Im really disappointed and angry cause i have lately experienced a change on possibilities that you have to get a +4 weapon.
Since 2005 i have done more weapons +4/+7 than i have failed on.
What i have to say is this: after lucky enchantment stones have appeared to the game I M DEFINITELY SURE that something is going on.
Since then i have braked on +4 attemp my vesper duals and after that 2 pairs of Requirem dual swords event.
You think that im so unlucky???
I DONT THINK SO!!!
Its just that our game developers want to play with our wallets once more. If this is true im really angry about it, cause something is smelling weird around here!!!
Because now guess what!!! You can get your lucky enchantment stone right from their store with your sweet euros.
But dont be fooled your possibilities will improve to 75% cause im sure that now are close to 60 or 65% to success. It seems to me that they have minimized the success rate on over enchanting and then they send you to the shop to buy a stone that will give you back the previous possibilities we had before luckystone appears.
Im really waiting for a Community Manager to answer me on this issue, cause i have many examples of in game friends, that have failed even with lucky stone on +4.
If this is another trick to get our money thank you, but i wont buy!!!
If you think that all your customers are no life brainless zombies sorry but im not.
anyhow, even of being chance 95/100 of success, you can still have 50 fails on a row before succeeding any attemp, that's part of the definition of probability. You might have had just a unlucky day...
it seems to me that from now on lucky will be only, the one with a big wallet...
use your brains a bit. Dont talk to me about lucky ********.
Spending $1000s might be THE option at the moment, but I'm sure most players are sane enough NOT to do this. Also, I have strong suspicions about the players who've made a +15 (or more) top-R (from the cash shop desitiny pack ) that those players are the ones whoo are botting lowbee chars to 43 and sell adena to finance their +15 (or more) weapons on their main char...
Aside from that... Yes, I've broken a lot of weapons/armors myself, but oddly enough I've also succeeded in +8 a couple of times. Surely enough it's always Korean Random bugging us.
And as said above... DO NO OE IF YOU CAN'T EFFORT IT!
You are wrong! On +4 they give more patt and matt and more damage on pvp. Are you jokeing me or what?
You know what SA is right? Then read his post again.
You are wrong! On +4 they give more patt and matt and more damage on pvp. Are you jokeing me or what?
Yes, +4 gives an extra bonus (for every weapon), but it isn't needed anymore to OE Rgrade duals to get the Special Ability on it.
Rgrade duals work with SoulCrystals aswell... +4 is just an extra bonus added to it...
Again, if you can't afford to lose your weapon OE-ing, DON'T...
People should be allowed on the Internet only with some lessons of probability and statistics. Cuz threads like those show how low is level of education in those subjects.
Have a common sense. How many players play on 1 server and how many players have +15 weapon? From 3k players maybe 50 players have +15. This is not 2/3 enchant rate.
Have a common sense. How many players play on 1 server and how many players have +15 weapon? From 3k players maybe 50 players have +15. This is not 2/3 enchant rate.
you want to say, that everyone on server has spare 2k $ to buy ~50 destruction EWR, and only few guys got +15? wow, what server is that? some L2 stars 5k $ buy-in?
People should be allowed on the Internet only with some lessons of probability and statistics. Cuz threads like those show how low is level of education in those subjects.
So why dont you give us some lessons then, you, Lord of Wisdom?
Cause if you dont, you better close your mouth, chew a gum and stop spamming nonsense on my thread. Thank you.
you want to say, that everyone on server has spare 2k $ to buy ~50 destruction EWR, and only few guys got +15? wow, what server is that? some L2 stars 5k $ buy-in?
you miss my point. i wanted to say that there is not 2/3 enchant rate becayse only view people have +15 from 3k players.
So why dont you give us some lessons then, you, Lord of Wisdom?
Cause if you dont you better close your mouth chew a gum and stop spamming nonsence on my thread. Thank you.
3 years ago i liked to craft a/s grade stuff to sell them. 20 a/s grade armors crafted w/o fail during 3 days period. +600kk profit after selling. i thought now i am a man, going to craft 3 drac bows in a row. poof 600kk gone.
OR
half year ago i was making atribute on my dynasty +7 bow. everything was going fine until i reached 280 atr. then putting 5-10 crystals in a row, all resulting in fails. after 30 fails, which cost me ~300kk i just left running with 280atr.
OR
spent ~300kk puting 2000 life stones on gun to get reflect dmg augment with no result, while 1 my friend got after ~800 tries and clan leader after 1300.
there was many guys in clan which were trying to make duals +4 braking them 3,4,5 times in a row pre-GoD
korean random is cruel, but i never gone to forum to cry that i am unlucky. i keep trying or find other ways to sink my money.
I think you have all missed my point in this thread.
Never mind.;)
No I think everyone has gotten your point; you hit an unlucky streak and so obviously there is conspiracy on NCSoft's part.
You hit an unlucky streak it happens deal with it; I think since 2006 I'm sitting at about 85% rate of blowing my gear up going to +4...ZOMG NCSOft has been conspiring against me since then to get me to buy Lucky Enchant Stones when they went F2P.
So why dont you give us some lessons then, you, Lord of Wisdom?
Cause if you dont, you better close your mouth, chew a gum and stop spamming nonsense on my thread. Thank you.
Lesson one, 0.000000000000000001% chance is still a chance, even with that chance you might fail several attemps in row, yea probability of that is very low and actually probability of that might be called impossible, but it might happen, bad luck :)
Lesson two, with the number of attempts you did you have absolutely no way of guessing the % chance of fail or success. You cant say 2/3 is false, you cant say its true and you definitely cant say its 1.6/3 as you did.
I have also observed the same problem as OP with dual weapons. I suspect that the 2/3 success rate for R-grade duals is history. Not that it was ever true. The rate always changed with the degree of enchantment attempted (L2 labs proved it with tests on S-grade fighter/mage weapons and I think on armor too). Anyway, getting a fighter weapon to +4 was always easy. I failed +4 on R-grade dual swords/bunts 5 times (not in a row though). I do suspect that chances has been altered and NC has simply "forgotten" to say so.
I have another suspicion that needs to be tested: bound and normal/blessed items don't have the same chances of success. I hope that L2 labs may try something like that.
I have noticed a decline the enchanting chance. I wasted 3 blessed enchant S scrolls and finally a regular scroll with one of those +10% stones from the mentor manager to try to get a set of Icarus duals to +4. The OP is slightly more angry than me at his unsuccessful attempts. While his theories about NCSoft trying to get more money from it's players by offering items that promise a lot but never deliver sounds outlandish, but let's try to keep the possibility that there is something amiss. I like to introduce the possibility that there might be a hacker messing with the game's source code. What with the rise of accounts being hacked, the NPC server and Shots lagging (the event might not be the source of the problem, we shall see after the downtime), and mysterious unprompted teleporting from one place to another (ask around, it's happening), it is quite possible. Another evidence that there might be a hacker? If we acknowledge that the event is the source of the shot lag, why is NCSoft applying a patch and monitoring it after removing all the event items after the server maintanence? Just keep this thought in mind if everything is not fixed when we can log back in. thanks :)
yes I m the hacker, I did a +9 AS with the event EWS on Monday, no stones and obviously no blessed/destruction EWS :S
it's pure dumb luck people, get over it ... and the 66% probability is server wide. The moment you click enchant 20 out of 30 people that also click enchant will succeed. The other 9 will fail. The last 1 will fail and cry about it.
Im really disappointed and angry cause i have lately experienced a change on possibilities that you have to get a +4 weapon.
Since 2005 i have done more weapons +4/+7 than i have failed on.
What i have to say is this: after lucky enchantment stones have appeared to the game I M DEFINITELY SURE that something is going on.
Since then i have braked on +4 attemp my vesper duals and after that 2 pairs of Requirem dual swords event.
You think that im so unlucky???
I DONT THINK SO!!!
Its just that our game developers want to play with our wallets once more. If this is true im really angry about it, cause something is smelling weird around here!!!
Because now guess what!!! You can get your lucky enchantment stone right from their store with your sweet euros.
But dont be fooled your possibilities will improve to 75% cause im sure that now are close to 60 or 65% to success. It seems to me that they have minimized the success rate on over enchanting and then they send you to the shop to buy a stone that will give you back the previous possibilities we had before luckystone appears.
Im really waiting for a Community Manager to answer me on this issue, cause i have many examples of in game friends, that have failed even with lucky stone on +4.
If this is another trick to get our money thank you, but i wont buy!!!
If you think that all your customers are no life brainless zombies sorry but im not.
Thank you for your concern.
You just had bad luck, if the chance was 90% (example) u should know that still having a chance of fail.
PS: Good luck to the next time ;d
If you feel bad for breaking a few pixels, at +4, imagine how you'd feel to lose a 400€ pot on Hold'em NL, with only 1 card left to come ( the river ), and I had 96% chance of winning ;)
Not that it was ever true. The rate always changed with the degree of enchantment attempted (L2 labs proved it with tests on S-grade fighter/mage weapons and I think on armor too). Anyway, getting a fighter weapon to +4 was always easy. I failed +4 on R-grade dual swords/bunts 5 times (not in a row though). I do suspect that chances has been altered and NC has simply "forgotten" to say so.
Actually, pre-GoD (if you can trust the NCLabs experiments, which I tend to do), the chances were the same for +4 to +15, and then they became half of what they were. +4 to +15 for melee/bow was around 66%, and for mage weapons was 40%. Armors on the other hand only had the advertised OE chance for +4 (66%), after that the chance was half of that (so going for +6 means doing a 66% OE, then a 30% OE and then another 30% OE).
Again, that's according to the NCLabs testing and the chances are good that everything changed with GoD. And I can confirm that going +4 on duals is hard (and when I actually made +4 requiem duals, I saw that it was not worth it at all lol, thank god I managed to sell them).
People should be allowed on the Internet only with some lessons of probability and statistics. Cuz threads like those show how low is level of education in those subjects.
+1
If crafts have a 60% chance, HOW THE HELL DO I KEEP FAILING THEM OMG?!?!!??!?!!?!? NC WANTS MY MONEY OUT OF MY WALLET OR SOMETHING SCAM FAIL OMG NCSOFT SCREW ME OMG I WRITE IN COLORED CAPS OMGOMGOGMOM!!!
Seriously ... if you get angry about failing enchants then just don't do it ... it's that easy actually!
Can we please have a "Conspiracy" section on the forum, where everyone can gather and talk about aliens, 9/11 and NC conspiring against their +3 weapons? Thank you!
Lesson one, 0.000000000000000001% chance is still a chance, even with that chance you might fail several attemps in row, yea probability of that is very low and actually probability of that might be called impossible, but it might happen, bad luck :)
Lesson two, with the number of attempts you did you have absolutely no way of guessing the % chance of fail or success. You cant say 2/3 is false, you cant say its true and you definitely cant say its 1.6/3 as you did.
More lessons when you get those :)
When you fail 3 attemps in a row where are the Maths???:rolleyes::eek:
When you fail 3 attemps in a row where are the Maths???:rolleyes::eek:
M8 just relax. You are wrong! 30 % doesnt mean that in the 3 time the weapon wll be + 4. ITS 30% EVERYTIME YOU USE AN ENCHANT . Listen to us and after server is up go and enchant more. If you dont suicide. Cause you are really mad right now . hoho.
you could fail 100x in a row with NC random.. everytime you click on a skill/enchant scroll the dice rolls anew with no history of previous attempts so stop try add more logic to it then there really is..
Hm.......what should i say....once broke my dagger with mortal strike from +12 to +13 after i came home totally drunk.
I suggest dont do anything in this game you cant afford ^^
And: i remember when server were shut down every noon.....with countdown.
Some seconds before server were shut down you enchanted. Fail--you stayed in game, with the rollback you got then items were in your inventory again. Sucess, you loged out to save the char.
What i realize is: at wedneday they have a countdown again. And maybe there are some other exploits you simply dont know ^^
I want to thank you all for your replies. I understood everything you said and I agree with you all. I know that PC games are based on mathematics and i know what random means.
I also know that you must be fool to believe that NCSoft developers just woke up one morning and said to each other: Well, considering the global economical crissis that our customers are into, lets give them a free to pay online game!!! They will love us!!!
I Wish you good luck on Nc Store Over-enchantment.;)
Case closed.
CU around._Take care._:)
P.S.: I'm still looking for a Forum Administrator answer on this : On what percentance a lucky enchantment stone applies(adds) its +10% success rate?
Have a nice day.
Well if you want unlucky, here's one i did yesterday:
out of 22 immortal boots, none of them went to +6.
Now let's do the math, 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 gives me roughly 28% chance to get +6.
Out of 22 tries, i got none... According to "average" luck i should have about 7. The point is, it's never average luck when it comes to ncsoft. Nor indeed is it ever good luck.
This isn't the first or 2nd (or third) time NCSOFT's **** over enchanting system has ****** me in the ***.
This post is useless. You can't prove nothing by saying you failed some weapons. You would have to break more than 1000 weapons from +4 to +9 to prove your point and still there would be doubts. I don't think NCSoft would do this intentionally so you can buy from them. Yes if I have TOP R grade weapon and i have made it +10 with blessed scrolls, I would buy a destruction scroll to enchant it. Can you imagine going back to +0 all the time you would have lost? So buying that pack for 30 euros is nothing compared to the time and effort doing it again +10. Get your facts straight before posting. I failed 2 db to +4 and I didn't come here crying about it its chances. Even if its 90% success rate you still fail. Same way you fail on skill enchantment when its 95% ROFL or success on 4% success rate.
you could fail 100x in a row with NC random.. everytime you click on a skill/enchant scroll the dice rolls anew with no history of previous attempts
This is what so many people do not understand. Previous results do not matter. At all. It's the same chance every time. Plus that the chances for mage weapons and armor are lower than advertised, if they have not changed it with the GoD update.
This is what so many people do not understand. Previous results do not matter. At all. It's the same chance every time. Plus that the chances for mage weapons and armor are lower than advertised, if they have not changed it with the GoD update.
With ncsoft it seems to happen too many times to be called "random", really...
Even with a 1% chance of failing you can trust NCSOFT that it will happen to you on one of your first goes
Have a common sense. How many players play on 1 server and how many players have +15 weapon? From 3k players maybe 50 players have +15. This is not 2/3 enchant rate.
LOL. OH MY GOD LOL. Stupidity is freaking rampant on this forum. From the same people asking why the server is down every Wednesday with their broken English to posts like this. Please do yourself a favour and go back to elementary school.
Dear Friends
As an IT i have to say that possibilities can be simple and complicated also, it is not the time or the place to deploy formulas so lets focus to pure logic through your experience in game. Does server latency (lag) affects over enchantment? why not?
It appears that lag affects spoil, soulshots, skill skipping, crafting etc. it has to do with timeouts on server transactions and so. If it wasn't so why rates are higher just after the Wednesday maintenance at light server?
It would be convenient if the enchanting interface window after counting the possibilities adding lucky stones or not to inform you about the possibility of success.
Then a voting system (dice,number generator etc) should decide the result. As example if we agree that possibility is 2/3 for success a rolling dice result of 3+ should result to success while 1 and 2 is failure. If you add lucky stone to increase success possibility then success is at 2+ dice roll. There are plenty of option able solutions if you want to implement this within the meaning of honesty.
The results show that many ppl have complaints at least on over enchanting and i believe that possibility is affected by server's condition
I can attest to being one of the "unlucky ones". I have successfully gone +4 on ONE item (the current S Duals I use) It got so bad one time I blew 7 in a row, after failing 10+ crafts for the individual swords. That being said, I never attempted to go +4 on anything without have a backup item to fall on.
On talks of probability....you guys (and gals) are funny. If something has a 6x% chance to succeed, then that means you have a 6x% on that one time, and that same percent chance every single time. Your rate does not get better the more you try, or get worse . Every time you click enchant, the randomizer rolls a yes or no. This is not progressive, when the more you try, the better the payout. The chances are just the same everytime.
NEVER oe items/skill/apply att crystals when server lags.
If you are stuborn, or you need to oe one multiple items when the server lags try this:
1 For item enchant-you fail something at+4 or more =>enchant some lol D grade up to +3 and afterwards try to enchant the important stuff(doesn`t need to be D grade, try it whis cheap stuff).
2 If you have something rly important(like a epic jewl) restart after first fail and do step 1.
3. If you apply att cry/stone and you fail 4-5 times+ in a row. Stop, port to another city, restart and try again. Seems you fail a lot when server lags, so better w8.
4. If you plan to craft multiple items and the first one fails. Stop, restart game, maybe try another crafter. From my exp, if the first one fails better try another time, they will usualy all fail afterwards.
I have noticed a lot of strange things regarding chances in this game. The most obious thing is the skill enchant succes rate.
I understand failing at 95% succes rate.However, if the server is not item lagging, go to nice unpopulated space, open the skill enchant window, position the window so that the confirmation box sits right on the enchant button(so you don`t have to move the mouse cursor) and clik like a maniac. Like this i used to get skills to 15+ whis 1,2 bogs max.However if the server lags i coud never go more then +6+7 by doing this. When it lags i had to clik very slow, and i had a lot more fails then in the mornings.
Duno if this is a bug or not, and i never got the chance to test it here.
Actually, pre-GoD (if you can trust the NCLabs experiments, which I tend to do), the chances were the same for +4 to +15, and then they became half of what they were. +4 to +15 for melee/bow was around 66%, and for mage weapons was 40%. Armors on the other hand only had the advertised OE chance for +4 (66%), after that the chance was half of that (so going for +6 means doing a 66% OE, then a 30% OE and then another 30% OE).
That math perfectly aligns with my personal experience. It used to be debated that armor had the same chance of OEing as weapons, but with the destruction scrolls, it's confirmed that getting armor to +6 is on par with getting a weapon to +15. Back in the day, I used to enchant only bows (D and C grade, at the time), because I found those to give me the best returns.
That said, I don't entirely trust NCsoft's math, because there have been times where I'd blow up four weapons in a row going to +4. That kind of failure just doesn't instill much confidence. But then again, in another MMO I play (Asheron's Call), I've blown up two weapons in the past that had a 99% chance of success.
Chance can be a real pain sometimes.
As others have mentioned, just because there is a 66% chance of success on an enchant, it doesn't mean the chance of going from +0 to +16 is 66%. There's a 66% chance on each enchant, which means that everytime you push that enchant button, there's a 33% chance of failure. It's that simple. In reality, those are not good chances, but sometimes failure can be avoided with extreme luck (I enchanted two +16 C in a single week a couple years ago... haven't been able to get over +10 since).
Once failed 5 times in a row on the same skill to OE it to +1. It's 97% chance to succeed... statistical chance of this happening: 0.000243%
Back in Interlude, failed 7 DC glove crafts in a row. Statistical chance of this happening: 0.16384%
Well I guess what I'm trying to say that you just got a stream of bad luck and nothing more. The few fails you had proves nothing, literally nothing. Btw I can easily counter your claims as:
+4 requiem dual daggers, duals and cutter. 1 cutter failed going +4. So according to your logic NCsoft wants you to spend money but NCsoft doesn't want me to spend money?
I can cofirm it's +15 as it is one of my clan members. And yes, he has bought packages to get it +15. This is not a secret.
To be honest, Retail has become something worse then a private server. The service is worse, the lag is terrible, the support is terrible, they just ignore players and forum, it requires a lot of real money to compete with others, every new package will be more and more game changing, they got the worst decisions ever such as transfer from chronos/naia to magmeld and I can go on like this.
I'm an item maller my self as well. I've spend over 300 euro in the first month alone. The only thing that is keeping me in this game is the fact I'm leader of one of Magmeld's top clans. However, due to transfer everythin got messed up in Magmeld. Some of my members have quit, some are about to quit and all the others want to move on with the clan to another game/private server.
I will not spend a single euro on this game anymore, not in a lifetime. No matter how much you spend, they will keep adding new weapons and items which you "must buy" from time to time to compete with others.
It's mere a fact they made this game a money sink and they will empty your wallets up to the point where Blade & soul releases. They will offer their awesome customer service there, make it a pay 2 play game yet have their ***** gold selling websites on the internet as well as if we don't know all those **** gold selling websites belong to the companies and best of all the cycle will just reach it's point again just like it did with Lineage, blade & soul will become free to play at a certain time and they will make it a money sink again.
I don't think Lineage is going to last long, it's an open server without someone controlling or caring for it.
My whole clan is looking for an exit right now. We will see how things in Magmeld work out for the upcomming month. If it gets destroyed too much we will all together move to a private server.
I'm sure private servers already got their fame back the way ncsoft fked every single player.
And to be on topic, I broke many items to +4, it's like a ***** joke.
I will say only one thing, ncsoft wont get a single euro out of my pocket anymore. Whether they are named Lineage, Lineage eternal or Blade & soul.
Tera is way more awesome then blade & soul anyway, serves you right for your project to be stolen ;)
and eternal is just a ***** rip off from diablo too.
the best part is my game account now just will get "suddenly hacked" just like many players and my forum account will most likely be banned since I had a warning already. my warning was for saying the **** word in a topic to keep **** clean on the forums, they got a whole community raging and they make the word '****' a big trouble lol.
I can smell justice all over the forums and staff :)
Take the next quote in Magmeld's facebook page for example
Was my last day in Magmeld. Too many bugs and too ****** support/wrong servertimes. I hope you all will have more fun than me and to see some of you in Guild Wars 2. And good luck to you and your clan too, -REAL NAME- AKA Softy ;)
Why does my ******* clan need to suffer because of such stupid actions? it's a **** RETAIL server yet ANY private server outbeats them in any way. Whether it be server stability or staff decisions/communication with community.
Why does anyone in first place need to suffer because of such stupid decisions.
they make a NEW server "COMPLETELY NEW" and transfer chronos/naia chars, dafuq is that about?
it's so clear what they were thinking. let's have people spend money on becomming the best clan in their server by adding runes. now, let's add R grade scrolls so they can compete more. now let's transfer 2 servers to 1. now every old player won't give up on his char because he has spend a lot/reached a lot already. he will now need to spend even more to compete with chronos/naia
roflmfao that was so **** hard to figure.
and yes, I am mad. so before cool kids ask u mad bro? y I am kido.
our clan has spend over 10k euro in the first month, I bet every top clan on magmeld has atleast spend 10k euro in the first month, yet we get treated like trash.
I can cofirm it's +15 as it is one of my clan members. And yes, he has bought packages to get it +15. This is not a secret.
To be honest, Retail has become something worse then a private server. The service is worse, the lag is terrible, the support is terrible, they just ignore players and forum, it requires a lot of real money to compete with others, every new package will be more and more game changing, they got the worst decisions ever such as transfer from chronos/naia to magmeld and I can go on like this.
I'm an item maller my self as well. I've spend over 300 euro in the first month alone. The only thing that is keeping me in this game is the fact I'm leader of one of Magmeld's top clans. However, due to transfer everythin got messed up in Magmeld. Some of my members have quit, some are about to quit and all the others want to move on with the clan to another game/private server.
I will not spend a single euro on this game anymore, not in a lifetime. No matter how much you spend, they will keep adding new weapons and items which you "must buy" from time to time to compete with others.
It's mere a fact they made this game a money sink and they will empty your wallets up to the point where Blade & soul releases. They will offer their awesome customer service there, make it a pay 2 play game yet have their ***** gold selling websites on the internet as well as if we don't know all those **** gold selling websites belong to the companies and best of all the cycle will just reach it's point again just like it did with Lineage, blade & soul will become free to play at a certain time and they will make it a money sink again.
I don't think Lineage is going to last long, it's an open server without someone controlling or caring for it.
My whole clan is looking for an exit right now. We will see how things in Magmeld work out for the upcomming month. If it gets destroyed too much we will all together move to a private server.
I'm sure private servers already got their fame back the way ncsoft fked every single player.
And to be on topic, I broke many items to +4, it's like a ***** joke.
I will say only one thing, ncsoft wont get a single euro out of my pocket anymore. Whether they are named Lineage, Lineage eternal or Blade & soul.
Tera is way more awesome then blade & soul anyway, serves you right for your project to be stolen ;)
and eternal is just a ***** rip off from diablo too.
the best part is my game account now just will get "suddenly hacked" just like many players and my forum account will most likely be banned since I had a warning already.
I can smell justice all over the forums and staff :)
man i just check ur server now, its preety good, ppl selling tezza, qa and zaken already, and ur clannies with +15 weapon and many ppl with twilight set, u are almost the same as chronos but u dont have parties on party matching.
Well if you want unlucky, here's one i did yesterday:
out of 22 immortal boots, none of them went to +6.
Now let's do the math, 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 gives me roughly 28% chance to get +6.
Out of 22 tries, i got none... According to "average" luck i should have about 7. The point is, it's never average luck when it comes to ncsoft. Nor indeed is it ever good luck.
This isn't the first or 2nd (or third) time NCSOFT's **** over enchanting system has ****** me in the ***.
Good day!
First of all your math is wrong. For armors there's different enchant formula:
+10 is maximum OE for armors. This puts you on 3% mark on succeeding to make +6 on armor :) Odds above may not be completely accurate because I can't remember correctly but I know that when OEing armor odds gets lower and lower with every enchant you put.
I can attest to being one of the "unlucky ones". I have successfully gone +4 on ONE item (the current S Duals I use) It got so bad one time I blew 7 in a row, after failing 10+ crafts for the individual swords. That being said, I never attempted to go +4 on anything without have a backup item to fall on.
On talks of probability....you guys (and gals) are funny. If something has a 6x% chance to succeed, then that means you have a 6x% on that one time, and that same percent chance every single time. Your rate does not get better the more you try, or get worse . Every time you click enchant, the randomizer rolls a yes or no. This is not progressive, when the more you try, the better the payout. The chances are just the same everytime.
Yeah, and that being said means that you can go your whole L2 life without successfully enchanting 1 single item...
That doesn't stop us being ****** off that we're the ones who's having all the bad luck when it's (supposed) to be in our favour.
+10 is maximum OE for armors. This puts you on 3% mark on succeeding to make +6 on armor :) Odds above may not be completely accurate because I can't remember correctly but I know that when OEing armor odds gets lower and lower with every enchant you put.
man i just check ur server now, its preety good, ppl selling tezza, qa and zaken already, and ur clannies with +15 weapon and many ppl with twilight set, u are almost the same as chronos but u dont have parties on party matching.
I have faith in my clan, we will regain status with time again. But this won't get my members back who left nor will it stop others from doing so.
I actually have members who left their toons on Chronos and Naia to have a new start. Those who transfered from Chronos/Naia to Magmeld had a new start with everything they build up in the past 7 years.
Noone was selling tezza, qa and zaken "already" it popped up after the transfers. Also, they just outbought a lot of items making the price 3, 4 times if not more the worth of what it was. Economy is in their hands now.
It's just sad to see we put effort, time and money in things like a new server and they just screw it up for their own benefits. Since the opening of Magmeld I haven't even slept normaly just once because of my clan and this is what I get in return? A cold "you shouldn't have put this much effort, time, money and care in this game"?
All-in-all it's a huge disrespect from their side, yet they can't even be arsed to give a form of answer. Look at how terrible the forums are with GoD's opening, it's like we're on same basement kid's forum. I don't even bother with most topics, but things are getting out of hand right now and clearly they care more about money then anything else. One should atleast care about his reputation.
On talks of probability....you guys (and gals) are funny. If something has a 6x% chance to succeed, then that means you have a 6x% on that one time, and that same percent chance every single time. Your rate does not get better the more you try, or get worse . Every time you click enchant, the randomizer rolls a yes or no. This is not progressive, when the more you try, the better the payout. The chances are just the same everytime.
When some1 talks on probabilities people use statistics. Here's an example for you.
You are correct that in weapons case you have 70%(it's 70 actually up to +15) chance of OEing every time. However what you do not realize that it's just 1 time luck and you keep ignoring overall luck you needed to make it to the point you made.
For example to make it from +3 to +4 you have 70% chance. From +4 to +5 you have same 70% chance and so on but...
but the chance that you will make it from +3 to +5 is only 49%.
Chance that you will make it from +3 to +6 is only 34%
Chance that you will make it from +3 to +7 is only 24%
and the reason chance is always getting lower the more you go is the fact that with every new try you put your self in a risk. So to get overall chance to make an item +7 you need to multiple the chance of success by chance of success to the next level. In this case chance of success is 70% or 0.7 so what we do is we multiply
Going from +3 to +4 you take only one chance of 0.7*100 so it's 70%
Going from +3 to +5 you take 2 chances of 0.7 so it's (0.7*0.7)*100 so it's only 49%
and so on.
That's what actually happens when people talk about chances of success. We talk about overall chance not 1 time chance.
I'm pointed at your math being wrong not because calculation was wrong but because you used wrong probabilities
instead of using 2/3*2/3*2/3 you had to use 2/3*1/3*1/6 to get correct answer of making an item to +6.
P.S. I sort of remember probabilities because very smart people who had their hands on official files, studied em and told the 'real statistical formulas used by server side. Yes description say it's 2/3 chance to succeed but it's only partly true.
Im really disappointed and angry cause i have lately experienced a change on possibilities that you have to get a +4 weapon.
Since 2005 i have done more weapons +4/+7 than i have failed on.
What i have to say is this: after lucky enchantment stones have appeared to the game I M DEFINITELY SURE that something is going on.
Since then i have braked on +4 attemp my vesper duals and after that 2 pairs of Requirem dual swords event.
You think that im so unlucky???
I DONT THINK SO!!!
Its just that our game developers want to play with our wallets once more. If this is true im really angry about it, cause something is smelling weird around here!!!
Because now guess what!!! You can get your lucky enchantment stone right from their store with your sweet euros.
But dont be fooled your possibilities will improve to 75% cause im sure that now are close to 60 or 65% to success. It seems to me that they have minimized the success rate on over enchanting and then they send you to the shop to buy a stone that will give you back the previous possibilities we had before luckystone appears.
Im really waiting for a Community Manager to answer me on this issue, cause i have many examples of in game friends, that have failed even with lucky stone on +4.
If this is another trick to get our money thank you, but i wont buy!!!
If you think that all your customers are no life brainless zombies sorry but im not.
Thank you for your concern.
Welcome to L2's RNG. Boarding pass please.
I routinely +7 my stuff, got my first weapon to +7 on the first try. So bad luck mate.
When you fail 3 attemps in a row where are the Maths???:rolleyes::eek:
The math is that 3.703703703703...% chance of failing 3 attempts in a row.
You have a 29.629629629629629...% chance of succeeding 3 attempts in a row.
I have also failed skill enchants (before god) with a 97% chance of succeeding on my very first try.
And failing 3+ times in a row is just the way the game was designed.. I have failed 7 times in a row going +4 before as well. This was back in Gracia.
funny thing is there is no exact math to it. its random CHANCE. u can calculate all u want but it means absolutely nothing when it comes to chance. even with 99.99999% u can still fail. or even fail multiple in a row.
@ OP: I feel sorry for you mate. You are just embarrassing yourself. Lot's of us have been there before and didn't actually complained. It's only Korean randomness. And then again, like many people already said, if you can't afford to fail on the OE thingy, don't do it.
@ OP: I feel sorry for you mate. You are just embarrassing yourself. Lot's of us have been there before and didn't actually complained. It's only Korean randomness. And then again, like many people already said, if you can't afford to fail on the OE thingy, don't do it.
From all of you posting here only Softy seem to have unterstood the point of my thread.
You have to examine more carefully the meaning of what you actually read and not just read and then reply just to get another ++++number on your post counting.
I didnt write this post as many here say, to cry about my failure. If this is what you understood go back to page 1 and read my first post again, more carefully this time.
I will not spend a single euro on this game anymore, not in a lifetime. No matter how much you spend, they will keep adding new weapons and items which you "must buy" from time to time to compete with others.
It's mere a fact they made this game a money sink and they will empty your wallets up to the point where Blade & soul releases. They will offer their awesome customer service there, make it a pay 2 play game yet have their ***** gold selling websites on the internet as well as if we don't know all those **** gold selling websites belong to the companies and best of all the cycle will just reach it's point again just like it did with Lineage, blade & soul will become free to play at a certain time and they will make it a money sink again.
This was my point at the first place : The new money draining tactic!
And obviously not some cryout bla bla bla for my fail.
For me the game has started a 10,000 feet free fall with no parachute.
And i feel really sad after all these years investing time, money and relationship efforts on something that someone suddendly decided to throw out of the sky... Sorry.
P.S.: I'm still looking for a Forum Administrator answer on this : On what percentance a lucky enchantment stone applies(adds) its +10% success rate?
Have a nice day.
Maybe I will have to wait forever for a reliable answer, from a Community Manager, on this question.
Thank you anyway.
From all of you posting here only Softy seem to have unterstood the point of my thread.
You have to examine more carefully the meaning of what you actually read and not just read and then reply just to get another ++++number on your post counting.
I didnt write this post as many here say, to cry about my failure. If this is what you understood go back to page 1 and read my first post again, more carefully this time.
Dude wth you've been smoking? You made your point and wild accusations based on 3 failed attemps in a row with bolded and red letters. It's either a QQ thread or you seriously lack basic common sense. ON 3 FRIKIN CASES?! You must be trolling.
Btw fyi those extra % stones were in game since freya or gracia if I remember correctly. It's not a new thing.
Seriously, there is no point on arguing on these subject.
1st, it's all a matter of luck, some have it, some don't
2nd, it's a matter of maths, and those numbers, even if they are the same as the NC gives us, we will never confirm anything. They may say the success rate is 99% and it might be just 1%
3rd, what are "we" gonna get with this thread? NC won't do a thing. Therefore, "we're" just wasting out time and keyboard.
If it is actually an "Empty your wallet" trick, we can't do ****. If it is just bad luck, we can't do ****, if it is another reason, guess what... we can't do ****.
Dude wth you've been smoking? You made your point and wild accusations based on 3 failed attemps in a row with bolded and red letters. It's either a QQ thread or you seriously lack basic common sense. ON 3 FRIKIN CASES?! You must be trolling.
Btw fyi those extra % stones were in game since freya or gracia if I remember correctly. It's not a new thing.
I cant believe how many hidden Ncsoft employs are posting to this forum. Are you one of them?:confused:
If I am a forum troll you must be a goblin!:rolleyes:
Oh! and keep your common sense and your cigarettes for your self, cause i don't smoke brother.:D
Have a nice day.
Im really disappointed and angry cause i have lately experienced a change on possibilities that you have to get a +4 weapon.
Since 2005 i have done more weapons +4/+7 than i have failed on.
What i have to say is this: after lucky enchantment stones have appeared to the game I M DEFINITELY SURE that something is going on.
Since then i have braked on +4 attemp my vesper duals and after that 2 pairs of Requirem dual swords event.
You think that im so unlucky???
I DONT THINK SO!!!
Its just that our game developers want to play with our wallets once more. If this is true im really angry about it, cause something is smelling weird around here!!!
Because now guess what!!! You can get your lucky enchantment stone right from their store with your sweet euros.
But dont be fooled your possibilities will improve to 75% cause im sure that now are close to 60 or 65% to success. It seems to me that they have minimized the success rate on over enchanting and then they send you to the shop to buy a stone that will give you back the previous possibilities we had before luckystone appears.
Im really waiting for a Community Manager to answer me on this issue, cause i have many examples of in game friends, that have failed even with lucky stone on +4.
If this is another trick to get our money thank you, but i wont buy!!!
If you think that all your customers are no life brainless zombies sorry but im not.
Well, i have a friend who made +6 R grade set, +4 weapon, with normal enchants, broked 1-2 items on+4 but nothing special, so my opinion, you are just unlucky dude .. try some more.
P.S. Who the hell is stuped enuff to OE his weapon/armor w/o any backup ?
I see just QQmoar. Yesterday made dual apo dagger +5, 2 days ago it was made +4, doing it by basic enchants, and event from mentoring. And i OE coz clan mate said "no ballz" . Im not ncCoiner. So qqmoar. Change thread topic "IM QQ coz have bad luck" ;)
ps. i have just 1 apo dagger it wasnt 100items oe try so?? blame blame blame moar
I see just QQmoar. Yesterday made dual apo dagger +5, 2 days ago it was made +4, doing it by basic enchants, and event from mentoring. And i OE coz clan mate said "no ballz" . Im not ncCoiner. So qqmoar. Change thread topic "IM QQ coz have bad luck" ;)
ps. i have just 1 apo dagger it wasnt 100items oe try so?? blame blame blame moar
Brother grats on your OE on your duals!!!
PS: Thank you for your QQ reply. You are just another one that didn't actually read my post.
I read it carefully, but u dont get sens of all. It just luck mate, have it or have not. Why u blame ppl/ncsoft for itemst to incressing enchant rate?? U have this also from mentee coins right?? Have no money for this kind of stuff?? Anyway this thread looks like cry thread. U wrote that it is impossible, but my example, and many others show that it isnt impossible to OE. Ncsoft must make money after turning to FtP, so they r earning money. Mby coz of u they stop it lol
Every1 know that enchanting items is another way to get $$. NC will not tell you what is real enchant rate. They need to force you to buy the item from their shop or die from a donator.
That was on private servers (people running with +16 r grade) and that is here as well.
Have a common sense. How many players play on 1 server and how many players have +15 weapon? From 3k players maybe 50 players have +15. This is not 2/3 enchant rate.
Actually, for what I remember, 2/3 (or 60%) comes in at +4. As you get higher with +++, the chances get lower and lower. I think +15 has a ridiculous success rate (like 3-5%), to say the least.
So those 50 players over 3k might be an odd % of succesfull OEs. Especially if you think of how many players can actually afford to risk a R grade weapon blowing in their hands. VERY few, to me (at least among the legits).
Or how many would actually want to risk to blow a R grade weapon because of a minor patk/matk improvement...? Talking about +4. Let's not mention a +15 success rate!!!
Any player risking to blow a R weapon has a lot of adena to waste, or a lot of real money to waste, or loves the risk and doesnt mind the possible loss. Or all of them together.
Actually, for what I remember, 2/3 (or 60%) comes in at +4. As you get higher with +++, the chances get lower and lower. I think +15 has a ridiculous success rate (like 3-5%), to say the least.
No, it's 2/3 but at each point of the enchant, so chance of getting +14 => +15 is the same that getting +3=> +4, but getting +3=> +15 is, ofc, less less less more chance .
There's no conspiracy. There never was. L2 labs? Seriously? I don't believe that ncsoft ever said what the probability ever was. All this is assumption. Whatever math anyone is doing is again. Just an assumption. With no definite numbers, no point of reference, it's all conjecture.
Who knows what the variables are? Only ncsoft knows. Maybe it's not just a straight statistical line. Maybe there's variables, like certain points of the day, time, month, wearing one majestic ring while dancing at 12.31am server time on the 17th of June.
Suffice to say nobody knows.
Hasn't the percentages been changed? Maybe. Easier or harder is hard say with no point of reference.
Seriously this has been debated to death. I'm surprised it's brought up again. Oh wait...incoming noobs from private servers..
When the server files were leaked, some of the stats were leaked as well, that's why we have drop probability tables. Ncsoft guards these stats quite well, because it's part of the game. They probably change it around often to keep the tables incorrect. One of the reasons why they banned that mod program back in the day.
Every1 know that enchanting items is another way to get $$. NC will not tell you what is real enchant rate. They need to force you to buy the item from their shop or die from a donator.
That was on private servers (people running with +16 r grade) and that is here as well.
You don;t need NCsoft to tell a chance, you can easily obtain it by your self and other players experiences.
You don;t need NCsoft to tell a chance, you can easily obtain it by your self and other players experiences.
You can t obtain +15 easily.
I know a game where people could buy packs which contain cool wings, mounts etc. with less than 5% probability and people spend a lot of rl money. It's stupidness.
I'm wating for a better mmo like tera online.
Assuming nothing has changed in GoD, the chance remains at 66.6% for each enchant, starting at +3->+4. Yes, even +15->+16 is 66.6%. However, to calculate the TOTAL chance of going from +3->+16, you need to multiply each step.
So:
- from +3 to +4 is 66.6%.
- from +3 to +5 is 66.6% * 66.6%, or 43.6%.
- from +3 to +6 is 66.6% * 66.6% * 66.6%, or 29%.
AND SO ON
- from +3 to +16 calculates to 0.51%, or 1 in 197 chance.
This DOES NOT mean that it will take you 197 swords to make one +16. It could happen on your first attempt, it could take 10,000. But, ON AVERAGE, it takes about 197 weapons to make one +16. It will take far more than 197 scrolls of course.
The math is different for destruction scrolls. You will of course need only one weapon, and the max to reach is +15.
With destruction scrolls, assuming you start using them at +3 -> +4, it will take about 18 scrolls to reach +15. Again, it could take as little as 12 or many more than 18, but on average will take about 18.
*EDIT* For lolz and great justice, I wrote a simple simulator to estimate the number of enchant scrolls needed, if you start with one weapon and use normal scrolls up to +3, then blessed scrolls up to +16. On average, you need about 860 normal scrolls and about 570 blessed scrolls. Yes, you need more normal scrolls than blessed scrolls - the failure of any take you back to +0. Those destruction scrolls are starting to look mighty nice indeed.
Assuming nothing has changed in GoD, the chance remains at 66.6% for each enchant, starting at +3->+4. Yes, even +15->+16 is 66.6%. However, to calculate the TOTAL chance of going from +3->+16, you need to multiply each step.
So:
- from +3 to +4 is 66.6%.
- from +3 to +5 is 66.6% * 66.6%, or 43.6%.
- from +3 to +6 is 66.6% * 66.6% * 66.6%, or 29%.
AND SO ON
- from +3 to +16 calculates to 0.51%, or 1 in 197 chance.
This DOES NOT mean that it will take you 197 swords to make one +16. It could happen on your first attempt, it could take 10,000. But, ON AVERAGE, it takes about 197 weapons to make one +16. It will take far more than 197 scrolls of course.
The math is different for destruction scrolls. You will of course need only one weapon, and the max to reach is +15.
With destruction scrolls, assuming you start using them at +3 -> +4, it will take about 18 scrolls to reach +15. Again, it could take as little as 12 or many more than 18, but on average will take about 18.
*EDIT* For lolz and great justice, I wrote a simple simulator to estimate the number of enchant scrolls needed, if you start with one weapon and use normal scrolls up to +3, then blessed scrolls up to +16. On average, you need about 860 normal scrolls and about 570 blessed scrolls. Yes, you need more normal scrolls than blessed scrolls - the failure of any take you back to +0. Those destruction scrolls are starting to look mighty nice indeed.
Hence why i'm super ****** that 21 boots later and i didn't get 1 +6, whilst some other ****** has probably done the whole set on the first attempt
so im very lucky, doing my dual apo +6 by standard enchant lol... or w8, soon thread maker will call me ncsoft emp or donator lol :D lol thread
+6 is nothing, so pls don t be so exited.
As NCsoft had their official files leaded quite few times some people did some digging and found exact probabilities. I'm not 100% sure about armor probabilities but I know that with each enchant you put chance to put next one gets lower and lower. It doesn't stay the same as with weapons.
Assuming nothing has changed in GoD, the chance remains at 66.6% for each enchant, starting at +3->+4. Yes, even +15->+16 is 66.6%. However, to calculate the TOTAL chance of going from +3->+16, you need to multiply each step.
So:
- from +3 to +4 is 66.6%.
- from +3 to +5 is 66.6% * 66.6%, or 43.6%.
- from +3 to +6 is 66.6% * 66.6% * 66.6%, or 29%.
AND SO ON
- from +3 to +16 calculates to 0.51%, or 1 in 197 chance.
This DOES NOT mean that it will take you 197 swords to make one +16. It could happen on your first attempt, it could take 10,000. But, ON AVERAGE, it takes about 197 weapons to make one +16. It will take far more than 197 scrolls of course.
The math is different for destruction scrolls. You will of course need only one weapon, and the max to reach is +15.
With destruction scrolls, assuming you start using them at +3 -> +4, it will take about 18 scrolls to reach +15. Again, it could take as little as 12 or many more than 18, but on average will take about 18.
*EDIT* For lolz and great justice, I wrote a simple simulator to estimate the number of enchant scrolls needed, if you start with one weapon and use normal scrolls up to +3, then blessed scrolls up to +16. On average, you need about 860 normal scrolls and about 570 blessed scrolls. Yes, you need more normal scrolls than blessed scrolls - the failure of any take you back to +0. Those destruction scrolls are starting to look mighty nice indeed.
Link me the page from ncsoft that mentioned its a 2/3 chance on an enchant. Cause I'm quite sure it was never confirmed or mentioned officially. Otherwise all this math is wrong.
Link me the page from ncsoft that mentioned its a 2/3 chance on an enchant. Cause I'm quite sure it was never confirmed or mentioned officially. Otherwise all this math is wrong.
It used to be listed in the enchant scroll descriptions.
If you feel bad for breaking a few pixels, at +4, imagine how you'd feel to lose a 400€ pot on Hold'em NL, with only 1 card left to come ( the river ), and I had 96% chance of winning ;)
Im really disappointed and angry cause i have lately experienced a change on possibilities that you have to get a +4 weapon.
Since 2005 i have done more weapons +4/+7 than i have failed on.
What i have to say is this: after lucky enchantment stones have appeared to the game I M DEFINITELY SURE that something is going on.
Since then i have braked on +4 attemp my vesper duals and after that 2 pairs of Requirem dual swords event.
You think that im so unlucky???
I DONT THINK SO!!!
Its just that our game developers want to play with our wallets once more. If this is true im really angry about it, cause something is smelling weird around here!!!
Because now guess what!!! You can get your lucky enchantment stone right from their store with your sweet euros.
But dont be fooled your possibilities will improve to 75% cause im sure that now are close to 60 or 65% to success. It seems to me that they have minimized the success rate on over enchanting and then they send you to the shop to buy a stone that will give you back the previous possibilities we had before luckystone appears.
Im really waiting for a Community Manager to answer me on this issue, cause i have many examples of in game friends, that have failed even with lucky stone on +4.
If this is another trick to get our money thank you, but i wont buy!!!
If you think that all your customers are no life brainless zombies sorry but im not.
Thank you for your concern.
+1
and unbind scrolls-campaigne dont work and we have less chances to get an item blessed or normal when we double click an nonident. item-they are all bound
I believe it also used to say it on the loading screen after you choose a character (the tips section).
It also used to takes months and years to get to 75. Again it's an assumption. Unless there's an official word on enchanting, everybody is arguing with no or outdated facts.
It also used to takes months and years to get to 75. Again it's an assumption. Unless there's an official word on enchanting, everybody is arguing with no or outdated facts.
No patch has ever mentioned a change to enchant chances, so it's likely that it is still 66% as once stated.
I don't know why NCsoft keeps this a secret... it makes no sense. Just tell people the chance of success when ready to OE. What's the harm?