WARNING: This post is meant for a legit audience, does not contain useful information for the bots ! Also, it can be fairly technical, so if you dont know much about computers, you may wish to skip to conclusions and ask your local computer guru to confirm the technical reasoning.
Definitions:
GPRS: Is also called 2.5G something inbetween 2G and 3G but is generally much slower than 3G, it can offer speeds up to 80 kbps, however, that is the total throughput, including both UL and DL and tipically it has a ratio of 4:1, meaning out of the 80 kbps only 20 are for upload, 25% of the total theoretical capacity, rest (60 kbps) being reserved for download.
Lag: In real-time applications, the term is used when the application fails to respond in a timely fashion to inputs. This means, in l2 terms, when you click and the char reacts with delays, sometimes severe, sometimes doesnt even seem to move in your client. In extreme cases, there can be lag in chat, when you type something and it appears after a long time, sometimes minutes.
Fake "hide": Fake hide is a way of tricking the server into thinking that you lag hard and make you invisible from other players. Daggers have this genuine skill ("Hide" skill), but using bot programs, every cheater can do it in order to gain advantages in PvP.
Logs: A way of storing information about events, like where some char was at a certain moment, what it typed in chat, etc for further analysis, later.
Pattern-matching: A way of searching a big chunk of data in an automatic way, using a program or script. If we have thousands of kilometers of log data we cant really read it manually, and for this we use some scripts to search the log for us and find some predefined occurences, and to highlight them or even take automatic actions based on what is found.
Facts: You go in a trip and it happens to be siege day, all you have with you is a netbook with Atom N270 and a GPRS mobile connection (3G and 4G are not available over big distances and you go in an isolated place). You log in your fame chars (only 2 out of 5 accounts, because that is all that seems to work given the hardware and connection) to stay dead in siege. Both are dressed in comon C grade, one level 48, another level 69. All seems ok except the huge lag. This is a particular kind of lag, ie, what you see is fairly current, you see ppl moving, receive chat with little delay, but what you say appears with HUGE delay, sometimes you think you are disconnected, but you can still receive other ppl or see things move, just what you send is very delayed.
That is, because the GPRS connection, while has about 80 kbps in total, the upload part, the part where you send data to the server, is severely limited, only 1/4 of the total and may be delayed by other actions too (like you partner checking mail, or something, even sending attachments...) that clog the pipe.
Now you say, this should not happen, you should be disconnected in such cases... True, but while DC does happen, it is not so often as one may think, and it is due mostly to complete loss of signal that cuts the connection altogether.
So, we established that we have some fame char (level 48 in common C gear) sitting dead in a siege with huge lag. Nothing much to notice, right ?
Wrong... There are logs and pattern-matching algorithms which are "reading" them and they see what might look like someone using fake "hide" skill in a siege area. Then, a "verification" is triggered. This is something like a "secret" protocol built in the client or game guard that can be triggered only by a GM or a program with those credentials. It expects a certain kind of reply (lets imagine it is like a sentinel asking someone for a password, if you dont know the pass or you say nothing, you fail the verification) and if that reply does not come, this means the client has been tampered with or it is entirely emulated (bot makers dont bother sometimes to keep those current and disassemble the code all the time to find those "secrets" or botters may use an old version that works with the latest crack). That may be true EXCEPT in cases of severe lag. The lag may trigger the pattern-matching programs, then the verification fails also because of the lag, it is highly unlikely the verification program will wait for 2 min+ for a reply and will raise the FAIL flag. Then, the automated GM will go to the next step in the algorithm, which means baning the account. As such, you can be banned for lag.
Well, this may happen, no pattern-matching algorithm is perfect, not even with "secret" verification as a suplemental measure to ensure the correct detection of cheaters. However, a real GM can verify everything and see that it was not the case to use fake hide on a dead char (without party, without targetting, without even going to town), not to mention a c grade one, dressed in common c gear, that char cant do anything in a siege, no need to use any bot program. You can expect GMs to be less automated and check if you give them all the data...
Not L2 ones, they copy-paste some predefined answers, not bothering to check anything, sometimes, if you insist, they even change the story and say you have been banned for past actions (even days ago), but you havent really exped in months, didnt do any PvP, just tw quests and buy/sell, oly + ke farming and that was the only time you had sever lag and both accounts logged then have been banned, not the one you really exp hard. So:
CONCLUSIONS: While bot makers might know the "secret" answers and keep their programs current (sometimes even reusing code from the original client or GG), legits have no way to defend from automated GMs in case of lag. Nor have they any recourse, there will be automated answers, nobody will check anything. As such, logging in with SEVERE lag (i.e. you see serious delay in chat) should be avoided. Regular lag, up to 1 sec or so, should be OK, anything above may be dangerous.
How do I make my net faster ?
1. While playing L2 avoid using the internet for other applications, either from your computer or another that uses the same connection. Especially P2P programs (torrents, kazaa, kad, emule/edonkey, many others) are known to clog the upload link, also VoIP protocols (skype, video conferencing) have higher traffic priority if you have a capable router, so your l2 traffic will have a lower priority, thus creating lag in some situations.
2. Try to get a less asynchronous connection. Or with an upload of at least 128 kbps for a single client. Lower may work, as low as 32 kbps, but you are getting into the danger zone, you will lag hard in sieges, towns, aoe areas, especially in the case of a service that is not guaranteed which should be avoided or if you are using more than one client on that connection.
Buy your net if it has at least a minimal guarantee or you know for sure it works OK all the time (from a neighbour that uses the same ISP is best, because same ISP in different locations may exhibit a very different quality of service).
Remember that it is better to avoid the danger than try to get your message across to automated GMs. Chances are nobody will give a **** as they dont care about the hundreds of assists per minute, the real danger in sieges are c graders in common gear that stay dead all the time.
No, we never had any emails about GG. But, depending on where the "verification" is built-in, client or GG, since both are affected by lag, could be GG. But it is irrelevant, such a verification will fail regardless if it is on the client or GG side because the cause is lag and affects both.
To be clear, this is just to inform the legits about possible consequences of playing or staying logged with lag. It has nothing to do with a case or another, here was indeed a c grader with common c grade, and sicne GMs think that needs bot to stay dead, there is no chance in hell they will believe a level 83 titan would be legit given the same log data. So better prevent it from happening, avoid the automated GMs, dont log with lag. Even if you dont play.
M
No, we never had any emails about GG. But, depending on where the "verification" is built-in, client or GG, since both are affected by lag, could be GG. But it is irrelevant, such a verification will fail regardless if it is on the client or GG side because the cause is lag and affects both.
To be clear, this is just to inform the legits about possible consequences of playing or staying logged with lag. It has nothing to do with a case or another, here was indeed a c grader with common c grade, and sicne GMs think that needs bot to stay dead, there is no chance in hell they will believe a level 83 titan would be legit given the same log data. So better prevent it from happening, avoid the automated GMs, dont log with lag. Even if you dont play.
M
I get regular GG1404 errors and always screenshot them with date and time since my housemate was banned when using my pc (was logged in as a shop).
I have zero faith in anything ncsoft has to say about their bot detection techniques. I know 100% for sure that my pc has no bot or other software installed and still he gets a ban. gameguard and the current "detection" techniques aren't working properly, and although they p*ss off more (legit) people, nothing is done about it.
*waiting on this post being deleted as usual when I discuss this subject*
WARNING: This post is meant for a legit audience, does not contain useful information for the bots ! Also, it can be fairly technical, so if you dont know much about computers, you may wish to skip to conclusions and ask your local computer guru to confirm the technical reasoning.
why do u even post this, its asking for people to attack you based on your reputation...
edit: please learn what the "enter" key is, your posts suck to navigate through.
That is all nice and dandy, but there is a problem in all that...
The game will NOT work without GG unless it is patched. The removal of GG is INTENTIONAL and has various reasons, very few of them legit. I happened to have those pesky GG updates many times, once I got a message that GG is damaged and the game refused any input.
You cannot run L2 without GG UNKNOWINGLY, you HAVE to patch the executable somehow so it does not check GG sanity, or simulate GG and this does not happen by chance.
While I cant rule out some valid reason for playing without GG full legit, I am CERTAIN (barring someone modifing game files -which is illegal- without your consent and knowledge on your computer) you cannot run L2 without GG by mistake. No sir, that wont be possible.
M
I play with GG since it was introduced. I do have ocasional problems, like windows pop up telling me there was a problem running GG, sometimes when i fire up second client it has from start the problem with gg, but that is happening like 3-4 times a week and I have cleints on more than one computer most of the day and night, why I dont have (in general) problems with GG and others have ? Maybe my GG is better than yours, or maybe it is because I dont cheat, i dont know...
M
i still love how Mao is the all knowing master when it comes to discussions about "How to disable GG" and "How bots really work" but yet she is 100%... o what was that word? Legit, yea that was it, 100% legit.
Hum, this is not related to GG, lag is common to both client and GG, no matter where the verification is built, GG or the client, will still fail in case of lag. However, bots wont be affected by this "verification", unless they use older versions waiting for the crack to be updated and still take the risk to log with their old version, but the "Pr0" ppl know the risk and keep their bot up to date, this is why I said this info is only useful for legits and ppl like Cabbie did very well that stopped reading at that warning.
Regarding how I know all these things, this is because I was GM, Admin and Developper for quite a few games about 6 year before I decided it took too much of my time and it was the time to enjoy a game as a player, but i see L2 is a bad choice, payd GMs here dont do 1% of what i was doing for free.
I do know how cheaters think, I was able to read their logs for 6 years, I know the passion they invest in their cheating tools, whether they buy VPNs, proxies for multis, they make scripts in firefox for automated play in browser games, they try to find all exploits possible and use them to the max, GM work is hard but fun and rewarding for ppl that have a passion for this, not those that look at it like at a job.
I do think NCNA should "hire" some voluntary GMs and give them some limited tools to check reports and forward to the payd ones only the reports that look like serious, I bet there will be many candidates and everyone will benefit, there wont be corruption because only the payd GMs will see the full picture, it will be possible to discard some reports, but as long as there are more volunteers and the reports come random, sooner or later all cheaters will pay, and this will also make it possible to see who is serious and impartial, making them a very good candidate for a real GM job, either payd or on a volunteer basis.
Yeah, NCNA does not know how to channel the passion ppl developped for this game, this is sad, we are all sad to see it dying, but all the fault lies in NCNA court :(.
Untill they will change their mind, we will see many dead fame c grade chars banned for using bot, while the hundreds of assists per minute can be done manually, because, you know, the client didnt fail the "secret" verification.
However, a real turn in the battle against cheating, asuming there is such a battle, will be when bots wont be allowed to log int he first place, not like now, we are chasing the ones that log... if we feel like it...
M
How do I make my net faster ?
1. While playing L2 avoid using the internet for other applications, either from your computer or another that uses the same connection. Especially P2P programs (torrents, kazaa, kad, emule/edonkey, many others) are known to clog the upload link, also VoIP protocols (skype, video conferencing) have higher traffic priority if you have a capable router, so your l2 traffic will have a lower priority, thus creating lag in some situations.
2. Try to get a less asynchronous connection. Or with an upload of at least 128 kbps for a single client. Lower may work, as low as 32 kbps, but you are getting into the danger zone, you will lag hard in sieges, towns, aoe areas, especially in the case of a service that is not guaranteed which should be avoided or if you are using more than one client on that connection.
Buy your net if it has at least a minimal guarantee or you know for sure it works OK all the time (from a neighbour that uses the same ISP is best, because same ISP in different locations may exhibit a very different quality of service).
Remember that it is better to avoid the danger than try to get your message across to automated GMs. Chances are nobody will give a **** as they dont care about the hundreds of assists per minute, the real danger in sieges are c graders in common gear that stay dead all the time.
You have been warned.
M
Wuut.. game lag has little or nothing to do with your net speed (ok if you have dial up it sux ballz). I have Optics 100/100, and I lag from time to time. And even when I had 4/2 the lag was the same.
About sieges.. how in the name of the lord you won't lag if there are so many ppl playing? You should get a SSD to minimize the lag. Oh and don't forget when so many ppl are using pvp bot programs... it's like seeing into future what you must do.. and all you see is 999999 ppl doing the same thing at the same time. Now that's what makes your game lag.
i still love how Mao is the all knowing master when it comes to discussions about "How to disable GG" and "How bots really work" but yet she is 100%... o what was that word? Legit, yea that was it, 100% legit.
/sarcasm
Now, to be fair, Mao's post was very light on technical details (for example, there's a specific problem with the L2 protocol which allows for the "hide" cheat to work in the first place, and which the post didn't even mention); it's basically the amount of info somebody with basic understanding on computers and the internet work would be able to deduce by themselves anyway.