in H5, you earn additional xp bonuses depends on the numbers of members in the party. Ofcourse you earn most exp if you are soloing. then two people, then three, then four.
However, things change from five people. Five people would earn less bonus xp then those with seven people in party. So in korea, if they have to party more than 5, they just get additional 2 people even if they don't do anything to make 7 member party.
9 people party earnes the least bonus xps. So in Korea, if possible, they already prefer to have 7 member parties.. not too many 9 member parties being made up unless in those really high level hunting grounds.
Here's the chart that shows the difference of the additional bonuses you get depends on the numbers of members in party before and after of H5 updates.
# in party... Before H5.... After H5.... ratio (How much more % compare to before H5)
_____________________________________________
1............... 100%.........207%........207%
2............... 65%......... 114%........175%
3............... 46%......... 83%......... 179%
4 ...............38%......... 67%......... 179%
5 ...............31% .........58%......... 188%
6 ...............26%......... 52%......... 196%
7 ...............23%.........59%.........254%
8 ...............21%......... 54%......... 260%
9 ...............19%......... 51%......... 265%
We are already getting used to making 7 members hunting party.
So when GoD is up, I don't think having 7 members in the party is an issue..
In another word, Let's say if you earn 100k xp on a mob now, you will earn additional bonus xps as follows;
# of members......... xps per mob .........xps per mob
in party ..................before H5............ after H5
1. ...........................100,000 ...............207,000
2. ...........................65,000 .................114,000
3. ...........................46,000 ..................83,000
4. ...........................38,000 ..................67,000
5. ...........................31,000 ..................58,000
6. ...........................26,000 ..................52,000
7. ...........................23,000 .................59,000:D
8. ...........................21,000 ..................54,000
9. ...........................19,000 ..................51,000:(
People complain because here in NA/EU such thing as clan is just for crest. There's no such thing as clan anymore just 'constant' parties meaning same people all the time in the same party.
Anyway thx for information. 7 man parties will be most efficient ones.
Do you mean you only used to party with your clan members only or with someone you know only?
We party with anybody as long as their lvl is suitable for hunting.
PvE clan members will party with anybody except those from PvP clan, PvP clan members will only party with members from their alliance.
Here people only play with same 9 people. Well mostly. If for example you are not the member of constant party and exping somewhere and member of constant party logged you will be kicked(assuming the member wants to exp).
I'd say that's wrong way to play.
I guess it has to do with limited numbers of people within server that could play at the lvl you are playing.
We party based on first come first served base. Regardless how long you've known the person or you just have met him, whoever comes in the matching first is going be in the party until he/she leaves.
When someone is leaving, they cannot just leave though. The person leaving has to wait until the party finds the replacement, so that the party can continuosly hunt. Unless you set time to end party in advance before begin the hunt and all the members agrees to end the party at the set time.
Some parties in good hunting area goes on for more than a day or two some times with constanly replaced members.
I think UA/EA server still has plenty of new people to meet and party with since the server has been merged. Just partying with only ones you know,, in my opinion is what's killing your server.
I'd say that's wrong way to play.
I guess it has to do with limited numbers of people within server that could play at the lvl you are playing.
We party based on first come first served base. Regardless how long you've known the person or you just have met him, whoever comes in the matching first is going be in the party until he/she leaves.
When someone is leaving, they cannot just leave though. The person leaving has to wait until the party finds the replacement, so that the party can continuosly hunt. Unless you set time to end party in advance before begin the hunt and all the members agrees to end the party at the set time.
Some parties in good hunting area goes on for more than a day or two some times with constanly replaced members.
I think UA/EA server still has plenty of new people to meet and party with since the server has been merged. Just partying with only ones you know,, in my opinion is what's killing your server.
That's how I would like to play the game, but most people here don't function that way for some reason lol. Just look at the Party Matching System here. You know I need to box my own party (meaning... I am my own party members) to actually level my prophet. That is also a reason why a lot of people quit, because they don't get/can't get parties.
Seriously.. this needs to be changed.. meeting up with new people and hunting with different people every time itself is just another fun.
Yes, some times you get ****** off too. but if you guys party with 'we' than 'I' concept, than it usually is no problem.
It's fun because everybody is different.
Imagine having se* with different people all the time.. :D:D
By the way, what do you use dice for? I saw it in the grocery shop. We don't have those.
And I am also shocked to see a lottery seller and you still have moster race. We never had lottery ticket seller, and no more race at monster race track. for some legal issue with gamble in Korea.
When party aquires a weapon or an armor from a drop, who keeps it? do you auction it? or is it finders keepers.. I am very curious.
We usually auction it within the party. Some cheaper items can be finders keepers too but.. we usually find a way for the whole party to share the 'luck'.
Dice is just for entertainment or fun although noyone use it anymore. The lottery seller and monster race i hardly think anyone use that anymore. They should change or remove that i think:)
Seriously.. this needs to be changed.. meeting up with new people and hunting with different people every time itself is just another fun.
Yes, some times you get ****** off too. but if you guys party with 'we' than 'I' concept, than it usually is no problem.
It's fun because everybody is different.
Imagine having se* with different people all the time.. :D:D
By the way, what do you use dice for? I saw it in the grocery shop. We don't have those.
And I am also shocked to see a lottery seller and you still have moster race. We never had lottery ticket seller, and no more race at monster race track. for some legal issue with gamble in Korea.
When party aquires a weapon or an armor from a drop, who keeps it? do you auction it? or is it finders keepers.. I am very curious.
We usually auction it within the party. Some cheaper items can be finders keepers too but.. we usually find a way for the whole party to share the 'luck'.
There's a few reasons for the way we party here. First, ppl are spread across many time zones. NA, Western Europe, Australia, Russia, etc, so many ppl look for players that are constantly on at the same time. Also, we tend to be very serious about the xp/hour we get, so many of us level up buffers that we then keep out of party later, that way we get the benefit of buffs w/o losing xp from additional party members. A lot of ppl found the live played buffers/healers unreliable, or not available when needed, so they just made their own to box.
I normally play with the same group of friends that I have known for several years, and we usually set the loot to random. Some parties set it to finders keepers and split it up later, but that can lead to headaches later on. Full drops are so rare, so mainly ppl are farming for things like ele stones. Raids of course are a different story, and usually those are split among the party/clan members that attend (through various means).
The dice are a novelty item, kind of a gambling tool, but no one really uses them. The lottery ticker seller and the race track are also rarely used, if ever. The rewards are so low that no one is interested in playing it.
Holy mother of GoD... Destructor, did you say that in high 5 i earn 2x exp compare to now????? So can I take it as double exp day, every day??? Thanks. May be I will just take the next few days off from grinding :D
destructor what you describe works for the neutral clans but the hard core players tend to be all part of the PVP clans and in there it's really constant party based..
fixed constant parties are best in PVP as they know each other well and work together in making the party stronger
reducing the max number to 7 means 2 less players that you played for years with and also 2 less dedicated DD/support in your PVP set up which is going to be quite bad..
again as most ppl have posted why reducing the max, why not increase it to max 12 and let the players decide for themselves how many they invite ? I play with friends most of whom are 85 100% and we don't care about how much XP we get..
the XP model you describe matters only to carebear/pve players and even those care less about that then about having fun with all their friends.. right now GoD means they're forced to kick 2 of their friends in their play style..
why pile so many changes into 1 release of which the majority in NA/EU/RU severely disagree with ?
destructor what you describe works for the neutral clans but the hard core players tend to be all part of the PVP clans and in there it's really constant party based..
fixed constant parties are best in PVP as they know each other well and work together in making the party stronger
reducing the max number to 7 means 2 less players that you played for years with and also 2 less dedicated DD/support in your PVP set up which is going to be quite bad..
again as most ppl have posted why reducing the max, why not increase it to max 12 and let the players decide for themselves how many they invite ? I play with friends most of whom are 85 100% and we don't care about how much XP we get..
the XP model you describe matters only to carebear/pve players and even those care less about that then about having fun with all their friends.. right now GoD means they're forced to kick 2 of their friends in their play style..
why pile so many changes into 1 release of which the majority in NA/EU/RU severely disagree with ?
Well you better start dealing with 7 man parties because it will be the way as Korea doesn't really mind.
Furthermore PvE clans doesn't have such constants. Most of us really play just for fun and can do fine with 7 people.
the XP model you describe matters only to carebear/pve players and even those care less about that then about having fun with all their friends.. right now GoD means they're forced to kick 2 of their friends in their play style..
Let's in EU/NA too only the top clans or some middle strong clan's top players play in const party.
I very thankful for you destructor why you explain to us what is the reason of party set up changes. From now I understand it. So I think if in the more Asian countries too play with same style than I think total understandable the changes.
Fewer people, fewer problem.
destructor at us the party is much more difficult thing as in Korea as someone told you in an older post one of the reason the different time zones.
Example on the Naia server plays the peoples from Portugal to Far East Russia it is close to 12 hour time difference.
Next problem is the language many peoples here only just know his own language and here the peoples talk example on Naia server about 20-30 different languages too.
And next of them mostly the players would like to play the peoples who are came from same country as them to they can communicate on our own languages.
Well the problem with as the we want take out from the XP time the maximum so if the XP slowlier cuz one of player just mostly can leech peoples kick of him or don't invite him.
Next of them with some peoples many the problem. They join to pve clans until they will higher level and than they leave it to go to a PVP clan, so this is the reason too why the players here not really XPing with strangers.
Peoples should to use here the Party Matching System if everybody could use it much more time could be easier find party.
In different time zone can be a problem.. but not as much as the difference in language used.
I guess main reason you guys party with one's you know only is probably because of the language barrier.
We don't always play from 6pm till midnight after work. Everybody plays on different time.. So the difference in time zone doesn't seems to be a problem to me.
But the language barrier, must have a big role on how you guys play.
The const party is mostly only on Naia in the few pvp clans. There is a lot of problems with this system. Like for exmple if 1-2 members decide to quit/leave the party ends up breaking because they cant find replacments.
Also many const partys are not relly based on frineds but on just people playing togeter because its the only way to get a party.
The const party is mostly only on Naia in the few pvp clans. There is a lot of problems with this system. Like for exmple if 1-2 members decide to quit/leave the party ends up breaking because they cant find replacments.
Also many const partys are not relly based on frineds but on just people playing togeter because its the only way to get a party.
/Agree,but not only on NAIA,is in all big clans even before merge.
another problem is some people are totally clueless on how to play their classes, when you party with the same people you get a feel for each and can slack a little because you know they won't screw up. When pickup groups still happened I use to die and want to kill the person for being a dumb or giving the wrong buffs wasting mp etc, not healing the tank.
That is why you do not see many random parties we play more serious over here. We killed a lot of the epics with a whole different style of killing then they killed in Korea, we killed Beleth with a lot less people then they did in Korea with different tatics in a lot sooner he was open to do then in Korea.
Time zones play a big role... Korea is all one time zone so even if you play different times its not that varied. NA/Euro plays over 18 different time zones, even people who just play in the NA are in 4 different time zones.
I'd say that's wrong way to play.
I guess it has to do with limited numbers of people within server that could play at the lvl you are playing.
We party based on first come first served base. Regardless how long you've known the person or you just have met him, whoever comes in the matching first is going be in the party until he/she leaves.
When someone is leaving, they cannot just leave though. The person leaving has to wait until the party finds the replacement, so that the party can continuosly hunt. Unless you set time to end party in advance before begin the hunt and all the members agrees to end the party at the set time.
Some parties in good hunting area goes on for more than a day or two some times with constanly replaced members.
I think UA/EA server still has plenty of new people to meet and party with since the server has been merged. Just partying with only ones you know,, in my opinion is what's killing your server.
It's not a "wrong way" to play... it's just a different one. And like many other people, I do enjoy playing this way: you don't work for yourself, but you work for your team. If you get an important loot, it goes for the constant leader who will give it to who needs it the most.
I don't even see how you can do epic with your system...
Also like BoundInPleasure say: you need to know with who you are playing or it can be a mess if you are comming to party with people which don't know much about their classes. Always playing with same member improve your team play too, and team play does much in PvP.
The problem is not constant party: the real problem typical from NA/EU, is that people are self-centered: they would prefer to log a box, instead of inviting a random live player... because "Onoz he's gonna eat my xp !!!" "Onoz he's gonna take my drops !!!" Some people are party themselves ... Don't even understand what they are doing on a MMO...
You don't even see this on RU servers, whereas constant party here is the most encountered game style: you just have to look at orange chat to see ton of people gathering party for FoG/GC/HB. This never happen on NA/EU server.... Even being non-Russian native, I got plenty of party with random people until I found a constant, so I don't think it's a barrier language neither...
Anyways if Korean people like to play with 7 party members, fine. But why we should play the same way ? Why does it bother Korean so much to have 2 remaining slots ? (No one force you to party 2 more members °°).... Why not just improve the experience bonus above 7 group's members ? ...
Honestly I will never understand your developers logic...
They already made decision to reduce party because there will not be many Koreans complaining about that. However due to this decision new bosses and instances were designed around reduced party size as well so to expect that they will redesign game for 9 ppl again is rather naive.
another problem is some people are totally clueless on how to play their classes, when you party with the same people you get a feel for each and can slack a little because you know they won't screw up. When pickup groups still happened I use to die and want to kill the person for being a dumb or giving the wrong buffs wasting mp etc, not healing the tank.
That is why you do not see many random parties we play more serious over here. We killed a lot of the epics with a whole different style of killing then they killed in Korea, we killed Beleth with a lot less people then they did in Korea with different tatics in a lot sooner he was open to do then in Korea.
Time zones play a big role... Korea is all one time zone so even if you play different times its not that varied. NA/Euro plays over 18 different time zones, even people who just play in the NA are in 4 different time zones.
Time zones btw have nothing to do why its all const partys in Naia.
They already made decision to reduce party because there will not be many Koreans complaining about that. However due to this decision new bosses and instances were designed around reduced party size as well so to expect that they will redesign game for 9 ppl again is rather naive.
Yeah and the 60k Russian players' opinion doesn't count at all... sad :/
They already made decision to reduce party because there will not be many Koreans complaining about that. However due to this decision new bosses and instances were designed around reduced party size as well so to expect that they will redesign game for 9 ppl again is rather naive.
Yes I agree just accept the fact and be ready. There are not 60k russians on Naia. Atm max players on both servers is less then 3k.
We killed a lot of the epics with a whole different style of killing then they killed in Korea, we killed Beleth with a lot less people then they did in Korea with different tatics in a lot sooner he was open to do then in Korea.//////
I have to disagree with you.
It's not that we can't finish epic with less people. We can also clear freya with one party. But we try to get as many people enjoy the epci if possible. That's why you see lots of people on many of epic video clips. It's not because we can't, it's because we try to get envolve as many people as possible.
Here comes again.. there.. your.. 'I'.. concept before 'we'.. here..
We think of 'we' before 'I'..
Don't understand how you guys have someone who don't understand their character and masses up.
After playing for a while, you just know your characters and know what to do in the party. Because the way we do, we don't have ANYBODY that don't understand their role in the party. Anybody can replace another.
Because you guys don't let others who's not expereinced try out in party.. you are just keep on getting stuck with limited numbers of people who undrestands.. Can't you see the big picture here?
And I don't understand some of you refering to playing more 'serious' over here. You think we don't play serious?? We do get angry and annoyed too if someone doesn't know their characters. Usually happens when someone totally new takes over another person's account. But instead of ban them, we teach them. So that he/she can do better next time.
Because you guys are limitting to only good players to be in the party,, you can't find the good ones.. got it?
Don't understand how you guys have someone who don't understand their character and masses up.
After playing for a while, you just know your characters and know what to do in the party. Because the way we do, we don't have ANYBODY that don't understand their role in the party. Anybody can replace another.
Because you guys don't let others who's not expereinced try out in party.. you are just keep on getting stuck with limited numbers of people who undrestands.. Can't you see the big picture here?
And I don't understand some of you refering to playing more 'serious' over here. You think we don't play serious?? We do get angry and annoyed too if someone doesn't know their characters. Usually happens when someone totally new takes over another person's account. But instead of ban them, we teach them. So that he/she can do better next time.
Because you guys are limitting to only good players to be in the party,, you can't find the good ones.. got it?
Well. it's my opinion.
There are a few reasons for our party style.
1. We have a very small server population compared to you guys. We have never had gm support and our servers have lost its population due to this. The people who still play are veteran players who have played with the same people for years. Since we have many nationalities and regions all mixed together, its only natural for people in like time zones to seek each other out.
2. We rely heavily on our friends in game for support. The thing you have to understand is our servers have a big problem on scamming, account selling, people cashing out their items/adena for real life cash. The trust between players in this game is earned through long term relationships. Many constant parties are working togehter for a common goal, the members help each other with gear, with xp, with everything. We know that the sws who logs on daily and who has been there for years will always log on, but if we replace him and say "too bad we found this random sws please find another xp party" isnt right either. That person relies on us for xp, as we rely on him. That is why we dont pick up randoms.
Not to mention there arent very many randoms openly hunting for xp parties at end game.
3. The eu/na/ru players are min/maxers. We like to maximize our parties in killing speed and ability. We like to push parties to their limit. Im not saying you dont do this as korean players, this is just higher on our important list than other things, like giving a poor dwarf a party during an antharas raid just to be nice. We dont like wasting time in game, we have goals and we like to achieve them quickly. That is just the nature of our play style.
When you look at how we play L2, you have to consider everything that makes us different. Compare the korean people to russians, euros and americans. We all view things very different in the world, so why would you think we would play this game the same?
You have had policed servers your whole time playing, excellent customer service, and incredible events and other things. We have been left in the dark for years, and the entire game has been dieing a slow death due to it.
Your game experience and environment can not be compared to ours as we truely play 2 different games. It is just as hard for u to relate to our play styles as it is for us to relate to yours. So i dont see how how play styles is wrong, when we clearly see many things that korean players do as wrong too, such as raid techniques and opinions on game content.
Im not say anyone is wrong, you just have to step outside your shoes to understand why we do what we do.
We killed a lot of the epics with a whole different style of killing then they killed in Korea, we killed Beleth with a lot less people then they did in Korea with different tatics in a lot sooner he was open to do then in Korea.//////
I have to disagree with you.
It's not that we can't finish epic with less people. We can also clear freya with one party. But we try to get as many people enjoy the epci if possible. That's why you see lots of people on many of epic video clips. It's not because we can't, it's because we try to get envolve as many people as possible.
Here comes again.. there.. your.. 'I'.. concept before 'we'.. here..
We think of 'we' before 'I'..
We (Gustin Server of North America) killed antharas without a thousand melee bumrushing it.
Why didnt you guys invite "random" mages and archers and kill it like us back in the day? By kiting it around slowed?
Coz you guys didnt come up with that idea, you bum rushed it...
1. We have a very small server population compared to you guys. We have never had gm support and our servers have lost its population due to this. The people who still play are veteran players who have played with the same people for years. Since we have many nationalities and regions all mixed together, its only natural for people in like time zones to seek each other out.
2. We rely heavily on our friends in game for support. The thing you have to understand is our servers have a big problem on scamming, account selling, people cashing out their items/adena for real life cash. The trust between players in this game is earned through long term relationships. Many constant parties are working togehter for a common goal, the members help each other with gear, with xp, with everything. We know that the sws who logs on daily and who has been there for years will always log on, but if we replace him and say "too bad we found this random sws please find another xp party" isnt right either. That person relies on us for xp, as we rely on him. That is why we dont pick up randoms.
Not to mention there arent very many randoms openly hunting for xp parties at end game.
3. The eu/na/ru players are min/maxers. We like to maximize our parties in killing speed and ability. We like to push parties to their limit. Im not saying you dont do this as korean players, this is just higher on our important list than other things, like giving a poor dwarf a party during an antharas raid just to be nice. We dont like wasting time in game, we have goals and we like to achieve them quickly. That is just the nature of our play style.
When you look at how we play L2, you have to consider everything that makes us different. Compare the korean people to russians, euros and americans. We all view things very different in the world, so why would you think we would play this game the same?
You have had policed servers your whole time playing, excellent customer service, and incredible events and other things. We have been left in the dark for years, and the entire game has been dieing a slow death due to it.
Your game experience and environment can not be compared to ours as we truely play 2 different games. It is just as hard for u to relate to our play styles as it is for us to relate to yours. So i dont see how how play styles is wrong, when we clearly see many things that korean players do as wrong too, such as raid techniques and opinions on game content.
Im not say anyone is wrong, you just have to step outside your shoes to understand why we do what we do.
Edit: sorry for any typos, im on an iphone
I don't think anyone could have said it better than that...
We play very different versions of Lineage 2. There aren't enough 'worthwhile' random encounters to make to make partying random people successful. It is a shame actually. I've played games like that before where you here a shout for a raid or a levelling party and you respond to them, then race to their location.
Then you spend the next few hours playing with people you've never even seen before. Trusting that the healer you've never known will keep you all alive. That the other players will cooperate with you and that things will progress. Some of the people you meet you will either never meet again or you may even form long-lasting in-game friendships with.
This is not the game NC Soft west has created... It may have started that way but after years of neglect the above scenario is almost impossible now. The Western game has all but withered and died. From 10 or so servers down to 2. Server populations of people who simply don't 'really' know each other, and because of general feeling and how things are at end-game, probably don't want to.
The people left are just still in love with the game. To get any kind of enjoyment from it, they need to respect and trust the few relationships they developed as the game declined over the years.
Just as you don't want your trust in your party betrayed, neither do your friends. You can't make random parties simply because there aren't enough in the first place.
Despite what the actual 'truth' may be from NC Soft West's side, imagine if you will playing a game where you there is the distinct feeling that the people you pay for this experience, do not care if you actually enjoy it or not.
Imagine if that is how you and almost everyone you bump into in game feels about things.... Then you might understand how the atmosphere of our game is so cold outside the warmth of the few trusted friends you've made...
Compared to Korean Lineage 2 retail, our game is similar to a post apocalyptic future like Terminator 2 or Mad Max! Any drastic change to the game could just as easily make even those who truly love it, leave it rather than adapt.
Korean L2 retail is like a magical dream to most of us here. I think you simply can not understand...
You have no idea why they have lvl up the anthars and valakas do you?
or has it not been lvl up here yet?
In Korea, the antha and Vala are now almost impossible to beat even with full party. I am talking about 150+ people. all lvl above 83 and up with most of them with full element enchant.
because before it was lvl'd up we raid them so easilly and was not even a challenge any more. Most PvP clan used to take out antha with 2 party.
(PvE clan rarely gets a chance to raid them.) It was just an earth worm that we've been squashing when regened.
Korean GM had to make it harder.
I don't know what you are refering to, but probably you are refering to one of the very old video clips. And don't forget.. we have many servers.. maybe you came across the one that was really bad.
On our servers there are really only few pure PVE clans, where are only few ppl ussually. We of course have clans(players) who take the game more "serious" and are mostly pvp oriented but every bigger clan have it's own clanwars and enemies. And you as member of that smaller clan simply can't go xp with random ppl because of your enemies :). They usually don't let you xp peacefully and also you want pvp from time to time as it is big part of the game.
So then you have to find party within the alliance (as alliance usually share wars) and day after day you will get more or less same people, because your playing time, communication, .. suits. And then voila .. const is created :). That's the way we play.
Nobody said but these "constants" are also made by players that share accs so they can always have their "support" classes avaiable without the risk of being reported.
I dislike the party size reduction, its just one more reason to make people complain cause they can't get parties.
In another word, Let's say if you earn 100k xp on a mob now, you will earn additional bonus xps as follows;
# of members......... xps per mob .........xps per mob
in party ..................before H5............ after H5
1. ...........................100,000 ...............207,000
2. ...........................65,000 .................114,000
3. ...........................46,000 ..................83,000
4. ...........................38,000 ..................67,000
5. ...........................31,000 ..................58,000
6. ...........................26,000 ..................52,000
7. ...........................23,000 .................59,000:D
8. ...........................21,000 ..................54,000
9. ...........................19,000 ..................51,000:(
its always amusing to see how people simply ignoring a major fact in the equation. -> time
7 man parties are not more effective as 9 man parties (if you play at limit)
9 man parties kill faster, period.
if a 9 man group kills a train in 30 secs (assuming you do AOE) and the 7 man party needs 45 secs and the train consists of lets say 20 mobs each that give 100k each after 20 minutes (lets say you need 15 secs to pull) you have done the following number of trains:
9 man party: 1200 seconds / 45 secs = 26,6 trains => 26,6 x 20 mobs x 51k XP = 27,19 million XP per party member.
7 man party: 1200 seconds / 60 secs = 20 trains => 20 x 20 mobs x 59k xp = 23,6 million XP per party member.
any questions?
this ofc means that each participant speeds up the killing process, if you say SE/EE and Cardinal do niot speed it up then remove those from party if you want and see how long you live on the train :) (pointing back at initioal condition "if you play at limit")
I only can agree with everybody else here especially hyperlite.
We do NOT have a pool of players we can rely on. The party matching system does not work at all.
Our Const party has been looking for a DC and a SD for months now, every member in our const party is a treasure in aspects of
reliability
skill
character (I mean friendship)
the average random player you take in your party lacks in 90% of all cases at least in 2 of thos aspects.
We form constants here because you just CANT kick those ppl out of your party and take one of the other 100, because there ain't any. Finding such a person is blessing and the person gets in return rewarded with finding 8 other persons that fit in playtimes, language and other characteristics.
Playing here is more like a pro soccer / basketball team. Imagine reducing top soccer team from 11 -> 9 by law... that wouldn't make much sense would it ...
I'm very sad that I will have to move on to another game when GoD comes out. A game where I can play together with ALL of my "game buddies"
its always amusing to see how people simply ignoring a major fact in the equation. -> time
7 man parties are not more effective as 9 man parties (if you play at limit)
9 man parties kill faster, period.
if a 9 man group kills a train in 30 secs (assuming you do AOE) and the 7 man party needs 45 secs and the train consists of lets say 20 mobs each that give 100k each after 20 minutes (lets say you need 15 secs to pull) you have done the following number of trains:
9 man party: 1200 seconds / 45 secs = 26,6 trains => 26,6 x 20 mobs x 51k XP = 27,19 million XP per party member.
7 man party: 1200 seconds / 60 secs = 20 trains => 20 x 20 mobs x 59k xp = 23,6 million XP per party member.
any questions?
this ofc means that each participant speeds up the killing process, if you say SE/EE and Cardinal do niot speed it up then remove those from party if you want and see how long you live on the train :) (pointing back at initioal condition "if you play at limit")
Exactly ... +1!
I don't get why Koreans base their party size on maximum bonus exp gain instead of maximum killing speed...
You have no idea why they have lvl up the anthars and valakas do you?
or has it not been lvl up here yet?
In Korea, the antha and Vala are now almost impossible to beat even with full party. I am talking about 150+ people. all lvl above 83 and up with most of them with full element enchant.
because before it was lvl'd up we raid them so easilly and was not even a challenge any more. Most PvP clan used to take out antha with 2 party.
(PvE clan rarely gets a chance to raid them.) It was just an earth worm that we've been squashing when regened.
Korean GM had to make it harder.
I don't know what you are refering to, but probably you are refering to one of the very old video clips. And don't forget.. we have many servers.. maybe you came across the one that was really bad.
I could care less what your GM's/Developers did with Antharas/Valakas. The fact is you guys raided it improperly at the time.
So dont try to come here and say you guys play the game better than us because you invite randoms and teach ppl how to play.
You won't be able to get westerners to play this game the korean way, there is way too much pvp here to let that happen.
its always amusing to see how people simply ignoring a major fact in the equation. -> time
7 man parties are not more effective as 9 man parties (if you play at limit)
9 man parties kill faster, period.
if a 9 man group kills a train in 30 secs (assuming you do AOE) and the 7 man party needs 45 secs and the train consists of lets say 20 mobs each that give 100k each after 20 minutes (lets say you need 15 secs to pull) you have done the following number of trains:
9 man party: 1200 seconds / 45 secs = 26,6 trains => 26,6 x 20 mobs x 51k XP = 27,19 million XP per party member.
7 man party: 1200 seconds / 60 secs = 20 trains => 20 x 20 mobs x 59k xp = 23,6 million XP per party member.
any questions?
this ofc means that each participant speeds up the killing process, if you say SE/EE and Cardinal do niot speed it up then remove those from party if you want and see how long you live on the train :) (pointing back at initioal condition "if you play at limit")
You do realize that someeone could make up their own numbers and have the math in their favor?
Or do you have videos to back up your claims?
And what spot are you pulling, that lets u pull it in 15 sec, and its magically respawned when u are done killing them?
its always amusing to see how people simply ignoring a major fact in the equation. -> time
7 man parties are not more effective as 9 man parties (if you play at limit)
9 man parties kill faster, period.
if a 9 man group kills a train in 30 secs (assuming you do AOE) and the 7 man party needs 45 secs and the train consists of lets say 20 mobs each that give 100k each after 20 minutes (lets say you need 15 secs to pull) you have done the following number of trains:
9 man party: 1200 seconds / 45 secs = 26,6 trains => 26,6 x 20 mobs x 51k XP = 27,19 million XP per party member.
7 man party: 1200 seconds / 60 secs = 20 trains => 20 x 20 mobs x 59k xp = 23,6 million XP per party member.
any questions?
this ofc means that each participant speeds up the killing process, if you say SE/EE and Cardinal do niot speed it up then remove those from party if you want and see how long you live on the train :) (pointing back at initioal condition "if you play at limit")
You are simply ignoring one important thing on your equation. Mobs respawn.
Most places at l2 have **** respawn rate that can simple kills any 9 man party xp/h. Makes no sence to kill faster just to stay sitted wating 1 ~ 3 minuts till all the mobs respawn so you can start killing again. Its a lot more effective to kill non stop with 4~6 people than to stop due to overkills.
You are simply ignoring one important thing on your equation. Mobs respawn.
Most places at l2 have **** respawn rate that can simple kills any 9 man party xp/h. Makes no sence to kill faster just to stay sitted wating 1 ~ 3 minuts till all the mobs respawn so you can start killing again. Its a lot more effective to kill non stop with 4~6 people than to stop due to overkills.
thats the reason, why our const party only has two highlvl spot for lvling properly... all other 80+ spots are already doable with 2man party so your argument is futile to, just reduce party size to 2persons and give out free buff until lvl 99
Wth are you talking about? I never said im in favor to reduce the party size nor used my explanation as argument in favor of it. Just showing our friend how ATM is pointless to have such big party in MOST l2 spots, even the ones "made" for 9 man parties. I like the option to have more people in party, i would prefer more well designed areas then this **** size reduction.
lets say for example stakato nest, you take 2 attached rooms to each other and pull left and right in cycle. you have unlimited spawn this way.
same in Fog, same in wherever you go.
i said if you play at limit, not pulling 1 catacomb room lol.
if you say "we are imba and pull both rooms" then i just have to say "GL with maximum AOE hit limit" the needed time per train will increase dramatically, and you will have partial respawn while youre still on the inital train which is just stupid.
ofc you can shift numbers on your behalf, but the xp bonus is so close that it actually means no difference counted up on 20 minutes playtime.
reduce a nuker group by 2 participants, what do you remove to hit 7 partymemeber hmm?
1 nuker? -> -(25-30)% killspeed
the SD? -> -(20-30)% killspeed
the SWS? -> increased pulling time, plus decresed survivability/mana supply
the recharger? yea seems fine for exp, but you dont want to have pvp without a second rez
the healer? -> LOL
the buffer? yea thanks, and i exp solo after 2 hours of oop buffing or what?
the difference between 9 man and 7 man group is 8k exp on a mob that giv es 100k initial exp thats absolutely nothing and totally worthless to be even mentioned as an argument.
if you already used to play with 7 people +2 boxed then its fine. but then you have been playing with a crippled setup all the time and have no idea on the gain of a full 9 man live played party which can do way more than a half active filled up with boxed party.
however you reduce the party setup you always could add 2 DDs to the party to reach 9 in any case this will dramatically speed up your killing.
there is ALWAYS a spot that gives you enough respawn to hit your capacity limit so if you go to less effective spots to validize the effectiveness of a 7 man party ... nvm stay in fog until 85 if you want i step up to stakato/citadel/SOA and still do more exp with my 9 man group as you do with your 7 man group.
in the end believe what you want :) but you cannot neutralize the fact that 7 man are always less effective than 9 according to the mentioned bonus table.
KJ you forgot those numbers were taken from Korea and most likely due to server population they can't take 2 rooms. They have to end up with one. So killing faster doesn't make any sense.
Also don't attack him because he is used to a different playstyle. I mean in Korea HRP's are most common buffers while here they are complete underdogs because our players goes all the way for efficiency. In the end average Korean player ends up leveling way faster than our average player just due the way they play. I'm not saying your perfect parties are slower, they are not, but remember you are not only ones playing in the server.
if you say "we are imba and pull both rooms" then i just have to say "GL with maximum AOE hit limit" the needed time per train will increase dramatically, and you will have partial respawn while youre still on the inital train which is just stupid.
i saw stacked WL in stakato (only WL hit mobs - other guy just pull second room) that kill 2 rooms hardest mobs in less than 1 dances/sings...
Seriously i find this stupid, in this system u get max with 7 people, when a party can hold 9, that's volunteerly ditching 2 additional people.
When u make a concept to have as much people to enjoy the game as u can, wouldn't u think they should put max xp bonus at NINE people and not just the few lucky 7 ?
So change it, if this concept is for the game to have more people in party and make people more social , then the max xp should be at 9 and NOT at 7!
Some groups are already deciding wich ones they will ditch because they have 9 man constants, even in difficult grounds the ones that gonna get kicked out are the following classes : Prophets (no supsrise) Doomcryers (like it is already now) and also swordmuses and Dominators ...
come on make the game more social and not LESS social!
Few of ther people have already pointed out what really happens so I won't try to argue with you. and I've already metioned some area, still 9 members are needed. I never said it's ALWAYS 7 now.
Smittie ////
I never said we play better. You are the one who's trying to emphasis that you guys play better it seems. you brought up about the epics when you don't even really know how we play.. :o
I am not going to be able to say who's better until I play on both styles. I cannot say who's style is more efficient and better on epic until try on both style. You somehow seem to know to tell already when you haven't played with us.
There must be something we could learn from you guys, which I am trying to do right now. And there must be something you guys can learn from us.
It seems ou are just saying you are better so that you don't have to listen to me.
I don't have to do all that I do now you know.
The whole purpose is to eliminate discrimination among classes.
Most of us prefers Orc fighters or duelist in hunting party. Dwarves will have less chance of becoming a party member if the others are available. SE is very rarely chosen to be in the party when EE has chain skill of SE.
When the classes are reduced to 8, it eliminates that discrimination.
Someone asking back how 8 can be fit it 7.. are you serious.. you can't figure that out.. wizzard and warriors usually don't party together you know..
i just thought it should be mentioned.
you could say on regular exp parties below 80 7 man parties are more effective (also if you prefer playing in a relaxed way) but in high end spots where you play at limit, a full setup not only decides over successful plaing or being defeated by mobs but also means max effectiveness in full party.
no problem with that at all :D
i have to admit i did not read all posts in detail so if you mentioned it already its fine.
just wanted to prevent the assumption that 9 man parties are generally less effective in h5 XP wise.
PS: i like the reduction to 7 man groups in GOD though, this will shift the ratio between classes to a higher availablity of support (both healers and enchanters) since the classes are combined you definately need 1-2 less enchanters per party and could even reduce to 1 healer while still having 4 DDs.
The current situation in almost all clans is a DD overlow this is gonna be fixed by that.
It's a clear difference in mentality of different regions. Korea is still their main market this highest number of players so what they develop they look at what they like and want.
To be honest one of the reasons why our servers are lacking population is our own mentality. Not favoring Korean one too much but ours is really flawed. I mean if you take castles for example. Power clan will take it on alt clan not because they need it but because they can. Or will come and ruin lower level/gear players just because they can.(not to mention pathetic PvP software and clan leaders that tells to use this software for their clan members they like it or not)
The only thing I'm really not happy about of GoD is cutting all the classes to 8 and removing old skills which made those classes unique. You can even make party of 5 and I will be happy but I'm really not the fan of loosing my class.
U guys all talk about "effectiveness " and playstyle and wich class better then another ...
None of u talk about fun, it's a game u know ? where's the fun in locking people out ? even mages like some company sometimes and i'm sorry but in anny AOE group a mage is certainly a huge DD factor"!
Once more , abolish the 7 man thing and raise it up to 9 man party, full is always better then half or 2/3 full.
No matter how u turn it , even if its just to level up u'r box, be smart.
U guys all talk about "effectiveness " and playstyle and wich class better then another ...
None of u talk about fun, it's a game u know ? where's the fun in locking people out ? even mages like some company sometimes and i'm sorry but in anny AOE group a mage is certainly a huge DD factor"!
Once more , abolish the 7 man thing and raise it up to 9 man party, full is always better then half or 2/3 full.
No matter how u turn it , even if its just to level up u'r box, be smart.
ever thought about the possibility that "effectiveness" means fun to certain people?
not that i say i dont enjoy company in any game ofc i do, else i would play tetris.
but i would like to choose my partymember and dont take anyone just cos there "is a spot free".
i mean i am actually a contant partyplayer anyway but that doesnt mean if one DD from my const is missing i would take anyone (that has maybe also damage penalty on the spots we play/is too poor equipped/ cant play his class) just to fill up?
for example yesterday I was killing top floor MoS faster then respawn with as DD's SwM(85) FS(81) & Meastro(84) with DC(83) as crazy puller so meh.. the SD(81) would have loved to hit mobs as well if not for the fact he just blew up his duals..
I still think restriction on amount of players that can be part of a party should be left with said party.. it's really up to the party if they're willing to take less xp/adena over having more ppl inside imo
What people forget that in this update there willl be only 8 class. So a party will not need ee/se and a cardi since 1 class does both and bd/sws and buffer is 1 class.
So party set up will be Healer,enchanter,DD,DD,DD,Tank,mb 2nd healer or DD.
Thanks for keep posting lots helpful stuff destructor :) I think percents are off though if our patch notes are right, correct me if Im wrong (below). Still, your point is right with 7 as optimum size for the base bonus, of course other factors come into it as always. Im neither against or for party size change in god I'll take what I get.
Pretty sure thats right lemme know if a mistake in there or worked it out wrong. Always thought simply worked out by: (Mob XP * (1 + Party Bonus)) / Number of Players. Um probably shud mention use Party Bonus as a decimal (eg: 30% = 0.3, 110% = 1.1). For party size 7/8/9 there is a slight difference in the decimals I just rounded to help it be easier to read and the difference between them seems less than 0.1 anyway.
First time Ive bothered to actually work it out the changes to party xp, and sadly doesnt end up as much of a change as originally thought by looking at only the percents :( However I read the meaning/purpose as the same, slightly discourage small 3-4 parties (mainly targetted at oop buffers n watever I guess) and encourage fullsize 7-9 parties.
But its only a very small change anyways by the end... if my working out was correct. And mainly - looking forward to the 78+ mob xp increase, and reduced xp needed per level for 78+ :)
DISCLAIMER: No ingame tests done or anything so its possible the party xp gets worked out in some different (perhaps kooky) way... with the lineage luck system as an example, anything is possible lol
Relly who cares since most const its not relly about fun but about trying to win in pvp.
And all stop the BS most partys relly are not based on any frindships.
This is how its going to be 7 ppl party. QQ here is not going change anything ncsoft does in korea so accept the fact and move on.
Nothing is a fact yet about God chronicle, its not even out on pts till the year is over in korea.
And koreans themselves are not so pleased about this either, just go check the korean forums and throw them in translator , they actually says the same things i do, its a totally a-social formation.
/////I could care less what your GM's/Developers did with Antharas/Valakas. The fact is you guys raided it improperly at the time.
So dont try to come here and say you guys play the game better than us because you invite randoms and teach ppl how to play.
You won't be able to get westerners to play this game the korean way, there is way too much pvp here to let that happen. ///////////
Since you brought it up, let me ask you, do you guys kill extream freya on H4?? we killed it on very first day when it was patched.
We now regularlly do extream freya for elgegia weapons.
Before the update on anthy and valakas, they were a joke to us. Like I said on previous reply, they weren't even a challenge.
But now after the update on them, they only been killed about 3,4 times.
Don't try to say we are improper when you don't know how we play.
I could care less what your GM's/Developers did with Antharas/Valakas. The fact is you guys raided it improperly at the time.
So dont try to come here and say you guys play the game better than us because you invite randoms and teach ppl how to play.
You won't be able to get westerners to play this game the korean way, there is way too much pvp here to let that happen.
Smittie ///
Since you brought it up, let me ask you, do you guys kill extream freya on H4?? we killed it on very first day when it was patched.
We now regularlly do extream freya for elgegia weapons.
Before the update on anthy and valakas, they were a joke to us. Like I said on previous reply, they weren't even a challenge.
But now after the update on them, they only been killed about 3,4 times.
Don't try to say we are improper when you don't know how we play.
Like I said, we try to get as many people as possible get invloved not because we don't know how efficiently kill it, we just want everybody to enjoy the epic.
By the way if what you mean is proof, search our forums for highly oe'd elegia weapons. We already have couple of 16+ elegia weapons on couple of servers. since they can only be acquired by extream freya for now.. that should be your proof.
I'll get you a screen shot of a 12+ elegia weapon that is opted(again.. only can get by killing extream freya for now since anthy and valakas are almost impossible to kill now.) that my friends has.
I just need to figure out how to post my screen shots from my computer.
I tried to post a screen shot of our giran the other day as per request of someone, I failed to do so.. I was keep on getting a message that my file is too big.
i'm actually more interested in the action part then the weapons .
Wanna see how u'r handling it. Love to see a good team at work:rolleyes:
Extream Freya is done by the PvP clans only and so far each clans have different tactics strategies. They don't share video clips with others.
I am no longer in the PvP clan. But again, only way to get the elegia weapons is the extream freya at the moment. That's why I want to show you the weapons at least.
PvE clans are about 60~70% and rest are PvP clans in Korea.
Extream Freya is done by the PvP clans only and so far each clans have different tactics strategies. They don't share video clips with others.
I am no longer in the PvP clan. But again, only way to get the elegia weapons is the extream freya at the moment. That's why I want to show you the weapons at least.
PvE clans are about 60~70% and rest are PvP clans in Korea.
Why only pvp clans kill it? freya is a instance so any one can do it.
/////I could care less what your GM's/Developers did with Antharas/Valakas. The fact is you guys raided it improperly at the time.
So dont try to come here and say you guys play the game better than us because you invite randoms and teach ppl how to play.
You won't be able to get westerners to play this game the korean way, there is way too much pvp here to let that happen. ///////////
Since you brought it up, let me ask you, do you guys kill extream freya on H4?? we killed it on very first day when it was patched.
We now regularlly do extream freya for elgegia weapons.
Before the update on anthy and valakas, they were a joke to us. Like I said on previous reply, they weren't even a challenge.
But now after the update on them, they only been killed about 3,4 times.
Don't try to say we are improper when you don't know how we play.
You are discovering the mentality of a lot of players here I think, thinking they play better than others (It's not against you Smittie)
Why only pvp clans kill it? freya is a instance so any one can do it.
PvE clans are more kind of easy going and are less concerned on their oe on skills and elemental enchants on armors. PvE clans have no problem killing normal freya with one party. But extream, most of them don't think they are ready and don't even want to try out.
On the other hand, PvP clan.. just like you guys, to have advantage over their opponents, they will do whatever it takes to get the best available.
Because only 30% to 40% are PvP clan, don't think there aren't that many PvP clans and players. We have 30 servers. And we move around the servers to PvP even to aid other clans some times. I myself have changed server 5 times. My old PvP clan had more than 500 members.
I am just no longer intersted in PvP.
Oh, by the way, after the GoD update, there's going to be server battle in korea. One server can invade another and the other has to defend and takes turn.. :D
Since you brought it up, let me ask you, do you guys kill extream freya on H4?? we killed it on very first day when it was patched.
We now regularlly do extream freya for elgegia weapons.
Before the update on anthy and valakas, they were a joke to us. Like I said on previous reply, they weren't even a challenge.
But now after the update on them, they only been killed about 3,4 times.
Don't try to say we are improper when you don't know how we play.
Like I said, we try to get as many people as possible get invloved not because we don't know how efficiently kill it, we just want everybody to enjoy the epic.
I kill extreme freya all by myself, 9 boxing.
Since I dont want my secret way of doing it to get out, I sadly cannot show you any proof :(
/end sarcasm
Bottom line, Bum Rushing Antharas. You guys failed hardcore, so get off your high horse.
Oh, by the way, after the GoD update, there's going to be server battle in korea. One server can invade another and the other has to defend and takes turn.. :D
I'm waiting that since Gracia update D/ Did you get any info, screens or something ?
Since I dont want my secret way of doing it to get out, I sadly cannot show you any proof :(
/end sarcasm
Bottom line, Bum Rushing Antharas. You guys failed hardcore, so get off your high horse.
You really think you are special, don't you?
I said I'm going to show the screen shot of the elegia weapons at least. Explain to me how else you can get it other than from extream freya?
I bet you are one of those person who always answer a question wrong because you don't read through even though you know the answer.
If you read my therad CAREFULLY, you will realized how dumb you are by posting this reply.
And, if you don't appreciate what I am trying to share with, don't even bother read it and try to post a reply here. It isn't for you.
I don't have to come back here.. don't make me.
Acutally they had to change Valkahas in NA/Euro cause it was being done with two people not even 2 parties lol
2 people would farm the fire dragon every time it spawned. Many of the exploits are found in NA and hence cause korea to change them. NA always looks for the way around things and how to exploit any system in place lol
I still don't get why people are crying over the party size. If the 2 'extra' can't find another party or constant by GoD, isn't it truly fail on our server(s) population+ the 'insecurity' in us not willing to give 'new' people a go is holding us back? Include the fact that you will no longer have to look for a specific class from the 35 classes to form a functional+effective group. Make new friends ffs, isnt that why you play mmo rather than single player games?
@Destructor Thx so much for your time and effort. You can also ignore Smittie :p
You really think you are special, don't you?
I said I'm going to show the screen shot of the elegia weapons at least. Explain to me how else you can get it other than from extream freya?
I bet you are one of those person who always answer a question wrong because you don't read through even though you know the answer.
If you read my therad CAREFULLY, you will realized how dumb you are by posting this reply.
And, if you don't appreciate what I am trying to share with, don't even bother read it and try to post a reply here. It isn't for you.
I don't have to come back here.. don't make me.
Trying to share lol.
You come here telling us we play the game wrong coz we dont party randoms.
Destructor, korea killed extreme freya before the nerf that high 5 brought? Last i knew or heard no one could kill the dragons or extreme freya before high 5.
Once the nerf to both came in high 5 on korea, they were done.
Only reason i ask is you make extreme freya sound like its farmed by numerous clans, but we havent even gotten high 5 yet... (any part of it)
Destructor, korea killed extreme freya before the nerf that high 5 brought? Last i knew or heard no one could kill the dragons or extreme freya before high 5.
Once the nerf to both came in high 5 on korea, they were done.
Only reason i ask is you make extreme freya sound like its farmed by numerous clans, but we havent even gotten high 5 yet... (any part of it)
We couldn't and still can't kill the dragons. They have not been nerfed yet.
There were groups of people (not all from same clan) tried out on the extream freya when it was available for the very first day. one party per server, so there were 30 groups that tried. It was before H5 when it was available for the first time. and few of those groups managed to kill the extream freya and all were rewarded with the elegia lvl weapons.
Like I said on very first trial.
Since I dont want my secret way of doing it to get out, I sadly cannot show you any proof :(
/end sarcasm
Bottom line, Bum Rushing Antharas. You guys failed hardcore, so get off your high horse.
I'm going to fail Premo Prime with an army of lvl 1 traders, fraps it and post it on YouTube, to show how your server, Smittie, fails at PvE. Actually, I've already done it in C4, but forgot to fraps it :rolleyes:
Destroctur just dont give a **** in what smitie and others nab are telling...Thnx for infos and all!!! Btw a lot of clans in Eu.Us Servers pve AFTER they had read infos about the bosses from Korea Japan etc...So you can understand!:P
PvE clans are more kind of easy going and are less concerned on their oe on skills and elemental enchants on armors. PvE clans have no problem killing normal freya with one party. But extream, most of them don't think they are ready and don't even want to try out.
On the other hand, PvP clan.. just like you guys, to have advantage over their opponents, they will do whatever it takes to get the best available.
hmm hmm, u think ?
u be surprised to see the gear of my clan then, we have a couple +16's i myself am using a + 7 AM 300 holy, and i'm just a Cardianl i don't even need that .
Here's me before my 17+ vespor turned into .. you know... :(:(
All verry nice but who says this is not an image from PTS ?
Everyone can make those on PTS...
hmm hmm, u think ?
u be surprised to see the gear of my clan then, we have a couple +16's i myself am using a + 7 AM 300 holy, and i'm just a Cardianl i don't even need that .
You understand that I'm talking about people in Korea.. right?
I also mentioned that normal PvE clan also can clear up normal Freay with one party too. It's not that they don't have good gears or they don't oe their skills.
The normal PvE clan people also has very good gears and good oe'ed skills. just not as extream as of those in PvP clans.
Most PvE players would be satisfied with 900 element enchants on armor where PvP player will go all the way to 1800. (doen'st mean all PvE would be happy with 900 ee on armors. many would go for full 1800 too.)
I myself is in PvE clan now and no longer intersted in PvP, but has all 6+ novel vesper armor set with 1600 elements enchant.
Many PvE would go for 300 element on weapon while many are still happy with 150 elements, where all PvP players will only use 300 elements weapons. Many times multiple same type weapons with different elements.
The PvE wouldn't go extream simply they don't feel it's necessary yet. where the PvP clan will go extream to be on top, to maintain their power.
Many of PvE players are very strong too,. When some PvP clans bullies around too much on PvE people, many occations it happened that PvE people will make an alliance to drive that PvP clan out of the server. What our PvE clans enjoys wasn't given free. PvE fought back and earned the freedom and peace. Like I said PvE population on our server is more than half. about 60% to 70%.
Now it bring back the another issue I was mentioning on another thread.
PvE and PvP has totally different interests on our servers. that's just it.
it sounds pretty *easy* to OE weapons in Korea compared to NA/EU, rly ...
but this wouldn't be the only difference.
Btw Tx destructor for giving us some time.
Indeed koreans and western people play L2 differently, but too often western boys forget L2 is a korean game designed for koreans, by koreans ...
we still enjoy it, even if we dont really play it as designed to ^^
and your views on things are allways appreciated (guys pls remember how those 2 koreans helped out on elliebelly)
it sounds pretty *easy* to OE weapons in Korea compared to NA/EU, rly ...
but this wouldn't be the only difference.
Btw Tx destructor for giving us some time.
Indeed koreans and western people play L2 differently, but too often western boys forget L2 is a korean game designed for koreans, by koreans ...
we still enjoy it, even if we dont really play it as designed to ^^
and your views on things are allways appreciated (guys pls remember how those 2 koreans helped out on elliebelly)
It's never easy. It's all same as is here.
Only few of the lucky ones will be able to get up to that oe on weapons.
I didn't oe mine. After failing and failing many times. I just saved up the adens and bought it from someone else.
Hard to find a terrible one since we give chance to all. most of all the players I play with are very good. Almost most people completely understands their toons and role in the party.
well what i mean destructor about OEing weapons is that we have not your kind of BEWS that ensure not to loose current OE lvl
(or i'm wrong with what i think you guys got ?)
well what i mean destructor about OEing weapons is that we have not your kind of BEWS that ensure not to loose current OE lvl
(or i'm wrong with what i think you guys got ?)
What are you talking about? If you fail you know what your weapon becomes. we have the same system you have.
If you fail, that's it for that weapon. it's gone. That's why I no longer have my 17+ vespor weapon. I got durnk and enchanted on one night.. next morning I found myself without having any weapon to use.
well what i mean destructor about OEing weapons is that we have not your kind of BEWS that ensure not to loose current OE lvl
(or i'm wrong with what i think you guys got ?)
I think the only thing they have extra is the items which increase the OE chance (which go into the extra slot at the bottom of the enchant window). We do not have those on our servers.
I think the only thing they have extra is the items which increase the OE chance (which go into the extra slot at the bottom of the enchant window). We do not have those on our servers.
Yes. which is extreamly hard to get and very expensive.. and it doesnt guarantee the success. Many times as equal or more expensive than the weapon itself.
i still dont get how u get those weapons so enchanted...
i think on Naia server max enchant on vesper weapon is like +11
u also have that item that increase succes rate on enchant by100% like on Russian official?
As you can see, the old servers with a high population like Teon or Franz have far more overenchanted weapons than the servers which opened later, like Lilith or Tiat (at the bottom of the table).
The whole purpose is to eliminate discrimination among classes.
Most of us prefers Orc fighters or duelist in hunting party. Dwarves will have less chance of becoming a party member if the others are available. SE is very rarely chosen to be in the party when EE has chain skill of SE.
When the classes are reduced to 8, it eliminates that discrimination.
I don't see how forcing 2 of 3 enchanters out of their existing parties while keeping all the DDs in is not the discrimination against the enchanter archetype.
Someone asking back how 8 can be fit it 7.. are you serious.. you can't figure that out.. wizzard and warriors usually don't party together you know..
WTS sarcasm detector.
NCsoft could not manage to keep the balance between the whole DD archetypes (nukers, warriors, daggers, archers) before, what makes you think NCsoft will achieve it this time?
I didn't read through everything but I disagree with the people that says no one ptys. Sure I always ask in clan for people to join first then ally, but if I have spots to fill then I go to pty matching or hero shout.
I see people making pick up groups all the time in GC. This is one way I make new friends add them to my list and then I'll ask them when I need people in the future. I don't ever have parties going on for days but I can keep a constant party most of the time I'm in game unless its at a werid hr.
Sometimes I don't feel like making a grp so I just join someone elses pick up group as well.
I feel more people invite se to a pty than an ee if they already have a cardi in grp. Most se's have clairty after 76 now, but thats on NA server.
I think dwarves get shafted but not nearly as much as mages or archers. most parties in NA seem melee based and theyll tell archers and mages that they should be soloing.
I don't see how forcing 2 of 3 enchanters out of their existing parties while keeping all the DDs in is not the discrimination against the enchanter archetype.
Enchanters don't have parties? Go find or make one... Do you really need to be taught that? lol
Enchanters don't have parties? Go find or make one... Do you really need to be taught that? lol
Where would you get those new lvl85+ DDs to fill that parties, lol?
You will need 3 times more DDs than there is now if you want every enchanter to have their own party (and every other such DD will have a boxed enchanter anyway lol).
I'm going to fail Premo Prime with an army of lvl 1 traders, fraps it and post it on YouTube, to show how your server, Smittie, fails at PvE. Actually, I've already done it in C4, but forgot to fraps it :rolleyes:
I don't see how forcing 2 of 3 enchanters out of their existing parties while keeping all the DDs in is not the discrimination against the enchanter archetype.
WTS sarcasm detector.
NCsoft could not manage to keep the balance between the whole DD archetypes (nukers, warriors, daggers, archers) before, what makes you think NCsoft will achieve it this time?
Once again, you raise that question because you only party with only ones you know. When in party randomly, there's no point of asking this question. You are thinking of those TWO PEOPLE you been playing with for long time. Here we go again.. going back to the loop again. It's because of your play style and the way you party, you have problem when we don't.
What is WTS, again, I don't know some of the terminology you guys use.
Once again, you raise that question because you only party with only ones you know.
I party everyone. Even people from different top PvP clans (not all of them in the same party at the same time, obviously).
When in party randomly, there's no point of asking this question. You are thinking of those TWO PEOPLE you been playing with for long time. Here we go again.. going back to the loop again. It's because of your play style and the way you party, you have problem when we don't.
Constantly or randomly, the DD to Enchanter ratio in the better parties doesn't change. Now it's, say, 4:3. In GoD it will be 4:1. Where will all those "extra" 3-1=2 enchanters go? Where will they find the DDs for their parties?
What is WTS, again, I don't know some of the terminology you guys use.
"Want to sell"
Constantly or randomly, the DD to Enchanter ratio in the better parties doesn't change. Now it's, say, 4:3. In GoD it will be 4:1. Where will all those "extra" 3-1=2 enchanters go? Where will they find the DDs for their parties?
How do you know the ratio? and even if you do know the ratio, it's questionable only if all of them logs on the game and logs off at same time.. and if there's restriction of limited parties at same time and they all have to be hunting at same time. It just doesn't happen that way.
And how do you also know if some of the enchanters wouldn't change the class??
I understand your concern, but it shouldn't be a problem if you are used to party randomly.
How do you know the ratio?
Since at least C3, if not earlier, you need a buffer, an Sws and a BD for a good party to perform. All the high-level locations were designed with this party setup in mind. The group vs. group PvP encounters were designed with this setup in mind as well. That means that over more than the last 5 years the game has been coercing servers into populations with high enchanter ratio.
Now, suddenly, the servers will need 3 times less enchanters... or 3 times more DDs.
and even if you do know the ratio, it's questionable only if all of them logs on the game and logs off at same time.. and if there's restriction of limited parties at same time and they all have to be hunting at same time.
It doesn't matter. If you don't have a buffer, you don't go anythere. If you then don't have a BD, you don't go anythere but "solo" spots. If you then don't have an SwS, you either don't go to the good spots at all, or utilize them not to their full potential. And it doesn't matter when they log or if they log at all.
And how do you also know if some of the enchanters wouldn't change the class??
I don't see a good implementation of such class change. There are too many details, each of whose may make people feel cheated by NCsoft.
Since at least C3, if not earlier, you need a buffer, an Sws and a BD for a good party to perform. All the high-level locations were designed with this party setup in mind. The group vs. group PvP encounters were designed with this setup in mind as well. That means that over more than the last 5 years the game has been coercing servers into populations with high enchanter ratio.
Now, suddenly, the servers will need 3 times less enchanters... or 3 times more DDs.
It doesn't matter. If you don't have a buffer, you don't go anythere. If you then don't have a BD, you don't go anythere but "solo" spots. If you then don't have an SwS, you either don't go to the good spots at all, or utilize them not to their full potential. And it doesn't matter when they log or if they log at all.
I don't see a good implementation of such class change. There are too many details, each of whose may make people feel cheated by NCsoft.
The fact is NCsoft developers' track record. Have they ever done anything right from the first try since C1? And this time they are coming with sweeping changes that cannot be reversed...
I don't see a good implementation of such class change. There are too many details, each of whose may make people feel cheated by NCsoft.
It's exactly my feeling... I still can't understand why those changes were needed, it just kills the essence of L2...
Especially since this new changes stinks Aion : 8 archetypes (exactly same one as Aion), more lol instance lol (like if there wasn't enough of this already...), new stuff linked when picked up(lulz!)
If we really wanted a new game, we would just move out from L2... :(
It's exactly my feeling... I still can't understand why those changes were needed, it just kills the essence of L2...
Especially since this new changes stinks Aion : 8 archetypes (exactly same one as Aion), more lol instance lol (like if there wasn't enough of this already...), new stuff linked when picked up(lulz!)
If we really wanted a new game, we would just move out from L2... :(
Many of us in Korea feels exactly same.
I am one of those that are not happy with changes too. I chose to be a Kamael for a reason.
I don't want to be alike with orc or human.
Many of us in Korea feels exactly same.
I am one of those that are not happy with changes too. I chose to be a Kamael for a reason.
I don't want to be alike with orc or human.
Let's see how it turns out after the PTS.
Yeah, it's the only thing we can do anyways !
Thank you for letting us informed :o, really cool to have some Korean player to chat with ^^ !
I really don't see how people here will sudently start to party with randoms. I can't even understand how koreans do that. Maybe cause most of the times i tried i ended up in parties with people that had no clue on what they was suppoused to do.
I would like to ask what benefits korean players have in party with randoms? I can list lots of reasons to not do it like:
1- People that goes afk without even saying.
2- Takes forever till you form parties.
3- People that have no clue on what are they'r roles.
4- People that like to show they are ubber and screw the party.
5- Noob buffers(don't know what to buff), healers (that goes out of mana on the first 10 minuts of a buff round, singers/dancers that "forget" when to sing/dance, tankers that have no clue on what the hell agression is made for...
6- And the most critical of all. CHEATERS, i hate the idea of the big chance in get a cheater in my party.
I don't know if this is the reality of the koreans but here, you find plenty of dumb people that screw things up hard.
I really don't see how people here will sudently start to party with randoms. I can't even understand how koreans do that. Maybe cause most of the times i tried i ended up in parties with people that had no clue on what they was suppoused to do.
I would like to ask what benefits korean players have in party with randoms? I can list lots of reasons to not do it like:
1- People that goes afk without even saying.
2- Takes forever till you form parties.
3- People that have no clue on what are they'r roles.
4- People that like to show they are ubber and screw the party.
5- Noob buffers(don't know what to buff), healers (that goes out of mana on the first 10 minuts of a buff round, singers/dancers that "forget" when to sing/dance, tankers that have no clue on what the hell agression is made for...
6- And the most critical of all. CHEATERS, i hate the idea of the big chance in get a cheater in my party.
I don't know if this is the reality of the koreans but here, you find plenty of dumb people that screw things up hard.
1.We don't have any. You cannot leave the party until you find your replacement. If you know you have other things to do, better look for a replacement in advance even if you have some time left to play. Some classes like SWS are harder to get the replacement than other classes.
But none of us just leave the party without getting the replacement for the party. That's how we are just acustomed to.
2. Depends. But usually Kamaroka like party filles up within 1 to 2 min.
Regular hunting party fills up depends on where you play. but usually don't take longer than 20 to 30 min to form a party. Some party just fills up as soon as the matching opens up. There are about 6 to 8 different printesha raid and freya raids per day. Those fill up very fast.
Yes there's certain hunting party like one we do at the heart of dragon cavern, that takes about an hour to form, (some times couple min.). but once formed it continously run for many hours or even days until everybody decides to end the party because it runs with replacement.
3. We just don't have that many of those because from the beginnig, we tried to give all a chance and teach them instead of ban them. More you educaute, more you end up with better players that don't quit on early on. Everyone has good understanding of their role in the party. Very rarely, when someone totally new just takes over friend's high lvl toons and has no idea, instead of ban him, we again, teach him to be better.
4. I guess has to do with different cultural base. We play based on 'we' before 'I'. Usually we don't have any that screws up the party.
yes, there are people like that occationally, but, if there's any, he will lose chance to be in the party again, so he'll eventually cooperate to be in the party. Most just don't act in that manner though. We all try to play in harmony. I didn't understand what 'ubber' means.
5. Somewhat as same as #3. In my opinion, it's the result of how you guys been playing by not giving others a chance but to party only with ones you know. We.. just don't have those.. just don't... reason explained on #3.
6. I don't understand what you are referring as 'cheaters'.. what kind of cheat can you do? Simply don't understand this question, explain again.
2. Depends. But usually Kamaroka like party filles up within 1 to 2 min.
Regular hunting party fills up depends on where you play. but usually don't take longer than 20 to 30 min to form a party. Some party just fills up as soon as the matching opens up. There are about 6 to 8 different printesha raid and freya raids per day. Those fill up very fast.
Yes there's certain hunting party like one we do at the heart of dragon cavern, that takes about an hour to form, (some times couple min.). but once formed it continously run for many hours or even days until everybody decides to end the party because it runs with replacement.
More explanation on this.
When we start up a party, that party usually end with totally new and different 9 people than whom started.
1.We don't have any. You cannot leave the party until you find your replacement. If you know you have other things to do, better look for a replacement in advance even if you have some time left to play. Some classes like SWS are harder to get the replacement than other classes.
But none of us just leave the party without getting the replacement for the party. That's how we are just acustomed to.
I knew few people working like that, and it's a great pleasure to play with them, really :)
2. Depends. But usually Kamaroka like party filles up within 1 to 2 min.
Regular hunting party fills up depends on where you play. but usually don't take longer than 20 to 30 min to form a party. Some party just fills up as soon as the matching opens up. There are about 6 to 8 different printesha raid and freya raids per day. Those fill up very fast.
As you see I think, the party matching system is not used at all here. The main problem I know about it is that it "reveals" your loc to ennemies.
6. I don't understand what you are referring as 'cheaters'.. what kind of cheat can you do? Simply don't understand this question, explain again.
Using 3rd party programs is stricly forbidden by the EULA, and it's impossible to know if one player is using any of them or not. There is like a global fear of partying with a cheater, mainly with botters (people which use programs to automate gameplay). As far as I know, when there is a cheater in one party, NCSoft policy is to scan all players, and I alread heard about full parties being banned because of one players using bot programs (more around C4-Interlude)
Where would you get those new lvl85+ DDs to fill that parties, lol?
You will need 3 times more DDs than there is now if you want every enchanter to have their own party (and every other such DD will have a boxed enchanter anyway lol).
How many people actually play Enchanter class as their main? How many play as Enchanter mains in your clan against the ratio of DD mains? We have ~15 active clan members, 3 plays Enchanter as main.
Here's the idea of boxing again... when GoD is a chance for us to be easier to have active people in party, or are we all now too anti-social to actually party with real people? Do the idea of people no longer need to box freaks you out? Lol
Add: Also, we have no information on what the 4th class skills are; parties might need 2 Enchanters (buffer+bd/sws) in GoD.
Seriously stop making up facts like ''all randoms don't know how to party play'' because it's pure BS and you are making it up.
For example WoW is way more complex party play and how you will make dungeon depends on everyone in party and yet people usually go very well in parties. Not to mention that WoW is almost solo game so random people succeeding 90%(btw here experience is talking, I was a tank and not making this number up, most runs are completely smooth) of the time proves that.
I don't know why people do not use party matching tool. It's a great tool to be honest but in the western world it is not used. Also it's not true that this tool is not used due to fact that it reveals your position to enemies. I mean ''servers we are not allowed to talk about'' also not using it. I think the real problem is that people are not aware of this tool. Even if someone accidentally comes around it can see that it's empty and leaves at the same moment. It needs to be more highlighted imo.
I don't know why people do not use party matching tool. It's a great tool to be honest but in the western world it is not used. Also it's not true that this tool is not used due to fact that it reveals your position to enemies. I mean ''servers we are not allowed to talk about'' also not using it. I think the real problem is that people are not aware of this tool. Even if someone accidentally comes around it can see that it's empty and leaves at the same moment. It needs to be more highlighted imo.
I don't understand how you could say if a thing is true or false, it's like I say "I love this paint" and you say "no you can't" ;)
I only repeat what I heard, and even if it's old (I didn't managed to do anything with the partymatching system since CT1) It is what other people told me. Let's imagine you are in a clan with some wars, and you start making a room like "Party need X/Y/Z to AoE Fog". What is the probability of being ganked ?
I don't understand how you could say if a thing is true or false, it's like I say "I love this paint" and you say "no you can't" ;)
I only repeat what I heard, and even if it's old (I didn't managed to do anything with the partymatching system since CT1) It is what other people told me. Let's imagine you are in a clan with some wars, and you start making a room like "Party need X/Y/Z to AoE Fog". What is the probability of being ganked ?
This might be a reason but not everyone is in wars... Anyway as I said it's not only retail servers this tool is not used.
@destructor thanks for your posts to keep us informed even if not all of us like the news you bring or appreciate your effort ^^
with regards to the support discussion I'll just quote myself here as I've said it already quite well before..
well for me it depends mostly on my ingame friends and among them are bd's pp dc & ol and with me being a sws we're about all to become the same "class" which is going to mess up our party/gaming balance completely..
we all love our class as they are or we wouldn't have played them all the way to 85+
as Hyper said we rather move on to another game to keep play together then being forced into either stop play together or have some of us forced to "reroll" :(
I only repeat what I heard, and even if it's old (I didn't managed to do anything with the partymatching system since CT1) It is what other people told me. Let's imagine you are in a clan with some wars, and you start making a room like "Party need X/Y/Z to AoE Fog". What is the probability of being ganked ?
Yes... that's one of our problems; because most people repeat what they heard without knowing the facts. I do sense that we are afraid to try new things/get out of our comfort zone, the fear of failure. It seems like the Koreans have the idea of; 'we didn't fail, but rather we found 1,000 ways that didn't work.'
For the wartags, you can always use an alt or someone in party that's neutral to make the room... Have no one thought of that before? :eek: I did party someone with war used that method in the past, oh... and he's Korean lol.
If your 'enchanter' friends don't have other DD friends, that's more sad than being forced to reroll and/or not being about to play together.
People exaggerating whole DD to support ratio way too much. It's is only true in TOP clans because they were formed that way to maximize performance. Rest of players(which is completely majority btw) suffer lack of support. Meaning server has way more DD's compared to support so after GoD there will not be too much enchanters and not enough DD's.
People exaggerating whole DD to support ratio way too much. It's is only true in TOP clans because they were formed that way to maximize performance. Rest of players(which is completely majority btw) suffer lack of support. Meaning server has way more DD's compared to support so after GoD there will not be too much enchanters and not enough DD's.
Yes. People cried about that there's not enough support players hence they box supports, and now people cry about there's too much support... that just makes me laugh. I know someone from a top pvp clan. He doesn't like playing his sws sub for sieges but he has to since there's not enough sws. So in top clan for once, people can start playing the class they like playing rather than being a 'support' class just for the clan. Isn't that a good thing?
3. We just don't have that many of those because from the beginnig, we tried to give all a chance and teach them instead of ban them. More you educaute, more you end up with better players that don't quit on early on. Everyone has good understanding of their role in the party. Very rarely, when someone totally new just takes over friend's high lvl toons and has no idea, instead of ban him, we again, teach him to be better.
5. Somewhat as same as #3. In my opinion, it's the result of how you guys been playing by not giving others a chance but to party only with ones you know. We.. just don't have those.. just don't... reason explained on #3.
Well, don't get me wrong, im the type that shares all the knowledge i have with other players, in my clan i write lots of play tips, tutorials, i tried to make any new player that want, and have at least a pair of neurons, understand the game. If i see that a guy is at least trying to understand i have no problem in do what you do. But for god sake, it ****** me off people that plays the game for 76 lvls and have no clue on what they are doing and never tried to learn.
Some people are a bit slower than others Terry. Some play the game more casually and don't have the hours needed to commit to reading guides. This games has a LOT of content due to being out for 7+ years. It doesn't help that doing a google search on lineage 2 guides comes up with more private servers and 5 year old guides than current/updated ones either.
2. Depends. But usually Kamaroka like party filles up within 1 to 2 min.
Regular hunting party fills up depends on where you play. but usually don't take longer than 20 to 30 min to form a party. Some party just fills up as soon as the matching opens up. There are about 6 to 8 different printesha raid and freya raids per day. Those fill up very fast.
Yes there's certain hunting party like one we do at the heart of dragon cavern, that takes about an hour to form, (some times couple min.). but once formed it continously run for many hours or even days until everybody decides to end the party because it runs with replacement.
I wanna know my record? 3 hours with a party match opened without a single person in it. I must say thats not fault of the match system, as i can see we have like 1% of the population you have on your servers.
And with that you can exclude the pvpers, that cause of their wars, and some other major problems, nobody want them in parties, unless you are looking for problems.
Some people are a bit slower than others Terry. Some play the game more casually and don't have the hours needed to commit to reading guides. This games has a LOT of content due to being out for 7+ years. It doesn't help that doing a google search on lineage 2 guides comes up with more private servers and 5 year old guides than current/updated ones either.
And its my fault that people try to play a complex game that require hours of reading without the desire to know how it works? Takes like 15 minuts to read a basic tutorial, if a guy can't spen't that time to learn the basics he will fail in progress.
And by the way, im a casual player also, I work 8h a day, take care of my house, need to find time to stay with my family and etc. But even doing all these i find time to play, write tips, search on forums. So i can say that the problem is not how casual someone play. Its lack of desire to play on a decent way.
There's a difference between basics and mechanics. Basics = walk, target, attack, level. Mechanics are the timings of buffs/cooldowns, how to react to certain situations, etc. You can't get to 76 without knowing the basics. You can without knowing or caring about the mechanics. It may take 15 minutes to read a tutorial, that's only on a certain aspect of the game.
I just started back up, and I've been spending multiple hours a day at work reading guides/forums about content that has come out since prelude... I STILL haven't figured out everything I want to know.
Now imagine trying to figure this stuff out as a casual player (at most 1-2 hours per day, 2-3 days a week) without a job like mine that allows this. It would cut into limited playing time. And when you are already YEARS behind other players... motivation to "waste" time not playing is probably lacking.
I wanna know my record? 3 hours with a party match opened without a single person in it.
Waiting 3 full hours in a party finder hardly sounds casual to me. Just because you have a RL doesn't mean you are casual. Everyone has a RL whether they play 1 or 10 hours a day, casual players are ones with limited time that don't strive for the perfect level/gear/character. They enjoy the game for what it is, through each step and do not care what pace the game sets for them.
There's a difference between basics and mechanics. Basics = walk, target, attack, level. Mechanics are the timings of buffs/cooldowns, how to react to certain situations, etc. You can't get to 76 without knowing the basics. You can without knowing or caring about the mechanics. It may take 15 minutes to read a tutorial, that's only on a certain aspect of the game.
I just started back up, and I've been spending multiple hours a day at work reading guides/forums about content that has come out since prelude... I STILL haven't figured out everything I want to know.
Now imagine trying to figure this stuff out as a casual player (at most 1-2 hours per day, 2-3 days a week) without a job like mine that allows this. It would cut into limited playing time. And when you are already YEARS behind other players... motivation to "waste" time not playing is probably lacking.
Waiting 3 full hours in a party finder hardly sounds casual to me. Just because you have a RL doesn't mean you are casual. Everyone has a RL whether they play 1 or 10 hours a day, casual players are ones with limited time that don't strive for the perfect level/gear/character. They enjoy the game for what it is, through each step and do not care what pace the game sets for them.
SO theres no casual player in here, cause the few ones that i know that play for less then 2 hours a day(and don't care with the game mechanics), cry cause they don't know how to make money, cry cause the game is too dificult, cry cause they don't have gear, cry for everything.
In the other hand i know people that just do thy'r 1h nevits blessing every day and are interested in learn.
Whatever, i don't hang with people that don't wanna evolve, nor in game nor in real life.
Once again you are twisting my words to each extreme. Someone who plays irregularly and grinds off of nevits/vit4 only is also considered a casual player, whether the limitation is time or motivation. They could easily play hardcore and grind all the way to vit 0, but choose not to because it is not as FUN.
The average person can figure out how nevits, shadow gear, or vit4 work by simply logging in. It doesn't take a guide to figure those things out. They can also learn their character and abilities by using them while leveling.
Learning things like the absolute best path to take from 1-85 is a mechanic that only HARDCORE players care about. You do not need to do this to get to 85, it just helps you get there sooner. Just because someone doesn't want to spend hours finding and studying said 1-85 guide doesn't mean they are morons and deserve the aggression you are showing. They just want to have fun while playing the game, figuring out bits and pieces as they go along.
We are not talking about the same type of players in any aspects.
The ones im talking about that plays 1h a day do it cause they CAN'T play more not cause they decided to not play more, but still don't use this as excuse to not get commited to the game mechanics and understand how advanced things works. They are casual players for sure but don't fit that descriprition of "be happy with any bone they can take" in that 1h.
For god sake i know people lvl 76 that don't even know what a life stone is made for, when they can use blessed shots, or that don't even know how search where he should grind looking at the map. If you think this is normal for a player then i have nothing more to say. Most of them use the "lack of time" as excuse.
I'm sorry I just don't see how someone can get to 76+ without knowing how to rebuff each time they run out. (seems you editted that out of your post now, wtg).
Its simple, these kind of people join a clan "usualy a pve clan" then keep asking for bones here and there every time they log in. Then someone decide to help with some gear here and there, bring them into parties, etc, but they don't give a **** on the work people are doing in there, they don't wanna read, they don't wanna go in TS/VENT, they don't wanna visit the clan forums. Use google is a bannable offence, all cause they have "no time".
You never knew a player like that?
Sry most my posts are edited cause i ussualy correct some therms or words.
I've seen low levels like that in many games, but not from someone who has already committed months of play and sub fees. People like that usually don't last long in MMORPGs where the content is always advancing in difficulty.
There's no way you could reach lvl 76 and above without knowing the skills of your toons wether you've reached it by playing solo or in party.
It takes about 5 min to open up a skill window and read the description of each skills you have.
Most likely those people who has no idea probably took over an account from someone else or bought the account because they are lazy to start from lvl 1. Otherwise, how can you not know your toons at such a lvl.
Terry what you are talking about are only 5 or 10% of the players. Eventually you will encounter such players - yes, but that's not the point. Point is that complete majority and I MEAN COMPLETE MAJORITY knows what to do, how to do and gladly takes advices you give.
This game is nowhere near the complexity you exaggerating. Fact is that in Korea completely random players manage to do freya/zaken/tezza/tiat. Players could do it here too if the tool would be used more widely.
L2 is cursed (or maybe i am). There are tons of those players, you just got lucky in find a few :).
Considering how long i've played the game..
i know for a fact this is actually quite accurate..
Even some of the so called "hardcore" players don't know their class/how to play their class... even for things that are a simple step above the "basics"
SwS and BDs that can't dance/sing when they should, throw up dances/songs in an order that doesn't make sense, throw up the wrong dances/songs.... some that just don't do what their classes are intended to do at all which is just terrible.
Healers that kill their MP
Buffers that miss buffing or do strange things which aren't always even discribeable...
Tanks that don't use hate/agression, or commit suicide by attacking or hating when they shouldn't, that don't pay attention to their parties condition.
Tons of people that never ever pay attention to chat/vent/ts.... either in combination or alltogether.
It is utterly surprising how populated Lineage II is with people that for lack of a better way to put it.. and i'm not at all trying to sound like a ***** here.... as i believe everyone is entitled to RL or missing a few times and making mistakes.. but it's the repeatable over and over even with attempts from other people to help them..... that just simply need to step out of the game, or find similare playing people to play with (unfortunately if the later happened, they would probably all quit due to not being able to do anything at all)
I haven't a huge problem with people that either "aquired" or managed to play a "friends" character provided they are willing to listen and learn. But it is shocking to get even yelled at and death threats for suggesting ways to improve the way they play their toon. Those people that are like that i can't stand.. and i have no wish to have anything to do with.... if i were party leader/clan leader.. i'd simply just boot them and move on, never to invite them again.
This is one area in which the Major PVP and PVE clans have things usually straight, the rest of the players are a mix of great hiden strengths among hundreds of really terrible players...
Usually top pvp/pve clans can weed these bad eggs out if they aren't able to get them to learn..... sometimes it can take awhile.. but oventually it typically happens....
There's no way you could reach lvl 76 and above without knowing the skills of your toons wether you've reached it by playing solo or in party.
It takes about 5 min to open up a skill window and read the description of each skills you have.
Most likely those people who has no idea probably took over an account from someone else or bought the account because they are lazy to start from lvl 1. Otherwise, how can you not know your toons at such a lvl.
Precisely... this has happened more often then ncsoft NA would care to admit.. and of course.... many of these players know better then to tell the truth about how they came to be.
Most recently ran into a BD which is higher lvl then me (not much).... 5/5 epics.... geared fairly well..... nothing major in terms of weapons either... but.... he couldn't for the life of him figure out how to "dance noble" which took me a short period of time to figure out what he was talking about.... i thought he was joking earlier..
Surfice it to say.... that bd was terrible, didn't know his dances, ran out of MP almost emediately, threw up wrong dances in the wrong order, and outright sucked.. hell quite often didn't know to turn on his shots... CLEAR winner there. And in trying to explain some of what a player that is lvl 82+ SHOULD know to be the very "basics"..... well..... he didn't catch on.
This happens more often then some people care to admit.
And now take that one example and put for the rest of players except players in your party. Also everyone else bought their chars too just not players from your party.
Arwis understand a thing. It works on korea cause players are used too and have the minumum commitiment to not screw things up.
A random raid party here have so high chance to fail in that raid that people don't even botter in try. How many times you have invited a random to your party (lets say a bd thas usualy a class lfg) and 5 minuts after it started the guys says "sry i gotta go" and leave your party with the pants in hands?
If i understood correctly what destructor said, this situation will NEVER happen in korea.
Arwis understand a thing. It works on korea cause players are used too and have the minumum commitiment to not screw things up.
A random raid party here have so high chance to fail in that raid that people don't even botter in try. How many times you have invited a random to your party (lets say a bd thas usualy a class lfg) and 5 minuts after it started the guys says "sry i gotta go" and leave your party with the pants in hands?
If i understood correctly what destructor said, this situation will NEVER happen in korea.
Not in the middle of the raid. oh no.. It never happens.
Arwis understand a thing. It works on korea cause players are used too and have the minumum commitiment to not screw things up.
A random raid party here have so high chance to fail in that raid that people don't even botter in try. How many times you have invited a random to your party (lets say a bd thas usualy a class lfg) and 5 minuts after it started the guys says "sry i gotta go" and leave your party with the pants in hands?
If i understood correctly what destructor said, this situation will NEVER happen in korea.
I'm not really partying outside clan, because A) I don't have time to look for party B) Clan uses party sign ups on forums so I just log at whatever time is set and play.
However in November/December there was one guy Warlord organizing AOE parties in FoG using shouts in giran/aden and since I wanted to boost my BD sub to 76 I joined him. Been FoG/CoD with him and never had troubles. He only had DC so BP/EE/BD sometimes SWS was random players and we managed AOE everytime I joined him.
If people would be using party matching tool I would gladly use it.
Well, not really on your topic.. but party matching system is widely used on RU servers. At any time of day you can login, open party matching window and there will be 3 or more pages with people/parties lf people/parties and ofc some sellers that advertise their shops this way. You can level up to maximum level using only random parties, but eventually the majority there looks for constant group to enjoy more pvp aspects of game. All top clans consist of constant command channels (usually 3 parties) which consist of constant parties. It happens very often that if one person in clan is accused of something, offended or whatever, his constant decides to leave clan to follow him and then CC follows that constant too.
Here on Naia top clans structure almost same, but due to lack of people random person can get a spot in big raid. I see fairly often that people look for some support class for Freya and I've been in such raids myself. Ofc you can't find party that will be going for days with changing people like destructor described, but now I see that even on low levels people are able to find random party (well, not party, 2-3 guys) to level or to try raids, saw shouts for raids 30+, 40+ in hero shout. Everything is not that bad, but not that great either.
I blame mentality and the fact that all ppl come from different countries with different time zones and usually tend to find group from their country or speaking their language. Even if we play english game (translated into english), there is huge percentage of people that barely can express themselves in english.
And one more thing. People that say that there are no new people coming to game, there are no chances to find parties on low level usually turn out to be high level guys that forgot low levels long ago.
When I started this game in February 2008 I joined academy of a big clan, I didn't know much about what is academy and had knowledge of c4 from private server (here we just got Kamael installed) so I chatted a lot in clan chat trying to get more info. When people knew I am newbie on the server, just started, most of them were surprised that new people still come to this game. Now I am high level with all high level subs and with same friends... and I start to forget how it was when I was low level and was making friends by finding them in towns or going together to some kamaloka or some raid (I found my best friend in random party and we ended up leveling to high level together). I catch myself on thought that low levels are dead now, no new people, no parties, but go to Dion or Gludio, you will see people, random people, doing kama together having found themselves in shout chat :)
LoL, ill share you what just happened. I was in crypts grinding my box, doing small pole trains, a guy came and asked to join me so he could grind his bd sub lvl 72. I accepted him in my party, a bigger group came and he asked to join them cause i was not "good enough" for him. Of course he pmed the other party leader but mistyped the text on party chat.
Then you guys want me to party with randoms, to give them a chance...
And now take that one example and put for the rest of players except players in your party. Also everyone else bought their chars too just not players from your party.
you've just lost all credibility due to taking everything stated to the utter and complete extremes...
when you get a little more intelligent.... i may read what you type without taking it as pure sarcasm and tasteless humor....
Judas you aren't better your self. You are talking about one guy and making it look so all others are similar. Isn't that extreme too?
I agree you shouldn't expect performance of random player compared to const player but there's one thing as long as it works or as long as you can continue exp non stop it shouldn't bother you.
But of course there are some people(I'm not hitting at you or anyone else) who thinks they know stuff better(well maybe they do) and if someone is not listening to them they get angry, anxious even tho party works pretty well.
Further I would like to note I'm not blind! There are bad players out there, there are quite few of them but it's not fair putting bad player tag on every player which you don't know.
Anyway we should get back to the topic! Even tho I'm not a fan of classes being reduced to just 8!!! But I see the reason. There are a lot of unwatanted in parties classes right now because they do not have pure DPS which can be achieved by titan or glad or tyrant.
To solve that they would have to give some skills to increase DPS of such classess however other problems rises instantly making such classes OP @ PvP. Current basic skills up to 78 were designed by original L2 developers and it's really hard to increase DPS of low DPS classes without taking some skills away. I mean such classes as maestro would need complete overhoul to match raw DPS of glad.
It's easier to reduce number of classes and design 8 classes than tryting to design 35 or so. Well at least it's what I'm thinking.
Anyway we should get back to the topic! Even tho I'm not a fan of classes being reduced to just 8!!! But I see the reason. There are a lot of unwatanted in parties classes right now because they do not have pure DPS which can be achieved by titan or glad or tyrant.
To solve that they would have to give some skills to increase DPS of such classess however other problems rises instantly making such classes OP @ PvP. Current basic skills up to 78 were designed by original L2 developers and it's really hard to increase DPS of low DPS classes without taking some skills away. I mean such classes as maestro would need complete overhoul to match raw DPS of glad.
It's easier to reduce number of classes and design 8 classes than tryting to design 35 or so. Well at least it's what I'm thinking.
They just simple think if every warrior classes will get same skills they will same useful. But than better to reduce all the 36 classes to 1 class and than everybody will useful.
I read, that the NCsoft expanded the Lineage II Team with +50% for develop the Goddess of Destruction in May of 2010. I think to May of 2011 all these developer will be without work. Or they will have to work at day and at night to remake the Goddess of Destruction or make a new total another expansion, cuz I think nobody won't care for it.
Judas you aren't better your self. You are talking about one guy and making it look so all others are similar. Isn't that extreme too?
The fact of the matter is i was giving a single example of probably about 100+ people i've ran into over the course of nearing the 7 year mark of playing...
This isn't isolated.... this isn't a rare thing to occur.... it's a matter of fact that is is occuring, there isn't a single clan i've been in that hasn't had 1 or 2 or maybe more in some cases of people like this.... sometimes WORSE (which is amazing to witness) and sometimes not so bad....
I was giving the LATEST experience which occured a VERY short period of time ago.
I was giving an overall average, i run into someone that doesn't understand their class probably once a month ..... average..... sometimes a bunch in a row.. sometimes not for a few months.. but it's quite regular otherwise.
I agree you shouldn't expect performance of random player compared to const player but there's one thing as long as it works or as long as you can continue exp non stop it shouldn't bother you.
But of course there are some people(I'm not hitting at you or anyone else) who thinks they know stuff better(well maybe they do) and if someone is not listening to them they get angry, anxious even tho party works pretty well.
Further I would like to note I'm not blind! There are bad players out there, there are quite few of them but it's not fair putting bad player tag on every player which you don't know.
I consider myself quite often a random player in the sense of how it's being coined here..
Quite often the first 20 minutes of being in a party can be touch and go because everyone runs their class/and such differently.... sometimes it seems to take a little longer or takes completely revising the way i handle things due to the other person in the party that directly effects my class.. that being a SWS just does things differently..... it's not usually as efficient.. but i'll flex quite easily and i'm very patient...
for me to get angry is pretty **** hard... i am not one that thinks i'm better then anyones else... i'll be one of the first to admit that i don't know something.. or have a ****** pvper..... or whatever... But i am also well aware of how mistakes are made and how frequent they can occur.. and what it takes to make someone not pay attention to the game enough to miss songs/dances..... cause and effect.... consequence/aftermath of this as well.
In no way was i labeling everyone as such.... i was just pointing out that there is indeed for a FACT.... many MANY players that simply haven't a clue.... managed to "gain" mid to high level characters. In essence a number of them may as well have just created a new character but were able to get all these skills they haven't a clue what they are for.
It's actually a bit of a running joke in a way... because in the past, anyone that even came a bit .... even the slightest bit across as not knowing the fundamental "basics" of their class emediately would suggest "High lvl newbie" AKA "aquired" toon, first time player.
Okay.. but Im not speaking about number of players currently logged in. Im speaking about number of subscriptions.
How does that benefit the people playing? Get real... Half the pathetic 3k number of people 'playing' at any one time are not even people, they're boxed support or shops.
You understand that I'm talking about people in Korea.. right?
I also mentioned that normal PvE clan also can clear up normal Freay with one party too. It's not that they don't have good gears or they don't oe their skills.
The normal PvE clan people also has very good gears and good oe'ed skills. just not as extream as of those in PvP clans.
Most PvE players would be satisfied with 900 element enchants on armor where PvP player will go all the way to 1800. (doen'st mean all PvE would be happy with 900 ee on armors. many would go for full 1800 too.)
I myself is in PvE clan now and no longer intersted in PvP, but has all 6+ novel vesper armor set with 1600 elements enchant.
Many PvE would go for 300 element on weapon while many are still happy with 150 elements, where all PvP players will only use 300 elements weapons. Many times multiple same type weapons with different elements.
The PvE wouldn't go extream simply they don't feel it's necessary yet. where the PvP clan will go extream to be on top, to maintain their power.
Many of PvE players are very strong too,. When some PvP clans bullies around too much on PvE people, many occations it happened that PvE people will make an alliance to drive that PvP clan out of the server. What our PvE clans enjoys wasn't given free. PvE fought back and earned the freedom and peace. Like I said PvE population on our server is more than half. about 60% to 70%.
Now it bring back the another issue I was mentioning on another thread.
PvE and PvP has totally different interests on our servers. that's just it.
Well then i geuss my clan can't be counted as an average PVE clan at all then, we constantly try to upgrade everything to top of the bill gears.
But onething does intrigues me from Korean servers maybe u can clear this up for me ?
So far i seen just fragments of texts from the Vitality managers and some times packages u can buy wiht time cards , often seen gifts like Blessed enchants into those ? Is that true ?
No way.... if max people on euro/na is 6000 at any time there is no way there is 25k active accounts, at most maybe 12,000.
You really think half the active accounts in the game will be logged on at once? People have lives. WoW had 12m subs at one point, but there were never more than 3 million online during peak hours.
The only time you're going to see half or more of the active accounts online is directly after a huge release/update. Like when cataclysm came out, the census mod doubled in population for that month because millions logged on just to test the new content.
Well then i geuss my clan can't be counted as an average PVE clan at all then, we constantly try to upgrade everything to top of the bill gears.
But onething does intrigues me from Korean servers maybe u can clear this up for me ?
So far i seen just fragments of texts from the Vitality managers and some times packages u can buy wiht time cards , often seen gifts like Blessed enchants into those ? Is that true ?
The new system we have now is, NC sells us N coins now. With N coin, we can extend time play as well as buy vitamin items you receive through the vitamin manager near the warehouse. (Actually, right now we don't even have to go see the vitamin manager, but that's what the intial update would be.)
The vitamin items includes some potions that maintains your vitality lvl at current for 30 min with dealy to use. The cookies that gives you some of the usefully buffs. One cookie will give you the counterstrike and the other will give you big, there's one for mana gain.. and couple more.
The tickets to get in to the Kamaroka once more per day. Some additional accessaries like new hats and agacions. Couple of different rides you can buy that has very fast moving speed. And some teleport scrolls and books... and more.
I don't know if you guys are going to get what we got, but probably it will turn out to be same here as well.
We really didn't like the idea of N coins and still don't like it. However, even when everyone's bitc*ing about it.. there are still lots of people buying them.
You understand that I'm talking about people in Korea.. right?
I also mentioned that normal PvE clan also can clear up normal Freay with one party too. It's not that they don't have good gears or they don't oe their skills.
The normal PvE clan people also has very good gears and good oe'ed skills. just not as extream as of those in PvP clans.
Most PvE players would be satisfied with 900 element enchants on armor where PvP player will go all the way to 1800. (doen'st mean all PvE would be happy with 900 ee on armors. many would go for full 1800 too.)
I myself is in PvE clan now and no longer intersted in PvP, but has all 6+ novel vesper armor set with 1600 elements enchant.
Many PvE would go for 300 element on weapon while many are still happy with 150 elements, where all PvP players will only use 300 elements weapons. Many times multiple same type weapons with different elements.
The PvE wouldn't go extream simply they don't feel it's necessary yet. where the PvP clan will go extream to be on top, to maintain their power.
Many of PvE players are very strong too,. When some PvP clans bullies around too much on PvE people, many occations it happened that PvE people will make an alliance to drive that PvP clan out of the server. What our PvE clans enjoys wasn't given free. PvE fought back and earned the freedom and peace. Like I said PvE population on our server is more than half. about 60% to 70%.
Now it bring back the another issue I was mentioning on another thread.
PvE and PvP has totally different interests on our servers. that's just it.
Correction on my equipments. I have all 6+ novel vespor light armor set with 1800 elements. 8+Vespor weapon with 300 holy with haste.(Used to have +17 Vespor 300elemental haste..) And ofcourse, common epics that most of you probably has. prin, jaken, ant, and oly ring and earrings. Looking to buy baium, but can't find any available now.
How does my gears fall on your server? I am just curious. Is it average?
Please no more of those we are better than you like comments please. I am only trying to find out the difference, right? I am never saying who plays and has better. I just want the facts.
Correction on my equipments. I have all 6+ novel vespor light armor set with 1800 elements. 8+Vespor weapon with 300 holy with haste.(Used to have +17 Vespor 300elemental haste..) And ofcourse, common epics that most of you probably has. prin, jaken, ant, and oly ring and earrings. Looking to buy baium, but can't find any available now.
How does my gears fall on your server? I am just curious. Is it average?
Please no more of those we are better than you like comments please. I am only trying to find out the difference, right? I am never saying who plays and has better. I just want the facts.
I adapted your stuff to english terms, correct me if I'm wrong :
+6 Vesper Noble Set (Low S84 Armor Set, white color)
+8 Vesper Weapon 300 Holy Haste
Zaken
Frintezza Necklace (the A grade one)
Queen Ant (the B grade one)
Oly Rings and Earrings.
As far as I know, your stuff is pretty good for most of players here :) I mean, it doesn't differ a lot from "top players" in "top pvp clans"
But even if stuff does help, it's useless to have good items without knowing how to use them. So I don't judge people with that
(even if I love your stuff :p)
I adapted your stuff to english terms, correct me if I'm wrong :
+6 Vesper Noble Set (Low S84 Armor Set, white color)
+8 Vesper Weapon 300 Holy Haste
Zaken
Frintezza Necklace (the A grade one)
Queen Ant (the B grade one)
Oly Rings and Earrings.
As far as I know, your stuff is pretty good for most of players here :) I mean, it doesn't differ a lot from "top players" in "top pvp clans"
But even if stuff does help, it's useless to have good items without knowing how to use them. So I don't judge people with that
(even if I love your stuff :p)
Your adaptation is correct. Again, I don't know the most of the terminology you guys use. I have to write as it sounds in Korean,Thanks. :D
I am just trying to compare the gears. Controlling your toon is totally different issue and will never be determined unless I am able to fight some of you with my toons to compare. Average PvP Players wears Vopar(is that how you call it? the mid lvl s84 armor) sets.
By the way, my gears are below average compare to our top pvp players..(Most of them will only wear +6 Vorpal set or 6+ all rare Vesper noble set.)
I am probably slightly above average among most PvE players. Pretty average among average PvP players.(you don't see that many Vesper noble sets among pvp players unless it's +6 or above.)
The new system we have now is, NC sells us N coins now. With N coin, we can extend time play as well as buy vitamin items you receive through the vitamin manager near the warehouse. (Actually, right now we don't even have to go see the vitamin manager, but that's what the intial update would be.)
The vitamin items includes some potions that maintains your vitality lvl at current for 30 min with dealy to use. The cookies that gives you some of the usefully buffs. One cookie will give you the counterstrike and the other will give you big, there's one for mana gain.. and couple more.
The tickets to get in to the Kamaroka once more per day. Some additional accessaries like new hats and agacions. Couple of different rides you can buy that has very fast moving speed. And some teleport scrolls and books... and more.
I don't know if you guys are going to get what we got, but probably it will turn out to be same here as well.
We really didn't like the idea of N coins and still don't like it. However, even when everyone's bitc*ing about it.. there are still lots of people buying them.
Well no one likes to say openly , i would like it easier , but hell this is nice
I want, more then once a day in kamaloka i want i want i want !
More vitality , hell yes i want !
I'm not ashamed to say i love those things !
Sounds like a big surprise gift to me , that i can actually give to myself!
Why not then :o
I would think this would have huge success here too .
Well no one likes to say openly , i would like it easier , but hell this is nice
I want, more then once a day in kamaloka i want i want i want !
More vitality , hell yes i want !
I'm not ashamed to say i love those things !
Sounds like a big surprise gift to me , that i can actually give to myself!
Why not then :o
I would think this would have huge success here too .
You could send most of the items as a gift to other players on your server, too. If you want..
Which means.. you can get gifts from others, too.;)
Correction on my equipments. I have all 6+ novel vespor light armor set with 1800 elements. 8+Vespor weapon with 300 holy with haste.(Used to have +17 Vespor 300elemental haste..) And ofcourse, common epics that most of you probably has. prin, jaken, ant, and oly ring and earrings. Looking to buy baium, but can't find any available now.
How does my gears fall on your server? I am just curious. Is it average?
Please no more of those we are better than you like comments please. I am only trying to find out the difference, right? I am never saying who plays and has better. I just want the facts.
this type of gear is avaiable only for top pvp clans... and just for some few players.
The chances for a pve player here to get an dynasty set with 1800 element resist for example its close to zero i think. For your info one element crystal here costs close to 15 milion adena.
Your adaptation is correct. Again, I don't know the most of the terminology you guys use. I have to write as it sounds in Korean,Thanks. :D
I am just trying to compare the gears. Controlling your toon is totally different issue and will never be determined unless I am able to fight some of you with my toons to compare. Average PvP Players wears Vopar(is that how you call it? the mid lvl s84 armor) sets.
By the way, my gears are below average compare to our top pvp players..(Most of them will only wear +6 Vorpal set or 6+ all rare Vesper noble set.)
I am probably slightly above average among most PvE players. Pretty average among average PvP players.(you don't see that many Vesper noble sets among pvp players unless it's +6 or above.)
This gear on our servers doesnt exist,only the few top toons in each top clan may have them and almost all of them did them through ebay/bottrains.Any player on na servers can confirm there is no way a legit player to have this gear and im talking about players that play everyday more than 6 hours.
Can you inform us how you made this gear?How many hours do you play everyday?Since you are in a pve clan,how you got your epics?Where did you find adena for all the vesper parts you broke to +6(and where did you find the parts too,since if +6 armors are a comon thing in Korea,you need non stop crafting to produce all those parts,meaning you need endless mats and key mats,are there so many korean players who play L2 only to spoil/manor from day to night?
Where did you find the elemental stones and crys?If drop rate is same as here and sod/soi has same rooms,assuming you had full resist also on your previous armor,its very hard for me to understand how you farmed the stones.
I can just tell you that solo aoe in gc makes around 4-5 stones in 5 hours(only if you find the rooms free),duo xp in delusion makes 4-5 stones in 6 hours,aoe at fog on 3-4 man group on beetles/mercainerys spot(if ever spot free) makes 4-5 stones on each player and 1 room in sod gives 2 crys in 12 hours(assuming you are alive all time and dont need to go sleep/work).
For spoiling vesper mats,i have tried on mos and soa,since you need a full party to go, spoils are splitted among members,that makes really a long time untill everyone will have enough parts to start crafting.With X1 rates,all these make sense only if you box a full party and keep all spoils/drops,but without program that's not possible,so explain us please how you do it in Korea.
This gear on our servers doesnt exist,only the few top toons in each top clan may have them and almost all of them did them through ebay/bottrains.Any player on na servers can confirm there is no way a legit player to have this gear and im talking about players that play everyday more than 6 hours.
Then you are false. I know a lot of people having this stuff, and even a better one on retail, and of course I talk about legit peoples ;)
It's not why you don't get this stuff that's it's impossible. What you forgot, it is that destructor play for a long time, so he got more than enough time to gather money :p
And Lol @ epics are only for PvP Clan. With adena, anyone could buy them at Giran / Aden
This gear on our servers doesnt exist,only the few top toons in each top clan may have them and almost all of them did them through ebay/bottrains.Any player on na servers can confirm there is no way a legit player to have this gear and im talking about players that play everyday more than 6 hours.
Nah, it is doable, kind of. I am in a pve clan and it is very well possible to get that gear. Only real problem is getting all the crystals go get the weapon to 300 and the armor maxed out, the rest is achievable. Of course farming ALL the main armor pieces to craft vesper armor is hard (except robes), but you can easily get recs+mats for everything else, and use the main armor pieces you get to make a buy shop. We have a lot of people in clan/ally now with vesper armor, some of them even noble (via SoI quests). If you regularly do Tiat/Frintezza/Zaken, you can also get armor and weapons as drops, even Vorpal armor. Epics? Frint is easy to get, now that the raid is instanced. AQ is usually locked down by somebody, but the ring has become cheap enough that you can buy it in Giran. Zaken is also buyable, if you save up money long enough. Oly rings/earrings are easy to get and will even have a longer timer in the next update.
So, Vesper set+Vesper weapon (at least without maxed out element) and 1-2 epics plus oly epics is something everybody can get. Not easy, mind you, but it is doable.
yeah doable, but to call it "common" gear would be a big exaggeration
@Destructor we don't have the dimensional merchant stuff here, means, our enchant success rate is the basic one, enchanting armor to +6 is so expensive, that trying is even futile for the normal player. Same with high grade weapons.
Example: a blessed enchant armor scroll costs 55kk Adena
a blessed enchant weapon 350-400kk
to get an info about prices: a baium ring costs 2,1kkk, AQ 600kk, frint 400kk, top s84 weapons are far beyond affordable, a full resisted moirai robe set (3x60 each part) is about 600kk, a 300 element weapon with sa is between 1kkk and 1,5kkk
you guys forget that destructor has been having High Five update all this time versus us on Freya so certain things can be easier obtainable in H5 then it is in Freya.. for 1 thing beas/bews/noble stones will be spoilable in DVC and I think there even elemental crystals will drop from mobs ?
Correction on my equipments. I have all 6+ novel vespor light armor set with 1800 elements. 8+Vespor weapon with 300 holy with haste.(Used to have +17 Vespor 300elemental haste..) And ofcourse, common epics that most of you probably has. prin, jaken, ant, and oly ring and earrings. Looking to buy baium, but can't find any available now.
How does my gears fall on your server? I am just curious. Is it average?
Please no more of those we are better than you like comments please. I am only trying to find out the difference, right? I am never saying who plays and has better. I just want the facts.
Question: Why did you go Haste and Holy on your Vesper Nagan? What about skill enchant on Crushing Pain/Rush Impact? I guess you went +duel on the Crushing and the others but Rush Impact? Doesn't it do less damage without + element?
Also the Haste? If is really much better than focus? Doesn't a Doombringer with True Berserker toggle on, full buffs with songs and dances, and Trigger haste subclass skill almost hit the maximum attack speed cap anyway? Only reason I can see is for PvP skill speed.
Also a Korean friend told me that all the Soul Hound's were crying about the skill nerfs. How bad was it? How long did it take them to adapt? :)
Finally how do you feel about NC Soft changing the game so much? As in not that you can understand why or agree with them to some degree, but how do you personally feel about it all? Obviously you play Kamael which is one of the most unique races in game. How do you feel about losing all of that?
Anyway another point, I've seen it first hand. I'll say this for the benefit of the western L2'ers. No one here has the kind of gear the Koreans have, trust me. These guys have insane gear, it's like a private (free) server in some of those PvP clans.
Only like the top 5% of players can even claim to be in the same league as these guys. Seriously, leave your ego at home, you just end up looking clueless...
just a guess but I think he didn't had holy on his weapon when he was still in a pvp clan and only changed it to holy after joining a pve clan & hunt now all the time in DVC (mostly dark/earth mobs) ?
Nah, it is doable, kind of. I am in a pve clan and it is very well possible to get that gear. Only real problem is getting all the crystals go get the weapon to 300 and the armor maxed out, the rest is achievable. Of course farming ALL the main armor pieces to craft vesper armor is hard (except robes), but you can easily get recs+mats for everything else, and use the main armor pieces you get to make a buy shop. We have a lot of people in clan/ally now with vesper armor, some of them even noble (via SoI quests). If you regularly do Tiat/Frintezza/Zaken, you can also get armor and weapons as drops, even Vorpal armor. Epics? Frint is easy to get, now that the raid is instanced. AQ is usually locked down by somebody, but the ring has become cheap enough that you can buy it in Giran. Zaken is also buyable, if you save up money long enough. Oly rings/earrings are easy to get and will even have a longer timer in the next update.
So, Vesper set+Vesper weapon (at least without maxed out element) and 1-2 epics plus oly epics is something everybody can get. Not easy, mind you, but it is doable.
It may be doable but its not what people in top clans do. Most of them either ebayed or had lots of people give them gear.
This gear on our servers doesnt exist,only the few top toons in each top clan may have them and almost all of them did them through ebay/bottrains.Any player on na servers can confirm there is no way a legit player to have this gear and im talking about players that play everyday more than 6 hours.
Can you inform us how you made this gear?How many hours do you play everyday?Since you are in a pve clan,how you got your epics?Where did you find adena for all the vesper parts you broke to +6(and where did you find the parts too,since if +6 armors are a comon thing in Korea,you need non stop crafting to produce all those parts,meaning you need endless mats and key mats,are there so many korean players who play L2 only to spoil/manor from day to night?
Where did you find the elemental stones and crys?If drop rate is same as here and sod/soi has same rooms,assuming you had full resist also on your previous armor,its very hard for me to understand how you farmed the stones.
I can just tell you that solo aoe in gc makes around 4-5 stones in 5 hours(only if you find the rooms free),duo xp in delusion makes 4-5 stones in 6 hours,aoe at fog on 3-4 man group on beetles/mercainerys spot(if ever spot free) makes 4-5 stones on each player and 1 room in sod gives 2 crys in 12 hours(assuming you are alive all time and dont need to go sleep/work).
For spoiling vesper mats,i have tried on mos and soa,since you need a full party to go, spoils are splitted among members,that makes really a long time untill everyone will have enough parts to start crafting.With X1 rates,all these make sense only if you box a full party and keep all spoils/drops,but without program that's not possible,so explain us please how you do it in Korea.
I didn't get all the money in one day you know. Constantly upgrade little by little. I have bad experience with oe myself, so never do it myself. I'd rather buy ones from who have succeded.
Remeber we have more population of players than you guys do. More people, more availability. that's just given.
I have three other characters for just buy and sell to and I do try to go to most of epic raids to make money.
Your community board is down, that's the down side of your server. Our community board is VERY active. I search for quick sell and buy them cheap and sell them with higher margins too.
Even in our server, we have people that makes same complains that you are making that they never can get the right equipment. They never have enough money.. and yet I am sure there must people like me who makes just enough to keep up with every update just for playing games. I never looked around and spend cash.
We have greater numbers of people playing than you guys do. I've been searching some market price on chronos too. many weapons and armors are at similar price when we were at your stage, however, I noticed that the epics are whole lot cheaper than us(about 5 times less), and yet elemental crystals are about 10times more expensive.
That's probably have to do with the population of the server. Since we have many players, we are have many available equipments and elements, yet epics are limitted due to the same factor, the population.
And just like some of you use ebays, people who's addicted on oe will spends lots of cash. We have many of them too.
Question: Why did you go Haste and Holy on your Vesper Nagan? What about skill enchant on Crushing Pain/Rush Impact? I guess you went +duel on the Crushing and the others but Rush Impact? Doesn't it do less damage without + element?
Also the Haste? If is really much better than focus? Doesn't a Doombringer with True Berserker toggle on, full buffs with songs and dances, and Trigger haste subclass skill almost hit the maximum attack speed cap anyway? Only reason I can see is for PvP skill speed.
Also a Korean friend told me that all the Soul Hound's were crying about the skill nerfs. How bad was it? How long did it take them to adapt? :)
Finally how do you feel about NC Soft changing the game so much? As in not that you can understand why or agree with them to some degree, but how do you personally feel about it all? Obviously you play Kamael which is one of the most unique races in game. How do you feel about losing all of that?
Anyway another point, I've seen it first hand. I'll say this for the benefit of the western L2'ers. No one here has the kind of gear the Koreans have, trust me. These guys have insane gear, it's like a private (free) server in some of those PvP clans.
Only like the top 5% of players can even claim to be in the same league as these guys. Seriously, leave your ego at home, you just end up looking clueless...
When almost every PvP players have 300 elemantal on the armor, element attack is garbage.
yeah doable, but to call it "common" gear would be a big exaggeration
@Destructor we don't have the dimensional merchant stuff here, means, our enchant success rate is the basic one, enchanting armor to +6 is so expensive, that trying is even futile for the normal player. Same with high grade weapons.
Example: a blessed enchant armor scroll costs 55kk Adena
a blessed enchant weapon 350-400kk
to get an info about prices: a baium ring costs 2,1kkk, AQ 600kk, frint 400kk, top s84 weapons are far beyond affordable, a full resisted moirai robe set (3x60 each part) is about 600kk, a 300 element weapon with sa is between 1kkk and 1,5kkk
for you info :)
Well it got little bit cheaper with us, but that was how much it was with us also when we were in your current stage. It's not much different.
And trust me. The chance of making 6+ oe on anything with us is not any easier than you guys. It's just that we have more people trying for it.
Think about the population we have.. we have whole lot more players than you guys do..
Question: Why did you go Haste and Holy on your Vesper Nagan? What about skill enchant on Crushing Pain/Rush Impact? I guess you went +duel on the Crushing and the others but Rush Impact? Doesn't it do less damage without + element?
Also the Haste? If is really much better than focus? Doesn't a Doombringer with True Berserker toggle on, full buffs with songs and dances, and Trigger haste subclass skill almost hit the maximum attack speed cap anyway? Only reason I can see is for PvP skill speed.
Also a Korean friend told me that all the Soul Hound's were crying about the skill nerfs. How bad was it? How long did it take them to adapt? :)
Finally how do you feel about NC Soft changing the game so much? As in not that you can understand why or agree with them to some degree, but how do you personally feel about it all? Obviously you play Kamael which is one of the most unique races in game. How do you feel about losing all of that?
Anyway another point, I've seen it first hand. I'll say this for the benefit of the western L2'ers. No one here has the kind of gear the Koreans have, trust me. These guys have insane gear, it's like a private (free) server in some of those PvP clans.
Only like the top 5% of players can even claim to be in the same league as these guys. Seriously, leave your ego at home, you just end up looking clueless...
Haste is for PvP, foucus is for PvE.. you will see the difference once use it.
just a guess but I think he didn't had holy on his weapon when he was still in a pvp clan and only changed it to holy after joining a pve clan & hunt now all the time in DVC (mostly dark/earth mobs) ?
I have three other characters for just buy and sell to and I do try to go to most of epic raids to make money.
Your community board is down, that's the down side of your server. Our community board is VERY active. I search for quick sell and buy them cheap and sell them with higher margins too.
And just like some of you use ebays, people who's addicted on oe will spends lots of cash. We have many of them too.
-This means you have 4 accounts?1 for your main to go xp and 3 for shops?That means a player needs to pay 4 accounts to be able to make profit in l2.
-About community board,i dont know about it,how to use it and what it must be done.
-About making money from raiding,dont you have maximum instances zone all the time like we do?Its everyday story a cc starts for raiding and ends split because cant enter in raid....
-You say people are addicted on oe and spend lots of cash,are you saying you also have ebay there?
Question: Why did you go Haste and Holy on your Vesper Nagan? What about skill enchant on Crushing Pain/Rush Impact? I guess you went +duel on the Crushing and the others but Rush Impact? Doesn't it do less damage without + element?
Also the Haste? If is really much better than focus? Doesn't a Doombringer with True Berserker toggle on, full buffs with songs and dances, and Trigger haste subclass skill almost hit the maximum attack speed cap anyway? Only reason I can see is for PvP skill speed.
Yes it is mainly for PvP skills, but that's not all to it. Hard to explain but if you use it for awhile, you will see why many of us use haste instead of focus. Haste is for PvP, focus is for PvE. We still go for 300 for those who's not prepared for 1800 elemants. but when many of them are 1200 and above, the additional elemantal attack on skill means nothing. I go for pvp on all skills. both time on disarm and mass disarm. Rush impact I used to have chance, but with vorpal, it's hard to get anyone stunned even with some epics, so I changed to PvP on that too.
Also a Korean friend told me that all the Soul Hound's were crying about the skill nerfs. How bad was it? How long did it take them to adapt? :)
Some are still bit*hing about it. But most adopted pretty quickly.
Finally how do you feel about NC Soft changing the game so much? As in not that you can understand why or agree with them to some degree, but how do you personally feel about it all? Obviously you play Kamael which is one of the most unique races in game. How do you feel about losing all of that?
I personally feel like to open up a skull of the dev head to peak inside of his brain.
Anyway another point, I've seen it first hand. I'll say this for the benefit of the western L2'ers. No one here has the kind of gear the Koreans have, trust me. These guys have insane gear, it's like a private (free) server in some of those PvP clans.
Only like the top 5% of players can even claim to be in the same league as these guys. Seriously, leave your ego at home, you just end up looking clueless...
After observing few sieges in past couple of days.. I am not saying we are better players, but yes we are way better equipped.
-This means you have 4 accounts?1 for your main to go xp and 3 for shops?That means a player needs to pay 4 accounts to be able to make profit in l2.
I said three characters not three accounts. (Although I do have three accounts,not four) I use three different characters to buy and sell.. one will only buy and the other will only sell. Three accounts I have is not to make money, it's to have what you call it a box for different fun. I play other characters too just for fun of it. Many of us have box too. but often for different purpose. and yes I do utilize them to make money too.
I have lvl 83 SD pretty well equipped and play lots of epics with it too. I go three different frin and freya per day when I can with my three different characters. I have 82 prophet soon to be 83. I also go lots of epics with it too. going zaken & more three times a day(or within time before resets) and many other epics.. ofcourse will make you more money.
-About community board,i dont know about it,how to use it and what it must be done.
This is what's killing your community in my opinion.
-About making money from raiding,dont you have maximum instances zone all the time like we do?Its everyday story a cc starts for raiding and ends split because cant enter in raid....
Everything you have is what we had. nothing different.
-You say people are addicted on oe and spend lots of cash,are you saying you also have ebay there?
Then you are false. I know a lot of people having this stuff, and even a better one on retail, and of course I talk about legit peoples ;)
It's not why you don't get this stuff that's it's impossible. What you forgot, it is that destructor play for a long time, so he got more than enough time to gather money :p
And Lol @ epics are only for PvP Clan. With adena, anyone could buy them at Giran / Aden
You know a lot of legit people having +6 noble vesper or +6 vorpal sets fully attributed????
Which server are you playing on?The ones i know are only current clan leaders toons or ex clan leaders that grabed the oportunity to farm Bosses and keep all for them and not split with clannies add to them the last ebayers/botters that skiped ban, its like 10 toons on server.
Destructor may play for a long time but we do also.Ofc,on his server,the opportunitys for legit player making adena maybe were much higher(maybe frequent rewarding events instead of our LOL ead events,maybe much higher population producing adena instead of our thousands banned accounts with money gone for ever).
As for epics,its supposed for a player to have either because he belongs to a pvp clan and hes active and member of good pvp party(since there always was pvp for bosses,even with instanced raids there's still pvp among ccs to enters raids first and dont get maximum instances zone cap),either he needs to buy them,but how much adena can he constantly produce to buy everything?????
On Naia server since it was announced the high5 pts and the GOD news,noone buys anything.
Comon players with +6 vesper sets?Not even with +6 dynasty sets!
@destructor, just curious, but is 3rd party programs any real problem in korea? im mostly thinking of programs that helps in PvP.
btw... is it just me or have this thread derailed? :P
Auto bots are used to farm and hunt. Like I have briefly talked about it on different thread, top pvp clans provide protections on hardcore farmers. farmers pay tax to the pvp clans in return. That's why they are able to get those crazy gears.
Yes we do too hate bots and try to ban them as soon as we see them.
but some of the bots that are protected by the top pvp clans are hard to get rid of.
As far as the pvp bots. We don't really have much problems.. It's just different mentality I guess. It seems with you guys, it's all about winning no matter what it takes. with us, it's to prove your skill and controls.
Most of wouldn't even use the PvP bots you guys have so much problems with.
I can't say we are 100% pvp bot free, but most will not use them even if they are available to us. What the fun of winning using bots? just don't make any sense to me.. just different mentality I guess.
Auto bots are used to farm and hunt. Like I have briefly talked about it on different thread, top pvp clans provide protections on hardcore farmers. farmers pay tax to the pvp clans in return. That's why they are able to get those crazy gears.
Yes we do too hate bots and try to ban them as soon as we see them.
but some of the bots that are protected by the top pvp clans are hard to get rid of.
As far as the pvp bots. We don't really have much problems.. It's just different mentality I guess. It seems with you guys, it's all about winning no matter what it takes. with us, it's to prove your skill and controls.
Most of wouldn't even use the PvP bots you guys have so much problems with.
I can't say we are 100% pvp bot free, but most will not use them even if they are available to us. What the fun of winning using bots? just don't make any sense to me.. just different mentality I guess.
This is true its win at all costs for a lot of the people in top pvp clans.
I have lvl 83 SD pretty well equipped and play lots of epics with it too. I go three different frin and freya per day when I can with my three different characters. I have 82 prophet soon to be 83. I also go lots of epics with it too. going zaken & more three times a day(or within time before resets) and many other epics.. ofcourse will make you more money.
something similar. couple of them.
You have cc and do 3 times per day 2 different raids and dont get stucked on maximum number instances zones?
I have failed with 2 ccs because of that,the hours/days we could raid were the same as all other people in server,so after missing tiat 3 weeks in a row people just said its not worthing it and left.
--Korean ebay too?? ok, by having bottrains,farmers,adenasellers,i can understand very well how average player has +6 vesper armor,even legitely,since there's a crowd up there to buy everything he puts on shop.The problems with our economy on na servers begun after mass banning farmers.
Most of wouldn't even use the PvP bots you guys have so much problems with.
I can't say we are 100% pvp bot free, but most will not use them even if they are available to us. What the fun of winning using bots? just don't make any sense to me.. just different mentality I guess.
Its not really a bot, its a program that auto spam cp, heals, target healers, prevent backstab, gives hide hability by lagging server, bips when a wartag is near....
the fun? to have a fake senssation that these programs users are strong players, lock any grind areas, role over people to call call them loosers. Then cry cause theres no more pvp at servers.
You have cc and do 3 times per day 2 different raids and dont get stucked on maximum number instances zones?
I have failed with 2 ccs because of that,the hours/days we could raid were the same as all other people in server,so after missing tiat 3 weeks in a row people just said its not worthing it and left.
--Korean ebay too?? ok, by having bottrains,farmers,adenasellers,i can understand very well how average player has +6 vesper armor,even legitely,since there's a crowd up there to buy everything he puts on shop.The problems with our economy on na servers begun after mass banning farmers.
each charaters are on different accounts. I have three accoutns as I have mentioned earlier.
I go epics three times per day with three different toons, not with one. since it became instance on may epics. there are many epic raid per day. frin alone would be done about 8 to 9 times a day when it resets. Freya as well and with most others too. That means if I miss one raid, there's going to be another one by another raid leader shortly. Eventually I am able to go all the raids with all of my three characters before it resets if i want to.. only if I have whole day to play though. I only play about 4 to 6 hours a day. probably more on weekends.
Its not really a bot, its a program that auto spam cp, heals, target healers, prevent backstab, gives hide hability by lagging server, bips when a wartag is near....
the fun? to have a fake senssation that these programs users are strong players, lock any grind areas, role over people to call call them loosers. Then cry cause theres no more pvp at servers.
Just curious, if two people fights. or even a group of people, if all uses the pvp programs,, who wins? Do you get any achievement by winning like that? I dont know.. Again.. it's just different mentality I guess.
each charaters are on different accounts. I have three accoutns as I have mentioned earlier.
I go epics three times per day with three different toons, not with one. since it became instance on may epics. there are many epic raid per day. frin alone would be done about 8 to 9 times a day when it resets. Freya as well and with most others too. That means if I miss one raid, there's going to be another one by another raid leader shortly. Eventually I am able to go all the raids with all of my three characters before it resets if i want to.. only if I have whole day to play though. I only play about 4 to 6 hours a day. probably more on weekends.
Yes,going to all raids means that your cc are different than ours,in our servers cc are made inside clan from clan members and since all clans have war with some other clans they dont take partys or single persons out of clan cause in case of pvp cc will be weaker.Also ,maximum number zones stops everyday cc from making a raid,since to gather all people in a cc means the hours it can be are very limited(people are from different countrys/ they come back from work on different hours,so the hours they can all be online is like 9-12 at night).The fact you all play from same country and maybe many of you can play earlier than others can make it possible.
We had a different knowledge about Korean players,propably from early videos.We thought you are geared on comons and lvl without using shots(even raiding without shots),because someone playing with x1 rates without ebay has to live with what the game gives him.We had players that did test by lvling toons without shots using only gear that would drop and comon gear to see how far the toon would go and it was clear such a player would never become geared ever(i mean geared,not +6/ecpis geared).
Here you discribe us that original korean game,was not different that ours,if not multiple boxing,ebaying and farmers companys,then no L2.That prove us,whatever this game includes(like oe armor/skills,new update gear,ect ect)is not reachable by only paying your 1 account and playing 6-8 hours everyday.
Yes,going to all raids means that your cc are different than ours,in our servers cc are made inside clan from clan members and since all clans have war with some other clans they dont take partys or single persons out of clan cause in case of pvp cc will be weaker.Also ,maximum number zones stops everyday cc from making a raid,since to gather all people in a cc means the hours it can be are very limited(people are from different countrys/ they come back from work on different hours,so the hours they can all be online is like 9-12 at night).The fact you all play from same country and maybe many of you can play earlier than others can make it possible.
We had a different knowledge about Korean players,propably from early videos.We thought you are geared on comons and lvl without using shots(even raiding without shots),because someone playing with x1 rates without ebay has to live with what the game gives him.We had players that did test by lvling toons without shots using only gear that would drop and comon gear to see how far the toon would go and it was clear such a player would never become geared ever(i mean geared,not +6/ecpis geared).
Here you discribe us that original korean game,was not different that ours,if not multiple boxing,ebaying and farmers companys,then no L2.That prove us,whatever this game includes(like oe armor/skills,new update gear,ect ect)is not reachable by only paying your 1 account and playing 6-8 hours everyday.
First of all, I don't know what cc means. I have said it numorouse times, I don't know the most of the terminology you guys use. I am slowly pickinig them up as I read more posts.
It has also been discussed in another thread I posted. We have about 65% PVE players and 35% PvP players. don't get me wrong, numbers of pvp players are probably higher still than you guys due to higher population. Some epics are only done by the PvE and some are only done by PvP. PvP used to do all good raids, that's why nc came up with an idea of instant zone for that matter. Now PvE enjoys most of the raid too.
Most PvE raid groups are random players from all over the place.
The raid leader would post a matching to get team learders. then team learders will open up a matching to get party members. Freya typically two partys, many times just one party. Frin, usually four parties. Queen ant 7 parties.. etc. Again, it's not about how we can kill epic with one party or what knot. we try to get most people involved.
Because most of you are in PvP here, it's seems you guys can't do it the way we do. Another reason I have three characters. When I was in PvP clan I still enjoyed PvE contents with other two characters.
Your reply leads to the totally different topic that I had discussed on different reply, so I'll stop here.
Just curious, if two people fights. or even a group of people, if all uses the pvp programs,, who wins? Do you get any achievement by winning like that? I dont know.. Again.. it's just different mentality I guess.
this cannot even be called mentality imo... its stupidity, but they think they are smart.
Here you discribe us that original korean game,was not different that ours,if not multiple boxing,ebaying and farmers companys,then no L2.That prove us,whatever this game includes(like oe armor/skills,new update gear,ect ect)is not reachable by only paying your 1 account and playing 6-8 hours everyday.
I never bought an items from ebay like sites. I have multiple accounts for different enjoyment. It's a different than how you guys have them as box.
Having multiple accounts is beneficial for buying and selling but not necessary.
When I only had one account initially, From the beginning, I started to buy and sell and put the toon on selling mode when I'm working or not playing. I started with 70kk adens that my friend gave me as a gift. Actually he bought me a +7great sword, but I sold it for 70kk at the time. with it, by buying and selling and going to raids, and also.. some successful oe on weapons made me extra cash. In 8 month, I had about 15kkk adens. Which I spend all in 3days on going for extream oe on weapons. I almost quit the game at the time. Took me many years since getting back on the track because I wasn't buying and selling and raiding crazy like I used to.
Some are just better businessman. It shows on games too. I never looked around and spend the actual money out of pocket for the items I have.
But I always have just enough to get what I want. I never used any kinds of bots, or auto programms, no buying on ebay like sites.
Not having community board up, I doubt if I can do the same here too though..
First of all, I don't know what cc means. I have said it numorouse times, I don't know the most of the terminology you guys use. I am slowly pickinig them up as I read more posts.
It has also been discussed in another thread I posted. We have about 65% PVE players and 35% PvP players. don't get me wrong, numbers of pvp players are probably higher still than you guys due to higher population. Some epics are only done by the PvE and some are only done by PvP. PvP used to do all good raids, that's why nc came up with an idea of instant zone for that matter. Now PvE enjoys most of the raid too.
Most PvE raid groups are random players from all over the place.
The raid leader would post a matching to get team learders. then team learders will open up a matching to get party members. Freya typically two partys, many times just one party. Frin, usually four parties. Queen ant 7 parties.. etc. Again, it's not about how we can kill epic with one party or what knot. we try to get most people involved.
Because most of you are in PvP here, it's seems you guys can't do it the way we do. Another reason I have three characters. When I was in PvP clan I still enjoyed PvE contents with other two characters.
Your reply leads to the totally different topic that I had discussed on different reply, so I'll stop here.
CC=Command Channel.
Multiple groups of players as one. You need it to enter a few of the instance zones.
Just curious, if two people fights. or even a group of people, if all uses the pvp programs,, who wins?
the winner tends to be the one with better script/programming skills + who has the most cp/hp/qhp pots to spam + best augments/stacked epics etc. to crit the most often in a row as even progs wont be able to keep up 3 mage crits in a row for example
sad state of affairs true enough but not everyone is like that :)
atarth, tbh I don't know who you mean under "we thought all koreans are in common and exp without shots". Among all russians from RU forums and from game here and also many many people from different countries that I happened to play with I haven't heard anyone saying same things as you do.
I have never thought Koreans are so poor to exp without shots. It's narrow-minded to think so. Don't get offended, plz.
Also, you should understand, koreans use party matching system widely. This is why they added command channel in this system in one of recent updates. Our servers can't really imagine how it is when party matching is full and there are actual alive people looking for actual alive people to party with. RU servers people have that, but again, they don't do epics that often using only random parties. Most of people there are in pvp clans and with wars it's hard to do random command channel for raid. Though, there are random parties in delusion for raids, they go there freely even with two-side wartags. There is unwritten rule that wars don't mean anything in delusion. It's even better to have mutual war in party to make exp loss less when you put dead person inside to wait for raid :)
@destructor: your way of playing I would call more healthy. If I could, I'd probably play there since I'm more like a pve person that enjoys only mass pvp at sieges. Here pve person can't get fun he wants, he is usually looked down at. PvP clans dominate here, PvE clans feel like they are non-factors, noobs. "winning at any cost" mentality also made this situation when pure pve clans can't exist, only radical ones with extremist regime where people might be called slightly crazy for putting themselves in such strict borders. I talk about EU server mostly. On Chronos situation is slightly better. There are good, respected pve clans there. They do engage in pvp, but they don't bring up wars. This is what is pve clan for most of us. I am not sure how PvE clan acts on your server. I guess it at least defense itself if attacked. Right?
About gear. I would say that average gear for a person from pve/little pvp clan here is set for his level with 3x60 elements on each item, safe enchant, pvp bonus, weapon 300 with SA (special ability) with pvp bonus, maybe 1-2 more weapons with 150-300. Ofc with augmentations. From epics - AQ, zaken, frint, oly ring, oly earring. I hesitate to call that average, but this is what I have in my clan on most members 83+.
In my clan there are no +6 s84 sets on anyone and no OE vesper weapons.
Clan has about 100 members, only 1 mutual war now, in ally we have 2 more big clans and they have more wars. And still I wouldn't call us real pvp clan. We're semi-pvp I would say.
And one question to destructor :)
Atarth tried to ask that, but I will rephrase. When you get your command channel ready for let's say Tiat, do you get "maximum zone limit" message? I mean Tiat instance has only 3 zones, so if 3 CCs are inside, you can't enter until one of them finishes raid and goes out. How often do you have this trouble?
I don't know how many zones Zaken and Frint have, it's visited much less than Tiat one, but with your server population you should get this message at least at the peak times, server prime-time, which is mostly in the evening.
Yes it is mainly for PvP skills, but that's not all to it. Hard to explain but if you use it for awhile, you will see why many of us use haste instead of focus. Haste is for PvP, focus is for PvE. We still go for 300 for those who's not prepared for 1800 elemants. but when many of them are 1200 and above, the additional elemantal attack on skill means nothing. I go for pvp on all skills. both time on disarm and mass disarm. Rush impact I used to have chance, but with vorpal, it's hard to get anyone stunned even with some epics, so I changed to PvP on that too.
Hmm so haste is that good eh? I thought it might be for the 2-hander weapons (especially after they boosted the speed). Not so sure about 1-hander sword/Rapier classes but for a Doombringer it makes a lot of sense. As for attribute i know exactly what you mean about terrible damage. If you can't even make 150 bonus attribute you get like 20% damage bonus or less, which is horrible.
I think the only reason people over here are so attached to +attribute on skills is because there is a big gear gap. There is always someone who doesn't have full element defence so that guy drops fast.
Soon this should change I guess. Most of my melee skills on Soul Hound are already +duel because dark is so common.
I personally feel like to open up a skull of the dev head to peak inside of his brain.
Hah! I figured as much. :)
Anyone who plays Kamael would feel that way for sure, it's so unique. The truth is most of the people playing probably like the game the way it is (they would not be playing if that wasn't true). This is why people are so upset here.
People play Lineage 2, despite all it's problems, because it is Lineage 2, not something else. High 5 was a massive step in the right direction and I don't know of anyone who doesn't agree that it made things better. This is why GoD is even more insane from this perspective.
I'm sure many people here also feel as you do and would like to look inside the heads of the devs and find out why they think this is the best thing for the game...
And one question to destructor :)
Atarth tried to ask that, but I will rephrase. When you get your command channel ready for let's say Tiat, do you get "maximum zone limit" message? I mean Tiat instance has only 3 zones, so if 3 CCs are inside, you can't enter until one of them finishes raid and goes out. How often do you have this trouble?
I don't know how many zones Zaken and Frint have, it's visited much less than Tiat one, but with your server population you should get this message at least at the peak times, server prime-time, which is mostly in the evening.
Very rare, If people see one cc post a matching for raid, they will simply not post another cc. You will see no more than two cc at a time.
Simply there will be another after they are done. I believe there are about 4 to 8 different cc's per raid a day, usually no more than two cc's at a time.
With you guys, no matter how many are going, it seems each clans are going for the raid each on their own at same time and gets in to this problem.
We randomly set up party. Party members are from many different clans. PvP clan members are not going to be invited in PvE party though. PvP clans usually don't do the raid that PvE does. There's mutual agreement between PvE clans and PvP clans, that some raids are only doable by the PvE only, thus we don't have the problems that you guys do.
With you guys, no matter how many are going, it seems each clans are going for the raid each on their own at same time and gets in to this problem.
We randomly set up party. Party members are from many different clans.
How do you share the drops and (especially) level the crystals?
How do you share the drops and (especially) level the crystals?
We auction them and divide all income among all party members.
party leders gather the opinions of party memebers to wether auction the drops within cc members that went to the raid, or to auction it openly to the whole server. Then cc leader will announce wether to gather around at the temple(within cc only) or at the fantasy island(open to the server).
For example, if frin, typically four parties of 36 people will equally share the income from auctioned drop itmes.
Typically takes about 10 min to auction them all within cc members. If auctioned publically, then the cc leader post an auction notice on the community board(yes, yours is not working..) and gives about 10 min for others to participate.
lvl crystals? one get lvl'd up randomly after killing the boss? whatever you bring, and if it gets lvl'd up, all will congrats you. It's yours, you brough it.
for some raid like night zaken that allows the whole party that hit last lvl up crystal, there's assigned party for that purpose and the lvl'd crystals from that party would be auctioned. No others are allowed to bring the crystals in that case. Only the assigned party from the cc will hit last in that case for 100% success. Players in the assigned party will get paid for the crystals that they have brought and would be collected by the cc to be auctioned.
How do you make sure that the earring won't fall into the inventory of a toon you will never see again?
Happens very rarely, only the cc leader is allowed to pick up an item. Yes we do get that too very rarely, very rarely. but by changing the looting rights I guess, I don't know how, but cc leaders changes it so that only he can pick them up. then the auction begins.
Ok, there are frint, zaken (day 60, night 60, day 83), aq, tiat, freya normal, freya extreme, core, orfen (yes, they are epics :D), baium, antharas, valakas. What else? I guess that's it.
So, what of this is done by pve clans only and what is by pvp clans?
I really want to know the picture :)
For example we do Tiat as clan twice a week, but all other clans (big enough to make parties or allied with another clan) want to do that too. In big clans like X, GF, Rage on Naia each clan has constant CCs inside. Constant CC is 3 parties, so it's 27 people, clan lvl 11 can hold up to 200 ppl (?). So it can be 7 constant CCs inside one clan and all of them might want to do that raid.
In case of raid where you need at least 4 parties to enter, constant CC logs alt toons to fill up 4th party and when they enter, they log them out and kill the raid with their 3 const parties.
That's why we get that problem with max instance zones.
I don't think other clans, constant command channels would ever think to drop this raid so pve clans can do them.
And I'm a noob, but I would really want to know how to set up CC the way when only CC leader can pick up :)
atarth, tbh I don't know who you mean under "we thought all koreans are in common and exp without shots". Among all russians from RU forums and from game here and also many many people from different countries that I happened to play with I haven't heard anyone saying same things as you do.
I have never thought Koreans are so poor to exp without shots. It's narrow-minded to think so. Don't get offended, plz.
Also, you should understand, koreans use party matching system widely. This is why they added command channel in this system in one of recent updates. Our servers can't really imagine how it is when party matching is full and there are actual alive people looking for actual alive people to party with. RU servers people have that, but again, they don't do epics that often using only random parties. Most of people there are in pvp clans and with wars it's hard to do random command channel for raid. Though, there are random parties in delusion for raids, they go there freely even with two-side wartags. There is unwritten rule that wars don't mean anything in delusion. It's even better to have mutual war in party to make exp loss less when you put dead person inside to wait for raid :)
I've played on Devianne and Franz servers before Naia,in mediums and top clans,everyone believed(i dont know how,maybe someone sayed it as a rumor and then everyone thought its true?)that on korean servers there is no bot/ebay at all and since all players play-lvl legitely they gear their toons with what the can make from the game and they make some ''top items'' through several events.(Elmar on ellybelly was writing often about events that filled players with vesper weapons,or 300 crys,not just 1 reward per server).
I remember about suggestions for how to make adena in L2 in old sites people mentioning that we should play L2 like koreans do,without using shots staying on green/blue mobs that can be killed without shots and pots to make money from mobs drops,also stay and grind in the same spot to avoid teleport costs ect,dlvl your toon so you dont need to buy new gear and stay farm for more the lower places untill you make enough money for your armor ect..as an answer to players that claimed that is not possible to raise money with poor mobs adena drop/fail in craft system ect ect ect.
Such an experiment was also published in ellybelly's site shortly before site's closed and
you can view such toons' differences in our servers,they can afford now dynasty with some attribute and a icarus 150+ weapon when most of server is on vesper/vorpal 3/60 with vesp 300 weapon.
Destructor 's words are a revolution to what we knew about L2,because he admits ebay/bot/adenasellers go together with korean L2 too.He said top pvp clans protect the farmers in exchange for mats/items/adena (free or cheaper prices?)and this is so similar with the ''agreements'' we know there have been in our servers.He says that he never ebayed/bot to make his gear,but this is irrelevent.Because the important thing is,others did.And when you have players in game with billions in their invetory rdy to spent at anytime,you can sell almost anything.When there are players that always can afford to pay for +++++items,there will be always player that will try oe items for them.When there are bottrainers that sell thousands of mats everyday in market,people can craft more and more,more rare/+6 items will be on server.How many days someone needed to sell anything on giran's market 2-3 years ago,when ebay was cheap and farmets trains were everywhere?Less than 1 day.How many months now someone needs to sell an item(if it will be sold at all)?
It seems we dont have a single officiel server with 0 bot/ebay to see if the achievments game puts in every update are possible to be done.
Destruction also provides with important information for a game feature we never had and by using it they can make random comand channels and split/auction drops among players.So,by loging and watching if comand chanel for raiding is formed,a player has something to do in game and doesnt need to be inside a specific clan or party to be able to raid and get loot.He doesnt tell us what happens when random players join such cc and make mistakes/lag and cause the failure of the raid(which is a very strong reason also we prefer going on raids with same ''trusted'' people ).
But anyway,i suppose in our servers this would hardly work,since players are from different countrys/timezones and most of them work untill evening.
As about the ''unwritten delusion rule about wars'',i can say to you,on na servers they ban you and your party if they suspect you did xp even with 1 enemy toon.It's really funny because many times we cant do something because we seek 1 class and the only ones logged are in enemy clans.With new areas that all demand to have certain class for specific skill,the result is most of our time online is spent on searching for the class we miss and if no luck,go do some xping in an old solo place again,get bored and logoff.
Ok, there are frint, zaken (day 60, night 60, day 83), aq, tiat, freya normal, freya extreme, core, orfen (yes, they are epics :D), baium, antharas, valakas. What else? I guess that's it.
So, what of this is done by pve clans only and what is by pvp clans?
I really want to know the picture :)
For example we do Tiat as clan twice a week, but all other clans (big enough to make parties or allied with another clan) want to do that too. In big clans like X, GF, Rage on Naia each clan has constant CCs inside. Constant CC is 3 parties, so it's 27 people, clan lvl 11 can hold up to 200 ppl (?). So it can be 7 constant CCs inside one clan and all of them might want to do that raid.
In case of raid where you need at least 4 parties to enter, constant CC logs alt toons to fill up 4th party and when they enter, they log them out and kill the raid with their 3 const parties.
That's why we get that problem with max instance zones.
I don't think other clans, constant command channels would ever think to drop this raid so pve clans can do them.
And I'm a noob, but I would really want to know how to set up CC the way when only CC leader can pick up :)
All the field raid are done by PvE. All the instance are done by both. Antharas, valakas, baium are only for PvP.
Destructor 's words are a revolution to what we knew about L2
Tbh for me his words are not a revolution. I mean bot-e-bay-wise. I never had any illusion that in Korea all servers are bot free, all are happy, all are smiling and signing :) Also I have never thought they exp without shots to save up for gear, neither did my friends.
Destruction also provides with important information for a game feature we never had and by using it they can make random comand channels and split/auction drops among players.So,by loging and watching if comand chanel for raiding is formed,a player has something to do in game and doesnt need to be inside a specific clan or party to be able to raid and get loot.He doesnt tell us what happens when random players join such cc and make mistakes/lag and cause the failure of the raid(which is a very strong reason also we prefer going on raids with same ''trusted'' people ).
But anyway,i suppose in our servers this would hardly work,since players are from different countrys/timezones and most of them work untill evening.
We HAVE that feature. It is called party matching system. Button is located in the left bottom corner of your game window - 2 blue "people" with an arrow above their heads.
What stops you from using it? Start using it. People will see "looking for party" above your head and will use it too, maybe this way you can make more people to use it every day.
If you take to Tiat 45 ppl, alive people and few get disconnected or leave you won't ruin the raid. Ofc they will cause some trouble, but it's doable. If you remove one-two supports from 3 parties that are doing Tiat here on our server (and not rarely with boxed toons), yes, it might ruin the raid. Maybe he will clear this up, if he finishes reading this wall of text :D
As to auction - this goes on community boards or without using it. Read what he says. Auction is simple "saying how much you want to pay" thing, at least I understood it so. It might be held not publicly, so only command channel can participate. Or they can sell it using community boards and split the money.
As about the ''unwritten delusion rule about wars'',i can say to you,on na servers they ban you and your party if they suspect you did xp even with 1 enemy toon.
Who? The clan leader of the clan you're in? Or ban like real ban by NCsoft? It's up to the clan to decide who can do what. You can't say for all people that they can't exp with enemies. In every clan situaion is different. I told about delusion on RU srvers for Destructor so he has an image of how party matching system is used there.
Am I misunderstanding you or are you saying that only top PvP clans are doing Tiat? or you talking about raids like Baium and Anty?
No. If you read once again you will see that I say I am not in top clan and we do Tiat. The thing is, we have many clans on server and most of them are doing Tiat on their own. There is no way top pvp clans will say "ok, let's leave tiat for pve clans only". Destructor said they have something like an agreement, again maybe something like unwritten law, that some raids are only done by pvp clans and some are left for pve clans. Don't forget that he told they have like 65% of PvE players on the server. I bet our percentage will be like 10% pve, 90% pvp.
All the field raid are done by PvE. All the instance are done by both. Antharas, valakas, baium are only for PvP. Looks about like on our servers, just field raids with good drops are done by bot trains, bot people who farm around the clock. Some of them are in pvp clans, some are not in any clans and just have their fun in doing raids with their own little "train". At least it was so until recently. Ofc pve and pvp clans can do field raids too when they want.
Also you've gotta meet pvp clans on Tiat and have problem with zones... I bet pvp clans don't use party matching system to make Command Channel.
Sorry that we torture you like this, but you're like a glass of water after 6 years in desert. I, personally, really wanted to know how people play in Korea and now I have an opportunity to ask questions and get answers.
So, there is no such thing like a const party, or regular party of a group of people even in pvp clans? You said you were in pvp clan, you always made random parties there too? Or you sticked to same people there? Like raiding, sieging, exping with rather same group all the time.
Sorry that we torture you like this, but you're like a glass of water after 6 years in desert :) I, personally, really wanted to know how people play in Korea and now I have an opportunity to ask questions and get answers :)
So, there is no such thing like a const party, or regular party of a group of people even in pvp clans? You said you were in pvp clan, you always made random parties there too? Or you sticked to same people there? Like raiding, sieging, exping with rather same group all the time.
Some times you end up with same people, but not intentionally. It's just that you end up with them because they are the only ones available at the time. Mostly it's random. Whoever is available will be in the party.
Our attack party (when I was in PvP) was also random. Hunt party in the PvP is also random. depends on whoever is available within the alliance.
Like I have said numorous of times, you don't find anybody that would screw up the party at such a level with us. Everyone knows what their role is in the party. And very rarely if we get the bad one, we will teach them to be good, from what to do to how to make a macro and etc.. so that the bad one becomes the good one later.
Some of the PvE hunt party goes on and on and on for days... with replacement. It's possible because they are replaced constanly by whoever are available.
You start the party with certain memebers but at the end, there are totally new 9 people in the party usually.
Some of you give me an excuse of being in different time zone for not being able to make up a random party. I disagree, even though we are in same time zone, our hunt party goes on for more than a day often, not everyone goes to sleep at same time. The language barrier, maybe, but not due to time zone. You actually have better chance of making a good random party BECAUSE you have different time zone unlike us.
Many boxed buffers, most people are in pvp clans, different mentalities, language barrier... reasons are numerous but none excuses us for not being able to make random parties :)
Don't leave us yet, we will think of more questions to you as a precious korean person that can tell The Truth about korean servers :P
Many boxed buffers, most people are in pvp clans, different mentalities, language barrier... reasons are numerous but none excuses us for not being able to make random parties :)
Don't leave us yet, we will think of more questions to you as a precious korean person that can tell The Truth about korean servers :P
I play on Korean servers with Koreans, and I am Korean. But I don't live in Korea. I live in NYC,NY. USA. Just for you to know... You can see what's it like on Korean servers first hand if you live near NY, and if my time allows it. ;)
The only people who shout about finding xp in random party are the ones that want to lvl a toon to a certain lvl and then boxed it/sell it.All these years,ive seen it hundreads of times.
Also people who play only on vacations time.Both cases,are a waste ,since its a matter of time for them to dissapear and you are going to be left again alone with your toon.And since L2 became more and more a game you need to have at least 9man party to do things,we tried to form these constant partys where you suppose to learn each other,lvl together,pvp together and become a stronger group to face more challenges in the future,if your toon evolves and members of your party are replaced by weaker ones,then its like your progress didnt happen,since you dont ''solo'' anything anymore,not pve not pvp.
The only people who shout about finding xp in random party are the ones that want to lvl a toon to a certain lvl and then boxed it/sell it.All these years,ive seen it hundreads of times.
Also people who play only on vacations time.Both cases,are a waste ,since its a matter of time for them to dissapear and you are going to be left again alone with your toon.And since L2 became more and more a game you need to have at least 9man party to do things,we tried to form these constant partys where you suppose to learn each other,lvl together,pvp together and become a stronger group to face more challenges in the future,if your toon evolves and members of your party are replaced by weaker ones,then its like your progress didnt happen,since you dont ''solo'' anything anymore,not pve not pvp.
In random, doesn't matter who comes and goes, and don't matter if they only play on vacation or just a month in a year. Because you are still hung up on constant party.. you don't see the picture.
Who cares if they dispears and don't ever come back if there are still others. Because you don't give chance to others.. you are left with only limited people to play with.. I don't understand why you don't understand this simple fact.
I play on Korean servers with Koreans, and I am Korean. But I don't live in Korea. I live in NYC,NY. USA. Just for you to know... You can see what's it like on Korean servers first hand if you live near NY, and if my time allows it. ;)
On goha.ru we have people living in Russia but playing on Korean servers. Ofc it's not totally legit, cause you need some number of insurance or whatever to prove you're who you are to play there. They buy those numbers somehow and play.
In theory I would love to play there, but totally unfamiliar language that I can't even retype and put into google translator, like I can do to ltalian, german and so on, scares me a lot :)
In random, doesn't matter who comes and goes, and don't matter if they only play on vacation or just a month in a year. Because you are still hung up on constant party.. you don't see the picture.
Who cares if they dispears and don't ever come back if there are still others. Because you don't give chance to others.. you are left with only limited people to play with.. I don't understand why you don't understand this simple fact.
the problem is we have too few ppl i think and the problem that you never know when your random members will leave which really annoys ppl who wants to go hardcore XP grinds for several hours.
also, while i still played on Kain server some 3 years ago, random parties were still happening although rarely. when moving to franz they almost only had constant parties cause they argued that constants once they worked together will become more efficient then random parties in PvP and since it worked well for PvP clans the PvE have taken after it.
also, bots, many constants would eventually get to trust each other fairly alot, and if they knew they couldn't be online a certain time, they gave their pass to others in constant they could be logged on bot so they could still XP.
but i guess that the simplest reason is that the party matching feature never got adopted by the community here on NA/EU.
my first good clan RDogs, we had alot of random parties and we based our recruitments from those parties, inviting the good players we found. but when random parties became less common our clan started to decline as we still didnt openly requite new ppl. we were one of the best PvP clans on Kain in C4 but with little new ppl and too many old leaving it died too soon :(
actually destructor, on NA/EU ... PvP clans have all rights and PvE clan have the right to shut up or flag (and die) if they are unhappy with it :p
Pretty much this, yes. If tomorrow all PvE clans would disappear, most people wouldn't even notice. And I'm not sure if anything of value would be lost.
Pretty much this, yes. If tomorrow all PvE clans would disappear, most people wouldn't even notice. And I'm not sure if anything of value would be lost.
IF tomorrow all pvp clans Disappear I am sure the pve clans and most people would not care.
Yeah, but if pvp clans dissapear, pve clans will disappear too, cause pve clans are really small percentage here and they won't survive on empty server.
In random, doesn't matter who comes and goes, and don't matter if they only play on vacation or just a month in a year. Because you are still hung up on constant party.. you don't see the picture.
Who cares if they dispears and don't ever come back if there are still others. Because you don't give chance to others.. you are left with only limited people to play with.. I don't understand why you don't understand this simple fact.
People who will leave you after sometime for various reasons(sell toon/end of vacations ect)are a waste of time because the new people that willl come again searching for xp/gear,they will be again lower lvls with poor gear and you will have to plvl and gear them all over,when they will dissapear,you will again need to find new people that are again low lvls and so on..
Party needs to hit 84-85 and get geared in all members to become a strong party.In our servers we had untill recently problem to go SOA and Freya,because many partys didnt got 80-82+ all supports,since supports are the classes that many people choose because they think others will lvl them and they leave sometime after.
I had party with dozens of supports all these years and ended to lvl again and again new people for raiding,so i know what im talking about.
Did your servers had ban hammers?Major reason for our servers' lack of supports are the thousands of bans.Major reason for our poorely geared toons and our poor market is also the banhammer.
All legits wanted to see every bot banned,but since nothing else replaced the banned classes and the banned adenas,this is the result.
i think u guys are missing destructors point a bit.....
there is one fundamental difference.
in NA u will only party if it directly benifits u. If the xp is to low, u die, dont get drops, etc. u say whats the point?
in korea its about the party and the experience. They want too pass on how to play the game to everyone. If they die, they dont get good xp, drops, but ppl learn to play and increase the games benifits, then its a good party and ppl think theve had a good experience.
correct me if im wrong destructor...
(btw im asian(indonesian to be exact) so im used to this problem lol)
Yeah, but if pvp clans dissapear, pve clans will disappear too, cause pve clans are really small percentage here and they won't survive on empty server.
lol you dreaming 70% of both servers are PVE only clans. Look naia only 2 big clans X and SH mb fr are pvp only rest are pve. I dont know what server you from but you dont seem to know any thing.
Yeah, I am on Naia and I'm sorry if you see there only X and SH as pvp clans :D
I call all clans that have at least 1 war - pvp clans. There are much more than what you called.
Alliances: rage, serenity, doom, kenig, synergy, lasthope and so on. Those are from the top of my head.
It is you, who doesn't know anything. I bet you're from X or SH? I know the type, those ppl claim they are the only pvp people on server, the rest are non-factor carebears. They cried for merge to get more pvp, and yeah, they have merge now, where is PvP? Occasional Marti party pvping Exequtor party on scheduled basis and some fraps from sieges? That's all.
Chat from X ally:
guy#1: hey, guy#2, why you pass by when I pvp with 2 wartags?
guy#2:sorry, man, I'm doing quest.
guy#1: wtf? you don't have war with them? you just pass by them if you don't want to pvp?
guy#2: yeah, they don't touch me, I don't touch them. it's not always pvp. sometimes I want exp and they want too, so we just don't touch each other. when I finish my quest, I can help you
{here greek trash talk starts, in caps, with malakas and so on}
(names are not real ofc :D )
During the rest time I see many of them in delusion blocking all instance zones there at peak times of server. That's true pvp location :)
in NA u will only party if it directly benifits u. If the xp is to low, u die, dont get drops, etc. u say whats the point?
Actually, I only party if it benefits my clan or ally, with an exception for people I consider friends. Everyone else can take a hike; my time is already limited as it is.
Pretty much this, yes. If tomorrow all PvE clans would disappear, most people wouldn't even notice. And I'm not sure if anything of value would be lost.
Lol you aren't a true dorf. If tomorrow all PvE clans disappeared, the market would crash.