I was just wondering if it doesn't strike you at NCSoft as odd that an unbuffed kamael lv 62 (forgot to add lv) can disarm a lv 84 with no trouble at all?
Stop stealing his weapon he might still looking for it!:p
P.S. Seriously?
NC wanted ppl play Kamel.
And they did it.
They overpowered them for that reason.
To wanted give some fun to ppl who just started to 'feel' even high lvl PvP.
As you remember at beginning all were laughing about Kamels.
Now they gradually gimp that race ..
Best is no more ping-og :)
Recently not Kamels are biggest pain.
I hate more all classes rushing to me :D
the kamael is the perfect example of what happens when a game company decides to add an entire race/class system to a game that wasn't balanced around it.
what else do u want?
btw, as far as i know, there are no buffs/talismans that resist the disarm skill.
Disarm wouldn't be so bad if it didn't completely nerf most classes.
If there was an autoreequip, or partialmaintaining of ability while disarmed, it would juat be a reduction rather than a nerf.
But... alas they have had years to change disarm, and have since added it to other classes.
Ok people if u don't like the class deal with it. Or better yet play one. Get to know it. So u can learn there weaknesses. A doombringer has a certain range between rush impact and disarm can't be used. If ur 2 close rush impact won't work. If ur to far disarm won't work. Yes its hard but so is fighting an EE in oly. I've beatin plenty of doombringers in oly that r higher lvl then me if not the same lvl. I've also lost a lot. And if u don't want to get rushed off the bat. Use ur surroundings.....o and I'm an 80+ sws in moirai so don't think its cause I'm an OP DD
no point to screaming for NcSoft reaction.I did crying about unused SWS skills,long time and make posts,threads on forum,petitions in game etc and nothing happen except i think Im an idiot becouse i did start discusion with NcSoft Cesars.....so big QQ for everyone whos trying to start discusion,and nobody from the top will listening you.
the kamael is the perfect example of what happens when a game company decides to add an entire race/class system to a game that wasn't balanced around it.
what else do u want?
btw, as far as i know, there are no buffs/talismans that resist the disarm skill.
white talisman of protection increase resistance to disarm debuf
Anything that resists debuffs resists Disarm. So if you have Cov/Arcane Protection/Zealot etc. you have more of a chance. Aside from that the only natural defence is higher strength. This was proved and illustrated by the Koreans.
Disarm wouldn't be so bad if it didn't completely nerf most classes.
If there was an autoreequip, or partialmaintaining of ability while disarmed, it would juat be a reduction rather than a nerf.
But... alas they have had years to change disarm, and have since added it to other classes.
I think that the worst thing on disarm is the ++ time.....
I played against a very oed kamael and I spent the whole fight without a weapon....... he landed it twice straight (that could have been luck so im not qqing about that) but with the duration enchantment I spent the whole fight disarmed.....
This reminds me of things like ceritain mobs in the game that can steal your mp.
Doesnt matter if you are level 40 or level 82+, they still drain your mp with 100% chance.
Makes so much sense that a mob of level 40-60 can drain a level 82+ char every single time they try :p
I think that the worst thing on disarm is the ++ time.....
I played against a very oed kamael and I spent the whole fight without a weapon....... he landed it twice straight (that could have been luck so im not qqing about that) but with the duration enchantment I spent the whole fight disarmed.....
in oly it is almost impossible to resist, unless u have the buffs lordriot mentioned above. that is why it lands all the time.
2- Koreans did tests and determined that disarm land rate is affected by the target's Str.
High Str = High Disarm Resist.
Low Str = Get ready to suffer mages QQ
There is no 'high' resistance to disarm. It is not a mental attack. You get better resistance with more str but it's barely significant. We're talking in the region of 20% difference.
Kamaels skills was ultimate sign developers wanted to change this game into a new game by
not evolving classes skills,or even by nerfing skills to add the working ones to the new race
(perfect example soulhound that took necro's ancor (instead of giving necro mass ancor as
80+skill),dark weapon(leaving necro without a buff to increase his dmg).
Developers plan is only explaned as how to make previous races/classes look worthless and
erase from players memory years of playing and classes roles, nukers suffered the most
from -low
strenght/disarm,mass para(not even need to steal buffs lol),and m.def kind of ud pranah.
All kamael classes are nothing comparing to other classes before 80+ and everyone i know
that play kamael told me raising their subs is boring to die,as for inquistor buffs they should
be given into other buff classes (as they do in god)cause nooone who made the boring job of
raising a kamael with 3 subs would ever play as a sub buffer in pvp ,so what kamaels are?=a
patch in game that pops after 80+ to make other classes loose their role in terms of skills and
in graphics/skills animations.
Oly is the ultimate show of this,God is the ultimate proof of this and im soooo sick and tired of
loosing this beautiful game we had because Nscoft cant understand we dont want to play
some new developers ideas that basically create a new game,
either find the original developers to continue their work,either find
developers they want and are able to develop the original game.
This is mostly bs. Playing a Kamael is boring before 80 because people told you? This coming from a player of a class that presses 4 buttons (one of which is actually a toggle).
You're just crying that you rolled a Necro so you could be over-powered like all the other op Necros. Then NC Soft nerfed you into the ground so you were as good as other nukers and you've never been same since.
You complained before Kamaels, you complained after Kamaels, you complained after Kamaels (Soul hound/Trickster) got nerfed. All you have ever done in this game is complain...
Ask yourself what that actually means... I'd tell you but I'd rather not be rude and you pretty much know yourself, you're just comforted by having an excuse.
As to Disarm: It's only problem is that it simply lasts too long when highly enchanted. The game is so badly balanced that you'd have to do too many things to make such a nerf viable. Which is probably why they never bothered in the first place.
still classes like glads, titans, dwarfs should have some kind of self buff that protect them or at least shortens the time of disarm, afterall they are the weapon masters.
Disarm was not really a problem for me before shield strike, now that i have both bash/strike, well...
Im the real problem with all the 3 kamaels (ill not say about judicator cause i never saw one) is the extreme high speed they got with hard march and warp, the female kamaels are unreacheable, no matter how much you try, slow don't land, root don't land (if land they can warp rooted) if you loose ww for any reason the match is lost. Very few classes can counter that, the few that can can't counter disarm, full hp regen, high level burst damage or op nukes and debuffs. Its not even funny.
in oly it is almost impossible to resist, unless u have the buffs lordriot mentioned above. that is why it lands all the time.
yeah i noticed....
what I am saying is that the duration of it should be fixed and should be less than the reuse....... In addition it shouldn't be allowed to enchatn for time......
I could even agree with the land rate but then skill would come into play as how fast I can reequip my weapon and how do i deal with the time without it.... but if I can never requip it, there is no skill involved.....
But the Best way to Balance a Skill that realy overpowers a char is plain simple and already used in the most Successfull MMO...
Diminishing Returns : Diminishing returns means that certain spells and abilities are less effective against players characters if they are used frequently within a short period of time.
This is mostly bs. Playing a Kamael is boring before 80 because people told you? This coming from a player of a class that presses 4 buttons (one of which is actually a toggle).
As to Disarm: It's only problem is that it simply lasts too long when highly enchanted. The game is so badly balanced that you'd have to do too many things to make such a nerf viable. Which is probably why they never bothered in the first place.
Necro class does much more than presses 4 buttons if you ever had the chance to see one playing.
About Disarm,oed or not oed,there are classes that cant do anything when they dont carry a weapon(like nukers)and dont have option run away untill disarm fades since Kamaels have higher running speed,even for this one only, disarm needed to be fixed.
I dont even comment mass disarm+light spikes animation of skills on siege..........
The Duellist can also disarm, and it does way more damage than a Doombringer. It has Rush Impact and close range stun, more HP+CP, and more besides.
The only difference here is that Doombringer Disarm can be enchanted for an insane amount of duration time and has a shorter cool-down. None of which actually matters as in that same short time a nuker would have been crushed by the Duellist in the first place. A Doombringer can't hit you for 20k, but a Duellist can...
Obviously we're talking oly here as Disarm is almost laughable in world pvp when you consider the 'capped' Doombringer damage. Despite all this, it's the Doombringer that's the problem... Sure the +time enchant is silly but the class is much weaker than other DD's in many other ways.
Again people need to understand, this game can not be balanced for 1v1. It's just not practical.
I am 84 Duelist and Disarm has a rly bad land rate. It got downgraded from a lvl 83 skill to a lvl 80 skill and is not Enchantable. Even as lvl 83 skill ppl resisted often in Oly and for outside oly pvp it was and is now even more useless vs. fullbuffed ppl.
Also the mentioned lvl 83 Rush Impact (not enchanteable also) has a bad land rate/duration. I have zaken+tezza+TW Jewel for +stun attack and the land rate of stun is not even like 50% on mobs in GC lower or Delusion while they are white and light green to me. And when it lands it lasts for like 2-3sec.
@LordRiot
If u wanna compare Duelist and DB u must check all skills of them, but let's stay on topic about Disarm.
I am 84 Duelist and Disarm has a rly bad land rate. It got downgraded from a lvl 83 skill to a lvl 80 skill and is not Enchantable. Even as lvl 83 skill ppl resisted often in Oly and for outside oly pvp it was and is now even more useless vs. fullbuffed ppl.
Also the mentioned lvl 83 Rush Impact (not enchanteable also) has a bad land rate/duration. I have zaken+tezza+TW Jewel for +stun attack and the land rate of stun is not even like 50% on mobs in GC lower or Delusion while they are white and light green to me. And when it lands it lasts for like 2-3sec.
@LordRiot
If u wanna compare Duelist and DB u must check all skills of them, but let's stay on topic about Disarm.
I'm not comparing DB to a Duellist. I'm comparing the Duellists ability to kill a nuker (like Atarth) in the time they are disarmed in oly. Both of these classes can rush in up close with a stunning attack. Both can Disarm. Only one of them can then kill that nuker in a single attack... Hint: It's not the Doombringer.
The point is for Atarth (and other nukers) it doesn't matter how long it lasts. It doesn't matter how short it's cool-down is. There is a good chance that in the space of a few seconds she will be dead anyway...
Edit: Skill level doesn't affect all skills the same way (Cancellation/Steal Divinity for example). Disarm and Weapon Blockade are mechanically the same skill and have the same 'base' landrate. I can't say for sure how much taking Disarm to +30 affects the landrate, but the difference isn't that big at all.
Have to agree with u about 2hit a normal ele resisted nuker with TSS + additional skill.
But still Disarm has a horrible land rate since its lvl 80. Since the change it failed with 100% vs. my oponents. Didnt even land on a lvl 81 Titan 4/4 times. And he had no mental or high oe wisdom.
Failed also vs. 83 summoner, 84 summoner, 83,85 GK etc. Tested it a lot in Duels. Gonna test more in Oly to see if i should remove it at all from the skill bar. Would like to hear experience from other Duelists and or all-knowing Diego ^^
But the Best way to Balance a Skill that realy overpowers a char is plain simple and already used in the most Successfull MMO...
Diminishing Returns : Diminishing returns means that certain spells and abilities are less effective against players characters if they are used frequently within a short period of time.
That's a really good idea and that will also be implemented in GoD. Only problem with this is currently that he only needs to use disarm one time and the match is over.
I'm not comparing DB to a Duellist. I'm comparing the Duellists ability to kill a nuker (like Atarth) in the time they are disarmed in oly. Both of these classes can rush in up close with a stunning attack. Both can Disarm. Only one of them can then kill that nuker in a single attack... Hint: It's not the Doombringer.
The point is for Atarth (and other nukers) it doesn't matter how long it lasts. It doesn't matter how short it's cool-down is. There is a good chance that in the space of a few seconds she will be dead anyway...
Edit: Skill level doesn't affect all skills the same way (Cancellation/Steal Divinity for example). Disarm and Weapon Blockade are mechanically the same skill and have the same 'base' landrate. I can't say for sure how much taking Disarm to +30 affects the landrate, but the difference isn't that big at all.
I am not sure that disarm and Weapon Blockade has the same base landrate. I have resisted Weapon Blockage mange times... to say the least that skill never lands, yet I can get disarmed easily by an a-garde Chicken... See the problem? ^^
2- Koreans did tests and determined that disarm land rate is affected by the target's Str.
High Str = High Disarm Resist.
Low Str = Get ready to suffer mages QQ
Very True. It's been long since I gave up using disarm against Orc fighters in old times.. Oh wait.. that was rush impact.. :D
I miss my disarms... The new disarm of awakened warrior class skill is not as good as of those Doombringers.. :(
Although the duration of an oed Kamael Disarm is really screwed, they are just doing their roles.
I recall reading in thousand of places that the whole new race of Kamael were meant for one purpose and one alone: PvP.
They are suppossed to be the BEST race on PvP. Just take their skills: Lots of them have bonuses when used on a PvP match. This is just who they are.
Elves have speed, DEs have damage, humans are balanced, Orcs have HP and P.Atk, dwarves make money either by crafting or spoiling and Kamael are for PvP.
Races have roles, don't go all QQ about how this or that Kamael skill is op in Oly or in Sieges.
If this makes you mad, just go there and prove your point by the blade of your sword/mind.
++Time is kinda over but also are other oed skills from other classes...
Stop with this topic please
Especially that weeping necromancer
Please learn to use your skills
For example:
some of the necromancer:
fear
silence (bye bye soul cleanse)
chaos curse
Weakness
Transfer pain )))))) lol <<<<<<
V. Claw (900 range) 300 + any rush
curse gloom
Poison
anchor <<<<from level 40 lolololololol
death spike
curse death link (less hp more damage)
Curse of desease
mass fear .... mass slow....
others in the Soultaker:
Dark Vortex
curse of doom >>>>>> 1 minute without physical or magical skills (you have no right to complain about the disarm)
Mass Warrior Bane
Curse of Abyss
mage bane mass
Gehenna (LOL) X4
"Not to mention that the summon can not be disarmed."
Each race has its particularity, and each profession as well.
So let the chickens alone. And buy a pair of hands.:cool:
Regardless of the necro crying, which is sorta lol, disarm is OP. It'd be one thing if it had a longer cool down, so that it could only be used like once every few min, but that is not the case. They should either nerf the land rate or kill the reuse time.
Regardless of the necro crying, which is sorta lol, disarm is OP. It'd be one thing if it had a longer cool down, so that it could only be used like once every few min, but that is not the case. They should either nerf the land rate or kill the reuse time.
Yes maybe is OP but think:
Paladin/DA can kill a berseker without weapon:
shackle (range 600), cast time 2sec, reuse time 4sec.
shield strike, cast time 1.08 sec, reuse time 6 sec.
shield stun, cast time 1.2sec, reuse time 3 sec.
elves have speed, des have damage, humans are balanced, orcs have hp and p.atk, dwarves make money either by crafting or spoiling and kamael are for pvp.
what?
Although the duration of an oed Kamael Disarm is really screwed, they are just doing their roles.
I recall reading in thousand of places that the whole new race of Kamael were meant for one purpose and one alone: PvP.
They are suppossed to be the BEST race on PvP. Just take their skills: Lots of them have bonuses when used on a PvP match. This is just who they are.
Elves have speed, DEs have damage, humans are balanced, Orcs have HP and P.Atk, dwarves make money either by crafting or spoiling and Kamael are for PvP.
Races have roles, don't go all QQ about how this or that Kamael skill is op in Oly or in Sieges.
If this makes you mad, just go there and prove your point by the blade of your sword/mind.
++Time is kinda over but also are other oed skills from other classes...
Sorry, but this was the intended. Also, I forgot to mention the stuns and all blunt stuff, but, when they were created, dwarves were meant to be banks, moneymakers and to move the market with their own hands. It's their nature.
Their skills enhace the max items you can private buy/sell, they have craftshop, they milk mats faster than anyone and they produce equipament for the entire server, when the drop rate was down low.
If boxes didn't existed and people played their main as it should be, PPs wouldn't be underused and dwarves would be the marketeers...
That all was said to support the point that Kamael was made for PvP.
Can I tell you last few months NOBODY except IVM crafted ANYTHING on me?
Nowadays, all roles are messed up...
As said. Healers are nuking. SE's are doing only Stigma or healing, when they should SUPPORT the actual healer (Cardi). We all know we can do this all the day long...
- Prelude - C1 Age of Human Knights, almost 100% Shield stun, and in the beginning even no breaking during damage. Chain stunning FTW.
- C2 Age of Daggers, even though with the broken Vicious stance even Warriors classes did WFTPWN, but people like to blame Daggers only.
- C3 Age Of SPS, Nuke, Sleep, Nuke, Sleep, Autohit - Die YAY! Archers got strong but still needed the initial crit or got lolowned by SPS.
- C4 Age of Anchor. 3Button class, Gloom, Anchor, Autoattack, nuke whatever faceroll. Archers got strong but still needed the initial crit or got lolowned by Necro.
- C5 Archers / Duelists.
- C6 Broken Chickens.
etc. I'm sure the dedicated fotm rerollers can go deeper into detail.
2011 GOD? Hell at least we got Dimishing returns now.
- add Archers to C1 aswell (especially SR's)
- C2 had broken dagger skills (DB, BS) not VS iirc, warriors didn't stand a chance against daggers.
EDIT:
True true, but SRs haven't even been close to the fotm, that's why i didn't list them.
As for Dagger Skills, i stand corrected. But still,
people loved to blame Daggers because of the the high base damage on anything other than Tanks that dagger skills had in common. Then even in UD the skills completely bypassed p.def. making DB hit him hard and kill Tanks during UD.
A Glads TSS with VS pretty much oneshot any on level Dagger in C2. The Dagger needed to land BS / DB. So it was more of a 50/50. But you can't just spam TSS without charging up like a dagger can use DB / BS. And most Glads rather opened with a Ranged attack, so it's been "multiple" attacks to kill anything. Sure daggers got it easy, Mighty Mortal SA anyone? Increasing landrate of DB as much as Critical rating buffs. And Dagger Attacks are Critical by default unlike TSS.
A dagger just been running up to you, used DB / BS with VS, one shot robe users, so people remember only the "One shot" of Daggers. But believe me Glads pretty much TSS-ed the **** out of Daggers/anything back then too with VS + DW too, granted they have been pre charged up. Oh and you get BS at lvl40 and there are three Classes who get BS but only one with TSS. So the availability on classes was a huge factor too, esp. with all the emo darkkillerx Dagger fotm re-roles. Tyrant skills didn't hit hard enough back then (base damage) to oneshot stuff durign a crit with VS and DW buff.
Most Daggers died to autoattack from Glads with VS + DW Buff durign a critical hit, but daggers had it easier to archive that - Result: Age of Dagger.
http://www.lineage2.com/news/chronicle3_07.html
*The success rates of Mortal Blow, Deadly Blow, and Backstab skills were adjusted so as not to be affected by the skills that increase critical rates. MP costs of such skills were reduced. (Hunters Dance + MM SA =almost 100% DB landrate)
*In the past, critical damage-raising buffs and passive skills would have the critical power not be affected by the target's defense stat. From now on, increased critical power will be influenced by a target's defense. Critical attack skills, likewise, are affected by the target's defense.
But enough of derailing this thread. Birdys had their time, we should focus on what's the next fotm :D