As players cheered the arrival of high 5, many of us soon found out that hitting lvl 80 means that we have to pay Nevit 5.2m adena for his hour glasses. It become almost unavoidable because exp required to lvl up has been halved, therefore, Nevit's glasses is absolutely critical since it raises exp earned by 50%.
Ok, here is how Nevit is causing an economic crisis in Giran: he is destroying the currency supply of the game! Nevit charges 5.2mm per player, it is very hard for most players to farm 5.2mm adena in 2 hours (or 36.2m per 7 men party). I know I cannot, and I am very good at farming. Mats drops do not count because the deflation is caused by the lack of the money supply. Also, in additional to Nevit, players must pay for shots and pots. Effectively, no one can accumulate adena by playing this game through grinding. Lack of money supply is causing severely deflation in the L2 economy simply because no one has the necessary adena to trade!
In the past, there were two main sources injecting adena supply into the L2 economy: normal player hunting and bots. Bots have been banned (and rightfully so), but drop rate did not increase for normal players! Therefore in the past six months, play earned adena has been the main source of money supply, but now it has completely dried up!
Deflation in the virtual economy works in the same way as the deflation in the real world: prices for all tradable items drop persistently, and trading volumn plumments. You can sell severely below the crafting cost all you want, yet still no one would buy. Frankly, all craftable items have been selling below crafting cost for a while now. But now this phenomenon has become very acute: I saw vesper weapons selling at 100m (crystal value 115m assuming 15k per); I sell Dynasty light 300 element at 150m (stone lone costs 200m), yet no one wants to buy; I set up A crystal buying shop for 6000 adena (npc pays 7500), and people sell to me all the time; I receive all kinds of offers to trade through email because normal players simply do not have the currency to trade!!! "You better sell me at the price I want, because no one is buying anything!" has become the most powerful bargaining phrase in giran. If anyone says that to me in a deal, I would surrender to do the deal on that guy's terms because that phrase shows that that guy understands that L2 economy has been distorted due to illiqudity.
Accidentally, Nevit blessing is posting a severely challenge to L2's relevancy.
The solution is actually quite simple, but should be implemented urgently before delation destroy the L2 economy: increase the adena drop rate (not item drop rate), or tell Nevit to cut his hour glass price by 90%!
The solution is actually quite simple, but should be implemented urgently before delation destroy the L2 economy: increase the adena drop rate (not item drop rate), or tell Nevit to cut his hour glass price by 90%!
What about "don't use Nevit's hourglasses"? I never do, unless I'm levelling some academy char for CRPs, and even that very infrequently.
Well don't get me wrong but you don't have to pay Nevit the 5m. Before the implementation of Nevit we exped with vitality, before vitality we exped without vitality. It's true that it can add a nice bonus to your overall exp, but it's a bonus in the first place which you can chose or not.
You get 1h for free each day, with recent changes it is even possible to pause its progress, there is a free antharas/valakas 3h buff.
On your other thoughts about the prices I must fully agree.
As players cheered the arrival of high 5, many of us soon found out that hitting lvl 80 means that we have to pay Nevit 5.2m adena for his hour glasses. It become almost avoidable because exp required to lvl up has been halved, therefore, Nevit's glasses is absolutely critical since it raises exp earned by 50%.
Ok, here is how Nevit is causing an economic crisis in Giran: he is destroying the currency supply of the game! Nevit charges 5.2mm per player, it is very hard for most players to farm 5.2mm adena in 2 hours (or 36.2m per 7 men party). I know I cannot, and I am very good at farming. Mats drops do not count because the deflation is caused by the lack of the money supply. Also, in additional to Nevit, players must pay for shots and pots. Effectively, no one can accumulate adena by playing this game through grinding. Lack of money supply is causing severely deflation in the L2 economy simply because no one has the necessary adena to trade!
In the past, there were two main sources injecting adena supply into the L2 economy: normal player hunting and bots. Bots have been banned (and rightfully so), but drop rate did not increase for normal players! Therefore in the past six months, play earned adena has been the main source of money supply, but now it has completely dried up!
Deflation in the virtual economy works in the same way as the deflation in the real world: prices for all tradable items drop persistently. You can sell severely below the crafting cost all you want, yet still no one would buy. Frankly, all craftable items have been selling below crafting cost for a while now. But now this phenomenon has become very acute: I saw vesper weapons selling at 100m (crystal value 115m assuming 15k per); I sell Dynasty light 300 element at 150m (stone lone costs 200m), yet no one wants to buy; I set up A crystal buying shop for 6000 adena (npc pays 7500), and people sell to me all the time; I receive all kinds of offers to trade through email because normal players simply do not have the currency to trade!!! "You better sell me at the price I want, because no one is buying anything!" has become the most powerful bargaining phrase in giran. If anyone says that to me in a deal, I would surrender to do the deal on that guy's terms because that phrase shows that that guy understands that L2 economy has been distorted due to illiqudity.
Accidentally, Nevit blessing is posting severely challenge to L2's relevancy.
The solution is actually quite simple, but should be implemented urgently before delation destroy the L2 economy: increase the adena drop rate (not item drop rate), or tell Nevit to cut his hour glass price by 90%!
Simply:
-who needs dynasty when you have moirai (which is easier to craft than dynasty btw)
-vesper weapons are cheap due to massive farming of Tiat
-i belive most players don't buy hourglass
-everything is cheaper (stones, books) cause supply increased dramatically in Hi5
-price dropping is great thing and adena is still possible to make (but obviously not via crafting dynasty sets...)
Bots were banned (not all but a lot) -> less farmers -> less adena -> Adena in RL cost more -> ppl can't afford + afraid to be banned -> much less adena in market
At same time grear from old time (S/S80)
Ofc Nevit do not help ....
But you don't HAVE to get Nevit :)
Some people reacted negative in the idea of getting a system similar to L2ru where you can buy some things including vitality kind of pots saying that this way only rich people will lvl faster.But here you see we allready got nevits and its useless since average player cant make from game adena to pay it after 80lvl.Why the adena droping or q rewarding arent balanced with the items game offers was always my question........
I remember when there was no nevita, cut exp, double exp weekend, vitality, and **** that restored vitality. Quit crying and just don't buy it. If people want to waste their money so they can be high lvls with no gear, let them.
How do you function in RL? If you don't have the money to purchase something non-essential, you do not purchase it. Same mechanics apply to the game, jeez.
I see most of you (except Mcbuff and Fidgit) completely missed my point. I was not complaining Nevit glass at 5.2m was expensive. I have 4 dorfs sitting in town trading 24/7, so I have plenty of adena to afford it.
The point of the post is about the L2 economy! (please think on a grander scale). The constraint of adena supply is causing severe deflation, and illiquidity. Lack of currency is preventing players from trading. As inventory starts to build, players become even more reluctant to trade. Lack of trading prevents players from getting the optimal equipments that they seek for, and disposing equipments they do not need. Gradually disappointed players start to leave game.
Mcbuff, I disagree with your view that AA drains adena from the system. Yes, AA and S gems are expensive, however unlike Nevit's glass, adena that is used to purchase AA remains in the L2 economic system. Therefore it is not a cause of deflation. Nevit glass directly remove adena from the system, yet AA money is simply transfered from one player to another.
Soul ore, spirit ore, healing pots, and everything you buy from NPC also drains adena from the L2 economic system, and that used to be the main tool for NC to manage the L2 economy. Why do you think there is something called "soul shots" in the game? Have you even heard such a concept before you played L2? Wake up! It is merely a tool for NC to balance the L2 economy and slow down the speed of adena creation process (nothing wrong with it, it is the proper thing to do).
However, the economy lost it balance since the Nevit glass was introduced (especailly after the high 5 update. Reduced exp requirement made Nevit glass much more valuable). The speed of adena destruction became so much faster than creation, hence the chaos. Fridgit is correct, skill oe also removes adena from the system. The only diff is that skill oe is an one time event, yet Nevit drains large amounts of adena every single day from most players.
I played a few other mmorpg in the past, and most of them have inflation problems: currencies were not drained fast enough from the system, and prices constantly moved up. It is quite obviously that nc has studied that problem, and determined to prevent it from happening. However, NC team has become over-zealous and lost touch with what is going on in the game, at least temporarily.
L2 always had a big issue where the game's economic system is completely player influenced. Its a good and bad thing, the good thing is that compared to other mmos the economy is very dynamic, the bad thing being that outside of selling to players you can't make any money.
I think the solution is to "slowly" add trash drops you can vendor to npcs. But then this may cause other issues too and could make adena become worthless. There needs to be more practical ways for the average player to earn adena. Because the income isn't close to how much one needs to spend to buy stuff.
I see most of you (except Mcbuff and Fidgit) completely missed my point. I was not complaining Nevit glass at 5.2m was expensive. I have 4 dorfs sitting in town trading 24/7, so I have plenty of adena to afford it.
So you have no problems. Stupid people who buy Nevits even though they can't afford it have, but that's their problem, not yours.
saber what do u care? are u rich? will u continue to be rich? then u have no problem... stop caring about the general economy... u wanna start caring start donating to the econmy instead of taking from it lol.
L2 is never about sustainabilty.. others wise they wouldnt change the rules every 6months to a year... they just care about till the next update...then the economy will change again....
Mcbuff, I disagree with your view that AA drains adena from the system. Yes, AA and S gems are expensive, however unlike Nevit's glass, adena that is used to purchase AA remains in the L2 economic system. Therefore it is not a cause of deflation. Nevit glass directly remove adena from the system, yet AA money is simply transfered from one player to another.
I agree that Seal Stones -> AA (from mob drops) have no effect on the adena economy, except being used to trade between players or for own use; unless people trade via Mammon @ 1:1 :rolleyes: lol. Nevertheless, you have to look at people exchanging adena -> AA (like I have discussed about it in another thread about AA exchange time). Even you reverse it back from AA to adena it is 1:1, not 1:4.
Most people are having problems with SA'ing S80/84 weapons before the AA exchange via npc. Think about: Adena -> AA -> S gems -> weapon SA or Adena -> AA -> Priest of Dawn consumables, the AA/S gems will eventually leave the system. Therefore, once the adena is used to purchase AA, the adena is gone. Like I said earlier, reversing it back to adena is only @ 1:1.
As players cheered the arrival of high 5, many of us soon found out that hitting lvl 80 means that we have to pay Nevit 5.2m adena for his hour glasses. It become almost unavoidable because exp required to lvl up has been halved, therefore, Nevit's glasses is absolutely critical since it raises exp earned by 50%.
What?
"The amount of xp you need to lvl up has been reduced (i.e. you lvl much faster than before), so it is absolutely critical that you use the Nevit's pots, because they increase the xp you get"
I can't really follow you there - why do you NEED to use the Nevit's pots when you lvl much faster anyway even without them? If anything, you need them LESS than before.
Mcbuff, I disagree with your view that AA drains adena from the system. Yes, AA and S gems are expensive, however unlike Nevit's glass, adena that is used to purchase AA remains in the L2 economic system. Therefore it is not a cause of deflation. Nevit glass directly remove adena from the system, yet AA money is simply transfered from one player to another. - wrong. Atm AA drains adena from L2.
Who need Dynasty sets, A cry etc? Even Moirai?
Try to sell Vorpal set, or smt useful, and you will have big eyes, how many ppl have alot adena ;)
btw, ty NCSoft team for baning some bots (workers one). But some their owners we still hear in blue chat. And all those anoying pvp programs ... No problems with economic imo, problem in pvp system. H5 bring new greater skills for some weak classes, but what new in pvp? Nothing. Cheaters still can see through walls, floors, can target legit player before they even see danger. I don't even say about other cheats in pvp they use.
"The amount of xp you need to lvl up has been reduced (i.e. you lvl much faster than before), so it is absolutely critical that you use the Nevit's pots, because they increase the xp you get"
I can't really follow you there - why do you NEED to use the Nevit's pots when you lvl much faster anyway even without them? If anything, you need them LESS than before.
I was just about to post that. OP makes no sense.
"The amount of xp you need to lvl up has been reduced (i.e. you lvl much faster than before), so it is absolutely critical that you use the Nevit's pots, because they increase the xp you get"
I can't really follow you there - why do you NEED to use the Nevit's pots when you lvl much faster anyway even without them? If anything, you need them LESS than before.
ok, let's do a numerical example: let's say 1 hr of grinding gives you 10 exp, with nevit, you get 15. Pre-high-5, you need to earn 100 exp to lvl, now all you need is 50 exp to lvl.
Here is the math:
pre-high-5, without nevit, you need 10 hours to lvl up, with nevit, 6.6 hours.
Now, without nevit 5 hours, with nevit 3.3 hours.
Remember, grinding hours become more valuable in high 5 because you lvl up twice as fast. Every hour you save now is like 2 hour pre-high-5
If you still disagree. Think it as high5= perma double exp weekend. Do you tend to use nevit more or less in double exp weekends??
I agree that Seal Stones -> AA (from mob drops) have no effect on the adena economy, except being used to trade between players or for own use; unless people trade via Mammon @ 1:1 :rolleyes: lol. Nevertheless, you have to look at people exchanging adena -> AA (like I have discussed about it in another thread about AA exchange time). Even you reverse it back from AA to adena it is 1:1, not 1:4.
Most people are having problems with SA'ing S80/84 weapons before the AA exchange via npc. Think about: Adena -> AA -> S gems -> weapon SA or Adena -> AA -> Priest of Dawn consumables, the AA/S gems will eventually leave the system. Therefore, once the adena is used to purchase AA, the adena is gone. Like I said earlier, reversing it back to adena is only @ 1:1.
You are absolutely correct. What I said about AA was dead wrong. AA exchange with mammon blackmarkeer drains tremendous amount of adena from the system, even worse than Nevit! Everyday, I hand blackmarketeer 10m adena for 2.5m aa, that is 10m adena leaving the L2 system!!!! Many people probably pays blackmarketeer even more!!!
So cutting Nevit price alone will not be able save the economy. Black marketeer must stop exchaning AA. Adena/AA drop rate must be increased significantly, and GEM required for SA must be reduced significantly, so L2 economy can become self-sustaiing again. Cata mob exp probably also needs to be increased to encourage hunting.
If you still disagree. Think it as high5= perma double exp weekend. Do you tend to use nevit more or less in double exp weekends??
During a double xp weekend, yes, because it is a VERY limited amount of time during which you get the bonus. So you want to make the most out of it.
But as it is right now, you level fast enough even without Nevit's pots, especially since the Nevit's bonus does not start as soon as you log in (i.e. you always get the full effect of the one free hour, while before this update, that time was sometimes nearly gone by the time your party finally started killing mobs). Plus all the new stuff, like Nevit's advent, the party vitality herbs, the 1 million vitality cookies/christmas cakes/candles etc., we have SO MUCH free vitality now, it is ridiculous. Seriously, the Nevit's pots are pretty much overkill these days. I do not buy them anymore at all.
I guess my point was simply "you level now as fast for free as you did before with the Nevit's pots, why would it be CRITICAL to now buy the pots to level even faster?"
Yes, if they put in another double xp weekend, I'd probably use the pots to lvl up an alt or whatever, but the standard (without pots) xp rate right now is fast enough for me - I'd rather spend my adena on something else.
During a double xp weekend, yes, because it is a VERY limited amount of time during which you get the bonus. So you want to make the most out of it.
But as it is right now, you level fast enough even without Nevit's pots, especially since the Nevit's bonus does not start as soon as you log in (i.e. you always get the full effect of the one free hour, while before this update, that time was sometimes nearly gone by the time your party finally started killing mobs). Plus all the new stuff, like Nevit's advent, the party vitality herbs, the 1 million vitality cookies/christmas cakes/candles etc., we have SO MUCH free vitality now, it is ridiculous. Seriously, the Nevit's pots are pretty much overkill these days. I do not buy them anymore at all.
I guess my point was simply "you level now as fast for free as you did before with the Nevit's pots, why would it be CRITICAL to now buy the pots to level even faster?"
Yes, if they put in another double xp weekend, I'd probably use the pots to lvl up an alt or whatever, but the standard (without pots) xp rate right now is fast enough for me - I'd rather spend my adena on something else.
Thanks. Mostly agreed. That is why I post, to see people's thoughts, so I can find out what I have missed.
As I have learned, Nevit is not the sole culprit causing Giran's illiquidity glut. Black marketeer's aa change must be stopped.
Saber, seriously: Money (adena, dollars, euro, whatever) doesn't have a worth by itself. If adena would be ten times easier to get by, all that would happen is that adena was worth a tenth of what it is worth now. The worth of equipment wouldn't change, it would just have an additional zero at the end.
What you want is not to get people more adena. What you ask for is to make NPC services - specifically, Nevit's Hourglasses - cheaper, worth less. But, why?
The problem is not Nevit Blessing but the fact that some people think everything L2 is about is to hit 85 asap and having the best gears. Lol, I have been using my Arcana Robe set on my toon since 2009, when Dynasty wasn't even available, and I'm still using it now that my toon is 8x. Once in a while in the past I bought nevit blessing, but now I only buy it when I'm lvling my 4x sub. I welcome NCsoft's idea of making nevit blessing buyable, but I don't see why I have to buy it. "For maximum xp gained?", lol, I like getting max xp, but don't mind much if I don't. The game's objective is to entertain ppl, and as long as I can enjoy it, I'll keep playing. Just some ppl can't enjoy L2 if they don't get best xp/hour, best gears, max profit from trade, etc that see Nevit Blessing is a problem. I don't.
I get 1h nevit's a day that is good enough, and nevit's advent blessing now and then. :)
It's not like you have to buy the potion you get enough bonus with out.
reduction of the adena inflation causes prices to drop.
when something goes from 200 mill to 100 mill just because the sellers know about the limitation of adena supply (therefor they will not be able to sell the thing for 200 mill) the average player who never relied on e-bay or botting will be nothing but happy
reduction of the adena inflation causes prices to drop.
when something goes from 200 mill to 100 mill just because the sellers know about the limitation of adena supply (therefor they will not be able to sell the thing for 200 mill) the average player who never relied on e-bay or botting will be nothing but happy
I don't see prices going down as a bad thing. Please explain it to me why it's bad?!
Because Saber has four dwarfs in Giran constantly selling 24/7.
For regular users, it's a good thing.
He's probably selling itmes that he got prior to the updates.
Market price just changes depends on the demands and availability. More demands and less availability, the price will go up, other wise, will go down. It's just natural as same as in the real world. With updates, some are available more than before and ofcouse affects the market price. Whoever have invasted on some items prior to the update to sell are basically being screwed with the NEW ECONOMIC. It's just a logic.
Nevit doesn't affect the economy. You don't have to buy it! It's just something additional, a luxury item if you can afford it, but is just fine without it.
We went through same thing. With change you loose some and win some. That's just it. Nothing to freak out about the economic. After all, L2 economic heavily depends on the real users. It changes as like I have said earlier, depends on the demands.
So, from what I understand: Saber wants to remove money sinks from the game?
The amount of adena removed from L2 economy must equeal to amount of adena created in order to achieve a sustainable balanace. So, either reduce adena sink, or drop more adena
The amount of adena removed from L2 economy must equeal to amount of adena created in order to achieve a sustainable balanace. So, either reduce adena sink, or drop more adena
Don't worry.
I'll give you an example why you shouldn't worry.
People who'd usually play for an hour will now play four hours if they get 3hr nevit blessing thus get more adens than they would've normally.
Although the nevit doesn't enforce the drop rate, makes the player play longer.. if you know what I mean..;)
Cherishy it while you have it. It will only be available for just couple of months. Soon it will be gone as it did with us.
Good to know it's only for a couple of months. If not, eventually all of us will have to go back to farming everything ourselves (including adena lol), rather than using the market (trading adena <-> goods between players) to get supplies/gears; since there will be less and less adena in the system everyday.
Because Saber has four dwarfs in Giran constantly selling 24/7.
For regular users, it's a good thing.
He's probably selling itmes that he got prior to the updates.
Market price just changes depends on the demands and availability. More demands and less availability, the price will go up, other wise, will go down. It's just natural as same as in the real world. With updates, some are available more than before and ofcouse affects the market price. Whoever have invasted on some items prior to the update to sell are basically being screwed with the NEW ECONOMIC. It's just a logic.
Nevit doesn't affect the economy. You don't have to buy it! It's just something additional, a luxury item if you can afford it, but is just fine without it.
We went through same thing. With change you loose some and win some. That's just it. Nothing to freak out about the economic. After all, L2 economic heavily depends on the real users. It changes as like I have said earlier, depends on the demands.
I think there is something I should have clarified. I do not care about the absolute price level, I care about the trading volumn! Lower selling price is absolutely no problem to me because I can always pay people less when I buy. What happened in the past 3 weeks is that trading volumn has dried up, no one is buying or selling any more. oh, also common sense, all my dorfs are afk shops, I only log on to grind/set shops less than 2 hrs per day.
I see S weapons at 30m, yet no one wants it; I see Vespers at 100, still no one wants it; I see 86 wolf at 400, still no one wants it. I see Baium at 1.2, frint/freya at 250 each. I know I would like to buy them if I have enough liquidity. Instead of buying, people email me all kinds of barter offers for my items, so I know there is demand, just no currency! All my dorfs are selling, and none is buying. Because the only item valuable in giran right now is adena, and nothing else.
Of course in every update demand changes. You do not have to tell me. I know Giran's paulse much better than you do. Why do you think people come to this forum? It is all about gaining an edge ahead of other people.
Anyway, you can always see my trading inventory in the Chrono Market forum. I update once a week. I never trade junks that no one wants.
Also, as Mcbuff pointed out, getting rid of Nevit will not be able to fix the problem completely. Black Marketeer AA exchange must be stopped. Instead, triple the exp/aa (not item) drop rate in catacombs.
i c where ur going on this saber... but really the issue is the real player.
we dont have the population to susatain that kind of system. Ppl keep annd hoard gear now. Liquididty(cept for lowbies like myself) is not the way of things. We dont need billions ne more. we stockpile gear, our lowbies can get npc gear, we only need a few dynasty sets, a few moria sets, and not many ppl are 84+ as to seeing the prices of vesper so cheap.
methinks the real issue is they banned bots an replaced em with npc's. A grade now? no craft or buy, just cheap npc. Dynasty? 1 hlr, 1 hvy, 1 light (if needed) then switch top out thru npc.
its a handme down/npc world now lol
adena isnt made ne more. Just npc bought stuff. but thats the way of the updates. Hence i only buy and sell consumables lol.......
and when prices go down(like gc's for instance) i just rely on volume lol.
adena isnt made ne more. Just npc bought stuff. but thats the way of the updates. Hence i only buy and sell consumables lol.......
and when prices go down(like gc's for instance) i just rely on volume lol.
Im trying to get 28 nobles :)
ok, now, let's not trade secrets with the mobs ;)
also, you brought up a very interesting point. How the heck on earth is buying my gc?? To me they are completely worthless. Saber won 3 out of 9 matches in last oly, yet she got a like a gazillion gc. I oed all her skills to 8 or 9 (she is an 80 EE, so dot really need oe skills through roof), and still have a pile of leftover books. I mean if you want to go 18+, you probably need mastery instead of GC anyway (due to sp limits).
Of course in every update demand changes. You do not have to tell me. I know Giran's paulse much better than you do. Why do you think people come to this forum? It is all about gaining an edge ahead of other people.
Here comes another I am better than you kind of reply again when I am only sharing what I know. You NEVER see on any of my post that I say I am better than you guys. If I say something you already know, good for you. But because you know already doens't mean others who's reading also knows about it too. I am only sharing what I know.
I too have couple of dorfs as I have mentioned on other thread/post for buy and sell. The gears I have is not top but I am in top 20% I'd say. And I have never used ebay like sites. I got all my stuff within the games.
I have 21 characters on my 3 accounts 11 of them over 76, 5 over 80. rest for queen ant and night jaken. All have property geard. I play all different kinds of toons for fun for different situations.
I made adens from buy and sell, a prophit of 15kkk adens were made during seven month of gaming time just from selling and buying when I started the game several years ago. When I started the game when I didn't know anything, my friend aid me with 70kk adens for me to buy gears. Instead, I picked up the market pretty quick and I started to buy and sell.
I can't say I am better than you since I still don't know how you do it. But I do have pretty good idea of how the market works.
I can't just belive some of you keep on saying that you are better than me when I never make such a statment. How do you know when you don't know what I do?? I keep on ask.. Some of you guys have too much ego and just are too blinded to see the real point I try to make.. Put your ego asid for a while. It's not about who's better. It never was.
dont be to harsh on him man lol the only thing in his defense id say is u play on servers of 4-6k ppl where we play on serever of 1-2 k at the best fo times lol BIG difference lol
@ saber ... trust me sell em cheap in volume and ppl will flock lol
oh yah andtheres ur npc again... sp scrolls ftw lol
I understand his concern, he's not worrying about selling his stuff. He's worrying about adens being dried out for being spend on all this additional features like nevit and not enough are being made back to replace what was spend. (Adens spend on the NPC are basically being disapearred from the server, and that's his concern.) He thinks because adens are dried out, there's no trade. and thus the markets are crushing.
Which I am trying to tell him that it will also balance out. It's all going to be ok is what I am trying to say, but he's just too hung up on his point of view to listen to what others are saying now.
Don't give this bullshi* about I am better than you statment anymore.. Getting tired of it.
Welcome to the forums. Please find your complimentary pair of flame-******ant underwear in the glass box to the right. It would be in your best interest to remember that over here, people generally want to be the best, and that means not helping others and being as paranoid as possible*.
* The noted general statement does not apply to everyone. There are quite a few helpful people, but they tend to have lower profiles.
Here comes another I am better than you kind of reply again when I am only sharing what I know. You NEVER see on any of my post that I say I am better than you guys. If I say something you already know, good for you. But because you know already doens't mean others who's reading also knows about it too. I am only sharing what I know.
Don't give this bullshi* about I am better than you statment anymore.. Getting tired of it.
I too have couple of dorfs as I have mentioned on other thread/post for buy and sell. The gears I have is not top but I am in top 20% I'd say. And I have never used ebay like sites. I got all my stuff within the games.
I have 21 characters on my 3 accounts 11 of them over 76, 5 over 80. rest for queen ant and night jaken. All have property geard. I play all different kinds of toons for fun for different situations.
I made adens from buy and sell, a prophit of 15kkk adens were made during seven month of gaming time just from selling and buying when I started the game several years ago. When I started the game when I didn't know anything, my friend aid me with 70kk adens for me to buy gears. Instead, I picked up the market pretty quick and I started to buy and sell.
I can't say I am better than you since I still don't know how you do it. But I do have pretty good idea of how the market works.
I can't just belive some of you keep on saying that you are better than me when I never make such a statment. How do you know when you don't know what I do?? I keep on ask.. Some of you guys have too much ego and just are too blinded to see the real point I try to make.. Put your ego asid for a while. It's not about who's better. It never was.
lol. welcome aboard my friend. I am one of the nicer guys on the board.
If you take everything people say on this board seriously, you gonna go postal in 2 weeks.
Yeah, Stupidity, that is why I said "stop sharing" trade secrets. Because large volumn GC transactions (with low prices) is one of the last profitable trades left in Giran. Of course, now everyone reads this thread knows.
I think there is something I should have clarified. I do not care about the absolute price level, I care about the trading volumn! Lower selling price is absolutely no problem to me because I can always pay people less when I buy. What happened in the past 3 weeks is that trading volumn has dried up, no one is buying or selling any more. oh, also common sense, all my dorfs are afk shops, I only log on to grind/set shops less than 2 hrs per day.
I see S weapons at 30m, yet no one wants it; I see Vespers at 100, still no one wants it; I see 86 wolf at 400, still no one wants it. I see Baium at 1.2, frint/freya at 250 each.
Is it a secret that people used to buy from market using ebay?even making small ebays from time to time it was the solution for most of players to have money in their pockets for shots and stuff and upgrade their gear.
Is it a secret that now ebayers get 100%banned?while botters get 7days ban and users of auto pvp programs that use them also inside oly to get hero dont get banned at all.......
So,thats why you see market dead,because people are afraid to ebay.The ones that did the huge ebays in the past or had bottrains and stopped botting in their main account in time,
they still have stocked bilions in their wh,they got epics/made top gear/oed skills +30/took hero and been in a top clan that raid will still give them the new items of game without need to ebay anymore,like elegia sets.They are not going to buy teza and baium and vesper,they bought those years ago.It's the middle L2 player who cant afford buy anything,since he cant make money from anything,there are not even buying shops with good prices for vesper parts for someone to spoil for money, exept if he sells the things he needs into buying shops like ke/mastery and attribute stones,but this means he will be left poorely geared.
Since Destructor admited in Korean servers people ebay too(and i assume they dont get 100% banned),its very easy to understand how their economy is rich,remember
how market was in all servers 3 years ago,items were sold from shops easy,players were doing pms asking the shop to hold this item for 30'-1h because they are expecting money),the new question is,what Nswest is going to do to replace the adena in game we miss from all the toons that got banned(and cant be our customers anymore)and from the lack of a source that gives extra adena to players,like 2X rate in game to increase adena/items drop, coin system to help you pay with your real money in Nscoft to lvl faster.
And ofc,we never created
the system Destructor described to us for public cc for raids and public auction for items (system which i admit i cant understand how it does not conflict with maximum numbers of instance zones reached and the facts a day has 12 hours and koreans must sleep and work too).
There is nothing wrong with the game at the moment, the amount of adena going out of the game doesn't matter at all because it's all voluntary, it will stop when people can no longer afford to throw away 15m/day or whatever they do now.
However, even if the game is fine, the players in the game are pretty dumb and ignorant when it comes to economy. Almost anyone trying to sell now are pricing their **** at the old values, but it will never sell at that price.
prices will go down eventually when the players figure out that it wont sell otherwise.
And the A -> AA exchange will become unprofitable if enough adena is removed so it will stop itself.
Nevitts is a choice you make, there is no need for it at all, anyone who says otherwise are wrong.
A big change is the adena <--> real money transactions.
A LOT of people used to fund their characters by buying a billion adena every other month or whatever amount they "need", this is no longer viable because the suppliers don't have any stock because their bot trains are banned, and people are actually afraid of getting banned if they buy adena, something you never saw a year ago.
I think it's great that NCSoft got rid of the majority of the bots, but I'm a bit dissapointed that the bot masters still run around freely.
1. Very few ppl play the way i do or have the set up i have.... no any one with 13 bd's? lololol
2. because of my setup, i can run 22 chars thru tw myself each tw
28 chars 61+ ftw
3. know many ppl with 10+ oly toons? only one i know is smittie with 22 lol
so although i may "share" my secrets, no one wants to play the way i do (all -79, only play cats) so therefore they will never reach the volume i can lolol
also as i said earlier, its like cocaine... theres always more buyers :)
As it was mentioned before - market is not collapsing it's in adjustment period.
I never worry bout "trade secrets"
1. Very few ppl play the way i do or have the set up i have.... no any one with 13 bd's? lololol
2. because of my setup, i can run 22 chars thru tw myself each tw
28 chars 61+ ftw
3. know many ppl with 10+ oly toons? only one i know is smittie with 22 lol
so although i may "share" my secrets, no one wants to play the way i do (all -79, only play cats) so therefore they will never reach the volume i can lolol
also as i said earlier, its like cocaine... theres always more buyers :)
Can you stop it please? I've nothing against you but whenever I see your post it's about same thing how you do not level your chars past 78. You post same in every thread no matter the topic. You always find a way to post that you never level past 78. This become pretty annoying to be honest.
1. its a free country... u dont like my posts? dont read em.
2. u can always block my posts so u cant even see em.
3. im coulourblind and wont lvl past 78.... hahahahahahahahah
aint i a stinker?
edit: i love being anoying.. since this is a game where ppl really are anonymous... doesnt afect rl... i look at it as board pking....... i cant be like this in rl so why not where i dont give a rats a grade soul shots what ppl think of me? :)
What is happening to the game at the moment looks initially painfully irritating but it's actually a welcome change in the long-run...
Product in L2 has always been waaaaay over-priced. This is usually the fault of luxury items like boss jewels, over-enchanted gear, even hats. To get into the kind of adena brackets, prices were high to make reaching the required adena levels realistic.
How else are you gonna' fund your Antharas for example? You could join a PVP clan and wait till you get yours but it's unreliable, takes forever and most people simply don't have that option.
Anyway the real deal is there's actually an adena source that is usually over-looked but is completely reliable and otherwise unlimited... NPC shops... If you actually look at the costs of some of the items (key mats, recs, basic mats) there is a constant revenue stream there.
Things that are pretty useless now like icarus recs and some vesper recipes (which there are realistically easy ways of obtaining) sell for millions to the npc shop. The way things are going, crafting armour is almost a waste of time now, so Dynasty recs and even mats like orichalcum/leonards etc. are worth sellng to the npc shop (Ori is like 19k or so per piece! down from like 500k+ it used to be lol) if you can't find a buy shop.
Nc Soft just needs to kill the market a bit more so that baselines are more inline with NPC shop prices for a large amount of the product players can naturally acquire while hunting mobs and doing kill-quests.
The only people who should still be crafting are those wanting to create luxury items. Their buyers however will be limited to those who were already rich but even they will start to feel the money slipping away eventually.
People running around with +6 gear and +7 or more weapons should never have been a standard in the first place. I have/had far too many +++ weapons and it's just stupid.
also, you brought up a very interesting point. How the heck on earth is buying my gc?? To me they are completely worthless. Saber won 3 out of 9 matches in last oly, yet she got a like a gazillion gc. I oed all her skills to 8 or 9 (she is an 80 EE, so dot really need oe skills through roof), and still have a pile of leftover books. I mean if you want to go 18+, you probably need mastery instead of GC anyway (due to sp limits).
I read all your post and I have been noticing the "lack" of "revolving" adena. Although I think that the source of the problem is different.
Now the main problem, I think, Its not the NEVIT potions. I think its more related to what I just quoted you here. With the High Five Update, xp has been easier than ever and the GCs are so cheap is not even funny. A lot of people are spending millions in OE'ing skills, a lot more than what they spend on nevit (limited at 1 per day). I think that the new fast xp combined with the cheap GC books are causing this "dryness" of adena. The nevit potions where here BEFORE the update and this didnt happen. The source of the problem I think resides in the OE'ing skills.....
Potential solutions??
#1 - Like you said, have mobs drop more adena
#2 - Reduce the "adena" cost for OE'ing skills
#3- Limit the amount of OE'ing per day (this one would really suck).
Hopefully once people get to the desired OE level this might stop and the economy should balance itself out..... but i'm not so sure about that.....
#1 - Like you said, have mobs drop more adena
#2 - Reduce the "adena" cost for OE'ing skills
#3- Limit the amount of OE'ing per day (this one would really suck).
I dont see why the drain adena is a problem that should be solved...
Less adena in market = cheaper things = more legit starters happy
thats how i see things...
maybe this way farming adena by killing mobs may become a profitable activitie in the future...
#1 - Like you said, have mobs drop more adena
#2 - Reduce the "adena" cost for OE'ing skills
#3- Limit the amount of OE'ing per day (this one would really suck).
1-3 complete nonsense.
1 - inflation
2,3 - who said you must oe your skills? Its an option. Don't have SP for oe? Go grind. Don't have money for oe? Go grind.
2 years ago atr stones cost ~60mil. Not many ppl have even +50 atr in their weap. Its was an option.
Nevits, skill oe - nothing compared to the AA for adena. Many ppl buying a lot AA every day. But again, its only an option. Its IMMEDIATELY stops, when just something will change. For example, when deflation/revolvation or whatever you think around us, go to some lvl, ppl stop buy nevits, even those, who like them, and want to buy, because will be too expensive. Same for AA and other things. Market allways in ballance, with inflation, deflation etc, because not dumb ppl there. If you can't sell smth, or buy, its not a problem with market, its problem with you.
Tired with this topic :)
Less adena in market = cheaper things = more legit starters happy
Goods not become cheaper, when less adena on the market.
I'm not sure if you noticed but the economy is going through HUGE deflation. Vesper wepons used to cost 1b +
icarus wepons 500kk +
vesper armors etc.....
Element stones / Element critals ......
We are going through a huge deflation for many different reasons.... unless you wait until the economy stabilizes, the only way to stop deflation is with a regulated inflation........ Economics 101.....
the price of things is affected with the supply and demand of those things and not by the value of adena........
Ofc the price is also afected by the value of adena...
Less adena in market = lower prices...
Imagine if now on everybody started to earn 100.000 dollars/month
Do u still think that price of stuff would keep the same?
ofc not... by the time that the dollar suply of market increases, the prices increase as well...
thats inflaction.... same happens to deflaction, but in a diferent way.
less money in market = prices going down...
As the way to earn adena in L2 doesnt change, deflaction is good for us...
Mobs will still drop the same amount of adena.
The adena will be drained by the games mechanisms, but if u want to save adena to buy something u would save a lot less to achieve your goal.
The price of nevit's is static. Although, it may feel like you are spending more because it took you longer for you to earn the money to get it. I would rather just make a good party and forget about nevits. I have 450+ Christmas boxes that I lovingly got to open for free, anyway. Woot!
I still have a ton of those left have been 85 for a very long time... You should be able to gift a target with a cake or something. Like that Japanese 'Ice cream feeding' game. It was always white vanilla and it got smeared a lot. Yeah...:/
Ofc the price is also afected by the value of adena...
Less adena in market = lower prices...
Imagine if now on everybody started to earn 100.000 dollars/month
Do u still think that price of stuff would keep the same?
ofc not... by the time that the dollar suply of market increases, the prices increase as well...
thats inflaction.... same happens to deflaction, but in a diferent way.
less money in market = prices going down...
As the way to earn adena in L2 doesnt change, deflaction is good for us...
Mobs will still drop the same amount of adena.
The adena will be drained by the games mechanisms, but if u want to save adena to buy something u would save a lot less to achieve your goal.
I have feeling NCSoft purposely drains out adens from the server to prevent too much inflation and keep it leveled.
I've seen it too many times with many event.
I don't think its causing a "crise" in giran's economy, but i do agree that this price is very high, not only level 80+ nevits but also the 61-75.
In level 65-75 is very hard to collect 970,000 adena everyday when we have a lot of supplies to afford and EQs as well.
I have feeling NCSoft purposely drains out adens from the server to prevent too much inflation and keep it leveled.
I've seen it too many times with many event.
I have feeling NCSoft purposely drains out adens from the server to prevent too much inflation and keep it leveled.
I've seen it too many times with many event.
I'm not sure if you noticed but the economy is going through HUGE deflation. Vesper wepons used to cost 1b +
icarus wepons 500kk +
vesper armors etc.....
Element stones / Element critals ......
We are going through a huge deflation for many different reasons.... unless you wait until the economy stabilizes, the only way to stop deflation is with a regulated inflation........ Economics 101.....
Maybe we had a "wrong" economy before? Maybe most adena in CWHs,WHs and inv's its just a bot product? About droping in price all those icarus, vesper, stones etc. - nothing to do with deflation.
problem with icarus/vesper weapons, etc, no one can afford to put the SA on it when its clean... because there is no way to get AA through normal playing when you are a high lvl since all catas are blue, so you need to buy/sell whatever to get your AA/SGEM
problem with icarus/vesper weapons, etc, no one can afford to put the SA on it when its clean... because there is no way to get AA through normal playing when you are a high lvl since all catas are blue, so you need to buy/sell whatever to get your AA/SGEM
this is also weighing on prices
AA is essentially a quest item and still drops even if the mobs are dark blue, you just don't any normal drops from them. Basically nobody 'wants' to farm AA, that's why it's not done.
I don't mind spending the 5 million adena once or twice a week, but when I only get the 1 hour hour glass I cry.
:) same here. Need to kill more Antharas/Valakas to get 100% 3hr nevits buff ;)
problem with icarus/vesper weapons, etc, no one can afford to put the SA on it when its clean... because there is no way to get AA through normal playing when you are a high lvl since all catas are blue, so you need to buy/sell whatever to get your AA/SGEM this is also weighing on prices
I'll never believe you, if you said you don't have some 60+ and some 76+ chars on your main account ;) So, you don't need to grind AA with your main.
AA is essentially a quest item and still drops even if the mobs are dark blue, you just don't any normal drops from them. Basically nobody 'wants' to farm AA, that's why it's not done.
Many ppl farm AA atm, but ofc they don't farm seal stones 24/7 as was before.
there s no problem in fact things are getting better each day ppl that complain should ask how could anyone afor to buy a cleab db in 2008 when price was 1b on server luna and then talk non sense
I have feeling NCSoft purposely drains out adens from the server to prevent too much inflation and keep it leveled.
I've seen it too many times with many event.
That is exactly it... My main concern here is that they might be taking adena out based on the korean model..... which has a lot more people (more people = more mobs killed / second = more adena generation). And that is where the problem might be......
I still think that the economy will balance itself in a couple of months, but for the time being its going to suck for a bit......