In the past year, I have leveled 6 characters from 1-60+. Over the course of that year, the adena crunch has bugged me, no honestly, infuriated me... but the exact problem eluded me til this past week.
I agree with many of the complaints about the game economy, but they are hard to read, and the solutions benefit few (raid bosses? The average casual player will probably never see a raid boss or group instance, and a new player will never be geared sufficiently for anyone to let him join one).
In a nutshell: NCSoft gave players the means to level up fast (Nevits blessing/hourglasses, Vitality system), but did not increase the drops. This has meant that I kill the same mob, get 450% more xp when I have max vit and hour blessing... and mobs drop at the same rate as 100%. What happens next is compounding of the adena crunch... by 450%... compared to PRELUDE!
Assuming I only play 1 hour a day on that toon, I can maintain the 4 vit almost indefinitely, but I can never afford gear even at the store. Obviously, I can transfer gear and assets from my main, but if I am a new player, I am going to hit a point where I am:
1. unable to kill monsters not dark blue to me thereby dropping no loot, adena or xp... but I still cannot afford gear to kill light blue mobs
2. beg, borrow, steal adena from existing players/characters
3. spend time playing merchant (which some players do NOT enjoy at all)
3. buy adena to keep playing
I leveled up so fast that I hit the above points, not once, but SIX times. I know for a fact if I didn't transfer gears, I'd be stopped dead from playing that toon. The only killable mobs would be dark blue, and my gear incapable of killing light blue (think D or C grade gear killing nearly A grade mobs).
Example:
Prelude
1x XP (no vit no hourglass), typical level 52 mob
Mob gives 10,000 xp
Mob drops 1,000 adena
Assume kill rate of 1 mob per minute
Result: 1 hour playtime = 600,000 xp / 60,000 adena
XP/Level @51-52 = 5.7 mil xp total
Time to level: 5.7 mil / 600K = 10 hours
Adena Earned = 600,000 adena
(this is solo, if partied, divide the drop by party #, then multiply kill rate by # of CRITICAL to party kill speed toons in party).
Hi5 (full 300% vit / 50% blessing = 450% xp per kill)
- assume all of the above base #s
Result: 1 hour playtime = 2,700,000 XP / 60,000 adena
Time to level: less than 2 hours to 52
Adena Earned = 600,000
Same adena, made in 2 hours instead of 10... but you leveled to 52, need that much incrementally higher gear for the next level mobs, in 8 hours less time in the above example.
WHY? Because you got more XP per mob kill, but SAME ADENA RATE because the SAME number of mobs are killed to level.
This problem compounds every single level. Because you cannot farm dark dark blues for adena, you hit a point very quickly when your gear cannot kill ANYTHING dark blue to earn money.
Just what good will advertising do to get new members when you set them up for failure from day 1?
It is completely illogical to drain old players adena float off the backs of brand new players coming into the game, they will simply quit because they have no means of ever becoming competitive without buying outside adena.
Increase monster adena/gear drops to compensate for the 450% XP increases that you gave us!!
Your second example is off (Adena earned is less than 120k according to your example).
As you level, the mobs drop more and more money.
Manor.
Clan help.
Non-gear dependent toons.
Party.
Work the market?
I mean, what are you trying to say? You can't afford gear by straight grinding? Not only do I not think that's true (common items) but why doesn't your "analysis" provide suggestions for alternatives? You seem to be banging your head against the wall and complaining about a headache. There are options, explore them.
You can not make do with Adena drops from mobs.....It has been this way since Beta (back then you didn't even make enough adena to spam shots). As a GK/Tyrant I make enough off adena drops to just about cover what I spend on S Shots now a days.
Saying that it is not very hard to make it all the way to 76 with common gear....then it's just a matter of farming forts untill you make what you need to buy S grade gear.
Forts are just one example of ways to make adena....Fishing, Playing the market (buying low selling high), Manor system, farming AA....these all work good.
You will never become a rich person working a 9 to 5 job. Doing this you will be able to sustain yourself and have time to complain about all the others that have so much more than you.
Just like in real life you have to find ways to make more than the average worker if you want better stuff. It has always been this way and will continue this way until the end of times. Another solution to your dilemma would be to STOP LEVELING SO FAST.
But I highly doubt that will happen, since many like you have been complaining about how hard it is to level. Be careful what ask for you may get it.
Your second example is off (Adena earned is less than 120k according to your example).
As you level, the mobs drop more and more money.
Manor.
Clan help.
Non-gear dependent toons.
Party.
Work the market?
I mean, what are you trying to say? You can't afford gear by straight grinding? Not only do I not think that's true (common items) but why doesn't your "analysis" provide suggestions for alternatives? You seem to be banging your head against the wall and complaining about a headache. There are options, explore them.
I'm working that system of maintaining lvl 4 vit and i absolutely hate the market id dont set a foot in giran.
a lvl 1 to 20 toon can earn like a good 500 k adena with wich u can buy a common armor and u lose all u'r monney on that and shots .
if u just do kama's from that point on, u lose all u'r monney too on the shots alone cuz kama's dont drop monney...(big mistake imo kama's should drop monney / mats too ).
so when u reach lvl 40 u absolutely have nothing to get u'r C grade gears .
No quests for C grade gears taht are accesible to you, and forget about coins one too LONG LONG LONG !
Not gonan say i want it al lat once ,i've done everything the hard way.
But it is far from player friendly, or it will not keep annyone playing past lvl 40, in delusion u get beggers daily now.
And the problem isnt only situated at lower levels tho, zonce like giants cave , Den of evil and more , drop such ridicilous ammounts of monney u would thing they left the ammounts from lowbie levels on those spots.
Its been said so manny times, adena dops too small ammounts and mats are inadequate to the level of mobs they drop from, metalik fibers and suede are not lvl 80 + materials , please up the stakes a bit.
It's been asked demanded cryed and yelled for.
Listen for once NC soft Korea !
The materials and Adena drops are designed to keep you paying monthly for as long as possible. Otherwise you would be in and out of the game in only a few weeks.
The current rates keep us paying on at least a couple of accounts for months, in some cases years for the same game. Look at the console market for example. You pay $60 to play a new game for a week or more that took months to produce and distribute. We keep giving NC Soft our money over and over for a game over seven years old. The reality is they are fully aware and know what they are doing.
yup, what he said. If u play this game more then a year u should realize that developers are not stupid, and it is all designed that way so THEY can make money. Once u accept this fact u will feel much better and less frustrated, like in real life, there are things u cant change. Just make adena the best way YOU know and tell yourself: Hey, im doing the best I can. And I tell you a little secret, making adena is what really keeps ppl in this game.
I know a friend who was lvling his main char, but as soon as he couldnt afford proper gear he would create a new char and start again with the items his got.
He never got far.
Its been said so manny times, adena dops too small ammounts and mats are inadequate to the level of mobs they drop from, metalik fibers and suede are not lvl 80 + materials , please up the stakes a bit.
I agree with your last statement. However, here are a few notes regarding the rest of them.
1. Nowadays you can level a character solo to 76+ without any problems, it will cost you nothing. Common C/B gear is cheap (to start with), and later on you get tons of common A grade items as drops from 60+ mobs. With just newbie buffs, you can xp well and farm some adena in the meantime (at least, it should be enough to cover your shots cost).
By the way, when I leveled my warsmith to 70, he was equipped with common AoBA, common robes (yes, I mean ROBES :p), and it worked fine (got tons of stuff due to repeatable quests).
2. At higher levels, you can find certain locations where mobs drop more adena or have a higher chance of dropping something valuable (e.g., attribute stones).
If you know what you're doing, you can make around 3 mil per hour.
Note I am talking about a self-buffed player with mediocre gear; of course, someone with proper buffs, playing in a proper place with a perfect group, should be able to earn times more.
I knew people here wouldn't get this. I hope the people who work at NCSoft do.
You are getting 450% XP FOR THE SAME MOB that drops the SAME AMOUNT of adena. Your XP is growing EXPONENTIALLY faster, and you will hit the next gear requirement 450% sooner if you only play 1 hour a day. That makes playing this game for a new toon MUCH MUCH harder than Prelude.
Please read the above slowly several times.
Further, this has degenerated to my own gear... I can obviously gear my toons, doh. I'm talking about people who just started the game.
That makes playing this game for a new toon MUCH MUCH harder than Prelude.
Sorry but I would have to say No it is so much easier now a days....to lvl...to make adena...to do anything than it was back in Prelude. So much easier it's not even funny.
Increase monster adena/gear drops to compensate for the 450% XP increases that you gave us!!
if they do this the adena value will drop and the items prices will rise , so you will be in some situation , you are making 4x more adena but the items price is 4x higher
I knew people here wouldn't get this. I hope the people who work at NCSoft do.
You are getting 450% XP FOR THE SAME MOB that drops the SAME AMOUNT of adena. Your XP is growing EXPONENTIALLY faster, and you will hit the next gear requirement 450% sooner if you only play 1 hour a day. That makes playing this game for a new toon MUCH MUCH harder than Prelude.
Please read the above slowly several times.
Further, this has degenerated to my own gear... I can obviously gear my toons, doh. I'm talking about people who just started the game.
This is hard to understand?
There has never been this much graded gear in the NPC stores. So I agree with Ttaz, it has never been this easy.
Why do ppl not want to make money making alts anymore? Are they really in such a rush to get to 85? After they are finally able to get to 80 and gear themselves, they come back and cry about nevit blessing being 5mil, when it is totally optional.
But I guess we could try to change the game to reward stupid behavior.
Just a word to the absolute idiots that say "working as intended" to keep you subbing to the game. 2 SERVERS people! just 2 servers left.....Is that your idea of keeping people subbed to a game to get their gears? Cmon Draco van Drachanstein.... u call that brilliant marketing when no one is playing in North America? That is why people left because legit, working class folks, not bots or people on disability, could not get competitive.
Now, and with GoD on the way their will be more choice and easier gear to obtain; yes, no lifers will still win in the end, but working people will be able to compete more readily.
I knew people here wouldn't get this. I hope the people who work at NCSoft do.
You are getting 450% XP FOR THE SAME MOB that drops the SAME AMOUNT of adena. Your XP is growing EXPONENTIALLY faster, and you will hit the next gear requirement 450% sooner if you only play 1 hour a day. That makes playing this game for a new toon MUCH MUCH harder than Prelude.
Please read the above slowly several times.
Further, this has degenerated to my own gear... I can obviously gear my toons, doh. I'm talking about people who just started the game.
This is hard to understand?
+1 Agree,this issue alone destroyed any balance that should be between xp earned and money making from drops.
But this is not only for low players,it stands also for high ones who hurry to reach 82 for enter freya/reach 83 for skill/84 for gear and in every 6 months they see new gear with some other stat in game and they need to sell cheap their current gear(who costed them more than 6 months to make it and a fortune)and farm again untill they make the new gear.Adding new gear every 6 months/1 year with 3/attribute system takes a long long period to farm just the stones(daily drop rate of stones is 1 every 40' if you are lucky,anyone wants to calculate how many hours you need untill you make stones for armor?)this is enough to make players never be able to save money.
People saying play the market/buy-sell/do fortress ,simply say jokes.
All adena making mechanisms in game are dead including ''do the market sell/buy''(sell to whom?to npc stores?)before 3-4 years you could try your luck with oe c weapons and then sell them to any new player who ebayed and wanted a glow,you could put a shop and sell your mats to players for craft,now players want to buy your mats cheaper than npc, to sell them to npc!
if they do this the adena value will drop and the items prices will rise , so you will be in some situation , you are making 4x more adena but the items price is 4x higher
No.
We still pay same prices in npcs for teleports/buy spirit-soul ore/craft any kind of elixir/potion but we get less and less adena from game,meaning we just get adena drops and close to nothing from selling items to players.If this continues,we will find ourselfes wondering ''to teleport,or not to teleport'',if you need port 2 toons 3 times per day and back you need almost 1 million you know it?
Earning more from adena drops,will make us save some adena at least we would find npc prices affortable.
With this adjustment alone L2 wont become a game that provides what it includes in content
without bot/ebay,which are both forbidden in our servers,but noone asks from where we will
make money then and why we continue
getting updates with new gear since we cant drop/craft/buy them,maybe better stay 2 years
in same update,repeat events over and over untill we make the adena we need for next
content?Either play in korean model(which includes coin/bot/ebay),or russian model
(f2p/X2rates if pay/coin),either go back in the old Nscwest model(bot/ebay and multiple
servers so people can find an empty server to rule and farm epics),the sure thing is
By the way, when I leveled my warsmith to 70, he was equipped with common AoBA, common robes (yes, I mean ROBES :p), and it worked fine (got tons of stuff due to repeatable quests).
Honestly, what birth defect do you suffer from?
1) Common gear sucks and slows kill speed, forcing you to use more shots (and hp pots if not in an herb zone).
2) If you're going to be so gimp as to use common, then why not at least spend a few adena to get a hvy version?
The thing I hate the most is that some of the lower grade items like B and A grd are more expensive than the s grd and s80... And it really frustrates me, because I dont really care about leveling my main char to 85. I'm never going to achieve that goal, and I want to dress up my other chars as well, but those lower items are so rare its unbelievable.
So I'm going to stick with what I think killed the game, and that is adding new features to end game players while forgetting lower ones.
For me, most of the fun comes with lower level players...
L2 had always had separate grinds for adena and for xp, if you just do the xp grind ofc your going to be broke
thats the problem, you see.
in OP's defence good gear USED to be really expensive. i remember when A grade did not exist.
once people started selling it, we paid hundreds of millions of adena on A grade. it was a lot harder back then to get the levels, so the challenge was put forward to level in lower tier gear but start selling drops at inflated prices, hoping the farmers would buy and craft. this began the two-tiered grind system.
this began the MASSIVE low-game botting surge seen in C2-C4. after the players who got their gear needed new gear it was money in the bank. the bots were in place and the resale was still high, because dieing meant losing gear.
once new areas game around, and new sets opened, the cycle grew. it grew too unwieldy however, as devs started coding crafts with literally hundreds of thousands of required mats. at this point we started seeing raid bosses drop worthwile gear - vesper being 84 from an 85 boss.
i maintain this game is not "finished".
little things like having more than 1 s80 armor set while there are 2 S and 3 S84 sets - or even bridgeing the gap between a 5 part quest for recs for S gear vs a 3 part quest for either type (H/L/R) of dynasty. or making items drop that people who are under 76 can farm and sell for noticeable cash. theres nobody to sell C grade to anymore, people dont buy that stuff because those levels fly by too fast.
This is the death of L2 if we get no NEW PLAYERS, because by sheer attrition, old players are going to:
1. Get bored and move on
2. Find another game to play
3. 'Win' the game, get tired of grinding, pvping, same ol'
4. Get banned
5. Get married, have kids, find a job, go to school, become parapalegic from a drunk driver, go blind from GF sticking screwdriver through eye for looking at other women, use your imagination.
5. DIE
NEW PLAYERS is what keeps games going.
NEW PLAYERS at level 40 cannot farm Mastery codex, stones, or KE. Their ONLY source of income to buy gear, shots, spirit ore, pet food, bones, escape scrolls, death penalty scrolls, heal pots, maestro keys, WHATEVER, is from killing mobs.
NOW, the mobs drop X adena. BEFORE you had Vit and Blessings, you had to kill 450% MORE MOBS to level. Now you are able to level 4.5x FASTER. WITHOUT GETTING 1 ADENA MORE for leveling faster.
YOU CANNOT choose to level SLOWER, because the LESS you play, the MORE vit you have and your blessing does not kick IN til you KILL something.
Only a stupid person would choose to level slower than the game allows, but you GET NO MORE ADENA for leveling faster.
We are talking about people who START PLAYING L2. The REASON we are down to 2 servers is because new people hit that wall and QUIT.
SO WHAT you can buy gear at the store now... you CANNOT afford it anymore, where in Prelude, we COULD afford it because we had to kill 4.5X more mobs for adena.
I am talking about people who know NO ONE, start a NEW ACCOUNT, and do NOT buy Adena. They cannot continue playing this game beyond my guestimated level 52. I can do the entire math, but so can NCSoft. PLEASE look into this.
This is the death of L2 if we get no NEW PLAYERS, because by sheer attrition, old players are going to:
1. Get bored and move on
2. Find another game to play
3. 'Win' the game, get tired of grinding, pvping, same ol'
4. Get banned
5. Get married, have kids, find a job, go to school, become parapalegic from a drunk driver, go blind from GF sticking screwdriver through eye for looking at other women, use your imagination.
5. DIE
NEW PLAYERS is what keeps games going.
NEW PLAYERS at level 40 cannot farm Mastery codex, stones, or KE. Their ONLY source of income to buy gear, shots, spirit ore, pet food, bones, escape scrolls, death penalty scrolls, heal pots, maestro keys, WHATEVER, is from killing mobs.
NOW, the mobs drop X adena. BEFORE you had Vit and Blessings, you had to kill 450% MORE MOBS to level. Now you are able to level 4.5x FASTER. WITHOUT GETTING 1 ADENA MORE for leveling faster.
YOU CANNOT choose to level SLOWER, because the LESS you play, the MORE vit you have and your blessing does not kick IN til you KILL something.
Only a stupid person would choose to level slower than the game allows, but you GET NO MORE ADENA for leveling faster.
We are talking about people who START PLAYING L2. The REASON we are down to 2 servers is because new people hit that wall and QUIT.
SO WHAT you can buy gear at the store now... you CANNOT afford it anymore, where in Prelude, we COULD afford it because we had to kill 4.5X more mobs for adena.
I am talking about people who know NO ONE, start a NEW ACCOUNT, and do NOT buy Adena. They cannot continue playing this game beyond my guestimated level 52. I can do the entire math, but so can NCSoft. PLEASE look into this.
I originally started playing around C1 and had an extremely hard time gaining mats + adena, especially with the equip drop on death (lost falchion AND brig armor). I stopped playing after a month or two and didn't start back up until March this year. An absence that long essentially makes me a new player. I have a 47 PR and a 47 BH now, both of which have absolutely no trouble finding good places to gain XP quickly as well as adena. Did I mention I only use common gear? Top common C with 2 weapons is only about 750-800k... easily obtainable with quests and the right level spots. Hell, you get ALL of the cost in the class change quests alone... Why would I bother spending the money on non-common gear at d,c,b when those levels fly by so fast anyway, even at 0 vit? Oh yeah... shadow weapons too... which are free if you didn't realize...
It isn't NCSoft's fault you refuse to step foot in Giran whre my BH made 1m in <10 minutes by buying and selling B shots. How about the Little Wing quest at lv35 that is laughably easy and profits 5m from the dragonflute? Or Cruma Tower with 2x mobs that drop 3-5x the adena as similar level 1x mobs? How about selling AA? How about using a pole to DRASTICALLY cut down on shot costs?
It also isn't NCSoft's fault you refuse to let vit drop below lvl 4. My vit is usually somewhere in between lvl 2 and 3 because I'm not worried about leveling as fast as possible. I want to enjoy the game and not rush through it missing most of the fun.I want to be able to have the best gear, so I take the time to buy pet brez in dion for 50k and sell them in giran for 75k.
Between my chars I made over 10m this weekend and that's before selling event letters. I also don't sell mats because I need to farm for crafting a drac bow for my archer.
The game isn't broken just because you're afraid some people will be too stupid to explore the game and do simple math comparing equip/shot/consumable cost vs adena earned.
I originally started playing around C1 and had an extremely hard time gaining mats + adena, especially with the equip drop on death (lost falchion AND brig armor). I stopped playing after a month or two and didn't start back up until March this year. An absence that long essentially makes me a new player. I have a 47 PR and a 47 BH now, both of which have absolutely no trouble finding good places to gain XP quickly as well as adena. Did I mention I only use common gear? Top common C with 2 weapons is only about 750-800k... easily obtainable with quests and the right level spots. Hell, you get ALL of the cost in the class change quests alone... Why would I bother spending the money on non-common gear at d,c,b when those levels fly by so fast anyway, even at 0 vit? Oh yeah... shadow weapons too... which are free if you didn't realize...
It isn't NCSoft's fault you refuse to step foot in Giran whre my BH made 1m in <10 minutes by buying and selling B shots. How about the Little Wing quest at lv35 that is laughably easy and profits 5m from the dragonflute? Or Cruma Tower with 2x mobs that drop 3-5x the adena as similar level 1x mobs? How about selling AA? How about using a pole to DRASTICALLY cut down on shot costs?
It also isn't NCSoft's fault you refuse to let vit drop below lvl 4. My vit is usually somewhere in between lvl 2 and 3 because I'm not worried about leveling as fast as possible. I want to enjoy the game and not rush through it missing most of the fun.I want to be able to have the best gear, so I take the time to buy pet brez in dion for 50k and sell them in giran for 75k.
Between my chars I made over 10m this weekend and that's before selling event letters. I also don't sell mats because I need to farm for crafting a drac bow for my archer.
The game isn't broken just because you're afraid some people will be too stupid to explore the game and do simple math comparing equip/shot/consumable cost vs adena earned.
Did I miss anything?
The fact IS, there are 2 servers now instead of 6. Why is that, how do we fix it? WHY would someone BRAND NEW to Lineage2 want to play this game?
The fact that you all know what Masteries ARE, stones ARE, KE ARE, what they are FOR... that's luxury that you knew where to look for that now hard to find info, and how to put that together for money making. The fact is, the MAJORITY of people posting on this forum have played this game for YEARS, and have access to OLD info that is no longer possible for the newest players to even FIND. Yet without new players, this game will DIE. Which of you really wants to turn out the lights?
Most of you have spent time either bragging, or carping, about how there's PLENTY of money to go around... and you look down the forum and there's a TON of whining about how the game economy is screwed. The correlation hits no one here?
The reason I care, and think you should too, is because if I want to take another 'break' at any point, that all that I have worked for in this game will be worth coming back to. That it is still a viable game with players. The only way that will happen is if we bring in new people. I put a lot of effort into this game, we all have. And that includes all employees of NCSoft.
Korea knew what they were doing when they gave us all these XP bonuses.... they wanted to sell their in game buy-for cash-items. We don't have that. We also don't have Korea's obsessions and promotions and advertising for L2. They are a multi million dollar company over there... and while everyone in the US has heard of WOW, no one has heard of L2 beyond a few gamer fanatics; NCSoft is scraping by in the US.
We have a game that new players cannot play because of a fundamental flaw that was added and not compensated for in our market (but was compensated for in Korea's market... pay to play, buy what you need directly in cash).
1) Common gear sucks and slows kill speed, forcing you to use more shots (and hp pots if not in an herb zone).
2) If you're going to be so gimp as to use common, then why not at least spend a few adena to get a hvy version?
Some of you noobs should be prohibited from dispensing advise on these boards, kinda like the guy that brags about spending the last five years of his life in the catacombs, and never leveling past 78.
have you ever seen new character which can buy full sets just from the start? he explained the situation when you use what you have and that it works just fine.
If all you are doing is xping then common everything is just fine. You dont need the best of everything at every lvl grade. You still have to manage your adena and play both games (xp/market). By the time you get to S grade the price has plummited enough to get what you need. Not everyone needs to xp on red/yellow mobs and spam shots. People have gotten spoiled compaired to what it use to be like. I know I use to complain about the market all the time until I decided I didnt need the best of everything. Not until I catch up anyways.
There is no really issue with money till you get S grade now.
no grade and d grade -> top common gear more then enough
c grade -> for any fighter pl set + top common gear more then enough
a grade -> luxury gear or top common gear more then enough
even if you do not do any effort in make money at lv 75 you will be already noblesse and will start to get the masteries from tw will take a long but only doing this you can buy S grade gear that you can use till you are lvl 85.
So? what's the problem here? You want better gear? sorry but you need to put more time in gameplay.
An A grade set is like...20m. Don't think I've ever seen an S/S80 set that cheap on the market before.
Its not necessarily armor sets, its the weapons. Yesterday I saw damascus +3 focus for 69kk ?
Also why do 77/78 mobs drop A grd arrows, if nobody kills those mobs with a grd bow there? And you can buy them in the shop now.. Im talking about varka for example.
Just use a +3 or even +5 Kesh Focus. More crit rate and cheaper.
I used +3 B Blunt on my WC till he was like lvl 70.
U cant get top Armors/Weapons w/o work.
Just use a +3 or even +5 Kesh Focus. More crit rate and cheaper.
I used +3 B Blunt on my WC till he was like lvl 70.
U cant get top Armors/Weapons w/o work.
Okay, but dont you think after 7 yeaars, okay maybe not 7, lets say after 5 years the top b grd items are so rare that the new items, which were intruduced last year are much more common.
THis is not they way it should be, for me anyway.
There is a point in leveling x4.5 time faster with same items dropped but
1) Even if playing only one hour per day, after 65 you cannot sustain full vit.
2) At easy 65+ areas there is a lot of common a-grade drops.
3) The x4.5 faster leveling make the need for better equipment less noticeable. You can get some levels at 61+ with your b-grade
4) Common items at NPC is a major help
5) At lower levels Shadow items are ideal for the 1hr/day player
6) Selling mats to grocery makes extra adena, atm crafting below s80 is pointless, it will cost you more, sell your mats to NPC untill level 76, then you reconsider if you want to craft or not. You will be able to buy mats at the same price grocery pays for them, if not less. See private shops at Giran, lots of ppl mke money by buying items for less than groccery.
7) Craft your shots either yourself (a level 62 dwarf can craft up to level 8 items including s-grade shots) or at private craft shops.
8) Sell event items to rich ppl hoping for a elusive item, most of the times you get better rewards that you would get by actually using them specially if you don't have tons of them. The adena income is guaranteed, lots of ppl will pay more than the statistically "justified" price of an event item.
So yes, there is a point of leveling to fast but that mainly applies to higher level toons that
a) get 20% more xp / 78+ mob
b) got xp needed for next level almost slashed in half
c) got the epic quest twice (70% of level 79)
d) got double xp weekends / weeks and revita pops and christmas cakes and vit maintenance pots
For ppl starting now the xp from 0->65 maybe 4 times faster (4 times less drops) _but_ absolutely essential stuff is at least 4 times cheaper and very cheap common items + free buffs until 75 make hunting easier in "higher" areas than previously available to average toon (so more drops in comparison with toon level)
Okay, but dont you think after 7 yeaars, okay maybe not 7, lets say after 5 years the top b grd items are so rare that the new items, which were intruduced last year are much more common.
THis is not they way it should be, for me anyway.
Have to agree, but S80++ is that cheap since a lot of ppl are in that range now. Back as B Grade was lvl cap u got B stuff from RB dropped.
Still low B or even OE Top C is the way to go for new players. Not needed that every1 runs around in TOP stuff after a few days.
Have to agree, but S80++ is that cheap since a lot of ppl are in that range now. Back as B Grade was lvl cap u got B stuff from RB dropped.
Still low B or even OE Top C is the way to go for new players. Not needed that every1 runs around in TOP stuff after a few days.
Ye thats what I mean, lower grd items look wicked, not that same looking dynasty, moirai, vesper ****.
The funny part about this post is that this is what people have been asking for. We want to level faster, we want to play end game, we want... we want... we want... well now they got and you can reach end game levels with the crapiest gear posible, ive seen people with lvl 80+ karmian wearing boxes and a homu acumen.
In case you havent noticed every new patch is centered and focused around current players, not attracting new players, all the lowbie areas are slowly dissapearing, i think even some starter towns in the next patch.
Also if people chose not to level slower to get better gear why should Ncsoft compensate for peoples choices.
The reason a lot of people quit and the number of servers is down to 2 is not because people hit a xp or gear wall, is Ncsoft complete lack of care factor about Lineage 2 and its game community, something which they try to compensate now to some sort of extent.
If adena drops for lowbie areas for new players increase you will only see low level bot trains benefiting from this while those same low level players you are trying to help get pked by level 85 toons who own those trains, resulting in them quiting the game even faster.
I can see your point about not getting new players and the game dying without new players, imo, enjoy the game while you can, if not send a curriculum and try to get a job in NCsoft see if you can change anything. Not sure what posting on the forums will acomplish, is not like we can do anything about it, that is for NCsoft to decide.
The funny part about this post is that this is what people have been asking for. We want to level faster, we want to play end game, we want... we want... we want... well now they got and you can reach end game levels with the crapiest gear posible, ive seen people with lvl 80+ karmian wearing boxes and a homu acumen.
In case you havent noticed every new patch is centered and focused around current players, not attracting new players, all the lowbie areas are slowly dissapearing, i think even some starter towns in the next patch.
Also if people chose not to level slower to get better gear why should Ncsoft compensate for peoples choices.
The reason a lot of people quit and the number of servers is down to 2 is not because people hit a xp or gear wall, is Ncsoft complete lack of care factor about Lineage 2 and its game community, something which they try to compensate now to some sort of extent.
If adena drops for lowbie areas for new players increase you will only see low level bot trains benefiting from this while those same low level players you are trying to help get pked by level 85 toons who own those trains, resulting in them quiting the game even faster.
I can see your point about not getting new players and the game dying without new players, imo, enjoy the game while you can, if not send a curriculum and try to get a job in NCsoft see if you can change anything. Not sure what posting on the forums will acomplish, is not like we can do anything about it, that is for NCsoft to decide.
You are right about the fact that the game is geared to higher end players, and actually, it's a lot of fun for higher end players. I mowed through 1-40 in less than a week, without the double xp weekend... on THREE toons. I don't compare this experience with real lowbies, who can't give their toons top level D,C,B gear w/ +10 weapons.
But doing that made it dawn on me... that if I did not spend one cent on weapon and armor, which I didn't, using only newbie buffer buffs, buying my shots/soe/dps/etc at the store... I was barely breaking even. I do not have enough cash on any of them to buy gear if I weren't already geared. The Shadow Weapons help, but will not last to the gear next grade.
It also occurred to me that there was a HUGE expensive removed from the early chronicles that we had to pay... Gate fees. In the early days, we had to run from town to town without porting, at 126 speed. So yes, some things have gotten cheaper.
However, 1 D blessed spirit shot still costs 37 adena, and all D weapons use 3 at a time. 1 D soul shot costs 18 adena and all D weapons use 3 at a time. This is true at C also, which is 56/29 respectively. No monster at these levels drop the adena to cover the cost of the soul shots to kill them. As a much higher leveled player, I could send my alts any shortfall adena. New players can't.
Can they kill without shots? Of course, we all did back in the beginning of chronicles. Actually, when our CL passed out shots to speed up raids, more than 1/2 the clan hoarded them in the warehouse as a precious commodity.
Not using shots slows down killing... but now combine killing mobs with a shadow weapon using no soul shots, and you are getting 4.5x the xp PER KILL, shot money alone doesn't help you afford a weapon or armor.
I see your points regarding farming with bot trains. The optimal solution would be to tie adena drops to the bonus rate. If you are getting 4.5x the xp/sp, you get 4.5x the drops. If you are getting 1x the xp, you get 1x the drop. That brings every player up to parity with the adena, and bot trains that are on for hours get no benefit. It further adds incentive to maintain vit bonuses and blessing, and encourages people to play L2 at every level (thereby increasing need for lower leveled gears and economic stimulation), but offers bot trains no incentive due to time.
This has little to no impact on the higher leveled population, gearing alts is the least of our worries. For any S80, D, C, B gear is dirt cheap, and from an hour to a couple days' shot/spiritore money from main to fully gear one. But it's another world for new players, and that's what I'm talking about.
NCSoft needs to look at it this simple math problem. 450% xp combined with 100% adena will not allow much success at this game for a brand new player without a clue, once they power up to the 50s in levels. I'd wager that the levels that most newbies quit L2 is between 55-70. Those who power past this are successful determined players, but I think those levels may be the sticker for new players, where the gear imbalance/adena shortage are the most painful.
With 450% more exp per kill and newbie buffs you exp fast enough you don’t need the shots.
Most (but not all) DD's will get enough HP back from VR even without shots.
A pet is a lot cheaper to run then shots and adds similar advantage, choose the best pet for your class. Pets are also an investment unlike the drain of shots.
Talismans offer a large duration bonus for a relatively low cost.
Try and maximise the use of your weapon exchange coupons. Use up all your D grade before starting on your C grade. It is very possible to kill 40+ mops with D grade.
If you are grinding a particular area see if there are any quests that reward you for the mops you are killing.
Common equipment is not as bad as it sounds. There is little reason to opt for non-common jewellery, at D grade a lot of sets only need three items to make a set, get the rest in common.
With my 81 FS I am able to farm green mops on herbs, talismans and a level 55 buffalo alone. XP is slow thou ^^ But it returns about 1m per hour + drops and spoils.
Kick the addiction at least at lower levels and you pocket will be much happier.
In reguards to gear. New players make more than enough adena grinding to cover Common gear and shots. And yes common gear is just fine to level with through A grade if you are PvE only. There are guide both here in the forums and on fan websites. A willing person will seek out info to better themselves (this applies to ingame and in life).
In reguards to people not wanting a new player that isn't fully stocked in party. Well that's stupid on the part of people complaing there is less players. When I see a newbie, it's like a radar goes off in my head and I want to suddenly follow them help guide them (if they let me ><). Best way to get more people to play is the make them feel welcome in the game.
As far as adena drops, I think the fact that is disappears after 10 minutes if it's not picked doesn't help the economy. Mats and other drops i don't care so much for (though i should). But I really miss adena fields left by lazy players or players that just didn't need it. An adena field of 100k helped me buy my NG gear back when I started. I know if I had nothing better to do I'd probably dance around SV or some other non-agro area and pick up items left unclaimed after X amount of time. That being said, I do feel that the drop rate hasn't been adjusted with XP rate. A drop rate increase of 3x-6x would be too high IMO because not everyone is always at 4 vit with 50% bonus. Maybe 2x or 1.5x could be a good median.
With 450% more exp per kill and newbie buffs you exp fast enough you don’t need the shots.
Most (but not all) DD's will get enough HP back from VR even without shots.
A pet is a lot cheaper to run then shots and adds similar advantage, choose the best pet for your class. Pets are also an investment unlike the drain of shots.
Talismans offer a large duration bonus for a relatively low cost.
Try and maximise the use of your weapon exchange coupons. Use up all your D grade before starting on your C grade. It is very possible to kill 40+ mops with D grade.
If you are grinding a particular area see if there are any quests that reward you for the mops you are killing.
Common equipment is not as bad as it sounds. There is little reason to opt for non-common jewellery, at D grade a lot of sets only need three items to make a set, get the rest in common.
With my 81 FS I am able to farm green mops on herbs, talismans and a level 55 buffalo alone. XP is slow thou ^^ But it returns about 1m per hour + drops and spoils.
Kick the addiction at least at lower levels and you pocket will be much happier.
I'm glad you mentioned the pet. All my low levels are done with pets, it's an opportunity to level up pets. That said, a day's hunting with said pet costs between 500K to well over a million adena in FOOD. Their feed costs more than shots! LOL! That said, shots were sent to all my alts from main, except D shots. My D grade alt has 500K left (WITHOUT paying for shots/gear, just buying baby spice/DPS/SOE).
That doesn't count the cost of the 50 Pet Brezzes I sent each alts that doesn't weigh on their adena drop costs.
So with free shots, free gear, free Pet resses, and at B grade free pet food, selling all my drops to store, I'm at under 2 mil net adena in B grade, under 500K in D grade savings. Not enough to buy 1 piece of B/D grade armor, let alone weapon.
Sure, anyone can use common A gear at A grade w/ no shots and no pet to feed. But how do they save for S grade gear? There are no S grade common, and there is no buying S grade in shops.
If a toon knew enough to save every single penny they farmed from levels 1-75 (and how would a newbie know that), they would not earn enough adena to buy 1 single piece of S grade armor from killing mobs let alone a weapon. This crunch begins at B grade.
Or am I mistaken? From just playing the game, how many people managed to get S grade gear with their own efforts alone (no ebaying, no clan help, no borrowing gear, no quit buddy gimmes).
i think i mentioned this in another thread but theres a lot more drops in this game than just adena.
materials sell rather well nowadays, as does Ancient adena, and any particularly useless item drops (such as spellbooks, bad common items, keymats, recipes, etc) are cash in hand from the NPCs.
theres also questing that can be done; mainly i am thinking the frozen lab quest which when properly done will reward with several hundred steel. thats a good pile of adena.
primarily however adena is not earned as a solo character. you make adena as a clan; doing raids selling drops, doin tw or forts, selling rewards.
i think i mentioned this in another thread but theres a lot more drops in this game than just adena.
materials sell rather well nowadays, as does Ancient adena, and any particularly useless item drops (such as spellbooks, bad common items, keymats, recipes, etc) are cash in hand from the NPCs.
theres also questing that can be done; mainly i am thinking the frozen lab quest which when properly done will reward with several hundred steel. thats a good pile of adena.
primarily however adena is not earned as a solo character. you make adena as a clan; doing raids selling drops, doin tw or forts, selling rewards.
people get richer faster when pooling together.
imo, AA is what works best at lower levels to make money.. you can enter catas after doing the 1st class transfer (lvl 20)... you can make enough for shots and such... obvioulsy this works fine for DDs and not so easy for mage types, but you can still do it if using summons and such...
I started playing the game (again), recently. My char was naked, I started a warcryer, and in +/- 3 days I got to 47.
Without the event i would be broke and would be able to aford my precious Inferno Staff + Acumen + 3, a friend got me a Karmian set and I almost cryed :D
Adena is too hard on us n00bs, joining a clan helped a lot cause of good players trying to make the n00b fell welcome but adena comes slow and goes fast. Its pretty hard, quests are a joke. Killed a ton of mobs for a SOE...a SOE !!!!!!!! what a lol.
Still the game is great, but hard, designed to keep you here forever and ever.
Not to mention that lower level parties are a luxury nowadays.
I agree the commons can get you far, but a common weapon....oh cmon, a no-SA weapon is just....plain ****.
Good luck to all the n00bs like me :) may the adena rain on you.
First off, it's easier ot make adena now than in was back when game was new, alot easier.
Also alot of people are missing the point in L2. You were never supposed to be able to get the gear for your grade right away. Look at the older mobs, top a ats drop from lvl 78-80 mobs. Most mats are like that. L2 was not designed for people to hit a new grade of gear and jump into it. Also, you can skip grades pretty easy n ow anyway to save money...
First off, it's easier ot make adena now than in was back when game was new, alot easier.
Also alot of people are missing the point in L2. You were never supposed to be able to get the gear for your grade right away. Look at the older mobs, top a ats drop from lvl 78-80 mobs. Most mats are like that. L2 was not designed for people to hit a new grade of gear and jump into it. Also, you can skip grades pretty easy n ow anyway to save money...
i'll agree that some grades can be bypassed entirely
however some grades last a lot longer than others.
to get to 79 you can effectively skip B and most of the A grade. however skipping S or S80 isnt really an option. S grade when elemented provides FAR superior item re-useablity.
for instance a weapon with 150 element can be used about 4 levels more than the same weapon with no element. at 85 a dyn weapon clean isnt going to cut through the mobs let alone the players.
a wise investment is a set of elemented dynasty which can let you bypass moirai and icarus (unless you are playing Olympiad and need the resist). however it comes with a drawback, its still too much to make 250ish million for the dyn wep+armor set when a week of TW and AOE hunting nets about 20m in drops and tw rewards.
also a lot of this gear is just making circles; selling to players who use and sell again to players.
People who say its easy to make money now a days say this because they have been through the gambit of the game and have resolved the financial difficulties of end game gearing.
by that i mean you know where the money can be made. a new player ALWAYS comes to the boards and asks "what do i do with this Brandish blade". we see it a lot.
these are the people that don't know why you shouldnt craft D or C gear. these are the people that dont know why S gear is so special and costs so much.
I started playing the game (again), recently. My char was naked, I started a warcryer, and in +/- 3 days I got to 47.
Without the event i would be broke and would be able to aford my precious Inferno Staff + Acumen + 3, a friend got me a Karmian set and I almost cryed :D
Adena is too hard on us n00bs, joining a clan helped a lot cause of good players trying to make the n00b fell welcome but adena comes slow and goes fast. Its pretty hard, quests are a joke. Killed a ton of mobs for a SOE...a SOE !!!!!!!! what a lol.
Still the game is great, but hard, designed to keep you here forever and ever.
Not to mention that lower level parties are a luxury nowadays.
I agree the commons can get you far, but a common weapon....oh cmon, a no-SA weapon is just....plain ****.
Good luck to all the n00bs like me :) may the adena rain on you.
Wait til you hit S grade... do post here when you decide to quit and why please.
I´m not saying in any way that the game is easy, I try not to think to much about the future :P Adena is a huge problem.
My apologies Kazou, that was a little snide and I didn't mean it that way. I honestly believe that 100% of the problem in L2 is the impossibility of getting average gear in the game without help from others, and sets people up to cheat or fail, due to the adena situation.
And the below is not to you, just a rant from months of playing to excess.
This is a beautiful game... I try to find reasons to keep loving it. But more and more, I see that it is not designed for North American players as a whole. The differences are vast, beginning with our general unwillingness to cooperate in large groups... we prefer to kill each other. It took an entire Korean server to take down a dragon, they set aside their differences. Assuming someone could organize it OUTSIDE of the players, more than 1/2 the players on Chronos would be dead before the raid began, and 1/10 of them would have cherry red tags. OOPS! (My bad! Who knew you were such a scrub! ^,^)
The other problem is patience. Not many players want to spend hours a day playing merchant. I would say that the only successful players in L2 are the salesmen, not the best soldiers or the most strategic thinkers. In no game that I have ever played has it been impossible to play normally without becoming a used car salesman. I admit that it's a flaw in my character that I do not enjoy wheeling and dealing in town to play a combat game. Let me sell my weapon and I'll go pvp with you! Wait, I can't come xp til I sell this thing...
That's just... wrong.
I fully appreciate that those who already are gear to the teeth, saved billions over years of playing, and know all the ins and outs of the game, do not ever want to see anyone new approach their wealth, not without playing for the same number of years they did (which doh, can't happen?).
So what's the problem? Aside from the very obvious one that by playing L2 today, instead of seeing the best in people, we often see the worst, it's still a beautiful game with possibilities of turning around.
But the very fact that the ONLY way some players have of getting gear is GM events, something is WRONG. And the solution to me seems darn obvious. It would CRIPPLE the RMT market, people would not NEED it, and it would end the desperate greed that turns the best of us into people we don't ourselves like. Fix the attrition, INCREASE ADENA DROPS so people are not forced to become beggars, borrowers, cheats and thieves to play a beautiful game.
That said, lately, I've been 'opting out' of the hamster wheel by just playing alt lowbies. I'm enjoying the hell out of it, mostly because I don't have to buy gear!! I can use SHOTS! I can afford to PORT! I can feed a PET!! WHEEE!!!! This is the most fun I've had in L2 EVER.
That I felt guilty having fun in this game at all made me realize what was wrong with it.
And what's wrong with it is, it's all about the lack of money to buy gear without being a salesman. Why does the game force you to be one to play? I also hate owing people money. And that's all the game is about right now. I'm not talking about boss jewels for all, I'm talking about being able to AFFORD the store gear when you hit those levels. AFFORD the cheapest stuff sold in Giran for your grade from hunting. Not by sitting in town with a store for hours or days before you can play again, or having to keep one eye on Giran shouts on your sell toon, while you play on your main toon.
And before all the hate starts about "find a different game, we just LOVE that we have bazillions in inventory and no one else does", do this, do that, do the other (unrealistic and irrelevant) thing to make money, I am not poor in game. It's NOT about me.
I want this game to succeed in our market, and the paradigm doesn't work as it is now. It's a SMALL correction... fix the drops on ALL monsters. It wouldn't bring back bots because NO ONE would need to BUY adena anymore!! Would more people 'cheat'? Why? They would have less reason to cheat than ever because they can AFFORD their basic gear to play.
If the drops were sufficient to cover NECESSITIES, then people will be more willing to work and cooperate for LUXURIES. Why should only salesmen get all the gear, then brag about their mad 'skills'? That's what this game is about right now. As for all the absurd advice to wear A grade common to hunt... TRY IT. Good luck getting a group with all common gear, or refusing to use shots. You can do it with your friends, but no one else will party you.
You can stick the worst driver on the planet in a Ferarri and the best driver in a 10 year old Honda Accord, and it's a no brainer who's going to win a 1 mile race (Hint: the engine with more HP, um, assuming the Accord driver isn't allowed to force the Ferrari to wreck).
THAT is what being uber in this game MEANS today. Nothing. As it is, competition is meaningless, and people who want to play for competition eventually realize this. You compete with the best salesmen, and when you actually are competitive, is that the caliber gamer you want to be? I'm playing alts now. I don't want to be the best used car salesman, it crushes my sense of self worth.
People who play for cooperation can't find much because everyone else is SCROUNGING for gear, and even the best most cooperative clans see the horrible effects of individual greed (like... DARKNESS REBORN getting their clan stuff stolen?).
The solution is obvious. Increase the drop rates in line with the current XP/SP increases at the least. I would double that after thinking about it, but I know that's not going to happen.
Or better yet, leave the PTS open all year round, and don't delete people's toons. Bet 1/2 the server would live there and not on their own servers, I would. GM shops for all gears/stones/enchants, all pvp on equal terms. Hero there would MEAN something.
I only can say without a Clan or a few char rerollings to make some adena its close to impossible.
A friend and me made a new Clan like 1 year ago. Soon the first 2x XP weekend came and brought in the following days many new ppls to L2.
We took all the new players to help em and get some kind of the "newbie feeling" together with em. We had around 40 members which supported with D gear and later did 4x Raids with em to gave them the drops etc.
They lvled up with a rly decent speed -> BAEM A Grade or close to S Grade and most stopped since no way to get hands on S Armor or even S Weapon (not even one w/o ele and only a few could manage to get Wep+SA).
Guess what happened: 1 year later only 4 of em still playing main, some rerolled tons of alts and stop when they reach A Grade or S.
Around 30 stopped the game at all.
with all the help we have had leveling, there is no way in hell anyone has made enough money to gear their toons. i mean, no one made enough money to gear their toons BEFORE vit. everyone had a dwarf alt or they ebayed.
I think, you will find what you're looking for in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare. In this game everyone have equal gear and chances, and there's no need to grind for money. Only PVP all time.
As for L2, the fact that people do not cooperate enough is actually a reason why they can't do anything, not the other way. Sad thing is that so many people don't get it even after 6 years of playing this game.
Your rant about "salesmen" shows, that you actually don't have idea what it takes to obtain something valuable to sell.
Just to don't be accused of empty words: When HB opened I was lvl 78 archer in majestic armor and Drac Bow with no SA and no element. I formed a party to exp HB (most of people in same crappy gear as me). It was hard. We died a lot. But wind stones were sufficient reward and they payed for my SA, drac armor, and element. Also few people in party earned dynasty sets, which were top gear back then.
When we did all this, you was probably soloing dino island, complaining that mobs drop less adena than you spend on shots and HB is too hard.
This is a beautiful game... I try to find reasons to keep loving it. But more and more, I see that it is not designed for North American players as a whole. The differences are vast, beginning with our general unwillingness to cooperate in large groups... we prefer to kill each other.
The other problem is patience. Not many players want to spend hours a day playing merchant.
These 2 reasons you give are the reasons why you fail to obtain enough money for gear.
1. Lineage 2 is not and never was a solo game, it has always been about party play in PVE and PVP. You could achieve much more with a party and make more money or loot more gear.
2. Lineage 2 is a grinding game. You have to grind for your exp and you have to grind your money. These are 2 seperate objective which both would require patience. Even with the exp becoming easier and the prices for A grade armor sets being lowered to a manageble amount, to achieve better gear you need to grind money.
When i was lvl 78 i too was still walking around in my A grade armor. So I decided to grind KE for money and even made a seperate char for it. I spend 100s of hours grinding money to be able to get the 700kk adena which Sgrade armor and weapon would cost back then. And now you tell me you cant get 200kk for a dynasty set and S weapons? There is always a way to make money... Find it and grind it.
Besides that the way I hear people speak about needing to use weapons with SA makes me think you have no sence of keeping adena aswell. You spend all you money on that weapon with SA which will make lvling for you a BIT easier, but you will never be able to sell the weapon for the same amount of money you spend on it. When I lvled my char I used common armor till lvl 74, when I was finally able to buy a Agrade set. I still level alts with common weapons, since the fraction a SA gives you on lower levels isnt even that great.
with all the help we have had leveling, there is no way in hell anyone has made enough money to gear their toons. i mean, no one made enough money to gear their toons BEFORE vit. everyone had a dwarf alt or they ebayed.
What's wrong with having a dwarf alt?
What is the point of this topic?
- Why 50% of people trying to sound pro and talk "you can make it easy with common gear", the game concept is stupid due to cheaters that was present in past 7 years and started to be blocked recently (banning people)
- There is so much adena on rmt and so many chars and it is 1 of reasons why there is no new players, cose you can get 80 lvl char for dunno 50-60 euros and maybe gear for it another 50-60 euros so an average person that have job and works just calculates and gets a result that he would take legit way even few months to get this gear, this char and having this many options on internet he chose to buy something instead of "wasting" time doing it on it's own, cose he can buy something for 10-15 days he works for then siting 8h a day to get same but in 3 months.
- The game need a "fresh" start, new players wont join current servers. I got few friends that joined like 1 month ago and they are 70-76 lvl, but no1 can convince me that you can make gear easy or that you wont need to spend hours, and hours, and hours on street or any kind of solution to get yourself in just average gear.
- Define "Game", try to define "MMORPG" half of people don't even know any stories about Baium, Antharas, Valakas, Frintezza, normal raids, no1 even bother to read or find out the story of L2. This aint no RPG this sure is "mass multi player online game" but it suppose to be fun to play, not to be "grind half a year to be average" offc this stands for legit players.
- Only reason why for example my friends, me and few other people i know joined back to retail is to see Goddess of destruction and we hope it will bring some real fun what use to c1-c4 Chronicles give to players.
- Now the game is all about other cheaters and who got better scripts, already have decided to leave L2 (when it comes to retail) but still last hope is like i said in new Chronicle or possibly a new fresh server that wont have bots,cheats, minimum ebay (cose this can't be blocked no matter how it affects the game), no server transfer, etc...
- Now the game is all about other cheaters and who got better scripts, already have decided to leave L2 (when it comes to retail) but still last hope is like i said in new Chronicle or possibly a new fresh server that wont have bots,cheats, minimum ebay (cose this can't be blocked no matter how it affects the game), no server transfer, etc...
Unfortunately I have to agree here :/
I don't understand why GMs can't do anything about this.
Is that so hard to notice that certain players react on some others actions in less than 0.1s time? Shout on party/aly chat after some enemy use noise skill automaticly?
It really feels like you handle a server without control of it :/
Everything would be different if game was free to play and then formula: more accounts(which resulted not banning bots) = more $
Also those who say "where would NCsoft get $ to run the servers then?", well i think Russian retail is a good example how some things can and how they should be done.
Everything would be different if game was free to play and then formula: more accounts(which resulted not banning bots) = more $
Also those who say "where would NCsoft get $ to run the servers then?", well i think Russian retail is a good example how some things can and how they should be done.
RU official is probably the worst example, that game is entirely ruined by all the RMT supported by the owners. It's worse than places run by donations.
RU official is probably the worst example, that game is entirely ruined by all the RMT supported by the owners. It's worse than other places run by donations.
Yes that why they got so many servers, cose their concept how game should be is bad right? And we the "perfectionists" got downgraded to 2 servers, right?
ps.1st check what can be donated there before you start QQ
RU official is probably the worst example, that game is entirely ruined by all the RMT supported by the owners. It's worse than other places run by donations.
What's the difference betwwen RMT on Naia and on any ruoff server? NONE.
In both cases wihtout any big effort you can buy char whatever lvl you want and equip it also with any items you imagine, just need a couple of euros.
As buying adena is dangerous people now buy epics for $$$ and try to sell them for adena in game.
What's the difference betwwen RMT on Naia and on any ruoff server? NONE.
In both cases wihtout any big effort you can buy char whatever lvl you want and equip it also with any items you imagine, just need a couple of euros.
As buying adena is dangerous people now buy epics for $$$ and try to sell them for adena in game.
Well we just got problem cose this stuff are being "public secret".
Another problem L2 offical in NA/Euro over L2 offical in Korea. In Korea clans do not horde drops but sell to open market.
In NA/Euro top clans horde drops instead of selling them to the open market, some clan wh are full with vorpal armours, boss jewels, and top s84 weapons, but you rarely see any on the market. You know why because top clans rather overenchant the stuff they have and blow it up before they sell to the open market.
You know the only time top end gear finds its way to the market? When people change servers but since there are only 2 servers left in NA it doesn't happen much.
There is a big gap between mid level gear and top gear in price. Mid level gear is affordable to a point but top end gear is just overpriced out the wazoo. Take me for example im closing in on maxing out my toon (85 and 100%) and I cannot afford S84 even though I have a Billion + in liquid adena. A Vorpal light set sells for 1.3 - 1.5 billion, A veseper noble set for the same. Skull Cranium bow 1 billion without a SA or element Recurve Bow 2 billion.
Why do people need 40 - 50 + billion in adena in their inventories whats the purpose of having all that money if you already got maxed out gear? lol
L2 mimics real life where the Rich horde their wealth and money when it even passes the point of what they could ever possibly use in game and there is no point to having it anymore but just to say you have it.
Another problem L2 offical in NA/Euro over L2 offical in Korea. In Korea clans do not horde drops but sell to open market.
In NA/Euro top clans horde drops instead of selling them to the open market, some clan wh are full with vorpal armours, boss jewels, and top s84 weapons, but you rarely see any on the market. You know why because top clans rather overenchant the stuff they have and blow it up before they sell to the open market.
You know the only time top end gear finds its way to the market? When people change servers but since there are only 2 servers left in NA it doesn't happen much.
There is a big gap between mid level gear and top gear in price. Mid level gear is affordable to a point but top end gear is just overpriced out the wazoo. Take me for example im closing in on maxing out my toon (85 and 100%) and I cannot afford S84 even though I have a Billion + in liquid adena. A Vorpal light set sells for 1.3 - 1.5 billion, A veseper noble set for the same. Skull Cranium bow 1 billion without a SA or element Recurve Bow 2 billion.
Why do people need 40 - 50 + billion in adena in their inventories whats the purpose of having all that money if you already got maxed out gear? lol
L2 mimics real life where the Rich horde their wealth and money when it even passes the point of what they could ever possibly use in game and there is no point to having it anymore but just to say you have it.
If u want vorpal go raid, its already to easy to obtain , same with vesper noble wtf ... The big problem is that everything except adena is to easy to obtain now a days, thats why prices went down ( and ofc the few thousand banned bots :P ) but everyone wantet bots to be banned, now u got what u wantet
well, the strong want to dominate the server for all time. If they would sell all the high lvl equip other clans would close up over time.
for the server it would be much better of course, it would be much more interesting if a lot of clans/allys would have the chance to keep up and fight each other as equals. but that will never happen, cause they want to dominate and pwn our ***** all the time. ;-)
this would change if all grades would be buyable in shops, but then the dwarfs will cry tons of tears...
one side is **** up every time. anybody will cry for sure.
If u want vorpal go raid, its already to easy to obtain , same with vesper noble wtf ... The big problem is that everything except adena is to easy to obtain now a days, thats why prices went down ( and ofc the few thousand banned bots :P ) but everyone wantet bots to be banned, now u got what u wantetThats alot easier said than done. Of course we want the bots and RMT banned. The problem is it's too late the market and availability of items is already skewed to to one side.
Well i dont know what server u talk of, but on chronos even neutrals rock vorpal like it drops from heaven
The real problem is not to get armors or weapons, since u can even quest/do oly / raid etc etc for them, the problem is to get money for beas/ trade stones for crystals etc ( the before called money sinks :P )
Game changed and now if you are not in any kind of CommandChannel for Freya/Frint/Zaken etc... you are doomed.
Normal party with a CC killing RBs 3 evenings a week can earn more than 3b adena in items a month. Equip the party members old and rest new items sell - simple.
You dont have const party and CC - you should find one or quit. And as this is mmo game, you HAVE to have people to play with, share drops and kill RBs - PVE aspect is more and more important. RBs are 1st thing we do in L2 if we need items/money. So... get to work!!!
Or ebay epics, sell for adena and buy what you want - yes I know, illegal stuff - do it on your own risk and w8 for perma ban for RMT... rotfl
If u want vorpal go raid, its already to easy to obtain , same with vesper noble wtf ... The big problem is that everything except adena is to easy to obtain now a days, thats why prices went down ( and ofc the few thousand banned bots :P ) but everyone wantet bots to be banned, now u got what u wantet
lol Sure let me get my party together and go raid Antharas and Valakhas lol Your really not the brightest bulb in the bunch. Top end clans rarely invite outsiders to these epic raids and never give them drops so what should do I refuse to join one of their clans just to get gear and even if I join one there is no guarantee they will ever give me the gear. I know many people who are in top clans who do epics raids who do not get the gear again even in those clans its horded by clan leaders and their favorite people.
Normal raids do not drop vorpal from the ones I have done (up to level 82 our highest tank's level)
Game changed and now if you are not in any kind of CommandChannel for Freya/Frint/Zaken etc... you are doomed.
Normal party with a CC killing RBs 3 evenings a week can earn more than 3b adena in items a month. Equip the party members old and rest new items sell - simple.
You dont have const party and CC - you should find one or quit.l
That's why i'm almost quiting l2, ppl are leaving this game everyday, it's hard to find a constant/party even in big clans.
Another problem L2 offical in NA/Euro over L2 offical in Korea. In Korea clans do not horde drops but sell to open market.
In NA/Euro top clans horde drops instead of selling them to the open market, some clan wh are full with vorpal armours, boss jewels, and top s84 weapons, but you rarely see any on the market. You know why because top clans rather overenchant the stuff they have and blow it up before they sell to the open market.
You know the only time top end gear finds its way to the market? When people change servers but since there are only 2 servers left in NA it doesn't happen much.
There is a big gap between mid level gear and top gear in price. Mid level gear is affordable to a point but top end gear is just overpriced out the wazoo. Take me for example im closing in on maxing out my toon (85 and 100%) and I cannot afford S84 even though I have a Billion + in liquid adena. A Vorpal light set sells for 1.3 - 1.5 billion, A veseper noble set for the same. Skull Cranium bow 1 billion without a SA or element Recurve Bow 2 billion.
Why do people need 40 - 50 + billion in adena in their inventories whats the purpose of having all that money if you already got maxed out gear? lol
L2 mimics real life where the Rich horde their wealth and money when it even passes the point of what they could ever possibly use in game and there is no point to having it anymore but just to say you have it.
Top clans do not sell TOP gear because:
They dont need any money;
And the most important reason, if you are a clan that wants to dominate PVP, why give other clans a chance to get top gear? If they get all the top gear for themselves, even if that means getting dust on CL WH, or blowing them out. If other players don't have acess to that gear, the ones that have it, will dominate simply because they have better items.
getting stronger by not making my enemies get stronger - common sense
If top gear was on the market, the top clans would still be rocking because they would have even more money that the other small guys and they would be wasting that money on OE the TOP gear they had, while the smaller guys that wasted all their money buying the gear, would still fail because they would have top84 +0 without SA, while the top clans would still be rocking with top s84++++ 300ele with SA.
Like in real life, the ones with more wealth will allways rule, putting or not, stuff on the market.
1. If u were a bot over the past 4 -5 years u r laughing; u have everything u need and more, and continue to play L2 because u think u 'own' everyone. Gratz to u if u have come on these boards and tell working class legits how to earn adena and gear. As GoD approaches many of you will quit because you will begin to have your ***** handed to you. You will tell everyone how the game is not what it was, that it is too easy, and we should all remember how hard things were for you ( a bot, Jesus).
2. If u play 24/7 u will be in constant groups, know how and where to farm, and more than likely be in a clan that is also made up of all day/ all night players. These players have more Subs than the US Military and more Alts than Lady Gaga; these players struggle with adena at times, but get just enough from the game to keep going, including a social environment that suits them.
3. The working dudes and ladies of L2 that are being asked to come back and play L2 ( i.e. Hero Chest) because they all left in the first place ( they have real jobs) have no chance in this game. To tell people play 5-6 hrs a week and u can compete is completely ridiculous. However, this is going to change with GoD. The working people will soon be the ones on top of L2 as both gear and level will be easier to obtain.
lol Sure let me get my party together and go raid Antharas and Valakhas lol Your really not the brightest bulb in the bunch. Top end clans rarely invite outsiders to these epic raids and never give them drops so what should do I refuse to join one of their clans just to get gear and even if I join one there is no guarantee they will ever give me the gear. I know many people who are in top clans who do epics raids who do not get the gear again even in those clans its horded by clan leaders and their favorite people.
Normal raids do not drop vorpal from the ones I have done (up to level 82 our highest tank's level)
Maybe ur not the "brightest bulb in the bunch" , since frint/freya drop vorpal more then enough ... but i guess its easier to come with excuses such like "i never can do an antharas/valakas raid .. U know what? If ur not in a top clan - u dont deserve top gear end of story
U say u know people in top clans which dont even get top gear, why a carebear that does nothing else then farm mobs and roleplay in giran should get top gear, while people in top clans which use alot of time to do raids and prolly also pvp for the bosses dont get top items ?
it been like that for many years ( in that way ppl are "forced" to join pvp clans if they wanna get better gear ) its already ridicolous that every idiot and his mom can raid frint/freya/ zaken , what more do u want?
If u want gear with questing etc etc without pvp, why play an open pvp game? Go play everquest or aion or mb even tetris i dunno , gl hf smart guy
These 2 reasons you give are the reasons why you fail to obtain enough money for gear.
1. Lineage 2 is not and never was a solo game, it has always been about party play in PVE and PVP. You could achieve much more with a party and make more money or loot more gear.
2. Lineage 2 is a grinding game. You have to grind for your exp and you have to grind your money. These are 2 seperate objective which both would require patience. Even with the exp becoming easier and the prices for A grade armor sets being lowered to a manageble amount, to achieve better gear you need to grind money.
When i was lvl 78 i too was still walking around in my A grade armor. So I decided to grind KE for money and even made a seperate char for it. I spend 100s of hours grinding money to be able to get the 700kk adena which Sgrade armor and weapon would cost back then. And now you tell me you cant get 200kk for a dynasty set and S weapons? There is always a way to make money... Find it and grind it.
Besides that the way I hear people speak about needing to use weapons with SA makes me think you have no sence of keeping adena aswell. You spend all you money on that weapon with SA which will make lvling for you a BIT easier, but you will never be able to sell the weapon for the same amount of money you spend on it. When I lvled my char I used common armor till lvl 74, when I was finally able to buy a Agrade set. I still level alts with common weapons, since the fraction a SA gives you on lower levels isnt even that great.
Wake up. I belong to one of the top clans on Chronos, we do 9 raids a week every week. What the heck are you talking about? The first time I ever played any type of mage was this week, I have always been melee, and my main has all sub certs on 3 more melee. Learn how to read please, the thread wasn't about ME. It's about NEW PEOPLE WHO START THIS GAME.
How many people want to take a new player under wing who's never played L2 before and has nothing? Not many, they are too busy scrounging for their own gear. What happens when they can no longer provide the gear? The new player quits. Stop with the every clan can provide gear for all. That's a load of BS and you know it, it's not possible due to drop rates. With the best possible cooperation among small clans, they can't fully gear all members.
And back we go to bragging about our own gear. I'd be willing to wager my combined game net worth is higher than yours. Who CARES?
1. If u were a bot over the past 4 -5 years u r laughing; u have everything u need and more, and continue to play L2 because u think u 'own' everyone. Gratz to u if u have come on these boards and tell working class legits how to earn adena and gear. As GoD approaches many of you will quit because you will begin to have your ***** handed to you. You will tell everyone how the game is not what it was, that it is too easy, and we should all remember how hard things were for you ( a bot, Jesus).
Lald
Have Fun
This killed me! SOOOOOO TRUE!!!! And that's EXACTLY what it is, bots/cheaters coming on this forum to tell legits how to make money:). I try not to steam every time I read another of their flippant responses, it's aggravating.
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE who played legit the real way, WITH friends, IN groups, WITHOUT cheating are getting ahead of the cheaters without being the beneficiaries of very large gifts or loans.... most likely from cheaters.
Hels, if you want to help the new players you can, it is very cheap to get them to S-grade with as much net worth as you proclaim to have.
Most people that want to play this game and want to get more stuff to play this game figure out how. Those that can't don't really want to play this game. As far as I am concerned… if you figured it out how to get more Adena, they can too. Let’s not forget it was much harder on you then it is on everyone now.
lol.
I start here, since 27, november last year or something and I dont see anything wrong with the market, or adena.
I DONT have clan, I DONT have Constant, I dont have party friends.
But, I DO HAVE.
1 toon noble and other lv73.
I have +2DBF 150water, +2ASCD 150water, +3Great Gale DYN knife CD 150wind. 1 QA ring, 1 Tezza necklace.
And I have vesper set(not noble yet), moirai set, and some others stuffs.
And i dont complain about the market, get real guyz, if U are new here or play like me, almost 1 year, its impossible have the same stuff that ppl who play l2 for 3 or more years. GET REAL AND STOP QQ.
If U have play NA server for more than 1 year and get less stuff than me, U really dont know how to play.
Ppl dont give me any help or adena, I make this spending time on giran marketing and kiling moobs on events: the watermellow event, the treasure sack event, and know this terrible letter event.
sorry for my english, I m from brasil and here, the english school arent good.
With all due respect Holyox dude u sound like a 24/7 dude as I described or a person on disabilty. I do not mean this rudely but tremendous amounts of time in a game legitly will always net results. To suggest that anyone can do this easily is simply ignorant.
With all due respect Holyox dude u sound like a 24/7 dude as I described or a person on disabilty. I do not mean this rudely but tremendous amounts of time in a game legitly will always net results. To suggest that anyone can do this easily is simply ignorant.
Lald
^^
I m in college, i m very good looking and not disability,^^ I play like 1 hour per day, from monday to friday, sometimes i play 3 or 4 hours, and if i dont have nothing good to do on saturday and sunday i spend all the day on game, but i always have something to do.
On that events, i spend some really good time, for example, from 27/04 to 04/05, i give my blood on this event, if i can sell all the stuffs that i got with 300+ turn ins i will end this event with 200m, when the event start i only have 13m on my bag.
With all due respect Holyox dude u sound like a 24/7 dude as I described or a person on disabilty. I do not mean this rudely but tremendous amounts of time in a game legitly will always net results. To suggest that anyone can do this easily is simply ignorant.
Lald
Even without events it's not too hard for someone at lvl 76 in A grade to make the adena needed for S gear in a week or two (playing 1 to 2 hrs per night). Given the person has a half way good DD with buffer of the same lvl you can farm KE at forts (not farming bosses) and with ease have 1 Mastery Codex to sell every other day.
If new ppl want to make it in this game they have to learn that every day can't be spent trying to get to most xp they can, but to be able to split your time between making adena and moving the xp bar.
I think that people are so used to the past and the overflow of cash and items from bots...
I think its ok now, I still can make fast money with events and selling stuff. Prices have gone down which is ok. Its easier to get gear now.... just have to use your head in Giran...
top clans do horde money and equipment, but IMO there is no excuse for this. who the hell would want to be in a clan which has no competition? all you are at that point is farmers.
and we thought we wanted the bots gone... id rather see those clans gone.
oh wait.
but it is true that even people in the clans sometimes dont get equipment. they are indeed kept for the leaders and their favorite members only.
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE who played legit the real way, WITH friends, IN groups, WITHOUT cheating are getting ahead of the cheaters without being the beneficiaries of very large gifts or loans.... most likely from cheaters.
Maybe GOD will be the fix. I hope you're right.
Who says about getting ahead of cheaters? It's obviously impossible. Getting ahead of cheaters means getting few rare +6 sets, few 300 weapons, all BJ +5 etc. Since when a new player needs such gear and especially in few months period?
But you claimed something different. You claimed that regular player cannot equip himself with normal stuff needed for normal playing. Which is 3x60 set, one 190-250 weapon (though even 150 will do) and set of jewels including one bj (frint or aq depending on class) and TW jewels. And it's not true, that it's impossible to get this stuff legit way, which many players can confirm.
So please decide what you QQ about. Either you QQ about cheaters (in which I agree with you) or you QQ about mobs dropping not enough stuff (for which I tell you to learn to play).
I only can say without a Clan or a few char rerollings to make some adena its close to impossible.
A friend and me made a new Clan like 1 year ago. Soon the first 2x XP weekend came and brought in the following days many new ppls to L2.
We took all the new players to help em and get some kind of the "newbie feeling" together with em. We had around 40 members which supported with D gear and later did 4x Raids with em to gave them the drops etc.
They lvled up with a rly decent speed -> BAEM A Grade or close to S Grade and most stopped since no way to get hands on S Armor or even S Weapon (not even one w/o ele and only a few could manage to get Wep+SA).
Guess what happened: 1 year later only 4 of em still playing main, some rerolled tons of alts and stop when they reach A Grade or S.
Around 30 stopped the game at all.
Who says? The above, and anyone who's played and tried to help brand new players. I've had a similar experience with the few truly new players I encountered too.
Again, we are 2 servers down from 6.
Identifying the problem is QQing? I claim the situation I, and many others have observed in the game. That you are a successful salesman able to get basic gear doesn't mean everyone who plays this game is. I don't need 'many' players to confirm anything. NCSoft has the subscription numbers. What's CONFIRMED is the subscriptions are dropping or mergers wouldn't have been necessary.
The better question is, why are you QQing that it shouldn't be changed? Many people who clearly are the best salesmen in the game leave their adena drops all over the hunting area to lag the zone. If the drops increased from a meager 1000 adena to 4500 adena, they'd still be the same piles lagging the zone, and nothing would change. Perhaps if the drops increased, players wouldn't consider them such a pittance they'd actually bother picking them up off the ground and unlag the zones.
That newbies get more money for gear hurts you how? That they might actually be able to play this game successfully and maintain an increase in server population, making this game more viable hurts you how? Or you simply QQ about anyone's suggestion to help others because its your nature to deny any help to others, even if it means cutting your own nose off to spite your face. More people = more revenue for NCSoft = more services and better events for all. Why do you care enough to argue this in the first place? Because you are a good salesman in Giran, reaffirming my point that only good used car salesmen and cheaters succeed at L2? Upping the drops would enable everyone to play successfully. That's a bad thing?
so when u reach lvl 40 u absolutely have nothing to get u'r C grade gears
Well, this issue is too complex for just one post.
However, if you want to get geared look for a clan that recruits in academy. We fully gear newbies including SA on weapon tho that might change since we no longer need so much crp right now. However, you should be able to get 10 mil adena if you find a legit clan for the 650 CRP.
That aside, it is true, in prelude you couldnt afford even ng shots all the time. I was using when in danger only. I leveled to 25 in ng gear and it took me some time, then i started making ssd/bspsd, then sold bspsd recipe i was spoiling in OB with my artisan...
Yes, it was very hard back then, but now ppl still complain.
Yes, farming forts is a way, market is a way (but not sell high buy low, that only works to a certain extent because, as more and more ppl leave and adena leaves the circuit, it will be harder and harder), TW is a way (but you need clan to help you with that-I am making 150 mil each TW), fishing is a way, aa is still somewhat a way, but only with leveling because farming aa only is no longer worth it.
Even oly is a way, but, deffinitelly, as a beginner, look for a clan to help you, you will save a lot of time this way and you may even get powerleveling. While such clans are rare, they do exist, and will always exist, at least for the academy points.
It was never easier to level and gear yourself, and is getting easier all the time as prices drop but adena from mobs is the same. Ppl npc now mats, crafting does not happen much today, soon there will be an equilibrium. In prelude ppl were crafting even top NG...
M
I only can say without a Clan or a few char rerollings to make some adena its close to impossible.
A friend and me made a new Clan like 1 year ago. Soon the first 2x XP weekend came and brought in the following days many new ppls to L2.
We took all the new players to help em and get some kind of the "newbie feeling" together with em. We had around 40 members which supported with D gear and later did 4x Raids with em to gave them the drops etc.
They lvled up with a rly decent speed -> BAEM A Grade or close to S Grade and most stopped since no way to get hands on S Armor or even S Weapon (not even one w/o ele and only a few could manage to get Wep+SA).
Guess what happened: 1 year later only 4 of em still playing main, some rerolled tons of alts and stop when they reach A Grade or S.
Around 30 stopped the game at all.
Who says? The above, and anyone who's played and tried to help brand new players. I've had a similar experience with the few truly new players I encountered too.
Again, we are 2 servers down from 6.
Identifying the problem is QQing? That you are a successful salesman able to get basic gear doesn't mean everyone who plays this game is.
By what you wrote, I figure you addressed this post to me. If so, please quote properly.
Anyway, nothing new. Out of 10 players, 9 are not good enough. But the thing is, we like this game, because it's hard.
And what do you mean by succesful salesman? You want to be able to afford good gear by just adena dropped from mobs? And maybe you also want top gear to be sold by NPC's? That doesn't happen in any MMO. Well, you know, these are social games.
Anyway I can't be called "succesful salesman". As I said before, I sell stuff below market prices. And TBH many of the party drops I use by myself (or other people in party use). Basically around 80% of my current equipment dropped from mobs, that my party killed. So how that makes me a salesman?
By what you wrote, I figure you addressed this post to me. If so, please quote properly.
Anyway, nothing new. Out of 10 players, 9 are not good enough. But the thing is, we like this game, because it's hard.
And what do you mean by succesful salesman? You want to be able to afford good gear by just adena dropped from mobs? And maybe you also want top gear to be sold by NPC's? That doesn't happen in any MMO. Well, you know, these are social games.
Anyway I can't be called "succesful salesman". As I said before, I sell stuff below market prices. And TBH many of the party drops I use by myself (or other people in party use). Basically around 80% of my current equipment dropped from mobs, that my party killed. So how that makes me a salesman?
9 of 10 are not good enough for what?
If you are talking about oly, obviously 9999 of 10000 aren't good enough.
If you are talking about being in top clans, 999 of 1000 aren't good enough.
If you are talking about getting basic gear, 9 of 10 not being good enough means they quit the game.
Same goes for casual players that only play a few hours here and there, and for them we can also add the fact that a sporadic play pattern will also result in them missing some ingame events, such as but not limited to GMs giving buffs and vitality.
Alot of ppl think just paying the subscription each month means they are entitled to EVERYTHING the game has to offers. This is far from true.
Empower yourself, if you wanna go anywhere in game. Find a good clan and party.
The cry threads about everything being so hard for ppl are getting a bit thick.
The problem is that the game must get easier for new players to get a higher player base again.
We havent the glory days where only hardcore ppl were fine. More and more Veterans leave and w/o insulting anyone, i have the feeling that the new players are simpyl too lazy or greedy.
But at all: Let new ppl get gear easier that they reach 80+ (which they do more then fast nowadays) AND have adena for gear. Will be boring to pvp 80+ ppl with A or S gear :D
Same goes for casual players that only play a few hours here and there, and for them we can also add the fact that a sporadic play pattern will also result in them missing some ingame events, such as but not limited to GMs giving buffs and vitality.
Alot of ppl think just paying the subscription each month means they are entitled to EVERYTHING the game has to offers. This is far from true.
Empower yourself, if you wanna go anywhere in game. Find a good clan and party.
The cry threads about everything being so hard for ppl are getting a bit thick.
All of the above is true. And trust me, Smittie is not one of my friends. Same goes in RL, being alive does not mean you are entitled to a castle and 100 limos, you only have some basic rights, same here, we pay to have servers up, cheater free game, good GMs, Admins, no lag, responsive staff, etc. We dont get those, true, and we should concentrate on requesting our basic rights first, only then see what can be improved in the game mechanics.
The problem is that the game must get easier for new players to get a higher player base again.
We havent the glory days where only hardcore ppl were fine. More and more Veterans leave and w/o insulting anyone, i have the feeling that the new players are simpyl too lazy or greedy.
But at all: Let new ppl get gear easier that they reach 80+ (which they do more then fast nowadays) AND have adena for gear. Will be boring to pvp 80+ ppl with A or S gear :D
I think that instead to adapt the game to more lazy ppl, we should make it fair and the hardcore veterans will come back. If it is hard for everyone, then it does not matter how hard it is, once some ppl can buy their way up to hero or hero char directly, others level 1-85 in a couple of months, of course there will be no sense of achievement and all will be boring to death (no "PvP", no interesting raids, no "crying" n00bs or "tards" who dont care for their level and gear...) as such they will leave. Someone who did all the drill from 1-85 will not quit so easy, server crashes, lag, NPC gone in the middle of a raid, that is nothing compared to the year they spend with their friends going up the scale. Making the game easier and allowing cheating will make ppl quit much faster than before.
M
Same goes for casual players that only play a few hours here and there, and for them we can also add the fact that a sporadic play pattern will also result in them missing some ingame events, such as but not limited to GMs giving buffs and vitality.
Alot of ppl think just paying the subscription each month means they are entitled to EVERYTHING the game has to offers. This is far from true.
Empower yourself, if you wanna go anywhere in game. Find a good clan and party.
The cry threads about everything being so hard for ppl are getting a bit thick.
OBVIOUSLY by increasing adena drops alone, NO ONE will end up with top gear of any kind in any level. You are just posting to hear yourself post?
A change like this doesn't impact ANYONE over 80 today.
As for 'dumbing down' the game by easier leveling... that was actually unnecessary, because that was never the real problem. Honestly, is there a difference in GRIND between killing 1000 WHITE MOBS for a level 30, a level 50, a level 70, a level 85? NO. You swing, you skill, you blast, whatever. The graphics on the mob changes, but the killing and dullness factor is the same.
Solo or party, you do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. You have a LOT of that to look forward to, what's a few tens of thousand more?
People play GAMES for gratification. Perhaps 1/3 play for that # change, other 2/3 play for the next GOODY (this number comes from the LOSS of 4 of 6 servers). That's why Agathions, pets, different armor looks have an impact. That's why BONUS GIFTS and EVENTS have an impact.
That # change (Levels) is the LEAST of our gratifications, so big whoppeee... we level faster. The game got EASIER!! NOOOOO!!! IT DID NOT. The actual reduction in the GRIND has not changed, because they keep adding Chronicles to UP the levels. Your grind doesn't ever END.
People LEAVE games because they do not get gratified fast enough. So you sit in Giran, you shout, you sell something... WHEE!! My LOOT changed! You shop in Giran you buy something... WHEEE!! My LOOT changed!! You are JUST as happy having enough tokens to get a HAT from the Rune guy as you are getting a piece of armor in most cases. It's a GOODY.
When you cannot afford any LOOT, any GOODIES, game gets OLD very fast. When the rewards do not equal a number of hours set IN YOUR HEAD, you are done. Everyone's threshold is different. Some are more patient than others, but the higher that threshold is set, the fewer the people you have willing to continue running the maze.
No one said the goodies always had to be a given thing, giving more adena gives you OPTIONS. Example of stupid, I had a choice between spending 200 mil adena when I was A grade on a HAT, or NEW WEAPON. I bought the HAT. Funny thing is, LOTS of people make stupid choices. Then back to grinding for the weapon... but hey... the hat made me happier. At my brokest, I never sold the hat.
Read the REVIEWS of L2 on every gaming magazine... over and over it's about the GRIND being too much. So L2 changed that with Vitality and Blessings and people still didn't come pouring in? Why? Because that's NOT THE GRIND. THE GRIND is ALL ABOUT LOOT and the INABILITY to get enough to stay gratified. Thus, the Giran salesmen are satisfied, and no one else is, because they never get enough adena to get STARTED in Giran.
Gamers are not dumb people, unless you judge only by reading this forum. On average, they are most likely over achievers looking to beat something else. Having more adena DROPS will not allow you to have enough to EVER buy a boss jewel, you have to get more creative for that anyway.
Bringing in a new population of players who get more adena to afford BASIC store gear also means that the 80+ get to SELL their old +4 and +5 gears too, something we all have to give away today.
And you know as well as I do, that lazy players will NEVER get Uber, even with 10x the adena drops increased, without getting a bit more motivated beyond soloing monsters. But those soloing monster 9-5 workers can enjoy the game world, NCSoft would have more subscribers, and WE would have more market.
How does that HURT you guys that you protest it so much? The ONLY thing that goes on on this forum is ideas to REDUCE the population. BAN this, BAN that. Lets NOT bring in more people because it's PLENTY easy enough, never mind that loads quit and continue to quit.
Then you have the people who post, slamming ideas for increasing server population, as an opportunity to brag about what they have in the game. When in fact, they have squat compared to the top players. And I mean SQUAT, judging by what I've read on this thread. If they increased the adena drops by 100x, most of you aren't catching up EVER. Because the top players will have that much more too. But you sure can shop more, and that's GRATIFYING.
No one suggests making the game LESS HARD. It is plenty hard enough. I want to hear how many people ON THIS THREAD has personally killed Antharas or Valakas. How many own their jewels? When there are still so many ACCOMPLISHMENTS that you have not achieved yourself, even perhaps at level 85 after YEARS of playing, how can you say this game is EASY already? And before you hit those milestones, if ever, GOD will be out and there will be STILL MORE boss mobs still MORE zones, still MORE loot you won't get. Too easy for you? Really?
I never said, lets drop all boss mob HP by 50%. I'm talking about the CAPABILITY of playing this game at a MINIMAL level WITHOUT being a used car salesman. That means you STILL HAVE TO TRADE to get better stuff, but if you can't/won't/don't want to, you can STILL play L2, and not have to quit. That opens the doors to a whole lot more people, who will have NO impact whatsoever on those with the better gear, except give you more people to kill and more people to sell to... and a game to return to if you take breaks.
If it is hard for everyone, then it does not matter how hard it is, once some ppl can buy their way up to hero or hero char directly, others level 1-85 in a couple of months, of course there will be no sense of achievement and all will be boring to death (no "PvP", no interesting raids, no "crying" n00bs or "tards" who dont care for their level and gear...) as such they will leave. Someone who did all the drill from 1-85 will not quit so easy, server crashes, lag, NPC gone in the middle of a raid, that is nothing compared to the year they spend with their friends going up the scale. Making the game easier and allowing cheating will make ppl quit much faster than before.
M
Can u stay just 1 time, JUST 1 TIME on the topic ???
1st, about being hard for all: U say that every1 that starts should play lets say 3-4 years to get to the same lvl incl. gear as ppl have right now? Ofc this brings more ppl (as we can see)
2nd, WTH has problem to gear up at A or S grade to do with ebay 85 chars or heros ?? Ur offtopic
3rd, why shouldnt there be pvp when ppl are 85 and equaly geared? (wonder why ppl still pvp then)
4th, what has techinical problems to do with adena problems? Again offtopic
5th, u say old players coming back enjoy playing together with the old friends still playing?? How if some real old ppl are 4x - 7x no noble, no sub etc?? How often will they have xp party or pvp with their 80+ friends not ending as low lvl or low geared meatshield?
6th, Easier game makes ppl quit? Hmm i am pretty sure that more ppl will come in then quit. Even if 500 ppl are new, stay like 1 year on 85 and get bored to stop it will be 500 more ppl. And dunno why 80+ ppl should quit if A + S grade gear will be easier to get due to adena?
And last but not least, "allowing cheating will make ppl quit much faster than before" Tell me how, since cheating isnt some new in that game.
Can u stay just 1 time, JUST 1 TIME on the topic ???
1st, about being hard for all: U say that every1 that starts should play lets say 3-4 years to get to the same lvl incl. gear as ppl have right now? Ofc this brings more ppl (as we can see)
2nd, WTH has problem to gear up at A or S grade to do with ebay 85 chars or heros ?? Ur offtopic
3rd, why shouldnt there be pvp when ppl are 85 and equaly geared? (wonder why ppl still pvp then)
4th, what has techinical problems to do with adena problems? Again offtopic
5th, u say old players coming back enjoy playing together with the old friends still playing?? How if some real old ppl are 4x - 7x no noble, no sub etc?? How often will they have xp party or pvp with their 80+ friends not ending as low lvl or low geared meatshield?
6th, Easier game makes ppl quit? Hmm i am pretty sure that more ppl will come in then quit. Even if 500 ppl are new, stay like 1 year on 85 and get bored to stop it will be 500 more ppl. And dunno why 80+ ppl should quit if A + S grade gear will be easier to get due to adena?
And last but not least, "allowing cheating will make ppl quit much faster than before" Tell me how, since cheating isnt some new in that game.
First, this is not WOW. We are far removed from a tweek of easier hunting, etc will cause the population to grow in any magnitude.
The others posting to you here have the game, the culture and the realities of what we call Lineage 2 correct, no matter how you "want" it to be. I am a casual player by most standards on here even though I average 1 to 2 hours during the week and as much time as I can on the weekend.
Without a Clan, without participation, without effort or rerolling and time, you can't get there from here in this world. I serously doubt that things are going to change with a 7 year old game and to be honest this next update sure smacks of StarWars' update a few years back that broke that game for Sony. It seems the Koreans are not listening to the Japanese when it comes to opps moments.
As maomao and smittie mentioned the game is far from you can pay and you exp so you deserve all the rest!
This is how its always been the difference is that back in the days you would hit this wall at lvl 40 when you should equip in c grade ( no c grades where in shops back then) and now you hit it at lvl 76
The game needs you to go both as an exp machine and as a salesman
As for someone mentioning that "i dont want to play as salesman why should i" well that is a part of the game! you can try to avoid it but it will always hit you in the back.
Many through the years had to delvl so to stay more in a spot with a good quest like frozen labyrinth or exp a dwarf for spoiling and selling or stop exp and do forts or fishing or farming aa.........
The fact you can exp faster does not mean that you can skip this part of the game.
And yet nowdays the casual players are helped to exp faster that does not mean that automaticly they will gear up and be able to be competitive. They will have to also invest some time in the market thats how its always been done. the game just helps them to get in a lvl not so far from the others so they can find parties but they need to geear by themselves.
And as mentioned above finding a clan can help in that, not cause they will give you items but they can give info (and items depending lvl and clan)
The funny thing to me is any MMO I have played or read about requires teamwork and going a solo route will not get you far. They all have some sort of "Grind" may it be adena / xp in Lineage or in WoW Points from doing the same 5 instances everyday / week killing the same monsters / bosses ( Sound Familiar to anyone? ). Older gear always becomes less effective by either adding a new grade in Lineage or adding a new instance in WoW. Getting the best items requires you to be in an effective or top clan / guild as well in both games. All of your complaints exist in any MMO so if its a major concern you might not want to play this genre of games.
Seems it boils down to what the complaints have always been, L2 is too hard for the new player. Over these 7 wonderful years NCSoft has done everything to make it easier and less stressful to new players in hopes it would keep the weaker gamer subscribing. Changing the game has not brought the subscriptions up to the levels of the early years. Each change has followed the crying of those that claimed it was too hard and making it easier to get some form of gratification in the hopes it would gain new player retention.
The skill of giving preference to long term goals over more immediate ones is known as deferred gratification, and it is usually considered virtue.
It is a 7 year old game. If someone honestly expects to jump right in and be able to obtain the same level of power character wise in a few months that someone spent years on needs a different game anyway. Sadly all games have a life cycle and you are correct that NC is trying to keep new people subbing but the older a game is the harder it will be.
It is a 7 year old game. If someone honestly expects to jump right in and be able to obtain the same level of power character wise in a few months that someone spent years on needs a different game anyway. Sadly all games have a life cycle and you are correct that NC is trying to keep new people subbing but the older a game is the harder it will be.
+1, especially because this particular game is a gear grind. since older players are grinding more in the higher end, new players wont have the low gear available unless the game makes it easier to obtain.
i still remember crafting top D grade. for profit. 6m per helm was a ton of cash.
But, but they DID make it easier to obtain for n00bies, hence the entire thread here and all the posts. The thing that happened was the wall moved way up from D to C to B to A and now to around 76.
No, in that reguard, NcSoft did make it a lot easier to for the new player to come in and do something with out clan, grind, hours, but the flip side is that to get above the wall, the player has to put some kind of real effort into it and the game.
It is a 7 year old game. If someone honestly expects to jump right in and be able to obtain the same level of power character wise in a few months that someone spent years on needs a different game anyway. Sadly all games have a life cycle and you are correct that NC is trying to keep new people subbing but the older a game is the harder it will be.
Nowhere did anyone state that new players should be able to "obtain the same level of power character wise in a few months". Did you see that somewhere? Who said it?
I honestly don't believe it would be that hard to acquire new players if NCSoft did some ADVERTISING. Especially for the new update coming out, which most have acknowledged as being practically a new game. Adding it on to the complexity and unsurpassed detail of the original L2, instead of making it another simplistic Aion, could be a stroke of marketing genius if they executed it properly.
L2 is by far the most magnificent MMO ever created, and if most WOW players had a chance to test it, I think our base would increase immensely (at least til they ran out of free gear in B grade for lazy WOW players). Player retention has always been the main problem, taking a backseat to getting people to TRY it.
Making leveling easier was the wrong solution... because the original problem, not having enough adena to gear, was EXACERBATED with faster leveling.
Mobs that dropped X adena continued to drop X adena, even when they gave 4.5x the XP. Everyone leveled faster... with 1/4 the compensation for it. That made the adena shortage much more painful than it EVER was.
They sort of recognized the problem with the Hero chest gear. However, that will last 3 months. Even in 3 months no one is going to farm enough adena and mats to make their own S gear, let alone S84 gear from all this fast leveling. What will happen in 3 months?
It's a 7 year old game... with a brand new version coming out. I hope NCSoft has a plan that will execute within the 3 months. I hope they do, because this game dying should not be an option.
the real problem with adena is that people expect that as soon as they reach a grade, they should be able to buy top a grade gear INSTANTLY.
sorry but thats not how it is and not how it should be. kids dont understand that u wont always have THE BEST RIGHT AWAY. suck it up for a few lvls and buy that common a grade set part by part. play more aspects of the game instead of grinding. do raidbosses/kamas (i got 21 EWD from 1 kama last time sell them at 150k = 3m which means u should easily be able to buy a proper c grade set etc etc)
nothing wrong with adena in this game. just the mindset most kids have are wrong. cuz its hard doesnt mean its broken.
the real problem with adena is that people expect that as soon as they reach a grade, they should be able to buy top a grade gear INSTANTLY.
sorry but thats not how it is and not how it should be. kids dont understand that u wont always have THE BEST RIGHT AWAY. suck it up for a few lvls and buy that common a grade set part by part. play more aspects of the game instead of grinding. do raidbosses/kamas (i got 21 EWD from 1 kama last time sell them at 150k = 3m which means u should easily be able to buy a proper c grade set etc etc)
nothing wrong with adena in this game. just the mindset most kids have are wrong. cuz its hard doesnt mean its broken.
As easy as you think it is to level, why don't you try it? Cheat even by giving your toon all the gear from main for grades D and C. ALL of it. But, then don't give the toon another dime. NOTHING. Spend only what you'd spend if you were playing.
You can't afford B gear from the shop... forget about top gear, ANY gear. Use your C til A grade. Then see if you can afford A armor, let alone weapon when you hit A grade. Then try hunting with your plain C weapon, A grade light blue mobs. In a few hours, you will see everything I'm talking about.
This little experiment should take you a few days, it's an eye opener.
The next thing you will say is that you have a 100% hands down hot girl/boy friend that everyone wants but of course we would not know him/her since you meet at Niagara Falls and he/she lives in Canada so we would not know him/her.....
if you are going to post "i m very good looking and not disability" then either;
A) trolling
B) or post a pic to prove it.
As easy as you think it is to level, why don't you try it? Cheat even by giving your toon all the gear from main for grades D and C. ALL of it. But, then don't give the toon another dime. NOTHING. Spend only what you'd spend if you were playing.
You can't afford B gear from the shop... forget about top gear, ANY gear. Use your C til A grade. Then see if you can afford A armor, let alone weapon when you hit A grade. Then try hunting with your plain C weapon, A grade light blue mobs. In a few hours, you will see everything I'm talking about.
This little experiment should take you a few days, it's an eye opener.
i came back recently and when i came back i was gonna make a box wc for my main. since i didnt wanna waste money i decided to leave my main acc inactive till my wc was ready and started a new acc for the wc. in the last month i got lvl 1-64 and i got common tallum set and some common a grade weapon and 2m cash. (not counting the 12m i made from the letter event.) please note: this was including the 2x exp week so i SHOULD according to ur overdramatised theory have even less cash and gear then usual.
i made alot of money from doing kamas, hunting in catas for AA, not buying hourglasses etc etc
u want a eye opener? stop expecting things to be EASY and thinking they should be handed to you. also stop dramatising and overexagerating
i came back recently and when i came back i was gonna make a box wc for my main. since i didnt wanna waste money i decided to leave my main acc inactive till my wc was ready and started a new acc for the wc. in the last month i got lvl 1-64 and i got common tallum set and some common a grade weapon and 2m cash. (not counting the 12m i made from the letter event.) please note: this was including the 2x exp week so i SHOULD according to ur overdramatised theory have even less cash and gear then usual.
i made alot of money from doing kamas, hunting in catas for AA, not buying hourglasses etc etc
u want a eye opener? stop expecting things to be EASY and thinking they should be handed to you. also stop dramatising and overexagerating
You said it yourself, you CAME BACK. So did I. Everyone who started this game and CAME BACK know exactly what they are getting themselves into. Anything easier than the complete misery we endured in Prelude is an improvement, so of course it's 'easy' comparatively. But we aren't the 'typical' MMO players either. The players who love L2 as it is represent a fraction of the gaming population.
My entire point was that making small changes to increase the general game population benefits casual players more, which are a money source for NCSoft, but not many of those players are going to have the drive the current crew of L2 have. They would not end up competing with us, they'd end up benefiting our game economy, and be happy with less.
Further, you did it during the event, meaning you got the bonus pack enhancements as well as some GM buffs ... meaning you were killing monsters that dropped more adena than you would have without the event. The higher leveled the mob, the more adena it drops. You knew that. Events and free loot/buffs don't happen every day.
A WC is incomparable to a melee toon, because of grouping desirability, nor are you comparable to any newbie who has NO idea where to hunt, what to do. Everyone who returns to this game has a clue about hunting efficiency in L2, your example doesn't change anything I said, which is about attracting NEW players to L2.
ur like a brick wall. whatever people say to u, examples, reasons, explanations, u just bounce it with more blabla but here since u cant comprehend and accept things ill go in further detail for you:
i came back after 6 years. hence i did not remember ANYTHING. however i used the forum to ask questions and found a clan that helped me out. any newbie can do the same thing. about double exp week, yeah i got 30 minutes a day of zaken swords buffs WOW? also since the exp i got was 900% this means that even if that half an hour a day i would hunt a little bit stronger mobs and got a lil bit bigger adena drops, the double exp would still lvl me way to fast according to ur overexaggerated story. i got 2 or 3 gm buffs at most since i dont play many hours in a row so i wasnt on mostly while they were given out.
also for each 1 wc per party there are 3-5 dders needed hence ur desperate attempt of saying omg wc doesnt count cuz he good party menz is nonsense. also what awesome parties are there for such low lvl anyway lol hello newbie buffs?
im all for attracting new players but ur full of nonsense saying how its IMPOSSIBLE to afford common c b or a grade lol????
ps on a different note people will be able to do quests from lvl 1-40 in 3 hours when GoD comes. also the gear rewards will be much better. so the game will already get alot easier for noobs. right now its semi-hard and thats GOOD. lazy kids who want everything handed to them would just ruin this game more anyway.
u will probably have alot of talk again blabla but i just PROVED u wrong with myself as a example.
if u rlly want new players, tell ncsoft to advertise lol
pps im not flaming u. im just saying ur wrong and full of drama in ur posts :P
pps i just saw a full common dark crystal set (a grade) for 2.5m in giran :) if u dont have 2,5m at lvl 60+ ur playing wrong, and thats not the games fault lmao
First, this is not WOW. We are far removed from a tweek of easier hunting, etc will cause the population to grow in any magnitude.
The others posting to you here have the game, the culture and the realities of what we call Lineage 2 correct, no matter how you "want" it to be. I am a casual player by most standards on here even though I average 1 to 2 hours during the week and as much time as I can on the weekend.
Without a Clan, without participation, without effort or rerolling and time, you can't get there from here in this world. I serously doubt that things are going to change with a 7 year old game and to be honest this next update sure smacks of StarWars' update a few years back that broke that game for Sony. It seems the Koreans are not listening to the Japanese when it comes to opps moments.
I think u should re-read my post.
Point 1 to 5 goes to MaoMao to wanna know more of her thoughts and explain her thoughts and to show that they have nothing to do with the problem the topic is about.
Only point 6 is what i think how to get more ppl back/new to the game.
Dont u agree that this would bring way more ppl instead let ppl see to play endless to get to the real game content? (Also i mentioned before that it seems the new ppl are simply to lazy it seems)
Back as we all were lower lvl there was way more action/focus on the lower lvl places, now its the 80+ or even 83+ content.
Also i know what/how L2 is. I am myself 85/79/77/76 with several nobles, +7 Vesper's, 4/5 BJ etc. Ppl know me from old Franz and i still get pm's if i have this or that OE for sale etc. since i was well-known for playing the market.
And no, i never was in the TOP Clans or a hardcore gamer. Usually i play around 15-20h/week incl. weekend.
@hels
You mentioned above doing 1-76 and see if having the adena to go forth
Before months or so i started exping a Dark wizard when reached lvl 40 i had just the adena to buy a homu no acumen yet since i have bigger chars i gave him a homu +5 acumen and a karmian which if in any clan i dont think that they wont give you a homu acumen and a karmian nowdays.
I contineu exping with homu till 76 (yet i did gave the char a dc robe) but it does not increase my dmg but only my cast since DE mages have realy low castspeed.
I also exped during some double exp events and also died enough times to always have sp for all skills and spare.
Also i did 4times or more my exp hours when the double exps came and always had with me a kooka (actually i didnt want to exp the mage but only the kooka) and exping with main it died quite a lot.
Anyways i went on a series of spots that i know that drop much adena and at lvl 76 i had something more than 110mil.
40 - 58 i was outside ivory al the way to basilisks and a little bit forzen labyrinth and the adena i got was almost nothing less than 5 mils
From 58 to 65~66 or little more since i cant recall exactly i was in VoS (the q there gives 100k per time you finish it)
From then and on forest of the dead and after 72 either in FoD or pavel hitting the machines! (also fod has q that gives 120k everytime you finish it).
I found an arcana mace 150 wind for 100 mil in naia and i am sure that i could stay a little longer so to gather the adena for a dc if i didnt already have one (i didnt buy the AM since this player wasnt going to exp any more) yet from luck i reached him 77and 55% and at the end of the exp i used a homu +12 but either with homu +5 or +12 most mobs were 2 hits and since the adena for bssc are almost nothing nowdays i dont think it would make such a difference!
The above is not for show off since many would do it faster and with more adena in their pockets at the end yet it shows that everything can be done.
The game is indeed difficult but thats the sweet part of it, i have played aion and WOW and these games pay of just by investing time in them!
Lineage2 pays of a fragment of your pain and blood in the start yet by time you become more efficient and you can increase this fragment to a big piece or the whole cake itself!
You can try to prove me wrong and i can dare you to do the above i did and you will see that especialy on fod you will put a million in pocket for every hour of exp!
As easy as you think it is to level, why don't you try it?
Such experiment has already been made and results were posted on Elliebelly. It proved something completely different than you say - The new char did EASILY obtained all needed gear - from quest (mostly), selling stuff and other players help.
A WC is incomparable to a melee toon, because of grouping desirability
What you mean? WC has problems finding party unless he is 85 with +15 COV, cause well, boxed WC is better than live one, in regard he doesn't take share of drops.
And for 6x WC it is impossible to find party cause of newbie buffs.
That's true problem NC should think about solving. I recently met a new player - EE level 78. She said that party we invited her for, was her third party on this server. Well, who needs EE on lower levels if you have herbs and kookaburas? All this help really destroys game for lowbie support classes.
@hels
You mentioned above doing 1-76 and see if having the adena to go forth
Before months or so i started exping a Dark wizard when reached lvl 40 i had just the adena to buy a homu no acumen yet since i have bigger chars i gave him a homu +5 acumen and a karmian which if in any clan i dont think that they wont give you a homu acumen and a karmian nowdays.
I contineu exping with homu till 76 (yet i did gave the char a dc robe) but it does not increase my dmg but only my cast since DE mages have realy low castspeed.
I also exped during some double exp events and also died enough times to always have sp for all skills and spare.
Also i did 4times or more my exp hours when the double exps came and always had with me a kooka (actually i didnt want to exp the mage but only the kooka) and exping with main it died quite a lot.
Anyways i went on a series of spots that i know that drop much adena and at lvl 76 i had something more than 110mil.
40 - 58 i was outside ivory al the way to basilisks and a little bit forzen labyrinth and the adena i got was almost nothing less than 5 mils
From 58 to 65~66 or little more since i cant recall exactly i was in VoS (the q there gives 100k per time you finish it)
From then and on forest of the dead and after 72 either in FoD or pavel hitting the machines! (also fod has q that gives 120k everytime you finish it).
I found an arcana mace 150 wind for 100 mil in naia and i am sure that i could stay a little longer so to gather the adena for a dc if i didnt already have one (i didnt buy the AM since this player wasnt going to exp any more) yet from luck i reached him 77and 55% and at the end of the exp i used a homu +12 but either with homu +5 or +12 most mobs were 2 hits and since the adena for bssc are almost nothing nowdays i dont think it would make such a difference!
The above is not for show off since many would do it faster and with more adena in their pockets at the end yet it shows that everything can be done.
The game is indeed difficult but thats the sweet part of it, i have played aion and WOW and these games pay of just by investing time in them!
Lineage2 pays of a fragment of your pain and blood in the start yet by time you become more efficient and you can increase this fragment to a big piece or the whole cake itself!
You can try to prove me wrong and i can dare you to do the above i did and you will see that especialy on fod you will put a million in pocket for every hour of exp!
And how would you play to make money if this was your main toon now and you didnt have allready gear from other toons ?Because this toon with ready gear,from the adena he made if he had to buy this gear he would be with....50-60m?And ofc,he couldn't xp in best areas and make those q with crappy comon gear.
Tell us how would you play and how much time it would take to make adena for dynasty set/am weapon 150(at least)to keep lvling,then make adena for icarus 300,attribute your armor,or buy new armor and attribute it and i dont even ask how you would make adena to start buying epics.
Your example proves that classes can lvl if they are lucky and a vitality event with adena rewards is on and get geared with minimum accepted gear for pve.And that's how we would all be if we didnt play in the years of bots and RMT to have people willing always to buy or craft anything.I dont think that everywhere in the officiel servers in the world there's RMT included only for those who want to make all ++++++++++,but because the game mechanics dont work without RMT.
Players with not much time aviable to play, people with only one account, people with not much friends ingame WILL have always hard or almost impossible ways to get some decent adena for aquiring some 80+ gear. This should be changed in my thinking. Or you are a "hardcore" gamer and you may profit from it or you a casual player and need to stay in normal S grade dreaming about being strong like many others.
Players with not much time aviable to play, people with only one account, people with not much friends ingame WILL have always hard or almost impossible ways to get some decent adena for aquiring some 80+ gear. This should be changed in my thinking. Or you are a "hardcore" gamer and you may profit from it or you a casual player and need to stay in normal S grade dreaming about being strong like many others.
ATM mine problem is vitality multiply only exp. Better exp, less drop. This actualy crash mine founds. In last event 2x exp, 1x drop; crash again. Gratz letter event, I sell mine letters II and S and make adena again.
Drop/spoil/adena rate need multiply by experience bonus rates: ex.: vit 4 + nevit = 3x drop/spoil/adena. But this is core, need korean help. L2 Usa/Euro can't help us.
ATM mine problem is vitality multiply only exp. Better exp, less drop. This actualy crash mine founds. In last event 2x exp, 1x drop; crash again. Gratz letter event, I sell mine letters II and S and make adena again.
Drop/spoil/adena rate need multiply by experience bonus rates: ex.: vit 4 + nevit = 3x drop/spoil/adena. But this is core, need korean help. L2 Usa/Euro can't help us.
Thats true, most people which have problems with obtaining adena, do their adena by selling event stuff. And yes, double XP/SP but adena rate stays the same...its not balanced..to fast lvling and less adena aviable to gear up due to your lvl is just wrong.
And other people still don't pay what they owe to other ppl.. Yes.. 9 months have passed.. and Drac still didn't pay me.. but he has S80 gear.. maybe I should start deleveling him :D
ur like a brick wall. whatever people say to u, examples, reasons, explanations, u just bounce it with more blabla but here since u cant comprehend and accept things ill go in further detail for you:
i came back after 6 years. hence i did not remember ANYTHING. however i used the forum to ask questions and found a clan that helped me out. any newbie can do the same thing. about double exp week, yeah i got 30 minutes a day of zaken swords buffs WOW? also since the exp i got was 900% this means that even if that half an hour a day i would hunt a little bit stronger mobs and got a lil bit bigger adena drops, the double exp would still lvl me way to fast according to ur overexaggerated story. i got 2 or 3 gm buffs at most since i dont play many hours in a row so i wasnt on mostly while they were given out.
also for each 1 wc per party there are 3-5 dders needed hence ur desperate attempt of saying omg wc doesnt count cuz he good party menz is nonsense. also what awesome parties are there for such low lvl anyway lol hello newbie buffs?
im all for attracting new players but ur full of nonsense saying how its IMPOSSIBLE to afford common c b or a grade lol????
u will probably have alot of talk again blabla but i just PROVED u wrong with myself as a example.
You didn't prove me wrong. You did exactly what I said most newbies wouldn't know to do. Get a clan, play a support class WITH A CLAN.
Your own post contradicts your point, and proves mine.
1. You are not a new player.
2. You played a support class in parties (you can play your WC naked in a support party where you buff every 20 min, my 80 DC is in b grade, and I even play it live sometimes)
3. I never said anything about affording COMMON drops, since doh, they are DROPS.
4. Your CLAN helped you
Does the above put you in the company with people who are typical brand new players with limited time? No.
But... one point you made that didn't occur to me... you are satisfied with A grade common gear, and I was referring to affording Luxury store A grade armor/weapons. Why is A grade sold if normal A graders can't afford to buy it and must wear Common farmed items that cannot be enhanced?
Doing Kama and farming, you have the option to get enchant scrolls to ++ it, or augment weapons when you get stone drops. It's not very gratifying when you are forced to sell your scrolls and stones for money instead of being able to benefit yourself from it. From D - S, they'd miss out on that entire aspect of the game.
So, in one sense, you may be right. I underestimated what people would consider a playable MAIN toon. Of course people aren't going to have +10 weapons or even all +3 armor/jewels, but it never occurred to me that all common gear would be enough to keep anyone playing this game.
Back in Prelude to C3-- we all DID afford our 'regular' armors/weapons. They may not have been L33t, but there was no common and no one fought naked. You are shortchanged in Adena, and you don't even know it.
If I'm still in Common with only 2 mil adena by A grade, having missed all the game features such as SA stones and Augs, I'd cancel my account as a fail right there. That you continue to struggle with that, you are a rare gamer. But I'd like to see what you wear at S80:).
To add to what you were screwed out of and don't know about... when I came back in this game as a level 58, I had a COMPLETE B Light Doom Set +3, my Mortal Strike Crystal Dagger, nassan earrings, seal rings, and a Strider, among many other items.
I could afford that from Adena drops alone back in C2 or 3, with the exception of the Doom Helm, which was a clan gift because less than a handful existed on the server back then.
Could I do that by B grade today from adena drops? Absolutely not.
I'd be geared like you, in common. Did the game get EASIER when all you can afford is common and have 2 million adena left over by A grade?
Did the game get EASIER when all you can afford is common and have 2 million adena left over by A grade?
Yes. Till level 80 only thing you need is level. You can play a support class almost naked, you say your dc is in b grade, my level 80 is in ng and some common c, tho I am waiting the hero chest and that will change.
Common A grade is enough to level up even solo a destro to S grade. I know a handful that did just that, for example. I did it for a WL, but it is true had great buffs and a buffalo as well as clan help a lot of times.
Even support classes as bishops can solo hero rift in common a gear after level 76 or so if they have a kooka.
Is it enjoyable ? Who knows, everyone with his ideas even tho i dont believe soloing can be enjoyable, but there are ppl that prefer that to a party for maximising exp in their view. And in events everyone does it, also level gap stops many parties from forming up (GG for this, like we had too many parties and they needed a nerf so ppl will solo/duo with box more at lower levels).
Is this playable ? Perfectly, yes, you wont have max efficiency, but no problems if you choose the right chars and setups. Summoner, anyone ? Cheap shots, interesting class, perfect for solo, if you feel like that...
The game did get easier. It took 3 months for me to gear up and level to 40 in c3 2 chars. With almost daily raids and rift parties (remember "Raid lF healer 38-45" in Dion ?) i was playing SE and an artisan. You can get 40 in a day with 0 help. Shadow weapons will even let a lot of money in your pocket so you get common c grade and have spare for shots. There was no protection from level 7x PK at Dion gates, no vita, much less penalty for PK, equipment drop when killed by anything, ppl were saving shots a lot of time, so on and so forth. Not even bots could dream of making 1-70 in a few days, now legits can do it even without any help, so you say the game is hard now ???
True level 70 is not endgame, far from it, but you can get there in a few months, level 83 in 6 months is perfectly possible by even a casual player (daily play, not once a week, tho), in 3 months from a regular l2 player and in a month by a hardcore one, full legit. 1-70 in a month in C1 ??? 24/7 AFK wouldnt get you even close. Then ?
M
@atarth
1)I dont know if you read but lvling to 76 with homu +5 isnt exactly the difficult equipment to obtain and also even in fod or pavel you can easily kill mobs with the karmian!!!!! i just used the dc to kill faster since i wanted to lvl that kooka
2) if i wanted more adena i would delvl a bit and redo 73 to 76 there and as for total adena i mentioned making about 110 mil which is enough for AM 150wind acu ALSO i mentioned that my only purpose was to EXP kooka and NOT make adena! and i think i also wrote that l2 does not just pays out your play time but your actual efforts
Also if someone needs elements on set and 300weapon he isnt going for just exp so he SHOULD find clan or play market or any part of game that can make him adena if a casual player that parties only once in a while and does not do much of a pvp needs(really wants) 300 weapon he should consider not being so casual or stop exp and try make adena!
Point 1 to 5 goes to MaoMao to wanna know more of her thoughts and explain her thoughts and to show that they have nothing to do with the problem the topic is about.
Only point 6 is what i think how to get more ppl back/new to the game.
Dont u agree that this would bring way more ppl instead let ppl see to play endless to get to the real game content? (Also i mentioned before that it seems the new ppl are simply to lazy it seems)
Back as we all were lower lvl there was way more action/focus on the lower lvl places, now its the 80+ or even 83+ content.
Also i know what/how L2 is. I am myself 85/79/77/76 with several nobles, +7 Vesper's, 4/5 BJ etc. Ppl know me from old Franz and i still get pm's if i have this or that OE for sale etc. since i was well-known for playing the market.
And no, i never was in the TOP Clans or a hardcore gamer. Usually i play around 15-20h/week incl. weekend.
And I came over from Lineage 1, I have been asking for this for over 5 years and I remember when too.
This comes around, time and again and time and again it comes back to the cost benfit analysis of NcSoft, not what we want in the game or wish it would be.
The emerald glasses didn't help dorthy and they won't help anyone here until they realize this is a money printing operation and when the profit margin is falling below X%, they will cut or remove those things that are impeading making that margin (ie: server consolidation).
I am all for growing this game, but NcSoft has shown that it is interested in the next big MMO it can produce, not in squeezing more out of a 7 year old game for the NA area.
Oh, but thank you for helping to make this a game, we do appreciat your particiapation.
Yes. Till level 80 only thing you need is level. You can play a support class almost naked, you say your dc is in b grade, my level 80 is in ng and some common c, tho I am waiting the hero chest and that will change.
Common A grade is enough to level up even solo a destro to S grade. I know a handful that did just that, for example. I did it for a WL, but it is true had great buffs and a buffalo as well as clan help a lot of times.
Even support classes as bishops can solo hero rift in common a gear after level 76 or so if they have a kooka.
Is it enjoyable ? Who knows, everyone with his ideas even tho i dont believe soloing can be enjoyable, but there are ppl that prefer that to a party for maximising exp in their view. And in events everyone does it, also level gap stops many parties from forming up (GG for this, like we had too many parties and they needed a nerf so ppl will solo/duo with box more at lower levels).
Is this playable ? Perfectly, yes, you wont have max efficiency, but no problems if you choose the right chars and setups. Summoner, anyone ? Cheap shots, interesting class, perfect for solo, if you feel like that...
The game did get easier. It took 3 months for me to gear up and level to 40 in c3 2 chars. With almost daily raids and rift parties (remember "Raid lF healer 38-45" in Dion ?) i was playing SE and an artisan. You can get 40 in a day with 0 help. Shadow weapons will even let a lot of money in your pocket so you get common c grade and have spare for shots. There was no protection from level 7x PK at Dion gates, no vita, much less penalty for PK, equipment drop when killed by anything, ppl were saving shots a lot of time, so on and so forth. Not even bots could dream of making 1-70 in a few days, now legits can do it even without any help, so you say the game is hard now ???
True level 70 is not endgame, far from it, but you can get there in a few months, level 83 in 6 months is perfectly possible by even a casual player (daily play, not once a week, tho), in 3 months from a regular l2 player and in a month by a hardcore one, full legit. 1-70 in a month in C1 ??? 24/7 AFK wouldnt get you even close. Then ?
M
No...MaoMao...she screamed and cried in clan chat for better gear and weapon with out really participating to do anything to get it...and then dropped tag
Your second example is off (Adena earned is less than 120k according to your example).
As you level, the mobs drop more and more money.
Manor.
Clan help.
Non-gear dependent toons.
Party.
Work the market?
I mean, what are you trying to say? You can't afford gear by straight grinding? Not only do I not think that's true (common items) but why doesn't your "analysis" provide suggestions for alternatives? You seem to be banging your head against the wall and complaining about a headache. There are options, explore them.
Remove manor from your list. It has not been fixed yet.
The production of manor fruits is 2 (or more) times higher than what the castles are allowed to buy.
So if you try manor, you spend adena on the seeds, you don't get the normal drops and you end up with fruits which you cannot sell to the castles because of the wrong settings of the manor system.
Solution for the manor system: either increase the quotas for the castles for the fruits or reduce the quotas for the seeds.
Even if it gets fixed (not likely), you end up with materials which you cannot sell on the market. Nobody buys materials anymore (except for NPCs). Only very few people craft. It is cheaper to buy armors/weapons than to make them.
I don't have any problems with adena, but I see a big difference. I used to earn much more adena :)
@atarth
1)I dont know if you read but lvling to 76 with homu +5 isnt exactly the difficult equipment to obtain and also even in fod or pavel you can easily kill mobs with the karmian!!!!! i just used the dc to kill faster since i wanted to lvl that kooka
2) if i wanted more adena i would delvl a bit and redo 73 to 76 there and as for total adena i mentioned making about 110 mil which is enough for AM 150wind acu ALSO i mentioned that my only purpose was to EXP kooka and NOT make adena! and i think i also wrote that l2 does not just pays out your play time but your actual efforts
Also if someone needs elements on set and 300weapon he isnt going for just exp so he SHOULD find clan or play market or any part of game that can make him adena if a casual player that parties only once in a while and does not do much of a pvp needs(really wants) 300 weapon he should consider not being so casual or stop exp and try make adena!
Okkk.
Now we agree,L2 mechanics are as they are to only allow a player to be a casual player,meaning make the basic gear to be able to kill some mobs in easy areas,all other activitys expelled since he needs better gear/higher lvl to participate and playing the market requires to play in a server where there's RMT,if not RMT,then all players gear/lvl would stop around a/s grade.
All the years we were not getting the good events Koreans did,i had a hope this was the thing we were missing to keep up.But since we start getting them,i saw we should farm them with 5-10 accounts to make money,the rewards for single account were good only for a beginner in game.
My question is,who decides for the player that he will be a casual player?When we started in L2,we didnt bought an edition or paid a suscribtion for ''casual players only'' or for ''full gamers only''.Selling a game his mechanics wont provide you with the adena/gear you need to go to next lvl(update) as you advertise,then what are you doing to this player?Maybe cheating on his time and money he gives for your product?
Who and with what rights decided for how many years BOT/RMT will be in a server -creating an enviroment for a player who wishes to bot or ebay to make top toons and play top game's content and also let the legits and casual players to play in a live market to get benefit from-
and who decides that this stops now,old botters and ebayers keep their toons and adena to become an ''elite'' that will dominate for ever and let all other players been poor but greatfull that go xp and dont see a bot.
Russians tactic from the begining of server f2p X1 rates for casual players or players they want to test the game and full game for the devoted players sounds much more realistic and fair to me.
The problem with the L2 economy is something a lot of people are unable to see, either because they don't want to or are unable to.
How many pieces of gear go for 300 million? 700 million? 1.6 billion?
It's quite obvious from reading the rest of the posts that these amounts are impossible to earn simply from killing mobs. Then we must ask ourselves, where does all this money come from if the only way to earn money is by killing mobs.
7 years of botting is the answer. Those players who attest to "playing the market" are just trading seven years worth of accumulated bot money and items back and forth with each other in the same way that property is traded back and forth during a housing bubble. The bubble collapses when the market realizes that there is no final buyer for the overinflated prices and they were the ones left holding the hot potato. There have been a couple of collapses in the Lineage 2 market over the years, some of them being completely unexplainable such as the recent S crystal collapse. Most of those collapses happen because a new level of gear is introduced, making what was the former top level of gear essentially worthless for anyone who is not of that particular equipment grade.
I will give you an example. On Thursday evening there was a Vesper Buster being sold for 90 million adena. Wow 90 million for a Vesper Buster, that's a ridiculous bargain. Arbitrager A comes along, sees this weapon for 90 mil, compares the price to the their price sheet and sees they can get more, so they buy it for 90, put up a sell shop for 100 million and go to bed thinking "I am a genius". Later that night arbitrager B comes along, sees 100 million, knows she can get at least 110 million, so she buys it and sets up a shop for 110million and goes to bed thinking herself a genius. On Friday morning arbitrager C, who is in Euro time, comes along, sees this Vesper Buster for 110 million and knows he can get 120, so he buys it and sets up shop for 120 million thinking he is a genius. This process repeats itself until Saturday night comes along and the Vesper Buster is now in a sell shop for 150 million. The end result of all this is that the arbitragers raised the price of this item through the creation of artificial demand.
These players aren't doing anything particularly difficult, and they certainly aren't doing anything complicated or that requires great intelligence or very much time and they most certainly are not doing anything which benefits the rest of the Lineage 2 community. In fact they are actually harming the rest of the Lineage 2 community by creating artificial demand which maintains a high price level on many pieces of equipment which would be quite a bit smaller if final buyers (by final buyers I mean the people who are buying the piece of equipment with the intention of using it to kill ****) were directly matched with initial sellers.
Yet they continue to pat themselves on the back and say this is the only way to play the game, and that this should always be the only way to play the game. As their great market game is only made possibly by 24/7 botting supplying them with huge hordes of cash they could not have possibly earned themselves by farming mobs, they are essentially saying that the only way to play the game is by botting either directly or indirectly.
At this point, there has been so much botting done in the past, and the devs have set the mat requirements of higher grade gear so ridiculously high compared to pitiful drop chances and amounts (for everything except thread which has no use) on top of shot costs which make it improbable to earn a profit in groups, that it is quite impossible to fix without blowing up the entire system and starting from scratch.
They would need to remove all currency players currently hold, find a way to quickly identify and ban tne very few remaining bots, remove shots, increase drop rates, reduce mat requirements, add 100% recipies and get rid of ancient adena. Except for the removal of ancient adena, none of this will ever happen as it would too drastically change an aging game and ruin an old friend whose presence we've come to depend on.
Ellisande, I'm not going to quote you, the note was too long. But I agree 100%.
However, at this point, there's little profit in botting, and the legits who never botted have quit the game as unplayable in droves. When I said 6 servers, that's a gross exaggeration, since I forgot about how many servers had merged before that (Gustin with Hindenmith into Phoenix for example).
And this tide isn't turning... there ARE still legits left that can quit. But that's not the problem. The problem is we are not going to retain new players at this rate either.
The fatalistic attitude on this thread blows my mind. As time consuming as this game is, the very fact that you are all addicted to it still... means that you'd rather see it die on it's own so you can't play anymore, rather than want it to keep going? When I can't take the grind anymore, I like the idea that I can stop for a while and come back.
If they dramatically upped the adena drops, it would not die. Those with the cash already do not need to farm the adena. Those without it would be able to afford more. And while it MAY lead to a bit of inflation, it would make mats and recipes viable again, and dwarves useful again. Dwarfs and making items is the offset for higher cost goods in the market.
The deflation in the market right now means goods are more affordable... but when the reason for it is because many sellers are unable to move their goods at all, the economy is at risk of a standstill. People can't buy their next level gears til they can sell their last. More are more people simply opt out by quitting.
That addicted players want this is what I don't understand.
You could easily afford D and C grade gear just by leveling, and it was used all the way up to 60+ levels too. The key was that slower leveling, and no soul shot spam. In addition, the costs were kept in check because most of the D and C grade gear was available from NPC's.
What threw the balance out of whack was the addition of B grade gear. The alternative methods to obtain B grade gear (Giants Cave quests) was pretty much a failure. Also the failure rate to craft also made B grade rare, so the costs sky rocketed. And given that the PVP side of L2 is competitive, many players felt they had to obtain B grade gear at any cost, which turned out to be self destructive towards the overall health of the game. Before B grade as I mentioned above, it was the norm to see people using C grade full plate all the way to 75.
There is a theory floating out there that soul shot spam to reach the higher levels as quickly as possible is a better way to make adena in the long run. The reason being you could participate, and play in the market for key items once reaching 70+. But after further inspection, a lot of key mats are picked up from levels 1-70, so I would argue it is in the best interest of players to NOT level as fast as possible.
Playing the market is a good way to make adena, but it requires a good foundation of it to begin with to buy and sell.
Here is the problem I am seeing with the faster leveling for newbies currently.
It is not just an adena shortage, but also a mat shortage happening as a result. The game was designed for all levels of players to participate and contribute. Low level mats obtained by lower level players bought by higher level players with the greater adena flow to work with. That way the adena is spread around throughout the game evenly.
If it was just an adena shortage, just like it was in C1, and C2, most people could deal with it by CRAFTING. But mats are no longer abundant, and it is no longer worth crafting because of the high cost of mats.
To fix this, I think that an introduction of greater amount of mats into newbie quests and adena is the way to go.
I don't like the idea of increased adena drops from mobs/NPC's because that would quickly cause massive inflation to the game, especially with crystal prices, despite the cost being somewhat anchored by NPC prices, they tend to float higher than the base line price due to adena being thrown around.
But mats are no longer abundant, and it is no longer worth crafting because of the high cost of mats.
Hmm, yesterday I sold crapload of orichalcum, leonard and adamantine to an NPC store, because the only buy shop in Aden was buying below NPC... so much for not enough mats and high prices :P
And yes, crafting is no longer worth for me, because there are other people, who craft and sell for affordable prices, so why risk failure.
No that much the 10m in 2 hours but the 40 wind stons in 2 hours....
40 stones times 9 man party equal 360 wind stones in 2 hours .....
Im guess everybody get around 40 stons in party set by turn....
Cool story isn't?
correct Art is xping at DVC/LOA chain killing Kariks as those are the only mobs in the Cave that drops vorpal armor.. those mobs are end game mage party or a very strong end game melee group.
the real problem with adena is that all the people with it are smart and control the prices of the things that everyone without it need. therefore the people with adena get richer and the people without it struggle to get by.
The options for some were to get lucky during events or rmt....but its impossible for any competitive gamer to jump into a 7 year old game and expect to be anywhere close to competitive anytime soon.
Thats the rub and the downfall. there is no competition because the game is controlled already.
The new update should offer incentives for everyone with instanced drops and eliminate the market system(go to in-game auction) which should make it easier and fair.
I just hope it doesnt turn into where every mob killed drops full armor or weapon drops and adena is what really is whats sought after :(
actually that would transform the economy in a very interesting way. it would mean players trying to barter items would need to trade/shout all the time and be online 24/7
i don't think it would be a very helpful thing without a re-vamped interface for trading or an item swap auction house with no tax.
but i like the idea :) most original thinking i've seen in game yet.
I have to agree that one of the biggest issues with the game is lack of ability to get Adena. It is a huge issue, especially for the "average player" (if there is such a thing), roughly meaning a person having a fairly responsible profession working 40-60 hours a week with some responsibility (or a student, also working 20-40 hours a week - as most students do).
This is not the case for those who don't work during the day, and have many, many hours to devote to the game - and have many accounts and other resources to "produce" adena (i.e., being high-level, in a mid-top clan, with many resources available - and demands on players).
For the average person - you just can't make adena, unless the game becomes a major focus for your time. That's not a viable course of action (COA) for 99.99% of people out there - certainly not new players, or old players coming back.
It used to be you could make adena in the game by crafting, etc., and you could get decent drops here and there to get decent equipment. That's certainly not the case anymore with crafting, and not for drops (unless you're in a top clan doing top raids - and lets face, we all know how players get/got into those clans).
The game itself is truly an amazing experience. Say what you will, after playing now for 7 years (with several breaks in their for work/family), nothing else even comes close to the LII game experience. Amazing graphics, great story line and depth (okay, not everything matches up - but come on, there is a lot time and effort put forth there - quite a good read, actually), great gameplay/interface/skills, amazing gear now - much better variety and options than previously, so many new hunting areas and raids (gotta luv raids), amazing community (lotta jokers, but overall just super peeps), and great clans.
Sure - few things need work, but a lot has been fixed. Very few bots left (thank gawd), much better handle on RMT than before, and GMs (Moxie and Sace anyways) are really responsive, etc. Do wish they'd fix the "programs" for PvP, 'cause makes it impossible to win against them, no matter how skilled you are. But seriously, that's gotta been a near impossible task to fix.
I must say the new "Hero's Chest" is an AWESOME step in the right direction for getting good gear - probably the biggest problem in the game with Adena. OFC, there are a few bugs - but think what a huge event this is, and what a benefit to new players! That's really a huge step forward. I asked for tech support to add the new character (last night available - they extended it to 12:00am on May 5th!), and they (NCSoft) was actually great about this.
And, BTW, I really like the "Red" screen. OFC Red is my favorite (red and orange - orange would be too much) color. It's a pretty cool effect.
We'll see what happens after 90-days, etc. Will new players (and old players coming back) be frustrated with not being able to get good gear, not get adena while so many others have so much, and no good way to make Adena now for average players? I think that may be the case, unless NCSoft works to fix this - with better Adena drops, and other full drops (not top items, but good items that can be sold - and an infusion into the market place with much more adean available). I'm sure it will increase the market prices, at least briefly, but the end result would be more new players staying and more returning players staying - - and word-of-mouth advertising that you can actually get good gear [still with work], so staying is worth it (even though all the uber Adena horders will obviously complain) - so end up saving the game that we like so much.
NCSoft has the capability to do this - to fix the "Adena Problem". They fixed the bot problem, mostly fixed the leveling problem. Now, if they could just fix the Adena / Gear problem (would make getting crystals, pots, just fun stuff that makes the game more enjoyable), we'd have one heck of a game which would have a much better prognosis for sticking around awhile longer.
I have to agree that one of the biggest issues with the game is lack of ability to get Adena. It is a huge issue, especially for the "average player" (if there is such a thing), roughly meaning a person having a fairly responsible profession working 40-60 hours a week with some responsibility (or a student, also working 20-40 hours a week - as most students do).
Dunno if you understand that as an average player, but there are several spots where a solo players could do around 1.3m adena/hour, solo without supports
Dunno if you understand that as an average player, but there are several spots where a solo players could do around 1.3m adena/hour, solo without supports
Dunno if you understand that as an average player, but there are several spots where a solo players could do around 1.3m adena/hour, solo without supports
but you need 150mill for a S wep and you soon out level these spots and then they go blue and bang goes the drops then you'r stuck nothing you can kill and no drops to get the next level wep and armor
Dunno if you understand that as an average player, but there are several spots where a solo players could do around 1.3m adena/hour, solo without supports
I want to know too.
We were talking about B and A grade. Where can an unbuffed dagger or BD or SWS or lets see, everything but mage (most mages too), solo for 1.3 mil an hour in common gear which is all they can afford? Heck, I'll go test it in common gear, I want to see this spot.
moneyproblem is kinda big... i've been lvling from 61 to 76 and i got 14 million adena... i need over 250 million for full dynasty... so i think the drop rate of adena should be increased dramaticly so that players have e chance of buying their armour instead of earning money by spoiling and crafting and lvling other chars to 76 just to get enough money to buy one dynasty set...
We were talking about B and A grade. Where can an unbuffed dagger or BD or SWS or lets see, everything but mage (most mages too), solo for 1.3 mil an hour in common gear which is all they can afford? Heck, I'll go test it in common gear, I want to see this spot.
Around the mage guild in Giran, especially at night ;)
I have been playing on and off since beta, I am a 52 spellhowler. The only reason that I have the gear that I do is because my brother has a level 80 so he has given me plenty of adena and gear. He no longer plays though and I've just come back to the game after a break and am really struggling to make adena. It seems impossible! Are there any good spots to farm at 52? I am very unfamiliar with this game outside of leveling solo.
moneyproblem is kinda big... i've been lvling from 61 to 76 and i got 14 million adena...
That does not seem fit specialy for a mage in that level range. You should be spending on many things apart from shots in order to net only 14M ..
Where did you XP ? FOD has a couple of quests that should net you some mats -> NPC. Pavel is a good place also, has some stone drops. Even if XP'ing outside Godard for so many levels you should have gotten at least 4-5 common a-grade drops. 14M seems to low for all these levels. How long did it took you ? Only if you XP with full vit + Nevit's on all that levels would (?) explain the low amount you gathered.
Please ppl don't forget, you cant level extremely fast and gather insane amount of adena at the same time (unless fidling with market). You can't have both, it's either one or another. You level very fast, low adena, you level very slow, high adena.
As many suggested b4 me, the game has 2 grinds at the moment, Adena and XP. The only real issue is that nowadays it allows you to level extremely fast and some players really overlook the Adena Grind. They keep spending their very low adena reserves for misc stuff they wont need or use for long. They tend to neglect small amounts that accumulate to huge ones like buying shots, wrong or unneeded teleports, worthless stockpiled mats etc etc.
Even some silly quests regarding rewards tend to accumulate, there are some ones that you can run all the time when you XP in a place and even the reward / mob is very low, they also tend to accumulate because you have to kill 10.000 mobs untill you leave the area.
I am very unfamiliar with this game outside of leveling solo.
There lies your problem, and the problem of other ppl.
This is not supposed to be played solo. Get into a clan to help you, make friends, play support, etc.
M
That does not seem fit specialy for a mage in that level range. You should be spending on many things apart from shots in order to net only 14M ..
Where did you XP ? FOD has a couple of quests that should net you some mats -> NPC. Pavel is a good place also, has some stone drops. Even if XP'ing outside Godard for so many levels you should have gotten at least 4-5 common a-grade drops. 14M seems to low for all these levels. How long did it took you ? Only if you XP with full vit + Nevit's on all that levels would (?) explain the low amount you gathered.
i lvled with 900% xp... and 100% adena, thats the problem... 450% xp + double xp/sp week... and i didnt get so much drop and i didnt do quests.. but i still want lineage to think about raising the adena just as much as they raise the xp... i lvled in FoD. and i used money on shots and 2 mill on the fresh milk buff.. i used at least 10m on shots i think.. but i thought i should get more money than that.. the drops is only 1000-3000 adena per mob.
Or are you guys only gonna stop when there is a "Look, it's raining adena" event?
Then they will be crying about how much everything suddenly started to cost. If you make a gear rain, they will cry that everyone but them has +6 sets... and so on, and so forth.
And if you standardize everyone's gear, they will still cry that it's unfair that someone is better skilled in the game than them.
And even if you make player's skills irrelevant, they will cry that the random is not on their side.
Then they will be crying about how much everything suddenly started to cost. If you make a gear rain, they will cry that everyone but them has +6 sets... and so on, and so forth.
And if you standardize everyone's gear, they will still cry that it's unfair that someone is better skilled in the game than them.
And even if you make player's skills irrelevant, they will cry that the random is not on their side.
Stop thinking increased adena drops is gonna fix it.
You have more adena = ppl charge more adena from you.
Only reason things are cheap now, is coz everyone is low on adena.
No.
Having better drop rates,like X2 or X3,helps very much with covering expenses for grind,since prices for things we need to buy from npcs such as spirit ores,s crys,potions ect.. remain the same and ofc teleportation fees remain the same.
Ofc,it means that you will do get some kind of drop if you grind in a place 4-5 hours every day and this HUGE to make a legit player not stay behind from botters!
Botters were having drops because they were online 24/7 to get all the items droped on random timings-meaning you stay in a spot 4 hours and get nothing,you go there some other day stay same hours and you get 2 small drops like stones or ls,you grind in this spot for some months,you will get the small drops and some full drop.By raising rates,grinding for legit player makes a sense.
By making your own drops,you also can take part in market,if prices are higher you also sell high,if lower you follow,but the fact is you have SOMETHING TO SELL PEOPLE ARE ASKING TO BUY.
Nowdays,even if you are on a party with cc for raids you cant get drop to sell for money.
You get Tezza drops that are all worthless(since mobs on fos drop the books easily),exept when it drops a vorpal armor piece.Vesper armors,almost nobody wants them because of stats,vesper weapons,all people have allready made them years ago,crys for sa,almost all clans can do tezza so prices are down.
Zaken mostly gives bsoe and brez that have lost their value since any player 78+ in a clan will find party for Zaken,some moirai light piece that noone buys,some moirai heavy piece that has some chance to be sold,since new players lf ready attributed full sets to buy that are cheaper than getting sealed set and attribute it yourself.
Tiat is bugged,so nothing from him.
Freya many times drops just 2 ls and a piece of armor that may be useless.Even if she drops necklace,so few classes in game needed (or noone)that its price became a joke!
Valakas is bugged,Beleth is bugged and Antharas is been farmed 1 time every 1-2 weeks?And he doesnt give anymore 50 drops that all are worthing something to distribued to people that came.
It still amazes me when people think that this game is working as intended when the NA Population is so small; this is even more evident with the Hero Chest Event. So many posts mentioned a person's multiple accounts and the fact the chest was only on "2 of my 4 accounts".... Don't people get it? There is the problem with L2 and Adena...the people who stayed all these years either did so as a "cheating bot with pvp programs running" or as an "addidcted gamer with several accounts". This is not the recipe for the everyday, working dude that just wants to play a game for a while after work or when the kids have gone to sleep. All this advice for making adena comes from people that fall into either of these 2 groups of long time players.
Just imagine if a 79 archer once every 2000 (still an incredibly small %) kills got a full S80 drop as a reward and how that could have changed this game? JUst getting a few pieces of the next grade armor may have kept a few thousand more accounts around. Imagine being rewarded for putting in effort? Not 24/7 effort like the botting ****s that killed L2 but just simple common sense to make the game a little more rewarding. As mentioned earlier, GoD will address this more, but it is certainly too late for NA.
The game is dying - we're down to two servers, and the poplulation continues to fall.
One of the biggest problems is the miniscule amount of adena drops, ways to get it in the game.
Those saying - oh, it's not so bad b/c you just don't know what you're doing - just don't get it. That's probably b/c you have all day to play games, and/or have tons of adena from botting/RMT/in uber clans with botters/former botters/those with tons of Adena from RMT and uber raids. Do you really think most ppl don't get that?
The vast majority of people starting the game or coming back to the game are not going to throw their money or time away on a video game, unless they just don't have anything else worthwhile to do and have money to throw away.
Why do you think only a very, very small amount of new players and players coming back to the game stay very long? The numbers don't lie - and most the people that stay play unbelievable hours (for someone commtted to other things than video games), and have resources from getting tons of adena in the past. Look how many players have 10's of billions of adena in gear on them - those are the ones staying (at least a few years - eventually they won't).
You can either keep pulling the wool over your eyes (and try for everyone else), and just let the game keep slowly dying until L2 meets L1's fate - or face reality. Playing since Prelude (I have only the two accounts, but have been in many clans - Dark/Light, Mercenaries, Syndicate/Mafia, Titans, Qen's clan, Interimo) I might have some idea - though I do only play 10-15 hrs per week.
I do think in many, many ways the game is much, much better. NCSoft has addressed a great many things, and made the game so much better. I think they really have done a great job. But one of the biggest things to address, which seems easily fixable, is somehow increasing amount of Adena available for the someone who doesn't want to make L2 the major focus of their day (or spend a lot of money outside of game on it). That could be done with incresed drops (really - get the almost the same amount for drops at level 72 versus 82 makes sense?), increased rewards for quests, more events for getting rewards, or something like the "Heroe's Chest". And I'm not talking about "Top Gear". Top gear SHOULD be hard to come by - through difficult Raids, etc., that involve big clans, coordination, committment - that makes sense. But gear like what we are getting in the Heroe's Box - particularly at top A and basic S-Grade, that should not be implossibly for an average player to obtain [as well as other items, like stones/crystals, shots, milk, others pots] from either adena drops, raid drops (not super high levels), full-drops (very rare), quests, etc. And this includes mid-level clans too. I've been in low level, high-level, and mid-level clans...many of them, and all until the end of that clan. It's not so easy for a mid-level clan either (level 9 and below).
If you all think it's so easy to to get adena - then why are so many involved in this thread about this being a problem? There's lots of other issues with L2 (programs for PvP for one - which is a pretty hard fix), but this is a relatiely easy fix it would seem. I don't want to see the game slowly fade away, like what's happening with new players and those coming back, and I don't think NCSoft does either [they're really improved things a great deal overall). It's only the elites who keep saying - ahh there's not a problem with adean - because for you few, ofc there is no problem. That doesn't work for everyone else.
If you all think it's so easy to to get adena - then why are so many involved in this thread about this being a problem? There's lots of other issues with L2 (programs for PvP for one - which is a pretty hard fix), but this is a relatiely easy fix it would seem. I don't want to see the game slowly fade away, like what's happening with new players and those coming back, and I don't think NCSoft does either [they're really improved things a great deal overall). It's only the elites who keep saying - ahh there's not a problem with adean - because for you few, ofc there is no problem. That doesn't work for everyone else.
- Raist
I think you might be overestimating the IQ lvl of the general population of L2.
I almost hate to say, but something NCSoft probably knows and no one really wants to talk about (including me). But, I enjoy 95% of the game Lineage II, and want it to stick around - so it's worth mentioning.
GoD sounds like will be a really big issue with RMT, unless some sort of micropurchase type thing is worked.
There are already I'm sure dozens (I know of a few just in my small circle) quitting this game b/c of it.
Here's a scenario that played out recently - in a very small, but very old clan (used to dominate that server).
Player comes back after while. Sees lotta past friends have just uber geat - 10's of billions. Now in a small clan - not a lot of resources.
Get's one of old buffers up to mid-A grade. Rediculous amount of adena needed to get S-grade now. Can't craft to make it, not gonna get from clan (even if join big clan with main - it's been a long time since playing), etc. So, doesn't want to but does a RMT for least amount possible - 100m (is that like $30-40???). Gets infraction - and gear/adena taken. Yet others have 10's of billions of adena in gear. Get's 7 day ban. Conclusion - not worth coming back (knows two more strikes, and out). Closes accounts - goes to another game.
I know of many players who started the game new and went through same scenario. Get part way through A-grade. Seems there no hope to get even sort-of good gear (or get SAs, elements, etc.). Get's busted for a very small RMT - see's everyone else with super gear worth billions in adena. Get's 7-day ban, after losing money and equipment (and spending $30-40 on 100m adena - that's a lot of $$ to many people, especially someone starting out). Talks to everyone else and here's if happens again could get another longer ban or permanently banned. Decides it's not worth it, and quits. I'm sure that happens dozens (if not more) times each month.
You watch - we'll see huge numbers leaving after the "Hero's Chest" event (90 days when all of their weapons are gone.....it's be longer for gear, if they wait and open those), and no way to come even remotely close to getting a good weapon that they been used to using.
Sounds like it will be much, much worse in GoD. The "Elite's" will keep playing - while their small numbers now will keep decreasing. New players will come for awhile, then leave when they figure out how messed up this is - - and older players may also quit, when they find out things are worse than ever. I just hope NCSoft gets this thing fixed. If they and others don't thing this is a big issue - they're fooling themselves, and looks like it will only get worse down the road.
It still amazes me when people think that this game is working as intended when the NA Population is so small; this is even more evident with the Hero Chest Event. So many posts mentioned a person's multiple accounts and the fact the chest was only on "2 of my 4 accounts".... Don't people get it? There is the problem with L2 and Adena...the people who stayed all these years either did so as a "cheating bot with pvp programs running" or as an "addidcted gamer with several accounts". This is not the recipe for the everyday, working dude that just wants to play a game for a while after work or when the kids have gone to sleep. All this advice for making adena comes from people that fall into either of these 2 groups of long time players.
Just imagine if a 79 archer once every 2000 (still an incredibly small %) kills got a full S80 drop as a reward and how that could have changed this game? JUst getting a few pieces of the next grade armor may have kept a few thousand more accounts around. Imagine being rewarded for putting in effort? Not 24/7 effort like the botting ****s that killed L2 but just simple common sense to make the game a little more rewarding. As mentioned earlier, GoD will address this more, but it is certainly too late for NA.
Lald
Those saying - oh, it's not so bad b/c you just don't know what you're doing - just don't get it. That's probably b/c you have all day to play games, and/or have tons of adena from botting/RMT/in uber clans with botters/former botters/those with tons of Adena from RMT and uber raids. Do you really think most ppl don't get that?
I have only one account (I never had more), I play 3-4 hours day excluding saturdays and days when I feel lazy. Never botted or did RMT. I consider myself casual player (though unlike most casuals not clueless about the game).
Somehow I have armor set with 90/120 resists, ATM there are 2 S84 weapons sitting in my inventory (one for sale though) and the only thing I really miss are boss jewels (I have Freya necklace of course). And yes I participate in what you probably mean by "uber raids", but noone invites me to them for my pretty eyes, you know.
Can you explain how did it happen? Cause according to you, guys this is impossible.
yup, what he said. If u play this game more then a year u should realize that developers are not stupid, and it is all designed that way so THEY can make money. Once u accept this fact u will feel much better and less frustrated, like in real life, there are things u cant change. Just make adena the best way YOU know and tell yourself: Hey, im doing the best I can. And I tell you a little secret, making adena is what really keeps ppl in this game.
You watch - we'll see huge numbers leaving after the "Hero's Chest" event (90 days when all of their weapons are gone.....it's be longer for gear, if they wait and open those), and no way to come even remotely close to getting a good weapon that they been used to using.
Sounds like it will be much, much worse in GoD. The "Elite's" will keep playing - while their small numbers now will keep decreasing. New players will come for awhile, then leave when they figure out how messed up this is - - and older players may also quit, when they find out things are worse than ever. I just hope NCSoft gets this thing fixed. If they and others don't thing this is a big issue - they're fooling themselves, and looks like it will only get worse down the road.
Yep. This is EXACTLY what I see happening too.
If NCSoft don't do something NOW about adena before those Hero Boxes poof ... much of their efforts will be for nothing.
Everyone who NEEDED those junky sets with no attributes are going to be left naked in 90 days, and if they did not earn the money necessary for real gear by then, they will quit the game and we will be back to the drawing board.
It is unbelievable to me that NCSoft doesn't see this from the sheer popularity of the Hero boxes. *facepalm*
And for all those saying there is no problem at all... if they don't do anything, one day we will get the same announcement L1 got... and your YEARS and YEARS of saving will vanish along with your toons with 1 email.
If they cannot equip themselves into proper gear (by themselves or with their clannies help) after they have given a 90-day loan of S-grade, are they really needed in the game? What value can they add to their servers?
If they cannot equip themselves into proper gear (by themselves or with their clannies help) after they have given a 90-day loan of S-grade, are they really needed in the game? What value can they add to their servers?
Not all subscriptions are equal. NC Interactive loses more money on those that cannot progress in the game by themselves or with their friends, because those are more willing to contact support.
If they cannot equip themselves into proper gear (by themselves or with their clannies help) after they have given a 90-day loan of S-grade, are they really needed in the game? What value can they add to their servers?
That is most selfish, egoistic and devoid of compassion thing u have ever said. EVERYONE is needed in the game, even such a hipocrit as you. Just because someone fails in the game doesnt mean he is not adding a value to a server. And what is the value by ur means ?? tell me. If you think of how many lvls someone can hit, how much gear he can obtain or how many ppl he can kill then thats hte kind of thinking that got us in to this mess. I know ppl who log in just for the very pleasure of chatting with others and doing some stupid things together, who are you to deny them that.
I have only one account (I never had more), I play 3-4 hours day excluding saturdays and days when I feel lazy. Never botted or did RMT. I consider myself casual player (though unlike most casuals not clueless about the game).
Somehow I have armor set with 90/120 resists, ATM there are 2 S84 weapons sitting in my inventory (one for sale though) and the only thing I really miss are boss jewels (I have Freya necklace of course). And yes I participate in what you probably mean by "uber raids", but noone invites me to them for my pretty eyes, you know.
Can you explain how did it happen? Cause according to you, guys this is impossible.
And btw, I used to play an archer.
Did you get benefit from selling in the market the last years,when RMT was still alive and people were buying without much thoughts?
Name your class,how many years you play L2 and how many years do you pvp and i will tell you if your current economic situation is good enough for gaming or not.
A wc with fully attributed moirai and a s84 weapon+freya thinks hes just fine(and for pve/pvp he is).A dd with similar gear who wants to grind in sv is fine,a dd who wants go loa is not and a dd that wants to have pvps feels really poor.
Sorry everyone, but I Sorrow Reaver will agree, and disagree with you all.
On one hand, I think that GoD's feature of improved drops is a better fix for the economy than improved adena amount being dropped from NPC's.
Krissa does raise an interesting point, and I understand why some are puzzled by Krissa's statement.
As of right now, as a returning player, I am level 37, but I have enough adena saved up to buy common top C weapon, jewels, and armor. I plan on skipping common B grade, and leveling to pick up common A grade. From there, I will save up, but I will not rush given the information coming out of Korean GoD PTR.
But that will give me a solid adena foundation to work with to build up to the higher graded gear, that is not common, but regular (that can be enchanted).
Did you get benefit from selling in the market the last years,when RMT was still alive and people were buying without much thoughts?
Name your class,how many years you play L2 and how many years do you pvp and i will tell you if your current economic situation is good enough for gaming or not.
A wc with fully attributed moirai and a s84 weapon+freya thinks hes just fine(and for pve/pvp he is).A dd with similar gear who wants to grind in sv is fine,a dd who wants go loa is not and a dd that wants to have pvps feels really poor.
I lost A LOT on hyperinflation when RMT was still alive. And even if you missed my previous posts, you can quess by my sig what I play.
A DD instead of Freya/Frint gets AQ. And it is possible to grind in LOA without AQ, Baium and 300 weapon on every DD (though not easy). Also you have many other spots, that actually offer better XP and comparable profit for a party that barely survives in LOA, so use some creativity instead of banging your head against a wall. LOA is top spot designed for top parties. If you're not in one, you should go somewhere else.
As for what gear is required for pvp, it depends who you pvp against. (According to what you say, majority of players cannot afford A-grade, so to win pvp against majority of players you need S-grade max).
If they cannot equip themselves into proper gear (by themselves or with their clannies help) after they have given a 90-day loan of S-grade, are they really needed in the game? What value can they add to their servers?
I missed that post, but it is very important one, for the wisdom it contains.
I just prefer to use shorter sentences, like "go play WOW" ;)
I missed that post, but it is very important one, for the wisdom it contains.
I just prefer to use shorter sentences, like "go play WOW" ;)
There's nothing wise at all about that quote, it's the epitome of stupidity and shortsightedness.
The bottom line is, having more people does not impact the high level players AT ALL, because any change to adena will impact every player across the board. If anything, the rich get even richer because they play more. It DOES impact NCSoft's ability to keep Events running and the game going on.
How do we get more players? The game is so hard, we're down to 2 servers... clearly the current model does not work from a business perspective. If it serves to illustrate anything at all, it's that there's something odd about L2 players in general in North America/EU. We who enjoy this level of grind and dredge have some form of rare mental disorder, because if we invested 1/2 of this energy into something that makes money, we'd possibly be billionaires in real life. Which of the nutcases here, me included, hasn't spent up to 80 hours a week in this game? What activity could we be doing instead that generates real money in the real world?
No, most people are not like us, and if L2 wants more bodies, it's got to become a tad more flexible to attract players with real jobs who can afford to pay the subscription. This game fails because it's designed only for people who have so much time on their hands that they couldn't work a normal job to pay for the game. There's not enough independently wealthy who can play at these insanely time-consuming levels to support the entire company.
To put this in perspective, L1 that just got shut down was 10 years old.
This month we celebrated L2's 7th anniversary. In 3 years, L2 will be as old as L1. Grant you we are getting GOD soon, so hopefully that will be a good reception and a 'new' game that will attract new players. But there's nothing enticing about a game where all you see are awakened toons running around in top gear and you can't even afford the cheapest mid grade armor/weapon at the store after months of playing. People do not play games to feel like failures every day when comparing themselves to their peers. Few people are masochistic enough to pay for a game with no possibility to ever catch up to other players (tho obviously many here do). Making the game easier and more enjoyable affect no one other than the people with limited time, but have 10 credit cards in their wallets.
I quit this game for 4 YEARS, and came back less than a year ago. If I leave again, I don't want to lose everything I spent time acquiring, because I invested a lot of years of my life in mindless obsession when I did play, and my time is worth money to me. I want NCSoft to succeed. I want this game to go on, not for 3 more years but as long as possible, and that can't happen with a dwindling population.
Beyond the sheer rudeness of saying that people who don't have the time to play as we do are too stupid to play, as far as NCSoft is concerned, they are not worth less, they are worth exactly the same subscription $$ as you are.
And fact is, people who don't have much time to play, but continue to pay are worth MORE than we who stress the servers daily, because they don't cost anything at all, but keep the money coming in, to all our benefits. This is a BUSINESS, and the more money a business makes, the more benefit to the consumers in customer retention.
People don't complain more when they aren't on more. Some of the comments on this forum astound me more than anything I see in game.
That is most selfish, egoistic and devoid of compassion thing u have ever said. EVERYONE is needed in the game, even such a hipocrit as you. Just because someone fails in the game doesnt mean he is not adding a value to a server. And what is the value by ur means ?? tell me. If you think of how many lvls someone can hit, how much gear he can obtain or how many ppl he can kill then thats hte kind of thinking that got us in to this mess. I know ppl who log in just for the very pleasure of chatting with others and doing some stupid things together, who are you to deny them that.
*
There's your star for being able to make a post.
Congratulations. A diploma is on its way, as soon as the management gets your email.
Applause everyone, this guy was able to make a post. Let's all congratulate him.
/sarcasm off
Is this the kind of world you wanna live in? Where simple participation of any kind is rewarded, no matter if you succeed or fail?
If we put evolution and darwinism aside, human kind is doomed.
There's nothing wise at all about that quote, it's the epitome of stupidity and shortsightedness.
The bottom line is, having more people does not impact the high level players AT ALL, because any change to adena will impact every player across the board. If anything, the rich get even richer because they play more. It DOES impact NCSoft's ability to keep Events running and the game going on.
How do we get more players? The game is so hard, we're down to 2 servers... clearly the current model does not work from a business perspective. If it serves to illustrate anything at all, it's that there's something odd about L2 players in general in North America/EU. We who enjoy this level of grind and dredge have some form of rare mental disorder, because if we invested 1/2 of this energy into something that makes money, we'd possibly be billionaires in real life. Which of the nutcases here, me included, hasn't spent up to 80 hours a week in this game? What activity could we be doing instead that generates real money in the real world?
No, most people are not like us, and if L2 wants more bodies, it's got to become a tad more flexible to attract players with real jobs who can afford to pay the subscription. This game fails because it's designed only for people who have so much time on their hands that they couldn't work a normal job to pay for the game. There's not enough independently wealthy who can play at these insanely time-consuming levels to support the entire company.
To put this in perspective, L1 that just got shut down was 10 years old.
This month we celebrated L2's 7th anniversary. In 3 years, L2 will be as old as L1. Grant you we are getting GOD soon, so hopefully that will be a good reception and a 'new' game that will attract new players. But there's nothing enticing about a game where all you see are awakened toons running around in top gear and you can't even afford the cheapest mid grade armor/weapon at the store after months of playing. People do not play games to feel like failures every day when comparing themselves to their peers. Few people are masochistic enough to pay for a game with no possibility to ever catch up to other players (tho obviously many here do). Making the game easier and more enjoyable affect no one other than the people with limited time, but have 10 credit cards in their wallets.
I quit this game for 4 YEARS, and came back less than a year ago. If I leave again, I don't want to lose everything I spent time acquiring, because I invested a lot of years of my life in mindless obsession when I did play, and my time is worth money to me. I want NCSoft to succeed. I want this game to go on, not for 3 more years but as long as possible, and that can't happen with a dwindling population.
Beyond the sheer rudeness of saying that people who don't have the time to play as we do are too stupid to play, as far as NCSoft is concerned, they are not worth less, they are worth exactly the same subscription $$ as you are.
And fact is, people who don't have much time to play, but continue to pay are worth MORE than we who stress the servers daily, because they don't cost anything at all, but keep the money coming in, to all our benefits. This is a BUSINESS, and the more money a business makes, the more benefit to the consumers in customer retention.
People don't complain more when they aren't on more. Some of the comments on this forum astound me more than anything I see in game.
For the last time, why do you think increased amounts of adena drops will lead to anything but ppl charging more for items?
And if you weren't so stuck in your own ideas, you would realize the wisdom in Krissa's post, instead of calling it stupidity.
Congratulations. A diploma is on its way, as soon as the management gets your email.
Applause everyone, this guy was able to make a post. Let's all congratulate him.
/sarcasm off
Is this the kind of world you wanna live in? Where simple participation of any kind is rewarded, no matter if you succeed or fail?
If we put evolution and darwinism aside, human kind is doomed.
Since you make reference to Darwin, in what society do we euthanize the unproductive members?
Because by real societal measures, anyone with the time to acquire a massive fortune in a game world is unproductive and should probably be eliminated unless they are already financially set for life? How many dedicated L2 players are financially set for life already?
Rewarding 'any' kind of participation by bringing adena drops up to the SHORTFALL caused by increasing XP rates will not make every player Hero on either server.
Probably no society euthanizes unproductive members, but it has been done hundreds (or thousands) of years ago. And that might have helped us evolve.
Current societies are making ppl passive and rewarding them for doing nothing, expecting someone else to solve all problems. What happens when we run out of "someone else"' ppl?
And your "increasing adena drops" idea is idiotic. Ppl that cant afford armor/weapon/etc today, will still not be able to buy them tomorrow, when ppl raise their prices on account of ppl having more money and being able to pay more.
The reason alot of stuff has gone down in price is too much supply and consumers that don't want the product, while not having enough adena to buy the better products.
Since you make reference to Darwin, in what society do we euthanize the unproductive members?
Because by real societal measures, anyone with the time to acquire a massive fortune in a game world is unproductive and should probably be eliminated unless they are already financially set for life? How many dedicated L2 players are financially set for life already?
Rewarding 'any' kind of participation by bringing adena drops up to the SHORTFALL caused by increasing XP rates will not make every player Hero on either server.
Your previous wall of text, and this post are based on assumption, that you need insane amounts of time to achieve anything in l2.
This assumption is wrong, as L2 doesn't require any more time than any other hobby you might be having. Thus all your reasoning is wrong.
Also, if you think, that all time of a human beeing should be devoted to making money, then you are one with mental disorder maybe. Fortunately most of L2 players, that I know, earn enough money in their regular jobs, to afford for having time for relax or hobby.
For the last time, why do you think increased amounts of adena drops will lead to anything but ppl charging more for items?
And if you weren't so stuck in your own ideas, you would realize the wisdom in Krissa's post, instead of calling it stupidity.
I agree again with Smittie, the prices are going down because adena is scarce, i.e. adena value is increasing as it goes now more to NPCs till there will be an equilibrium, now ppl sell mats to npc store, parts, even full drops, not only common. I know I do, and also do quests for all sorts of useless stuff like the GC quest and getting millions out of NPCs.
D and C grade shots are in shops, but ppl craft them, adena is really increasing in value, but if it would be more, its value will decrease, and prices will go up again, making the items as hard to get as ever.
The only things that are deciding prices in this game is the scarcity of the item, the will of ppl to have it and the value of adena which all point to the way market works.
L2 has a wonderful and self regulating economy that resisted to huge shocks such as adena dupe one. It simply readjusted at a higher level and now is coming back again.
When there will be again trains hunting without shots, then the supply of adena will increase again but that is unlikely to happen because l2 is no so interesting anymore for farmers, RMT is simply too small for that.
M
Current societies are making ppl passive and rewarding them for doing nothing, expecting someone else to solve all problems. What happens when we run out of "someone else"' ppl?
F'ukushima is the brightest example.
P.S. Wtf is with forum auto-censoring the names of Japanese cities and power stations???
I lost A LOT on hyperinflation when RMT was still alive. And even if you missed my previous posts, you can quess by my sig what I play.
A DD instead of Freya/Frint gets AQ. And it is possible to grind in LOA without AQ, Baium and 300 weapon on every DD (though not easy). Also you have many other spots, that actually offer better XP and comparable profit for a party that barely survives in LOA, so use some creativity instead of banging your head against a wall. LOA is top spot designed for top parties. If you're not in one, you should go somewhere else.
As for what gear is required for pvp, it depends who you pvp against. (According to what you say, majority of players cannot afford A-grade, so to win pvp against majority of players you need S-grade max).
So you are a cardinal.And you 'r playing since years,so you were benefit from the quests you could do with your main that were still working and from the money people were spending on buying mats/parts for craft dynasty and go for rare(like ketra recs,blazing swamp q,dino q,gracia instances for ori/ada ect ect).Players that started in this game some months before,dont have any of these.
Your class is 1 of the supports on which all skills work without epics for pve/pvp,freya or tezza neck is enough,(but i often saw cardinals getting valakas from clan,claiming they will do olys for hero,or they will sleep enemys during pvp and nukers not getting :PP)meaning if you 'r active enough you are welcomed in any good party that they will xp you and gear you,you know if a dd with your gear/lvl is welcomed in any good party?
The expenses you make for pve,are the minimum.In most of your xp partys for many lvls you will spam some heals(i lvled a cardinal too ).This means,you are making money any time you enter an xp party and dont lvl with inquistor.
Supports were the easiest classes to lvl/gear untill endgame playing that's why we advised new players to make a support as main.
I agree again with Smittie, the prices are going down because adena is scarce, i.e. adena value is increasing as it goes now more to NPCs till there will be an equilibrium, now ppl sell mats to npc store, parts, even full drops, not only common. I know I do, and also do quests for all sorts of useless stuff like the GC quest and getting millions out of NPCs.
D and C grade shots are in shops, but ppl craft them, adena is really increasing in value, but if it would be more, its value will decrease, and prices will go up again, making the items as hard to get as ever.
The only things that are deciding prices in this game is the scarcity of the item, the will of ppl to have it and the value of adena which all point to the way market works.
L2 has a wonderful and self regulating economy that resisted to huge shocks such as adena dupe one. It simply readjusted at a higher level and now is coming back again.
When there will be again trains hunting without shots, then the supply of adena will increase again but that is unlikely to happen because l2 is no so interesting anymore for farmers, RMT is simply too small for that.
M
Not sure how I feel about you being on my side lol.
People man, do u not hear what Hels is trying to say or are u all on the same drugs as Lindsay Lohan?
Falconek, u play a game up to 4 hours a day? To me that is part time work and not a game; if u cannot "win" with those kind of hours then yes "go play wow". 4 x 6 = 24 x4 = 96 Hours a month in a video game and u consider yourself casual. Jesus, what are the 1-2 hour a night people then? Just visiting?
If 96 hours a month is casual then the hardcores, not bots, but legit people either retired or on disability payments, or rich enough to play must be doing so at least 3 times Falconek's hours.
That population will succeed in this game, GRATZ, YOU WIN L2! But you win alone. Gratz on 2 servers and Gratz on complaining that people cannot make adena. Jesus man Jesus.
So you are a cardinal.And you 'r playing since years,so you were benefit from the quests you could do with your main that were still working
I play cardi since around one year. Before that I was playing an archer.
and from the money people were spending on buying mats/parts for craft dynasty and go for rare(like ketra recs,blazing swamp q,dino q,gracia instances for ori/ada ect ect).Players that started in this game some months before,dont have any of these.
LOL do I look like someone who would farm this crazy quest on varka, especially when this place was full of bots? I did lvl 2 and that's all. And today there are other means of making adena for those who want.
Your class is 1 of the supports on which all skills work without epics for pve/pvp,freya or tezza neck is enough,(but i often saw cardinals getting valakas from clan,claiming they will do olys for hero,or they will sleep enemys during pvp and nukers not getting :PP) meaning if you 'r active enough you are welcomed in any good party that they will xp you and gear you
My class is one that requires best possible gear and anything that makes it survive more. Ask any pvp party.
And try to find *good* party on cardi if you're not 83+ with at least freya/frint. GL.
,you know if a dd with your gear/lvl is welcomed in any good party?
When I was playing archer (that is for around 3 years) I was making parties. Actually I was constant leader for around a year. Yes, on archer. With crappy gear.
The expenses you make for pve,are the minimum.In most of your xp partys for many lvls you will spam some heals(i lvled a cardinal too ).This means,you are making money any time you enter an xp party and dont lvl with inquistor.
Expenes for shots are meaningless, if you play in good party you will be on + with adena no matter what class you play. Seriously, I didn't collect adena dropping from mobs.
Supports were the easiest classes to lvl/gear untill endgame playing that's why we advised new players to make a support as main.
And still there are not enough supporting classes. Knowing these facts (1: supports easiest to level 2: Not enough supports in game) what can you conclude about IQ of average L2 player? I already stated my opinion about players leveling DD without having means to do so in one of previous posts.
Changing game to compensate for bad choices made by players is called dumbing down, and I'm against dumbing down.
I play cardi since around one year. Before that I was playing an archer.
LOL do I look like someone who would farm this crazy quest on varka, especially when this place was full of bots? I did lvl 2 and that's all. And today there are other means of making adena for those who want.
My class is one that requires best possible gear and anything that makes it survive more. Ask any pvp party.
And try to find *good* party on cardi if you're not 83+ with at least freya/frint. GL.
When I was playing archer (that is for around 3 years) I was making parties. Actually I was constant leader for around a year. Yes, on archer. With crappy gear.
Expenes for shots are meaningless, if you play in good party you will be on + with adena no matter what class you play. Seriously, I didn't collect adena dropping from mobs.
And still there are not enough supporting classes. Knowing these facts (1: supports easiest to level 2: Not enough supports in game) what can you conclude about IQ of average L2 player? I already stated my opinion about players leveling DD without having means to do so in one of previous posts.
Changing game to compensate for bad choices made by players is called dumbing down, and I'm against dumbing down.
From this post i can understand that
-You do agree game cant supply to dds the means they need to evolve their toons.You call the new players that make dd as main dumbs,so L2 for you is a racist thing were if you had the privilege to be born before 2007 in a family that had giran castle,you have the right to play any class you want,if you are born after 2010 and your longest trip was to dion town,you must sit down untill some noble kind persons throw you some piece of bread?
-You call your class(cardinal)unable to farm quests like varka,so you admit that the good quests in game couldnt been farmed by poor players or support classes,here we go again to point 0---nothing that gives money in the game is designed to be farmed with basic gear or not super strong class/party-----(or bots),making the legit players not able to get adena and the ebayers-boters who became uber geared-made strong partys,been able to farm them.
-You say your class requires the best possible gear to stay alive,if you say that then what nukers should say?who need stay alive and kill others to keep you alive too?Since im PL in pvp clan,i know anyone would recruit a 84+cardinal(i assume you are since you said you wear freya),even if this cardi had dynasty jewles and a homu acumen.He can heal like that,and if he dies all the time in pvp,its partys fault that dont pvp well,NO party would recruit a nuker 84+ in dynasty gear.
-So,you do agree with me that game never provided the ammount of adena/items it should and its even worse now,but you accept that as normal?
Crafting needs to become relevant again, and L2 might even become a barter economy with the introduction of GoD, but that is purely my hypothesis on the information we have.
-So,you do agree with me that game never provided the ammount of adena/items it should and its even worse now,but you accept that as normal?
Yes, that is normal. If everyone would run around in 85/80/80/80 top gear +20 and weapon +100 with antharas and valakas not picked from the ground in elpy hunting areas because they drop 2 a piece, who would play that game ?
There are privates 1000x, how long does the average joe play there ?
Its value is given by the 3 factors i gave, value of adena is one of them but is irrelevant. No matter how much adena will be in the game, the items will be as hard to get as ever, even worse, if there is more adena, then the mats will be worthless in npc store as well as other drops, even full, so would be even harder to monetize hunting.
If it isnt hard to get its worthless, look at the bots and how long till they are super bored and leave the game, average life is 6 months or less, been there, done that, buy-buy (adena), write me soon ! There are exceptions, some are maniac with CvC would do that all day and night long, but soon they will have to fight same ppl all the time, same party setup, or even nobody because the "enemy" quits tired of losing or winning all the time or plain bored of something which becomes meaningless through repetition and when everything depends on how they set up some script or plain luck.
M
People man, do u not hear what Hels is trying to say or are u all on the same drugs as Lindsay Lohan?
Falconek, u play a game up to 4 hours a day? To me that is part time work and not a game; if u cannot "win" with those kind of hours then yes "go play wow". 4 x 6 = 24 x4 = 96 Hours a month in a video game and u consider yourself casual. Jesus, what are the 1-2 hour a night people then? Just visiting?
If 96 hours a month is casual then the hardcores, not bots, but legit people either retired or on disability payments, or rich enough to play must be doing so at least 3 times Falconek's hours.
That population will succeed in this game, GRATZ, YOU WIN L2! But you win alone. Gratz on 2 servers and Gratz on complaining that people cannot make adena. Jesus man Jesus.
Lald
+++++++++++1
Reading several posts really freak me out!
We loose time from our lifes to read and answer forum posts-not everyone is in a quite office,free to troll in forums untill time to go home-and we do that to help the game we love stay alive and help in some way new players with opinions and infos.
The people that behave like that,not only are responsible about their personal situation(since their contribution is talk smart and play it cool having answers ready for anyone and anything)but they also dont let others efforts grow and lead to some conclusions by keep spaming in any thread.
Yes, that is normal. If it isnt hard to get its worthless, look at the bots and how long till they are super bored and leave the game, average life is 6 months or less, been there, done that, buy-buy (adena), write me soon ! There are exceptions, some are maniac with CvC would do that all day and night long, but soon they will have to fight same ppl all the time, same party setup, or even nobody because the "enemy" quits tired of losing or winning all the time or plain bored of something which becomes meaningless through repetition and when everything depends on how they set up some script or plain luck.
M
And it is normal to you for a game to have so impossible to get gear even if a player spends more than 8 hours in game for years(not impossible to get in every update,but impossible to get in all the years that you will play),that only bots 24/7 can raise that money after 6+ months,then play like top pvp players,get bored after 6 months of wining all,leave the game by selling their toons and their epics to other smart guys that will come to take the place of the uber player,or the ones that arent bored, stay in game forever,with all the bilions they made on their boting years,ruling game?
Probably no society euthanizes unproductive members, but it has been done hundreds (or thousands) of years ago. And that might have helped us evolve.
Current societies are making ppl passive and rewarding them for doing nothing, expecting someone else to solve all problems. What happens when we run out of "someone else"' ppl?
And your "increasing adena drops" idea is idiotic. Ppl that cant afford armor/weapon/etc today, will still not be able to buy them tomorrow, when ppl raise their prices on account of ppl having more money and being able to pay more.
The reason alot of stuff has gone down in price is too much supply and consumers that don't want the product, while not having enough adena to buy the better products.
Wow... you really do have trouble reading anything but your own writing.
Sticking to subject - who brought up Darwin on a subject about increasing Adena in L2? Oh yah, you did.
People are passive and expect rewards for nothing relates how exactly to increasing adena drops from mobs? We now get 4.5x the XP, and 1x the Adena we USED TO in previous Chronicles. This is both logical and obvious.
People raising prices for their goods if adena drops more? Can you read? In every post it's mentioned, we've been talking about STORE BOUGHT GEAR that was put into the store. THAT is what new players cannot afford. TALLUM ARMOR. MIRACLE SWORD. Who CARES what people raise their prices to? No one with a brain is going to pay 50 mil for a miracle sword when the store sells it for 20 mil.
WHAT inflation? On the level of the new players coming into this game, it allows them to hunt. It's WHY that gear was put into the store, so the prices of BASIC requirements was not subject to the whims of those who control the market. They can farm enchants for it, and feel accomplished to put it on themselves. They can level the SA stones for it themselves. They can farm the AA for the SA themselves. That's not waiting for handouts, that's a proactive player having fun. WHY should they buy overpriced items from people like YOU?
Hyperinflation is not remotely relevant for what we are talking about. It's not relevant for the L2 economy as a whole anyway UNLESS you are an adena seller for real money. If that's the case, then I totally see why you would be complaining, because players having more money means a huge drop in business for you.
The reason it wouldn't affect the L2 economy is because the money generated and spent at STORES VANISH from the economy, it's NOT money being circulated.
Money spent on Soul Ores, money spent on Spirit Ores, money spent on Eisenhad waters, battle symbols, etc etc, the things that allow people to get groups and play their class as expected, painful especially for lowbies, are MONEY SINKS that DO NOT come back into the economy.
At higher levels, people with more money skill enchant more... that money DOES NOT come back into the economy, it's a SINK, because it just poofs from your Skill enchant window and never recirculates.
In Prelude, we didn't have any comparable sinks like that, WHILE giving every player 4.5x the adena per XP compared to now. My argument is to PUT the adena to XP ratio BACK to what it was when we started playing this game.
-You do agree game cant supply to dds the means they need to evolve their toons.
No, I said, that there are too many DDS and not enough supports in game.
You call the new players that make dd as main dumbs
If someone decides to roll overplayed class and then wonders why he can't get party, then he is dumb.
,so L2 for you is a racist thing were if you had the privilege to be born before 2007 in a family that had giran castle,you have the right to play any class you want,if you are born after 2010 and your longest trip was to dion town,you must sit down untill some noble kind persons throw you some piece of bread?
No I didn't say that. I said, that if you decide to roll overplayed class, then you will have trouvle to get party and earn adena.
-You call your class(cardinal)unable to farm quests like varka,
No, I wrote, that when varka was worth doing I was playing archer, and I wrote, that I didn't have cardi at that time.
so you admit that the good quests in game couldnt been farmed by poor players or support classes,here
No, I said, that Varka was crappy quest. I could farm varka on archer but for me it was waste of time. I was farming HB on archer.
we go again to point 0---nothing that gives money in the game is designed to be farmed with basic gear
You are wrong.
making the legit players not able to get adena
You are wrong, I'm legit player, as well as my party and we make enough adena to constantly improve ourselves.
and the ebayers-boters who became uber geared-made strong partys,been able to farm them
Botters and ebayers should be getting banned.
-You say your class requires the best possible gear to stay alive,if you say that then what nukers should say?who need stay alive and kill others to keep you alive too?
Healers are first target in pvp, you don't know that?
Since im PL in pvp clan,i know anyone would recruit a 84+cardinal
That's what I said, cardi need to be 83+
even if this cardi had dynasty jewles and a homu acumen.
When they are desperated, yes. Also you wrote it, and you still don't get why it's stupid to roll overplayed class (DD) and smart to roll underplayed class (cardi). If there were as many cardis as now dds and as many dds as now cardis situation would be opposite.
]He can heal like that,
Nope
and if he dies all the time in pvp,its partys fault that dont pvp well
Party and cardi himself can't do much, if cardi dies in 2-3 hits.
,NO party would recruit a nuker 84+ in dynasty gear.
We have May 2011. Any char 84+ in dynasty gear is a fail, unless it is rare or 120 set.
-So,you do agree with me that game never provided the ammount of adena/items it should and its even worse now,but you accept that as normal?
No, quote me where I said it.
HELLOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Learn to read with understending, before you reply to me.
People man, do u not hear what Hels is trying to say or are u all on the same drugs as Lindsay Lohan?
Falconek, u play a game up to 4 hours a day? To me that is part time work and not a game; if u cannot "win" with those kind of hours then yes "go play wow". 4 x 6 = 24 x4 = 96 Hours a month in a video game and u consider yourself casual. Jesus, what are the 1-2 hour a night people then? Just visiting?
If 96 hours a month is casual then the hardcores, not bots, but legit people either retired or on disability payments, or rich enough to play must be doing so at least 3 times Falconek's hours.
That population will succeed in this game, GRATZ, YOU WIN L2! But you win alone. Gratz on 2 servers and Gratz on complaining that people cannot make adena. Jesus man Jesus.
Lald
LOL! Thank you, every time I come back to this thread, I am gobsmacked, and don't know if I should laugh or cry at the posts... wow.
We don't have ANY problem with adena drops... that's why there's almost no one left in the game, and most people quit out of frustration due to adena (or loss of adena, or theft of adena, or hacking of adena, or banned because of adena).
Several people posted examples of not one but entire clans worth of people they knew who quit, and why. Maybe it's all the adena sellers in game posting that there isn't a problem so they can sell their adena for cash?
I can't fathom that every single person in this game doesn't see the problem if they spend 1 minute thinking about it.
We don't have ANY problem with adena drops... that's why there's almost no one left in the game, and most people quit out of frustration due to adena (or loss of adena, or theft of adena, or hacking of adena, or banned because of adena).
Did you made any research. Show me any source that can be used as a proof that people quit because of having not enough adena.
I can claim, that people quit because they don't like Freya logo, and my claim is exactly as valid, as yours, unless you provide proofs.
I confirm what Falconek says, if the cardi isn't well geared, she gets shot very quickly. It's a priority to max elements on cardi's armor. C-Grade weapon (mysterious sword, not homunkulus if you want to save on bsps) is good for pve, but in pvp it's always a good thing if the cardi can trance, block shield and ww.
Also if you pvp, as everybody and their sister has an annoying debuff, it costs a lot to cleanse. Currently, cardi's job seems to be more of a debuff remover than healer (CP pots blocking regular hits and criticals going too fast for heals on a lot of classes).
That said, I agree with Smittie that if you put an adena fountain in the game, it only moves the problem elsewhere. Inflation never helps.
Maybe the problem is that the current system gives more adenas to solo players than to full parties in most areas. LOA isn't really an answer because to go there you already need good gear. ;)
But seriously, the late changes of xp areas made them a good way to earn adenas in solo. Too bad I don't have much time to solo on my WL sub anymore. It was easy money + stones.
PS: I'll add that not only pvp cardi isn't the cheap leecher it can be in 80- pve, but you mustn't forget that it's a class that always gets very few event items when it's supposed to drop from mobs. And it's a great source of income, particularily for new players. I don't mention the old quests that you could farm better solo/duo and not with a bishop back at the toi/beast farm/coins/blazing swamp era. Each time, the less you were, the more you'd get, meaning that if a bishop was needed, that party was full enough to get the minimum of drops.
Of course cardi's expense in full party wasn't near GK's own. Smoking SSS in full party back then wasn't very lucrative.
No I didn't say that. I said, that if you decide to roll overplayed class, then you will have trouvle to get party and earn adena.
No, I said, that Varka was crappy quest. I could farm varka on archer but for me it was waste of time. I was farming HB on archer.
You are wrong, I'm legit player, as well as my party and we make enough adena to constantly improve ourselves
Also you wrote it, and you still don't get why it's stupid to roll overplayed class (DD) and smart to roll underplayed class (cardi). If there were as many cardis as now dds and as many dds as now cardis situation would be opposite.
Party and cardi himself can't do much, if cardi dies in 2-3 hits.
We have May 2011. Any char 84+ in dynasty gear is a fail, unless it is rare or 120 set.
From your answers i can check these
-Healer in party dies in 2-3 hits if not well geared and i repeat, yes, thats true but not always in a ranged party that knows how to move his way.DD not well geared not only will die in 2-3 hits but wont be able to kill anyone before he dies,so it's like he doesnt exist in party and thats why no constant recruits a dd with 150 weap/ basic armor/jewles but any party recruits a cardinal with less than that(we assume that while he stays in constant,he will get some drops ofc,we wont leave him for ever poorely geared).
-You didnt even have to make any of the quests in game since you were archer and able to farm the Helbound with your party when the drops were worthing a lot!Ty very much,were you playing in a populated server?Cause HB was farmed in top servers only from top partys that were pvping/pk all others.You had the option of many servers and you were playing in an empty one?having all areas for you?Now only 2 servers in game.
Other classes-like me,nuker-couldnt farm HB,isnt that unfair in game?You made all that money because an update was full of money if you had the right class/party and for the rest of players it was the last sellings of varka recs.Again,what option a new player has like the one you had,or even the ones i had?
-Still isnt clear what you want to prove.That you as a legit player who was an archer and PL of an archer party made good adena in HB update,but when drops stoped being valuable and archer became LOL,you reroled in BP and this prooves game works fine?
And that players must always watch which classes are needed in game and play those classes to have party for good areas?
I dissagree with that.Here its a game,its not your real life that you need to study something you may not care or have a talent for it,to find a job that you may not like at all,just because you need to make a living.
In a game,you PAY your real money and/or SPENT your real time to have fun!
FUN FUN FUN ! You choose a class that will be FUN for YOU to play and you have all the right to do that since the game you bought has all these classes to select the one you prefer to play!
If some class is not developed enough to be able to find party,or in every update the areas/quests that are introduced as the tools from which the players will make adena /gear arent suitable for ALL classes,then it is not you that you choosed bad class,its developers bad designing of current update!
I confirm what Falconek says, if the cardi isn't well geared, she gets shot very quickly. It's a priority to max elements on cardi's armor. C-Grade weapon (mysterious sword, not homunkulus if you want to save on bsps) is good for pve, but in pvp it's always a good thing if the cardi can trance, block shield and ww.
Also if you pvp, as everybody and their sister has an annoying debuff, it costs a lot to cleanse. Currently, cardi's job seems to be more of a debuff remover than healer (CP pots blocking regular hits and criticals going too fast for heals on a lot of classes).
That said, I agree with Smittie that if you put an adena fountain in the game, it only moves the problem elsewhere. Inflation never helps.
Maybe the problem is that the current system gives more adenas to solo players than to full parties in most areas. LOA isn't really an answer because to go there you already need good gear. ;)
But seriously, the late changes of xp areas made them a good way to earn adenas in solo. Too bad I don't have much time to solo on my WL sub anymore. It was easy money + stones.
I wouldn't like to be in a party where Atarth is a leader, if he prioritize gear for nukers over cardi (anyway I heard that in his party all money goes to party leader and party members can be happy if they ever see that money, but that might be just gossip :P )
B-grade weapon was good for pve when BSSS were expensive, but nowadays BSSB and BSSS have same price.
Good, that you mentioned cleansing, i forgot about it when replying to Atarth. Whatever adena cardi saves on xp he looses on pvp, holy water cost should be lowered :P
-Healer in party dies in 2-3 hits if not well geared and i repeat, yes, thats true but not always in a ranged party that knows how to move his way.DD not well geared not only will die in 2-3 hits but wont be able to kill anyone before he dies,so it's like he doesnt exist in party and thats why no constant recruits a dd with 150 weap/ basic armor/jewles but any party recruits a cardinal with less than that(we assume that while he stays in constant,he will get some drops ofc,we wont leave him for ever poorely geared).
Too many DDS, not enough healers. Roll a healer yourself to fix it.
-You didnt even have to make any of the quests in game since you were archer and able to farm the Helbound with your party when the drops were worthing a lot!Ty very much,were you playing in a populated server?
I played on Teon all time. Most populated and most pvp-heavy server.
Cause HB was farmed in top servers only from top partys
As usual you are wrong.
that were pvping/pk all others.
Yes it wasn't easy. If you want to farm in peace, go play wow.
You had the option of many servers and you were playing in an empty one?having all areas for you?
As I said before your assumption is wrong (as usual).
Other classes-like me,nuker-couldnt farm HB,isnt that unfair in game?
It is ballance issue, not adena issue. Please stay on topic.
You made all that money because an update was full of money if you had the right class/party and for the rest of players it was the last sellings of varka recs.Again,what option a new player has like the one you had,or even the ones i had?
He doesn't need such option. He already has cheaper gear and better solo areas. I know a couple or freshly joined players (they came from privates, so they know the game though) and they manage.
-Still isnt clear what you want to prove.That you as a legit player who was an archer and PL of an archer party made good adena in HB update,but when drops stoped being valuable and archer became LOL,you reroled in BP and this prooves game works fine?
And that players must always watch which classes are needed in game and play those classes to have party for good areas?
-Still isn't clear what you want to prove. That the game should reward taking no effort and playing without any thought?
I want to prove, that if you play the game how it was meant to be played (i.e. cooperating with other people), you can survive without inhuman effort. If you want to play solo, play without doing any research, play without thinking about future of your char... go play WOW FFS.
I dissagree with that.Here its a game,its not your real life that you need to study something you may not care or have a talent for it,to find a job that you may not like at all,just because you need to make a living.
In a game,you PAY your real money and/or SPENT your real time to have fun!
I have fun in L2. I had fun in all my way since level 1 up to now. Fun of overcoming troubles, meeting people who shared my goals (or became deadly enemies). Fun of outsmarting all challenges that game throw at me.
I like hard games. If I wanted easy game for brain-dead kids, I wouldn't be playing L2.
FUN FUN FUN ! You choose a class that will be FUN for YOU to play and you have all the right to do that since the game you bought has all these classes to select the one you prefer to play!
And how do you want to achieve it? By making L2 a single player game? Or maybe NCSoft should emply workers that will play missing classes for your party?
If you really cannot grasp such an easy concept as overplayed and underplayed classes, I will draw a picture for you: Imagine on a server with 3000 people everyone made TH. Now you have server with 3000 treasure hunters. What you gonna do?
And now imagine, that on this server one player made a WC. So now we have a server with 3000 ths and one wc. What you think is future for 2999 THs? And what you think will be future for this WC and one lucky TH?
Got it now? MMO game? Picking class to play with other people? Or still too complicated for you?
If some class is not developed enough to be able to find party
There are four classes that are not developed enough to find party: phantom summoner, elemental summoner, maestro and prophet. Rest of them is fine.
,or in every update the areas/quests that are introduced as the tools from which the players will make adena /gear arent suitable for ALL classes,then it is not you that you choosed bad class,its developers bad designing of current update!
In current update money making areas are areas in which the raid bosses spawn. These are suitable for every class. That means in current update all classes are fine.
Anyway what you want to discuss now? Bad design of xp areas? Class ballance? Stay on topic maybe.
I wouldn't like to be in a party where Atarth is a leader, if he prioritize gear for nukers over cardi (anyway I heard that in his party all money goes to party leader and party members can be happy if they ever see that money, but that might be just gossip :P )
B-grade weapon was good for pve when BSSS were expensive, but nowadays BSSB and BSSS have same price.
Good, that you mentioned cleansing, i forgot about it when replying to Atarth. Whatever adena cardi saves on xp he looses on pvp, holy water cost should be lowered :P
I also heard that in some constant partys, members that do come to raids every week, are buying the drops from their party raids from the partyleader and unless they buy them,they dont get anything from their party.(not gossip P )
Me,i dont give anything from raid drops to members of my party that dont show up in raids.If someone says yes i want to play with you,i can come on raids days and hours and he appears once every 2 weeks and again once for 1 siege and so on...all other party members that are in time ready for cc and go raid with me will take items BEFORE that guy,in fact,he will be placed last in my list of rewards and i will try to replace him in party.If you dont like that,sure you wouldnt like me as your leader :P
Since you wrote your example as a player that had no problem making adena in game and your class is cardinal(from your signature),i answered that a support class isnt a proper class to test if adena making mechanisms are working well,since supports were always(and still are)very easy classes to be recruited in good party and make adena from their share of party drops.(This was the reason many clever guys botted supports in different servers,entered different classes/constants and once they took an epic from one clan/renamed,went to other clan,took other epic,transfered,joined other clan ect...)
I gave the example, any constant if lf cardinal will recruit a 84+ cardi even with c weapon and dynasty gear,because he can do his main job,heal/rez/ cleanse and ofc by participating with his party in raids he will get his share and will make a better gear.
But no constant that looks for a dd will recruit ever a dd even 85+ if he doesnt have 300 s84 weapon and some epics,because his main job is to kill fast enough and he cant perform his job at all if poorely geared.
As for what are the expenses on a pvp party,dds also need to spam whatever potion is available,some classes will spend less than 100 cp potions in 1 siege because they dont care to die fast or people are not after them or the dds of their partys play good enough to distruct enemys from attacking the cardi and other classes will spend 600+ cp potions and numerous elixiris/qhp/springs ect....
when you figure out how many milions 1 siege costed to a good pvp dd and to a cardinal,you wont find many cardinals spending more than dds.
As I said before your assumption is wrong (as usual).
And how do you want to achieve it? By making L2 a single player game? Or maybe NCSoft should emply workers that will play missing classes for your party?
I will draw a picture for you: Imagine on a server with 3000 people everyone made TH. Now you have server with 3000 treasure hunters. What you gonna do?
And now imagine, that on this server one player made a WC. So now we have a server with 3000 ths and one wc. What you think is future for 2999 THs? And what you think will be future for this WC and one lucky TH?
Fake example,stay in game terms please.
If in any game with multiple classes havind different roles/jobs,all players created 1
class,this would be in a X100 prive server that all players created the top pvp toon to pvp
for 1-2 days.In any normal server ,game couldnt run if that happened,that's why its
developers job to make
all classes attractive so all kind of players ( the pvpers, the grinders,the young ones
older ones, housewifes, kids)can find the class it suits them and with this class
they should be able to play the game from the begining untill the end.Developers are
getting payed to do their job and players pay to play.
Keeping some lower lvl alts for additional income(spoiler,alt for fortress ect.)is being called ''you legit player put your brain to work on how with multiple toons you can gear your main'',reroling because you see your main is not making the adena he used to anymore,or he s not the strong pvp class, to another class who pwnz all or you see many constants are lf recruit hoping they will gear you for free,its another story.
You will come on these boards and say Lineage 2 is not what it used to be. All these "WOW" kids are killing our game.....but know who really killed this game?
Proof? Try reading this ENTIRE THREAD. There are at least 3 people who posted EXAMPLES on this thread alone.
Maybe you could try reading something besides your own rants then.
There are more than 3 examples of ppl doing just fine. And more then 3 ppl agreeing that boosting adena drops will not solve the problem. If there is a problem.
Try to find ways to make money Hels, instead of trying to just make mobs drop double adena lol.
Proof? Try reading this ENTIRE THREAD. There are at least 3 people who posted EXAMPLES on this thread alone.
Actually, there were at least 3 people who said that we only have 2 servers because the adena drops are so small. But apparently those people forgot to look at Korea :rolleyes:
Actually, there were at least 3 people who said that we only have 2 servers because the adena drops are so small. But apparently those people forgot to look at Korea :rolleyes:
Yep, and there are many ppl saying bots keep mats prices down, but they forget to look at korea too. Or that they keep the game alive, same, they forget to look at korea or russia.
Now that most trains quit farming adena because there isnt much market left for it due to massive dropouts, the prices are going down and ppl sell mats in shops while mats buy shops are below NPC shops. One more bot theory that tries to prove they are useful to the game gone down the drains. Also those that used to bash legits for buying mats on the market saying this makes them cheaters lost one more time.
The fewer cheaters, the better the game will do, dont forget to look at korea and russia.
Failing that, the fewer players, the better legits will do. So either they ban bots and we win, or they dont and bots leave and we still win.
M
That is most selfish, egoistic and devoid of compassion thing u have ever said. EVERYONE is needed in the game, even such a hipocrit as you.
???
Who exactly are those people your "EVERYONE" is needed to, and why can't they help this "EVERYONE" with the equipment?
Just because someone fails in the game doesnt mean he is not adding a value to a server. And what is the value by ur means ?? tell me.
Anything they add to the game by playing an MMO instead of some single-person game. Anything that may cause other players to pay them back.
And first of all, friendship. Ask yourself, if you have new or returning friends that got to S-grade and use their S-grade box for 90 days, why wouldn't you help them to equip themselves with permanent stuff?
If you think of how many lvls someone can hit, how much gear he can obtain or how many ppl he can kill then thats hte kind of thinking that got us in to this mess. I know ppl who log in just for the very pleasure of chatting with others and doing some stupid things together, who are you to deny them that.
Deny what? Can't you chat with your friends when you aren't equipped in S-grade?
If in any game with multiple classes havind different roles/jobs,all players created 1
class,this would be in a X100 prive server that all players created the top pvp toon to pvp
for 1-2 days.In any normal server ,game couldnt run if that happened,that's why its
developers job to make
all classes attractive so all kind of players ( the pvpers, the grinders,the young ones
older ones, housewifes, kids)can find the class it suits them and with this class
they should be able to play the game from the begining untill the end.Developers are
getting payed to do their job and players pay to play.
In L2 all classes except few (I can imagine four) are equally atractive in terms of game ballance.
Name me a class, except those four that I already mentioned, that *from the point of class ballance and power* is significantly less attractive and tell why.
reroling because you see your main is not making the adena he used to anymore,or he s not the strong pvp class, to another class who pwnz all or you see many constants are lf recruit hoping they will gear you for free,its another story.
I didn't reroll, because archer lost it's money making ability (which he never had anyway. "money making ability" as class feature was something that titans have). I rerolled, after my party disbanded, because there was too big competition for parties from other archers, and I couldn't keep up. It was my mistake to pick overplayed class. Archers weakness at pvp at that time was only helping me to make decision, but again, we don't discuss pvp ballance in this thread.
Cardis have easier time getting parties than archers, not because they are more "powerfull" than archers. This is because there are more archers than potential party slots for archers and less cardis than potential party slots for cardis. If situation would be opposite, parties would be taking undergeared archers in same way, as they take undergeared cardis. Game designers cannot do anything about this, if they want to keep making MMO, not a single player online game.
If I will have to repeat this one more time, I will seriously kill a kitten. Keep that in mind.
As for what are the expenses on a pvp party,dds also need to spam whatever potion is available,
Same as healers, but most of the time healers take more damage from more enemies, so they have to spam more pots.
when you figure out how many milions 1 siege costed to a good pvp dd and to a cardinal,you wont find many cardinals spending more than dds.
What exactly is the expense that DD spends and cardi doesn't? Details.
I know, how much DD spend on pvp, cause I was playing DD for 3 years. What about you? Do you even know how much one holy water costs, and how many of them are needed for each siege? What kind of party leader you are???
Fake example,stay in game terms please.
It was proper example, but you didn't see the pattern, about which i'm talking since 3 posts. This was exaggerated picture, to make my point more clear for you, but you are hopeless.
Proof? Try reading this ENTIRE THREAD. There are at least 3 people who posted EXAMPLES on this thread alone.
IN ENTIRE THREAD THERE ARE 3 (THREE) PEOPLE THAT POST ANECDATA THAT YOU MISTAKE FOR EXAMPLES!!!!!111!!! AND CAPS MAKE YOUR POINTS MORE VALID!!!!!!!!!!!
If you seriously think, that the game lost popularity cause of problems with adena, then you must wake up. And yes, explain to me how korean servers work, pretty please.
I think something people mis-interpret often between the two sides of the adena argument is that people who have no adena issues have been or are in a clan that has given them gear, and people who have adena issues are the ones who don't take charity, don't ask their clan directly for stuff, or prefer to solo and do their own purchases and earn stuff alone.
If you try to make every SA, make all AA needed to get S gems etc, get all your own mats, hunt your keymats, quest your recipies the gear you end up with is below what your peers have. I know this because this is how I am. The only way a player who does this, to make adena (to get the good gear), is by market trading and/or events run by NCsoft. Events actually form a huge part of the income in this case (through selling letter II's and S's for example).
I do get quite annoyed when comments like "you are fail" appear because you can't afford the S gems for an SA for a Dyn weapon (never mind Icarus or higher), or because you rely on drops to element your armor (takes a long time via drops alone trust me). Fortunately a change in codex prices in High5 makes skills more easily achievable to a decent level now for 'normal' players without much adena. Good players should not be judged by whether they have top gear or not, but sadly this is all too often the case.
Generally speaking, the real "problem" with adena isn't really a problem with the adena, its the fact that an abundance of adena for 1 person can cause them to be immencely powerful - a +7/10 top S84 weapon & +6 Vorpal armor with +15/+30 skills for example is 'easy' to achieve if you only have the adena for it.
IMO, adena is not easy to make with solo character. Actualy we have great number of boost exp toons.
Exp <> Adena.
More exp = less adena.
If you exp solo you will get more exp, more level and less adena.
A right way to get adena don't exist.
When I'm a newbie toon, I'm looking for market basic mats. See te mat with good price. Buy seeds in manor and farm mats to sell. What is more craft item atm? what is less basic material in giran market?
Keep in mind, farm adena first, get level, buy equips.
Retail server is a good place to farm adena and exp, but need patience. Wait events and sell event itens to make a "big farm".
In L2 all classes except few (I can imagine four) are equally atractive in terms of game ballance.
Name me a class, except those four that I already mentioned, that *from the point of class ballance and power* is significantly less attractive and tell why.
I didn't reroll, because archer lost it's money making ability (which he never had anyway. "money making ability" as class feature was something that titans have). I rerolled, after my party disbanded, because there was too big competition for parties from other archers, and I couldn't keep up. It was my mistake to pick overplayed class. Archers weakness at pvp at that time was only helping me to make decision, but again, we don't discuss pvp ballance in this thread.
Cardis have easier time getting parties than archers, not because they are more "powerfull" than archers. This is because there are more archers than potential party slots for archers and less cardis than potential party slots for cardis. If situation would be opposite, parties would be taking undergeared archers in same way, as they take undergeared cardis. Game designers cannot do anything about this, if they want to keep making MMO, not a single player online game.
If I will have to repeat this one more time, I will seriously kill a kitten. Keep that in mind.
Same as healers, but most of the time healers take more damage from more enemies, so they have to spam more pots.
What exactly is the expense that DD spends and cardi doesn't? Details.
I know, how much DD spend on pvp, cause I was playing DD for 3 years. What about you? Do you even know how much one holy water costs, and how many of them are needed for each siege? What kind of party leader you are???
It was proper example, but you didn't see the pattern, about which i'm talking since 3 posts. This was exaggerated picture, to make my point more clear for you, but you are hopeless.
BLAH BLAH more.
This thread is not about the story of your life in L2 or your thoughts about what kind of PL i am(without known me),is about what caused the real problem with Adena in game.And some people wrote their conclusion which is X1 rates and q with LOL rewards and no good rewards events are the reason for that,making players not able to pass ever the line between basic geared toon to a medium-good-top geared toon and the fact botters/ebayers were let free for years to do whatever they wanted and suddenly gms decide to ban whoever bots/ebay letting now all people to be feeded only from X1 rates.
What we learn from that?
Either keep servers clean from day 1 from bots/ebay,so ALL players lvl and gear the same way with X1 rates or you cant let the jar wth cookies opened for some and close it for others,the others will be hungy!
The fact that you and me and some others were able to have a medium-good gear with X1 rates,was because EVERYONE else in the server was ebaying or boting,so everyone had never ending adena to spent to whatever he could see in shop,nowdays we hardly can sell anything unless it's item that we also need it.
The game as it is now cant run!The source of incoming adena was the RMT,with X1 rates legit players cant produce ammounts of adena or cant make good ammount of drops(to assume lets not have adena and all,just go and drop the items).The new top items in game are available only from auction and auction sinks adena and only rich players(call them ex-botters/ex-ebayers)can afford auction for top s84 and again the ex-botters are keeping their top position in game.
Then why gms stopped bots/ebay?To let the ones that sucessfuly did it stay uber in game for ever and make sure no other player can reach them?This is what they have achieved.
With vit4 and vit events and upcoming GOD that classes start at 85 lvl,any new player is trying to get into 85 because he thinks game is changing and he wants to be able to be part of GOD game.The fastest new players run,the poorer they are,the less they can play their role as ''new blood'' in game.
Last days im searching for some classes for my constant,i spoke with so many new players.SWMs 78-80 with a grade armor/common weapon and common jewles,SE 84 lvl with moirai armor/common a jewles/a grade weapon,EE 83 with a grade armor and c weapon/Nukers 83-84 with am 150 and dynasty armor,all these lvling and lvling cause of vitality but without having the means to be geared as we were in their lvls.
Actually, there were at least 3 people who said that we only have 2 servers because the adena drops are so small. But apparently those people forgot to look at Korea :rolleyes:
What we forgot about Korea?The facts we learned from the korean player that writes in this forum(and can been confirmed by others too)that Korean players ebay huge money(so korean gms didnt elliminate RMT and bottrains like our gms did) and the legit players can easily make billions in market with craft/buy/sell because everyone is buying and craftin for rare items and ++++++ ?
Korean servers run with the huge boost of rmt,add to this they had the good events and vitality before us and have also coin system,compare them to what we have now.
What we forgot about Korea?The facts we learned from the korean player that writes in this forum(and can been confirmed by others too)that Korean players ebay huge money(so korean gms didnt elliminate RMT and bottrains like our gms did)
Korean GMs eliminated bottrains long ago. Korean RMT has been for a long time of the same nature as our servers' RMT is now: top clans farm adena and rare items on top spots, and then sell them for real money to ingame losers.
This thread is not about the story of your life in L2 or your thoughts about what kind of PL i am(without known me),is about what caused the real problem with Adena in game.And some people wrote their conclusion which is X1 rates and q with LOL rewards and no good rewards events are the reason for that,making players not able to pass ever the line between basic geared toon to a medium-good-top geared toon and the fact botters/ebayers were let free for years to do whatever they wanted and suddenly gms decide to ban whoever bots/ebay letting now all people to be feeded only from X1 rates.
What we learn from that?
Either keep servers clean from day 1 from bots/ebay,so ALL players lvl and gear the same way with X1 rates or you cant let the jar wth cookies opened for some and close it for others,the others will be hungy!
The fact that you and me and some others were able to have a medium-good gear with X1 rates,was because EVERYONE else in the server was ebaying or boting,so everyone had never ending adena to spent to whatever he could see in shop,nowdays we hardly can sell anything unless it's item that we also need it.
The game as it is now cant run!The source of incoming adena was the RMT,with X1 rates legit players cant produce ammounts of adena or cant make good ammount of drops(to assume lets not have adena and all,just go and drop the items).The new top items in game are available only from auction and auction sinks adena and only rich players(call them ex-botters/ex-ebayers)can afford auction for top s84 and again the ex-botters are keeping their top position in game.
Then why gms stopped bots/ebay?To let the ones that sucessfuly did it stay uber in game for ever and make sure no other player can reach them?This is what they have achieved.
With vit4 and vit events and upcoming GOD that classes start at 85 lvl,any new player is trying to get into 85 because he thinks game is changing and he wants to be able to be part of GOD game.The fastest new players run,the poorer they are,the less they can play their role as ''new blood'' in game.
Last days im searching for some classes for my constant,i spoke with so many new players.SWMs 78-80 with a grade armor/common weapon and common jewles,SE 84 lvl with moirai armor/common a jewles/a grade weapon,EE 83 with a grade armor and c weapon/Nukers 83-84 with am 150 and dynasty armor,all these lvling and lvling cause of vitality but without having the means to be geared as we were in their lvls.
What you discribe is a problem of resources drops, not adena drops. Bots hid the fact that it's hard to get stuff by crafting it yourself. When there's an endless supply of mats and adenas, you can craft to sell. Maybe L2 wasn't designed for that. Maybe it was supposed to be hard to equip yourself and you would need to gather in clan to spoil and craft for everyone.
From the moment adenas cover the consumable sinks, there's enough of money. If there isn't enough adenas to buy the full stuff, then you're supposed to farm for it. Bots and RMT killed that idea. If some players allow themselves to skip some parts of the gameplay, competitors have to follow.
What people are seeing as a problem of adenas is in fact the difference between the poorest and the richest. If the richer players buy adenas, they can afford whatever they want. The poorer can't and believe they should. Alas no, if you don't cheat you can't expect the gear of cheaters. Boost adenas drops, the richer will get richer (more adenas for less money), the price will go up and the poorer still won't be able to buy the same gear.
BLAH BLAH more.
You started talking about my class and on which server I played and why i rerolled. I'm just responding to your false claims about my char and history on server.
Last days im searching for some classes for my constant,i spoke with so many new players.SWMs 78-80 with a grade armor/common weapon and common jewles,SE 84 lvl with moirai armor/common a jewles/a grade weapon,EE 83 with a grade armor and c weapon/Nukers 83-84 with am 150 and dynasty armor,all these lvling and lvling cause of vitality but without having the means to be geared as we were in their lvls.
Recently i sold moirai set to a lvl 80 EE. She promised, she will pay me full sum till end of may.
She started one month ago, and during this month managed to get dynasty set and AM with nuke augment. BTW I know where she farms adena (she is smart enough to separate adena grind from xp) and this can be done by any level and any class.
It's not game fault, that only people who don't know how to play apply to your party.
Still anecdata vs anecdata. Success of one player proves your points invalid, cause if one player can do this, others can do as well. Just difference between L2 and other MMOs is that in L2 nothing is granted to you, just because you decided to log in and kill few mobs.
Most importantly, rising adena drops will not help players with anything except obtaining shop gear. Normal gear will just become more expensive which we seen in past. If you played long enough on Teon, maybe you remember adena duping exploits, which just proobe how bad idea it is to artificially increase amount of adena in economy.
From both Krissa and Washtak comments,isnt clear that L2 never worked not in NA servers not anywhere in the world without bots/ebay?
If bots were banned from the first days of L2,you realise what it follow?L2 wouldnt get new update with new armors or any new stuff to obtain every 6 months,because simply there's NO way with X 1 rates a legit player who will grind for 4-6 hours to farm what it needs to obtain the new items.Or else,it wouldnt make sense Nscoft celebrate her new update with new areas and new armors and post photos of them and players cant make a single set of this armor in a server,or only 1 party from a whole server been able to farm in the new area and this been repeatable every 6 months.
There was no connection to all updates new items after chronicles and the capability of legit player to obtain them.Maybe someone was designing knowing people wont complain they cant make in game the new stuff,because they had other ways to make them?It's like elegia armors now,we will get GOD update before we can wear them,imagine this happening with all grades starting from dynasty untill vorpal.
And the way they handled the issue making bot/rmt impossible anymore without any fix for game becoming playble also with legit way, it is only the cheaters that they benefit.
With X1 rates,been in clan wouldnt gear you more than yourself solo grind or duo grind with friend,since clan was always a come-go situation without any way of control for how long and how active a member will be.Each clan could have a list with drops and members that were asking for and a fair leader could think that when he finish with 1 item for all first 10 members in list then he will have 10 more strong people in clan/WRONG/those players could leave clan anytime to join whatother clan because some friend plays there,or even quit game and leader would have again to gear other 10 members with 1 item without even be able to pass to item 2.This was leaving clan always week,week clan cant do epic raids,the whole system of L2 again wouldnt work.
To summorize,with X1 rates L2 as it is designed can work in server with 4+k really active people only untill c4.
What I say is that if bots/RMT were removed from the beginning, it would have appeared clearly that the drop rate of resources was too low. More or less adenas wouldn't have change anything. It takes the value you give it.
There was a time when being A-Grade was totally awesome (and hard to keep once acquired). Back then B-Grade would require a lot of time to work on, and even C-Grade wasn't piece of cake. Nowadays any newbie can get his set and outlevel it in a flick. Would you say the game is harder because the adena drops weren't touched? No, it's still easier because it's not about the adenas, it's about the way to get stuff. Once it's at the NPC it's easy. You don't have to farm TOI for months for oblivious recipes.
Everybody crushes their S-Grade gear to make soulshots because it's better than selling it, so how can you say stuff is too expensive. An IC set at 50 millions, would you have dreamt about it a few years ago? The drops are the same, it's very affordable now.
Now if you want to say that players level too fast, that may be true. But either you deny the age of the game and force players to grind at low levels, or you accept the history and rush them to make them play with the older players and thus you accept that there are older players to help them to gear up with their old and unused stuff. (ie the system works)
What I say is that if bots/RMT were removed from the beginning, it would have appeared clearly that the drop rate of resources was too low. More or less adenas wouldn't have change anything. It takes the value you give it.
There was a time when being A-Grade was totally awesome (and hard to keep once acquired). Back then B-Grade would require a lot of time to work on, and even C-Grade wasn't piece of cake. Nowadays any newbie can get his set and outlevel it in a flick. Would you say the game is harder because the adena drops weren't touched? No, it's still easier because it's not about the adenas, it's about the way to get stuff. Once it's at the NPC it's easy. You don't have to farm TOI for months for oblivious recipes.
Everybody crushes their S-Grade gear to make soulshots because it's better than selling it, so how can you say stuff is too expensive. An IC set at 50 millions, would you have dreamt about it a few years ago? The drops are the same, it's very affordable now.
Now if you want to say that players level too fast, that may be true. But either you deny the age of the game and force players to grind at low levels, or you accept the history and rush them to make them play with the older players and thus you accept that there are older players to help them to gear up with their old and unused stuff. (ie the system works)
By far the best post on this topic, truth in every word. Thank you!
No need to discuss this “Adena problem†further, close this thread and let’s get back in game.
Well, we know that since you appear to have threee 80+ fully-geared toons, it certainly works for you and a few others.
We still have yet to hear from Falconboy where is magical place is that you can actually make adean at A-grade and low S-grade solo. And making 1-2mil an hour has already been mentioned.
Of course this is coming from the genius who thinks 100 hours a month is "casual play". Maybe if you're on dissability sitting at home all day, and spending your money on L2. Falcon's credibility is minimal at best, so I'm interested to see how he explains this magical spot of his? The game works if you bot and ebay like crazy, or have in the past. The rest of us would like to hear some real answers.
Korean GMs eliminated bottrains long ago. Korean RMT has been for a long time of the same nature as our servers' RMT is now: top clans farm adena and rare items on top spots, and then sell them for real money to ingame losers.
I get it now. It took me a while because I didn't look at it from a personal perspective but the game perspective.
You don't want the game to continue as a healthy business. You have enough adena stockpiled personally that you want the adena crunch to get worse... so you can cash out when you are ready to quit yourself, for real money.
Not a bad idea if NCSoft won't fix the problem, very Darwin.
Of course this is coming from the genius who thinks 100 hours a month is "casual play". Maybe if you're on dissability sitting at home all day, and spending your money on L2.
I agree a casual player puts in around 100 hours a month and that player will have no Adena and low grade armor and weapons. To give a 100 hours to Lineage ][ in a month all you need to do is play an average 3 hours during the weekdays and 5 hours on the weekends.
A semi-casual player plays an average 2 hours during the weekdays and 4 hours on the weekends. This results in only 72 hours a month.
A hardcore player plays an average 6 hours during the weekdays and 12 hours on the weekends. This results in 216 hours a month good gear and Adena to spend.
We struggle every day to keep this level of commitment and everyday life balanced. This lifestyle is in no way easy or for everyone, but it is the life of a hardcore gamer.
I agree a casual player puts in around 100 hours a month and that player will have no Adena and low grade armor and weapons. To give a 100 hours to Lineage ][ in a month all you need to do is play an average 3 hours during the weekdays and 5 hours on the weekends.
A semi-casual player plays an average 2 hours during the weekdays and 4 hours on the weekends. This results in only 72 hours a month.
A hardcore player plays an average 6 hours during the weekdays and 12 hours on the weekends. This results in 216 hours a month good gear and Adena to spend.
We struggle every day to keep this level of commitment and everyday life balanced. This lifestyle is in no way easy are for everyone, but it is the life of a hardcore gamer.
I gotta admit, that's pretty good response Drac - darn accurate when it comes to LII.
Unfortunately for the vast majority of players - especially those new, and those returning - - things seem to have gotten much more difficult than before, since it's so hard to work the market now. I do think increasing adena drops a little (maybe double in some areas), and adding more drops that sell good (whether in the NPC shops or in town), would really help. It used to be that way a few years ago, and just doesn't even come close to that now.
I really want to see the game stick around, and get "healthy". The way it's going now, that prognosis is not very good I'm afraid.
I agree a casual player puts in around 100 hours a month and that player will have no Adena and low grade armor and weapons. To give a 100 hours to Lineage ][ in a month all you need to do is play an average 3 hours during the weekdays and 5 hours on the weekends.
A semi-casual player plays an average 2 hours during the weekdays and 4 hours on the weekends. This results in only 72 hours a month.
A hardcore player plays an average 6 hours during the weekdays and 12 hours on the weekends. This results in 216 hours a month good gear and Adena to spend.
We struggle every day to keep this level of commitment and everyday life balanced. This lifestyle is in no way easy are for everyone, but it is the life of a hardcore gamer.
Your on some serious crack. A casual player plays 100 hours a month? I do not know any one with spends 25 hours a week on a hobby, 25 hours a week is a part-time job for someone who has 2 work two jobs.
Now if you live in your parents basement and do not work yea 100 hours a month is casual because l2 is your life /rolls eyes.
Seriously you spend more then 10 - 15 hours a week on a hobby your hardcore. A hardcore player better not have a job to put the hours you have in because 6 hours a day and 12 on the weekends = 54 hours a week about 1 full time job and a small part time job.
In the end it wont matter cause we are all screwed in GOD level 85 solo mobs drop 1k - 2200 per mob and give about .02% xp. Now say you get a R85 weapon costs 800 mil in adena (regular adena can't be farmed like AA) for a SA in gems alone that would mean you have to kill (do high end say you avg. 1500 per mob in adena) you only have to kills 533,333 mobs to get your SA.
Ah but here is the kicker since you get .02% per kill and if outlevel the mob by 3 levels it no longer drops it is worse. Since every 5,000 - 6,000 mobs you will hit 86, say 87 is 8000 mobs and 88 is 10,000 mobs you would have to kill about 25,000 mobs.
533,333 mobs to get a SA on your S85 weapon
25,000 mobs to get from 85 - 88.
Say even if takes another 75,000 mobs to go from 88 - 90. Means your now able to get your R90 weapon and only 430,000 mobs short to SA your R85 weapon (nevermind deductions in shots, and pots, soul ore etc.)
The devs have screwed the economics of the game up the math no longer works. 80+ mobs should be dropping 15k - 20k each, 85+ mobs 30k+ for solo mobs but instead you get more per mob in your 70's then in your 80's.
And before anyone says its easier to kill mobs in you 80's then 70's is on drugs. I can 1 - 2 hit mobs in FOD and get 4 - 6k adena a kill, takes me 2 - 3 hits a mob in Plains of lizardman and i get 800 - 2k a kill explain please?
There's so much blah blah (including mine) on this thread that no one gets an accurate idea of who wants what. So I put up a poll.
If you think that everything is just great, vote no changes please. I'm curious if more people think adena drops are just fine, and agree with those of you who don't want to see any improvement to the situation.
Your on some serious crack. A casual player plays 100 hours a month? I do not know any one with spends 25 hours a week on a hobby, 25 hours a week is a part-time job for someone who has 2 work two jobs.
Now if you live in your parents basement and do not work yea 100 hours a month is casual because l2 is your life /rolls eyes.
Seriously you spend more then 10 - 15 hours a week on a hobby your hardcore. A hardcore player better not have a job to put the hours you have in because 6 hours a day and 12 on the weekends = 54 hours a week about 1 full time job and a small part time job.
In the end it wont matter cause we are all screwed in GOD level 85 solo mobs drop 1k - 2200 per mob and give about .02% xp. Now say you get a R85 weapon costs 800 mil in adena (regular adena can't be farmed like AA) for a SA in gems alone that would mean you have to kill (do high end say you avg. 1500 per mob in adena) you only have to kills 533,333 mobs to get your SA.
Ah but here is the kicker since you get .02% per kill and if outlevel the mob by 3 levels it no longer drops it is worse. Since every 5,000 - 6,000 mobs you will hit 86, say 87 is 8000 mobs and 88 is 10,000 mobs you would have to kill about 25,000 mobs.
533,333 mobs to get a SA on your S85 weapon
25,000 mobs to get from 85 - 88.
Say even if takes another 75,000 mobs to go from 88 - 90. Means your now able to get your R90 weapon and only 430,000 mobs short to SA your R85 weapon (nevermind deductions in shots, and pots, soul ore etc.)
The devs have screwed the economics of the game up the math no longer works. 80+ mobs should be dropping 15k - 20k each, 85+ mobs 30k+ for solo mobs but instead you get more per mob in your 70's then in your 80's.
And before anyone says its easier to kill mobs in you 80's then 70's is on drugs. I can 1 - 2 hit mobs in FOD and get 4 - 6k adena a kill, takes me 2 - 3 hits a mob in Plains of lizardman and i get 800 - 2k a kill explain please?
Awesome Sly! = winner!
Drac makes a good point - though Sly nails it. Almost no reasonable person can commit this kind of time to the game - not for very long at least (unless they have tons of time and disposable income - and even then, someone with much sense would not do it). The ecomonmy needs a serious overhaul, and it seems it would not be a huge problem to fix. Probably somethere in the middle between some better drops (adena and full-drops), and what Sly says here. A lot of people are interested in fixing this - or at least addressing the issue more seriously. I hope this is enough to spark NCSoft's interest in addressing it as well. Great post, btw Hells - I'm interesting in that Poll (hopefully NCSoft will be as well).
BTW Drac - that post about 10 hours on the forum is hilarious. I don't spend a who lot more than that on the game myself - and I probably check here more than I should (bits and peices, here and there). Just hope it's time well spent if NCSoft considers this a bit more seriously.
I already posted the poll, it's in this section (General Discussion). Not many people have voted.... but atm, it's 60% in favor of raising adena rates to 4.5x. Heh.
I get it now. It took me a while because I didn't look at it from a personal perspective
Actually, you do look at it from a personal perspective. From a personal perspective of your imaginary loser.
but the game perspective.
And here comes the game perspective:
L2 is a competitive grind MMO. It attracts people that like competition and it attracts people that like the sense of accomplishment after a long grind.
Can you make L2 so easy that every loser will be happy to play it... for a while? Yep, you can. However, it won't be L2 anymore. You will lose those subscribers that were here because of grind and its sense of achievement, you will lose those subscribers that liked competition - because there will be no competition anymore. Eventially you will lose your population of losers as well, because Facebook has more content and Hello Kitty Online has more shades of pink.
You don't want the game to continue as a healthy business.
The game keeps people paying because those people like grind. They like to set their goals and to achieve them over time, and it's ok for them to pay for that time.
Now you are coming and saying that those who pay for time to achieve their goals can be ignored, and the game should instead be adapted for those who prefer instant gratification. But if they get instant gratification, they aren't going to pay for the time for delayed one. So, who doesn't want the game to continue as a healthy business here? :rolleyes:
You have enough adena stockpiled personally that you want the adena crunch to get worse...
???
Adena is irrelevant. It's not adena what matters. The game has a player-driven economy, the stuff here is made by players' labor and then freely traded. Whoever makes more labor, gets more stuff in result. Adena is just a common measuring tool to measure relative amounts of labor, and the more adena is here in game, the more any particular unit of labor costs in it.
If you cannot grind effectively and efficiently, if you cannot cut your % of labor on trading, if you cannot provide yourself as a valuable resource to your friends and clannies, you will always be poorer than those who can. No amount of adena dropping from mobs will help you.
so you can cash out when you are ready to quit yourself, for real money.
Why should I cash out when I quit? I have ingame friends that still may want to be able to count on that amount of ingame resources they could get from me.
In the end it wont matter cause we are all screwed in GOD level 85 solo mobs drop 1k - 2200 per mob and give about .02% xp.
I bet they will drop and spoil enough metallic fiber (and other junk like it) to get at least 5k per mob when you sell it to NPC :rolleyes:
If you cannot grind effectively and efficiently, if you cannot cut your % of labor on trading, if you cannot provide yourself as a valuable resource to your friends and clannies, you will always be poorer than those who can. No amount of adena dropping from mobs will help you.
Hear, hear!!!
You have found the REAL problem with Adena... well done.
Krissa, even you have to concede the game is dying. I'm sure members of your clan have fallen off the game too.
L2 isn't Survivor or 10 Little Indians. The winner is not the last man left in the game playing it solo, because L2 will be shut down by Korea well before that happens, the way they shut down L1.
The advantages of the longest players in this game in terms of accrued net worth will not be overcome ever by people who play casually or coming back to the game with very few exceptions. This is no threat to your money, because it means more drops for you as well.
Of course, if you have cut back playing substantially, as many of the people who don't like the idea did as well, then you aren't going to keep accumulating, and yes, others could surpass you. I can see why that might suck enough to not want any changes.
No one suggested removing the L2 grind. What I suggested is that adena drops are brought up to WHAT YOU BENEFITED FROM for years... before the Vit and Nevitt's showed up. Not so anyone will get rich, but so that we have an infusion of new bodies in the game to keep it going.
NCSoft is clearly a very humanitarian company... you can see that by their donation to the Japanese disaster. Considering Korea's horrible historical experience with Japan in this century alone, every living Korean has relatives who recall direct Japanese brutality during WWII, it was a staggering donation that symbolized a forgiveness most individuals aren't capable of.
I'm sure NCSoft will try to keep the game going, so long as we maintain a minimum subscription rate. The question is, can we do that with the game the way it is now?
From both Krissa and Washtak comments,isnt clear that L2 never worked not in NA servers not anywhere in the world without bots/ebay?
If bots were banned from the first days of L2,you realise what it follow?L2 wouldnt get new update with new armors or any new stuff to obtain every 6 months,because simply there's NO way with X 1 rates a legit player who will grind for 4-6 hours to farm what it needs to obtain the new items.Or else,it wouldnt make sense Nscoft celebrate her new update with new areas and new armors and post photos of them and players cant make a single set of this armor in a server,or only 1 party from a whole server been able to farm in the new area and this been repeatable every 6 months.
There was no connection to all updates new items after chronicles and the capability of legit player to obtain them.Maybe someone was designing knowing people wont complain they cant make in game the new stuff,because they had other ways to make them?It's like elegia armors now,we will get GOD update before we can wear them,imagine this happening with all grades starting from dynasty untill vorpal.
And the way they handled the issue making bot/rmt impossible anymore without any fix for game becoming playble also with legit way, it is only the cheaters that they benefit.
With X1 rates,been in clan wouldnt gear you more than yourself solo grind or duo grind with friend,since clan was always a come-go situation without any way of control for how long and how active a member will be.Each clan could have a list with drops and members that were asking for and a fair leader could think that when he finish with 1 item for all first 10 members in list then he will have 10 more strong people in clan/WRONG/those players could leave clan anytime to join whatother clan because some friend plays there,or even quit game and leader would have again to gear other 10 members with 1 item without even be able to pass to item 2.This was leaving clan always week,week clan cant do epic raids,the whole system of L2 again wouldnt work.
To summorize,with X1 rates L2 as it is designed can work in server with 4+k really active people only untill c4.
That is so much BS that i cant even think where to start to prove it as BS.
In korea the game works. Prices were never so high as here, mats were in sufficinet supply, casual players can play, etc.
Even here, where bots kept prices high, there were legit clans that could gear their members at least to a grade without ebay or such. There are still.
Those that come and go in clans, sure, wont get much while those that make the base of the clan will never need anything except maybe bosses jewels and only the most expensive ones. 100% is such a clan.
As it was shown before, one example of someone or some clan that managed to gear himself/their members without cheating is a proof bot theories are wrong. Not to mention looking in Korea or other places where bots are not allowed. Did they close shop in c1 ? C2 ? C3 ?
Even more, their players subsidise you so you can destroy their image with such BS. Without the players in Korea to pay for NCNA losses, our bots would have not been here, they are subsidized by the ppl in Korea, not are they keeping the game alive, they are a black hole that continuously drains players and revenues out of NCNA and every step to help them is another blow to l2 chances to recover and become a fair game.
Nope, as long as NCNA doest stop current policy to ban and hinder legits and help bots, things wont change, there will be more ppl leaving, more losses, more problems with servers stability and support and in the end, even the most determined bots will leave because if everyone can cheat, including your enemy, then it isnt fun anymore.
M
I'm sure NCSoft will try to keep the game going, so long as we maintain a minimum subscription rate. The question is, can we do that with the game the way it is now?
Adena drops were scarce in C1-C2, but the game was thriving despite all the other problems back then. The key is that crafting was viable, and more efficient back then. You could take it a step further and say it was a clan effort to craft gear for your clan mates.
With GoD update, the increasing amount of mats, and common drops due to high vitality may bring that back, or crafting as we know it may be dead.
I don't think increasing adena drops is a good solution now, but it probably was a good idea 2-3 years ago.
Adena drops were scarce in C1-C2, but the game was thriving despite all the other problems back then. The key is that crafting was viable, and more efficient back then. You could take it a step further and say it was a clan effort to craft gear for your clan mates.
With GoD update, the increasing amount of mats, and common drops due to high vitality may bring that back, or crafting as we know it may be dead.
I don't think increasing adena drops is a good solution now, but it probably was a good idea 2-3 years ago.
The GOD update will have no impact on new players for a long time to come. I am talking about new player retention here, and what's going to happen when Hero Chest runs out for them.