The point is, this is a temporary situation, due to an event badly planned + the bad design of the mentor system. And it would still be ok if they just turned the god**** event off, while ip restriction, would stop us from playing with our couples/families/friends at home completely, as well as many ppl that play from net cafes and so on, permanently.
put 2 accounts limit per ip,all this thing with server full is @#$%@#$%
at least put it on prime timesYour "solution" would have only a minor affect on the botters because it's quite easy to utilize proxy servers for what they are doing. They are clearly not using the game client as there are litterly hundreds to maybe a couple thousand of them sitting around afk on talking Island.
Your "solution" on the other hand will break anyone that plays in a cyber cafe, shares a connection with roommates, lives in a dorm, lives in an apartment complex, or any hundred of other situations.
On top of the blocking of innocents your "solution" will require massive amount of backend work to implement the required management system. The backend system would also increase their costs as they will be forced to either add more hardware or reduce available hardware for the current servers.
Overall your "solution" is a terrible idea and a much better one would be to stop the event. While forcing people to stay logged in increases income for ncsoft in korea it's a terrible idea for ncwest and their F2P game. Upper management needs to carefully reconsider their standard policy of encouraging people to stay logged in (at least for ncwest).
block new account creation on servers like Naia and then fix the event by making the lvl to equip the ageathon at least C grade (40).. o and while we're at it make it so that mentor/mentee works for both regardless if the one or the other is online..
yes I will take that big pink elephant that's standing in the middle of the room too :D
I agree fully with the reasoning of Tool of Society here.
The problem ISN'T legitimite players trying to play the game, it's bots exploiting the game to the point the legitimate players, or well let's rephrase that, to the point that us "HUMANS" can not actually play the game anymore.
This must be the closest example of computers playing computer games without human interaction being involved, a simulation of how many virtual items can be created before the server falls over.
Just not restrict it to ip but to MAC adress.What mac address do you propose they use for this?
Personally I would raise the limit to at least 40. While it's true a human can easily reach 50 in a day this would at least slow down the ability of the botters to farm the current event. Creating a level 1 character to afk in town for two hours is a lot lot lot less involved then trying to bot to 40 just to sit afk for two hours.
If I had my way I'd also make it so mentors/mentees wouldn't have to stay logged in. The only reason it's that way is because in Korea they make more money the longer people stay logged in (pay by hour last I checked) and the cyber cafes love it. Frankly the money model for Korea is nearly opposite of what their model should be for here.
put 2 accounts limit per ip,all this thing with server full is @#$%@#$%
at least put it on prime times
you missed the "i don't care" option so i was forced to vote yes, never liked to dual box anyway.
1 account per PC i'd say not IP, cos cybercafes have many computers under the same IP.
you missed the "i don't care" option so i was forced to vote yes, never liked to dual box anyway.
1 account per PC i'd say not IP, cos cybercafes have many computers under the same IP.That still won't affect the real problem which are the crapton of botters.
That still won't affect the real problem which are the crapton of botters.
You do know what a dualBOX means right?
boters still need to login you know?
If they can only login 1 account or 2 instead of 10 it will surely solve enough.
i mean it will stop this
such a wonderful event ... Naia thanks you
boters still need to login you know?
If they can only login 1 account or 2 instead of 10 it will surely solve enough.
i mean it will stop thisThe bots in your screenshot aren't even using the game client. So how do you propose to limit them to two accounts per computer?
PLease don't suggest something silly like MAC address limits because I've had ISPs that put their entire userbase behind a NAT. You wouldn't get anything from my IP other then maybe a mac address for my modem or router..
You need to look @ the bigger picture (Literally), there my friend is your problem.
One way is also not to buy Event items from lil fat male dwarfs with no clothes.
The bots in your screenshot aren't even using the game client. So how do you propose to limit them to two accounts per computer?
PLease don't suggest something silly like MAC address limits because I've had ISPs that put their entire userbase behind a NAT. You wouldn't get anything from my IP other then maybe a mac address for my modem or router..
Then why dont you try to go and log bot train on Innova? Everything can be done if there would be will in NC West.
Then why dont you try to go and log bot train on Innova? Everything can be done if there would be will in NC West.1. I am not a botter.
2. I have absolutely no motivation to do anything you request.
3. I imagine there are people already botting on the server.
4. Your post has little relevance to the discussion at hand.
1. I am not a botter.
2. I have absolutely no motivation to do anything you request.
3. I imagine there are people already botting on the server.
4. Your post has little relevance to the discussion at hand.
You really dont understand it, do you? Innova doesnt have problems to prevent people from multiboxing even despite all those fancy things you described. Yes there are also bots on Innova servers but there is a reason why there are so few of them and why they keep low profile. You will hardly find bot armies like there on Innova. So why they can and NC West cant provide such services? And dont give me some law lecture bullcrap about Frost here. Blizzard's protection against bots isnt any less agressive to players than Frost and still they can use it without legal problems.
You really dont understand it, do you? Innova doesnt have problems to prevent people from multiboxing even despite all those fancy things you described. Yes there are also bots on Innova servers but there is a reason why there are so few of them and why they keep low profile. You will hardly find bot armies like there on Innova. So why they can and NC West cant provide such services? And dont give me some law lecture bullcrap about Frost here. Blizzard's protection against bots isnt any less agressive to players than Frost and still they can use it without legal problems.I've never heard of that server and a quick google shows that it's a small European based company with a couple lineage 2 servers. A little bit more of google searching and I found plenty of information on how to bot on the servers. What seems to be going on is that the servers are too low population to cause much of a demand for bots or RMT. If they have an active GM team then it shouldn't be too hard for them to comb the server every couple days to ban the few people willing to bot. Hell if NCsoft had at least one active in game GM dedicated to just teleporting around to all the major bot points once every couple days you'd see a massive decrease in bots.
IT's funny you mention blizzard when their game has so many bots and exploits that there are bots on every server in most major cities advertising RMT by actually forming letters in the air with low level characters. The game is so broke cheaters can teleport and position themselves wherever they want. When I quit the game there were bots actually running under maps to harvest all the nodes.
Ip restriction is epic fail on school college or internat is maybe 50 ppls on same IP...
Rather do limit on event for lvl 61 to prevent this.
another situation is with GM's and bots... in ol mahum is one person with 10 bots and PKpet with atributed equip and +++ .... 14 days he is here with bots and gms do nothing ... why boting is legal on this server ? then lets all start bot and ruin official lineage scene ...
NCwest Greed money and let ppls to be crazy when cannot log due to ******ed bots maniacs ....
lets do new event each bot got BAN !!! if you hevnt ppls do .report system
.report on target > target must type .nxxx where xxx is random number with this system GMs can be still off and ppls on server can remove bots aswell like lazy GMs...
omg do something with this situation ......................................
I've never heard of that server and a quick google shows that it's a small European based company with a couple lineage 2 servers. A little bit more of google searching and I found plenty of information on how to bot on the servers. What seems to be going on is that the servers are too low population to cause much of a demand for bots or RMT. If they have an active GM team then it shouldn't be too hard for them to comb the server every couple days to ban the few people willing to bot. Hell if NCsoft had at least one active in game GM dedicated to just teleporting around to all the major bot points once every couple days you'd see a massive decrease in bots.
IT's funny you mention blizzard when their game has so many bots and exploits that there are bots on every server in most major cities advertising RMT by actually forming letters in the air with low level characters. The game is so broke cheaters can teleport and position themselves wherever they want. When I quit the game there were bots actually running under maps to harvest all the nodes.
Innova isnt server, Innova is company running official Russian and Europian Lineage 2 servers...And as much as I dont like their services, in question of cheat programs they are much ahead from NC West. If you think that characters shouting in cities for RMT is what botting is actually about then seriously lol. I would gladly accept RMT advertisiers in towns if I didnt have to fight botted lvl 95+ people with fully automated pvp scripts.
Innova isnt server, Innova is company running official Russian and Europian Lineage 2 servers...And as much as I dont like their services, in question of cheat programs they are much ahead from NC West. If you think that characters shouting in cities for RMT is what botting is actually about then seriously lol. I would gladly accept RMT advertisiers in towns if I didnt have to fight botted lvl 95+ people with fully automated pvp scripts.
Of course there should be 2 accounts per 1 ip with blockade for 1 client per 1 computer like on a lot of private servers has been to avoid dual boxing.
It is verry easy to distinguish players with community network (1 router for more than 2 users) so there wont be any complitaces with it.
Innova does this step to avoid overload their servers and they has to open second with GMT+1 ofc. Please dont write me like "go play Innova" becoue i wont go there surely :)
Or just dont make "Const online reward" events becoute there is no nessesary to do that to make online since GoD is f2p :) Server with 100% active players has 5500+ ppls online in rush hours and 2500+ ppls from 2AM to 6AM in GMT +1;
Innova isnt server, Innova is company running official Russian and Europian Lineage 2 servers...And as much as I dont like their services, in question of cheat programs they are much ahead from NC West. If you think that characters shouting in cities for RMT is what botting is actually about then seriously lol. I would gladly accept RMT advertisiers in towns if I didnt have to fight botted lvl 95+ people with fully automated pvp scripts.I specifically said Innova is a "small european based company". It's pretty apparent at this point that there is either a communication gap or you're pretending to not understand what I'm saying so you can avoid dealing with inconvenient facts. What's funny is you probably are fighting people using exploits as frost doesn't really seem to stop most in game exploits. It seems tailored to stopping bots logging in and that's about it. From what I had read bots running PVP scripts weren't very useful anymore because of NCsoft nerfing CP pot spam and such.
You need to restrict it to two accounts per MAC address. That's 2 accounts per COMPUTER, not per CONNECTION.
You cannot get the mac address of any computer behind most any modern day router. Last I knew in IPv4 you have to actually query the IP of the computer directly in order to get the MAC and in order to let that happen the router controlling the home/work network has to be setup to foward queries to specific computers and even then you're severely limited. As I stated earlier the result is you would only get the MAC address of the last router in the chain if the ISP even allows it to go that far. Any attempt at getting the client itself to report the MAC address would be easily by passable by the current bot makers. In the end it wouldn't even matter because the trouble makers aren't even using the game client to afk their bots in talking island.
Of course there should be 2 accounts per 1 ip with blockade for 1 client per 1 computer like on a lot of private servers has been to avoid dual boxing.
It is verry easy to distinguish players with community network (1 router for more than 2 users) so there wont be any complitaces with it.
Not without a little deductive work. The whole point of a NAT system is to keep outsiders from seeing individual machines and such. So all you would have is the knowledge that so many clients are connecting through such and such IP. You wouldn't know if the IP belonged to a large university or such without doing lookups which would take time. IN the end you would be back to square one which is either block more then one player per IP (insane/stupid) or work on a more proactive solution.
Innova does this step to avoid overload their servers and they has to open second with GMT+1 ofc. Please dont write me like "go play Innova" becoue i wont go there surely
Or just dont make "Const online reward" events becoute there is no nessesary to do that to make online since GoD is f2p Server with 100% active players has 5500+ ppls
online in rush hours and 2500+ ppls from 2AM to 6AM in GMT +1;
Do any of you people actually read the posts in this thread? The problem are the couple thousand level 1 characters sitting in talking island setup to abuse the event.
Those characters are being run by out of client bots which means your fix would only affect legit players and wouldn't even remotely come close to solving the problem.
The only true fix is a multistage process that ncwest is probably incapable of doing. First they need to give the event a level requirement of at least 40. Second they need to have a GM run through Talking island and the gludio low level areas a couple times a day to do mass bot bannings. Those two actions would go a long way to fixing the problem. YEs some botters will slip through but that would be a tiny fraction of what we have now.
Most private servers are too tiny for the bot makers to care about and so a simple change on the private server side can cause bots to be incompatible. ONce the server gets large enough for people to care the bot makers just make a quick option in their bot to get around the change. So once again it's the case of low demand is shielding some private servers from the botters. Innova's servers are just about as vulnerable but right now there's very little demand for the bot programers to crack frost thus there's not as big of a problem. If the INnova servers were anywhere near as popular as the NCsoft servers you'd see all the same things there too. It's a matter of supply and demand and right now there's very very little demand on the Innova servers in comaparison to the ncsoft servers. Also there's a matter that it seems like a lot of the major game functions are unavailable for free acounts on the INnova servers which further limits botters. While there is no doubt that frost is effective for script kiddies it's apparent that the real programmers have already figured out a way past it or are close to success (depending on what utility you're using). Some of those that have already cracked the system are keeping a tight lip on their method so as to allow them and their clans/friends to exploit the situation. Also most in game exploits apparently work it's just a matter of getting logged with a bot that is causing most of the issues.
Like I said earlier the biggest and baddest anti-cheat system in the mmo world (blizzard) has been completely and utterly compromised. Many said it would be impossible to beat Blizzard's system but there was a high enough demand that people became motivated to bypass the protection.
I paid 50 dollars per account when this was p2p. Those are my accounts and by god I can log them on whenever I want. The problem isnt old players plying multiple accounts, it's bots and farmers making new accounts and never logging off. Dont punish legit players, take care of the bot problem -_-
You cant blame the end user due to poor game/event design. Howerver unfortunate the current login situation is atm you have to expect this since l2 is Truley Free to Play atm. Once event is over hopefully those who have had problems logging in will now be able to. If these extra chars created during the event stay logged in to sell the event items well that could be an issue.
History provides many guidelines and hints of things to come. As it has been proven time and time again there is no need to limit access, the herd will thin naturally. You will be wishing this many are fighting to log on to the server and play along with the rest of us.
I specifically said Innova is a "small european based company". It's pretty apparent at this point that there is either a communication gap or you're pretending to not understand what I'm saying so you can avoid dealing with inconvenient facts. What's funny is you probably are fighting people using exploits as frost doesn't really seem to stop most in game exploits. It seems tailored to stopping bots logging in and that's about it. From what I had read bots running PVP scripts weren't very useful anymore because of NCsoft nerfing CP pot spam and such.
I agree there is communication gap but I can guarantee not on my side. Innova isnt small company at all. As I said its official provider of Lineage 2 in Europe and Russia and is running much more servers than NC West. And you are really funny with this "I found on google how to bot on Innova". Yes, there are people who found their way to bot on Innova but they are not rly many as its much harder than here and those keep this info to themselfs. So no, you wont google it. Even on zRanger forums you wouldnt probably find that info. CP pot spam isnt that big deal, big deal is that whole party auto attacks you in the second when you target their buffer, among other things. And I really dont know why you are behaving like there isnt any way to allow people logging only 2 boxes. Almost every private server does this and as I said EU/Russian retail servers also.
I agree there is communication gap but I can guarantee not on my side. Innova isnt small company at all. As I said its official provider of Lineage 2 in Europe and Russia and is running much more servers than NC West. And you are really funny with this "I found on google how to bot on Innova". Yes, there are people who found their way to bot on Innova but they are not rly many as its much harder than here and those keep this info to themselfs. So no, you wont google it. Even on zRanger forums you wouldnt probably find that info. CP pot spam isnt that big deal, big deal is that whole party auto attacks you in the second when you target their buffer, among other things. And I really dont know why you are behaving like there isnt any way to allow people logging only 2 boxes. Almost every private server does this and as I said EU/Russian retail servers also.There actually is quite a bit of information on how to bot on those servers. The Russian server in particular has been botted quite a bit by the Russian players. Innova is such a small company that doing a search on google doesn't even provide relevant information on the first page. You have to actually put Innova Lineage 2 to get any relevant responses. Any decently sized company would of worked google responses to put themselves at least on the first page. Near as I can find though Innova's greatest anti-bot feature is actually their GM team. An active GM team can generally be far more effective then any sort of automated system. Number of servers is irrelevant what is relevant is userbase and i haven't found hard data on that yet but it's looking to be much smaller per server than Ncsoft.
I've explained to you several times in this thread why it is not economically viable for ncsoft to limit people to two accounts per IP. Your response is basically to plug your ears and to scream "BUT PRIVATE SERVERS CAN". It's blatantly obvious that you have utterly little to no knowledge about or experience with networking or game development.
EDIT : I've clearly said time and time again that it's technically possible for ncsoft to limit IPs to two accounts per IP for regular users. Bots on the other hand can easily get around it..
EDIT 2 : Based on how NCwest has been managing this game it seems that there isn't actually a real development team for the N/A servers which means any sort of limiting factor would have to appear in the Korean version first. The aforementioned cybercafes and such insures that NCsoft Korea will never implement such a feature as it would completely destroy their userbase.
EDIT 3 : Innova obviously has a development team of some kind as they have modified the game to keep free players from utilizing several aspects of the game such as kama. I haven't read any information on them modifying the game to limit users per IP so I'm operating on the assumption that you're correct. Their website is atrocious though ugh..
hah, i bought 4 accounts when the game was p2p. i dont play all in the same time, i can barely dual box since the game eat more and more resources nowadays, also my brother is playing one of them under the same ip. how do you solve this? restrict the number of my l2 clients i play and still let bots play free because they arent using the game client and they also use lots of proxies?!
The problem isnt old players playing multiple accounts, it's bots and farmers making new accounts and never logging off. Dont punish legit players, take care of the bot problem
"2 acc per ip limit" - this solution will not solve the problem, since support dont even try to fight with bots.
Ppl use bots in PvP - support dont care
Bots farm in 80+ lvl location - support don care
Bots in top of battle duration list - support dont care
Ppl cant log on server coz of large number of bots - support dont care
Moreover, for increace namber of bots, they make new event "stay online to have benefits", i think all bots user should say "thank you, NCSoft, nice event"
I voted no, but only because of i think you didn't explain it right.
I don't think 2 acc. per ip it would be any solution, by the reasons many ppl here gave to you.
However, 2 acc. per pc it would be an improvement. But the actual problem here, it's like some players said it in this thread, GM's seems to be not worried about the botting problem. So even with 2 acc. per pc, it wouldn't be too different.
I bought 4 keys when L2 was still subscription based. this STUPID idea means I have to cancel 2 of my accounts because YOU WERE TOO LAME NOT TO PAY SUBSCRIPTION AT THE TIME?
IMO NC should start banning bots and actively prohibit the use ot ******** / zRanger in ANY WAY POSSIBLE. When those cheaters are gone there's enough room on the server for all LEGIT PLAYERS to normally logon and play without crashes
put 2 accounts limit per ip,all this thing with server full is @#$%@#$%
at least put it on prime times
no i paid for 5 accounts when it was p2p and i dont want to be able to only log 2 accounts especially cus i share internet with a guy who also plays l2 so he is boxin his buffer and im boxin mine
Its better to log off characters that are AFK. Jesus i've seen a lot of them in citys.
Force people to use the action house or whatever its name is and eliminate the privatestores.
They obviously want players logged in AFK for their records on population, the events clearly dictate their desire...
Keep Tersi’s Light Summoned to Receive Specter of Light Items
At all times while you are logged in, you can benefit from having the Tersi’s Light Agathion summoned. Not only will you get some important event items, but you will also affect the forces of light in the entire continent!
Over two hours, Tersi’s Light will give you an increasing amount of Specter of Light event items.
They obviously want players logged in AFK for their records on population, the events clearly dictate their desire...
The more players playing the event the better chances they will spend real money for in game items... wait a minute!That's because Ncsoft Korea makes more money the longer people stay logged in. The cybercafes also like it so over there it's a win win situation..
any people have been paying multiple accounts since 2004.
It's not fair for all those who put x2 x3 x4 x5 money on ncsoft to limit them by using 1-2 accounts.
Just because this is done on private servers doesn't mean it should be done here. If I want to load multiple clients and do different things with them, then I should be allowed to do what I please. The problem is that NCSoft can not implement a proper anti-hacking/botting software that actually solves said problem. But investing the time and the money to investigate what would solve the bot problem just doesn't seem financially worth it this late in the game.
NCSoft's bread and butter is and always will be its Korean market. The NA/Euro markets are limping on what appears to be it's last good leg. If NCSoft can pull a hat-trick from out of no where and suddenly make a huge dent in the ability to bot on its servers, then that is what will fix this game and this problem.
GET OVER IT. FFS if the server is full, spam login like everyone else. No matter the server, no matter the time, it doesn't take more than 3 min to get ingame. If you think I'm lying, type better.
But honestly, if you have a problem with boxing, it's because you can't do it. And if you can and don't, then **** or quit.
PA's is the only solution; stop QQing for things that just punish both sides. Older players would suffer either way...
Im sure a server or 2 is possibly otw. Although this won't fix much at all.
New players will have established characters by then..and I doubt they will offer free transfers at this point. (who knows).
The only solution in PA's. Why they refuse to do this shows how low budget they have gone. Obviously they would have to pick back up a company that handles such things again just to do this. Subscriptions are always handled by an outside company. As far as, what about CS then...? It's handled by their new CS system (in house; or some other company that specializes in handling f2p) which has already been established.
It's a shame really, MOST p2p that go f2p still have some kind of ViP system for older players or those willing to sub... This would give priority to logins.
And to think getting rid of Bots will fix it; means your obviously a new player...That will never change; regardless of how many times you see the motd in game... (Unless L2 has been handed over to a new crew then there is the slightest possibility it could happen.) Which would explain the ******ed amount of things that broke yesterday in patch. Even the port list was wrong... (names etc.)