I would like to ask for any suggestions thought from ppl that have experimented with different mage party setups for Dragon Valley. I am trying for a "safe" configuration meaning easy killing / no deaths. According to what I have seen till now and some info at korean site I was thinking of the following setup
1) Good Tank (getting mobs keeping agro)
2) Domi (Buffs + hold / silence when needed)
3) Cardi (Healing + Stigma from skill link)
4) EE (Recharging + some additional healing when needed)
5) BD (Offensive Mage Dances)
6) Nuker
7) Nuker
8) Nuker
9) Nuker
a) What nukers are preffered / should be avoided ?
b) Is a SWS required ? (aka can't the extra nuker make up with faster killing speed for the songs missing ?)
c) Which DV areas should be preferred at start when still experimenting ? Is there an area that a mage party should avoid in any case ?
d) Is the 4rth nuker an overkill for 18k HP mobs ?
e) 80+ supports are OK if all nukers are 82+ ? Level of toons needed in general ? Or all 80+ w 3x60 armor + 150 weapon is OK ?
f ) Could a spoiler fit in or a mage party does not have that option ?
Any other tips in general ?
Our friends playing at Korean Server and have been experimenting there for much longer than us have any tips to share ?
I would like to ask for any suggestions thought from ppl that have experimented with different mage party setups for Dragon Valley. I am trying for a "safe" configuration meaning easy killing / no deaths.
Try:
1. Spoiler
2. Dominator
3. ST or ET or EM (or actually any summoner, or even a second spoiler)
4. EvS 83+
5. SD/SwM/nukers in whatever combitations you want.
- and you won't care about "no deaths" anymore :)
Hint: ST or ET or summoner or a dorf in the 3rd slot don't need to be at the grinding spot. Just being in party with you is enough for the proper level of the area buff to activate.
About nukers - from MM perspective.
Even MM (aka eat MP to make nice animation with no dmg) do quite nice dmg there.
Amour 60 elemnt on each is ok, just if you get aggro from entire group only REALLY good healer can avoid dead :)
With yellow mobs fail of nuke is preatty rare and dmg is normal as for MM with 150 element.
MP can be a problem so SS or ES OOP would be cool.
As was mention to avoid unnecessary deaths add SWM to party.
It can tank if is necessary single mobs efficiently.
Still with dmg from worms Domi with root is must.
Tank is to garter mobs or/and keep new re-spawn far from robes.
About spoiler.
I've been as spoiler there but with melee.
I haven't been impressed about spoils.
If you look for Noble stones you have to go inside Nest - to "running mobs"
Here you can spoil a lot enria and some rec's and from mini-bosses single noble stones.
Rest not worth to mention.
In principle FS with nuker set is not best combination unless is like pole party (FoG) .. but here he has hard time.
All DD are quite far from mobs ....only he is always close.
He get almost instant aggro and still he not have such good Pdef as tank (and miss skills).
I would guess maybe with all melee dances + VR if he would pole with some HP as backup ...
But dancing all melee + nuker + singing SWM would drain SD MP too fast not mention MP of healer ;)
Adding nukers who are relay on MP as result you possible will get MP problems.
Much easier is join as FS melee party
P.S. I'm not saying that is impossible to get nuker + FS bu much easier tune FS with melee.
About nukers - from MM perspective.
Even MM (aka eat MP to make nice animation with no dmg) do quite nice dmg there.
Amour 60 elemnt on each is ok, just if you get aggro from entire group only REALLY good healer can avoid dead :)
If you single-target, a moderately good healer will just keep the rest of the group tranced. The mobs are low-mdef, and trance lands well even on the "sleep resist" mobs there (even the para augment on my lowbie AL lands almost every time there).
MP can be a problem so SS or ES OOP would be cool.
MP is not a problem if you have a spoiler in the party.
As was mention to avoid unnecessary deaths add SWM to party.
It can tank if is necessary single mobs efficiently.
SwM adds some sense of security there, but isn't really needed to start a party rolling. Anyone (including - from personal experience - an AL in DC robes) can tank a couple of mobs there in a ranged party. The mobs aren't particularly fast.
About spoiler.
I've been as spoiler there but with melee.
I haven't been impressed about spoils.
If you look for Noble stones you have to go inside Nest - to "running mobs"
Here you can spoil a lot enria and some rec's and from mini-bosses single noble stones.
Rest not worth to mention.
The main reason to get a spoiler in any DV party is that every successful sweep causes an MP herb drop. If you have a spoiler, MP in DV becomes a non-issue.
The second main reason is that spoiler adds +1 level to the DV area buff.
And the 3rd main reason is that spoiler has a chance to spoil a 5-minute(?) party vitality 4 buff there.
The spoiled mats by themselves (which include vesper robe recipes, btw) are of secondary importance.
Much easier is join as FS melee party
An FS might be more interested in getting into a melee party, that's true. You will need to somehow persuade them to join your gimp mage party ;)
Hint: ST or ET or summoner or a dorf in the 3rd slot don't need to be at the grinding spot. Just being in party with you is enough for the proper level of the area buff to activate.
I was under the impression that only successful spoil activates the buff and has nothing to do with ST / ET / Summoner. I miss something out or just I misunderstood what you said ?
Is there any specific reason you insist on summoner ? I guess that necro is a good choice ?
MP is not a problem if you have a spoiler in the party.
The main reason to get a spoiler in any DV party is that every successful sweep causes an MP herb drop. If you have a spoiler, MP in DV becomes a non-issue.
The second main reason is that spoiler adds +1 level to the DV area buff.
And the 3rd main reason is that spoiler has a chance to spoil a 5-minute(?) party vitality 4 buff there.
An FS might be more interested in getting into a melee party, that's true. You will need to somehow persuade them to join your gimp mage party ;)
1) So a recharger - secondary healer is not needed ? Or still needed but much easier ?
2) Adding +1 level in area buff has to do with successfuly spoiling ?
3) Indeed, and ofc as clearly explained earlier by other poster, I also always had issues with spoiler in a mage pt, that's the main reason I asked. Doesn't seem to work out smoothly.
I was under the impression that only successful spoil activates the buff
I don't remember being there without a spoiler, so maybe you are right and the spoiler is required to get the buff. In the normal course of action (and if you have a spoiler), once your party starts grinding, the buff appears on all your party members and stays for as long as you grind.
and has nothing to do with ST / ET / Summoner. I miss something out or just I misunderstood what you said ?
The buff has 3 levels:
===
* Morale Boost Buff Level 1: Increased Paralysis/Bleed/Poison/Stun Resistance by 50, Critical Rate by 10%, and Critical Power by 10%. The buff only remains while you are in Dragon Valley.
* Morale Boost Buff Level 2: Increased Paralysis/Bleed/Poison/Stun Resistance by 80, Critical Rate by 30%, Critical Power by 15%, P. Atk. by 15%, and M. Atk. by 15%. The buff only remains while you are in Dragon Valley.
* Morale Boost Buff Level 3: Increased Paralysis/Bleed/Poison/Stun Resistance by 90, Critical Rate by 50%, Critical Power by 20%, P. Atk. by 15%, M. Atk. by 15%, Atk. Spd. by 15%, Casting Speed by 15%, and XP by 20%. The buff only remains while you are in Dragon Valley.
===
The level 1 gives you the basic poison resistance you'd better have there. The level 3 is the ultimate level you should pursue.
The buff level depends only on your party composition. And so far it does not matter if all the party is on the grinding spot or some members are still in town. Different classes have different "weight" factors in adding to the level of the buff. Most classes have a very low weight (like 10% of a level or less), some classes have weight that is close to 100% of a level (dorfs, "true" summoners, both elven tanks, dominators), some classes (Ghost Hunter, for example) seem to be somewhere inbetween. If you have several high-weight class toons of the same class (like 2 spoilers) their weights add up.
Is there any specific reason you insist on summoner ? I guess that necro is a good choice ?
From my experience, a necro has a low weight in the buff. As opposed to the "true" summoners.
1) So a recharger - secondary healer is not needed ? Or still needed but much easier ?
PvE-wise you better keep the recharger than the Cardi. Especially if the recharger (or the Dominator) has Chain Heal. Mass-poisons are easier to be mass-cured, and the recharger is more used to watch for the spoiler's MP and to take corrective actions when needed (no MP on a spoiler -> no spoils -> no MP herbs).
Go for SE if you hunt the mobs that can mass-paralyse (unless you absolutely sure in your trancer's ability to keep the party safe from para) or just don't hunt those mobs.
3) Indeed, and ofc as clearly explained earlier by other poster, I also always had issues with spoiler in a mage pt, that's the main reason I asked. Doesn't seem to work out smoothly.
As long as they consider themselves "not a DD", they should be fine. Of course, if they try to tank something like the drakos group spawns, they are going to end up with lots of extra SP :D
c) Which DV areas should be preferred at start when still experimenting ? Is there an area that a mage party should avoid in any case ?
Start from the center DV port and try to hunt scorpions ("bones") and then leeches.
Depending on the quality of the party (buffs/songs/gear, healers' reflexes, awareness of the DDs and support about their surrounding), the drakos group areas may either be a lot of fun to play or be prohibitively hard.
e) 80+ supports are OK if all nukers are 82+ ? Level of toons needed in general ? Or all 80+ w 3x60 armor + 150 weapon is OK ?
For the support, anything higher than 75(*) may do, but the teleports inside are 80+, so you may need to summon/gate your lower-level support. Bear in mind, though, that a lowbie SD in Tallum Heavy hitting the mobs usually has a very short life span ;)
Edit:
*) "76+ with 3rd class transfer done" was meant by "anything higher than 75"
try:
Hint: St or et or summoner or a dorf in the 3rd slot don't need to be at the grinding spot. Just being in party with you is enough for the proper level of the area buff to activate.
For the support, anything higher than 75 may do, but the teleports inside are 80+, so you may need to summon/gate your lower-level support. Bear in mind, though, that a lowbie SD in Tallum Heavy hitting the mobs usually has a very short life span ;)
i would like to correct that to 'anything higher than 76 with 3rd class' because you'll only get the area buff if all party members have thier 'blue class icon' ;)
(...)
The main reason to get a spoiler in any DV party is that every successful sweep causes an MP herb drop. If you have a spoiler, MP in DV becomes a non-issue.
Ahh you got me!
When I was with FS we had MP potions and indeed no MP problems.
Thus with MM I notice lack MP pots .. then I was thought that it is related to 'stage' of Anthy hunt or whatever :D
would SE be a better choice than EE? just for Wild magic?
or do the benefits of an EE far outweigh Wild magic?
also does VR help the tank any?
i've been here, but not in nuker parties.
we usually started with TK, Necro, Domi, EE, BD, Sws, Spoiler... others
EE is pretty goood at crowd control, so if Domi is boxed, probably ok to add extra DDs... a live domi helps a lot though.
1) Good Tank (getting mobs keeping agro)
2) Domi (Buffs + hold / silence when needed) domi is fine.
-Hidropunt with counter strike with resist earth & dark is highly recommended. (need EE with SE skill for magic)
3) Cardi (Party recall skill with skill link is recommended.) Stigma is not needed since it's mage party.
4) EE (Recharging + some additional healing when needed) Has to have SE skill for magic.
EE is must to put ranged attack mob to sleep.
5) BD (Offensive Mage Dances) Stand apart from SWS so that BD don't get song. BD don't move. stands at fixed place and just dance.
6) SWS Don't even think about starting party w/o SWS. (Silence dance a must.) Stand apart from BD so SWS don't get dance. After the song, have to move when tanker comes with mobs to sing silence.
7) Doombringer, Soulhound or DN to either stun the mobs or paralize them.
8) Nuker
9) Nuker
This is how we do it.
The above setting is actually for the mage party for harder zone in anthara's layer.
Don't know the name you guys call it, Something like the heart of DV if I'd translate what we call it.
It's area where you noble teleport to go for valakas.
Minimum lvl for the party is 83.
I've only hunted there, so I don't know the typical setting out side of the antharas layer. But I think it's similar. Probably a fortune seeker can replace dn for spoil if hunting small groups of mobs. The above party is for mass group hunting for mass xp. Can be easilly wiped out by the mobs if doombringer and dn fails to stun the mobs. The doombringers and dn are VERY importnant. Even the very well equipped tanker can be easilly killed there.
If there's anakim in above party.. you will experience totally new sensation in heart of DV. I've seen lvl 83 character lvl up 8% in half an hour with no vitality.
would SE be a better choice than EE? just for Wild magic?
or do the benefits of an EE far outweigh Wild magic?
EE has Wild Magic.
also does VR help the tank any?
I don't think the tank actually needs to hit the mobs. Kinda takes away from the whole idea of a ranged party. Especially if it's a fast running tank with 360 degree shield block.
Krissa I have been today in nuker party with FS .. and it is great.
Just FS has to keep ninja style not fighting with mobs :)
Domi is Must ... rest ... SWM not, tank not as well.
Just buffs, dances, power of nukes .. and FS :)
The perfect setup for EXP only mage pt in dragon valley is:
1. Fortune Seeker. (mana spoil +1 morale buff)
2. Dominator (root/silence/ seal of limit)
3. Blade dancer (with siren dance)
4. Elemental summoner (+1 moral buff good mass magic skills/reuse/mana regen)
5. Eva Saint (sleep/heal)
6. Cardinal/SWM/Nucker
7. SoulTaker (+1 moral mass gloom)
8. Nuker
9. Nuker
With such a configuration you will got 20% bonus exp from boost moral level 3
You will never be out of mana
Damage will be enough to kill a mob for 2-3 sec
Looks like both Dominator and Soultaker are about +0.5 morale buff each. More testing is probably needed :)
At first thank you all for the overwhelming number of usefull posts / tips / hints.
Though the course of conversation leads to different path from safe hunting for an inexperienced party to 100% optimal xp I would gladly join. Korean site confirms the different weight of toons in increased morale buff. Official Korean l2labs has run an experiment to find out the differences. The article is at
Using translated version and bits of guessing / clicking / interpreting we are able to get the basics, since translating of images is not possible we really miss the conclusions.
Would it be far fetched to ask from some of our friends that can read Korean to give us the some translation for the images or the conclution ? (if there is any)
Dear destructor, ty for taking part, it was very useful for to confirm that the hunting tips at the official Korean web site are accurate and tested by real parties. The name of the place for us (NCNA/EU) is LOA (Lair of Antharas) or DVC (Dragon Valley Cave) for some old dogs and the place i was reffering to was the easier DV (Dragon Valley), the area outside.
Appart from that and returning to my initial post, according to your tips I have ended up to the following conclusions
1) It seems that the propposed setup is "safer" than it could be (Tank + Domi + Cardi + EE)
2) A spoiler is must not only for the increased morale buff but also for the increased MP herb drops
3) A true summoner would be optimal because it was an increased weight to improved morale (already confirmed by l2labs which has him in par with spoiler)
Are all that OK till now ?
Apart from the above and the countless setups that we could examine in terms of effectiveness, I have also ended up to the conclution that a party with
1) Tank
2) Domi
3) Cardi
4) EE
5) BD
6) Nukers
should do just fine or I miss something ?
What bothers me at start is not the efficiency / optimization but the survivability, I am concerned for an easy mode party where mistakes can be made at start but not causing deaths :)
Would that party had MP problems because of the absence of a spoiler ? Or survivability problems having to do need for chain heal / mass purify ? Is there a change that is 100% necessary in order for the party to hunt ? Is some some skill (meaning not some of their native skills but taken from skill link system) from the above supports 100% needed ?
/end
300 Nuker
300 Nuker
300 Nuker
83 EE
83 EE
BP
SWS
BD
WC
OOP OL, ES
Then stay around the corner and wait till a PvE party of wartags comes, hopefully without a radar :rolleyes:
2) A spoiler is must not only for the increased morale buff but also for the increased MP herb drops
You are missing the point. Without a spoiler, MP herbs won't drop at all there.
3) A true summoner would be optimal because it was an increased weight to improved morale (already confirmed by l2labs which has him in par with spoiler)
You can replace a true summoner with one more spoiler though.
Apart from the above and the countless setups that we could examine in terms of effectiveness, I have also ended up to the conclution that a party with
1) Tank
2) Domi
3) Cardi
4) EE
5) BD
6) Nukers
should do just fine or I miss something ?
What bothers me at start is not the efficiency / optimization but the survivability, I am concerned for an easy mode party where mistakes can be made at start but not causing deaths :)
I wouldn't consider your party "an easy mode". One Deadly Poison AoE when the EE is too busy with recharges (and EE in your party will always be too busy with recharges), and you party can be wiped.
You are missing the point. Without a spoiler, MP herbs won't drop at all there.
You can replace a true summoner with one more spoiler though.
I wouldn't consider your party "an easy mode". One Deadly Poison AoE when the EE is too busy with recharges (and EE in your party will always be too busy with recharges), and you party can be wiped.
If you want a safe party, get a spoiler.
KK, I get the point. No spoiler = less (or very serious lack of ?) MP + EE const recharging = danger of death (or very high possibility ?) + lower (or nothing at all ?) morale buff
What I still haven't figured out yet is if successful spoil is absolutely needed for the buff to activate or if it depends only on classes of party members. As stated at Final Patch Notes http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=213515
You can randomly obtain either MP Herbs or the Morale Boost buff if a Spoil attack lands successfully on a certain monster.
Does that mean
1) Successful spoil increases the buff you already have according to party member classes ?
or
2) Only successful spoil activates the buff which you keep as long us you hunt at DV, adjusted to a level according to party member classes ?
Trying to end up to a finite conclusion for a good + safe setup ..
1) FS | Spoiler | Mana spoils + heavy weight in morale buff
2) OL | Dominator | For obvious reasons + crowd control + heavy weight in morale buff
3) EE | Eva Saint | Recharging + Some Healing + Trance / Mass Vitalize if something goes wrong
4) BD | Spectral Dancer | Obvious Reasons
5) ES | Elemental Master | Cool summon for mage pt + heavy weight in morale buff
6) NECRO | Soul Taker | Debuffs if needed + fast c. speed / low mp consumption + bit of crowd control if needed + less sensitive to hits + intermediate morale buff
7) SH | Storm Screamer | Firepower
8) SH | Storm Screamer | Firepower
9) WildCard, could be Tank (ET/ST preferred for morale buff) or Cardinal or Summoner or Nuker or second spoiler or sws
KK, I get the point. No spoiler = less (or very serious lack of ?) MP + EE const recharging = danger of death (or very high possibility ?) + lower (or nothing at all ?) morale buff
Your party setup has neither a spolier nor an SwM. With an SwM, you could survive with some mana rests. But, honestly, get a spoiler.
or
2) Only successful spoil activates the buff which you keep as long us you hunt at DV, adjusted to a level according to party member classes ?
Something like that. I'm not sure which condition (spoiling or sweeping) activates the buff, but just starting to hit the mobs there is not enough.
Trying to end up to a finite conclusion for a good + safe setup ..
Don't try to make an ideal party. Just start with some essential classes and don't overpull the mobs. Later, you might want to replace some players with better ones.
OK Vally topic been beaten to dead now imo so time to discuss the same for DVC muhahaha... show me some pics of mage parties mass killing the kariks as I know that's doable for top parties :)
OK Vally topic been beaten to dead now imo so time to discuss the same for DVC muhahaha... show me some pics of mage parties mass killing the kariks as I know that's doable for top parties :)
You can use anahkim transforms there I see some partys do it.
After trying myself thought I should share some info.
The chosen party setup led to Morale Boost Buff Level 3 up all the time. We had Spoiler, Tank, Domi, BD, EE, ES, 3 x StS.
Spoiler was essential (at least for our Mage pt). Spoil / Sweep activated the Morale Buff and lot's of MP Herbs.
We had tank as MA and to control aggro, Domi to buff and root, dances from BD, EE to Vitalize recharge and heal a bit when needed, ES for the MP regen summon, and mages to kill.
Some observations. As noted before while some classes (i.e. Tank or Summoner) may not be "needed" 100% or there is a better choice, it's exactly those classes that make sure that Morale Buff goes to Level 3. The benefit from the "Buff level 3: Increased Paralysis/Bleed/Poison/Stun Resistance by 90, Critical Rate by 50%, Critical Power by 20%, P.Atk. by 15%, M.Atk. by 15%, Atk.Spd. by 15%, Casting Speed by 15%, and XP by 20%." seem too great to overlook and get some other class ..
I had some thoughts about not having a Cardi but things went very smooth. Some heals needed here and there but the EE was more than enough because there was plenty of MP and not much need for vitalize because of resists from Morale Buff.
I also had some thoughts about missing SWS but (at least for mages at scorpions) the absence went unnoticed. Other classes made up for that absence activating Morale Buff / MP Regen / MP Herbs
By the way, spoiler is not required to activate Morale buff (the buff can activate without a spoiler in the party), but is still essential for a nuker party and/or for a party with a single healer.
Also, at some harder spots (those huge groups of leeches between south port and AL entrance) lvl 83+ Dominator's Chain Heal is very appreciated as a powerful backup heal.
Yup, without the summoner, you probably went from something like morale lvl 3.1 to 1.9, and that got rounded down to 1 (since summoners give more than one whole buff lvl).
Like somebody already wrote above, a sure way of getting morale buff lvl 3 is spoiler+summoner+non-human tank in party (elf/dark elf).
Maybe someone can translate the tables on this page here, they are graphics and google translate does not work on them:
Yup, asked the same some posts before. The other info I got, is listed on official web page constructed by "modified" users tips. I guess that by including them as guides / tip in official web page (slightly editing them first) NCKR endorses them and acknowledges the validity but .. Anyway ..