i have been researching skills and dmg and stats today and noticed one major factor that in our dagger mastery skill duel or single it says +2 STR..well if i equip a dagger it doesnt increase neither decrease when i unequip it..
is that a bug or does the +2 STR actually transmute to P.atk.. instead of +2 Str stat increase.. the same thing is with light armor mastery aswell..so either the masterys are bugged and dont increase any stats.
can i get some info about that??
cuz from playing dagger since many years i noticed that out of all awakend characters dagger is the most weakest...
has to rely way to much on lethals and half kills..also power bluffs chance to turn the enemys back towards u seems ***ed...any other awakening class has skill rate of 100% and daggers basicly none..
trying to figure out why dagger class is getting rolled by any other class and basicly only wins when we either lethal or half kill an enemy with is luck based and in a open pvp not fair for characters that have 100% skill chance..
Well it seems that all the STR stat bonuses are applied regardless of weapon/armor. my Dwarf base is 87 + 14(from occupation skills) = 101. Which is what I'm at naked.
Now im curious about the other parts of the dagger mastery things. Does using dual dagger get the bonuses from superior dagger mastery aswell as from superior dual dagger mastery?
well ur stats dont change no matter what kind of dagger u equip...i can equip a bow/pole/sword/mace and my str would stay the same. so no matter the issue this should be fixed and show exactly +2 str in ur stats screen because its a weapon based passive skill..
im not sure how u can collect that info. but if its true then that would mean dual daggers are better in pvp as of single dagger just main reason its slower.. single dagger was best in pvp CUZ of the 25% atk speek and 5% vital spot also dont forget the skill reset depending on ur STR..witch means that dagger is already gimped because our STR doesnt increase equipping a dagger so im loosing my chance on getting a important skill reset during a pvp..
can any GM join this conversation and give us some base info about this..
+crit rate for pvp is useless since u mostly spam skills.
+Crit Dmg from single Dagger is way better for pvp since you mostly dont use normal attacks.
Also 1h dagger has buffcancel as pvp aug which is good also.
And with 1h dagger u have more evasion.
That is not the case in R grade. Dual dagger and Single dagger both SA Focus.
Also dual dagger gets bonus patk and critical dmg when enchanted to +4. Single dagger only gains critical dmg. Also evasion stays the same regardless of weapon.
Not sure about the pvp augs tho not looked into that yet.
Your dagger is getting rolled because the game has changed in Awakening. Now being a dagger class requires proper preparation to inflict maximum damage. You can't just run up, stab stab stab, and expect to go very far. That's not how it is anymore. It's no longer that easy. Whoever your friend is, you need to make sure they are also stabbing the person in the back directly. Not the front. Not the side. The back.
I have a friend who plays dagger who can kill just about anyone as long as they aren't wearing heavy armor, and even then he's working on his own ways to get around to killing them.
EDIT: Nevermind, I thought you were saying someone you knew was having trouble, not you yourself. So I guess the "friend" part can be discarded.
Regardless, I read a line just now that bothers me...
..also power bluffs chance to turn the enemys back towards u seems ***ed...any other awakening class has skill rate of 100% and daggers basicly none..
First of all, if that bluff was a high chance, your class would be too easy to play. Secondly, you're implying one of two things;
1. Other classes have a 100% landrate on their debuffs. The answer to this is that they don't. Plain and simple. Thank goodness they don't.
2. Your stabs are missing. STOP STABBING THEM IN THE FACE.
crysillion we all know that lol..playing a dagger means being behind ur enemy. most of the time via 1vs1 u dont get the chance to get behind ur enemy unless u stun run behind and stab 1 or 2...witch isnt bad..and yet u get another chance with shadow chase with has a way to long cool down compared to mages blink..witch is way redicilious..
and who said something about 100% success on debuffs?? noone...a warrior example has a 100% chance to throw u to ground with a instant stun.. while my bluff doesnt turn the enemys back towards me as it supposed to..
anyway the conversation was basicly about the masterys that equipping a dagger doesnt increase STR as it supposed to..same as leather mastery..question about that is where does that STR go...do any of the masterys actually work?? does my single dagger mastery add 25% atk speed lol..
I am honestly amazed that you didn't notice your STR is 14 higher than your base stats because the STR portions of the passives aren't gear dependant, as soon as you learn the skill you have the STR.
i cant believe that someone would write such a dumb response to that...a solid rogue would notice that the PASSIVE SKILL SAYS +2 STR and p.atk +344 WHEN equipped with a dual dagger..rewrite the skills if it doesnt work..if i take off my dagger i HAVE to loose 2 STR in order to proof my passive skill is right from what the skill description says..and whats the point of having dagger mastery if ur basicly getting mastery on any weapon BECAUSE u dont loose 2 STR when using a different weapon...
i cant believe that someone would write such a dumb response to that...a solid rogue would notice that the PASSIVE SKILL SAYS +2 STR and p.atk +344 WHEN equipped with a dual dagger..rewrite the skills if it doesnt work..if i take off my dagger i HAVE to loose 2 STR in order to proof my passive skill is right from what the skill description says..and whats the point of having dagger mastery if ur basicly getting mastery on any weapon BECAUSE u dont loose 2 STR when using a different weapon...
You're surprised that skill descriptions are inaccurate?
no im not new here...actually im here since a long *** time... but u dont get the point these are new skills lol...and not even that they can do right...calls for a fix imo..
Your dagger is getting rolled because the game has changed in Awakening. Now being a dagger class requires proper preparation to inflict maximum damage. You can't just run up, stab stab stab, and expect to go very far. That's not how it is anymore. It's no longer that easy. Whoever your friend is, you need to make sure they are also stabbing the person in the back directly. Not the front. Not the side. The back.
I have a friend who plays dagger who can kill just about anyone as long as they aren't wearing heavy armor, and even then he's working on his own ways to get around to killing them.
EDIT: Nevermind, I thought you were saying someone you knew was having trouble, not you yourself. So I guess the "friend" part can be discarded.
Regardless, I read a line just now that bothers me...
First of all, if that bluff was a high chance, your class would be too easy to play. Secondly, you're implying one of two things;
1. Other classes have a 100% landrate on their debuffs. The answer to this is that they don't. Plain and simple. Thank goodness they don't.
2. Your stabs are missing. STOP STABBING THEM IN THE FACE.
Actually for one thing im greatfull that i have to kill millions of mobs to get higher level. I just found a way to do a succesfull facestabs :D Being pwning people in dynasty with my event a grade ever since :D
Actually for one thing im greatfull that i have to kill millions of mobs to get higher level. I just found a way to do a succesfull facestabs :D Being pwning people in dynasty with my event a grade ever since :D
Enjoy it while you can. You can't really keep blinding blow when you awaken.
cuz from playing dagger since many years i noticed that out of all awakend characters dagger is the most weakest...
The point is, daggers are their own class for a reason... they don't get the "im a tank ill sit here and take any damage thrown at me", nor are they tyrr warriors with their 100% skills and consistent big damage dealing,
In PvE at least i've noticed i do half kill a lot, and as long as i have decent buffs my damage from the back of mobs starts getting pretty ridiculous. In PvP you're forgetting your place. As an elf i get 3 evasions aswell as a skill evasion, and a dash... i can easily go over 300 evasion, and cap 300 run speed, coupled with the fact that i can disappear completely if things get rough. As a dagger you're meant to pick your fights, because you have the skills to do so, it isn't a run and gun class by any means, and if you want one of those you should go warrior/nuker
Which is basically useless when you remember that the game past awakening is fully skill based with very little autoattack. Who cares if you have 300 evasion if you're getting hit by armor destruction > eruption > mega strike > power bomber > knockdown attack. Tanks don't bow anymore, they pull you and smack you for 2k. Only UE/AoD matter for the skill dodge.
In fact the only class that really needs to melee is other rogues to apply poison quicker and level up maximum critical.
I'm not saying rogues suck, it just makes me cringe when people bring up evasion being good for daggers because it's so useless now.
Which is basically useless when you remember that the game past awakening is fully skill based with very little autoattack. Who cares if you have 300 evasion if you're getting hit by armor destruction > eruption > mega strike > power bomber > knockdown attack. Tanks don't bow anymore, they pull you and smack you for 2k. Only UE/AoD matter for the skill dodge.
In fact the only class that really needs to melee is other rogues to apply poison quicker and level up maximum critical.
I'm not saying rogues suck, it just makes me cringe when people bring up evasion being good for daggers because it's so useless now.
i didn't list this as the only advantage though, so why the rant?
i'm sure i heard in some patch notes (gracia/freya?) that normal evasion has a small chance to dodge skills now too...im not sure how that's supposed to work with the new mez system that everyone keeps raving about since loads of debuffs are now linked into skills, i might be wrong though, but the fact that these evasion skills also give debuff resistance, skill evasion and magic evasion, which means there's more benefit to it that just "dodging a normal attack" like you're trying to lead people to believe
all i mean with my post is that there's more to a dagger than just run and gun, you need your wits... you won't win a fight by standing in front of a tank and stabbing them in face
i didn't list this as the only advantage though, so why the rant?
Why so defensive when I said one part of your post was wrong? (Which it is)
i'm sure i heard in some patch notes (gracia/freya?) that normal evasion has a small chance to dodge skills now too..
It doesn't. I remember the patch notes saying this too but regular evasion doesn't work on skills.
but the fact that these evasion skills also give debuff resistance, skill evasion and magic evasion, which means there's more benefit to it that just "dodging a normal attack" like you're trying to lead people to believe
Pretty sure I said the only ones that matter are UE/AoD and my entire point was that regular evasion in your stat box is useless, which it is.
you won't win a fight by standing in front of a tank and stabbing them in face
You will if reverse lethals. Why so wrong. (lolol)
You will if reverse lethals. Why so wrong. (lolol)
If you plan to win fights with the one lethal skill that not only has a 5 minute cooldown, but has such a small chance to lethal that there's hardly any point in using it, then you aren't gonna win many
The point is, daggers are their own class for a reason... they don't get the "im a tank ill sit here and take any damage thrown at me", nor are they tyrr warriors with their 100% skills and consistent big damage dealing,
In PvE at least i've noticed i do half kill a lot, and as long as i have decent buffs my damage from the back of mobs starts getting pretty ridiculous. In PvP you're forgetting your place. As an elf i get 3 evasions aswell as a skill evasion, and a dash... i can easily go over 300 evasion, and cap 300 run speed, coupled with the fact that i can disappear completely if things get rough. As a dagger you're meant to pick your fights, because you have the skills to do so, it isn't a run and gun class by any means, and if you want one of those you should go warrior/nuker
there is one thing wrong about this....fact is yes dagger is the weakest awakend class...secondly evasion doesnt mean **** anymore as proofen by skills landing a 100% secondly run speed doesnt mean anything anymore because most awaken chars got a dash skill/pull skill..so running away is pointless...and if ud manage to get away hes probably on his horse chasing u lol..
as a dagger u should choose ur fights...yea..totally agree with that..but against who?? lol mages got 2 each 8 secs blinks..and they are gone while daggers got 1 shadowchase wich has a cooldown of correct me if im wrong 14 secs cooldown.. <<<wtf?? mages lift u up and by the time ur down ur dead..lol cuz that lands basicly 100% aswell..
i dont even gotta talk about duelling warriors because thats just pathetic..kick down constant stun and imba dmg..heavy armor..ur only chance is to get lucky with lethals..
**** the list goes on and on..and i can tell u so many things they should change and fix about daggers to make em even worth PVPing...
and choosing a battle in lineage 2 is basicly impossible because u see character a mile away...what dagger needs is a sneak skill that doesnt cost any mana (because thats all we use in pvp and we aint got much of it) and doesnt decrease speed and that might give u an advantage on winning a 1vs1 against any class with an instant critical backstab..
and wtf is the talk about PVE?? thats the only thing daggers are really good at when awakened...doing pve...great i got a imba pve character lol...Dagger class is gimped with skills that dont work at all just look at power bluff when i read the skill description about that i can basicly only shake my head and say GZ ncsoft for being dumb again. ..daggers needs lots of work to be anywhere decent for 1vs1 pvp..and as we all know NCSoft wont do jack **** about it...simple
all this is based on 1vs1 pvp..
The point is, daggers are their own class for a reason... they don't get the "im a tank ill sit here and take any damage thrown at me", nor are they tyrr warriors with their 100% skills and consistent big damage dealing,
then wtf is dagger supposed to be?? walking paper that doesnt deal any dmg and has to get lucky with skills that dont work?? GZ..epic fail..
If you plan to win fights with the one lethal skill that not only has a 5 minute cooldown, but has such a small chance to lethal that there's hardly any point in using it, then you aren't gonna win many
Impressive sarcasm detection tbh. I would have thought the lolol in brackets would have made it obvious for you but people on retail never cease to amaze me.
All along i remember, every1 was compaining about daggers... since C1. also for mages. Firstly was "why dagger kill by 3 skills tank", to mages was always complaining about sleep CD". Coz of this, daggers are weaker then ever. I am playing dagger now, and have no idea with who make pvp??!! Reason. 1vs1 with same lvl tank. My dmg-> 60-240crits. His dmg 200-600??!!. Same buffs, armors/weapons from packs. So WTF?? Next thing Dagger vs mage same lvl same buffs. My dmg 150-600 his 1100. So again WTF??!! even when i do hide he can attack/target me?? WTF!! I was thinking about making Othell Rouge, but thank god i have stone of destiny. Btw even with spaming switch/trick nothing happen... so WTF!!
its just frustating to see that after so many years and so many changes NCsoft cant make it right at the first time..dont they learn out of theyr mistakes??
whats a good way to get this to any kind of attention to ncsoft in order for this to get fixed and changed??
probably went free2play so can care even less about whats going on lol..see the lack of skill descritions lol..
The biggest problem with rogues is all the prerequisite we need to do any kind of decent damage. Need lvl3 critical damage up, poison applied to target, be behind target, have bleed on target.
And after all that the resist rates we get on shadow chase and our bleed from bstab is crazy they literally land a third of the time if not less. Power bluff is almost useless, poison cloud would be usefull if it actually worked in pvp and then we get a 5min cooldown lethal strike move I mean cmon.
I could do a detailed breakdown of how every class rapes us but its not needed. If they know how to play even the slighest our only chance is getting a lucky double crit.
Dagger classes QQ'ing cause they lost their insta-win uber skillz.
this is just typical hate talk..ill ignore this once NCsoft changes daggers and nerves every other class...wich is going to happen...
The biggest problem with rogues is all the prerequisite we need to do any kind of decent damage. Need lvl3 critical damage up, poison applied to target, be behind target, have bleed on target.
And after all that the resist rates we get on shadow chase and our bleed from bstab is crazy they literally land a third of the time if not less. Power bluff is almost useless, poison cloud would be usefull if it actually worked in pvp and then we get a 5min cooldown lethal strike move I mean cmon.
I could do a detailed breakdown of how every class rapes us but its not needed. If they know how to play even the slighest our only chance is getting a lucky double crit.
and i completly agree with bigcheese..whats the point of making a CLASS called dagger if u dont give em the advantage of being able to do ANY kind of dmg vs. other classes...throw that class out of the game its not worth..and im sorry for all the people that are making daggers right now and dont know anything on how gimp they will be in pvp..
inspiration for me to get 90 for clone attack..
i'm quite curious of it's cool down though as it doesn't list it in the Learn Skills tab, only cast range and mp cost are there oO
i think daggers probably suffer a lot more as people are generally fully buffed with enchanters being the only required buff class, whereas previously (in my experiences as a dagger) people would only be leveling with prophet/se buffs and a dagger would hit like a truck with minimal buffs
Half kills very rare ,low dmg, little hp , bluff that doesn't work, but the best is skill with 5 min reuse. Now when mobs are harder in swamps, awekened daggers should get back to the GC. n/c
Half kills very rare ,low dmg, little hp , bluff that doesn't work, but the best is skill with 5 min reuse. Now when mobs are harder in swamps, awekened daggers should get back to the GC. n/c
exactly and a poision that doesnt land, blood stab that has a low chance on landing lol...low defense...AOEs that dont deal dmg for ****....
but hey...see the good side in daggers...we get to spoil mobs...isnt that awesome...make us more PVE as we supposed to be lol..GZ ncsoft..big time fail..
Half kills very rare ,low dmg, little hp , bluff that doesn't work, but the best is skill with 5 min reuse. Now when mobs are harder in swamps, awekened daggers should get back to the GC. n/c
What the hell are you guys talking about? As I could see, daggers are now great DD's dependant on tank, but still great! Halfkills works nicely. What do you want more? Everyone tells that warrior suck, dagger suck, healer suck etc. But what I saw and could play, awakened characters are way much better than those before. Yes, you lost some of your skills, but you get new. Learn to play with them and stop trashtalk :p.
What the hell are you guys talking about? As I could see, daggers are now great DD's dependant on tank, but still great! Halfkills works nicely. What do you want more? Everyone tells that warrior suck, dagger suck, healer suck etc. But what I saw and could play, awakened characters are way much better than those before. Yes, you lost some of your skills, but you get new. Learn to play with them and stop trashtalk :p.
what the hell are u talking about?? if u would have followed this conversation just a little bit u would have noticed its pvp based...noone in this thread even wants to start talking about pve...and wtf are u talking about daggers being DD depending on the tank?? dude go spam some other forum cuz apparently u have no clue about othell rogues..thanks byeeeee
You can't use Russian servers for anything here, who knows what changes they made to skills, as far as I'm concerned Innova runs a legit private server, unlike Korea/TW/US servers
You can't use Russian servers for anything here, who knows what changes they made to skills, as far as I'm concerned Innova runs a legit private server, unlike Korea/TW/US servers
u.u the time will show us the real power or the real **** OR are... :/
you guyz says daggers are fine..? you see movies based on dark elfs daggers doing 5k dmg imagine a elfs daggers with -10 str... should i comment?:rolleyes:
those are movies back in the days...u cant compare daggers now to what they were back then....back in the days we had 100% land rate on any skill...thats why we were so op to any class..now we barely got 20% landrate on any skill...
today at aden siege i extremly noticed that the blood stab skill lands for ****...makes it impossible to use my chain blow...wich is the best skill dagger has..besiides that 5 min **** skill..and its really annoying..
those are movies back in the days...u cant compare daggers now to what they were back then....back in the days we had 100% land rate on any skill...thats why we were so op to any class..now we barely got 20% landrate on any skill...
today at aden siege i extremly noticed that the blood stab skill lands for ****...makes it impossible to use my chain blow...wich is the best skill dagger has..besiides that 5 min **** skill..and its really annoying..
Blood Stab hurts, but has a chance to inflict a bleed. It's the bleed you need for the Chain Blow. Considering Divine Protection alone gets you 50% Bleed Resistance, I think you can see that the reason this skill lands for ****-all has proper reasoning behind it. There's too many resistances.
Daggers are situational classes. The good will kill, the bad will be killed. I think it's fairly clear where you stand.
Before you start spouting your ********, yes you have troubles against Tanks and Warriors, but those are usually some of your ONLY real problems. If you're having trouble killing anything else, ESPECIALLY if they're not rocking Knight's Harmony, then it's not the class that's bad, it's you that are bad at the class.
Knight's Harmony is a good point. A lot of these hot shots like to roll around with Warrior's Harmony to make BIG DAMAGE. Then they wonder why daggers stab them in the back for five digits. SURPRISE. Know what to use during PVP and what not to use and you'll be OK, otherwise a dagger is the class that will eat you alive.
Hi... For gms and all daggers players... whats the diversity between daggers races? cuz i realy dont get it, im trying to understand but i cant think how bad it is. Think about it:confused:
3RD
Most important skills
HUMANS 40STR - MIRAGE, FOCUS POWER, FOCUS CHANCE, DASH, EVASION HASTE
You can't use Russian servers for anything here, who knows what changes they made to skills, as far as I'm concerned Innova runs a legit private server, unlike Korea/TW/US servers
people still play private servers?
i thought private servers were pretty much dead since retail went free.not that i care anyway,been there done that.retail is free to play so id rather play retail then some ****** l2j private server
Blood Stab hurts, but has a chance to inflict a bleed. It's the bleed you need for the Chain Blow. Considering Divine Protection alone gets you 50% Bleed Resistance, I think you can see that the reason this skill lands for ****-all has proper reasoning behind it. There's too many resistances.
Daggers are situational classes. The good will kill, the bad will be killed. I think it's fairly clear where you stand.
Before you start spouting your ********, yes you have troubles against Tanks and Warriors, but those are usually some of your ONLY real problems. If you're having trouble killing anything else, ESPECIALLY if they're not rocking Knight's Harmony, then it's not the class that's bad, it's you that are bad at the class.
Knight's Harmony is a good point. A lot of these hot shots like to roll around with Warrior's Harmony to make BIG DAMAGE. Then they wonder why daggers stab them in the back for five digits. SURPRISE. Know what to use during PVP and what not to use and you'll be OK, otherwise a dagger is the class that will eat you alive.
What classes are you dying to?
im not even going to respond to that...ur the biggest **** talker lineage 2 has atm and its really emberrasing that someone like u thinks he got an opinion about dagger class and whats wrong with it. lol
and for khazad the only difference in any dagger class in awakened are the raciel bonuses u get...and DE dagger has the best atm.
and when it comes down to character stats since GOD they are extremly untrue..with the STR ammount my DE dagger has i would be dealing insane alot more dmg as i do right now..
im not even going to respond to that...ur the biggest **** talker lineage 2 has atm and its really emberrasing that someone like u thinks he got an opinion about dagger class and whats wrong with it. lol
and for khazad the only difference in any dagger class in awakened are the raciel bonuses u get...and DE dagger has the best atm.
and when it comes down to character stats since GOD they are extremly untrue..with the STR ammount my DE dagger has i would be dealing insane alot more dmg as i do right now..
for me this is not L2 anymore.. dont makes any sense. NCSoft is trying copy WOW or something? only difference between classes is racial skills?? Rotfl:confused:
im not even going to respond to that...ur the biggest **** talker lineage 2 has atm and its really emberrasing that someone like u thinks he got an opinion about dagger class and whats wrong with it. lol
and for khazad the only difference in any dagger class in awakened are the raciel bonuses u get...and DE dagger has the best atm.
and when it comes down to character stats since GOD they are extremly untrue..with the STR ammount my DE dagger has i would be dealing insane alot more dmg as i do right now..
Oh, okay. So I make valid points, but you discard me because u mad that u bad at Dagger class.
Disregard what this guy is saying. Dagger class is basically this:
You now have to THINK to play the class. If you run in and try to burst people down, you're going to die. If you play your cards right, wait for the right procs and set things up properly, you will be doing consistent 10~15k damage to non-heavy armor users. AKA: Properly played daggers are going to **** you up the *** sideways and they're going to do it dry.
Heavy armor wearers, on the other hand, have a tendency to dominate Dagger classes because suddenly their stabs are doing 3k or less and it's a total joke, this is especially the case if the opponent is also rocking Knight's Harmony.
This is called Rock-Paper-Scissors, as in... Just because you tear through Robes and obliterate Light Armor wearers doesn't mean you should destroy Heavy Armor wearers as well. If that was the case, why play anything other than Dagger?
This topic is made by a player who doesn't know what he's doing with a dagger. I've seen his boy BigCheese fight on his dagger and it was literally this:
Shadow Step, stab, stab, opponent turns to face him, he keeps stabbing. Wow, just using Shadow Step doesn't win the fight anymore? What do you mean facestabbing never lands? What world am I living in?
Kids are jokes. Daggers are fine, but they require a fair amount of testing and getting the hang of. If you don't like looking into mechanics and figuring out how a class works, Dagger isn't for you, but believe me when I say this. You won't see a Healer, Nuker, Archer, or Summoner say "lol daggers suck" unless of course it's the player who is sucking.
^ sup maxfactor
To reiterate, all of these clowns are expecting to be able to stab people in the back and two shot them every time whenever they feel like it. Well, ****, Cletus. If that was the case, again, WHY WOULD ANYONE PLAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN DAGGER?
Herp and Derp: Learn to play, or get out.
EDIT: Also, yeah. Tauti is buffing them. We'll see who's still playing Lineage II in the 8~12 months that will take to hit NA. Probably nobody, because by then all the long-awaited MMO's will most likely be out, so you best act on the here and now, not what's up and coming.
And here is the post I've been waiting for so long lol.. And I'm gonna start off by telling u that I've been in l2 for a long time and since I play I play dagger.. So don't tell me I don't know how to play my class... And for one thing ur totally wrong about is that every player knows daggers attack from the back that's where they are best at.. And if our skill would work properly *cough* power bluff *cough* then we would be constantly stabbing from the back.. As I said again u don't play dagger and I bet u never have.. Therefor u don't know what ur talking about.. U got no clue what is messed up about daggers. By as much research ur doing about dagger classes u won't find a place to talk in here. And nobody in here ever talked about dagger not winning against tanks so no clue where u got that from.. People that ever posted in here know exactly how to play theyr class and that's why they are posting in here cuz they see the leaks the dagger class has and how underpowered it is looking at most other awakened classes... Oh and 1 thing ur definitely wrong about is that a dagger has to play his cards right... There will be never any situation where u wait till the perfect moment comes in lineage 2... If dagger class has constant hide with no movement decrease and mana drain ya that might look different ur Arguement had a meaning but it doesn't... And if u payed any close attention to the community it's not only the dagger say its gimped it's also any other class that ever pvpd a dagger. And for ur info u always had to think as a dagger it's never been any different.. Not like any other class stand in the distance and nuke **** down..
As I said ur Arguement about dagger has no solid ground cuz u dont play one..and therefor got no clue about its strength or it's weakness.. U still haven't proven any solid fact which hasn't been brought up in this thread already.. So u might just take ur spam and post it somewhere else..
Oh, okay. So I make valid points, but you discard me because u mad that u bad at Dagger class.
Disregard what this guy is saying. Dagger class is basically this:
You now have to THINK to play the class. If you run in and try to burst people down, you're going to die. If you play your cards right, wait for the right procs and set things up properly, you will be doing consistent 10~15k damage to non-heavy armor users. AKA: Properly played daggers are going to **** you up the *** sideways and they're going to do it dry.
Heavy armor wearers, on the other hand, have a tendency to dominate Dagger classes because suddenly their stabs are doing 3k or less and it's a total joke, this is especially the case if the opponent is also rocking Knight's Harmony.
This is called Rock-Paper-Scissors, as in... Just because you tear through Robes and obliterate Light Armor wearers doesn't mean you should destroy Heavy Armor wearers as well. If that was the case, why play anything other than Dagger?
This topic is made by a player who doesn't know what he's doing with a dagger. I've seen his boy BigCheese fight on his dagger and it was literally this:
Shadow Step, stab, stab, opponent turns to face him, he keeps stabbing. Wow, just using Shadow Step doesn't win the fight anymore? What do you mean facestabbing never lands? What world am I living in?
Kids are jokes. Daggers are fine, but they require a fair amount of testing and getting the hang of. If you don't like looking into mechanics and figuring out how a class works, Dagger isn't for you, but believe me when I say this. You won't see a Healer, Nuker, Archer, or Summoner say "lol daggers suck" unless of course it's the player who is sucking.
^ sup maxfactor
To reiterate, all of these clowns are expecting to be able to stab people in the back and two shot them every time whenever they feel like it. Well, ****, Cletus. If that was the case, again, WHY WOULD ANYONE PLAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN DAGGER?
Herp and Derp: Learn to play, or get out.
EDIT: Also, yeah. Tauti is buffing them. We'll see who's still playing Lineage II in the 8~12 months that will take to hit NA. Probably nobody, because by then all the long-awaited MMO's will most likely be out, so you best act on the here and now, not what's up and coming.
For you... i just have a litle question, because you dont get the point of this thread.. Why should people choose human/elf dagger, if they have the lower STR between daggers classes, you know the only DIFFERENCE between daggers NOW its STR no more DIFFERENCE ok? NO MORE, elf/humans have the lower and dark elf have the higher, i just want you to tell me Why should people choose elf/human dagger. Give me a good reason
Just wanted to remind you that dwarven daggers exists (BH), and they are actually pretty awesome pre awakening (not a factor, but worth mentioning) ... stats on them looks pretty decent aswell now that str / con is more mandatory than dex.
For you... i just have a litle question, because you dont get the point of this thread.. Why should people choose human/elf dagger, if they have the lower STR between daggers classes, you know the only DIFFERENCE between daggers NOW its STR no more DIFFERENCE ok? NO MORE, elf/humans have the lower and dark elf have the higher, i just want you to tell me Why should people choose elf/human dagger. Give me a good reason
Because adventurer dash is 30s cooldown while shadow dash (the new one) has a cooldown of 1 minute and you need to hit 99 before it even gives 66 speed like the adventurer dash. Old dash is literally twice as good, even at 99.
STR doesn't influence your stab damage too heavily, only your skill crit rate which is already incredibly high. 7v7 fights aren't won by lucky skill crits, they're won by consistancy. Not now the standard party setup is 2 healers and an enchanter, that's a lot of res before you even factor in bres. You need mobility. I got the best of both worlds because I was a bladedancer awakened into a dagger so I kept dark elf stats but old dash which is probably the best combo possible for a dagger. If I had to pick one or the other though, the dash makes all the difference.
Unbind is also arguably more useful in dagger vs dagger fights because if you skill crit it you have 20 seconds of being immune to bleed, which WILL land in olympiad and on anybody who doesn't have a 50% bleed resist. It also gives you added protection against warriors because eruption is probably the most overpowered skill in the game right now. The dark elf racial is nice but it bugs your target out so for the most part, while you are protected for 5 seconds you're also not dealing damage. There. That was hard.
The only dagger that genuinely sucks is plainswalker but gee that's not really news is it. Off to sleep to wake up to maxfactor posting some crap about how I don't know **** about dagger lol!
Originally I didn't want to post anything because you're all so bad that I feel it would be wasted on you but we'll see I guess.
me talking crap lol...im not saying ur talking crap ur comment has a valid statement..
the difference is when ppl come in here and talk and dont even play dagger but think they know all about this class..like our mr. crysillion who basicly lives in the forums and not ingame...gz to that...forum spammer all he is..
Because adventurer dash is 30s cooldown while shadow dash (the new one) has a cooldown of 1 minute and you need to hit 99 before it even gives 66 speed like the adventurer dash. Old dash is literally twice as good, even at 99.
STR doesn't influence your stab damage too heavily, only your skill crit rate which is already incredibly high. 7v7 fights aren't won by lucky skill crits, they're won by consistancy. Not now the standard party setup is 2 healers and an enchanter, that's a lot of res before you even factor in bres. You need mobility. I got the best of both worlds because I was a bladedancer awakened into a dagger so I kept dark elf stats but old dash which is probably the best combo possible for a dagger. If I had to pick one or the other though, the dash makes all the difference.
Unbind is also arguably more useful in dagger vs dagger fights because if you skill crit it you have 20 seconds of being immune to bleed, which WILL land in olympiad and on anybody who doesn't have a 50% bleed resist. It also gives you added protection against warriors because eruption is probably the most overpowered skill in the game right now. The dark elf racial is nice but it bugs your target out so for the most part, while you are protected for 5 seconds you're also not dealing damage. There. That was hard.
The only dagger that genuinely sucks is plainswalker but gee that's not really news is it. Off to sleep to wake up to maxfactor posting some crap about how I don't know **** about dagger lol!
Originally I didn't want to post anything because you're all so bad that I feel it would be wasted on you but we'll see I guess.
in a full of words you didnt answer the question but ok, you cant answer the questions, i think even GMs cant answer the question. The blond is completely wrong, the new STR: P. Atk., P. Critical Damage.
check the Dmg at 1:12 OMG i hope that OR at lvl 90+ is like that :P
in a 13 minuts video mass pvp, only but only 2 times blood stab work inflicting bleed, in a 13 minuts video only 2 times chain blow. Basically daggers now is 2 blows.
in a full of words you didnt answer the question but ok, you cant answer the questions, i think even GMs cant answer the question. The blond is completely wrong, the new STR: P. Atk., P. Critical Damage.
And how much crit dmg do you think it adds? Do you think it's like 100 crit dmg per point of STR or something? Pro tip : It's not. Every other modifier possible, +4 duals, an epic, even just having max critical lv1 on is influencing your crit dmg more than the STR gap.
As for the video. The reason why deff hit's so hard is because if you have a look at his targets he's only hitting 15k or so on people who don't have knight's harmony. Your stabs are so sensitive to pdef now that anyone with knights, exactly as Crysillion says, is going to be almost impossible for you to kill. Deff has 2 epics, higher level stabs and better daggers, yet I have none of that and I have hit for 15k backstabs on people who run around with warrior's or knight's, want screenshots? That one buff ruins you and that is the difference. We aren't "nerfed" here.
Basically daggers now is 2 blows.
Anybody who's been playing dagger for a day even is going to know this already. Surprised still? In olympiad chain blow will be viable but that's why in open pvp you have to make your 2 stabs count. Your melee damage on +4 dual daggers with max crit up is also very very good, don't ever underestimate it. There's been times that even with a perfect setup (poison applied, lv2-3 max crit, counter crit on) when I've shadowstepped and not killed someone with both stabs, my melee has finished them off or throw dagger has finished them while bsoeing (SUP CHICKIDYCHINA) You're not just 2 stabs, you're 2 stabs and very very good autoattack.
My friend and mysef who are PvE player Elf dagger and human dager just awaken as rouge and is greatly disapoint in the dependent of spaming stab and mp to kill mob just to xp. Dagger xping before GOD barely have to spam skill to xp, sure it help kill faster. But skill spaming is for pvp only not for xping on mob. With decent gear and buff/ dance dagger can tank(vr back) mob our level or higher and do big crit damage without relying on stab skill. My dagger can solo mob in lower GC with buff /dance with only critwound skill. But now in DE swampland doing daily quest 1 single mob can kill us if we are unlucky and non of our stab land which happen often. We can't even vr back the hp to fight 1 mob. we have decent gear 300 resist to earth/dark/water vesper armor, and Skull dager Crit dmage 300 element wind and +4Dual Vesp dual 300 element wind.
I know most people don't care much about PvE but to us casual player it really break or make the class we create to play. I love how good our dagger WAS before GOD, the big crit damage from normal attack, we vr back and tank strong mob and do not rely on stab skill just to xp. We do not have the mp to keep spaming, Every other awaken class get more mp then Rouge.
We now depend to much on rare 1/2 kill and even rarer leathal to kill mob too much mp dependent. So what make new XP spot like DE swampland and SOA solo instant mob so hard to kill without spaming stab skill?
1. Mob have bigger HP now? Not really the problem since dager suppose to deal lot of damage. and before GOD, GC mob have lot of HP too we can tank solo them easy.
2. Mob have higher element resist? From reading with 300 element on weapon we should still do more damage even mob resist from 220 to 270 certain element
3. Mob resist more debuff now? For dagger we don't use many debuff since we do crit damage, crit wound skill help but even with awaken skill passive debuff when it land our normal attack is still to weak to kill and vr back hp from xping.
4. Mob have more pdef now? Possible since normal attack is so weak now doing 100 to 300 damage, and crit around 2-3k, while stab does 4-7k which if like old pre-GOD skill bypass pdef? It feel like i'm fighting a knight class mob everywhere while xp.
5. Why other class like warrior and archer have many skill that hit 100% with much stronger patck power? While dagger get skill with much lower land rate and lesser skill patck power?? All melee awaken skill can crit and lethal now. My friend who play Yul archer has 5-6 skill with 18-24k patck power and hit 100% with 5 to 7 sec reuse. They have more HP and MP then a Rouge? When we same clan skill, same level and same armor.
It seem in GOD rouge ability get cut in half specially in xping , lowest mp and hp class even mage has more hp/cp then us. With the low land rate and dependent on stab skill power should be in the 30-35k range to make up for the low land rate. What funny is I power bluff a mob twice then run to the back and fail to land 8 stab in the back of the mob while it stand there laughing at me.
just my 2cent sharing our noob dagger PvE experience from pre-GOD and now awaken Othell rouge.
in the Dye and symbols section under DEX it says increases success rate of DAGGER SKILLS...it also calls out for run speed wich i was reading on a different official site that its not affected by dex anymore...so im kinda confused is DEX still the way to go as dagger...cuz in STR it doesnt call out for pcrit only for patk..that has been changed also...
Why should a Dagger in Light Armor Destroy Tanks / Warrior? If I just use my imagination, a Tank in Heavy Armor, very well protected and someone comes with a kitchen knife and tries to stab me? The only thing you will hear is a metal on metal sound. So what it sound like is, I want my dagger class to be OP so I can **** some face and make awesome youtube videos? I remember a perma red lvl 83 Human dagger killing every single person in a few hits. Of course if I roll dagger because I think it's the uber class in PvP I would sit here and raise the tissue stock market as well. I just think that the game went to what it suppose to be, rock paper, scissors. I love to watch Oly or duel from other people, and when I see Dagger vs. some other classes, mostly the dagger wins. I had duel once with a dagger and he killed two of my pets faster then I could use my marks and exile / heal. There are lvl 5 dyes out there +5 str with no - anything, the right weapon maybe later with dmg up and crit dmg on one hand daggers and then everyone else will cry how OP daggers are.
It's funny that it's always as long as your own class is OP in PvP you never cry, as soon you are not..... *point at the youtube video*
Sounds like you kiddies cant handle a good class that requires some thought. That is completely OKAY, i rolled othell to be unique. So many archers so little time to wreck them.
imma get my duels done by this weekend and try my luck on a good augment. seems like dagger is more fun to play in pvp with 90+
i love my dagger char. never regret rolling it..just bugs me that god is mainly AOE focused..havent seen the higher lvl mobs yet if daggers will be needed or if everything is just AOE from now on lol..
in the Dye and symbols section under DEX it says increases success rate of DAGGER SKILLS...it also calls out for run speed wich i was reading on a different official site that its not affected by dex anymore...so im kinda confused is DEX still the way to go as dagger...cuz in STR it doesnt call out for pcrit only for patk..that has been changed also...
anyone got some deeper insight in this??
Did you bother to look at the fact that it still states that Dex is effecting run speed? Obvious you didn't before you posted. Or else you'd realize this is out dated info. Which shouldn't be used.
By removing run speed from Dex they made the stat useless. It now no longer matters adding an tattoo to increase this stat as it doesn't do anything for you, except for attack speed, which probably doesn't matter as u spam skills, and if the rule of "attack speed" not affecting reuse times, then what's the point of worrying about it?
Max crt rate? from dex, NOPE! You don't need dex any more, because: A) no one uses general attacks after awakening. B) crt rate, and haste don't matter on skills. C) Who cares about accuracy? you aren't going to be grinding on red mobs, skills don't need accuracy to land. D) Crt rate maxes out really easily at 85+ by just buffs alone. E) evasion, well can u use evasion to evade a skill hit? no, but you can use skills to do so...
wish i could go back and keep my treasure hunter dash, i'm struggling like **** to catch people here if shadow chase fails. I'm not really having any problems killing people (aside from tyrr warrs/tanks) but when they start kiting me i'm screwed.
losing 26 runspeed kinda sucks
k 1, Daggers dont suck. Ever. Sorry. Few classes in this game just outright "Suck" and dagger is not one of them.
second, daggers would be much better if theyre skills were 100% land rate like everyone else skills. Give us that and were golden.
and third, well get a buff sooner or later. They cant leave daggers this effed up for long. Just wait till next update.
Got to give some credit to the fact that this is the first up grade with awakened classes, it is entirely possible that NCsofts testing failed at some point, and they didn't notice that Daggers where underpowered unless certain cercumstances took place... It's promissing to me, that they've spoted a need to boost melee. And are attempting to make a change in their favor next chronicle!
k 1, Daggers dont suck. Ever. Sorry. Few classes in this game just outright "Suck" and dagger is not one of them.
second, daggers would be much better if theyre skills were 100% land rate like everyone else skills. Give us that and were golden.
and third, well get a buff sooner or later. They cant leave daggers this effed up for long. Just wait till next update.
Stabs have never been 100% landrate, do you know how ridiculously stupid that would make us? And also what classes have been able to half-kill and lethal?(excluding phaggy archers this update). Were getting buffed next update so it's all pointless in the end.
My only real complaint is lack of stabs compared to our 3rd class counterparts and you can't spam stabs anymore, reuses too long in comparison to # of skills and blood stab never wants to land in pvp.
I have absolutely no problems with my dagger. I know a lot of people want to stab people in the face and have things work out but the class has become a lot more agile than that.
The big problem however that I have noticed is the lack of ability to get behind people if bluff and your port don't work. That's quite often if you don't have epic jewels or levels on someone.
Currently I have no problems catching people that kite me, if you can just get Heart off you should have plenty of speed with your other movement buff to catch anyone and make them wish they were face tanking you instead of trying to kite.
I'd agree that it's kind of lame that we really only have 2 stabs now because one of the others is on a 5 min CD and the other is pretty useless. We do have a lot of tools though and I enjoy the class a lot more that I did pre-awakened. We're just an RNG class, that's all it is.