There are some shops in towns "buying" stuff at incredible prices and others near selling just below the "buy" price.
While the buy shop has all initial caracteristics of a buy shop (yellow, sayd buy in description, you can only move your items, and not the number he has for "buy"), it is actually a sell shop. I was going to sell him some mememnto mori at 4 mil (had sell shop for 3 mil near, but I had from raids) however i thought this is very strange and mailed the money to myself so I had just 1 mil on me. And after getting the warning that the price differs, blah-blah (absolutely normal, since it was high for buy also, so no red flashing light there), i moved my 40 memento moris to the shop (not 65 he was buying so it is like any regular buy shop) but I got the message you do not have enough adena.
So, before buying from nearby shop to sell to the other "buy" shop, make sure you check using the method i described.
M
Edit: Has been clarified this is only a regular buy shop without adena, I dont know why it tells you you dont have enough adena, but that is how developpers intended it for some korean reason. Gm said it is OK and can be done using regular client.
I put some pictures.
You can also see the GM response that says everything is fine, they checked and I should check files, etc, the usual automated response which means they dont inted to fix this, so only way to prevent this scam is to know it before.
If you see a buy shop with prices too good to be true, check like i did, send yourself the money and try to sell.
You wont receive compensation from GMs as they say it is all fine at their end and they consider scam cases as PvP.
M
Edit: Pictures hosted offsite since there are problems to upload here:
Shop from close (www.100percent.info/1a.JPG)
There is another sell shop close by so you are tempted to buy from that and sell to "buy" shop. (www.100percent.info/1b.JPG)
That is how it works fox (www.100percent.info/1d.JPG)
Confirmed that the store exists (though that doesn't necessarily mean it's an exploit, you're jumping to conclusions without enough evidence here Mao). Notice it works like a buy shop if you don't have the items in inventory - that is, you can't "sell" anything to it.
Now, you didn't include the "you have not enough adena" message in your screen shots ... but assuming it's true, it might be a different kind of exploit: Setting up a buy shop without enough funds to buy stuff (I have a couple of ideas how this could be achieved), near a "cheaper" sell shop, to make people buy the "cheap" stuff without the ability to sell them right away. In this case, it would be a "normal" buy shop, and the GMs wouldn't find anything strange - if they didn't look closely enough to check that the character buying actually has the adena to buy in the inventory.
EDIT: BTW, you can buy a ton of Memento Moris at 450k each on Naia, so 3M/4M is definitively way too much. :D
Confirmed that the store exists (though that doesn't necessarily mean it's an exploit, you're jumping to conclusions without enough evidence here Mao). Notice it works like a buy shop if you don't have the items in inventory - that is, you can't "sell" anything to it.
You cannot setup a shop to buy without enough money, nor will you receive the not enough adena message trying to sell to it using the normal UI, at least not by mistake.
The reason I didnt post the not enough adena pic is that the shop window closes and remains only the not enough adena meesage whcih can be obtained at any other shop by trying to buy more than you can afford, so, the bot and exploiter defenders would have said the same thing, you dont have evidence.
M
This as to be checked ASAP by a GM, this is a serious issue/exploit. How in hell a buy shop can be a sell shop ???
Those 2 shops in the picture are obviously linked.
This as to be checked ASAP by a GM. How in hell a buy shop can be a sell shop ???
Those 2 shops in the picture are obviously linked.
Has been checked already (i filed bug report) and they said everything is fine. I should check my "File" because the problem is on my side, so, no, they wont fix it, we need to spread the word so adena companies wont make money too fast. The customer has to watch out for that.
M
You cannot setup a shop to buy without enough money, nor will you receive the not enough adena message trying to sell to it using the normal UI, at least not by mistake.
LOLZ
This "bug" exist for like 3 years and I belive all know about it. It's same like selling soul ore as A/S-crystalls - just ingame cheat.
You set selling shop with price more than market and set buying shop with price more than in selling shop. After it you remove adena from buying shop so he can't buy actually anything due to 0 adena on his inventory. There are few ways to move adena from buying shop. So NCSoft can only make impossible to KEEP selling shop if your adena in inventory less than needed to buy all stuff in buy shop.
This "bug" exist for like 3 years and I belive all know about it. It's same like selling soul ore as A/S-crystalls - just ingame cheat.
You set selling shop with price more than market and set buying shop with price more than in selling shop. After it you remove adena from buying shop so he can't buy actually anything due to 0 adena on his inventory. There are few ways to move adena from buying shop. So NCSoft can only make impossible to KEEP selling shop if your adena in inventory less than needed to buy all stuff in buy shop.
So why I get the message about not enough adena on my side ? But, we already have an official answer on this, this is how it was intended to work, so you are right. However, it does not hurt to spread the word so ppl know about it. I would be interested if you can detail on how to remove adena from you char which has shop already. I am going to try all legal ways allowed by UI.
It is confirmed. You can summon your pet, open its inventory, put up shop to buy, transfer money to the pet, unsummon it. Someone coming to sell to you will get not enough adena message, even tho it should be given to the shop owner.
Well, if GMs say this is normal and allowed, i wonder why there are not more ppl doing the same. Probably there are other legal ways to do this, however, I consider that is a bug exploit even tho GMs allow it, and should not be used by legit ppl. I am just weird.
M
You cannot setup a shop to buy without enough money
You can. I just tried a few ideas, and one of them worked; I'll send you the how via in-game PM so you can try it out yourself, and so others won't get stupid ideas.
The trick is that u buy an item (that everyone sell for 500k) for 3m and then u cant sell it in the nearby shop for 4m! The buy shop by itself doesnt do anything although its a bug to set a buy shop without money.
The trick is that u buy an item (that everyone sell for 500k) for 3m and then u cant sell it in the nearby shop for 4m! The buy shop by itself doesnt do anything although its a bug to set a buy shop without money.
Nope, GM already checked and said it is OK, so it is not a bug. However, I still consider this shoul dnot be done by ppl that want to stay legit. It is only my opinion tho, same as castle taking with bot help or leeching in party with bots, the rest of the ppl consider that legit and also GMs to some point (they used to temp ban for leeching in bot party, from what i heard, even tho EULA doesnt forbid this, just the general "we can ban you for whatever reason we see fit, or suspicion of a reason").
M
You can. I just tried a few ideas, and one of them worked; I'll send you the how via in-game PM so you can try it out yourself, and so others won't get stupid ideas.
As I said few ways to remove adena from buy shop exist for like 3 year and dunno why all ppl still dont know this "bug". Also mail system add couple more ways to remove adena from buy shop (dunno, maybe "old" methods was fixed already).
But I want to mark that it's UI methods. Not like regular mail with "hidden" payment that can be send only with some 3d soft.
Hum, i didnt have yet the hidden payment mail yet.
However, this has been clarified, it is allowed and it is not a bug. But, many ppl dont know about it and the you dont have enough adena message is kinda confusing. I am not sure why they wanted to do this and what does it help to remove the adena from shop the game mechanics, but since it is allowed, we can only tell ppl to take care.
M
P.S. The buy shop has been removed, only the sell shop remains.
GMs don't play the game, so sometimes they just don't get wth we're talking about. You should try to petition it as a bug saying:
"At normal circumstances player buy shop are not allowed to purchase (buy) items at higher price than the amount of adena they have in the inventory, as there will be a pop-up message which will not allow the (buy) shop to be set. However, there is a bug that allow players to setup buy shop without having enough adena in their inventory to purchase the item; where the transaction will not go through.
Due to this bug, there are players exploiting it to scam other players. For example, <enter your example, too lazy to type it lol>. In the typical scamming, players can avoid it by reading and double checking the name/price of the item before purchasing. Nevertheless, in this (bug exploit) situation players cannot check if the buy shop have enough adena to purchase the item before purchasing the item from the sell shop (likely being setup by the same player); hence players can easily fall into the scamming trap."
1). set a buy shop for item "x" at 10 mil say <---not enough adena to buy
2). next to or near buy shop set sell shop with same item "x" at 9 mil
scam is now set....
been caught out with this way back in C1 hehe...
scams only work if care is not taken to check what ur buying...
classic point>click>buy without a second glance untill its to late..:eek:
You will be amazed how many ppl didnt know about this and I wonder why is not more widespread. Sell shop had 123 memento moris, at the time scam buy one disapeared had 81 left. All perfectly legal, PvP style, I put up this thread because while i was there talking to clannies, at least 4 ppl came and looked at both shops.
In my view this is bug abuse, it should not be possible to set buy shop without adena, but GMs consider it PvP fair and square, so they are right. I wonder why there is a check for setting shop if you have adena ? Maybe to warn you if you put wrong price at something, hummmm...
M
It is just financial PvP. There is a very easy way to do this. It is a way that the financial PvP'ers set you up for an easy win on their side.
If you try to make a quick buck by buying something low and think you are going to sell to a shop for a higher price right away, you are taking a risk with your adena. There is no gaurentee that the buy shop is set up right, or that shop will not DC or log off before you can sell to the buy shop.
Whenever you buy something in L2, there is no guarentee that your investment will appreciate. In fact, in most cases, items depreciate in value, not appreciate.
PvP is not just the loss of XP on a character, there is financial PvP too. Look at the morons out there selling Aurabird books as Giant Codex Mastery books.
This is just a more thought out way to do the same thing.
My question would be is why the first GM didn't notice this as a bug and instead said everything was fine?
From all my petition experience, I realized that I have to explain the issue to the GM as if they were L2 noobs for them to understand the petition. So if I submit a petition with all the 'game technical' detail like to another L2 player, I usually get a response of "It's working as intended."
Hum, i didnt have yet the hidden payment mail yet.
Was funny bug. You receive free (w\o any payment) mail from unknown toon with some low-value-item, you accept it and when you check your adena amount you will find out that it was decreased. I hope it was fixed.
And it's just few examples. So always exist a lot of unknown bugs that waiting for players to find it. And no one know if player who find it will send it to GMs or start use it.
But you need to understand that posibility to fix bug depends of information you send to GMs. If you send info like "I see sell shop with appearance like buy shop" you will just adviced to make full check. If you send info like "I find buy shop that dont buy items" - MAYBE this issue will be catched in 3-4 weeks. But if you send info "player XXX make buy shop XX.XX.2011 at YY:YY GMT+N server XYX and than remove adena from it to stop actual buying and use this shop as part of scam process" - this issue can be catched in less than 1 week. Regarding this "bug" as I said before, I dont think that it will be considered as a bug, but in general you need to report all suspicious stuff with maximum details to GMs.
I put in the report something like: hey, fallenelf (whatever that name i wont scrollback) has a shop that says it is buy but in fact is sell shop. Or something along those lines with some few details such as getting not enough adena message when trying to sell there.
Now, I realise this was not the case, yet, I indicated the name of the char and some sympthoms. Working as intended should have NOT happened if this was not really working as intended. So I think Moxie's message was about the hidden payment issue, not the no adena shop.
I did not buy from the nearby shop, actually noticed it later, I think every clan and almost every char has tons of memento moris lying around without any use since they are needed for so few things and are other rb items that are in demand.
All in all, this is not a bug, it can be clearly done without third party tools as I tested and ppl say there are other means to remove adena from shop (I would appreciate it if you share a few or all you know), GMs clearly said it is working as intended, however, the hidden payment thing should be fixed asap, or at least ppl made aware not to accept stems or other things from unknown senders.
M