I know a lot of people are wondering about the playstyle of the different awakening classes. I have two class change certificates on my WC (who will be my box Iss) (one sub is 79 and one is 40). It is quite prime for trying out some classes. My first change was to lv 79 Elemental Summer, all skills learned! (From 79 SH, nuker is nuker).
I've seen some fighter bodies running around with summons out, so obviously some people are using stones of destiny to become summoners.
Anyone here reading this a Summoner or know someone on Chronos who wouldn't mind chatting about how they like it and party roles (especially since it's not ES-nuker, WL-fighter, PS-lol anymore)?
I'm guessing playing a lv 79 will give me a decent sample of the life, but even though summoner is now one of eight available class, it is definitely unrepresented as compared to rogue/warrior.
My basic playstyle goal is that I don't like being in the face of mob. So on raid boss I'm smacking its ankles and I can't even see anything past the soulshot spray. My GK main was on the laptop, assisting my live WC. (Most ppl have the buffer AF while they play the DD.)
Right now I'm considering archer since I don't have to drag around both bd and sws to have any fun. Enchanter is such a life saver in 5 levels... lf mentor =)
I went from Doombringer to Summoner, in the first 2 hours I thought about re-roll, because I was very disappointed in the dmg output, till I found one cute little buff called ultimate servitor share and suddenly you got a fire and forget button and you kill 2 mobs in the same time as most other classes kill one.
In parties you can do either single mob dmg or aoe dmg depending on your lvl and summon. I love this my summoner, if it would be a female char, I would've want a baby with it! It's good to have parties for faster xp but if you don't find parties you almost equally fast in solo xp.
In PvP you got one great Advantage, most Classes let you lose target with certain skills, but since you can put your servitor on master protect, they will always hunt down the person trying to kill you.
Dmg wise, well with the reapers I crit for 15k each with skills you barely waste mana and you can recharge mp really quick while giving them your own mp. Cougars are little rogues, they crit a lot and with all buff in Harnak up 12k. So you don't need to hide from all the other DD's on top of that you got your DoT's which you can remove with a skill and deal extra dmg.
If you want I can show you tomorrow since I'm on chronos.
lazoo plz as you are high lvl give some feedback about summoners.
what is their position in pvp?are they good?summon dmg is respectable on pvp cause i knew that summons have reduced dmg on pvp.about pet stats how are they?their hp and defence.are they able to take some hits or die 2 hits vs wizards archers?
^^
summons have dmg reduced in pvp because you have transfer pain(I'd prefer less transfer pain but more damage from servitors). But you will do things in pvp, like deal your marks + mark crusher and some nukes(60% of the damage is yours - 40% is from servitors in pvp I guess)
Summons won't die in 2 hits anymore after 83-85, with servitor share(83) - final servitor share(85), they have much more p-def and m-def than you(cougars with 2.5k+ p def and 4-5k m def at lvl 85 for example).
Its better for you to keep the old transfer pain, because the new transfers 75% of the dmg to servitor, you are not able to heal you summon so easily as before, because the new heal needs the summon target.
so the other guy was right that summons do 100 dmg:(sad to hear.whats your lvl and what experience you have on pvp furu(i mean vs what class we have probs)
gief more knowledge :D.
so the other guy was right that summons do 100 dmg:(sad to hear.whats your lvl and what experience you have on pvp furu(i mean vs what class we have probs)
gief more knowledge :D.
ty again in advance
So i'll give my input. NOTE: I learned ALL the new skills of the summoner class, I have NO old skills.
In 1v1 or small group PvP we're still good, but if you aren't full buffed you're useless. Personally I'm using a bow with cougars in PvP and when they are full buffed they do fairly decent damage. It isn't that great however compared to what other classes can dish out.
UD is also another problem as if you use ANY skills it is canceled.
Dots seem to get resisisted quite a bit as well (marks), and if they do your damage goes completely out the window, then we also have a lovely skill Exile that kind of screws us too because it limits the damage that you can dish out.
I've noticed both good and bads about the summoner though. Against tanks its hard to win, same with archers and rogues if they crit. Wizards you can beat so long as your M. Def is half way decent, if not you're screwed.
Bottom line, if you can't think quickly you wont win with a summoner. You have to pull out A LOT of tricks to win, and get lucky too. If you aren't good as micromanaging you, your pets, and another person you wont be a good summoner. You have to know when and how to use your skills, know when and if to kite and what to do at all times. The slightest misstep and you're going to lose the fight.
In PVE
As others said, we're beast in PvE. Cougars are insane if you have a good melee damage weapon like a bow, and the nukers are great if you've got a good mage weapon. You're tankier than you'd think with transfer pain and can do great single target/AoE damage. Again, you need full buffs to achieve the insane possible DPS but if you have them you're going to be a major party DD.
Add your insane damage to the fact that you can give MP to your party, you never run out of MP, and your Force saves MP and you're an ideal member for a party.
I'll you this no bull whatsoever. If you're going to play a summoner in pvp, you have to be smart about it. Think outside of the typical playstyle that everyone throws on summoners.
I'm not going to brag or lie. I play a wynn summoner, I can beat tanks, wizards, archers, enchanters and warrior classes with no summon out at all. It's difficult it takes a lot of skill and paying attention, but its very doable. In the hands of the right player this class is stupid, retarted, brokenly overpowered. In the hands of the average player, this class gets mowed over easy. I fought another wynn summoner. I have cocktail buffs and blessing of the giants vs a wynn summoner with full buffs, sonatas and wizards harmony. I fought him 3 times, beat him each time with between 5-8k CP left. It's a whole different game at awakening, whatever you learned from pvp pre awakening on a summoner, throw it out the window cause it doesn't work like that anymore.
Old style is you are your summon's maid. you wipe its nose and clean its mess and it beats up badguys for you. At awakening your summons are tools and you are the boss man.
Other than that, in pve your summons are beastly your cougars can outdamage any class in single targetting other than really rouges and your reapers can easily out nuke, and aoe, a feoh (fail) wizard with the same buffs with the bonus of never running out of mp.
Solowise, summoners always solo easy.
Ignore the noob with the summons doing 100 damage in PvP. Remember that the old style of healing/cleansing and hiding behind your summon is done and over with. Your summons are support, you are the killer.
The 75% transfer pain thing. Truthfully your heals aren't strong enough to out heal incomming damage, honestly even an aoere healer can't keep that thing up. But there are several, several ways around that. Utilize those methods and the 75% transfer pain will prove to be much better than the 50%.
Anyway. I'm not going to spoon feed you info on how to play the class, that's up for you to figure out. Just if you aren't into the extreme micromanagement and aren't a tactical player, don't bother. Play something else.
With focus on healing the summon an aoere healer can keep it alive when you're under fire, but since summon HP bars don't show up in party chat nor does any concern befall them overyourself, the only heals they're likely to recieve are group heals, chain heals, and balance life. All of which won't save the summon if you, the summoner, are focused on. 2 healers group healing may suffice But you have skills to save yourself and your summon so don't rely on a healer.
About racial differences. To sum it up, elf = fast and evasionate, human = resisiliant, dark elf = power house.
You can build your summoner however it fits you with dyes and you can wear robe, light or heavy and any weapon that fits you for the situation.
But even with all that in mind the most important thing is being about to micro quickly and effectively. If you can't do that, nothing you use will help you and you will fail hard in 1v1, small, and mass pvp as well as group pve.
one last thing about transfer pain.i heard that it only goes to the summon you summoned first.so if the first summon dies can i put it on second one or i need to summon new.
one last thing about transfer pain.i heard that it only goes to the summon you summoned first.so if the first summon dies can i put it on second one or i need to summon new.
First sumon dies, tp is swiched to the next one automaticly.
After watching some movies, I noticed that TP stops working when the first summon dies unless it changed in harmony(I don't think so).
When your first summon dies, no more transfer pain until the corpse is gone. Once the corpse is gone the first live summon on the summon list is your transferpain summon.
When a summon dies, it stays dead for a good 20~30 seconds. This was likely done to reduce any potential overpower with Summoners now having multiple summons. In those 20~30 seconds, it's not uncommon for the Summoner to have it's face rocked clean off because it's literally defenseless without Transfer Pain active.
The name of the game is to find out which Summon is the one with TP (and yes, there are legit ways to do this), kill it first, then go right for the Summoner. Killing a Summoner without a pet TP'd is like killing a proper Healer but with no mana to heal. It's pretty much in the bag.
Honestly, as far as this whole "lol you just gotta be super good to win with the class" goes, I have yet to fight anyone who falls under this criteria, so either this guy is lying, or it requires such absolute perfection and timing that at that point you might as well play something else because it'd be effort better spent.
Basically, if you have to be a supreme god of Summoners to be really good with them in PVP, then imagine how good you'd be with a proper PVP class if you were equally good. Here's your answer: Better than a Summoner.
^^
at lvl 85, cougars have around 2.5k P. def and 5k M. def so so, 10k+ HP, of course depending on the master gear, bear has 3k+ P. def, 5k+ m def too, 15K HP.
It won't be easy to kill a summon because they have good p def, m def and hp, + master heal.
When a summon dies, it stays dead for a good 20~30 seconds. This was likely done to reduce any potential overpower with Summoners now having multiple summons. In those 20~30 seconds, it's not uncommon for the Summoner to have it's face rocked clean off because it's literally defenseless without Transfer Pain active.
The name of the game is to find out which Summon is the one with TP (and yes, there are legit ways to do this), kill it first, then go right for the Summoner. Killing a Summoner without a pet TP'd is like killing a proper Healer but with no mana to heal. It's pretty much in the bag.
Honestly, as far as this whole "lol you just gotta be super good to win with the class" goes, I have yet to fight anyone who falls under this criteria, so either this guy is lying, or it requires such absolute perfection and timing that at that point you might as well play something else because it'd be effort better spent.
Basically, if you have to be a supreme god of Summoners to be really good with them in PVP, then imagine how good you'd be with a proper PVP class if you were equally good. Here's your answer: Better than a Summoner.
what you say might be the case.maube if you make the same effort on another beter pvp class you may have beter result.but i played other mmo games too(WOW) and some classes on the hands of an average player were unplayable underpower to hell.on the hands of a good player though,noone could kill them.and he could even take 2 players together.been there done that.but if it is as you say then yes.i am a total noob when it comes to l2 after all thats why i ask for feedback here.:).knight what you have to say about it ?:D
^^
at lvl 85, cougars have around 2.5k P. def and 5k M. def so so, 10k+ HP, of course depending on the master gear, bear has 3k+ P. def, 5k+ m def too, 15K HP.
It won't be easy to kill a summon because they have good p def, m def and hp, + master heal.
2.5k PDEF is actually quite low. I can see how they'd be a huge problem for nukers, however.
2.5k PDEF is actually quite low. I can see how they'd be a huge problem for nukers, however.
I don't think so, it has more p def than any light user(This pdef is based on a summoner with r-85 grade gear). A light user at lvl 85 has something between 1.6k-2k or so pdef with r85-grade, depending on buffs and enchant on gear.
Yes, 2.5k PDEF is pretty good on a player. On a summon, considering it doesn't have any kind of passives or underlying bonuses that players have, it's "okay", but it's nothing great. It's a two shot from daggers and they get blasted by any burst DPS class like Archer.
Yes, 2.5k PDEF is pretty good on a player. On a summon, considering it doesn't have any kind of passives or underlying bonuses that players have, it's "okay", but it's nothing great. It's a two shot from daggers and they get blasted by any burst DPS class like Archer.
Depending on buffs and gear+weapon on master, cougars can have huge p attack: bow is "the weapon" for summoner.
When a summon dies, it stays dead for a good 20~30 seconds. This was likely done to reduce any potential overpower with Summoners now having multiple summons. In those 20~30 seconds, it's not uncommon for the Summoner to have it's face rocked clean off because it's literally defenseless without Transfer Pain active.
The name of the game is to find out which Summon is the one with TP (and yes, there are legit ways to do this), kill it first, then go right for the Summoner. Killing a Summoner without a pet TP'd is like killing a proper Healer but with no mana to heal. It's pretty much in the bag.
Honestly, as far as this whole "lol you just gotta be super good to win with the class" goes, I have yet to fight anyone who falls under this criteria, so either this guy is lying, or it requires such absolute perfection and timing that at that point you might as well play something else because it'd be effort better spent.
Basically, if you have to be a supreme god of Summoners to be really good with them in PVP, then imagine how good you'd be with a proper PVP class if you were equally good. Here's your answer: Better than a Summoner.
what you say might be the case.maube if you make the same effort on another beter pvp class you may have beter result.but i played other mmo games too(WOW) and some classes on the hands of an average player were unplayable underpower to hell.on the hands of a good player though,noone could kill them.and he could even take 2 players together.been there done that.but if it is as you say then yes.i am a total noob when it comes to l2 after all thats why i ask for feedback here.:).knight what you have to say about it ?:D
I have to say that the class does take a lot of skill becauseof that fact that it doesn't not take much to drop the TPed summon and once that summon is dead, the summoner is very vulnerable.
It takes a lot of skill because you're fighting a battle of survivability really. The damage isn't too important in a fight. The damage is there, constantly flowing, and requires little effort from the summoner to supply it unlike every other class. What requires effort, and where the micromanaging comes in, is keeping yourself and your primary summons protected and the class has the skills to make it work it just takes speed and knowing when to use certain skills.
In mass pvp the same thing applies with a little extra. You're supplying damage to the MA while CCing everyone else and making sure you and your summons are protected as it takes just one slip up to have a dead summon on the ground which is basically cutting your health into less of a third. (and more the higher level you are).
All this is in correspondence of having decent players as enemies ofc. Against any randoms well you can afford lots of mistakes and laziness as still and always, most players do not know how to properly fight a summoner.
Well, as far as I realized up to know, Summoner are not the uber-wtf-Ipwonz0r-your-face class.
In PvE I actually get bored, because you just hit fire and forget and with protect master, you can read a newspaper or level a twink. If you wanna hit a lot of buttons, and wanna pay attention then you should play another class.
In Parties you mostly the recharger while your pets do the dmg. Share Mana works for the whole party and gives every member 560 MP / 60 sec.
PvP I had a few duels, I almost beat a Tyrr Warrior without having my Summons attack, I just used my marks and remove them and spammed mark of fire. I lost to a few daggers but not by much, tanks are a pain in the *** and always whoop my butt, haven't had a archer yet but up to know I'm not very convinced about that class anyways.
If you pick Summoner, you are the PvE king you never need to worry about a Party you can grind faster then any other class. In PvP you need a lot of practice and learn about the other classes, which Pet is good in which Situation.
Daggers I fight with my Bears out, while I try to nuke him away and when I run low on HP on my Summon, I exile and heal, heal, heal, then dot, cast, and try to stay alive.
Mages, I attack with my Kitten and then it really depends on your crit luck
Warrior & Tanks, I use Reapers and try to kite them, use my casts from a long distance and just try to outdmg them
Healer & Chanter, well they out heal my dmg, so you need to have a little luck on your side as well
But don't play your class because you wanna **** some faces in PvP, because at the end you maybe kill some newbies, but with skilled players you are on even terms.
I for myself think about re-rollig a Knight, because it's a more challenging class.
Lazloo - if you are playing as a lazy summoner you are not playing to potential.
If you aren't keeping your cooldowns DOWN (unless it doesn't make sense) you are less of a summoner than you should be.
Fire and forget with protect master is definitely not optimal play in PvE.
In PvP, I agree summoners are not the uber class. We have advantages and can give most classes a run for their money, but we are among the hardest to play WELL in PvP and even when we do, some things just don't work out. (summoners must manage their pets AND themselves, most other classes are just themselves and their pet is a distraction)
Sometimes you so completely own people that they just cannot figure out how to ever do anything to you. Skilled players know how to exploit our weaknesses and find that we are squishier than mages in PvP due to them.
Despite this, I got my first post-GoD PvP tick down with my pets all dead.
Underestimating the summoner even without pets is foolish.
Lazloo - if you are playing as a lazy summoner you are not playing to potential.
If you aren't keeping your cooldowns DOWN (unless it doesn't make sense) you are less of a summoner than you should be.
Fire and forget with protect master is definitely not optimal play in PvE.
In PvP, I agree summoners are not the uber class. We have advantages and can give most classes a run for their money, but we are among the hardest to play WELL in PvP and even when we do, some things just don't work out. (summoners must manage their pets AND themselves, most other classes are just themselves and their pet is a distraction)
Sometimes you so completely own people that they just cannot figure out how to ever do anything to you. Skilled players know how to exploit our weaknesses and find that we are squishier than mages in PvP due to them.
Despite this, I got my first post-GoD PvP tick down with my pets all dead.
Underestimating the summoner even without pets is foolish.
That's a good point.
You can, and I've tried it, if you really pay attention and focus. You can beat players without a single servitor summoned from start to finish.
You can absolutely destroy players who don't know how to fight a summoner, and you can get absolutely destroyed by players who do know how to fight a summoner well and you don't know how to counter-react.
Lazloo - if you are playing as a lazy summoner you are not playing to potential.
If you aren't keeping your cooldowns DOWN (unless it doesn't make sense) you are less of a summoner than you should be.
Fire and forget with protect master is definitely not optimal play in PvE.
Solo PvE mobs die faster then you can usually cast a spell, so yeah fire and forget is my option there.
Harnak in a good group where mobs die fast, I focus more on recharge. However in GoG or SoA I pay more attention and use my skills well, such as my DoT's, Mark of Fire and that's all I got right now. I just don't find Summoner as Challenging as a Tank (well, easy said since I never played a Awakening one), where you need to watch out for mobs that want to kill your healer or DD's, picking out the ones that has to go down first and so on. I do like my summoner don't get me wrong, but as soon I join a party all I hear is, recharge, recharge. I hope with 2 - 3 more level and a few more skills it will be more of smashing buttons. But I do agree that a Summoner has way more potential then being lazy and hit the FaF function.
Solo PvE mobs die faster then you can usually cast a spell, so yeah fire and forget is my option there.
Harnak in a good group where mobs die fast, I focus more on recharge. However in GoG or SoA I pay more attention and use my skills well, such as my DoT's, Mark of Fire and that's all I got right now. I just don't find Summoner as Challenging as a Tank (well, easy said since I never played a Awakening one), where you need to watch out for mobs that want to kill your healer or DD's, picking out the ones that has to go down first and so on. I do like my summoner don't get me wrong, but as soon I join a party all I hear is, recharge, recharge. I hope with 2 - 3 more level and a few more skills it will be more of smashing buttons. But I do agree that a Summoner has way more potential then being lazy and hit the FaF function.
Yes you have a single target nuke, an aoe nuke, DOTS with specific debuffs on them, crowd control, recharge, and summons with aggression, aoe stun, jump ( aoe rush + slow), drains, aoes, and skills focused solely on the survival of you and your summons. You have the option to be lazy, but you can save the party and your self from a bad situation and have a lot to offer in pvp... you just have the option to be lazy.
I went from Doombringer to Summoner, in the first 2 hours I thought about re-roll, because I was very disappointed in the dmg output, till I found one cute little buff called ultimate servitor share and suddenly you got a fire and forget button and you kill 2 mobs in the same time as most other classes kill one.
In parties you can do either single mob dmg or aoe dmg depending on your lvl and summon. I love this my summoner, if it would be a female char, I would've want a baby with it! It's good to have parties for faster xp but if you don't find parties you almost equally fast in solo xp.
In PvP you got one great Advantage, most Classes let you lose target with certain skills, but since you can put your servitor on master protect, they will always hunt down the person trying to kill you.
Dmg wise, well with the reapers I crit for 15k each with skills you barely waste mana and you can recharge mp really quick while giving them your own mp. Cougars are little rogues, they crit a lot and with all buff in Harnak up 12k. So you don't need to hide from all the other DD's on top of that you got your DoT's which you can remove with a skill and deal extra dmg.
If you want I can show you tomorrow since I'm on chronos.
Lazoo since you are a kamael summoner I'd like to ask you if you can use the kamael transform while your pets are summoned.
If you could also post some screencaps of the pets' stats with and without the transformation it would be great.
I 'm currently close to awakening my Judicator sub and I don't wanna be another enchanter. I have narrowed it down to either Summoner or Tank and it would be great if you could help.
Lazoo since you are a kamael summoner I'd like to ask you if you can use the kamael transform while your pets are summoned.
If you could also post some screencaps of the pets' stats with and without the transformation it would be great.
I 'm currently close to awakening my Judicator sub and I don't wanna be another enchanter. I have narrowed it down to either Summoner or Tank and it would be great if you could help.
Thx
You can't use the 79 Skill Final Form at all and the Body reinforcement skill only works without your summons, which is pretty useless, unless all your pets are dead and you need to defend yourself. I thought the same thing, I was hoping it work because that would be awesome and probably a instant win in PvP. But Summoners are a funny class anyhow. ;)
You can't use the 79 Skill Final Form at all and the Body reinforcement skill only works without your summons, which is pretty useless, unless all your pets are dead and you need to defend yourself. I thought the same thing, I was hoping it work because that would be awesome and probably a instant win in PvP. But Summoners are a funny class anyhow. ;)
Sorry mate, today I realized they fixed that! You can use your Body Reinforcment skill with summons out. With Buffs + R-Grade event items you got like 13k p.atk and your cougars go up to 32k p.atk haven't checked with the Reapers yet. Go go go Summoner! :p
Sorry mate, today I realized they fixed that! You can use your Body Reinforcment skill with summons out. With Buffs + R-Grade event items you got like 13k p.atk and your cougars go up to 32k p.atk haven't checked with the Reapers yet. Go go go Summoner! :p
That can't be right. I give at best 10-11k pattk per cougar.
i would like to see also a screen of it :D (and buffs if its possible)
With regular Iss Buffs and Body Reinforcement Knight is almost right, the Cougars got 13k p.atk (Blew my Apo Bow by trying to make it +6) and with Battle Rhapsody it doubles up.
Hi all, i just awoke yesterday, and i'm kinda lost here, trying to readapt to this "new" class.
I read this topic, but something seems to scape my knowings; it's the "fire and forget" thingy. I can't find any button like that, so i'm not sure if it's right under my nose or i'm just being stupid and it's just an expression to "fire button and forget 'till mob is dead". Anyways, any heads up is really appreciated.
Hi all, i just awoke yesterday, and i'm kinda lost here, trying to readapt to this "new" class.
I read this topic, but something seems to scape my knowings; it's the "fire and forget" thingy. I can't find any button like that, so i'm not sure if it's right under my nose or i'm just being stupid and it's just an expression to "fire button and forget 'till mob is dead". Anyways, any heads up is really appreciated.
That's when you are in a harnak / soa party and you let your pets attack a group of mobs, while they are on protect master mode, they will attack till all mobs are dead. Also works pretty well in Swamp since you can't collect drops fast enough while your cougars kill everything. It's not a certain skill or anything.
Or under zaken transformation + a decent bow + that iss enchanter skill that gives you +50% p.atk for 30s. :P
still too low for sure. 91 summoner with +9 str tat, +5 apoc bow w +str aug + zaken trans + rhapsody = only 25-30k. only way to get that high is final form.
I was wondering what kind of gear you guys are in? I was thinking of going heavy def with a bow for pvp, and light with a bow for pve, not sure though. Also any skills i should keep after i awaken? like smart cubic, over the new cubic(heard the new cubic is crap).
Yes you have a single target nuke, an aoe nuke, DOTS with specific debuffs on them, crowd control, recharge, and summons with aggression, aoe stun, jump ( aoe rush + slow), drains, aoes, and skills focused solely on the survival of you and your summons. You have the option to be lazy, but you can save the party and your self from a bad situation and have a lot to offer in pvp... you just have the option to be lazy.
NCSoft has definitely been a bit smarter about how to implement debuffs and make them more useful than before but it still doesn't make them much more interactive than Necros were years ago, which is... not really much in a group or solo setting.
The fact that you can do this or that doesn't necessarily mean it's even worth the brain cells to bother doing it. Cause being 10% more effective in a high level party really doesn't account for much, TBQH...
That being said I like the new design of the Summoner class, but I could never play with it because it requires a level of micromanaging that is makes it more annoying to play one character than to triple box 3.