So I made a violation report with some ideas on how to stop those scammers.
check the mail and if you agree send NCsoft a mail using this link https://uk.support.ncsoft.com/app/ask and tell them that you agree and support the ideas descibed in the support ticked with Reference# 111207-000893
Maybe if they see many people support this they will patch some of the ideas or their own ideas that would stop the scamming...
Before I am starting to describing the solutions I would like to report character Meraklis (male dwarf) which probably will still be in giran having his scamming private store.... I lost 37,688,000 adena because of his scamming behavior... he had a private store labeled to sell A crystals @ 4500 adena each though he was selling soul ores which is a common grocer item sold at about 250 adena each...
The funny thing is that a guy next to him was selling INDEED A grade Crystals at 4500 each.. I bought the crystals from the legit guy and also the soul ores from the scammer at the same price ...............
My game is ruined I lost a huge amount of money and time and my psychology is very down.. I worked very hard for MUCH time to gather this adena.. and they have a real monetary value as well since I was paying subscription (back in the time were l2 wasn’t free) in order to play and gather adena......all that lost because of this ridiculous scammer who sold an item almost optical identically to an A grade crystal........
You recently implement in NPC store the "Refund" tab in which a player is able to get his adena back if he realized that he bought a wrong quantity of an item or a wrong item.
I think that this rule should be implement in the private store state and trade arrangements as well.
How?
well every private store (sell or buy) should allow the purchaser (or the seller respectively) to reverse the transaction -in the same manners it does happen in the "Refund" tab of every NPC store- within 1 minute after the original transaction happened.
The player after deciding the purchase and clicking the accepting button should be informed by a popping window that he has this ability to reverse the transaction within one minute and click ok to continue.
the character which established the private store (sell or buy) should not be able to cancel the private store state (by standing up) if 1 minute and 1 second has not elapsed since the last sale that happened while in private store state.
Also the private store state should still exist while the list of items for sale or for purchase is empty for at least one 1 minute and 1 second (so that the customer that bought or sold the last item on the list has the needed time to change his mind and return it) ***that’s because if you make a private store and sell all your items it stops to exist and you seem just as a sitting character with no venting properties and characteristics -like labeling- ***
If the character that is on a private store state disconnects due to technical problems on his site -or server site- or in purpose, and this disconnections happens before the elapse of the 1 minute timeframe (of the last sale that happened within this private store) then the this particular transaction gets reversed/canceled by default to protect the customer.
if the customer disconnects for some reason before the pass of 1 minute after his last purchase or sale then he should have the opportunity for an extra 1 minute time frame to get refunded after he logs in again in the game within 1 hour.
All this 1 hour + 1 minute timeframe the owner of the private store sale or buy would not be able to spend the adena obtained by his transactions (buy or trade or drop)
The above should be implemented in the auction store as well as in any /trade command.
Also you could add a new Karma rule in which a player with a predefined amount of karma (decided by you, Ncsoft) should not be able to trade with other players or to drop items while alive - I assume that the old rules of not allowing a chaotic player to use NPC stores and WH still exist-
so for the sake of the example lets assume that this amount of karma that youll decide is 10.000 karma.
So if a player that scams through trade or a private store (sell or buy) like player meraklis did the victim of this scam should be able to report the scam to a GM directly by using a command button (like the one you have for bots) and then 10.000 karma should be applied to that scammer character.
Or if you don’t think applying karma is a good idea then do not allow the character that scammed to have any NPC exchanges and inform all the players that accepted his trade request that if they continue and transact with this particular scammer they will lose fame points (and the same will apply to the players that will try to trade with the 1st player that lost fame points and so on)
This will wipe out all the scamming trials and wont destroy the gameplay and experience of legit players..
Of course its not NCsoft's fault or the scammers fault that a player is not clever or aware enough to avoid the scam but that doesn’t mean that scamming is a bad action and that is should be punished like any other bad action in the game by karma or any other restrictions described above.
If you do a bad action like healing a monster that another player is attacking would you not be punished by turning into purple?
If you use automated programs would you not be punished by ban?
If you kill a fellow player would you not be punished by turning into a chaotic state (karma) ?
Is it your fault that the player is weaker and doesn’t want to engage you? no it isn’t but you still get karma if you kill him (and that rightful!)
So it isn’t your fault that a player is naive or not aware that much and that he changed his mind about the transaction but you should get punished as well!
being a smartas s is not a solution.... nor clever..
you could say the same thing about a PK... like "or you could just xp harder and get lvls so that he cant kill you anymore.." though nomater how smartas s this proposal is the player that make the PK still gets karma.... nore does it mean that scamming is NOT a bad thing..
also in real life a child just could avoid to get in the car of a child molester by refusing his offer of free sweets... that doesnt mean that if a child gets in the car and gets molested that all is ok and that we should not punish the molester.. jeeez get a life!
Also about something being said in an other post above.. they do look exactly as such the only difference is the colour.. but playing l2 on a crappy system has some gamma probles and disorders the colours anyway. + if you OVER xp your brain doesnt work 100% as it used to :P
last but not least the thing is that it was a huge BARGAIN (there were private stores buy that were buying A crystals for 6.500 adena)
and there WAS a legid guy next to the scammer that indeed sold A crys for 4.500 so I just bought them for like 4 million and made 7.5kk!! and being in a state of total hapiness I rushed into the next store that was selling A crys for 4.5k.... though this one was a scamm..
The even more funny thing? I TESTED the legid guy (by buying 1 A crystal and trying to sell it to the other store) before I bought his entire stock just because I thought its too good to be true!!
and because it just DID happen and I make 3 mill+ out of nothing I was overwalmed and didnt check as hard the next store..
Your solution OP wouldnt work cause it would essentially screw every seller just cause you didnt read what you were buying. There is also no rule that you have to specify every item you are selling on the message so if he sold all the crystals and only had soul ore it would be legit, the same way he could have S grade weapon and a C grade one and if he had sold the S grade you wouldnt just buy the C grade.
Another thing is would stop ppl from selling stuff and stall the market, I could grief everyone buy buying their stuff and selling it back a minute later constantly.
In short no this will never be implemented cause it would ruin the free form market outside the auction house that exists now, you got burned from your mistake not anyone else.
In short no this will never be implemented cause it would ruin the free form market outside the auction house that exists now, you got burned from your mistake not anyone else.
If you was so stupid to buy some **** I'll show you a simple example from real life.
You're going to store and buy something, let it be cellphone. You open box at home and find out that your brand new phone hasn't necessary features for you as you though it should, so you're go back to store and make exchange or refund. Now imagine you bought that phone not from the store, but some person and history repeats until you come back to that person - what do you think you will hear for your proposal to exchange phone or refund money? :)
Your solution OP wouldnt work cause it would essentially screw every seller just cause you didnt read what you were buying. There is also no rule that you have to specify every item you are selling on the message so if he sold all the crystals and only had soul ore it would be legit, the same way he could have S grade weapon and a C grade one and if he had sold the S grade you wouldnt just buy the C grade.
Another thing is would stop ppl from selling stuff and stall the market, I could grief everyone buy buying their stuff and selling it back a minute later constantly.
In short no this will never be implemented cause it would ruin the free form market outside the auction house that exists now, you got burned from your mistake not anyone else.
A) it would NOT screw legit sellers because legit sellers have happy buyers.. they wouldnt want to return something they are willingly buying!! (and thats why I mentioned only 1 minute timeframe! and not internal time for refunding) !! if you buy like a dyn weap for 30 mil (legit price) you wouldnt want to return it.. if you bought a som +0 for 100.000.000 (instead of 10M) you would like to return it.
B) The soul ores were greatly overpriced and they have predetermined price as being stadar stock in generally available NPC stores.. they dont have subjective price as being rare (like a quest item or a random drop not available for sale in NPC stores)
Also the label was A crystals for 4500k and the soul ores were 4500k!
last but not least thats the reason I indroduced the REFUND idea maybe that indeed happened -i mean your senario- and this guy had soul ores that for a funny and very strange reason decided to sell them despite that nobody should want them and to price them exactly as the A crystals he had in stock as well for 4500..
and lets say all his A crys indeed got sold and the soul ores remained.. so ok the guy is not technically a scammer...
but a poor thing bought the soul ores from the technically legit seller by thinging they were A crys... ok he has 1 minute to realise that and return them
So the legit guy would not have a problem as well since he is legit and he understands that.
EDIT: and to expand this scenario also if a guy for what so ever reason decides to sell 1 mithrill ore for 1 million... and a purchaser willing for his personal own reasons would like to purchase this mitrhill ore for 1 million adena then he has 1 minute to change his mind.. but since he wants to buy this mithrill ore at that price he wont do anything within this 1 minute... so after 1 minute (which is not much of time.. even dances last more... )both partys can go their seperate ways.. adn everyone would be happy.
being a smartas s is not a solution.... nor clever..
you could say the same thing about a PK... like "or you could just xp harder and get lvls so that he cant kill you anymore.." though nomater how smartas s this proposal is the player that make the PK still gets karma.... nore does it mean that scamming is NOT a bad thing..
also in real life a child just could avoid to get in the car of a child molester by refusing his offer of free sweets... that doesnt mean that if a child gets in the car and gets molested that all is ok and that we should not punish the molester.. jeeez get a life!
Also about something being said in an other post above.. they do look exactly as such the only difference is the colour.. but playing l2 on a crappy system has some gamma probles and disorders the colours anyway. + if you OVER xp your brain doesnt work 100% as it used to :P
last but not least the thing is that it was a huge BARGAIN (there were private stores buy that were buying A crystals for 6.500 adena)
and there WAS a legid guy next to the scammer that indeed sold A crys for 4.500 so I just bought them for like 4 million and made 7.5kk!! and being in a state of total hapiness I rushed into the next store that was selling A crys for 4.5k.... though this one was a scamm..
The even more funny thing? I TESTED the legid guy (by buying 1 A crystal and trying to sell it to the other store) before I bought his entire stock just because I thought its too good to be true!!
and because it just DID happen and I make 3 mill+ out of nothing I was overwalmed and didnt check as hard the next store..
what?It is simple, before clicking buy check what you are buying. Has nothing to do with child molesters.
If you was so stupid to buy some **** I'll show you a simple example from real life.
You're going to store and buy something, let it be cellphone. You open box at home and find out that your brand new phone hasn't necessary features for you as you though it should, so you're go back to store and make exchange or refund. Now imagine you bought that phone not from the store, but some person and history repeats until you come back to that person - what do you think you will hear for your proposal to exchange phone or refund money? :)
No thats not the same thing...
to parrarel to your example is that I go to a store to purchase a noukia-n8009GDX device get a box that labes outside Noukia-n8009GDX but inside I find not a phone but a sugar bar....
(that happens lots of times in ebay for example and buyers GET refunded by paypal..)
AND PEOPLE PLEASE STOP BEING THE DEVILS ATTORNEYS!! we all know that scamming is bad and in reallife illegal as well so please dont troll!
what?It is simple, before clicking buy check what you are buying. Has nothing to do with child molesters.
it has I gave you a parrarel to what you are proposing... anyway if you dont get it please dont troll
Not really a scam btw since you can clearly see what you where clicking on....... not anyone fault but you for not looking at what you was clicking on.
A true scam is the one someone ask to see ur armor and ports...... or starts screaming in trade and shout they traded you there armor and you scam then and the nice person you felt bad that they got scam so you give them money to shut them up and buy new armor but come to find out they scammed you
Regardless, it *is* a scam and a form of grief and shouldnt be allowed.
I feel your pain because the exact same thing happened to me a few years ago. I ended up quitting the game.
Those same players will make comments to you exactly like the posts above this one. They are so simple minded they dont understand this type of attitude is one of the things that ruined this game in the first place. You cant tell them that though, according to them, Lineage 2 went F2P because NCSoft felt like being nice and generous, not because the model was a total failure for many reasons, including this type of pathetic general behaviour from a majority of the player base. Botting for years at a time has made many people spiteful. Now, many of them made it and didnt get busted, or have since had their accounts restored and are ahead of the curve; so they couldnt care less now. For this reason they believe they can treat others in this matter which is quite frankly disgusting imo.
And, naturally, complaining about scams like this will automatically label you as a carebear or a crybaby.
Scum will come here and tell you he didnt break any rules and you should have paid closer attention of course. Get used to this type of behaviour and this exact attitude from many, many players in this community.
Thats not to say i havent met some awesome people in this game. However, compared to just about any other game you play.. If you run across a "deal" in this game buying or selling...always always always check not once, not twice, but three times on any significant purchase or sale.
The OP is trying to justify his mistake of not checking the items being sold before buying. In my opinion, tough luck. This is how people learn, trial and error. I bet you are never going to click the purchase button ever again without double checking the item itself.
No need to change the game because of your mistake, move along now.
Also,
if you went into those street shops that sell almost anything, they advertised an Ipad (boxed) for 50 dollars then you go home and open the box to find nothing inside would you go back and ask for a refund? No.
Regardless, it *is* a scam and a form of grief and shouldnt be allowed.
I feel your pain because the exact same thing happened to me a few years ago. I ended up quitting the game.
Those same players will make comments to you exactly like the posts above this one. They are so simple minded they dont understand this type of attitude is one of the things that ruined this game in the first place. You cant tell them that though, according to them, Lineage 2 went F2P because NCSoft felt like being nice and generous, not because the model was a total financial failure for many reasons, including this type of pathetic general behaviour from a majority of the player base. Botting for years at a time has made many people spiteful. Now, many of them made it and didnt get busted, or have since had their accounts restored and are ahead of the curve; so they couldnt care less now. For this reason they believe they can treat others in this matter which is quite frankly disgusting imo.
And, naturally, complaining about scams like this will automatically lable you as a carebear or a crybaby.
Scum will come here and tell you he didnt break any rules and you should have paid closer attention of course. Get used to this type of behaviour and this exact attitude from many, many players in this community.
Thats not to say i havent met some awesome people in this game. However, compared to just about any other game you play.. If you run across a "deal" in this game buying or selling...always always always check not once, not twice, but three times on any significant purchase or sale.
Again if the shops says selling dirt for 100k but it actually was brown powder and you bought it was more so your fault for not reading the description. its #1 rule of thumb before completing ANY TRANSACTION make sure its the item thats being advertise. Yes its a type of scam but one that you can easily avoid.
You were an idiot, life lesson learned, move on ... instead of whining
I didnt say that you are a troll because you dissagreeing with me.. I said that you are a troll for the specific reasons you dissagree... because a life lesson is learned doesnt mean that the parties involved in this tutoring should not face conciquences for example. also your post dont contribute at all imo. thats why I told you that youre trolling.
Not really a scam btw since you can clearly see what you where clicking on....... not anyone fault but you for not looking at what you was clicking on.
A true scam is the one someone ask to see ur armor and ports...... or starts screaming in trade and shout they traded you there armor and you scam then and the nice person you felt bad that they got scam so you give them money to shut them up and buy new armor but come to find out they scammed you
Yea I saw a guy selling A crys for 4500 adena bought them and sold them and then a guy next to him labeling as well A crys for 4500 adena and inside I saw an icon identically to an A cry... and thought it would be the same as the other store I just had an exchange with (also was in a state of happiness for reasons described above) P.S second face of the answer is in the answer I give to the quoted part bellow
The OP is trying to justify his mistake of not checking the items being sold before buying. In my opinion, tough luck. This is how people learn, trial and error. I bet you are never going to click the purchase button ever again without double checking the item itself.
No need to change the game because of your mistake, move along now.
Also,
if you went into those street shops that sell almost anything, they advertised an Ipad (boxed) for 50 dollars then you go home and open the box to find nothing inside would you go back and ask for a refund? No.
I cant see why you dont grasp the concept...
YES I check everytime what I am going to buy YES I know that A crys have no weight and that soul ores have... YES I eat my veggies and brush my teeth... BUT THATS ENTIRLY NOT THE POINT IN THIS THREAD
I am also a HUMAN BEING! and as such I am not perfecte 60 second every minute 60 minuted an hour 24 hours a day and so on!!
Why cant you understand that?
Obviously there was a mockary here... a legit guy selling indeed A crys for 4.5k a legit guy buying for 6.5k
Me after 12 hours of XPing and broke, and just making a huge transaction by selling the crys I bought from the legit guy
And the scammer next to him that had exactly same label and an almost identicall loking item...
ok i did the mistake and it costed me a fortune! I now have nothing... nor desire to play... and its not my fault that I am human... I should be able atleast to get a refund within a reasonable time!!
And last but not least YOUR (all the above) thesis could be applied to a post talking about people that purchased wrong quantities in a NPC shop.. and all of you would be happy thinking that YOU are right and the guy is stupid..
BUT WHY IN HAVENS NAME YOU THINK THEY IMPLEMENT NOW A REFUND TAB?? because thats not an idea.. thats an ACTIVE WORKING FEATURE now! becaue this kind of behavior is aknoldged thats why!
thats why refunds exist in other mmos as well..
keep being devils attorneys now and support scamming only to make me looking stupid and you looking smart... GG
I didnt say that you are a troll because you dissagreeing with me.. I said that you are a troll for the specific reasons you dissagree... because a life lesson is learned doesnt mean that the parties involved in this tutoring should not face conciquences for example. also your post dont contribute at all imo. thats why I told you that youre trolling.
Yea I saw a guy selling A crys for 4500 adena bought them and sold them and then a guy next to him labeling as well A crys for 4500 adena and inside I saw an icon identically to an A cry... and thought it would be the same as the other store I just had an exchange with (also was in a state of happiness for reasons described above) P.S second face of the answer is in the answer I give to the quoted part bellow
I cant see why you dont grasp the concept...
YES I check everytime what I am going to buy YES I know that A crys have no waght and that soul ores have... YES eat my veggies and brush my teeth...
but I am also a HUMAN BEING! and as such I am not perfecte 60 second every minute 60 minuted an hour 24 hours a day and so on!!
Why cant you understand that?
Obviously there was a mockary here... a legit guy selling indeed A crys for 4.5k a legit guy buying for 6.5k
Me after 12 hours of XPing and broke, and just making a huge transaction by selling the crys I bought from the legit guy
And the scammer next to him that had exactly same label and an almost identicall loking item...
ok i did the mistake and it costed me a fortune! I now have nothing... nor desire to play... and its not my fault that I am human... I should be able atleast to get a refund within a reasonable time!!
And last but not least YOUR (all the above) thesis could be applied to a post talking about people that purchased wrong quantities in a NPC shop.. and all fo you would happy thinking that YOU are right and the guy is stupid..
BUT WHY IN HAVENS NAME YOU THINK THEY IMPLEMENT NOW A REFUND TAB?? because thats not an idea.. thats an ACTIVE WORKING FEATURE now? becaue this kind of behavior is aknoldged thats why!
thats why refunds exist in other mmos as well..
keep being devils attorneys now and support scamming only to make me looking stupid and you looking smart... GG
What MMo is there a refund from a private shop? I havnt seen one at all all iv seen is buy/sell
I didnt say that you are a troll because you dissagreeing with me.. I said that you are a troll for the specific reasons you dissagree... because a life lesson is learned doesnt mean that the parties involved in this tutoring should not face conciquences for example. also your post dont contribute at all imo. thats why I told you that youre trolling.
Yea I saw a guy selling A crys for 4500 adena bought them and sold them and then a guy next to him labeling as well A crys for 4500 adena and inside I saw an icon identically to an A cry... and thought it would be the same as the other store I just had an exchange with (also was in a state of happiness for reasons described above) P.S second face of the answer is in the answer I give to the quoted part bellow
I cant see why you dont grasp the concept...
YES I check everytime what I am going to buy YES I know that A crys have no waght and that soul ores have... YES eat my veggies and brush my teeth...
but I am also a HUMAN BEING! and as such I am not perfecte 60 second every minute 60 minuted an hour 24 hours a day and so on!!
Why cant you understand that?
Obviously there was a mockary here... a legit guy selling indeed A crys for 4.5k a legit guy buying for 6.5k
Me after 12 hours of XPing and broke, and just making a huge transaction by selling the crys I bought from the legit guy
And the scammer next to him that had exactly same label and an almost identicall loking item...
ok i did the mistake and it costed me a fortune! I now have nothing... nor desire to play... and its not my fault that I am human... I should be able atleast to get a refund within a reasonable time!!
And last but not least YOUR (all the above) thesis could be applied to a post talking about people that purchased wrong quantities in a NPC shop.. and all fo you would happy thinking that YOU are right and the guy is stupid..
BUT WHY IN HAVENS NAME YOU THINK THEY IMPLEMENT NOW A REFUND TAB?? because thats not an idea.. thats an ACTIVE WORKING FEATURE now? becaue this kind of behavior is aknoldged thats why!
thats why refunds exist in other mmos as well..
keep being devils attorneys now and support scamming only to make me looking stupid and you looking smart... GG
Once again bro, its happened to me as well...and i feel your pain more than you know.
And just incase it hasnt hit you yet... the player that scammed you also owned the character sitting directly beside him, purposely set there to trip you up exactly the way it did. This is one of the more easy scams to detect, and believe me, they get MUCH trickier.
I got burned hard hard hard once. Makes me cringe to think about it, even years later. Sadly the guy above me is 100% correct, eventhough i also cringe to agree with him. Its one mistake you will definitely not make again, and that is if you even decide to continue to play at all.
never heard of that before Iv heard of playing The Devil's Advocate
You are a real piece of work you know that? Entering every thread you possibly can just to act like a total **** doesnt make you look as cool as you think it does.
It would seem you have nothing better to do. Back in the day you would be a "non factor'. Not sure what the current label would be.
You know as well as i do he was scammed badly. Sadly, it ended up taking everything he had and you cant even give him enough courtesy to acknowledge that? Like i said, you're really cool d00d. We all envy you.
Once again bro, its happened to me as well...and i feel your pain more than you know.
And just incase it hasnt hit you yet... the player that scammed you also owned the character sitting directly beside him, purposely set there to trip you up exactly the way it did. This is one of the more easy scams to detect, and believe me, they get MUCH trickier.
I got burned hard hard hard once. Makes me cringe to think about it, even years later. Sadly the guy above me is 100% correct, eventhough i also cringe to agree with him. Its one mistake you will definitely not make again, and that is if you even decide to continue to play at all.
No I dissagree with that infact thats my point... the point of the thread its a mistake that I WILL sometime in the future do! (if I keep playing) and that every of the above smart people could probably do..
Cause as I said I am human ... I could again be exausted,sleepy or fight with my girlfriend sitting next to me.. or for anyreason out of focus.. and again trade something that SEEMS like the merchantise I want but is not...
And loose again.. and all that because the game mechanics ALLOW malevolant people to deploy their malicious tactics..
I think such kind of things are bigger thread to the game community than boting which is severly punisshed..
Another thing is now everytime you buy something that is severely overprice it comes up with a popup message saying "Do you really want to buy <itemhere>, it is being sold way more expensive that the shop", so presumably after he clicked the soul ore without reading he didnt even bother reading the warning.
So what should we do when ppl cant be bothered to read not once but twice, no I dont think we should hand held ppl if they cant follow simple basic rules, whether its a scam or not it doesnt matter, there are simple steps that you should do IRL and in game when you buy something, with the added bonus there is even a warning message that allow you to cancel your purchase and you simply ignored it.
This is OK for me, if I ever get caught in something like this cause I was hasty and didnt read things probably then its my fault I was dumb and I will take it as a lesson, and so should you, this aint going to change and that is how the free form market of L2 works. Hell I remember someone buying a map from a shop in prelude for 500k back when this was a lot of money, its all part of the game.
Another thing is now everytime you buy something that is severely overprice it comes up with a popup message saying "Do you really want to buy <itemhere>, it is being sold way more expensive that the shop", so presumably after he clicked the soul ore without reading he didnt even bother reading the warning.
So what should we do when ppl cant be bothered to read not once but twice, no I dont think we should hand held ppl if they cant follow simple basic rules, whether its a scam or not it doesnt matter, there are simple steps that you should do IRL and in game when you buy something, with the added bonus there is even a warning message that allow you to cancel your purchase and you simply ignored it.
This is OK for me, if I ever get caught in something like this cause I was hasty and didnt read things probably then its my fault I was dumb and I will take it as a lesson, and so should you, this aint going to change and that is how the free form market of L2 works. Hell I remember someone buying a map from a shop in prelude for 500k back when this was a lot of money, its all part of the game.
In a way i agree with you, but just being completely rude to him like the other player is completely uncalled for. He even said it was all he had.... good god people... have a freaking heart. Are you made of solid stone??
Maybe i care because i did something similar with a larger amount of adena and oh boy was i upset. I quit for years over a simple mistake made in 2 seconds... Let a few hundred or thousand newbies get scammed in the next month or two.. **we both know its going to happen** Then in 6 months you guys can go back to the same old circle jerk of cheaters that have plagued the servers for years with no new blood and boring gameplay.
Another thing is now everytime you buy something that is severely overprice it comes up with a popup message saying "Do you really want to buy <itemhere>, it is being sold way more expensive that the shop", so presumably after he clicked the soul ore without reading he didnt even bother reading the warning.
So what should we do when ppl cant be bothered to read not once but twice, no I dont think we should hand held ppl if they cant follow simple basic rules, whether its a scam or not it doesnt matter, there are simple steps that you should do IRL and in game when you buy something, with the added bonus there is even a warning message that allow you to cancel your purchase and you simply ignored it.
This is OK for me, if I ever get caught in something like this cause I was hasty and didnt read things probably then its my fault I was dumb and I will take it as a lesson, and so should you, this aint going to change and that is how the free form market of L2 works. Hell I remember someone buying a map from a shop in prelude for 500k back when this was a lot of money, its all part of the game.
That same thing happened with a A crystals which I bought for 4.5k and weas happy about it.
YES I check everytime what I am going to buy YES I know that A crys have no weight and that soul ores have... YES I eat my veggies and brush my teeth... BUT THATS ENTIRLY NOT THE POINT IN THIS THREAD
I am also a HUMAN BEING! and as such I am not perfecte 60 second every minute 60 minuted an hour 24 hours a day and so on!!
Why cant you understand that?
Obviously there was a mockary here... a legit guy selling indeed A crys for 4.5k a legit guy buying for 6.5k
Me after 12 hours of XPing and broke, and just making a huge transaction by selling the crys I bought from the legit guy
And the scammer next to him that had exactly same label and an almost identicall loking item...
ok i did the mistake and it costed me a fortune! I now have nothing... nor desire to play... and its not my fault that I am human... I should be able atleast to get a refund within a reasonable time!!
And last but not least YOUR (all the above) thesis could be applied to a post talking about people that purchased wrong quantities in a NPC shop.. and all of you would be happy thinking that YOU are right and the guy is stupid..
BUT WHY IN HAVENS NAME YOU THINK THEY IMPLEMENT NOW A REFUND TAB?? because thats not an idea.. thats an ACTIVE WORKING FEATURE now! becaue this kind of behavior is aknoldged thats why!
thats why refunds exist in other mmos as well..
keep being devils attorneys now and support scamming only to make me looking stupid and you looking smart... GG
Excuse me? I understand just fine. Like I said on my last post, you are trying to justify the mistake YOU made (Yes, you even said it yourself that it was your mistake) and try to get a player banned for one OF THE OLDEST trick in the book. Hell, I remember this same method being use on Diablo 2. I fully understand what happened to you, it was a misfortune indeed. But had you actually LOOKED at the item you would have realized it was a scam, which YOU didn't. I am not trying to support the devil here at all, I am simply trying to reason with someone that got juked and now wants the game to change because of his misfortune.
Yea I think thats the 1 million usd question and answers the topic and solves the problem and prooves that scamming is ok to be done.
If reponses like this one are not "devils attorneys" attitude then I dont know what is...
No, the reason is very simple actually and it has NOTHING to do with the devil, and I would like to ask of you to please stop bringing the religion into a video game forum.
Why are there no games with with a 'refund' policy for player to player transactions? BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT WORK, very simple. Every game I had played in my life NEVER HAD such a function, and there never WILL BE.
HOWEVER, because I do feel sorry for you, and I would not like this to happen to the new players that are coming to the game I would like to suggest a 'CONFIRMATION' window, like the one from Runescape, it solved their scamming problems, I am sure it would work here.
Example:
Player A goes to Player shop B
>
Player A wants to buy Item C
>
Player A moves item into the purchase window
>
Player A clicks purchase
>
Window pops showing items, and names of said items asking player if they are sure of the transaction.
>
Player A reviews the list and accepts.
That same thing happened with a A crystals which I bought for 4.5k and weas happy about it.
It doesnt matter you didnt read it cause it wasnt the same thing it said "Soul Ore" not "A Grade Crystal" so you assumed something that wasnt true, it doesnt make it ok to not read it.
Papajo what is your server? I might be able to make this slightly less painful for you.
PM me if you like.
thanks a lot but no, I am kinda arrogant guy and if I keep on the game I will try cope with the losses..
It just kills me knowing that this scammer will gear his main character with my hard worked over the years adena and that he will do the same thing to OTHER PLAEYRS as well (because he is still in giran selling new stock of soul ores for 4.5k)
Or even worse that he make real money (euro/usd) by selling my adena to ebayers!!!!
and that this guy wont even get touched (like atleast some game restrictions or mutes or karma) by nc soft..
it just drives me crazy....
(I play on Chronos btw)
EDIT: what you can do though (and anybody else that feels the same way) is to spend like about 2 to 5 minutes of your time and send an email to ncsoft like I described in the starting post of this thread. that would make me happy and probably improve the game....
It doesnt matter you didnt read it cause it wasnt the same thing it said "Soul Ore" not "A Grade Crystal" so you assumed something that wasnt true, it doesnt make it ok to not read it.
If you dont ebay... and make your adena by regulating the ss per hit and try to kill mobs that drop adena slightly more than the ss you used to kill it and sudenly you make 3 million out of thin air (by purchasing A crys @ 4.5k and selling them to a shop at 6.5k)
you wouldnt read the "soul ore" label nor see the weight in your inventory you would just see the crystal icon double click and hit ok.... thats what you dont understand...
If you dont ebay... and make your adena by regulating the ss per hit and try to kill mobs that drop adena slightly more than the ss you used to kill it and sudenly you make 3 million out of thin air (by purchasing A crys @ 4.5k and selling them to a shop at 6.5k)
you wouldnt read the "soul ore" label nor see the weight in your inventory you would just see the crystal icon double click and hit ok.... thats what you dont understand...
That is just not true my second account is a dwarf and the main money maker, that is what she does all day when I am not leveling or playing my main, make money, I scan the auction house, shops, make soulshots that is how she is rich at the moment, just yesterday I bought 25 Milk for 25k each and sold it for 1mil each.
Many times I have found shops where ppl have forgot a to put a 0 and bought things for 1mil instead of 10mil, and specially in good deals I always double check to make sure I am not being scammed, you were hasty and got blinded by a good deal.
If it's any consolation, I have done this myself..
after 5 years of playing, I was in a rush to buy something before mammon went away and bought a LOT of red gems that were listed as A gems.
Instead of petitioning to get the game changed, I cursed myself, and belittled myself in clan - much to the amusement of my clannies (I should have known better).
To the suggestion of a refund button, hmm, I don't think so.
Although I have also sold something for 186,000 instead of 186,000,000
and someone got a bargain. (don't setup store in a hurry before heading to work),
If your refund for buyers was implemented, then should we have a reclaim for sellers?
No.
Take the mistake as an experience and pay more attention in future.
Excuse me? I understand just fine. Like I said on my last post, you are trying to justify the mistake YOU made (Yes, you even said it yourself that it was your mistake) and try to get a player banned for one OF THE OLDEST trick in the book. Hell, I remember this same method being use on Diablo 2. I fully understand what happened to you, it was a misfortune indeed. But had you actually LOOKED at the item you would have realized it was a scam, which YOU didn't. I am not trying to support the devil here at all, I am simply trying to reason with someone that got juked and now wants the game to change because of his misfortune. YES my mistake was that I fall into a trap..
Does this mean that setting up traps is a good thing? or should get unpunisshed? (also you dont consider the cricuemstanced under which I fall into the trap... people have feelings a limits.. they dont react the same way every single timeframe of their lifes! what heppened actually is this:
Player A while exausted after 12 hours xping goes to Player shop B
>
Player A wants to buy Item C
>
Player A gets Item C
>
Player A sells item C and makes like 10% of his entire fortune in profit within a few secs play A gets psyched!
>
Player A then goes to Player shop S
>
Player A sees lebel "Item C for sale"
>
Player A sees an item looking like Items C and rushes to get it in order to make like a real fortune now
>
but what happened? player A got Item **** instead and lost his money..
and all this {{
Player A moves item into the purchase window
>
Player A clicks purchase
>
Window pops showing items, and names of said items asking player if they are sure of the transaction.}}
Happened exactly when I bought the real A crystals so why to notice that so much anyway even if I were in focus state.. which I wasnt
No, the reason is very simple actually and it has NOTHING to do with the devil, and I would like to ask of you to please stop bringing the religion into a video game forum.
Why are there no games with with a 'refund' policy for player to player transactions? BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT WORK, very simple. Every game I had played in my life NEVER HAD such a function, and there never WILL BE.
HOWEVER, because I do feel sorry for you, and I would not like this to happen to the new players that are coming to the game I would like to suggest a 'CONFIRMATION' window, like the one from Runescape, it solved their scamming problems, I am sure it would work here.
Example:
Well there is not exactly a refund tab as in lineage NPC store.. but games enforces several policies to stop pleyers to deceive other players.... if not with system mechanics then with directly consoltation (by a GMlike guy)
No, the reason is very simple actually and it has NOTHING to do with the devil, and I would like to ask of you to please stop bringing the religion into a video game forum.
As stated, he meant "Devil's Advocate".
It has nothing to do with religion, it's an argument term.
That is just not true my second account is a dwarf and the main money maker, that is what she does all day when I am not leveling or playing my main, make money, I scan the auction house, shops, make soulshots that is how she is rich at the moment, just yesterday I bought 25 Milk for 25k each and sold it for 1mil each.
Many times I have found shops where ppl have forgot a to put a 0 and bought things for 1mil instead of 10mil, and specially in good deals I always double check to make sure I am not being scammed, you were hasty and got blinded by a good deal.
I didnt accuse you for being illegit... and how you make your money does not apply in any sense to the topic... you is you and me is me....
I dont had a second account because I didnt had money for a second subscription nor the time to level a second toon... thats me.. try to get in my boots when you want to evaluate a situation that happened to me not to see it in your eyes.. for you as well 37M could be like small amount of money.. for me its a fortune...
papajo_r, i get your point, i've seen many scammer, most are under lvl 70
Check Gludio for example, half shops there say for example "SSD 10adena" and when you get to buy it, each are for like 20, i even saw one at 100 each SSD.
Indeed is quite "unfriendly" from those scammer shops, but still, you need to check what your buying.
I drive around with my car, I am tired, I am sleepy, etc...
I drive over a pedestrian.
I go to court, I plea not guilty because you see I did nothing wrong. I didn't sleep at all the night before, so I was tired and sleepy. If anything, it is HIS fault for being on the crossroad.
Like I said, you are trying to justify your stupidity (I am done being Mr.Nice now), so now you want the game to change to please you. Please, do yourself a favor and just stop this. Thank you.
If it's any consolation, I have done this myself..
after 5 years of playing, I was in a rush to buy something before mammon went away and bought a LOT of red gems that were listed as A gems.
Instead of petitioning to get the game changed, I cursed myself, and belittled myself in clan - much to the amusement of my clannies (I should have known better).
To the suggestion of a refund button, hmm, I don't think so.
I didnt propose a refund button but a "report scammer " button just like the one now for reporting bots... so that the scammer (after GM's evaluation) would get some nerfs or a punishment or what so ever NCsoft decides as appropriet.
Although I have also sold something for 186,000 instead of 186,000,000
and someone got a bargain. (don't setup store in a hurry before heading to work),
If your refund for buyers was implemented, then should we have a reclaim for sellers?
No.
Because it has the same results (great loss out of a unlucky moment) doesnt mean thats its the same thing.. in your situation you did a mistake (didnt pay attention to the adena colours and didnt read the count stat didnt pay attention to the popo up box)
but all this is a mistake you made and brought on yourself..
my situation (And the situation of many other victims) is that a malevolant guy willingly setts up a trap waiting for people that are not in a 100% focus state to get traped... its different! malevolant people must be punished...
there is a difference in walking on a road and missstep and fall down compared to walking on a road were someone puts his foot infront of you so that you fall down.
Take the mistake as an experience and pay more attention in future.
-Dw
As I said in a post above despite that I can not take the mistake and continue since I am fanancially destroyed... its not about that.. its about that this mistake can happened again.. ok not now not within 3 months for example but again proper circuemstances will arise and I will fall in for an other scammer trap..
so will other people...
and the scammers will keep on rising and shine while inocent players get destroyed....
Like I said, you are trying to justify your stupidity (I am done being Mr.Nice now), so now you want the game to change to please you. Please, do yourself a favor and just stop this. Thank you.
If my entire post was just the part you quoted.. then I would agree with you.. read all the thing or if you are bored to do that dont read it but dont make conclusions as well..
It's an item priced ridiculously high , you knew ( or were able to know ) the price BEFORE you put your money down .Only takes 2 seconds to double check.
Because of your own mistake , or greed ( being hasty because you thought it was a good deal ) , you did not double check , and this screwed you over .
Personally I think it's awesome that scams are allowed , it offers a whole new level of gameplay to the "criminals" around , some very good lolz , and it makes you think think twice about who you befriend .
Good luck recovering from this mistake , and hunting down the bastard who took your money.
you thought you were exploiting somebody else's stupidity, they didn't check what A Crystals sold for and were paying too much for it. In the end somebody ended exploiting your greed. You are not an "innocent victim" you are just paying the price of your own stupidity. Nothing else.
So I made a violation report with some ideas on how to stop those scammers.
check the mail and if you agree send NCsoft a mail using this link https://uk.support.ncsoft.com/app/ask and tell them that you agree and support the ideas descibed in the support ticked with Reference# 111207-000893
Maybe if they see many people support this they will patch some of the ideas or their own ideas that would stop the scamming...
You fully deserved this scam.
Everyone lets start selling ore instead of A grade crystals and bankrupt these losers !
Remember, not everyone has seen this before. It's like an old joke you never heard; it's funny to you, but not to everyone else. I do sympathize in a way with OP.
On the other hand, welcome to L2, now get back out there and farm!!
The even more funny thing? I TESTED the legid guy (by buying 1 A crystal and trying to sell it to the other store) before I bought his entire stock just because I thought its too good to be true!!
and because it just DID happen and I make 3 mill+ out of nothing I was overwalmed and didnt check as hard the next store..
Maybe you should have checked it and not "thought it"
Sorry it is totally your fault.
Has the text said "A Cry" or "Soul Ore" ? So sorry for you.
You made a mistake, you didn't read the describtion cos of your greediness, you should go on and accept that lesson.
(What's next, the 4.500 Adena A Cry seller coming and QQ that he wanted to type 6.500 and wants now the loss??)
They are still fairly similar; I fell for this because I didn't know the actual market price of the crystal so I bought from a dwarf a bundle of ten.
Then I go craft SS and I find I am missing crystals; so I go check his store and other store and I see the items are both white but one is whiter than the other; then I see the OTHER shop buying the crystals and then I knew.
It felt like old times for me, so I smiled and walked away.
Maybe you should have checked it and not "thought it"
Sorry it is totally your fault.
Has the text said "A Cry" or "Soul Ore" ? So sorry for you.
You made a mistake, you didn't read the describtion cos of your greediness, you should go on and accept that lesson.
(What's next, the 4.500 Adena A Cry seller coming and QQ that he wanted to type 6.500 and wants now the loss??)
There was never a "legit" seller of A crystals for 4.5k; it's the same guy buying himself the stuff.
This is just a more complex version of the old "sell bow of forest for a bow of peril price" abuse of the in-game shop graphic being the same.
I would highly doubt that any gaming company would allow one of their players to be scammed so openly like this. Although this is NCsoft. Nothing against the company but they are known for their, "Its your loss" attitude.
I hope that they do help you out by refunding your items/adena. As well as banning this other individual.
I would highly doubt that any gaming company would allow one of their players to be scammed so openly like this. Although this is NCsoft. Nothing against the company but they are known for their, "Its your loss" attitude.
I hope that they do help you out by refunding your items/adena. As well as banning this other individual.
Pfffft. Seriously, banning the scammer? No, what is more effective is making his name known in the forums and in-game; I did set up shop with "<--- Scammer" in the tile next to him.
This is what the recommendation system is for, recommend good salesmen and women in Aden; ask people around for reputable craftsmen and the like.
You must be new; this is the day one scam for this game, it's really easy to spot, it's down to the buyer to realize it. You should had been around when both soul ore and A grade crystal had the exact same graphics; along with SEVERAL other items with very disparaged prices.
Stem looked the same as one of the components of a C grade bow and a B grade one I think? And one of the no grade bows looked the same in the miniature as one of the top bows in the game.
The trigger for the scam is GREED, player greed. You see one top grade weapon selling for 5-6 million with market price of around 20? A steal! yes, for you!
Could someone properly explain what happened so I don't risk it? Though I normally read everything carefully, better safe then sorry. Two of the same people set up a shop next to each other claiming they sold the same thing, but only one really was?
Someone sets up a sell shop with the title A Crystals - 4500, in reality they are not selling A Crystals they are selling soul ore from grocery. Nearby the same person sets up another store, this time buying A Crystals for 6500. You check both stores, figure you 're in for some quick cash, in a rush to make said cash before anybody else notices the opportunity you don't pay attention to the fact you are buying soul ore so ... you buy the Soul Ore for 4500 and you 're farked.
Could someone properly explain what happened so I don't risk it? Though I normally read everything carefully, better safe then sorry. Two of the same people set up a shop next to each other claiming they sold the same thing, but only one really was?
Some items in the game have very similar shop graphics. The most similar right now is A grade crystals, wich is basically a shinier graphic from that of soul ore, a component used to craft soulshots.
The actual graphic for ALL crystals is the same, but they have different colors; D grade is blue, C grade is green, B grade is red; but A grade crystals are WHITE, just sparkling white, instead of dull white for the soul ore.
so the scam goes like this:
You see two shops set near each other, usually on opposite sides of a street.
One of the shops is buying A crystals for WAY over the market price, while the other is selling them for WAAAAY under the market price.
Say, standard price is 5 thousand; one guy buys for 6k, th eother is selling them for 4k.
You go EASY MONEY, and buy a couple to verify it's true, right?
And they check out.
The original Scam was like this - the buyer didn't actually have ANY money, so you bought a ton of material with zero ways to profit, since there was no way a noon dwarf could use crafting stuff before crafting shops were available.
But this scam makes you buy in bulk a couple thousand crystals and sell them for a nice profit; but then you want MORE.
And then you notice another shop selling them for a bit more, still below market standard, or even cheaper; only this time it's not A crystals but Soul Ore; but you won't notice because you are thinking ILL BUY ALL AND SELL THEM ALL AND ILL MAKE TWELVE MILLION OFF THEM and you go and buy an item you can get at the grocery shop for like 300 gold for 4 thousand, effectively bankrupting you if you are low level.
And all three shops are being run by the same guy, so he loses nothing, he gets to keep his crystals, made millions off you and he gets all his original money too.