I've made this topic also in Kamael area. Sorry for making 2d same topic but I wanted some discussion about this topic..
I read tons of topics around for GoD..
I have a new kamael in Bartz (almost 60 lvl) and what I really want to know is... Doombringers can still be a good DPS "pvp machine" after being awakened? Or maybe archers,daggers > DB
Destructor I read you have 97lvl DB in Korean servers, so I bet you participated in many pvps... I want to read your opinion about this...
Have you ever thought "**** archer is pretty pwnage now"? (for example)
Or you still can have tons of fun and "+1" with new DB after 85..
I used to play for many years in a private low rate (x2) server an archer...
I also played in the past DB..
So when I started here in GoD I had this dilemma "DB or archer?"
i dont know about kamaels exactly but in my opinion warriors are outclassed by archers and rogues. im lvling a dagger to be rogue and leaving my warrior till maybe someday they update him and make him as usefull and strong as other dd classes.
Thnx for your answer Snobb... So you played awakened warrior and you think thats its outclassed from Archers/Rogues? hmmm thats not good...
Hope I see some more answers on this :/
archers & mages are the top pvp dps chars atm, pve wariors have issues after lvl 95 due to lack of mobs they can kill fast compared to other classes which is an issue that will be fixed in a later patch but no idea when we will get that though..
use search as this question has been asked before in the last 4 months :) unless all topics from the GoD section got deleted when we went live with it then ok maybe not ^^"
Its fair this way, warrior wont do the same damage archer and wizard. why?
Simply warrior have more defense, therefore he can survive more time.
But I bet at raid bosses the dps (damage per second) is somewhat near among all DD classes.
Let's not forget kamael doombringer-tyr warrior has a big advantage over other tyr warrior races.
You can keep soul barrier as means to counter the m.def "nerf" the overall buffs got, but for that you can't learn giant barrier, but this is a skill used every so often and quite situational..
And your rush impact is the one that you can spam, unlike duelists/titans/tyrant's, this rush will help you greatly vs nukers the most who can teleport a lot now so you can always shorten ur range( due to 0 re-use on ur rush impact) which makes it easier to land most of your damage which is the problem most tyr warriors get, it's to land the most DMG in the shortest time, DBs can do that simply cause they can always enclose in to taarget, no matter what. And you have a shetload of HP to cover your ***.
And you have the final form, also with spamable rush. It gives a ton a status now, but needs to be used when ur CP is low coz of some reason the final form cuts ur max CP in half. On my summoner, from 2k p atk, i go to 10k p atk and now there's no more "BOW use" penalty, the atk speed remais untouched.
Just sayin that if you go kamael tyr warrior you won't be "underpowered" like players claim, that is for sure. But yea, archer is a beast too on crit dmg.
Last 2 answer were great.. especially the last one..
So I have not to change the rush impact skill after 85? So I can use it non stop?
Because I know that rush impact also changes by a new awaken skill...
Rush impact can be replaced by "jump" at 87. Being jump a great rush with slow effect and 5 secs re-use, it's great but if you feel confortable with rush impact, i advise to not trade until you are sure this new skill goes with your overall playstyle.
Jump description:
Attacks nearby enemies by jumping at them to reduce their Spd. Damage inflicted on an enemy is proportional to the amount of Force Energy consumed. Power 10,508. For 5 seconds decreases attack speed by 70% on the enemy. Overhit avalible. Critical Hit avalible.
Don't forget Soul Barrier too, if you intend to awaken as tyr warrior, first check your status with soul barrier, see re-use etc, what it offers, at 91 you can exchange it for giant barrier, till then it's an aditional buff other classes don't have (pretty much no other class/race has a buff that increases m def 2x that has few seconds re-use) and quite the good one, against the biggest DD around, feoh wizard.
I see... I prefer having mass non-stop stun rather than slow and 5sec reuse...
Yeap soul barrier is great benefit against mages... But giant barrier dont increase mdef by 2x? Its like a new UD?
I see... I prefer having mass non-stop stun rather than slow and 5sec reuse...
Yeap soul barrier is great benefit against mages... But giant barrier dont increase mdef by 2x? Its like a new UD?
GL landing stun from RI on awakened char ;)
If you pick a Tyrr Warrior class, note that you aren't picking the class for sheer damage. NCsoft messed up before giving certain warrior classes the damage capabilities close to that of archers and daggers with the near survivability of a tank with immobilizing skills and either reflects or more defensive capabilities later on. Too much.
Now they are what they are, a balance between offense and defense. Able to take hits but not like a tank, able to deal damage but not like a archer,dagger, wizard. Their perks are interuption and immobilization. Stuns, knockbacks, slows, disarm...
Their power in pvp comes from combos rather than skill spam alternating between immobilizing and damage, much like a Duelist/Grand Khavatari mixing playstyles with a warlord, and those who can't combo their skills well won't do well in pvp.
In mass pvp, for your analogy, you're essentially keeping your enemy in a headlock and kneeing them in the back while your friend smacks them in the head with a bat.
So if you rolled this class expecting to hit like a truck and take one too, you're mighty high my friends.
Nukers have the most DPS followed by archers, then daggers, then summoners, warriors, enchanters, tanks, healers.
Flip that list around and you're looking at survivability rankings.
healers > tanks > enchanters > warriors > summoners > daggers > archers > nukers.
lol, look at museum statistics for most DPS, at pve and pvp (on chronos, old server)
in pve, mages > warrior > archer > rogue > enchanter > summoner > tank > healer
in pvp, mages > rogue > warrior > archer > enchanter > summoner > tank healer
so dont lie to people
lol, look at museum statistics for most DPS, at pve and pvp (on chronos, old server)
in pve, mages > warrior > archer > rogue > enchanter > summoner > tank > healer
in pvp, mages > rogue > warrior > archer > enchanter > summoner > tank healer
so dont lie to people
Considering that for, I don't know, the past 7 years that duelist, GKs and titans had the capability to out damage every class before the whole awakening comcept. It's pretty believable. Then you have the majority of players playing certain classes because of, nukers (fear), rouges (dual blow, mirage, etc.), warriors (reasons explained above) over other classes such as tanks (mostly unnecessary until GOD) and summoners (mostly useless until GOD). Then you might come to a conclusion of why it's like that on Chronos a.k.a. old server. And not the case on Shilen, Magmeld and Bartz.
At the moment I have on Bartz a Berseker lvl 61, followed by a warcryer lvl 61...
So I think Im gonna stick with it till 85+ to test it by myself in pvps...
Hope Im gonna have some fun with warrior and this class dont make me to reroll to archer class..
Being a tyr warrior myself, coming from duelist (having also kept duelist spirit for the +pvp dmg), it's very hard to imagine tyr warrior being as bad as most people think it is.
Sure it's not top dog damage, but that is mainly cause tyr warrior isn't a 1 button class, we TW's have to know what we are doing, or we gonna suck.
Some random parties i had, in SOA as well as harnak 3, I am easily doing 10-13.000 dmg crits NORMAL auto attacking with a spear, so this means hitting atleast 5-6 targets at a time, on a 1.250 aspd rate (with the proper forces), combine that with the fact you can easily achieve 340 crit trough hawk cry, and you got yourself a pretty good damage dealers.
To add to that i am only using a mere +0 requiem stormer, not even apocalypse yet.
In pvp it is indeed about the interrupting and "annoying" of other classes, and let those big spike classes like archer, rogue, feoh's do the main killing damage, but that does not make us useless, far from it.
I read tons of topics around for GoD..
I have a new kamael in Bartz (almost 60 lvl) and what I really want to know is... Doombringers can still be a good DPS "pvp machine" after being awakened? Or maybe archers,daggers > DB
Destructor I read you have 97lvl DB in Korean servers, so I bet you participated in many pvps... I want to read your opinion about this...
Have you ever thought "**** archer is pretty pwnage now"? (for example)
Or you still can have tons of fun and "+1" with new DB after 85..
In PvP, archers and mage> daggers>warrior
Warrior have very low damage from skils, and this damage cant be strongly increased with Pattak (with D-gread gun you have 25% less damage in comperison with top R+4). I cant even amazing how stupind and blinde should be a person who testing skils, to not finde this.
Kamael warrior dont take "giant barier" - and with full buff have +100% MDef almost all time, an other fail in koreans developer (the same like healers in light armor, chanters with ritm... etc)
Tyrr warior - have less damage than destroyer\tyrant, less damage from skils than gladiator, weacker debuff than have Berserker(for example "lighting disarm" never landed on playrs and have reuse time ~2m").
Ahtes few week when GoD start in Korea, they have hot-fix which give for warrior skill "momentali kill monster if it have less than 20% HP", NCWest dont even anonced this update.
In pachnotes of Tauti (update which instaled on koreans life at 10.01.2012), they write "increace damage from phisical skils" but i still dont have any invormation, if skils become usefull or it is an other koreans-fail.
So if you want to play warrior you shoud realise that it will be very hard.
Considering that for, I don't know, the past 7 years that duelist, GKs and titans had the capability to out damage every class before the whole awakening comcept. It's pretty believable. Then you have the majority of players playing certain classes because of, nukers (fear), rouges (dual blow, mirage, etc.), warriors (reasons explained above) over other classes such as tanks (mostly unnecessary until GOD) and summoners (mostly useless until GOD). Then you might come to a conclusion of why it's like that on Chronos a.k.a. old server. And not the case on Shilen, Magmeld and Bartz.
you cant even consider the new servers, how many players have all set of boss jewels, how many players have good gear, +300 weapons and such? plus the amount of newbie players on those servers is pretty high. those statistics are pretty accurate for old servers, we have more (lets say) pro players from any class than the new servers have. what Kitoshin said is very true, also you dint consider that warrior skills right now have no element (afaik) until you reach certain lvl to enchant them, that would be a plus at high lvl but they will change this at next update, no element on skill, you get the weapon element. anyway, in pve you can solo (buffed) many things that the other classes cant
you cant even consider the new servers, how many players have all set of boss jewels, how many players have good gear, +300 weapons and such? plus the amount of newbie players on those servers is pretty high. those statistics are pretty accurate for old servers, we have more (lets say) pro players from any class than the new servers have. what Kitoshin said is very true, also you dint consider that warrior skills right now have no element (afaik) until you reach certain lvl to enchant them, that would be a plus at high lvl but they will change this at next update, no element on skill, you get the weapon element. anyway, in pve you can solo (buffed) many things that the other classes cant
Sure we can consider the new servers. A lot of top clans from years ago to a month ago play on the new servers because chronos has been for a good while, boring. Element. You do no extra damage to mobs since they have 300+ resistance and other players will have stacked resistance as well also every class can, and most will not take, element on their skills. Boss jewerly will help damage how? Critical damage? You're not a dagger class and I hope you wont pvp/pve by autoattacking. Stacked gear? Ok use your s80 while everyone else upgrades. You can solo better than whom? There are better classes for soloing like a summoner. And define solo? Boxed enchanter is not solo and why would you solo when group exp is the best way to exp? You mention pros but pro at what exactly? You don't have to be a pro to hit a few buttons to make your character do damage. Overall what is your point? We're taking about why warriors do less damage than squishy burst damage classes like archers, wizards and daggers. Heck even summoners are capable of burst damage comparable to a wizard if not better.
So from what I read I have 2 choices..
Reroll to archer and leave my 61lvl kamael
Or wait to see further updates if they gonna boost a little bit warriors dmg..
Destructor I read you have 97lvl DB in Korean servers, so I bet you participated in many pvps... I want to read your opinion about this...
Have you ever thought "**** archer is pretty pwnage now"? (for example)
Or you still can have tons of fun and "+1" with new DB after 85..
My answer is..
Had replied on anoher thread..:p
With experience of playing 97 Tyrr Warrior,, I dominate all classes except mages. Mages need better control to deal with and I have 50/50 chance win ratio. :D
Not able to win the rogue and archer with Tyr warrior? learn how to control..:o
Sure we can consider the new servers. A lot of top clans from years ago to a month ago play on the new servers because chronos has been for a good while, boring. Element. You do no extra damage to mobs since they have 300+ resistance and other players will have stacked resistance as well also every class can, and most will not take, element on their skills. Boss jewerly will help damage how? Critical damage? You're not a dagger class and I hope you wont pvp/pve by autoattacking. Stacked gear? Ok use your s80 while everyone else upgrades. You can solo better than whom? There are better classes for soloing like a summoner. And define solo? Boxed enchanter is not solo and why would you solo when group exp is the best way to exp? You mention pros but pro at what exactly? You don't have to be a pro to hit a few buttons to make your character do damage. Overall what is your point? We're taking about why warriors do less damage than squishy burst damage classes like archers, wizards and daggers. Heck even summoners are capable of burst damage comparable to a wizard if not better.
sure, the damage range might be so wide that my weapon with element does the same damage as one without element... ok man nice joke but this is not true, at least for my class which is not warrior. so, where did you get that 300 element resist mobs lol. only daggers benefit from boss jewels, ok man. i havent seen one summoner soloing soa (not the solo instance) but ive seen warrior doing it. like my brother said, like 90% of warriors have not the slightest idea how to play this class or use the skills. they can deal a lot of damage but this is not their main role, those people complaining are trying to play this class as pure damage dealers, like click/autoattack as before... big fail.
Archers and mages should have more dmg than warriors since they have less hp and defense learn to play and deal with it
no they should not
compensation for lower hp/def is range not the dmg ... atm they have range AND dmg
but to be honest I'm fine as Tyrr and I'm enjoying this class
i dunno why others found the class weak but it's not..vs archers it's a really easy work lf u ask about rogue he not even able to get down ur cp..the problem comes against mage which lf u get close to him hes dead..so a kamael warrior with soul barriers it's one of the best class race atm..
Ok... Hope raised after the last answers I got... Glad to hear that if u know how to play, or practise, you can kill archers/daggers and dont get pwned by them in any chance...
i dunno why others found the class weak but it's not..vs archers it's a really easy work lf u ask about rogue he not even able to get down ur cp..the problem comes against mage which lf u get close to him hes dead..so a kamael warrior with soul barriers it's one of the best class race atm..
lol good luck as wartag warrior gettin near a archer ready to pvp you before your cp is gone
archers in small scale pvp out class any class their damage is insane
can easily 2 hit mages
then again theres no reason to reroll archer if u enjoy playing warrior then play warrior
from what i have seen on korean vids melee's get the upper hand in pvp endgame and not mages/archers
ofcourse it will always look like archers/mages are top classes because they are over played but thus doesnt mean the other classes are bad
and playing something u dont enjoy isnt fun aswell
like i said play what u enjoy and go for it dont play something because its strong in pvp cus next patch meight **** it all up
lol good luck as wartag warrior gettin near a archer ready to pvp you before your cp is gone
archers in small scale pvp out class any class their damage is insane
can easily 2 hit mages
then again theres no reason to reroll archer if u enjoy playing warrior then play warrior
from what i have seen on korean vids melee's get the upper hand in pvp endgame and not mages/archers
ofcourse it will always look like archers/mages are top classes because they are over played but thus doesnt mean the other classes are bad
and playing something u dont enjoy isnt fun aswell
like i said play what u enjoy and go for it dont play something because its strong in pvp cus next patch meight **** it all up
Yeah thats what Im thinking also..
I can have fun with both "warrior" and "archer", I just already have Kamael which I prefer the most..
Imo all classes are balanced. It depends how you play what strategy you use and the gear you have.
This - to a lesser extent.
Most of the terrible opinions going around are based on people who tried classes at 85-86 and made opinions on them -- Those opinions are foolish.
Warrior is a class of chained skills. The class wins at pvp by out tempo'ing their opponent.
This class also benefits the most from an assisting enchanter, more so than any other pvp duo. Crippling strike + Armor Destruction == 1 shot on a crit to pretty much anything.
well sure mages and archers have lot more burst damage , still main problem I get with my tyrr is that in exping some party will better take you only after mages and archers are not available = less party until your friends all awake
its so much easier to find party with other class