this only goes to reinforce what i have been saying all along
on awakening you dont LOSE the skills you had before and become a generic archetype, but rather you keep your old skills (lose the enchants) and give the new archetype a very different flavor from the other archetypes.
As more ss are being posted I see items being bought from NPC like Awakened BOG and Awakend mastery for 250 mil and 350 mil each.
Each time one is bought that is 250 mil adena sucked out the economy not to another player.
SO where are all players getting this extra adena? Are mobs dropping 100k adena a kill 85+ in solo areas?
If not then complete economy of l2 is about to crash if there is no enough money coming into the economy to cover adena sinks taken out of it?
BTW, Vitality will affect drops too. Perhaps adena drops as well?
I'm quite bothered by this also.
Hundred mil is something I rarely have in my pocket (never mind 250/350), and thats only when I sell literally everything for an upgrade of some sort.
I've never been much good at "making adena" in the game really; been playing since 2006 and still can't afford to SA my Dynasty weapon (costs about 140m in Gemstone S - something I always though was quite stupid was the high number of gems needed, but whatever). Many other things are needed before I even get round to that like trying to fully element my armor. Hunting provides more adena than it used to (mostly due to sss dropping from 400 a shot to 88), but its a slow trickle. I can easily see myself ending up at lvl 85+ still using a dyn sword without an SA. I'm not complaining; its just plain fact.
I'm quite bothered by this also.
Hundred mil is something I rarely have in my pocket (never mind 250/350), and thats only when I sell literally everything for an upgrade of some sort.
I've never been much good at "making adena" in the game really; been playing since 2006 and still can't afford to SA my Dynasty weapon (costs about 140m in Gemstone S - something I always though was quite stupid was the high number of gems needed, but whatever). Many other things are needed before I even get round to that like trying to fully element my armor. Hunting provides more adena than it used to (mostly due to sss dropping from 400 a shot to 88), but its a slow trickle. I can easily see myself ending up at lvl 85+ still using a dyn sword without an SA. I'm not complaining; its just plain fact.
Might as well... there will be a quest where you kill an instanced boss and get 20 items. Trade 125 for an R Grade weapon. XD
dude... that's pretty easy kills for 2-3k adena, u can't just take SV and say everything should be like that o.o
You probably missed some prices and I'm not talking about prices at olymp manager. I'm talking about prices where to put SA costs 600 mil and put 2nd one another 600 or so. Not to mention all those fancy dyes, armor crafting and many other S*** that costs hundreds of millions,
befor H5 putting SA on vesper was around 600-800 mil , bcoz AA was like 9-10 adena , i didnt see ppl crying about vesper SA back then , but cry now about R grade
maybe they should give us everything for 1 adena in GM shop
befor H5 putting SA on vesper was around 600-800 mil , bcoz AA was like 9-10 adena , i didnt see ppl crying about vesper SA back then , but cry now about R grade
maybe they should give us everything for 1 adena in GM shop
Difference is in GoD you cannot farm AA and a SA will cost 600 mil period in Adena, you wont be able to farm for gemstones.
BTW we are screwed... 85 mobs in GoD Solo area drop 1k - 2200 per mob.
Difference is in GoD you cannot farm AA and a SA will cost 600 mil period in Adena, you wont be able to farm for gemstones.
BTW we are screwed... 85 mobs in GoD Solo area drop 1k - 2200 per mob.
not necessarily. that player was solo, maybe with 7 in party that would increase.
also we dont know if the new daily quests for exp also contain adena rewards, nor do we know if 1-85 mobs will linearly reflect this change. maybe they increased the value of keymats. maybe they decreased the value of everything.
remember S crystal prices will also be capped, with items sold in shop.
maybe they made full drops occur with better frequency, to let you crush or sell to npc and recoup the cost of exp.
lots of possibilities, no reason to be negative yet.
its bad now spud, people sell their mats recs parts, and items to shops instead in the market because they get more money from NPCs then people can afford to buy for them.
Vepser, Moira are already at crystal price it cost more to craft then it does to just sell it to a shop.
And unless they increase it BY A LOT it won't change anything. I had one person tell me they will not sell vorpal to me a price i can afford because they can sell it to a shop for more.
So this gear is leaving the economy because high end clans just need the adena for their adena sinks the gear is not being sold to lower people not in the top clans. Not many people can farm antharas or valakahas only a few clans can, so they sell their gear to shops or for IRL money.
It is said that with GoD that drop rates will be effected by vitality, so my theory is that the devs are purposefully decreasing adena amounts at higher levels in anticipation of the higher amount of gear that will be available on the market. This is a big gamble though, but I suppose that is one way to revitalize player interaction with the market (buying/selling). But with that said, I think inflation is a major problem on the Korean servers, while on the NA/Euro servers that is no longer the case as it has been pointed out (Eg. People selling to NPC's instead of other players).
Here are a couple tips to help ease the pain of adena shortage.
Tip#1
Lottery
Now, we already have a lottery system in place. But, it pays under 50k if I remember correctly. We need to power ball this *#$& and make the winnings in the Billion range.
Tip#2
Race Track
I blew 4 billion adena at the track recently and all I won back was 6k adena. Come on now, pay out with meaningful rewards! If I lay down 100 mill adena and the kookabura has 8:1 odds then payout correctly **** it! If I lay down 100mill at 8:1 I should win 800 mill.
While your at this fix, implement trifecta, teasers, placements and etc.
Tip#3
PvP
Make it so that the loser in a pvp battle drops all the adena that he is carrying on him.
Hels is busy lobbying to have adena drops increased so everyone can have a false sense of being rich, before we all raise the prices on what we are selling and everyone just cant buy that new piece of armor they couldnt buy before the adena drop increase either.
But hey, atleast you can feel a bit richer, right?
Hels is busy lobbying to have adena drops increased so everyone can have a false sense of being rich, before we all raise the prices on what we are selling and everyone just cant buy that new piece of armor they couldnt buy before the adena drop increase either.
But hey, atleast you can feel a bit richer, right?
win
looking at the video, it takes a max of 10 hits to kill a mob, at 90a/shot (which is what it is around in Chronos), that's 900a, which is still less than 2-3k adena per mob.
There are already areas where you lose money when hunting, e.g. GC, but it's a tradeoff for good xp and there's also the quests that some hunting spots give.
But yes, you can't expect to get enough adena to buy everything you need just from hunting, unless you're lucky with item drops :O
looking at the video, it takes a max of 10 hits to kill a mob, at 90a/shot (which is what it is around in Chronos), that's 900a, which is still less than 2-3k adena per mob.
There are already areas where you lose money when hunting, e.g. GC, but it's a tradeoff for good xp and there's also the quests that some hunting spots give.
But yes, you can't expect to get enough adena to buy everything you need just from hunting, unless you're lucky with item drops :O
Where you think all the adena people spends comes from originally?
This has nothing to do with making money its about the about adena in the market keeps decreasing quicker then its being replaced.
This is not a real world economy. Every dollar that spent or taxed in a real economy remains in circulation. IN L2 economy adena is drained from the economy never to enter again.
Are you guys not understanding the issue? HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING MONEY.
Where you think all the adena people spends comes from originally?
Originally? From people thinking that using shots and NPC teleports for PvE was a luxury they could not afford.
Currently? From people sellling orichalcum and S grade crystals to NPCs because the S+-grade equipment is so cheap that it's not worth crafting it.
But it doesn't matter where the adena comes from if there are enough adena sinks that are useful to rich and non-necessary to poor.
This has nothing to do with making money its about the about adena in the market keeps decreasing quicker then its being replaced.
If adena in L2 keeps decreasing quicker than being replaced (which I guess is already not true for the current Chronos economy), then it means that there is still too much adena in circulation.
Are you guys not understanding the issue? HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING MONEY.
Nope, it's you who doesn't understand that there is a direct link between perception of adena shortage in the game and inability to create ingame values useful for others (which is roughly equal to inability to make money in free player-driven economies of L2 servers).
Let's see if I can give you one of those green bars, but I'm not sure it's gonna work, me and my friends never exploited it to have tons >.<
Yes Krissa got it...
The whole deal with people getting scared of big market shifts is, at the end of the day, a non-issue; because however much prices change, if you kept playing as your normally do, it will not change how rich/poor you are (except for lucky drops ofcorse), because the adena flowing into the market is the same for *everyone*, and the only reason why some are richer than others is because they did something (like epic raids, buy/sell...etc.) that you didn't.
You can't have rich people without poor people, and vice versa. I.e. There is no equality, the whole inequality between players is actually the natural equilibrium. So you either go and do things to get ahead or you stay at the bottom of the stack, and unfortunately those ahead of you already have a headstart, so you'd have to work extra hard to overtake them.
Note: this is assuming, ofcourse, that all players started off at the same state (0 adena, ungeared) and that they all had the same opportunities within the constraints of the game (i.e. no cheating, ebaying...etc). Do not go and complain about ebayers/cheaters because that is unrelated to the issue at hand, which is about the low adena drop rate.
Im spending money on nevit!! and im poor but im not complaining about adena because this is a choice, i want to get to 85 ASAP and then i will try to make adena.
Those who complain about being poor just don't work for the good thing... you can be lvl 40 and have billion buy playing the market or you can get lvl 85 ASAP and barely have 5 kk ... that depend on what you want.
It'S the same game since BETA it'S was always like that there is time to lvl and time to make money.
And for those who complain about high lvl mob droping less adena... you know you can do sub ???
Where you think all the adena people spends comes from originally?
This has nothing to do with making money its about the about adena in the market keeps decreasing quicker then its being replaced.
This is not a real world economy. Every dollar that spent or taxed in a real economy remains in circulation. IN L2 economy adena is drained from the economy never to enter again.
Are you guys not understanding the issue? HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING MONEY.
Then adena sinks is the problem not adena drops. Yes it is true that with the GoD update they are introducing more adena sinks. That I suspect is because of datamining that shows that inflation is a problem on the Korean servers.
As for adena drop rates changing with vitality mentioned by another poster above? We do not know if that is the case along with items/mats drops being effected by vitality. But if it is the case, then the net adena for players leveraging vitality will increase as a result.
Hard to say either way until we are able to test it ourselves IMVHO.
Tip#3
PvP
Make it so that the loser in a pvp battle drops all the adena that he is carrying on him.
Ur insane, yes first of all I will put all my money in WH and secondly all the max botted players will hunt all others like they did in the starting days of Lineage 2 when you could drop your armor always... no thank you don't want to be anybodies mob to farm
Originally? From people thinking that using shots and NPC teleports for PvE was a luxury they could not afford.
Currently? From people sellling orichalcum and S grade crystals to NPCs because the S+-grade equipment is so cheap that it's not worth crafting it.
But it doesn't matter where the adena comes from if there are enough adena sinks that are useful to rich and non-necessary to poor.
If adena in L2 keeps decreasing quicker than being replaced (which I guess is already not true for the current Chronos economy), then it means that there is still too much adena in circulation.
Nope, it's you who doesn't understand that there is a direct link between perception of adena shortage in the game and inability to create ingame values useful for others (which is roughly equal to inability to make money in free player-driven economies of L2 servers).
Do i really need to spell it out for you? In GoD there is no ancient adena. So only way to SA a weapon is with real adena. It cost about 800 mil adena to SA a mid S84 item, im sure it will much more for R weapons.
Let me type real slow for you.
If you have a thousand people SA weapons s84+ where is the 800 billion coming from?
The money will be removed from the economy everytime someone SA's, I care less about Nevit's blessing having a SA on weapon is not a choice because you need a SA on high end weapons so you can get pvp abilities on it etc.
Now you got the awakening books costing 250 mil each, new r dyes costing 50 mil each then the usual port fees, buying soul ore etc all money being sucked out the economy.
Now a level 90 mob drops 800 adena, where a level 40 mob drops 2200 adena..... But this is fine? If think there is a lot of adena in the economy your wrong.
Economy fails when people rather crush items, sell to npcs then sell to the marketplace. It has hit this point. So the new people don't make enough money to even buy items at crystal price is not a failed economy?
Your not suppose to be selling full items to npc shops or crushing or selling mats in a real economy.
With the increase in sinks and the decrease in drops the game will collapse after long time players 85+ ones can no longer even upgrade their gear because it cost too much real adena to NPC they have no way to get.
well sly, afaik you get a chance at opening your R weapon into Bound with no SA, Bound with random SA, Blessed.
and S84 becomes S80, so maybe they will reduce also the requirements for SA. you never know, and i didnt read anything that i can readily remember from the patch notes.
Do i really need to spell it out for you? In GoD there is no ancient adena. So only way to SA a weapon is with real adena. It cost about 800 mil adena to SA a mid S84 item, im sure it will much more for R weapons.
Let me type real slow for you.
Let me type real slow for you.
It does not cost 800 mil adena to SA a mid S84 item.
It does cost 2000 S gems to SA a top S84 item.
The S gems database price (the price the game is balanced around) is 100k adena.
If soneone is willing to pay 400k adena per S gem, it only means that there is still too much adena in the game.
(well, actually it means that the devs failed to manage the balance between adena and AA, and phasing the AA out, starting from Gracia Final. Check the prices of unsealing by Maestro Ishuma and compare those with the prices of mammons)
If you have a thousand people SA weapons s84+ where is the 800 billion coming from?
The money will be removed from the economy everytime someone SA's,
First of all, where would they get 1000 of top S84 weapons?
Second, if you are going to remove them from the economy using adena to AA conevrsion, how many days are you going to spend? Isn't it faster just to go to catas on your sub or alt (or to farm the S gems directly in AL, for those who can)?
I care less about Nevit's blessing having a SA on weapon is not a choice because you need a SA on high end weapons so you can get pvp abilities on it etc.
So far it looks looks like you will be getting weapons with random SAs anyway, and that R gems are only used to add rare (second) SAs.
Now you got the awakening books costing 250 mil each, new r dyes costing 50 mil each then the usual port fees, buying soul ore etc all money being sucked out the economy.
Now a level 90 mob drops 800 adena, where a level 40 mob drops 2200 adena..... But this is fine? If think there is a lot of adena in the economy your wrong.
It is not going to be sucked out if it's not going to be collected. You want to spend 250 mil on a book but you haven't provided 250 mil adena worth of value to your fellow players? Tough luck ("sucks to be you"), but you can still hope that the price will drop in the next update, as it usually happens.
Economy fails when people rather crush items, sell to npcs then sell to the marketplace. It has hit this point. So the new people don't make enough money to even buy items at crystal price is not a failed economy?
NC devs overdid the drops. People don't need so many items. I've seen 2 moirai shoes drops during one random pickup grinding session. How many moirai shoes do you need?
Your not suppose to be selling full items to npc shops or crushing or selling mats in a real economy.
Are you supposed to sell suede to NPC (as people have been doing for 4 years now, if not more)? Did it mean that there were not enough adena for people to buy suede?
Nope. It did mean that there were too much adena to buy animal bone, which made crafting cost of high grade suede higher than its market value.
When people don't buy metal hardener (the exclusively C-grade crafting material that still drops in some S-grade locations), does it mean that there is not enough adena to buy it?
With the increase in sinks and the decrease in drops the game will collapse after long time players 85+ ones can no longer even upgrade their gear because it cost too much real adena to NPC they have no way to get.
That's OK. Combined with removal of bots, it would show us which players were really worth to be top graders.
IN GOD update 1 sgem = 400k I do not care what you think the database says.
So 2000 s gems = 800 mil is that so hard for you to understand? Please read before you type.
So all your long speech is meaningless.
And when you sell items to a NPC how do lower players get these drops? This is no korea where random people get put in groups or people are even allowed to xp in best areas they are pked out of them. And i want to know what magic wand you have that you got 2 shoe drops in one XP session.
I have xped for about 8 months in Plains of lizardman went from 79 - almost 85 only got 2 full drops 1 gloves and 1 bp. So please explain to me what drops your imagining?
I got vesper and morai sets filling alts wh's from doing zaken 3 times a week with 9 man party. Rune kamaloka is a reliable way to get morai jewelry and beas on a daily basis. I still farm 23rd buff slot books from RB's and sell them for 20mil each. RB always were and still are the best method for getting gear short of spoiling in AL. get a group, pound some kariks and spoil a dozen noble stones. eezy peezy.
As for GoD, wait a while and see what the quest rewards are. you might be able to get some of the stuff for free and save your adena for dumb stuff.
Krissa proved nothing but she cannot read Elmar's translations.
With AA being totally removed a SA on mid S84 weapon is 800 mil in just gems. No magicial way to talk her way around the obvious, gems do not spoil or drop only way to get them to SA an item is to buy them for adena which you need 800 mil of.
Sometimes its like talking to walls in here people cannot see anything but tunnel vision. BIG PICTURE GUYS.
its bad now spud, people sell their mats recs parts, and items to shops instead in the market because they get more money from NPCs then people can afford to buy for them.
As I said before, this is not bad at all. It is a new equilibrium, like it was till now in Korea.
I am seling mats and key mats to shop, dinasty included. Now ppl dont complain about mats and explain how bots save teh game by keeping prices down because they farm those, since we have less farming trains now, prices are down and ppl sell to shop which started to offer competitive prices because they are fixed while the others dropped.
More and more items will go to shops and the adena that leaves the players for NPCs is getting back into game provided we have enough ppl low level that are crafting a grade and b grade because the mats are dirt cheap and shops have high prices, something like what happened with c and d shots.
Adena will leave the market more but the point of equilibrium is already close. The fewer newbies we have, the less adena in the system, however... That is what you get with an unhealthy community and playerbase.
M
Apparently antharas lair drops or spoils s gems now.
this is correct, spoils & drops s gems in DVC but we don't know if the same strategy will be used for the R gems which will cost 1,2Mil each if you have to buy them from NPC..
Originally? From people thinking that using shots and NPC teleports for PvE was a luxury they could not afford.
Currently? From people sellling orichalcum and S grade crystals to NPCs because the S+-grade equipment is so cheap that it's not worth crafting it.
But it doesn't matter where the adena comes from if there are enough adena sinks that are useful to rich and non-necessary to poor.
If adena in L2 keeps decreasing quicker than being replaced (which I guess is already not true for the current Chronos economy), then it means that there is still too much adena in circulation.
Nope, it's you who doesn't understand that there is a direct link between perception of adena shortage in the game and inability to create ingame values useful for others (which is roughly equal to inability to make money in free player-driven economies of L2 servers).
I agree with Sly and your observations lack basic building blocks of logic. Adena in game atm are lot more valuable than it used to be. That is simply because the population of the servers isnt farming as they used to or it is reduced a lot. There are no farmers as they used to be, and lots more of adenas are being sucked by npcs with various ways compared to past.
A verification of the above is in my opinion the prices of adenas when it comes to rl money in various sites.
As of right now I think Lineage 2 has more than enough adena sinks. Increasing adena sinks may be good for Korea for the GoD update, but it would be bad news for the NA/Euro servers.
Our servers don't have inflation to deal with, but deflation. In other words, people do not have enough adena to pay below NPC prices for many goods, which is why people are selling to NPC's instead of other players. This is what Slycutter is pointing out, and I agree with him.
IN GOD update 1 sgem = 400k I do not care what you think the database says.
Show me Elmar's translation that says that 1 S gem = 400 k in GoD update.
So 2000 s gems = 800 mil is that so hard for you to understand? Please read before you type.
Of course it is so hard to understand, for everyone, not only for me. Why would you need top S80 (former top S84) weapon in GoD, when everyone around you is in R-grade, and if you need, why can't you farm AL for S gems? That's even if that weapon is still SA-ed in the old pre-GoD way and doesn't just get the SA when unsealed.
And when you sell items to a NPC how do lower players get these drops?
If some stuff could be useful to my clannies or friends, of course I wouldn't be selling it to NPCs.
This is no korea where random people get put in groups or people are even allowed to xp in best areas they are pked out of them.
First of all, they are wiped by mobs. But I'm not speaking about the best areas here.
And i want to know what magic wand you have that you got 2 shoe drops in one XP session.
I have xped for about 8 months in Plains of lizardman went from 79 - almost 85 only got 2 full drops 1 gloves and 1 bp. So please explain to me what drops your imagining?
It was in a random archer-melee party in DV, on the leech spot closest to the entrance. However, some archer took the effort to organize this party, instead of mindlessly grinding in the Plains.
not sure what the ppl complaining in this forum are doing wrong as of today i still have no problem to make adena.
The way i see it, in relation to this and other posts, people blame adena sinks in game and how ppl sell what they get to the npc store instead of other players because other players cant afford it. im not sure where these people play, i still see buy shops for billions of adena worth in consumables (ke, stones, crystals, mastery books, giant codexes, crystals).
Most players in game get moirai recs, icarus recs and some of them randomly some vesper.
The vast mayority of the people who have been taking advantage of the recent xp events, the new xp system and so on dont want icarus, dont want moirai, the dont even want (for the most part) vesper armors, the want vesper weapons and vorpal armors.
Look around in the market and u'll see what i mean. When moirai came out i sold bp parts for up to 12 mill adena each and i couldnt farm them fast enough, now they sell for scrap or i npc them directly, not because omg no one can afford them, no one wants them, none of the big clans or the players who have recently xped to 84/85 want that, they want the beter gear.
Before people sold element stones for up to 60 mill each, then as more people were capable of farming them prices went down and down and down and down and now they sell for under 1 mill ea. Do you not see buyshops in town for hundreds of stones?
The only problem i see with game economy is that people have flooded the market with what used to be expensive items and have driven the price down.
I've talked to a lot of people in game, just out of curiosity, people xp in areas with quests and.... don't take them. The reason is always the same, well quests have never given any adena.
Last weekend i xped and got 123 million adena worth of quest items, this doesnt count the stones, the adena drops or the other quest rewards which i'm still trying to sell (123 mill is from icarus recs sold to npc). Even if i divided this by the people in party (7 party members at all times) and if i sold the stones which i use to element my armors and weapons (100 holy stones) and the full drops, vesper boots, vesper necklace and vesper earring that would roughly, at current market prices, give each party member 50 million adena, not counting adena drops which amount to about another 20 million ea. So 70 million adena for a weekend xp session.
Im sure if all the people who are so worried about game adena banded together and made some nice xp parties they would make more than decent adena.
The adena sinks are a luxury, as far as i know even in real life, luxuries are more expensive because they make life (ingame, xping, pvping) easier and more pleasent.
Krissa proved nothing but she cannot read Elmar's translations.
With AA being totally removed a SA on mid S84 weapon is 800 mil in just gems. No magicial way to talk her way around the obvious, gems do not spoil or drop only way to get them to SA an item is to buy them for adena which you need 800 mil of.
Sometimes its like talking to walls in here people cannot see anything but tunnel vision. BIG PICTURE GUYS.
So you are telling us that you were able to "farm" all the AA -> Gemstones S needed to SA a mid S84 Weapon ? Because 1073 Gemstones S is 100+ mil AA. I can't imagine how the heck someone could farm 100 mil AA just to SA a weapon. You entered a catacomb and you got out 6 months later ?
Krissa got it correct. What you miss is a simple fact. Just being able to "generate" 100 mill AA directly aka "farm" 1073 GemS create the false impression that it's "more" doable than generating 400mil adena. No, it's not unless you are a bot or brain damaged. Because only a bot or a seriously brain damaged human being could really farm directly AA -> 1073 GemS.
The time / effort to do it would be insane. OFC it's feels easier if you like to trick yourself thinking "OK, I need 1073 GemS, I will go cata's farm a lot and I get them". No you won't. It's easier to stay in catas farming for 6 months for GemS than trying to get good groups, make good trades etc but that does not mean it's doable. Noone could stay playing there 4 hrs a day, every day for 6 months doing nothing else. And even if someone could really do that, GemS "created" would not compensate for all other aspects of the game lost in the process.
Apart from that, even if you could farm 1073 GemS in a timely fashion that does not change their value in adena. Beeing able to farm them does not mean they are free, they still have a value of 400m adena. So there are really 2 options here
1) Farming 1073 GemS has the same problems as farming 400M adena (whichever way anyone can imagine, trading, selling dops / mats / raid loot, farm TW, farm stones etc)
2) Farming 1073 GemS is much easier than generating an income of 400M adena.
My answer is that Option 2) cannot hold true. If it hold true that would be for a while untill most ppl realise that, start farming AA in quantities and move the equilibrium to the "correct" value of Adena <-> AA <-> GemS. Then ppl would stop farming whatever they farm now and would all go to catas again.
It's the same ilusion casual 80+ players had 1 yr ago that they could buy an Icarus Weapon and slowly SA it and build up to 300 Element. They have never calculated that by the time they were able to farm GemS + Stones to make the weapon they would have to spend triple amount of adena. Maybe not directly, but the market price of the materials needed would be (if sold) much higher than the weapon produced. So after farming for months they ended up blowing 1 bil to produce a semi-decent weapon 220 Element that they could not sell to anyone and at the same time the Sa'd 300 Element weapon could be bought for 600M. So yes, there was the ilusion of beeing able to do it yourself just farming only the needed items. But in reality, the time / effort / adena needed was much more than just patiently gathering 600M by selling what you farmed to "elite" and rich buyer that could really afford / need it and buying a ready weapon.
Game was always like that. If you were on top you could always afford to be first using the simple mechanism of crafting the weapon, farming the crystal, buying the AA, farming the stones. If you were not on top, that process would make you broke. Because untill completed you would end up with an item which on the one hand it costed a lot and on the other hand majority of population does not really need (including yourself).
And that's the real reason ppl "feel" poor now. They had 200 mil that made them "feel" rich but that 200 mil could not buy them an A-Grade Weapon. Now they have 100 mill that makes them "feel" poor because it's half of what they were used to ignoring the fact that they can buy 5 A-Grade Weapons.
They had 200 Metalic Fiber that made them "feel" rich because they could sell to other players for 500K and now they have 20K metalic fiber that make them feel "poor" because they can only sell to NPC ignoring the fact that it would net them more than 500K.
You had 500 mil making you feel rich but that could not buy you a semi decent Dynasty Set. You have 300 mill making you feel "poor" even though it can buy you a full Moirai Set.
I have no clue why you think it takes a long time to farm 107 mil aa. I leveled a sub and pet up in catacomb this last week to test my idea and made almost 10 mil AA in witches. Also made 5 mil in real adena and another 2 mil in junk sold to the npc.
Even if AA drops dont increase as you level (which they do) it would only take about 10 weeks and i would of finished my sub and have a level 80 Pet when im done.
But apparently your all under the delusion the economy is fine LOL go with that. I am tired of arguing people who can see past their own nose think the economy is ***** and some of them are some the richest people on the server, I rather take the opinions of the richiest server players then some people who have no clue how to play the game.
Show me Elmar's translation that says that 1 S gem = 400 k in GoD update.
Of course it is so hard to understand, for everyone, not only for me. Why would you need top S80 (former top S84) weapon in GoD, when everyone around you is in R-grade, and if you need, why can't you farm AL for S gems? That's even if that weapon is still SA-ed in the old pre-GoD way and doesn't just get the SA when unsealed.
If some stuff could be useful to my clannies or friends, of course I wouldn't be selling it to NPCs.
First of all, they are wiped by mobs. But I'm not speaking about the best areas here.
It was in a random archer-melee party in DV, on the leech spot closest to the entrance. However, some archer took the effort to organize this party, instead of mindlessly grinding in the Plains.
LOL Archer/melee party? sure that worked out wonderfully, and you didnt get pked by nova by standing there? ROFLOL keep living in you fantasy world archers dont xp with Melee for a huge host of reasons.
Its either an archer party or a melee party not both. Any archer will tell you Money in Plains/Xp in plains > Anything else in the game, it is why you even see Nova archers there.
Until the market crashed on me before High Five I was easily making 200 - 250 mil a week. Now i barely break 100 mil a week. I am very rich, I got more money and better stuff then you would ever imagine or come close to getting. So please stuff when you trying to tell me how to make money.
I been making money since Prelude, but as it is now market is dead and everyone can realize that and in GOD its only to get worse.
LOL Archer/melee party? sure that worked out wonderfully,
That worked well enough. My not-so-random parties work better, but only because they have stronger DDs overall.
and you didnt get pked by nova by standing there?
By Nova? In DV? Why would they PK there?
We have seen some PvPs, though, for example, between AE and RR.
Any archer will tell you Money in Plains/Xp in plains > Anything else in the game,
Then don't cry about not seeing full drops.
Until the market crashed on me before High Five I was easily making 200 - 250 mil a week. Now i barely break 100 mil a week.
About the same as me (when I care about putting up my shops these days).
Yep, the services of shifting stuff from bots to adena buyers aren't so well rewarded these days.
I have no clue why you think it takes a long time to farm 107 mil aa.
Because we all have been in catacombs.
I leveled a sub and pet up in catacomb this last week to test my idea and made almost 10 mil AA in witches. Also made 5 mil in real adena and another 2 mil in junk sold to the npc.
A week .. Playing how many hours / day ?
As a side note ..
In GOD catacombs are closed .. Any idea NCSOFT is doing that ?
I guess not because many ppl get rich there and there is AA inflation .. I guess not because AA was a succesfull idea and ppl like it .. Most probably because the project was never successful and never embraced by ppl. You know why ? Because ppl for some reason did not go there to farm their own AA. That made AA way more expensive than originally intended. Why majority would prefer to buy overpriced AA than going and farm ? I only see 2 options
a) Farming AA does not worth it (meaning you can get more using your time in some other creative activity)
b) Amount of AA needed makes it impossible to farm on your own
Another side note .. NCSOFT set a standard 1/4 conversion ratio. Any idea way it was much higher before ? I guess not because it was easier to farm AA than adena. If it was then it should be the other way round. AA valued less in adena.
Last, have you tried to farm AA with a level 85 toon ? Have you tried to compare the net income playing that toon 2 hours solo in catacombs and 2 hours solo at another spot ? Or better 2 hours in full party on another spot ?
Until the market crashed on me before High Five I was easily making 200 - 250 mil a week. Now i barely break 100 mil a week.
You are fooling yourself if you believe that you got that amount of money because of less adena sinks / better drops / slower leveling of poor legit players ...
On the other hand the ratio you are presenting seems very good. You are making 2.5 times less adena now but all the comparable things pre/post High five are at least 2.5 times cheaper.
If a magic wand touched the game and you were making again 250 mil / week all comparable things would eventually be priced 2.5 times more. So it's the same again.
Buying items from NPC feeling" like 2.5 times cheaper is not an argument because items of also sold to NPC "feeling" like 2.5 times cheaper.
Before the Merge on Dev I got my Icarus Spitter +3 w/focus and 150 element for 200 mil.
Today sells for 350 mil.
Before the Merge on Dev I got my Moiria light set for 150 mil.
Today sells for 275 mil - 300 mil.
Before the merge I got my Zaken earring for 250 mil
Today sells for 600 mil.
So for S80 + the prices have increased and not dropped.
Right now there is about 4 people trying to selling a Mid 84 bow in giran for 700 - 800 mil same people been trying to sell it for weeks. They refuse to budge on their prices, so you theory does not hold true.
For use items like Element stones, scrolls etc. yea market is cheaper for actual gear its more expensive.
There is some lag from the last update of High five as the drop in prices hasn't caught up with the upper level gear yet. Basically, those players will eventually be forced to sell lower, or NPC it.
No mistake about it, the NA/EU servers are in a deflationary period.
Crafting needs to become relevant again, which is why I think that is what GoD will attempt to address. It is a difficult balancing act though. If vitality effects the drop rates of full common and regular items too much, no one will bother crafting. If Vitality effects doesn't effect the mat drop rate, no one will bother crafting the gear either.
Allowing everyone to craft, is a a big, big hint that they want to make crafting relevant again to jump start the player economy.
But the concern of adding too many adena sinks is a real concern, as is the concern of not enough adena sinks to counter act vitality effecting drops. We simply don't know based on the information we are privy too as it could go either way.
I got my Icarus Spitter +3 w/focus and 150 element for 200 mil.
And what was its price before the merge on Phoenix?
Today sells for 350 mil.
3 weeks ago I bought Vorpal Stockings for 100mil (and there were shops @120mil as well). Today it "sells" for 200mil. That shows a lot of adena flown into the economy in the last 3 weeks, doesn't it? :rolleyes:
Care to explain that effect to me?
Easily.
If people sell stuff for much higher than its crafting value, they expect buyers that for some reason refuse to craft the stuff by themselves.
They need to fix crafting, we should not lose everything when we fail a craft. The only thing I feel we should lose is the basic materials on a 60-70% failed craft attempt. Maybe that would entice the masses to surge back into the crafting of items verses straight out purchasing. This is a key problem with our economy and has been mentioned but NCSoft has never addressed this huge problem.
The average person veers away from this simulated gambling mechanic within L2. The loss of all those items is devastating to a majority of our population and has turned many off from crafting permanently.
Did someone finally evolve a brain over there O.O
don't need 30k bones and 25k animal skins
but still the 60% CAN'T Stand those, with my success rate being 2 in 10 attempts
let me think about crafting here....humm NO
Give me back 100% recs even at double the mats
And everyone keeps missing the point where is the mythical adena coming from that is leaving the economy.
When a power player buys a piece of elegia from auction at 1 billion adena, that billion adena is sucked out the economy never to be replaced.
I have a clannie that has gone from 1 - 62 and has only 11 mil in adena which cannot even buy him gear from npc shop in town for agrade. He is leveling to fast to keep up with the adena and mats he needs to gear himself.
But im sure you say he can't make money so please oh wise ones how does a level 50 something toon make money because nothing they can farm is going to be needed from people with money.
And everyone keeps missing the point where is the mythical adena coming from that is leaving the economy.
When a power player buys a piece of elegia from auction at 1 billion adena, that billion adena is sucked out the economy never to be replaced.
I have a clannie that has gone from 1 - 62 and has only 11 mil in adena which cannot even buy him gear from npc shop in town for agrade. He is leveling to fast to keep up with the adena and mats he needs to gear himself.
But im sure you say he can't make money so please oh wise ones how does a level 50 something toon make money because nothing they can farm is going to be needed from people with money.
Adena drops, and people selling thier junk mats to the NPC can account for it. let's think about this now for a minute. Lets say there are 2000 people that actively play on a server. Lets say they average about 1 mil adena per day. that is 2 BILLION adena being generated each day. In reality, the number is probably much higher than that.
And everyone keeps missing the point where is the mythical adena coming from that is leaving the economy.
When a power player buys a piece of elegia from auction at 1 billion adena, that billion adena is sucked out the economy never to be replaced.
I have a clannie that has gone from 1 - 62
So, did that billion adena come from your A-grade clannie?
and has only 11 mil in adena
Well, I guess it didn't :rolleyes:
which cannot even buy him gear from npc shop in town for agrade. He is leveling to fast to keep up with the adena and mats he needs to gear himself.
But im sure you say he can't make money so please oh wise ones how does a level 50 something toon make money because nothing they can farm is going to be needed from people with money.
As I said, Giran, around Mages Guild, at ingame night. He can send those proofs to Krissa by CoD @300a. He has saved a lot of weeks of grinding for levels, compared to us, now he can afford to spend a few days on grinding for wealth.
(And btw, I wish I could afford wearing A-grade at 62 back in C5)
I have a clannie that has gone from 1 - 62 and has only 11 mil in adena which cannot even buy him gear from npc shop in town for agrade. He is leveling to fast to keep up with the adena and mats he needs to gear himself.
But im sure you say he can't make money so please oh wise ones how does a level 50 something toon make money because nothing they can farm is going to be needed from people with money.
I agree with you alot Sly, but he could of had plenty of $$ for A grade if he got into some Territory Wars parties after he hit lvl 40.
We have clan members in my clan who can put 7....40+ toons thru each Territory War battle for $$
I have a clannie that has gone from 1 - 62 and has only 11 mil in adena which cannot even buy him gear from npc shop in town for agrade. He is leveling to fast to keep up with the adena and mats he needs to gear himself.
This is being fixed by the revamped Item System (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3068351&postcount=1).
An S Grade Weapon will cost 5 mills in the store.
The dumbest move was introducing Brez, Bsoe and CP Pots. :P
Brez and Bsoes are being removed from Mammons, and somewhere in the Q&A they said something about CP pots and cooldown.
I wonder what gonna happen if the gov print 4x more money than they have now printed and start paying 4x more to the ppl , i guess ppl will have 4x more money , the prices will stay the same , and the currency will keep its value vs other kind of currency
I wonder what gonna happen if the gov print 4x more money than they have now printed and start paying 4x more to the ppl , i guess ppl will have 4x more money , the prices will stay the same , and the currency will keep its value vs other kind of currency
Dollars in circulation is artificially increased x4
Commodities production remains the same
Option A) Stupid OPEC keeps selling oil for 100$ / barrel
Option B) OPEC starts charging 400$ / barrel
Option A) Stupid precious metal traders keep gold at 1500$/ounce
Option B) Precious metal traders start selling gold for 6000$/ounce
Apart from that simple examples you can already see what happens when "extra" money is printed.
Check €/$ ratio and Oil prices last months. The only reason € keeps its high value and oil prices are rising is because of US printing a bit more than usually
Dollars in circulation is artificially increased x4
Commodities production remains the same
Option A) Stupid OPEC keeps selling oil for 100$ / barrel
Option B) OPEC starts charging 400$ / barrel
Option A) Stupid precious metal traders keep gold at 1500$/ounce
Option B) Precious metal traders start selling gold for 6000$/ounce
Apart from that simple examples you can already see what happens when "extra" money is printed.
Check €/$ ratio and Oil prices last months. The only reason € keeps its high value and oil prices are rising is because of US printing a bit more than usually
you are confused mr doe, your examples only fool the uneducated.
increasing adena drops is not the same as printing more money. you need to relook what you are trying to say and really think about what you are preaching.
Its not adena that needs to be more accesible in L2.
In fact adena is quite worthless in this game since there is nothing beside soul ores soe's and spirit ores worth purchasing...
The real problem in this game is that armors weapons and SA's on weapons are **** hard to get by hunting alone...
Leveling crystals for SA's has become a big elite clan only happening too..
THAT should change!
Dollars in circulation is artificially increased x4
Commodities production remains the same
Option A) Stupid OPEC keeps selling oil for 100$ / barrel
Option B) OPEC starts charging 400$ / barrel
Option A) Stupid precious metal traders keep gold at 1500$/ounce
Option B) Precious metal traders start selling gold for 6000$/ounce
Apart from that simple examples you can already see what happens when "extra" money is printed.
Check €/$ ratio and Oil prices last months. The only reason € keeps its high value and oil prices are rising is because of US printing a bit more than usually
RL examples do not work because there is no money sinks IRL.
You buy a barrel of oil for $100 or $400 the money goes to a CEO the ceo gets a haircut and a meal, money keeps going around the economy.
L2 you buy soul ore or enchant a skill the money is sucked out the economy. This not very difficult economics issues how dumb are people on this forum?
your point will matter if adena was "printed" only by NC and given out to the players and there is set amount of adena in the game , but EVERY player can "print" adena , and if there are no adena sinks , by now there will be **** load of adena in the game and adena value will be a lot lower than it is now , the ppl that play the game for years will have proly 100 times more adena or even more , and the items prices will be a lot higher , since old players control most of the adena and pay a lot . So if you are new player you will need not 4x more adena drop for wich you cry , you will need 100x+ adena drop so you can buy some decent gear (s80,s84)
Its not adena that needs to be more accesible in L2.
In fact adena is quite worthless in this game since there is nothing beside soul ores soe's and spirit ores worth purchasing...
The real problem in this game is that armors weapons and SA's on weapons are **** hard to get by hunting alone...
Leveling crystals for SA's has become a big elite clan only happening too..
THAT should change!
THAT is the real problem
I do agree that rather than a specific adena issue, the SA 'problem' is well overdue a 'fix'. Even though there are hunting spots which now drop GemS, a 'regular pve clan' probably doesnt have a hope of helping their members get them because the place is so tough, and they probably still undergeared etc. SA's all the way from Dynasty upwards is a REDICULAS cost in GemS, and although touched on with the update, its still nowhere near 'easy enough' to collect them through hunting. You could level all the way to 85 in this game and never have a single GemS drop; thats a fact.
Its not adena that needs to be more accesible in L2.
In fact adena is quite worthless in this game since there is nothing beside soul ores soe's and spirit ores worth purchasing...
The real problem in this game is that armors weapons and SA's on weapons are **** hard to get by hunting alone...
Leveling crystals for SA's has become a big elite clan only happening too..
THAT should change!
THAT is the real problem
dude, i dont wanna play alone, if u wanna play alone - go change game. wha is problem to u - is no problem for me.
Its not adena that needs to be more accesible in L2.
In fact adena is quite worthless in this game since there is nothing beside soul ores soe's and spirit ores worth purchasing...
Oh really?
Every time I try to enchant a few skills to +15 (mind me, it's just +15, not +30 like everyone else do!), or to get another augment, it takes around 150 mil adena (at least).
Since the market has collapsed (gone are the days when I made billions from Varka by selling S-grade recipes for 300 mil each), the only reliable way of getting adena that's left for me is farm it, slowly and painfully. If I get 3 mil adena per hour it makes me happy enough, but when I think of how many days it would take me to amass a billion or two, it makes me upset, since I rarely play more than 2 hours a day...
Oh really?
Every time I try to enchant a few skills to +15 (mind me, it's just +15, not +30 like everyone else do!), or to get another augment, it takes around 150 mil adena (at least).
Since the market has collapsed (gone are the days when I made billions from Varka by selling S-grade recipes for 300 mil each), the only reliable way of getting adena that's left for me is farm it, slowly and painfully. If I get 3 mil adena per hour it makes me happy enough, but when I think of how many days it would take me to amass a billion or two, it makes me upset, since I rarely play more than 2 hours a day...
To make it clear no i don't play alone i play in a constant.
Waw u make 3 mill per hour ? More then me, dit u count off the costs of shots u used etc ?
billions are generally made on rare items, or seeing a shop opportunity one buying for higher then one selling, btw look out for buyshops now, they tend to buy stuff UNDER npc seller prices, certainly on mats!
For what concerns OE skills, i never bought a single books and i leave suffiscient time between enchanting to not feel the cost overload me.
RL examples do not work because there is no money sinks IRL.
You buy a barrel of oil for $100 or $400 the money goes to a CEO the ceo gets a haircut and a meal, money keeps going around the economy.
RL has more sinks of $ then L2.
Let say ...500 milions of people who use cars to get to work.
They burn increneble amount of Petrol (100$/barrel?) ...even if they could use public transport, but they prefer burn their cash :)
They buy tones of silver/gold/cadmium/etc ... in single use products like batters/toys/portable game pads/telephones ( as they got lifetime less then 1 year!) ... to throw it away just to had fun for a moment ....
Finally, we just vaporising gazilion of $, producing more efficient and more deadly weapons what get decommissioned in secret military bases...
Real difference is, in RL you can't really argue about facts as they are, you mostly can't change anything, while about L2 world you can.
Hence, still you can pretend that if you close eyes world is disappearing for that short moment and you rule the world :)
RL has more sinks of $ then L2.
Let say ...500 milions of people who use cars to get to work.
They burn increneble amount of Petrol (100$/barrel?) ...even if they could use public transport, but they prefer burn their cash :)
Does your car run on banknotes?
Mine doesn't. When I buy its fuel, my money is not "burned", but got transferred to the seller of the fuel.
There are money sources and money sinks IRL, but they aren't trivial. Money sources are credits. Money sink is repayment of principal (payment of interest is not a money sink).
Mine doesn't. When I buy its fuel, my money is not "burned", but got transferred to the seller of the fuel.
There are money sources and money sinks IRL, but they aren't trivial. Money sources are credits. Money sink is repayment of principal (payment of interest is not a money sink).
Small reminder. Dollars are just ONLY currency what you exchange goods.
You burn it in that meaning like Nevirt/SS burn Adena.
People could use bicycle/walk and not spend money on petrol.
And what you are doing in car you destroy that goods changing it, into movement and heat.
(Let consider your trip to visit parents as example ;) )
Pure waste of dollars, nothing more.
So if you consider entire value of 'earth', we day by day eat some value of it.
Because all used to count value in dolars ... we can say you burn them.
Look at that, you've gave someone 100 $ to get petrol ... but 1h later you'll destroy it and no way to get it back.
Yea, he has some paper .. but if you burn all petrol in earth, is he still is able to exchange same 100$ to petrol?
No, because we talk about value of goods not number of dollars/adena what are medium of exchange.
So we burn/crush/drawn/dig dollars .. but some smart people in FED printing them as hell to keep illusion :)
RL examples do not work because there is no money sinks IRL.
You buy a barrel of oil for $100 or $400 the money goes to a CEO the ceo gets a haircut and a meal, money keeps going around the economy.
L2 you buy soul ore or enchant a skill the money is sucked out the economy. This not very difficult economics issues how dumb are people on this forum?
well thats not entirely true now is it.
if your country trades its country's currency with another country, that money circulates in a different economy. with enough money spent by major corporations employing labor in foreign countries those countries experience economic growth and the dollar grows, eventually to be stronger than the domestic dollar. this is how asia got so big and powerful.
this is also why africa is still so poor. this is yet also why the euro and USD are at cut-throat competition. the people want to be paid in Euros, but the US wants to pay them in USD.
Small reminder. Dollars are just ONLY currency what you exchange goods.
You burn it in that meaning like Nevirt/SS burn Adena.
Nope, I don't. I have paid in cash, and the dollars are still here, and I can rob or scam the petrol station personnel to get them back.
But when you bought the Nevit's Hourglass, your adena is gone from the server, you cannot scam the NPC and get your adena back.
So if you consider entire value of 'earth', we day by day eat some value of it.
Because all used to count value in dolars ... we can say you burn them.
You can say whatever you want, but some things sound more stupid than others. If you count your petrol in barrels, do you burn those barrels when you burn your petrol?
When I buy its fuel, my money is not "burned", but got transferred to the seller of the fuel.
When you use your adena(in adena sinks) , your adena isnt "burned" , but got transferred to the monster so they can drop it again
you work for company A , you get paid , you buy goods from company B , company B pay for work to company A
you kill mobs , you get adena , you buy goods from NPC's , NPC's give the adena to the mobs
I am not having any trouble adequately equipping my S84 main and all three S-grade-or-higher subs with level-appropriate equipment with even my modest playtime.
Do I have elite +6/+7 S86 gear and 5/5 epics? no... but given my playtime, I wasn't expecting that.
I've gotten everything with just grinding, giran market skills, and some clan support for proper grinding locations. (no clan equipment whatsoever)
Adena doesn't seem to be a problem provided you have a head for the market and know how to hunt for what is in demand.
H5 made adena relatively easy to rebuild by just normal grinding. (cheap shots, more regular codex/stone/crystal drops) I am not sure how anyone 80+ isn't making plenty of income each night on just normal drops. (my luck is horrid... the rest of the group will get 3 drops to my 1)
Those of you with even moderately organized raiding clans should be able to make more adena together in raids.
Since L2 seems to be getting easier and easier, I expect GoD will take it one step furthur.
I remember having to level 3 alt dorfs just to afford D grade. Now if you have trouble before S, you are just plain doing it wrong.
You can say whatever you want, but some things sound more stupid than others. If you count your petrol in barrels, do you burn those barrels when you burn your petrol?
I'm not going fight to last drop of mine blood to convince you.
You are talking literally about dollars in global market.
Yes if we talk about pure dollars number it is not common that they are 'destroyed' (FED is doing it burning old notes or some are just physically destroyed in some disasters/accidents or gone in banking/insurance/reassurance chains)
I know what you are referring to ... just last bit from me at money topic.
What I'm trying to say.
Dollars are medium to exchange goods.
When you don't have goods to exchange dollars are just paper worth as paper is.
We do producing goods/wealth that increase our "total value "
Same time we do waste all goods (goods what have some exchange rate into dollars oil/gas <> dollars).
For now we do "produce" more than we "waste" so globally we are more rich.
"Produce" not in meaning mining/digging/drilling, but in meaning turning into goods what have value and they are exchange in global market (with profit most cases).
"Waste" turning into goods what not increase global value as they are once used. They loose all value without chance to be reuse or turing them back to 'valuable' goods (extreme example - atomic bomb in rocket - cost millions but once used it, it just disappear - sometimes with other goods and dollars ;) )
We consume our wealth, as in mine initial example, turning oil into heat.
In 100 years (maybe 300? 500?), whatever amount of dollars you have in pocket you will not be able to exchange it, into oil at gas station, when that natural resources will gone.
No big deal you can use some other goods to turn to movement (&heat)
But when it same happen to all resources (a bit theoretical case, I know), you can enjoy artificial amounts at stock-markets and billions at bank accounts but those are just numbers - no real value.
We have initial richness due to huge earth resources(*).
You can have billions but if number of goods to exchange is very limited (or gone), prices are sky high.
In fact you have nothing, even if there were no physical destroying of Dollars, and all have gigantic amounts of 'treasury' in stocks/papers/notes.
It is because we have continuous leakage of our wealthy even if pure observation of dollars is not giving such impression especially as we day by day produce new goods and we are more wealthy.
(*) in fact L2 is in better situation it has really unlimited resources you can slay same mob billions of times, while we already have found that it doesn't work in natural environment :)
Without those NPC leakage L2 world would suffer dramatical inflation.
Ufff that was too much .. but I would be sick if I wouldn't post it :)
P.S. That black scenario of vaporising all goods possible never happen but in that example I can show what I was referring to.
P.S.S. Sorry for wall of text and OT. As long someone not call me $%#*^$% I will not type anything in that topic :D
increasing adena drops is not the same as printing more money. you need to relook what you are trying to say and really think about what you are preaching.
And you base that on ?
Because according to what we have all seen in L2 till now the effects were the same.
Have you ever observed something else than following ?
More Adena -> Inflated market
Printing Money -> Inflated Prices
Less Adena -> Deflated Market
Less Money -> Deflating Prices
Plz share with me an example either in L2 or in real economy that worked the opposite way
RL examples do not work because there is no money sinks IRL.
You buy a barrel of oil for $100 or $400 the money goes to a CEO the ceo gets a haircut and a meal, money keeps going around the economy.
L2 you buy soul ore or enchant a skill the money is sucked out the economy. This not very difficult economics issues how dumb are people on this forum?
Yes, is you look at it from a pure theoretical standpoint. Adena in L2 is vanished but money in a real economy does not auto magically "disappear".
On the other hand the real impact is the same. Because you forget 2 things.
1) Real money is created out of thin air and not always proportionally to generated products (in contrast to L2 where no one decides to create something which has not an 1-1 relation to players actions). A Central Bank decides how much money will "print" or better deposit on a special account of a commercial bank or better regulate the amount of Government Bonds issued by making their independant monetary policy.
2) From a practical standpoint, adena "vanishing" and money stockpiling into Cayman Islands Banks, or gold burried in safes 10 meters under earth, or commodity exchange rights in some Zurich treasury have the exact same effect for the average 95% population. It's something that does not concern them, they cant reach it, it does not interfere with their every day lifes in a direct way. It's the same for me if a toon that possesses 10 bil Adena spends 500M OE'ing skills with some rich guyt that possesses 1 bil $ and buy's 50M of CDS's. Both actions give an "advantage" depending to the situation, both actions concern adena / money that was not mine, bot actions effectively make an amount of adena / money disappear
If your reference had to do not with the inflation but with adena sinks and their real world I would suggest you to make a small research of the impact of interest rates.
If you follow the whole idea you will see that that's a real life money sink. The only difference is that money does not disappear but stay in the system as loans and dept that get higher and higher. You buy something of great value, and money does not disappear but then you create a future obligation for money that does not even exist. That extra money is supposedly created according to a 2%-3% growth and justify a 2%-3% inflation. That quantities are heavily regulated (in theory) by monetary policies of Central Banks without much success if you follow recent history.
So, no money is burned. But there is always need for money that does not exist to pay all future obligations. A notable example would that World Wide Economy runs on a deficit, that's a paradox but it holds true. We owe money to Mars ? The balance should be 0, after all only on earth we print money. The explanation is very simple. We don't burn money (so there is less) but we found a way to always miss some money (so there is always need for new loans that make the system tick).
So, in a real world economy we don't have NPC's that make money disappear, we have their closest equivalent, complex financial structured "products", complex monetary policies, complex lending policies that eventually create a dept for something money never created. But creating a dept - obligation for money never created (aka missing money) is the exact same as evaporating adena to NPC. Someone is benefited in the process aka specific toon / investor, money is out of the system aka adena sink / bank deposits.
And if you observer the effects it's always the same.
If a (country / server) faces a (dept / adena shortage) ( 90% workforce / 90% players) find it harder doing the same and have to work a bit more, a bit better for a bit less ..
And that's not some kind of conspiracy theories, it's fundamental monetary policy, basic economy classes taught on all universities around the globe.
You could check yourself for an over-simplfied explanation by checking even with wikipedia for terms like
Money Creation
Monetary Policy
Fiat Currency
Interest Rates
Thing you ll find out will feel very strange, will feel as fundamentally wrong, truth is, for good or bad, that this is how Scientists things should work for a stable system.
As a side note, while unlike real world economies each person does not have even a limited ability to create even the slightest amount of money aka print 1$/month on it's own (unlike L2 where you can do it even by hitting a level 1 mob with pure hands) , there are some kind of sinks that absorb money, that control the excess flow. When there are some inflationary pressures central banks make some money disappear from general reach by just increasing interest rates. That way some commercial banks are "forced" to lend a bit less for a bit more and on the same time offer more for deposits. That way some amount of money "disappears" from free flow in 2 ways. Moved from market / production / investing to bank accounts and creating a bit more of dept.
The real problem with adena and the market is that people are out to sell their own products with no regard for the consequences to the market.
Take the KE market for example, a luxury that started selling at 50,000 adena each, one that today sells for 7,200 to 7,500 adena each, it is still a luxury, even more so today when the more enchanted your skills are the more traded items you get to enchant your skills on the GoD update.
I've tested the market several times, set up 5 different shops selling ke at 20,000 adena each, next day other stores bumped up their prices to 17,000 to 19,000. So i left the stores for a few days and the prices pretty much stayed at the new level. I then retired all my stores and watch the prices drop to what they were before with each store undercutting the next and so on.
The other day i tested the ke market again, set up shop at 9,000 each, soon enough stores started standing up and increased their price to a bit lower than mine.
In my opinion, the problem is not the adena drops, the item drops, the frequency or the amount. The problem is the market itself, you all talk about real life examples, i believe you forget one very important factor, lineage II has no agreements, no unions or anything to keep people from undercutting each other over and over again just to sell their own product and make that fast adena they want to get whatever it is they believe they need. The only difference from before to now is that not everyone had access to areas where you can get good decent profitable drops and now everyone pretty much does.
Take another example wind stones used to sell for 60,000,000 each, you can now buy them for 1,000,000 each. You would think that with the new system where you can trade regular stones + adena for crystals, prices would increase, it would be the case if almost everyone in the server didn't have access to areas where windstones drop.
I could list many more examples but i think is not necessary.
The real problem with adena and the market is that people are out to sell their own products with no regard for the consequences to the market.
Take the KE market for example, a luxury that started selling at 50,000 adena each, one that today sells for 7,200 to 7,500 adena each, it is still a luxury, even more so today when the more enchanted your skills are the more traded items you get to enchant your skills on the GoD update.
I've tested the market several times, set up 5 different shops selling ke at 20,000 adena each, next day other stores bumped up their prices to 17,000 to 19,000. So i left the stores for a few days and the prices pretty much stayed at the new level. I then retired all my stores and watch the prices drop to what they were before with each store undercutting the next and so on.
The other day i tested the ke market again, set up shop at 9,000 each, soon enough stores started standing up and increased their price to a bit lower than mine.
In my opinion, the problem is not the adena drops, the item drops, the frequency or the amount. The problem is the market itself, you all talk about real life examples, i believe you forget one very important factor, lineage II has no agreements, no unions or anything to keep people from undercutting each other over and over again just to sell their own product and make that fast adena they want to get whatever it is they believe they need. The only difference from before to now is that not everyone had access to areas where you can get good decent profitable drops and now everyone pretty much does.
Take another example wind stones used to sell for 60,000,000 each, you can now buy them for 1,000,000 each. You would think that with the new system where you can trade regular stones + adena for crystals, prices would increase, it would be the case if almost everyone in the server didn't have access to areas where windstones drop.
I could list many more examples but i think is not necessary.
i can add crafting, although its basicly dead now ,wich is essentially a unlimited service. i never understood ppl that feel they need to price cut on crafting stores, i mean the same amount of crafts will always be made so its in all dwarfs interest to have as high price as possible as a high craft price will ensure a larger profit for all over a longer time. sure, it can be nessicary to lower prices to reflect the price of finnished items but other the that there is no reason to reduce craft store prices.
in an economy where each player is out for themselves you cant really expect ppl not to undercut each other all the time, is a vicious circle, it can oly be fixed if a reasonable minimum price is established by the system, same goes for all the mat prices that are purchased lower than what they sell to the npc, i dont think caping the lower posible prices should be so hard to do, maybe even increasing some of the prices of the mats that sell to the npc. Orichalcum and the high lvl crafting mats sell for a lot more than basic mats, yet there are quest fort those while there is no quest to acquired iron ore, and no, manor is barely functional so i dont even consider that.