Sorry If it has been asked or answered. I have 3 accounts. I play my main account and 2 buffer accounts. I normally play a DoomCryer and a Spectral Dancer as my out of party buffers. When GOD comes out and i make my DoomCryer an Enchanter will that eliminate having to have a Spectra Dancer? Will the Enchanter give me all necesary buffs so I can help my low lvl friends lvl up? Or help my Low lvl toons on my other accounts lvl up? Thanks I appreciate it all.
Sorry If it has been asked or answered. I have 3 accounts. I play my main account and 2 buffer accounts. I normally play a DoomCryer and a Spectral Dancer as my out of party buffers. When GOD comes out and i make my DoomCryer an Enchanter will that eliminate having to have a Spectra Dancer? Will the Enchanter give me all necesary buffs so I can help my low lvl friends lvl up? Or help my Low lvl toons on my other accounts lvl up? Thanks I appreciate it all.
Enchanter will be as having a BD/SwS/WC/OL/Inspector.
You wont need the BD box.
That is great! And there will be no limitations to a lvl 99 partied with a lvl 1? I know the lvl 1 wont get exp but making sure they can party to get the buffs is all!
That is great! And there will be no limitations to a lvl 99 partied with a lvl 1? I know the lvl 1 wont get exp but making sure they can party to get the buffs is all!
Sometimes I wish that a buffer leaving party => buffs gone
maybe add a timer of 5min where buffs become 'inactive' if buffer still isn't back in party, and for every time the buffer disconnects from party the timer is cut in half up to 5 times, after which buffs will just dissapear if buffer d/c again.
Yea boxers will cry rivers if this became the case, but this is a MMORPG, if you can't make friends with enough buffers (just like how you say buffers should make more friends, the difference being that buffers do not have the option of just boxing a buffer... well cos they're already the buffer... and boxing a DD is defeating the purpose of making a buffer main in the first place), then it's your loss.
Yes this is another rant from me from the perspective of a buffer :P
Sometimes I wish that a buffer leaving party => buffs gone
maybe add a timer of 5min where buffs become 'inactive' if buffer still isn't back in party, and for every time the buffer disconnects from party the timer is cut in half up to 5 times, after which buffs will just dissapear if buffer d/c again.
Yea boxers will cry rivers if this became the case, but this is a MMORPG, if you can't make friends with enough buffers (just like how you say buffers should make more friends, the difference being that buffers do not have the option of just boxing a buffer... well cos they're already the buffer... and boxing a DD is defeating the purpose of making a buffer main in the first place), then it's your loss.
Yes this is another rant from me from the perspective of a buffer :P
buffers are rare , find some live ones and ppl would party them :D
other then that stop qq about buffers not getting parties :D
buffers are rare , find some live ones and ppl would party them :D
other then that stop qq about buffers not getting parties :D
Buffers *became* rare after people started boxing
Stop boxing is simple if NCSoft wants to. Just allow only one Lineage 2 client open and block any other client you might want to open. This is easy to implement even at the patcher, once one clicks "Start" and, if finding L2 process becomes dificult, it could be bound to the game guard process or even be controlled by the gameguard update itself, since it is customized for Lineage 2 clients. Just adding a rule to gameguard would stop boxing once and for all and is easy as it doesn't requires a game patch, only a gameguard update.
This would boost Buffers numbers, as well as it would bring back the buff market that helped they in making money...
I think the out of party buffers are great. For people like me who are always online at different times. Its very hard to make friends that I can meet up with and play with. I like the OOP buffers because i can log ON .. log my buffer and get to work. I dont have to wait around and hope somobdy is around.
well for me it started like that but nowadays I use it to start up parties and see how it goes from there..
it's a mixed blessing as in NA the party match system failed whereas it works great in korea and if it would have worked here then except for those really dead/slow moments in the day there should always be ppl online to party with..
Stop boxing is simple if NCSoft wants to. Just allow only one Lineage 2 client open and block any other client you might want to open. This is easy to implement even at the patcher, once one clicks "Start" and, if finding L2 process becomes dificult, it could be bound to the game guard process or even be controlled by the gameguard update itself, since it is customized for Lineage 2 clients. Just adding a rule to gameguard would stop boxing once and for all and is easy as it doesn't requires a game patch, only a gameguard update.
This would boost Buffers numbers, as well as it would bring back the buff market that helped they in making money...
Just a suggestion tho...
I wonder why people always ask for technics to solve an isssue they could afford on their own ...
stop being selfish is the best way to make buffers play again ...
Well I have 3 accounts too and I'm sure, that I will keep all of them.
Next of them I'm sure, if I level up SE,EE,BD,PP,SWS,DC,WS,tank to lvl 83 I will can get much better buff combination what the new Iss Enchanter on 4th class will able to give.
But ofcourse I level up an Iss Enchanter too to 99.
As much as i hate oop buffs, its some that i need often.
My ig time varies a lot and on some days i have only like 1h to spend for the game, so i welcome it to log my buffers and xp then this 1h instead of searching a lot and end if all goes wrong with 0 xp, but 1h spend with "lf xx" shout
Call it bad luck if you want, but I'm really tired of supports coming out of GC/FoG and not playing their char as they should be in party
Want some exemples ?
- SE not doing buffs since "there is a DC"
- SE prefering to heal with Greater Heal rather to recharge the cardinal (oops the wole party is down. Oh the Cardi is oom ! Oh the SE is full mp almost !)
- BD dancing when they want, without any synchro, ******* up the whole s/d pull
- EE overhealing when it's not needed
& again & again
So yes, several times I prefer to dualbox and play 2 chars myself, it's more efficient than those people
Well the same goes for a lot of the ppl. Not buffing, some just do Dances or Songs and dont hit then, DC/OL etc buff and not hit, DD dont do Mainassist.
Think GC made some ppl rly lazy/dumb.
I barely xp in DV with unknown ppl cos i had too often deaths, lol xp/h etc. Hell, i even had a few times SE's their in party not doing the Mass Cure spells when needed ><
Call it bad luck if you want, but I'm really tired of supports coming out of GC/FoG and not playing their char as they should be in party
Want some exemples ?
- SE not doing buffs since "there is a DC"
- SE prefering to heal with Greater Heal rather to recharge the cardinal (oops the wole party is down. Oh the Cardi is oom ! Oh the SE is full mp almost !)
- BD dancing when they want, without any synchro, ******* up the whole s/d pull
- EE overhealing when it's not needed
& again & again
So yes, several times I prefer to dualbox and play 2 chars myself, it's more efficient than those people
-BD standing around doing nothing, just dance and lol around. Asked him to DD and his answer was "Really?" and bsoed to town.
-I died and lost all buffs, asked the WC in party to rebuff me pls. WC does Flame chant and thats it. When asked for more, she says I can give myself the rest (WC was full MP btw). Really? I can give myself Evasion? Berzerker? Prot. Chant? Elements Chant?. Wound up PRing to town since she said she wasnt buffing me.
-SE's doing Greater Heal instead of Major Heal.
-Spoiler at a DV nuker party insisted on meleeing and dying to mobs. Told her to stop melee, just spoil. She stayed on auto-follow then. When told, again, to spoil she answered: "Why do we have to stay on shadow all the time? This is boring" SoEs to town...
-Tank at a DV party goes after a large Leech group and dies. Told him to not to take those groups. 3 mins after rez, he runs for the large groups again, dies, and says the party sucks. Bails after that...
-We get a party together and, after doing full buffs, random person says "Clan is calling" and takes off with full buffs. Yes, people wait for full buffs and then take off to solo.
-DV party with Tank, SE, Bishop, BD, Spoiler, Necro, WC, Summoner, SwS. BD does the wrong dances. When told what to do, he says this is a nuker party, not a melee party. SoEs to town...
Actually, when I see most SE/EE I find where trying to do a party, or in a party I play, I rather prefer to dual my own buffer
90% of people is unaware of SE. They know "GC PT LF STIGMA" whatever that means. And 90% of SE are not SE, they leveled to 85 as STIGMA. I would never expect something better. SE has recharge, has heal, has PoW. But in NA recharge==EE, heal==BP, Pofecy==DC=CoV, Stigma=SE. That's the mentality .. So 90% of SE do nothing else than stigma, 90% of EE do nothing more than mana recharge, 90% of Cardi do nothing more than Heal, 90% of DC do nothing more than CoV.
The other 10% are playing their classes at the full extent. It's the 10% that did not go level 85 as box. And it's usually taken aka missing from server.
Real answer lies 3 posts above .. Quoting part for convenience ..
I like the OOP buffers because i can log ON .. log my buffer and get to work.
No other comment .. Though I could really say a lot .. But .. Most have already been discussed so many times .. Nothing new to contribute ..
Just to make clear that some people took me wrong.
I wasn't saying that box should our shouldn't be allowed. Actually IDC. I only know that, at this time, I have no way to pay for boxes myself.
I only provided knowledge on how simple it would be to block boxing. It is REALLY that simple: 5 minutes messing with game guard rules and the devs are able to sucessfully block it.
But I don't think I want them blocked... Already found a guy boxing a PP and a BD, just asked and he Alt+Tabbed and buffed me, that simple.
NCWest won't disable it as long as the server is that empty... They need that money...
As for myself, I have no opinion... I have a BP and I know that people don't tend to box a BP as much as SWS or BD, so I guess my BP will have some chance to prove it's worth ^^
Apart from that also economics has it that buffs will stack. Because if they don't a great % of NCNA subscriptions will be gone for ever .. :D
They do not stack as a lot of them are the same buffs. Also only ppl who are stupid will keep there old boxes insted of saveing money and just have 1 enchenter.
well my info comes from someone who was at the korean PTS but I have no idea if that"bug" made it to live servers, if you have firm info from live then please share else I'll have to say let's see at our own PTS shall we..
Clan or not, go out there and see how many people accept PP in group among the numerous GC LF DC groups out there? Nada, none. I even explicitly declare that I can box vr4, doesn't help.
The class is 'ok' but people refuse to wait more than 2min for buffs to come because DC has *everything* you need for xping (plus more) and can do it in 10s. Even with buffs being constantly up after the initial 2min wait at the beginning of xp, people can't wait that long. Even with the new passive PP gets that makes them slightly better than DC (-30% pdef at a reasonable toggle rate), people refuse to let go of their habits of just getting a dc and xping.
So yes, it's the people, I can try as much as I want, the only way is if I can log on for constant parties that *I* set up, but if I'm even 1 min late, they'll join another party or box a buffer.
well my info comes from someone who was at the korean PTS but I have no idea if that"bug" made it to live servers, if you have firm info from live then please share else I'll have to say let's see at our own PTS shall we..
Holy Cow! How in hell there is 123 STR on that toon??? I know this is an Orc but man, that is trully overkill.... Nevermind, I looked at the Symbol and the skills for Awaken toons and this gotta be a Iss Enchanter... ALL Passive have +STR
Just loved the new interface... Got really pretty, with the little pics of your Mains/Subs (assuming that the red symbols and the green ones are for the classes)
Call it bad luck if you want, but I'm really tired of supports coming out of GC/FoG and not playing their char as they should be in party
Want some exemples ?
- SE not doing buffs since "there is a DC"
- SE prefering to heal with Greater Heal rather to recharge the cardinal (oops the wole party is down. Oh the Cardi is oom ! Oh the SE is full mp almost !)
- BD dancing when they want, without any synchro, ******* up the whole s/d pull
- EE overhealing when it's not needed
& again & again
So yes, several times I prefer to dualbox and play 2 chars myself, it's more efficient than those people
ah .... poor laby ...
sure you have back luck
or anyone really knows what the job of EE/SE is
or both !!!
well i wonder how many people knows that SE and EE come with the word "SUPPORT" near the word "healer"
rumor has it that 4th class bufs stack with old ones and if true ppl will still box alot of oop support, wtb PTS for confirm..
Ohh,could this be true????
It would be like Nscoft trying not to loose the thousands of accounts of boxed buffers that would go inactive.And skills end at 83,no need to plvl a box that wont awake more.
Well the same goes for a lot of the ppl. Not buffing, some just do Dances or Songs and dont hit then, DC/OL etc buff and not hit, DD dont do Mainassist.
Think GC made some ppl rly lazy/dumb.
I barely xp in DV with unknown ppl cos i had too often deaths, lol xp/h etc. Hell, i even had a few times SE's their in party not doing the Mass Cure spells when needed ><
My favorite pet peeve with random parties is when the BD and SWS think its a race to put up the most dances/songs. Instead of just putting them up synched so everyone has what is needed.
I started playing prophet when it wasn't just a buffpet, my DPS wasn't as drastically weaker compared to normal DDs as it is now (right now fully self-buffed PP is still ~50% the fighting strength of an unbuffed DD), and I would be fighting mobs, healing, rooting and everything... the number of buffs available wasn't nearly as mana draining it is now as well
Then WC got pretty much all of the useful xp buffs, but still retained all their combat prowlness (soulcry, drains, stuns), then people started to exclude prophets from groups... and then boxing became 2nd nature to most people because it was so easy to do so with a WC. Then people pretty much forgot about PP's strengths (not that they have many, especially considering resists mean nothing much at endgame with armour resists being just as strong)
I have my faults and failures, but it does not compare to the injustice *people* have performed towards prophets as a whole. I can heal, PoF, root, block shield, pull mobs...etc and people will still call us leeches, but turn around and worship a CoV buffer (ok not anymore but when CoV was significantly better than PoF it was the case...)
i even proved that with zerk PP buffs were *equal* to the old CoV (calculated), but no1 listened, and I'm not just talking about my old clan. I preached about the awesomeness of counter crit, and was still excluded from parties even when I tried to play as DD with 150 s duals with transforms, then now I see the same people with CC buffpets.
Yes the class became boring and gimp (at xp)... isn't that the main point of prophets crying out for help? Why do people try to block and insult the prophets who try to be loyal to their class choice?
I can answer that for you: your buffpets, the possibility of NCSoft nerfing buffers as buffpets as a result of changing the class to make it more enjoyable is too much of a risk for you to take to support these petitions. You should go and play dungeon siege or something if you want buffers while solo-playing
the reason prophets get nerfed over and over again is because is the main buffer choice in korea as oposed to chosing dc or domis, thats why the prophet class will keep getting worse and worse in comparison to those two.
About the party not being willing to wait for buffs, if they got to wait for you to buff you are buffing wrong, you should be able to keep buffing ppl during the entire buff round at intervals so no one really ever runs out of buffs and there is no waiting.
It is true people prefer to have a dc or a domi in party, but be assured that besides the faster buffing there is a large majority of the l2 player population who dont even know what counter critical is.
For most good xp areas 150 elements is useless, i wouldnt have you in party hiting mobs, just for buffs.
I box because i cant find good players who dont need to be taught party after party after party, bd swm who know how to play and dont require recharging every s/d round, buffers who dont let prophecy fade while im pulling a room with mobs that can 3 shot me, or i gota ask for s/d constantly when doing places like AL.
the reason prophets get nerfed over and over again is because is the main buffer choice in korea as oposed to chosing dc or domis, thats why the prophet class will keep getting worse and worse in comparison to those two.
Which is why I say it's mainly the people which is the problem, not necessarily the class, but some attributes of the prophet class doesn't help with the way NA people like to do things (i.e. the easy way out)
About the party not being willing to wait for buffs, if they got to wait for you to buff you are buffing wrong, you should be able to keep buffing ppl during the entire buff round at intervals so no one really ever runs out of buffs and there is no waiting.
It's just the initial 2min that they have to wait, after that they have buffs constantly and I even have tell them to keep xping while I'm buffing because for some reason they see me buffing and just stop....
It is true people prefer to have a dc or a domi in party, but be assured that besides the faster buffing there is a large majority of the l2 player population who dont even know what counter critical is.
I tried to educate those people, but the big problem is this, CC does a max of 50% boost in damage for 8s for *one* person. The WC party toggle that boosts 50% atk speed is better most of the time because the trigger rate is almost the same but his is party-based. CC is insane for poling tho... shame all the polers have their own boxed PPs.
For most good xp areas 150 elements is useless, i wouldnt have you in party hiting mobs, just for buffs.
This was about 2yr ago, when I *just* hit 78 (90% of that was from me xping myself.... whether that be boxing the prophet or even using transforms to level...) 150 element was the max back then... so with transform I'd be 85-95% as good as any other DD, but their prejudice for prophets extends beyond the 'your class sucks at pve', it goes to the new level of 'your class sucks, so why should we help you level at all?'
I box because i cant find good players who dont need to be taught party after party after party, bd swm who know how to play and dont require recharging every s/d round, buffers who dont let prophecy fade while im pulling a room with mobs that can 3 shot me, or i gota ask for s/d constantly when doing places like AL.
and i call everyone a leech, not just prophets.
Well because of behaviour like this that even the good support class don't get parties, I see idiots all the time, it's not just support classes that can be idiots... e.g. tanks that *never* hate and let DDs die, DDs that like to not assist and kill their own target resulting in slower killspeed and inefficient killing because of no stigma + any other debuff party might have, doombringers and warriors who think they're the **** and rush impact into a group of mobs forgetting that it's AoE or forgetting it's range.... do support class have the luxury of just boxing a DD? Well yes, but then that defeats the purpose of playing a support class... and it's *because* everyone is boxing their support class that we have support class idiots like you mentioned...
If I had populus on to buff me when I played I would have never had to make my pp, nor box it. But he aint on when im on. And I have a feeling he dont wanna buff me anymore anyway.
The problem with buffers is that the tank-and-spank model sucks.
You pick a class, it fills this one specific function in the party. Every party needs a tank, a healer, a buffer. We already have a buffer, G-T-F-O. DDs are interchangable. There's only one rule: No hybrid classes because if we've learned anything from WOW and its myriad clones, all MMO gamers are staunch traditionalists who expect to have their hands held and are okay with spending countless hours shouting LFP.
So L2 is being dumbed down to 8 classes. Why not make it four? Tank, Healer, Buffer, KILL(er). Combine nuker/warrior/dagger/archer/summoner because, in a party, their function is to kill sh/t. Dime a dozen. Give them each one ranged special and one melee special and no one will complain. Fire all your devs, you don't need 'em.
L2 is going in the wrong direction. I say: More hybrids. A broader role makes you more able to mix-and-match a decent party. Rather than narrowing a class's functionality, expand it. Make Paladins be hybrid tanks/healers. PWs hybrid daggers/archers. OLs hybrid buffers/debuffers. Whatever. All equally capable in either role. I'm a SK, I want to function as both a tank and debuffer--and debuffing should be just as efficient as buffing.
Note that the Necromancer class is being eliminated.
But none of this will happen. NC is too busy collecting the scraps from Blizzard's dinner table to even consider pushing this game towards the "niche" market of: Not ripping off the same old **** players were tired of before MMOs even existed. Nevermind that L2 dominated the pre-WOW MMO world because of its monopoly on the "niche" market of open-PVP. GL to you NC.
Some buffers box their own DD to exp themselves; not because they can't find a party, but some DD main are simply terrible at playing their class... :S
-BD standing around doing nothing, just dance and lol around. Asked him to DD and his answer was "Really?" and bsoed to town.
-I died and lost all buffs, asked the WC in party to rebuff me pls. WC does Flame chant and thats it. When asked for more, she says I can give myself the rest (WC was full MP btw). Really? I can give myself Evasion? Berzerker? Prot. Chant? Elements Chant?. Wound up PRing to town since she said she wasnt buffing me.
-SE's doing Greater Heal instead of Major Heal.
-Spoiler at a DV nuker party insisted on meleeing and dying to mobs. Told her to stop melee, just spoil. She stayed on auto-follow then. When told, again, to spoil she answered: "Why do we have to stay on shadow all the time? This is boring" SoEs to town...
-Tank at a DV party goes after a large Leech group and dies. Told him to not to take those groups. 3 mins after rez, he runs for the large groups again, dies, and says the party sucks. Bails after that...
-We get a party together and, after doing full buffs, random person says "Clan is calling" and takes off with full buffs. Yes, people wait for full buffs and then take off to solo.
-DV party with Tank, SE, Bishop, BD, Spoiler, Necro, WC, Summoner, SwS. BD does the wrong dances. When told what to do, he says this is a nuker party, not a melee party. SoEs to town...
well my info comes from someone who was at the korean PTS but I have no idea if that"bug" made it to live servers, if you have firm info from live then please share else I'll have to say let's see at our own PTS shall we..
Buff do not stack. You are looking at combination of old and new buffs because they are different buffs. Same type of new buff over powers the old one. They do not stack.
For example, the drum looking like buff is the new prophish of fire(Wrong spell? don't know..). You don't see the old one there.
Same with dance. Last 3 buffs are actually new dance, or harmony.
After GOD, both SD and SWS prior to awakening also gets new dances and songs skills superior to old ones. And they both get same harmonies.
Maye be it's because people in Korea try to teach people how to play better if they don't play good or as needed. Here some are not even trying to do it because of tired, and others are not willing to help :/
Clan or not, go out there and see how many people accept PP in group among the numerous GC LF DC groups out there? Nada, none. I even explicitly declare that I can box vr4, doesn't help.
The class is 'ok' but people refuse to wait more than 2min for buffs to come because DC has *everything* you need for xping (plus more) and can do it in 10s. Even with buffs being constantly up after the initial 2min wait at the beginning of xp, people can't wait that long. Even with the new passive PP gets that makes them slightly better than DC (-30% pdef at a reasonable toggle rate), people refuse to let go of their habits of just getting a dc and xping.
So yes, it's the people, I can try as much as I want, the only way is if I can log on for constant parties that *I* set up, but if I'm even 1 min late, they'll join another party or box a buffer.
PP are preferred over DC in Korea. Don't understand why PP are not that popular in NA. :confused:
DC has harder time getting partied with us. Some won't even give party and that is an issue with us.. Actually WAS an issue..:p
We'll gladly wait first 2 min. Once hunt begins, it doesn't matter any way, before buffs runs out.. PP will rebuff all anyway..
Holy Cow! How in hell there is 123 STR on that toon??? I know this is an Orc but man, that is trully overkill.... Nevermind, I looked at the Symbol and the skills for Awaken toons and this gotta be a Iss Enchanter... ALL Passive have +STR
Just loved the new interface... Got really pretty, with the little pics of your Mains/Subs (assuming that the red symbols and the green ones are for the classes)
Red is your main, your subs are green. By clicking those icon, you can change instantly as long as your inventory is below 80%.:D
It would be like Nscoft trying not to loose the thousands of accounts of boxed buffers that would go inactive.And skills end at 83,no need to plvl a box that wont awake more.
I started playing prophet when it wasn't just a buffpet, my DPS wasn't as drastically weaker compared to normal DDs as it is now (right now fully self-buffed PP is still ~50% the fighting strength of an unbuffed DD), and I would be fighting mobs, healing, rooting and everything... the number of buffs available wasn't nearly as mana draining it is now as well
Then WC got pretty much all of the useful xp buffs, but still retained all their combat prowlness (soulcry, drains, stuns), then people started to exclude prophets from groups... and then boxing became 2nd nature to most people because it was so easy to do so with a WC. Then people pretty much forgot about PP's strengths (not that they have many, especially considering resists mean nothing much at endgame with armour resists being just as strong)
I have my faults and failures, but it does not compare to the injustice *people* have performed towards prophets as a whole. I can heal, PoF, root, block shield, pull mobs...etc and people will still call us leeches, but turn around and worship a CoV buffer (ok not anymore but when CoV was significantly better than PoF it was the case...)
i even proved that with zerk PP buffs were *equal* to the old CoV (calculated), but no1 listened, and I'm not just talking about my old clan. I preached about the awesomeness of counter crit, and was still excluded from parties even when I tried to play as DD with 150 s duals with transforms, then now I see the same people with CC buffpets.
Yes the class became boring and gimp (at xp)... isn't that the main point of prophets crying out for help? Why do people try to block and insult the prophets who try to be loyal to their class choice?
I can answer that for you: your buffpets, the possibility of NCSoft nerfing buffers as buffpets as a result of changing the class to make it more enjoyable is too much of a risk for you to take to support these petitions. You should go and play dungeon siege or something if you want buffers while solo-playing
If you ever call PP a 'leech' in Korea, you won't get any parties any more..:D After all, they start the party most of the times and are the party leaders.
We had few people calling PP a leech also, and they became hot issue within community.
I tried to educate those people, but the big problem is this, CC does a max of 50% boost in damage for 8s for *one* person. The WC party toggle that boosts 50% atk speed is better most of the time because the trigger rate is almost the same but his is party-based. CC is insane for poling tho... shame all the polers have their own boxed PPs.
Wrong, CC is good in any parties. Most us don't want the additional 50% atk speed. We prefer CC.
Yes, it's triggered indivisually against whole party of WC's. But if you look at overall triggering rate as whole, doesn't matter.
They just don't get triggered at same time.
Maye be it's because people in Korea try to teach people how to play better if they don't play good or as needed. Here some are not even trying to do it because of tired, and others are not willing to help :/
Edit: Thank you destructor for infos :D
Yes, we try to encourage bad players to be good. We teach them if they don't know what they are doing. And Yes, most bad ones(usually someone whom took over the account.) are willing to learn and listen too.:D Thus we just don't have bad players who don't know what they are suppose to do in the party in any party. There's no such concept as a constant party with us. We just don't have bad player that ruins the party at high level.
We do have players with bad personality and bad attitude ofcourse. Let's not get mixed up with bad player who doesn't know the role in the party with one who has bad attitude.
Gotta help each other to make better community. Just because we are in the cyber world doesn't mean it's just toon you are dealing with. Gotta understand that there's a real person behind the toon you are looking at.
It's real people you are playing with after all.
Most of you wouldn't do nasty things you do in games in real life.. think about that.. It's just different mentality I guess..:o
PP are preferred over DC in Korea. Don't understand why PP are not that popular in NA. :confused:
DC has harder time getting partied with us. Some won't even give party and that is an issue with us.. Actually WAS an issue..:p
We'll gladly wait first 2 min. Once hunt begins, it doesn't matter any way, before buffs runs out.. PP will rebuff all anyway..
Hi destructor, Since you been playing on the NA side for some time.
Why would PP is so popular in korea? what else is an PP doing in/for group in Korea that you see PP not doing in NA here? Do PP in korea have mp problem buffing whole 9 player party? Here even if PP assist in melee to gain back mp, they are usually low on mp after buffing 9 players. I guess in Korea there is usually an EE/SE in group with the PP to help recharge the PP mana?
Can you explain why DC is not like/party much in Korea? I heard that player in Korea care for look/fashion and don't like green ugly smelly orc?
thanks- I just like to know how other eastern players play the same l2 game we play here in NA.
PP are preferred over DC in Korea. Don't understand why PP are not that popular in NA. :confused:
DC has harder time getting partied with us. Some won't even give party and that is an issue with us.. Actually WAS an issue..:p
We'll gladly wait first 2 min. Once hunt begins, it doesn't matter any way, before buffs runs out.. PP will rebuff all anyway..
This is due to a lot of NA being pvp oriented at some point in time whether it be everyday, sieges, tw, forts, etc. With the sheer amount of things (slh, pvp dagger, hero pole, talismans) that can strip buffs, it is impossible for a pp to keep up buffs for an entire party in pvp.
Buff do not stack. You are looking at combination of old and new buffs because they are different buffs. Same type of new buff over powers the old one. They do not stack.
For example, the drum looking like buff is the new prophish of fire(Wrong spell? don't know..). You don't see the old one there.
Same with dance. Last 3 buffs are actually new dance, or harmony.
After GOD, both SD and SWS prior to awakening also gets new dances and songs skills superior to old ones. And they both get same harmonies.
then why does greater shield/might and zerk do stack on the screen shot posted as those are also part of the awakened bufs ?
let me clarify one would think all old bufs that have been integrated into 1 of the 4th class bufs should not be able to be buffed at all when their superior version is active.
in short no songs/dances should exist at all on the screen shot nor most of those bufs as they have been made part of the 4th bufs according to the "absorbed/used w/e" skills listed on the korean wiki ?
for example most prophets here are boxed accounts so if zerk/greater might/shield elemental bufs etc. can be buffed on top of the 4th class ones then trust me a lot of PP's will not awaken but used to empower their owners real main chars even further.
....
Do PP in korea have mp problem buffing whole 9 player party? Here even if PP assist in melee to gain back mp, they are usually low on mp after buffing 9 players. I guess in Korea there is usually an EE/SE in group with the PP to help recharge the PP mana?
...
Really? Even this question goes to destructor, I have to say that you are wrong, very wrong. Im an old school prophet (hierophant), and have never problem with mana. Buffing up a full party its not an issue at all as I will still have half of my mana bar left..and above that Im wearing light armor. No problem to gain the lost mana either and don't need recharge. Good duals, and with my passive chance skill "steel mana" works great. Oh yea, no problem to get a party either as Im a team (constant) leader for my melee party.
Next think question which might pop up is many thinking of the castingspeed when wearing light. Sure its abit lower then wearing a robe, but with 1000+ in casting speed (only selfbuffs + acumen weapon), its all fine. ;)
Although, indeed we have become rare played class. It's a shame that some players have no clue of our class today, and what we can do. If just seen above to be "just a buffer", and saw other of our skills as example mana burn, root, block windwalk/shield etc, then might discovered its really a fun class to play. :)
Stop boxing is simple if NCSoft wants to. Just allow only one Lineage 2 client open and block any other client you might want to open. This is easy to implement even at the patcher, once one clicks "Start" and, if finding L2 process becomes dificult, it could be bound to the game guard process or even be controlled by the gameguard update itself, since it is customized for Lineage 2 clients. Just adding a rule to gameguard would stop boxing once and for all and is easy as it doesn't requires a game patch, only a gameguard update.
This would boost Buffers numbers, as well as it would bring back the buff market that helped they in making money...
Just a suggestion tho...
Wouldnt help - many ppl run 1 client and multiple pc's. Not being able run multiple on 1 pc would just be annoying and ruin my shop setup lol.
hows innersphere nowadays . GG still running it and did the slacker get to 85 aswell , did someone had to lvl him as always back when i was there ?
anyways back to topic , PP are fine to get grps over here aswell its just popu that always complains about no grps cuz hes in the wrong clan >_>
darkrich prvt msg me when u get back , we can chat abit :P
PP are fine getting groups? I see 5 party matching rooms looking for DC, I go in say "I have Counter Crit and can box VR4", I get ignored for 5min, and a DC joins he's in party within 10seconds.
And my pp's name is not populus so you can't say they know its me and dislike me for any reason because of my rants on forums.
Maybe i'm just truly unlucky, because I only know *one* person who is willing to sacrifice alittle *consistently* to help me, he doesn't ask for anything in return but I give back to him in my own way.
PP are fine getting groups? I see 5 party matching rooms looking for DC, I go in say "I have Counter Crit and can box VR4", I get ignored for 5min, and a DC joins he's in party within 10seconds.
And my pp's name is not populus so you can't say they know its me and dislike me for any reason because of my rants on forums.
Maybe i'm just truly unlucky, because I only know *one* person who is willing to sacrifice alittle *consistently* to help me, he doesn't ask for anything in return but I give back to him in my own way.
The problem I find with some leader in party matching is that they don't even know what is Counter Critical, and how awesome it is. If the party prefers the DC over a CC prophet, I personally wouldn't want to be in that party either; as it clearly shows that the party leader knows little about the game mechanic.
I guess that I am lucky to be in a good clan and seems to meet nice people from random parties (friend invite+++ XD). Of course it wasn't all so easy all the time, that's why I have my 4 box :D Anywayz, it will be more balanced in GoD.
Stop boxing is simple if NCSoft wants to. Just allow only one Lineage 2 client open and block any other client you might want to open. This is easy to implement even at the patcher, once one clicks "Start" and, if finding L2 process becomes dificult, it could be bound to the game guard process or even be controlled by the gameguard update itself, since it is customized for Lineage 2 clients. Just adding a rule to gameguard would stop boxing once and for all and is easy as it doesn't requires a game patch, only a gameguard update.
This would boost Buffers numbers, as well as it would bring back the buff market that helped they in making money...
Just a suggestion tho...
Wouldnt work for me... I box my SE on a 2nd PC, and my shop dwarf on a 3rd one.. and they couldn't block same IP otherwise the internet cafe/lan party (does it still go on?) would die.
Even though I have a box SE, and a friend has a box PP, and I am very skilled at hitting F8/F9 or whatever heal key i need. or pressing the buff macros. I would 100% prefer a live buffer/healer. and would also never go to a raid with a boxed healer.
SE prefering to heal with Greater Heal rather to recharge the cardinal (oops the wole party is down. Oh the Cardi is oom ! Oh the SE is full mp almost !)
BD dancing when they want, without any synchro, ******* up the whole s/d pull
- EE overhealing when it's not needed
So yes, several times I prefer to dualbox and play 2 chars myself, it's more efficient than those people
I have buff macros on my SE for Fighter Full/Mage Full, Fighter PP/Mage PP, Fighter DC/Mage DC.
I have Major Group heal for those sticky monents, but would rather Regen (macro again) the real healer.
If the BD/SWS have
high enough + on their songs/dances (we have +5/6/7 Cost)
SWS has song of champion, Song of Renewal
SE/EE has Clarity +'d for Songs/Dances (my SE has this) ,
then a full set of songs/dances has a full recovery in less than the 2 minutes.
This is due to a lot of NA being pvp oriented at some point in time whether it be everyday, sieges, tw, forts, etc. With the sheer amount of things (slh, pvp dagger, hero pole, talismans) that can strip buffs, it is impossible for a pp to keep up buffs for an entire party in pvp.
I think this is the main reason people preffer a DC over a PP. While the usefulness of DC/PP in pve can be debated, the DC advantage on intense PvP can't. Additionally, chant of gate is something used in many PvP situations (only DC has it).
Also, keep in mind that even live buffers are often boxed. So the person who boxes it has a much easier time to do it with a DC than a PP.
Hopefully all these will change in GoD and there will not be any "overlooked" classes...
This is due to a lot of NA being pvp oriented at some point in time whether it be everyday, sieges, tw, forts, etc. With the sheer amount of things (slh, pvp dagger, hero pole, talismans) that can strip buffs, it is impossible for a pp to keep up buffs for an entire party in pvp.
You think we don't do PvP??:confused:
I never say who's better so don't even bring up an issue where NA are better at PvP cause most of you are PvP oriented. Just don't underestimate the Korean PvP clans.:cool:
I've been observing your Oly and Castle seige for quite some times. Had chance to observe some PvP's. Some admirable, some laughable.
I KNOW now that who's better in PvP based on what I've been observing.
But I am not going to make any comment on that for now.
One thing I can tell you is, we have better team work. ;)
Our PP do manage buffs for whole 9 people.(it's an answer to someone who asked.. Tells me how PPs are misunderstood in your community.. PP? mana problem?? ha..)
They even buff other party that are with DC or Domi for additional buffs that they don't have most of times with no mp problems. Most of times our SE and EE do know what they are suppose to do, not just recharge, just stigma, just healing, just resurrect, but combination of all when needed. With combination of noble buff and all that, we rarely have problem with buff. And we are not cheap to use milk if needed.
Having DC buffing each time individual falls in party is annoying with us. Yeah it's convenient when many falls at same time and needs to be buffed quickly, but most of time, Our domi takes care of that for the whole clan anyway.
We prefer our PP, SE, EE take care of buffs for the individual that falls and gets resurrected. Takes only few seconds with us, often faster than DC. Our healers know EXACTLY what to do. PP don't waste time buff that SE and EE has when they are in party and other way around
We just think PP has better buffs than of those DC and Domi. Again, it's just different mentality. We just love Counter Crit so much and those elemental buffs.. :p
Well, it's all in the past now.. After GOD it doesn't matter.
then why does greater shield/might and zerk do stack on the screen shot posted as those are also part of the awakened bufs ?
let me clarify one would think all old bufs that have been integrated into 1 of the 4th class bufs should not be able to be buffed at all when their superior version is active.
in short no songs/dances should exist at all on the screen shot nor most of those bufs as they have been made part of the 4th bufs according to the "absorbed/used w/e" skills listed on the korean wiki ?
for example most prophets here are boxed accounts so if zerk/greater might/shield elemental bufs etc. can be buffed on top of the 4th class ones then trust me a lot of PP's will not awaken but used to empower their owners real main chars even further.
hope this clarifies..
There are more new iss buffs that you don't see on the screen shots that would have replaced the ones you see of those old ones.
Iss Enchanter do not learn all new buffs from beginning. Some are replaced later. Based on the race and class too.
Really? Even this question goes to destructor, I have to say that you are wrong, very wrong. Im an old school prophet (hierophant), and have never problem with mana. Buffing up a full party its not an issue at all as I will still have half of my mana bar left..and above that Im wearing light armor. No problem to gain the lost mana either and don't need recharge. Good duals, and with my passive chance skill "steel mana" works great. Oh yea, no problem to get a party either as Im a team (constant) leader for my melee party.
Next think question which might pop up is many thinking of the castingspeed when wearing light. Sure its abit lower then wearing a robe, but with 1000+ in casting speed (only selfbuffs + acumen weapon), its all fine. ;)
Although, indeed we have become rare played class. It's a shame that some players have no clue of our class today, and what we can do. If just seen above to be "just a buffer", and saw other of our skills as example mana burn, root, block windwalk/shield etc, then might discovered its really a fun class to play. :)
Our PP will never wear anything else but robes. Acument is must, and most have learned the sub skills as well. They will also use ss to make buff time even shorter.
Oh, and they never hit mobs.. and we will still charish them. ;)
After all, they are the ones who's always on top of matching system to get replacement and controling the party so ppl can hunt smoothly with out any interruption. :cool:
Some hunt party goes on for days with constant replacement. Meaning starting members and end members are usually totally different.
I think this is the main reason people preffer a DC over a PP. While the usefulness of DC/PP in pve can be debated, the DC advantage on intense PvP can't. Additionally, chant of gate is something used in many PvP situations (only DC has it).
Also, keep in mind that even live buffers are often boxed. So the person who boxes it has a much easier time to do it with a DC than a PP.
Hopefully all these will change in GoD and there will not be any "overlooked" classes...
Obviously by reading from many replies, MANY don't know the importance of 'Counter Crit' and those additonal buffs that PP has.. Surprising.
Let's say there are two parties with exact same gears and same leveled characters with same classes.
The party that has PP, SE, EE will have more advantage over of the other that has either DC or Domi, even combination of both.
Having DC buffing each time individual falls in party is also annoying with us.
Yeah it's convenient when many falls at same time and needs to be buffed quickly, but most of time, Our domi takes care of that for the whole clan anyway.
We prefer our PP, SE, EE take care of buffs for the individual that falls and gets resurrected. Takes only few seconds with us, often faster than DC. Our healers know EXACTLY what to do. PP don't waste time buff that SE and EE has when they are in party and other way around.
Most of us in PVP clan has 300 elemental weapons with 1800 elemental on armors. The PP's elemental buffs also comes in handy.
Don't think we have better chance or any advantage for getting better gears. By observing what's going on in the market in NA for past couple of months, Now I can say it's same. We just get it couple month faster, that's all.
Actually NCWEST do you guys more favors than of those NCSoft in Korea do to us. That actually ****** me off.
well seeing the market situation here NCWest is doing their best to keep the game going, can't really blame them for that imo..
so I've checked wiki again and I've found what you meant as the screen shots don't have any Harmony bufs which is what takes the songs/dances/greater might & shield etc. so that's clarified..
but having said that how do the Korean PP's feels about losing their resist bufs for a 4th class combo version that only increases stats with 30 with no over enchant for power option ?
ps, I do play with active 85 PP + DC + OL and I know very well what they all can add to a party, due to GoD the PP already changed to Fortune Seeker and the OL is thinking of Summoner.. the rest is waiting for PTS to see what will be most fun for them.
well seeing the market situation here NCWest is doing their best to keep the game going, can't really blame them for that imo..
so I've checked wiki again and I've found what you meant as the screen shots don't have any Harmony bufs which is what takes the songs/dances/greater might & shield etc. so that's clarified..
but having said that how do the Korean PP's feels about losing their resist bufs for a 4th class combo version that only increases stats with 30 with no over enchant for power option ?
ps, I do play with active 85 PP + DC + OL and I know very well what they all can add to a party, due to GoD the PP already changed to Fortune Seeker and the OL is thinking of Summoner.. the rest is waiting for PTS to see what will be most fun for them.
I guess it not just the PP's that your question applies. As a Kamael player, I also had lost lots of unique skills once charished.
One thing I can tell you is, forget about the old L2 after awakening. It's just a new class and is still very interesting and very fun.
Don't get hung up in the past too much to miss out the fun in new.
I was sad loosing my unique skills myself, but enjoying so much from new as well. ;)
well seeing the market situation here NCWest is doing their best to keep the game going, can't really blame them for that imo..
so I've checked wiki again and I've found what you meant as the screen shots don't have any Harmony bufs which is what takes the songs/dances/greater might & shield etc. so that's clarified..
but having said that how do the Korean PP's feels about losing their resist bufs for a 4th class combo version that only increases stats with 30 with no over enchant for power option ?
ps, I do play with active 85 PP + DC + OL and I know very well what they all can add to a party, due to GoD the PP already changed to Fortune Seeker and the OL is thinking of Summoner.. the rest is waiting for PTS to see what will be most fun for them.
By the way, harmony is there on the screen shot. The orange colored buff like icons you see are the harmonies. They show on buff section now. And because the harmony is not a buff it does not wipe out old buffs you are questioning about. However, there are new iss buffs that does that are not showing on the screen shot.
Sorry If it has been asked or answered. I have 3 accounts. I play my main account and 2 buffer accounts. I normally play a DoomCryer and a Spectral Dancer as my out of party buffers. When GOD comes out and i make my DoomCryer an Enchanter will that eliminate having to have a Spectra Dancer? Will the Enchanter give me all necesary buffs so I can help my low lvl friends lvl up? Or help my Low lvl toons on my other accounts lvl up? Thanks I appreciate it all.
You will still need 2 boxes if u want full buffs, healer buffs can no longer be underestimated so u'r gonna want to make a healer out of u'r BD.
Destructor didn't u chose to awaken as a tank ? How you're liking it sofar ?
No, I'm a Tyr Warrior. Love it so far.:D
I have 84 PP and 83 SD toons as alternative as some of you already know.. I do have 3 accounts.
However, I'm too busy playing and having fun with my main, I don't have time for the others.
I'm only level 91 at the moment. There are others in my clan that already reached 95+.
Highest level player of all servers is 98 at the moment. Must have played 24/7..lol
They say from 98 to 99 is horrible.
Pretty easy to lvl up till 90, then gets bit grinding. But not as bad as what it used to be..
I guess it not just the PP's that your question applies. As a Kamael player, I also had lost lots of unique skills once charished.
One thing I can tell you is, forget about the old L2 after awakening. It's just a new class and is still very interesting and very fun.
Don't get hung up in the past too much to miss out the fun in new.
I was sad loosing my unique skills myself, but enjoying so much from new as well. ;)
Well, of course still we didn't play with the GD and you've been play it, bit the "forget about the old L2 after awakening" I think a false idea:
1. The classes got merge, but as I saw still every class could keep 1-2 unique skill in his skill bar and I read when a developer told, that the classes still will change much and maybe will new classes too, so maybe at the end with 5th class we will have again 36 classes. The GD only made a changes, but maybe in any upcoming update will change again.
2. The mechanic of game still the same it is seems well just the XP process is faster.
3. Still the dual boxes will useful too.
So I think no really big difference between High Five and GD.
Destructor, anyway what is mainly interesting me. How successful was the Goddess of Destruction in Korea I read on any MMO site some weeks ago the player base growing drastically.
But now, that work the live server how much love it the players or what is what they don't like or like mostly. Because than we already can calculate what will happen in the upcoming update.
Wouldnt work for me... I box my SE on a 2nd PC, and my shop dwarf on a 3rd one.. and they couldn't block same IP otherwise the internet cafe/lan party (does it still go on?) would die.
Even though I have a box SE, and a friend has a box PP, and I am very skilled at hitting F8/F9 or whatever heal key i need. or pressing the buff macros. I would 100% prefer a live buffer/healer. and would also never go to a raid with a boxed healer.
in Korean Internet cafes have special licenses so that people who log in from internet cafes have special stuff they can only do
The problem I find with some leader in party matching is that they don't even know what is Counter Critical, and how awesome it is. If the party prefers the DC over a CC prophet, I personally wouldn't want to be in that party either; as it clearly shows that the party leader knows little about the game mechanic.
I guess that I am lucky to be in a good clan and seems to meet nice people from random parties (friend invite+++ XD). Of course it wasn't all so easy all the time, that's why I have my 4 box :D Anywayz, it will be more balanced in GoD.
GC is usually one guy tanking, but many hitting. Having counter crit will only benifit on the guy taking dmg, whereas greater fury boosts everyone in party that is hitting.
To me it seems to be better to have DC than PP in GC then. IF the DC is active that is.
Obviously by reading from many replies, MANY don't know the importance of 'Counter Crit' and those additonal buffs that PP has.. Surprising.
Let's say there are two parties with exact same gears and same leveled characters with same classes.
The party that has PP, SE, EE will have more advantage over of the other that has either DC or Domi, even combination of both.
Having DC buffing each time individual falls in party is also annoying with us.
Yeah it's convenient when many falls at same time and needs to be buffed quickly, but most of time, Our domi takes care of that for the whole clan anyway.
We prefer our PP, SE, EE take care of buffs for the individual that falls and gets resurrected. Takes only few seconds with us, often faster than DC. Our healers know EXACTLY what to do. PP don't waste time buff that SE and EE has when they are in party and other way around.
Most of us in PVP clan has 300 elemental weapons with 1800 elemental on armors. The PP's elemental buffs also comes in handy.
Don't think we have better chance or any advantage for getting better gears. By observing what's going on in the market in NA for past couple of months, Now I can say it's same. We just get it couple month faster, that's all.
Actually NCWEST do you guys more favors than of those NCSoft in Korea do to us. That actually ****** me off.
How can a PP be more effective during PvP? I mean we have constant buff canceling (hero weapons, skill, PvP daggers/fists). The time a DC needs to restore these buffs is not even comparable to a PP. Also an enemy tank, BD, Sws can easily disrupt a PP by hating him, while DC buffs need no targeting. In PvP having buffs up as soon as possible is of key importance.
How can a PP be more effective during PvP? I mean we have constant buff canceling (hero weapons, skill, PvP daggers/fists). The time a DC needs to restore these buffs is not even comparable to a PP. Also an enemy tank, BD, Sws can easily disrupt a PP by hating him, while DC buffs need no targeting. In PvP having buffs up as soon as possible is of key importance.
Well when I was actively playing in a PvP clan, I kept buffs up permantly during PvP... even when nuker cancel was wiping out everyone's buffs, I kept them up... I *was* able to spot all the missing buffs within a second and buff them right away.
A SwS that gets close enough to hate the PP at the back will die, and their party will have no songs after 2min. Just to interrupt a prophet for 2seconds a SwS will not risk dying <_<
And just to point out, that cancel doesn't happen to all your party members at the same time, you will have one person losing buffs at one time, another at another time...etc. meaning for DCs they need to wait for enough people to loose buffs to rebuff... they can really only rebuff 3 times and they won't enough MP left, prophets can rebuff more efficiently in this respect, because they can rebuff each individual person 1+ time each... so even if all your party members loose buffs at different times you can rebuff them at least once, while with DC you can wait for 2-3 ppl to to loose buffs then rebuff (if you wait too long they'll just suck and be useless at the pvp encounter)
It really depends on your preference in this matter, some people think rebuffing everyone in one go is better than having less buff downtime. My opinion is that a competent prophet will beat a DC at buffing pvp *anyday*, a DC is just more convenient, that's all.
GC is usually one guy tanking, but many hitting. Having counter crit will only benifit on the guy taking dmg, whereas greater fury boosts everyone in party that is hitting.
To me it seems to be better to have DC than PP in GC then. IF the DC is active that is.
Unless the tank is a tank with hate and keep the mob constantly hated, if not the mob does randomly changes target from time to time. From the previous double exp in GC (got no pc to play for this double exp event >.< tablets ftw for traveling), many DC looks real pretty standing in the party. Another thing PP have over a DC in GC is penetration attack, combine it with stigma the mob dies super fast constantly. Even there's chance to resist, but the trigger rate is high; ranging from 2 to 6 triggers per mob. That time with 6, it just constantly popped till just before the mob died lol. Also, I was using a one hand blunt.
@populus Just remembered the other thing I find is that many thinks that CoV is the best prophecy when those don't really know the stat of the prophecies. They think they need +4 accuracy against heavy armor with low evasion type mobs hahaha XD
Much of the DC popularity has to do with "Laziness" factor in some melee PvE. DC is a toon that can be boxed in so many situations buffing a full party instantly and then press F1 for CoV every 5 min. Offering almost all buffs with a single key press to all party not having to check who has what buff is "cool", 0 downtime, just press macro again.
At relaxed XP areas nothing more is needed. No1 dies and no party members are replaced that fast so MP is never a problem. Rebuffing all party when some1 comes / go is also convinient, all buffs are synced. No need to be active 100% of the time. All buffs will run out in 5/20/40 min.
Just inspect some GC parties. Half of the party is semi-afk or just pressing an F1 macro every 6-7 secs. Only thing needed is a fast MA and all rest can sit back and relax. Everyone with his macro, repeatedly pressing F1 Macro every 6-7 seconds for hours ..
/target MA
/assist
/useskill xxx
And for that a DC is the best buffer :P
Much of NA population does not want to know more or experiment with different things. They just want to hit 85,100% ASAP and easy mode. To do that you need full party and a buffer. The best buffer for easy mode is DC. And because of problems finding a party, lots of ppl chose to level a buffer to box him. By checking number /quality of buffs a DC would be a reasonable choice.
And then, after spending all their time at GC with a bad party and never trying something new, they come and QQ about adena :P
Heck, there are DC's that are so bored / spoiled that refuse even to pickup :) Even though they do nothing, not even hitting hit and only they have to do is F1 at 5 min / F2 at 20 min / F3 at 40 min
Unless the tank is a tank with hate and keep the mob constantly hated, if not the mob does randomly changes target from time to time. From the previous double exp in GC (got no pc to play for this double exp event >.< tablets ftw for traveling), many DC looks real pretty standing in the party. Another thing PP have over a DC in GC is penetration attack, combine it with stigma the mob dies super fast constantly. Even there's chance to resist, but the trigger rate is high; ranging from 2 to 6 triggers per mob. That time with 6, it just constantly popped till just before the mob died lol. Also, I was using a one hand blunt.
@populus Just remembered the other thing I find is that many thinks that CoV is the best prophecy when those don't really know the stat of the prophecies. They think they need +4 accuracy against heavy armor with low evasion type mobs hahaha XD
Well CoV *does* have 20% extra hp, and combined with Bishop's body of avatar, they get more HP.
But without bishop, PP will give more HP cos Imp Cond gives 35%... and for those mana-loving folk, ImpCond + PoF = 62% higher max mp XD
The accuracy is nice for pvp tho :x in pve its not noticably better.
CC is also great in those xp areas where mobs AoE (I can only think of HB for now), meaning most DD will have the trigger most of the time, GC is a bad spot for CC cos only 1 person gets aggro really.
And yea penetration attack is awesome, but I'm not sure if it stacks with hex/furious thingy (zerker skill), cos l2calc doesn't allow it to stack o.o
Also they ninjaed in a 'feature' into penetration attack:
You use SpS when it triggers o.o so it means you get better land rate with higher matk... but when you're hitting mobs you'd be using melee wep <_< just NCSoft being weird and adding things in to make any improvements (however little) to prophets have things we can complain about... (e.g. steal mana was great... except they have a significantly better version to the orcs <_<, making the original reason for asking for better mana regen almost pointless as our problem at the time was orcs taking all the parties...) but I guess people in Korea don't hate prophets, so it doesn't matter to them :x
Much of the DC popularity has to do with "Laziness" factor in some melee PvE. DC is a toon that can be boxed in so many situations buffing a full party instantly and then press F1 for CoV every 5 min. Offering almost all buffs with a single key press to all party not having to check who has what buff is "cool", 0 downtime, just press macro again.
At relaxed XP areas nothing more is needed. No1 dies and no party members are replaced that fast so MP is never a problem. Rebuffing all party when some1 comes / go is also convinient, all buffs are synced. No need to be active 100% of the time. All buffs will run out in 5/20/40 min.
Just inspect some GC parties. Half of the party is semi-afk or just pressing an F1 macro every 6-7 secs. Only thing needed is a fast MA and all rest can sit back and relax. Everyone with his macro, repeatedly pressing F1 Macro every 6-7 seconds for hours ..
/target MA
/assist
/useskill xxx
And for that a DC is the best buffer :P
Much of NA population does not want to know more or experiment with different things. They just want to hit 85,100% ASAP and easy mode. To do that you need full party and a buffer. The best buffer for easy mode is DC. And because of problems finding a party, lots of ppl chose to level a buffer to box him. By checking number /quality of buffs a DC would be a reasonable choice.
And then, after spending all their time at GC with a bad party and never trying something new, they come and QQ about adena :P
Heck, there are DC's that are so bored / spoiled that refuse even to pickup :) Even though they do nothing, not even hitting hit and only they have to do is F1 at 5 min / F2 at 20 min / F3 at 40 min
Yep you said it better than I did ^^
At the end of the day it's still boxing that's the core reason why prophets got shafted over here in NA.
And to reiterate why Korea don't have this problem, if someone in clan doesn't group a buffer over a boxed buffer, the buffer will stand up in the internet cafe, and beat up the guy o.o can't do that in NA cos most ppl play at home o.o
Also i've been in a number of parties with greater fury DCs, that were active and spamming their burning chops. The toggle is usually once every 3-5 mobs at GC, which actually ends up being the same as if you had CC and only 1 dd gets aggro but gets CC trigger every mob, and becos you only have 4 DDs max in a party you can do abit of math and you end up with approximately the same increase in damage output *overtime* with both CC and Greater Fury.
CC is also great in those xp areas where mobs AoE (I can only think of HB for now), meaning most DD will have the trigger most of the time, GC is a bad spot for CC cos only 1 person gets aggro really.
She don't listen when I say, and think that the 8 second trigger allows for multiple ppl to get attacked and trigger continuously. But hey, maybe she listens to you? :D
@mcBuff: As for what most DC's do that you see in GC I could care less. Greater fury is superior to CC in that spot, for the reasons stated above, regardless of what most ppl do with their DC. If the DC is active, it should be skilling to get Greater Fury. You are trying to invalidate a proc buffs worth on account of bad players. That's like me generalizing that all PP's are lazy ppl that just wanna buff you and then sit for 20 mins.
And yea penetration attack is awesome, but I'm not sure if it stacks with hex/furious thingy (zerker skill), cos l2calc doesn't allow it to stack o.o
Also they ninjaed in a 'feature' into penetration attack:
You use SpS when it triggers o.o so it means you get better land rate with higher matk... but when you're hitting mobs you'd be using melee wep <_<
You are a prophet, with mystic stats. You hitting any mob in GC, noone would care what weapon you use, you will not be the main source of damage. So you can happily use your mage weapon. Just dont use soulshots, unless you wanna waste them for nothing.
It's not a clear black and white situations as most want it to be.
It depends on the group setup as much as the individual setup.
Esp the prophecy which is cast. ;)
Greater fury is sure nice, but honestly once the haste subskill triggers esp. on GKs Daggers etc your so high into the atk.spd getting average 200ish (or less) more Attackspeed to the cap is...underwhelming.
Every VR "tanking" GK sure feels a way better contribution from Counter Critical for his overall Damage. And if your group has equal good DDs (not just assist zombies) each has his turn on aggro;)
I would rather say, stacking crit damage and attackspeed makes you rather want CC. More defensive types (subskills) rather prefer GF.
best set up imo is to have both and plz don't under estimate the pdef lowering effect of the PP's penetration passive as it stacks with stigma..
tbh with warrior haste trigger I don't really need greater fury that much but if you don't have that subskill then yeah it's for sure a boost on dps.
<- lol sws with 1,4+k att speed with just warrior haste using a vesper cutter, add in stigma/penetration + CC I tend to tear apart mobs really fast while living on the VR of the DPS.. fun part is explaining BD's not to use medusa when I pull trains as that kills me and/or causes healers to waste alot of mp causing problems later on.. had to kick one slow bd from a DVC party as he refused to listen and started to argue.. in that sense the merger of sws/bd skills is a good thing as you can be more selective in who to party as **** there are many idiots out there..
Well CoV *does* have 20% extra hp, and combined with Bishop's body of avatar, they get more HP.
But without bishop, PP will give more HP cos Imp Cond gives 35%... and for those mana-loving folk, ImpCond + PoF = 62% higher max mp XD
But you don't need the extra HP. HP+ don't make you kill faster, and if the group is struggling without it in GC; then they shouldnt be there in the first place lol.
The accuracy is nice for pvp tho :x in pve its not noticably better.
I usually don't like to have people with 2 way wars in a random pick up party. Coz most of them end up disbanding after... :/
CC is also great in those xp areas where mobs AoE (I can only think of HB for now), meaning most DD will have the trigger most of the time, GC is a bad spot for CC cos only 1 person gets aggro really.
I guess the GC mobs that my random pick up groups kill must be indecisive lol. They hit the 'tank/MA' or who attacks it first, then when everyone caught up and attack the mob, the mob likes to smack another DD 1-2 times and change back to the tank. Remember having mobs smacked 2 different DDs before changing its target back to the MA/tank. Hm.... Isn't that like 2 to 3 CCs being triggered within 8 secs already?? :O
I guess the GC mobs that my random pick up groups kill must be indecisive lol. They hit the 'tank/MA' or who attacks it first, then when everyone caught up and attack the mob, the mob likes to smack another DD 1-2 times and change back to the tank. Remember having mobs smacked 2 different DDs before changing its target back to the MA/tank. Hm.... Isn't that like 2 to 3 CCs being triggered within 8 secs already?? :O
Well for my WR, GC mobs always miss me :< so I end up never getting CC trigger unless i'm main tank... (which is a baaaad baaaad idea considering I'm *still* -10con :P pve mode ftw!)
Well , if ppl are not afk zombies as mentioned , at least 2 ppl can get CC.
In the parties I've been in , if we had CC , i would use Crit Wound ( daggers not using this skill need to reroll >< ) and just make the 1st hit , no skill. Then other DD would do more dmg somehow , taking aggro just when my CC procs , and gets his proc aswell.
So just in 2-3 seconds and good coordination , we get an insane amount of dmg increase!
And it isn't something hard to do.
EDIT: When there're full buffs (GM or too much oop boxes) and a dagger party , there is no fixated tank.
And a dagger that gets all 3 procs(FW , D.mastery and CC) will do some wicked *****whooping :D
I figure that goes for mixed parties too. If a titan gets a string of crits , he may very well pull aggro on him. And again - this counts only when DD's are active...rather than assist-spamming sleepwalkers.
Well , if ppl are not afk zombies as mentioned , at least 2 ppl can get CC.
In the parties I've been in , if we had CC , i would use Crit Wound ( daggers not using this skill need to reroll >< ) and just make the 1st hit , no skill. Then other DD would do more dmg somehow , taking aggro just when my CC procs , and gets his proc aswell.
So just in 2-3 seconds and good coordination , we get an insane amount of dmg increase!
And it isn't something hard to do.
EDIT: When there're full buffs (GM or too much oop boxes) and a dagger party , there is no fixated tank.
And a dagger that gets all 3 procs(FW , D.mastery and CC) will do some wicked *****whooping :D
I figure that goes for mixed parties too. If a titan gets a string of crits , he may very well pull aggro on him. And again - this counts only when DD's are active...rather than assist-spamming sleepwalkers.
Yea I noticed daggers just auto-assisting when going behind a mob with focus power/death gives *soooo* much more dmg :x
Aiya.... Equip a shield or even wear heavy armor ah ma~ haha XD
Well I can actually tank GC mobs fine, provided the healer pays attention o.o cos a string of hits (stupid randomness of evasion) would put me down in HP quite badly :O I can do GC upper with just buffs+vr4+pof+cc and healing myself with my se ^^, but I have to make sure there are no scouts around o.o
-BD standing around doing nothing, just dance and lol around. Asked him to DD and his answer was "Really?" and bsoed to town.
-I died and lost all buffs, asked the WC in party to rebuff me pls. WC does Flame chant and thats it. When asked for more, she says I can give myself the rest (WC was full MP btw). Really? I can give myself Evasion? Berzerker? Prot. Chant? Elements Chant?. Wound up PRing to town since she said she wasnt buffing me.
-SE's doing Greater Heal instead of Major Heal.
-Spoiler at a DV nuker party insisted on meleeing and dying to mobs. Told her to stop melee, just spoil. She stayed on auto-follow then. When told, again, to spoil she answered: "Why do we have to stay on shadow all the time? This is boring" SoEs to town...
-Tank at a DV party goes after a large Leech group and dies. Told him to not to take those groups. 3 mins after rez, he runs for the large groups again, dies, and says the party sucks. Bails after that...
-We get a party together and, after doing full buffs, random person says "Clan is calling" and takes off with full buffs. Yes, people wait for full buffs and then take off to solo.
-DV party with Tank, SE, Bishop, BD, Spoiler, Necro, WC, Summoner, SwS. BD does the wrong dances. When told what to do, he says this is a nuker party, not a melee party. SoEs to town...
LMAO these are classics. been there, sadly. sometimes random parties are good but just as often are completely ruined by idiots who refuse to improve.
Improvement depends on the "bad" player tho, either they will listen to what you tell them to do and get better or they will emo-out and leave or you will have to leave because they are intolerable. SO many times I have to tell sws what to sing, and it is ok if they ask me "why" and I will tell them why. But it's very true there a LOT of ppl who play support mains who are freaking terrible and I am far better off boxing my own support, and playing it, than they are.
I guess the GC mobs that my random pick up groups kill must be indecisive lol. They hit the 'tank/MA' or who attacks it first, then when everyone caught up and attack the mob, the mob likes to smack another DD 1-2 times and change back to the tank. Remember having mobs smacked 2 different DDs before changing its target back to the MA/tank. Hm.... Isn't that like 2 to 3 CCs being triggered within 8 secs already?? :O
Sounds like a party full of 150 weps.
Go into party that has 300 ele duelist and check if that mob jumps at all.
Go into party that has 300 ele duelist and check if that mob jumps at all.
I draw aggro from 300 ele duelist with a 7th anniversary weapon (+4 dyn focus w/o ele) XD crit wound is actually pretty aggro intensive, so if I crit wound and crit a few times right off the bat (with focus death), I get aggro for a couple hits and *might* get CC trigger :x (I usually evade tho :<)
I draw aggro from 300 ele duelist with a 7th anniversary weapon (+4 dyn focus w/o ele) XD crit wound is actually pretty aggro intensive, so if I crit wound and crit a few times right off the bat (with focus death), I get aggro for a couple hits and *might* get CC trigger :x (I usually evade tho :<)
I do find the agro AI of the mobs in GC quite random, sometimes it got nothing to do with dps. I occasionally gets agro (1-2 smacks) on my prophet with -10 str and uses no ss. It tends to like to smack light/robe armor class a few times before changing its target back. I was even in a group that a lvl80 feline queen cat tanked for the group. The mobs would hit the cat then change target, smacks another player 1-2 hits, then back to the cat lol. That group actually went really well XD