes something like 3 and half hours to get from level 1, to level 80 with the help of just 1 friend.
They know that players will eventually leave, and the very few players sick around for more than a month or two, so they've made it possible to experience everything that game has to offer in that one month. The customer leave satisfied, feeling badass 'cuz he's got a max level toon, and retires his account. The next Joe comes along and does the same thing.
It's more sound financially for them to traffic 10,000 accounts a month, and loose them all in two, knowing that there will be 10,000 new accounts coming in next months.
Lineage II is the exact opposite. It does absolutely nothing to draw in new players, instead expecting it's players to have longevity and see it through, which they don't, and is exactly why it has no measurable success in the US/EU. For that same reason, Blizzard is massive in the Western world, and has little or no success in Asia.
Look at consoles. PS3, Xbox, Wii. It's the largest entertainment industry in the world. It overtook movies in 2007 as the highest grossing form of entertainment, and overtook the adult videos in 2009 (that's massive, the world is fully of pervetted peeps).
People play console games and pay $60 a pop for a game that they'll play for maybe 20 hours. Some players play 1 hour a day, other play 20 hours straight and go sell it back to the store so they can get a cut of the next $60 game they waste 20 hours on.
It's the turn-over that keeps the developers on the higher income side of it.
WoW caught on to this novel concept and cashed in. They know that your typical American gamer does not have the attention span to play a game, dedicated for 8 months to reach the max level. So they've re-worked the game to encourage the players with ADD. Nothing in that game requires more than 10 minutes of your time to get through from start to finish. Everything is instance, and it takes something like 3 and half hours to get from level 1, to level 80 with the help of just 1 friend.
They know that players will eventually leave, and the very few players sick around for more than a month or two, so they've made it possible to experience everything that game has to offer in that one month. The customer leave satisfied, feeling badass 'cuz he's got a max level toon, and retires his account. The next Joe comes along and does the same thing.
It's more sound financially for them to traffic 10,000 accounts a month, and loose them all in two, knowing that there will be 10,000 new accounts coming in next months.
Lineage II is the exact opposite. It does absolutely nothing to draw in new players, instead expecting it's players to have longevity and see it through, which they don't, and is exactly why it has no measurable success in the US/EU. For that same reason, Blizzard is massive in the Western world, and has little or no success in Asia.
Lineage II is the exact opposite. It does absolutely nothing to draw in new players, instead expecting it's players to have longevity and see it through, which they don't, and is exactly why it has no measurable success in the US/EU. For that same reason, Blizzard is massive in the Western world, and has little or no success in Asia.
While, in general, I agree with you, this is not part of it.
True that ppl in US and partly in EU lack the attention span to keep going with a game for months and years, L2 never apealed for those.
It is a niche product, there are about 10% at least of ppl CAPABLE of staying for years in a game like this. I know hundreds of ppl that stay in browser games longer...
However, this possible pool of players is not attracted right. If 1% of the gamer population, not 10%, will choose l2 in NA/EU we will have 10+ heavy servers with 1 mil active accounts, because also some russians will play here.
The problem is not that, L2 will never be WoW, nor is targetting the same ppl, it is the poor marketing and the massive cheating that lead to this situation.
Solve at least one of the problems and we may have 10 servers in no time. And which is more easy to solve, cheaper and guaranteed to keep ppl for longer ?
No prizes for a right guess.
M
Lots of ridiculous inaccuracies I just made up in my mind like everybody quits wow after 2 months but they are replaced by an equal number of new players
Fixed it for you oh enlightened one
Wow is successful cause it doesn't demand absolute long term commitment. L2 does and it's not successful, at least not in our culture. What Russia does well is to lessen the commitment players need to make to a game. It has nothing to do with ADD. It has everything to do with the natural instinct of wanting to compete in something that is ... competitive and the natural aversion towards incredibly slow progress towards an ever moving goal.
To enlighten you, what Wow does well and gets it money is anybody can play 2 hours/week and be endgame, and enjoy the content. Lineage 2 requires 20 hours/week over 5 years to do the same. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when a game demands pretty much a job level of time investment, well it aint gonna last.
Diablo is a joke. Blizzard is a joke. Their games are such **** that no ones plays them for more than a month or two.
Wrong. Diablo I/II is still being played today. Started way before Lineage II and will continue way past Lineage II. If they do Diablo III right then I will be spending my time on that. In terms of WOW though...your point is valid.
Wrong. Diablo I/II is still being played today. Started way before Lineage II and will continue way past Lineage II. If they do Diablo III right then I will be spending my time on that. In terms of WOW though...your point is valid.
On top of that, StarCraft 2 has more accounts then Lineage 2 :P
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when a game demands pretty much a job level of time investment, well it aint gonna last.
In spite of all that, it is still alive and well in places where it is played as it was ment to be.
Besides, while the cheaters in WoW are, of course more than here, proportionally the difference is huge, WoW is a game with some cheaters while L2 is a game with some legits.
Besides, in WoW ppl can access endgame pretty fast without cheating, even if all the others would cheat, while here cheaters have impossible to overcome advantages, and will always have, they block content from legits, not only through those advantages but also through sheer numbers.
M
Wow is successful cause it doesn't demand absolute long term commitment. L2 does and it's not successful, at least not in our culture. What Russia does well is to lessen the commitment players need to make to a game. It has nothing to do with ADD. It has everything to do with the natural instinct of wanting to compete in something that is ... competitive and the natural aversion towards incredibly slow progress towards an ever moving goal.
To enlighten you, what Wow does well and gets it money is anybody can play 2 hours/week and be endgame, and enjoy the content. Lineage 2 requires 20 hours/week over 5 years to do the same. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when a game demands pretty much a job level of time investment, well it aint gonna last.
Errr... you pretty much repeated what Grimaldus said in your own words. Anyway, ncsoft made leveling to 75 easier in order to attract more people to the game. I think that ncsoft west will have to count on High 5 and especially the upcoming goddess of destruction to bring more people back as well as a new influx of players. Now if only they had the marketing skills of Blizzard...
On top of that, StarCraft 2 has more accounts then Lineage 2 :P
Starcarft II is new (ish) and is thus still the FOTM. It's one of the most pathetic RTS I've ever played. Which is typical of Blizzard. They've never had an original thought pass through their head. Ever.
From the very first Warcraft title, they've completely ripped the IP of GamesWorkshop's Warhammer universe. Warhammer 40,000 came out and guess what, Blizzard copied that one as well, Starcraft was born. An autistic, colorblind, tolder could see the visual concept completely robbed GW. Look at a Tyranid Ravenor, and look at a Zerg... no discussion, Blizzard are talentless hacks, who steal ideas and laugh their way to the bank with them.
It's sick that they got away with SCII, and if they hadn't gone through with their merger, they'd have been tied up in litigation for a lot longer, and probably lost the IP lawsuits.
Just like any good person should have no respect for thieves, I have no respect for Blizzard. It's criminal what they've done, and sick that they got away with it.
In any case, that's another topic for some other thread someday, and not really related to this one.
What is related, is that you just compared an MMO to an RTS for accounts. Apples and Oranges.
To enlighten you, what Wow does well and gets it money is anybody can play 2 hours/week and be endgame, and enjoy the content. Lineage 2 requires 20 hours/week over 5 years to do the same. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when a game demands pretty much a job level of time investment, well it aint gonna last.
You are typing the above statement in forums of a MMO that has been online now for more than seven years; this is paradoxical.
P.S. Almost forgot... if all those games are so much better why are you posting in this forum? Go play those games and post in those forums about how great it is over there.
Well, they have been predicting the demise of L2 since about 2 mos after general release. Read many discussions back then on how the game was too tough, blah, blah, blah and because of that, the NA market would not survive and the servers would be shut down.
Well, we are down to two servers, but myself, I've been playing now for what 6 1/2 years (and there are many others like me here still). I think where this all fell down was the marketing in NA and EU. The game is so huge in Korea that these other markets just don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I would love it if we still had lots of servers and 100's of thousands of players, but its just not going to happen. But, that said, not all is lost. We have seen in this past year that some things are changing and indeed improving.
I am excited about the future updates coming and the potential refresh that the L2 Project is going to represent. Now, if they capitalise on that momentum, things in 2011 could very well show some real positives. I for one am looking forward to that. Hell, I've been here this long... its going to take a whole **** load of screw ups to get rid of me now.
Well, nobody denies there is a terrible management in NA, but the game itself, while far from perfect, is much better than many others, and, while not easy enough for the average joe, it is getting easier all the time.
TBH it is now too easy for me, I am concentrating on other aspects than the game itself to find a real challenge, such as building a nice legit clan in cheater's paradise full of rude script kiddies.
If you really want a challenge in many different ways, then this game is for you, for ppl that need to relax their rested brains while playing, maybe other games would be better and I dont understand why they should suffer here instead.
Now back to the changes in 2010, that is the way to go, but we are just starting this trip, I am afraid the current team, while much better than the last one, wont be up to the task, but i very much preffer these ppl, which maybe are incompetent, but not corrupted like the ones in .ru, for example. There is one thing to allow cheaters because you are unable to remove them and/or you dont realize they killed and killing the game and completely another to cheat yourself and help certain clans/ppl, etc, like privates do, as well as giving huge advantages for money.
Here ppl go buy adena from 3rd party ppl, from my knowledge alegations about NC ppl selling adena are complete BS, they use themselves 3rd party programs to level and PVP instead of being put max level by GM and given godmode for sieges, for instance.
If you think our GMs are the worst in the world, relax, there are much worse out there, ppl which played in privates know that very well.
I still think L2 in NA has a chance IF they keep the good work they started, we made some progress during 2010, lets hope 2011 will capitalise on that and instead of dropping numbers we will see more and more ppl returning to a hard but fair game for all.
M
sc2 is the best game out there now along with dawn of war 2
today my l2 acount expires and i am very happy! i already deleted my icarus duals +9 300 wind and i am considering deleteng my lvl 84 chars also so i dont get tempted renew l2.... i haf enough... playing since ch 1 the worst game ever... i am very disapointed and i kiss it goodbye
Wow after reading that I swear you probably blew your brains out all over your monitor and keyboard. You sound very angry, 6-7 years of being angry with this game or was that spontaneous?
Shame to waste such hard earned items! If you want to "help L2" in a different way you can donate some of your gear to me. Maybe this way I can get an SA on my crafted Icarus sword instead of farming AA until H5 comes out?
Well I don't know how many players play on the Lineage 2 servers at here. I experienced, that the player base didn't decreased I see again more old players and I met many new players who are started the game on the last weeks, days, months.
The reason why the activity on the servers are decreased easy! Now, that we have Rec System for XP bonus to first 1 hour and Nevit Hourglass for 1-2-3 plus hours a day. The legit players mostly plays under this time after they quit and return tomorrow. They don't need to be online 10-15 hours too to get level as in the past years. But you can see when the Sieges are start and TWs the servers traffics change to Normal or Heavy. Anyway at usually the at the most crowed times (example siege times) only the 20% of the player base online.
It is a very good thing, that the NCwest banned so many bots and they do this much more faster as they did years ago.
So the easier XP and the server cleaning from the bots are very good reason for the legit players to play with Lineage 2 and return/start play with Lineage 2.
I think the Goddess of Destruction can be the secret weapon to rebirth the game in Europe and America if will happen with it of before it any payment changes too (fewer monthly payment, f2p model) it can increase much more the player base too.
Well I think in 2010 the NCwest made much more better service as anytime before!
From August of 2010 happend so many and so good changes.
I never will forget Sace's words! She told, that with leading of Cabel will be many really big changes in the future and the currently changes just the first steps. We experienced, that really happened nice changes. Clan Hall Distribution, Double XP event, server cleaning from the bots.
These changes with the time will can take nice results!
So, it looks like most ppl agree on this:
1. 2010 saw improvements in NCNA hadling of customer service, reducing the number of bots and abandoning plans for discontinuation of L2 after AION failure.
2. The drop in online presence is only in part due to ppl leaving, but mostly to bot banning and ppl being online less permanently, either because AFK is too risky or because legits dont need it so much.
3. While the number of bots banned and ppl leaving in total, does not seem to be equaled yet by the number of returnees (mostly) and new players (few), it looks like the decline is largely stopped and the trend can be reversed in the (near) future.
4. All this is due to:
-improved customer service, more interaction and considering and applying some of the requests of the players (mostly where was possible due to changes in mechanics largely decided in korea);
-better policing that gave hope to some legits;
-faster leveling and vita events that made ppl stuck at 78-79 levels to easily pass 80 and get hope they will be able to see more content without "working" for a game;
-merger that improved markets and a few other things while not hindering legits too much (at least on naia);
-failure of AION that brought some ppl back;
-new content delivered and the promise of even more steps in the direction of which NA ppl would want them;
-lack of new leaks of game files which made "off" moded privates looking more and more obsolete, in spite of their success in combating some forms of cheating while l2j suffered some setbacks and also serious bugs;
-fast turnover in the MMORPG market where games rise and fall within a single year making ppl yearn for some stability as well as those games being too easy for L2 fans taste as well as other considerations.
All these things are likely to continue to contribute to this turnaround in 2011, and if they have some brains, ppl in NCNA will not only continue, but greatly intensify their efforts, seeing that l2 is salvageable, even in it's current form, nevermind new f2p models and microtransactions for things that dont give much advantage in game such as exp or enchants, weapons, etc.
Personally, my opinion is that the game is perfectly salvageable and has a huge growing potential, I am just unsure this current team can do it. What i am sure of (at least for now) is that they will try, and this is the most important step towards this goal.
M
I think at the best way how we can tell what we want if we make votes! Example open a topic with pull "what type of event would like to in 2011?" or "what type of payment change would you like to see in our region?" etc.
Most easier for the GM team understand what we want if we follow this form of decide about different things.
Because if 10 players write 10 comments all is different if 100 players write 100 comments all is different. By read the forum comments more harder and slowly make good changes for the community. But with pulls they can understand much easier what the community really want in different topics from them.
I think at the best way how we can tell what we want if we make votes! Example open a topic with pull "what type of event would like to in 2011?" or "what type of payment change would you like to see in our region?" etc.
Most easier for the GM team understand what we want if we follow this form of decide about different things.
Because if 10 players write 10 comments all is different if 100 players write 100 comments all is different. By read the forum comments more harder and slowly make good changes for the community. But with pulls they can understand much easier what the community really want in different topics from them.
There are some problems with the polls here. They can be manipulated fairly easy, unless GMs are careful, but ppl that post here, while we can say pretty safely, are among the most interested about the game's fate, they are still a minority.
Also, we should not forget that cheaters still make the majority (I suspect, the big majority) of players, as such, their interest is often conflicting with NCNA and game's interest in general.
Another point to make is that you cant put to a referendum some things. Like in RL you cannot ask ppl if they want to pay taxes, they will say no and with that the state will self-dissolve into anarchy, wild-wild west style. Here also, if ppl want in majority an event that will drop vesper at every second mob, that will destroy the game as we know it, market and money have a big importance here.
No, listening to ppl and picking the serious ideas that are most likely to contribute to a good game experience for a huge majority, enforcing their own rules without alienating the playerbase, these things need good skills that NCNA ppl are slowly aquiring.
Lets take the Christmas event for example, it sucked badly, if we take that alone, we would think we have the old attitude and ppl, that is clearly something hastefully patched up so they wont say they didnt do an event this Christmas, but, in my view, not doing anything would have been better, some candies, some 2x exp, hats, etc, would have been probably better. Heck, even better than this would have been a re-run of old santa events, when he was coming down near you in the fields and leave a present. That was great event, even the rudolph one was better. This is one example where 2010 was way worse than 2009, 2008, etc. And most ppl agree with me on that, you dont need any poll for that, it is plain obvious as you dont need any poll about the badges, almost everyone wants them back, in addition to current ones, not replacing them, a minority would suggest increasing the count some 1-2 TW, but the sensitive thing to do is to give them back, it is fair and normal, you dont need poll for that either, etc.
Also, in a poll about banning the bots, they will say no, but is this the good thing to do for the game's future ? As past experience shows, it isnt, but the majority will vote to keep their advantage by continuing to cheat 24/7, so what to do ?
No, polls are not a solution, it would have been way too easy if it was that way.
M
Yes, about the Poll you have right from one side. But example when I told the idea for Poll, that "what events would you like in 2011?" Here can change the ppls, cuz somebody want mostly XP events, another players events where he can get money, next player want PVP event, again a next player want event with Unique items what you only get under the event.
Or the Poll about the payment changes (if the NCwest plan it) with this Poll would be much easier to see for them how the community would like to pay maybe.
I play Lineage 2 from C5 so I experienced many thing under this time. Example I really don't think that these older times was so much better as nowadays. Than mostly the players from the big clans XPed untagged after they returned to clans under siege times. Next of them Varka, Ketra, Hot Springs WoA was full of farmer bots. You couldn't make quests there if you tried kill them appeared around you some overpowered character from any top clan to protect them.
Nowadays is much more better! I think the legit players can enjoy the game more and more. Mostly now start see the players, that the legit players has chance too for enjoy the game. This news will goes around the players who stopped the game or who plan to start the game and this will give for them more bonus to return to Lineage 2.
If the marketing machine could start the NCwest could earn many players and recruit new players too. Without this process the players will come to here more slowly and we can experience still to longer time that the servers many time has light traffic or maybe fewer as now. But with time it will slowly increasing again if the NCwest continue the server cleaning and gives same nice events as in the last months.
I'm not sure there were ever any plans to discontinue L2.
MMOs are a strange creature. As much as some people like to think they know better, there simply is no way to chart the successes or failures of the many MMOS on the market at a given time.
Once an MMO reaches the success of L2, or WoW, they start playing be different rules.
Even movie sequels make a perfect example. Major, major successes are typically a one-hit deal. Disney is the most financially sucessful in the industry and their animated classics are a prime example. Look at "The Lion King" One of their biggest successes... and the sequels were lucky to bring in 10% of what they grossed.
The same is true of games. Sure there are exceptions, and fans tend to be a little more hardcore in the gaming world, so they'll buy a game regardless, just to have it, and then just never play it again.
In any case, the example I am making here is to paint the background for why WoW did what they did. They started noticing that their numbers were dropping in about 2009. And Dropping fast. So they starting work on a plan. They could have made WoW II, but they decided not to for a number of reasons.
Firstly, PC gaming differs from Console gaming in that not everyone has the same hardware. Every PS3 or Xbox runs on the same hardware, so once you make a game, it sells X-number of copies, and that's that. But in the PC world, you have to to code a game so that anyone, on a number of different hardware configurations can play and enjoy it. This means milliions more dollars in development. And much more time.
Also, your typical PC owner does not even have a Video Card. 95% of home PCs use the integrated GPU on their motherboard. After market additions are for the "gaming PC" demographic, and they are not that large in number.
So, not only does a game sequel have to be a big enough hit that it can actually convince millions of players to abandon a many year long investment, but it has to run on nearly every PC, and look and feel BETTER than the last game, on the same equipment. This is quite hard to do.
So, it's more economic to continue adding to an existing game, so that sales of your new one do not take away from your old one. The cuurent players will not need new hardware to continue.
It is for these reasons, and many more, that it's unlikely L2 was ever up for dissolution. Look at the continuation of L1 for goodness sake.
There will always be plenty of chumps out there who only play games because they are a the latest and greatest, but they are not catered to by any game because the moment the newer game comes along, they're off to play it. Unfortunately, those the folks that are most likely to make posts about about overdue L2 is for death, and how it's such a failure...
Leave their opinions to them, and just keep on enjoying L2 as long as it continues to be something you enjoy.
If we consider also that many ppl that quit had to to because were banned for cheating and moved to more appropriate games for their age, then this isnt a bad move on the condition that cheaters will continue to be banned so legit ppl will return in larger numbers than they are doing now.
I have no problem with cheaters being removed from the game, but I don't like how you said, "moved to more appropriate games for their age." If you qualify to play then what right does someone 30 have over someone who is 17? Each player is allowed to play how they are allowed. Besides, just as many older players bot as younger.
What if I was to tell you today, that you are not allowed to play L2 anymore. Everything you worked for is gone now, and you did nothing wrong. Don't place that stereotype on them please. I was 18 when I first started playing and I hated how some clans would not allow me entrance because they feared I would be some immature child.
I have no problem with cheaters being removed from the game, but I don't like how you said, "moved to more appropriate games for their age." If you qualify to play then what right does someone 30 have over someone who is 17? Each player is allowed to play how they are allowed. Besides, just as many older players bot as younger.
What if I was to tell you today, that you are not allowed to play L2 anymore. Everything you worked for is gone now, and you did nothing wrong. Don't place that stereotype on them please. I was 18 when I first started playing and I hated how some clans would not allow me entrance because they feared I would be some immature child.
This is not about right or wrong. It is about how ppl behave and what are they looking for at different ages.
We all agree kids are more imaptient than adults and they want instant gratification, much more then we wanted at our age, and it is normal somehow because this is the environment today.
L2 is a game which needs patience, attention to detail, attempts to find a delicate balance somewhere, how to get an edge some other place, etc, things that orientals are more inclined to and towards which, kids have a natural aversion. As such, they tend to cut corners, they dont feel like they acomplished something if it takes 5 years... especially when their peers got there in 5 months by cheating.
L2 is not a game for kids, even young adults find it tedious and hard, while adults can simply see it as a game, they dont need to acomplish anything, and if they do, that is a secondary goal, dont try to asert themselves in a game, at least not the big majority of them...
That being said, there are kids that can concentrate and see the beauty of the game, as well as adults that cheat worse than a 12 yo. However, those are the minority, I am not judging anyone, I just tend to look at an adult as a more likely candidate for a person that enjoys L2 than to a kid that, even when cheating, will soon lose interest after "owning" everything and everyone.
L2 is not for the western world kids, but adults may find it a challenging and comprehensive game to relax into.
This is my view, shoot me.
M
it doeasnt matter - SC2 is also no real MMO and it stole many ppl - but gameplay of DIII is more absorbing so my point can be real... many ppl are tired of l2 after 2-5 years but nothing can replace l2 and they are still in l2 ... so hello shopmode in l2 and DIII playing live :) he he Gameguard must recognize Blizzard exe's as "hacking tool" he he
While I was a bit disgusted that Starcraft have had some much success over Total Annihilation, that's what happened. It got a bigger and longer success than Lineage II. But we aren't talking about the same players there, so even if Starcraft is played a lot, it isn't a problem for MMORPGs.
Now I understand the mention of Diablo III, because you'll find a lot more players who are customers of both Diablo and Lineage franchises. And while it is difficult to compare the game themselves, the fact that Diablo III (from assumption on what were the previous ones) will suck the time of the player means that they'll be somehow rival for a part of the customer base.
However, that's not what will kill L2. As already mentioned, L2 NA/EU is particular. It's more a leech on L2 Korea's back than a game on itself that can or must be successful. And as NCsoft Korea decided to continue L2's development with big guns in Goddess of Destruction, L2 won't die by Diablo III's hand. WoW hurt it a lot, but D3 won't affect it that much.
Finally, does that mean that L2 NA/EU will be nice to play? Not sure. That's probably what you mean by dead. If L2 NA/EU doesn't manage to attract new players, the subs will drop and the gameplay will suffer more and more from the lowering population.
Personally, I'll be looking at Guild Wars 2 to see if that suits me better or not. It's not set in stone, but I'll try it.
things that orientals are more inclined to and towards which, kids have a natural aversion. M
The term 'Oriental' (from the Latin word for "Eastern") was originally used during the Middle Ages in Europe in reference to the Near East. It was later extended to the rest of Asia, but came to refer to East Asians and in some cases, Southeast Asians in the 19th and 20th century United States, where most Asians were originally Chinese, with later additions of Korean, Japanese, and other groups from Asia.
Now I understand the mention of Diablo III, because you'll find a lot more players who are customers of both Diablo and Lineage franchises. And while it is difficult to compare the game themselves, the fact that Diablo III (from assumption on what were the previous ones) will suck the time of the player means that they'll be somehow rival for a part of the customer base.
Maybe for a few days. A week tops. Diablo III, like all Blizzard products, whill be steller for about the first 30 minutes, and then die. Players will buy the game for $60, play it, get bored with it, and go back to playing better games in a matter of days.
The term 'Oriental' (from the Latin word for "Eastern") was originally used during the Middle Ages in Europe in reference to the Near East. It was later extended to the rest of Asia, but came to refer to East Asians and in some cases, Southeast Asians in the 19th and 20th century United States, where most Asians were originally Chinese, with later additions of Korean, Japanese, and other groups from Asia.
Thanks for the note, but I meant it in the meaning it has now. Besides, arabs also have intricate designs and if we think of their carpets only, we see the attention to details and such. Blizzard games are designed for the average joe in the west while l2 for a niche audience here, that is why there is a huge difference in popularity, however, L2 can do much better in the west, I am absolutely sure about this, no matter the age and the smaller targetted audience.
M